Grassroots Football

[The Dunster]

Nah, if you think Messi is 'one footed' then i dont know what to tell you.
yes, he has one foot stronger than the other, but im talking about kids getting 1 on 1 with the keeper then stopping so they can run around the ball to get it on their good side rather than have the confidence and ability to hit it with their weaker foot in one motion.
once they get to any decent level they wont have this extra time to re-adjust. Defenders will not allow it.

again, the coaches are coached to get the players to be able to make the best decision, and utilise their best skill set.
some coaches just wanna get that win over the other mob.

With Respect to the kids - That's not a footedness issue. That's a kid who's not good enough on the ball - big difference.
Messi was last on my list - probably should have left him off with 70 odd goals.

[The Dunster]

yeah this is a very good point.
there are def some parents out there who trialled their kid at multiple 'better' teams in year 2 vs where they were in year 1.
i found this interesting as the kid may not get a better footballing education, but they will prob win more games.
sometimes it might be better to stand out in a lesser team than be one of the squad in a good team.

Agree with this times 1000 - and have seen it first hand.

Have also seen a B team at a club with less talented players do better against best opposition in the state possibly country than the A team because the coaches developed a system to suit the players not jam square pegs into round holes.

[Retired01]

yeah this is a very good point.
there are def some parents out there who trialled their kid at multiple 'better' teams in year 2 vs where they were in year 1.
i found this interesting as the kid may not get a better footballing education, but they will prob win more games.
sometimes it might be better to stand out in a lesser team than be one of the squad in a good team.

There are 2 sides to this though.
As a parent you want the best for your child. Being part of a better team will challenge them. Other side is leaving a team together to build and gradually play better together. But this does take time and very good coaching.

There are so many ideas and its being demonstrated next season
Some teams kept their squad
Some gutted theirs
Others took on multiple players to move further ahead.

I have my opinion but don't feel its warranted to voice it and put clubs down or talk them up.

I do agree though with the 2 footed theory. If there are coaches doing that in games for the sake of the child and not winning. Good on them to support the boy for the future.

[plague]

There are 2 sides to this though.
As a parent you want the best for your child. Being part of a better team will challenge them. Other side is leaving a team together to build and gradually play better together. But this does take time and very good coaching.

There are so many ideas and its being demonstrated next season
Some teams kept their squad
Some gutted theirs
Others took on multiple players to move further ahead.

I have my opinion but don't feel its warranted to voice it and put clubs down or talk them up.

I do agree though with the 2 footed theory. If there are coaches doing that in games for the sake of the child and not winning. Good on them to support the boy for the future.

Oh for sure I understand both sides of the argument. If my kid wanted to move for whatever reason I'd never say no up front.

Regardless, if they do any good (or bad) their situation will prob change without them having a say anyway.
Happy for parents and kids to game the system in just the same way some coaches and teams do anyway.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KF6tRXpw00

[Bremsstrahlung]

The most interesting this is, you don’t know when you get development right.
What we are seeing now won’t take full effect for another 5-10 years, by which point things will have probably changed.

[plague]

The most interesting this is, you don’t know when you get development right.
What we are seeing now won’t take full effect for another 5-10 years, by which point things will have probably changed.

for sure.

but whatever 'we' did back in the glory days leading up to '05, it certainly changed since.
now its changing again. so lets hope it works.

[Dontknowmuch]

Oh for sure I understand both sides of the argument. If my kid wanted to move for whatever reason I'd never say no up front.

Regardless, if they do any good (or bad) their situation will prob change without them having a say anyway.
Happy for parents and kids to game the system in just the same way some coaches and teams do anyway.

Just Interested to know what parents are paying for rego mainly for SAP if anyone out there knows and do you think their development is worth the money?

[Hunter403]

Just Interested to know what parents are paying for rego mainly for SAP if anyone out there knows and do you think their development is worth the money?

Could be (and probably am) wrong, but I thought SAP fees were supposed to be regulated or damn near so.

If they aren't, they should be.

[plague]

Just Interested to know what parents are paying for rego mainly for SAP if anyone out there knows and do you think their development is worth the money?

Absolutely.
Plague jnr is lucky though in that his club is right behind the SAP program. They demanded a lot from the kids, but they all responded well.
Lucky he qualified again and we are more than happy to pay for him to continue.

[The Dunster]

Absolutely.
Plague jnr is lucky though in that his club is right behind the SAP program. They demanded a lot from the kids, but they all responded well.
Lucky he qualified again and we are more than happy to pay for him to continue.

Have you bought the Prius yet Plague or did you go for a Tarago ? I fear we are losing you can we organise an intervention to save our valued Forumite please peoples.

[Dontknowmuch]

Absolutely.
Plague jnr is lucky though in that his club is right behind the SAP program. They demanded a lot from the kids, but they all responded well.
Lucky he qualified again and we are more than happy to pay for him to continue.


How much?

A 9 or 10 year old in a community team would pay probably $250 average. Bit concerned as to what SAP rego would be when you here some are going to gyms and some are paying coaches.

All this when our countries newest Senior player never set foot into the country until he was 25 and now looks like our brightest prospect and possiby our only hope of having a regular goal scorer in our countries top team now that Cahill has retired.
Say's alot for our development system and all the money parents pay to give their kids the best opportunity.

[plague]

How much?

A 9 or 10 year old in a community team would pay probably $250 average. Bit concerned as to what SAP rego would be when you here some are going to gyms and some are paying coaches.

All this when our countries newest Senior player never set foot into the country until he was 25 and now looks like our brightest prospect and possiby our only hope of having a regular goal scorer in our countries top team now that Cahill has retired.
Say's alot for our development system and all the money parents pay to give their kids the best opportunity.

last year was about $700, this year its gone up but not exactly sure.
the club explained all the fees, and the kit component was about $250 lf that amount. (the kids got a lot of kit).
so we justified it as about double the price of Mini-roos, but with twice as many games every week, for a way longer season (so actually about 36 x 40 minn games per season), with twice as much training, and with coaches who are dedicated to teaching the kids as per the curriculum set out (im pretty sure our club pays coaches but they deserve it IMHO). Plus he was playing a 2nd winter sport last year (which costs money) so by giving that up it saved money (and time).

Plague Jr plays futsal with some same age kids who dont do SAP, the gap in talent now compared to last year is noticeable. Look, some kids dont need SAP, as they can get the same skills from mum or dad in the backyard, or some private coaching. its not the only way to improve a kid, but it works for Plague Jr, hes dedicated to it so we'll continue.

again, totally agree with your point about developing players. all ill say is that this 'new' program is designed to address the flaws in the old system. as someone already noted, we wont find out for about 10 years or so.

[plague]

Have you bought the Prius yet Plague or did you go for a Tarago ? I fear we are losing you can we organise an intervention to save our valued Forumite please peoples.

i read your post whilst wearing my MAGA hat and burning a lump of coal in my front yard just for the sake of it.

dont stress mate, im still here.

[dan]

Plague beat me to it, but yeah the kids play 40 40min games with 2 bye weekends and train twice a week during the 30week program. And have trial matches in their preseason which has been going for a few weeks already. Wallsend has rego at $495 for returning players and at $650 for new players (includes kit).
For those who come to training, games, listen and apply what they've learnt both in the programs hours and in their own time then yes you do see improvements in their skills and gameplay. It's early days with the program but i'm happy with it so far. it could definitely do with a lot more promoting

[The Dunster]

i read your post whilst wearing my MAGA hat and burning a lump of coal in my front yard just for the sake of it.

dont stress mate, im still here.

Good news indeed.

[Goatscheese]

Over $700 for a 9yo to play soccer, and not all parents will or can even afford that. No wonder the potential for talent that could come through will continue to be restricted to the children of well-off parents. And with the bigger gap in talent we are leaving the next potential Cahill's Jadink's all because we need to gouge parents out of money. Australia had its golden run of international football we won't be there again when we start excluding so many players.

[The Dunster]

Australia used to produce the best tennis players in the world - then junior tennis became a business, talented kids were priced out of the game and it's been farked ever since.
Football has adopted a similar model and will unfortunately get similar results in that the ones that do find success more often than not will have taken an alternative path - provided they can afford it.

Parents are being conned and they don't see it.

We used to segregate sport by race now we do it by incomes.

[plague]

Didnt Bradman hit a marble with a chopstick up against a concrete pineapple or something?

More than one way to skin a cat yanno.

[MFKS]

Australia used to produce the best tennis players in the world - then junior tennis became a business, talented kids were priced out of the game and it's been farked ever since.
Football has adopted a similar model and will unfortunately get similar results in that the ones that do find success more often than not will have taken an alternative path - provided they can afford it.

Parents are being conned and they don't see it.

We used to segregate sport by race now we do it by incomes.

But that is the problem with sport where people are using the sport to create jobs for themselves

Look at how many people now are earning money from being employed football in Australia??

Besides the handful of professional players and coaches at the 10 HAL clubs we have tens of thousands of others with their hand in the cookie jar whether getting payment for coaching at varioys age groups and levels or playing at what is amatuer level in the NPL and below

The worst part about all this is that FFA through their inaction have allowed this to occur and been complicit in it

[Negative Police]

Agree with this times 1000 - and have seen it first hand.

Have also seen a B team at a club with less talented players do better against best opposition in the state possibly country than the A team because the coaches developed a system to suit the players not jam square pegs into round holes.
So players maybe in positions for the long haul?



So as a coach. Can you tell me why so many clubs, including my son's didn't rotate positions when the overview provided by NNSW was that all kids would rotate to learn positions? I'm assuming you were a SAP coach
Was this just NNSW not having the commitment to enforce their policy as clubs just ignored it?
I'm being mindful that most of us needed to stay in position to compete with some clubs too. But others just did it to drive teams into the dust.
I was surprised to hear that some clubs are not rotating this year either which is different to what I read in development notes. Of course they move a little but not all around the 3-3 (u9's) formation if they're using that.


Plague beat me to it, but yeah the kids play 40 40min games with 2 bye weekends and train twice a week during the 30week program. And have trial matches in their preseason which has been going for a few weeks already. Wallsend has rego at $495 for returning players and at $650 for new players (includes kit).
For those who come to training, games, listen and apply what they've learnt both in the programs hours and in their own time then yes you do see improvements in their skills and gameplay. It's early days with the program but i'm happy with it so far. it could definitely do with a lot more promoting
Think I'd rather take a familiar set of players to a cheaper club next year like Wallsend if it doesnt really work out this year. Get a similar skill set, training and get used to coming up against tough opposition every week. Ego is a curse at this age.

[plague]

Any of you blokes want to point to me the sport where good coaches are free and facilities are there for everyone to enjoy?

[MFKS]

Any of you blokes want to point to me the sport where good coaches are free and facilities are there for everyone to enjoy?

Football in countries other than Australia and USA

Plenty of footballers on the planet who were coached by volunteers as kids without facilities havibg to be world class etc

That the problem here

People lower down on the tree with their hand out in expectation

[Bremsstrahlung]

Football in countries other than Australia and USA

Plenty of footballers on the planet who were coached by volunteers as kids without facilities havibg to be world class etc

That the problem here

People lower down on the tree with their hand out in expectation


I ain’t going to work today for free. Are you?

[Retired01]

Sorry I don't know how to paste all the quotes to respond to.

As a parent what else can you do about the fees? You certainly aren't just not going to play.

If there is a plan as to how the kids should be coached why isn't it enforced? eg swapping positions, attending hubs.
In our everyday work life we have a plan and we follow it. If someone does their own thing its not tolerated. Its obviously been developed by someone a bit more qualified than these guys.

[The Dunster]

I ain’t going to work today for free. Are you?

Problem is in any form of capitalist production we don't care about what we produce only how much money we make from it. Quality doesn't even enter the equation.
Apple is worth over $800 Billion dollars and we'd be kidding ourselves to say it's because they make quality products or even products that satisfy their customers.
Instead, they have created a market whereby people are more concerned about being part of the market / religion than they are actually receiving the best product for their money.
Junior football is doing exactly the same thing just on a smaller scale.
You can see it here in the responses from parents whereby they are swallowing the hype hook line and sinker.
By the time parents realise the system has failed the kids have either grown up or moved on to another sport or pastime.
Don't get me wrong for some kids this system is great [and that included\s kids that won't be future stars] but for the majority it's a massive con.

If it makes the kids happy it's a success. If it falsely makes the kids think they are going to be future stars then it's not.

[plague]

Football in countries other than Australia and USA

Plenty of footballers on the planet who were coached by volunteers as kids without facilities havibg to be world class etc


Ummmm, you do realise there are plenty of wide open spaces out there for you (or any parent) to take little Johnny for a kick and to pass on all your knowledge.

Again, blokes on here making out spending lots of money on coaching is compulsory.

Plenty of examples even at HAL level of blokes coming through without having gone through these programs.

Maybe get off your own asses and teach the kids?

[Hunter403]

I can tell you that as someone that was involved in applying for a SAP licence prior to last season and as a club committee member, the cost to play football just keeps going up. the clubs make very little if anything, off player fees. The original plan was for SAP coaches to be paid about $1500 a season (I think but my memory is sometimes not fully functioning and this amount was mandated by NNSW at the time).
Costs to consider, particularly for NPL, NEWFM and SAP:
Rego
Insurance
Ground use
Lighting
Referees
Physio

The club I was involved in was considered the premium tenant during football season but as the season now runs for the best part of 10 months with trials and pre season, the clubs in Lake Mac pay a higher rate to use them during cricket season.
Lighting and electricity are far from cheap
Physio can range up to $50 per game for a physio to be there each weekend. Some clubs have a physio available for training ($$)
Rego cost: set at a higher level than the club
For SAP: the cost if using the Lake Macquarie facility

Folks, it adds up fast.

In the first year of SAP, our club figured out that the minimum cost, without the club making a single cent would be close to $700 (including clothing).

If you consider a kid in NEWFM or NPL plays 22 games during the season and let's assume a cost of $1,000 then the cost per game s about $45. That $45 includes 2 training sessions per week during the season plus 6 to 10 weeks of pre-season, a number of trial games and finals (if you are good enough) then the real cost is somewhat less than $45 per game. I don't have kids in music lessons or some other external to school activities so I don't know how much they cost but I'd bet you wouldn't get much more than a 30 minute lesson for $45.

Is it too expensive for football? Yep. How do we get the price down? Don't know. If Council charge less for grounds then they will get worse. If we pay referees less then we might lose referees or fail to attract new ones. Keep power bills down by training during daylight? Not enough grounds for that.

I don;t know the answer, but it would really help if ALL clubs itemised their costs for their players so everyone understands where every cent goes.

[sammydog]

I don;t know the answer, but it would really help if ALL clubs itemised their costs for their players so everyone understands where every cent goes.

Id love it if ALL clubs were afforded the opportunity to apply for a SAP licence.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvzrOMuPsj8

SAP motivational video.

[MFKS]

I ain’t going to work today for free. Are you?

But that is what kills the game in this country

Sense of self entitlement

Every ****er who gets involved in the game wants to put their hand out to get paid for it

Whether that be shit **** players running around in New FM or NBN or the coaches etc

They all arent doing it for thge love of the game

There is a sense of entitlement that they should be compensated for their time

At the professional level yes

HAL players and coaches should be paid

But below that no way in gods green earth should they be getting paid a cent


Football coaching outside of pro level isnt apart getting paid

It is about imparting skills and knowledge on people

Blokes at Barca in the Yoof set up get paid **** all to hone and develop the likes of Messi Iniesta and co
And know that these blokes have made it to millionaire status they aint getting paid a bonus either

FFA are also just as culpable in this problem as they view coaching education as a money making activity first and foremost

[MFKS]

Ummmm, you do realise there are plenty of wide open spaces out there for you (or any parent) to take little Johnny for a kick and to pass on all your knowledge.

Again, blokes on here making out spending lots of money on coaching is compulsory.

Plenty of examples even at HAL level of blokes coming through without having gone through these programs.

Maybe get off your own asses and teach the kids?

But is my knowledge of the game adequate??

(That is a rhetorical question by the way 5 5 5 )

It is where we are going wrong in that the dads of Oz teaching these kids the game are in a lot of ways poorly educated on the game in the 1st place

As for volunteers I meant that crusty old guys out there around the world coaching kids well because they have a deep love for the game not because they want fame and glory

Same guys who worked with the likes of Neymar Messi Iniesta developing their game when they were young before any pro club ever got interested in them

It is these guys who give us great players

[plague]

But that is what kills the game in this country

Sense of self entitlement

Every ****er who gets involved in the game wants to put their hand out to get paid for it

Whether that be shit **** players running around in New FM or NBN or the coaches etc

They all arent doing it for thge love of the game

There is a sense of entitlement that they should be compensated for their time

At the professional level yes

HAL players and coaches should be paid

But below that no way in gods green earth should they be getting paid a cent


Football coaching outside of pro level isnt apart getting paid

It is about imparting skills and knowledge on people

Blokes at Barca in the Yoof set up get paid **** all to hone and develop the likes of Messi Iniesta and co
And know that these blokes have made it to millionaire status they aint getting paid a bonus either

FFA are also just as culpable in this problem as they view coaching education as a money making activity first and foremost

Yeah of course by the way let's stop paying doctors, ambos and life guards.
I mean, saving someone's life should be reward enough yeah?

[ForeverBlack]

But that is what kills the game in this country

Sense of self entitlement

Every ****er who gets involved in the game wants to put their hand out to get paid for it

Whether that be shit **** players running around in New FM or NBN or the coaches etc

They all arent doing it for thge love of the game

There is a sense of entitlement that they should be compensated for their time

At the professional level yes

HAL players and coaches should be paid

But below that no way in gods green earth should they be getting paid a cent


Football coaching outside of pro level isnt apart getting paid

It is about imparting skills and knowledge on people

Blokes at Barca in the Yoof set up get paid **** all to hone and develop the likes of Messi Iniesta and co
And know that these blokes have made it to millionaire status they aint getting paid a bonus either

FFA are also just as culpable in this problem as they view coaching education as a money making activity first and foremost
You are so FULL OF SHIT JARRYD.
Are you really going to come on here and try and say that the coaches in the Barcelona youth set up are getting paid **** all. Your knowledge of the workings at club's around the world truly has no equal.

[MFKS]

You are so FULL OF SHIT JARRYD.
Are you really going to come on here and try and say that the coaches in the Barcelona youth set up are getting paid **** all. Your knowledge of the workings at club's around the world truly has no equal.

Go do some research before running your mouth

The coached in Barcas youth set up get paid **** all

This is a reality they spend their time holding down jobs around coaching the Barca philosophy to kids in their spare time for a pittance

[MFKS]

Yeah of course by the way let's stop paying doctors, ambos and life guards.
I mean, saving someone's life should be reward enough yeah?

And if we want to have a ****ed up football set up in Oz lets keep doing what we are doing

Because it obvioysly is going well this method isnt it??

[ForeverBlack]

Go do some research before running your mouth

The coached in Barcas youth set up get paid **** all

This is a reality they spend their time holding down jobs around coaching the Barca philosophy to kids in their spare time for a pittance

Fancy you accusing someone of running their mouth off.
POT. KETTLE. BLACK.
I would be more than happy to see your stats on the pittance that these Barca youth academy coaches get paid. I am sure YOU would have researched it before running your mouth off.
I would gladly retract my words if you could put up a link or a screenshot of where you saw the salaries that these coaches get paid.

[Goatscheese]

I do know that in the UK the professional clubs run free coaching clinics, and send their people and lower coaches into poor areas, because they know that this is where talent is as well. Kids not being able to spend a lot but being able to play the game. They get picked up by these clubs and put into the clubs academies, they also aren't charged high fees, same goes for those talented players from wealthy kids. Of course we are inhibiting that talent by ignoring the poorer kids and ensuring high fees for those that can afford it. As a result we decrease the size of the potential talent pool and thus decrease the number of quality players. Why is that a country with a population less than Sydney can consistently make it past World Cup group stages while we just struggle to qualify? One of the reasons is a lower potential talent pool that is being shrunk because of the high and ever increasing costs.

Also it's BS that all clubs must pay their SAP coaches $1,500 as mandated by NNSWF.

[ForeverBlack]

I do know that in the UK the professional clubs run free coaching clinics, and send their people and lower coaches into poor areas, because they know that this is where talent is as well. Kids not being able to spend a lot but being able to play the game. They get picked up by these clubs and put into the clubs academies, they also aren't charged high fees, same goes for those talented players from wealthy kids. Of course we are inhibiting that talent by ignoring the poorer kids and ensuring high fees for those that can afford it. As a result we decrease the size of the potential talent pool and thus decrease the number of quality players. Why is that a country with a population less than Sydney can consistently make it past World Cup group stages while we just struggle to qualify? One of the reasons is a lower potential talent pool that is being shrunk because of the high and ever increasing costs.

Also it's BS that all clubs must pay their SAP coaches $1,500 as mandated by NNSWF.

Agree with all of the Goatscheese. Nnsw make that much money that these elite teams and programs i.e Jets youth, should be free . Pick the best 20 kids in each age group in the squad , regardless of who or how rich mum and dad are.
That way our best kids don't miss out because they can't afford it

[MFKS]

Fancy you accusing someone of running their mouth off.
POT. KETTLE. BLACK.
I would be more than happy to see your stats on the pittance that these Barca youth academy coaches get paid. I am sure YOU would have researched it before running your mouth off.
I would gladly retract my words if you could put up a link or a screenshot of where you saw the salaries that these coaches get paid.

As you said I like to run my mouth

Go on Prove me wrong

Barca pay their youth coaches a pittance is my statement

Prove me wrong then

[ForeverBlack]

As you said I like to run my mouth

Go on Prove me wrong

Barca pay their youth coaches a pittance is my statement

Prove me wrong then

You made the statement idiot, so back it up with facts. You told me to go and do research. I don't need to research it to prove that you are making the shit up.
Why don't you try backing up one of your many bullshit statements with some proof or figures.
I am very interested to see how you would know or would have seen what the Barcelona youth academy get paid to coach. This was your statement after all Jarryd, that they got paid **** all . How did you come up with this knowledge ?
Tell me where you got this information from so i to can see what kind of $$$ they make

[plague]

And if we want to have a ****ed up football set up in Oz lets keep doing what we are doing

Because it obvioysly is going well this method isnt it??

ummm, you realise the program we* are talking about is all of 12 months old right?
so one could assume we are no longer doing things 'the old way'.

Member, you're doing that thing again. Take a breath.











*and by 'we' i mean parents and club officials who are actually involved in the program not blokes who have no idea what they are talking about just flinging shit up against the wall like usual.

[plague]

Also it's BS that all clubs must pay their SAP coaches $1,500 as mandated by NNSWF.

so I'm assuming you have no real idea what these coaches go through in order to justify any sort of wage correct?
Because $1500 is nothing for what they do for these kids.

you may also want to look at it from the point of the coach. maybe they too want to reach the highest level, and are starting at the bottom. Yet you want to inhibit them by not paying them for their work.

so clear this up, all coaches are well off and can afford to do it for free, but all kids should get it for free because they cant afford it?

thats what youre saying right?

[Negative Police]

Why is that a country with a population less than Sydney can consistently make it past World Cup group stages while we just struggle to qualify? One of the reasons is a lower potential talent pool that is being shrunk because of the high and ever increasing costs.

Also it's BS that all clubs must pay their SAP coaches $1,500 as mandated by NNSWF.

Aus has a small talent pool to choose from because we have other higher profile sports taking players. Never assume we have 25 mill in the pool. More like 5 mill at best and we are punching above that weight. Btw what do Uruguay/iceland do to get top players.

SAP suggested the $1500 for coaches which is assuming that these new 1000's of coaches needed to all get their C licence lol. At which the ffa cant even agree on the best way to coach juniors as the course and content is changing again. Then an update is still needed every 4/5 yrs. I think they are trying to go too large too quick.

Oh and the coaches do so much for what they get. Ive heard they rego concession at most clubs.

[Goatscheese]

so I'm assuming you have no real idea what these coaches go through in order to justify any sort of wage correct?
Because $1500 is nothing for what they do for these kids.

you may also want to look at it from the point of the coach. maybe they too want to reach the highest level, and are starting at the bottom. Yet you want to inhibit them by not paying them for their work.

so clear this up, all coaches are well off and can afford to do it for free, but all kids should get it for free because they cant afford it?

thats what youre saying right?

Actually I know exactly what it is like for these sort of coaches and as a coach in other age groups/leagues.

Furthermore, you should read what I typed again because it has nothing to do with your post.

[Goatscheese]

Aus has a small talent pool to choose from because we have other higher profile sports taking players.

Indeed part of the reason being that soccer costs so much they go to other sports or are taken to other sports by their parents.

And indeed a suggestion not a mandate that they must.

[plague]

Actually I know exactly what it is like for these sort of coaches and as a coach in other age groups/leagues.


ok then, so why dont you tell us your own personal experience of what it takes to coach at this level. What sort of hours you put in, and what you (personally) give up in order to be a coach.
Because i can only assume your answer will be 'a lot'.
and thats cool.
all im saying is that the (relatively) small remuneration for all that effort may not be worth it for some.

again, im not arguing with any of the points put forward about finding kids who cant 'afford' to be in this system.
ive no problems with clubs doing 'more' to bring more good kids through.
all im asking is that for a code that is seemingly forever broke, where does this cash come from?
you have club officials on here saying that they aint making the money.
you have a governing body that pretty much cant afford to fund their own elite competition.

so where is it coming from?

[Goatscheese]

ok then, so why dont you tell us your own personal experience of what it takes to coach at this level. What sort of hours you put in, and what you (personally) give up in order to be a coach.
Because i can only assume your answer will be 'a lot'.
and thats cool.
all im saying is that the (relatively) small remuneration for all that effort may not be worth it for some.

again, im not arguing with any of the points put forward about finding kids who cant 'afford' to be in this system.
ive no problems with clubs doing 'more' to bring more good kids through.
all im asking is that for a code that is seemingly forever broke, where does this cash come from?
you have club officials on here saying that they aint making the money.
you have a governing body that pretty much cant afford to fund their own elite competition.

so where is it coming from?

I said it was BS that Northern mandated that clubs pay their coaches $1,500. Then you started going on about the justification, as though you have some experience. Now if I am wrong about the mandate prove it to me.

[plague]

I said it was BS that Northern mandated that clubs pay their coaches $1,500. Then you started going on about the justification, as though you have some experience. Now if I am wrong about the mandate prove it to me.

who said you were wrong about the mandate?
i dont care if its mandated or not.

but the larger point being discussed on here is that some people dont think the coaches should be paid at all.
some think coaches should be paid more.
im just out here trying to understand the points of view of people who dont think they deserve it.

[sammydog]

I’m actually ok with coaches being paid. But a question for all clubs players/parents, where should the payments stop;

- coaches
- club executive committee (president, treasurer, secretary, registrar)
- general committee
- technical director
- canteen manager
- grounds person

How do you differentwhich position gets paid and which doesn’t. We are already seeing players expecting payments and free rego well outside NPL and NL1 and if you add in paid positions in the club then it can only mean one thing for regos unless big cuts are made elsewhere.

It’s a question that needs to be answered. Why would you volunteer for a non paid position when there is a paid position.

[MFKS]

who said you were wrong about the mandate?
i dont care if its mandated or not.

but the larger point being discussed on here is that some people dont think the coaches should be paid at all.
some think coaches should be paid more.
im just out here trying to understand the points of view of people who dont think they deserve it.

You made a point a post or 2 back about the game being forever broke

On 1 hand it is accurate as neither the clubs or the governing bodies are rolling in cash

But on the other hand this is a billion$$ economy in Oz alone and there is actually heaps of money in the game and it is just not being used correctly

This is an issue that needs serious addressing from the FFA



As for your point about coaches being paid or shouldnt be paid I dont think that is the argument

If clubs can afford to pay coaches and players at levels below the HAL then I would rather the money was invested into removing the costs of coaching courses and what impedes people from doing them so more people are educated adequately and better than they currently are about the game to be able to teach more

Also your piint about the sacrifices made to coach and remuneration being worth it if that is effecting people taking up coaching then they shouldnt be in it to start with

It isnt about "them" to start with

[The Dunster]

You made a point a post or 2 back about the game being forever broke

On 1 hand it is accurate as neither the clubs or the governing bodies are rolling in cash

But on the other hand this is a billion$$ economy in Oz alone and there is actually heaps of money in the game and it is just not being used correctly

This is an issue that needs serious addressing from the FFA



As for your point about coaches being paid or shouldnt be paid I dont think that is the argument

If clubs can afford to pay coaches and players at levels below the HAL then I would rather the money was invested into removing the costs of coaching courses and what impedes people from doing them so more people are educated adequately and better than they currently are about the game to be able to teach more

Also your piint about the sacrifices made to coach and remuneration being worth it if that is effecting people taking up coaching then they shouldnt be in it to start with

It isnt about "them" to start with

Member making a lot of sense here.

[sammydog]

I would rather the money was invested into removing the costs of coaching courses and what impedes people from doing them so more people are educated adequately and better than they currently are about the game to be able to teach more

If the courses cost less, not only would more people do them, people possibly wouldn't see the need to try and recoup the costs of their education.

[plague]

You made a point a post or 2 back about the game being forever broke

On 1 hand it is accurate as neither the clubs or the governing bodies are rolling in cash

But on the other hand this is a billion$$ economy in Oz alone and there is actually heaps of money in the game and it is just not being used correctly

This is an issue that needs serious addressing from the FFA



As for your point about coaches being paid or shouldnt be paid I dont think that is the argument

If clubs can afford to pay coaches and players at levels below the HAL then I would rather the money was invested into removing the costs of coaching courses and what impedes people from doing them so more people are educated adequately and better than they currently are about the game to be able to teach more

Also your piint about the sacrifices made to coach and remuneration being worth it if that is effecting people taking up coaching then they shouldnt be in it to start with

It isnt about "them" to start with

Sorry, should have clarified that the governing body is forever broke.
Agree there is plenty of money flowing through the game.
As for the FFA 'addressing it', I'd suggest that taking a lot of the power away from the state feds in this latest shakeup may pave the way for more of that money to come to HQ that they can hopefully spend wisely.

As for it it not being about coaches.
So you're happy to do whatever it takes to find the next Iniesta or Griff, but you dont care that they'll be coached by Gypo Arnie and Couscous?

Why cant we find the next Pep or Klopp too?

[Negative Police]

An important point.

If you want kids to gain access to further rep teams then the ffa pathway is to draw from SAP teams specifically. EG The Richard Hartley NET skills Program used to send kids to State tournaments and do very well but since the introduction of the latest SAP the NET is not allowed to send teams.

SAP also calls for special age specific train on squads (u10, u11 that i know of) in order to get teams ready for a variety of rep games during the season. So this makes it harder for kids training with other highly skilled coaches maybe for a cheaper fee or parents to crack into rep teams.

[The Dunster]

An important point.

If you want kids to gain access to further rep teams then the ffa pathway is to draw from SAP teams specifically. EG The Richard Hartley NET skills Program used to send kids to State tournaments and do very well but since the introduction of the latest SAP the NET is not allowed to send teams.

SAP also calls for special age specific train on squads (u10, u11 that i know of) in order to get teams ready for a variety of rep games during the season. So this makes it harder for kids training with other highly skilled coaches maybe for a cheaper fee or parents to crack into rep teams.

Good post but none of this will matter to the parents who have their kids enrolled in these programs.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/z9mQoJU-6I0/maxresdefault.jpg

[Negative Police]

Why would I be pointing this out to people already in the scheme fgs.

It's for those who are thinking about going a different route. I wonder if NPL clubs will send most of these players into NPL teams 13's and up.

[plague]

An important point.

If you want kids to gain access to further rep teams then the ffa pathway is to draw from SAP teams specifically. EG The Richard Hartley NET skills Program used to send kids to State tournaments and do very well but since the introduction of the latest SAP the NET is not allowed to send teams.

SAP also calls for special age specific train on squads (u10, u11 that i know of) in order to get teams ready for a variety of rep games during the season. So this makes it harder for kids training with other highly skilled coaches maybe for a cheaper fee or parents to crack into rep teams.

yeah we were originally sold on the SAP program it was developed because there was a lot of self interest in junior development (no names were used).
NNSW was adamant that by taking back control of the junior development and putting it in the hands of clubs it was going to be better long term, especially due to the extended amount of numbers of kids that were going to be exposed to the extra coaching.

the clubs were all adamant the program is designed to feed the junior jets from age 12(?) onwards and everyone else will feed into the clubs NPL teams.
obviously NPL players will still be on the Jets radar so all is not lost if they dont make it at the early ages.

and of course kids will come from outside the program and still make NPL teams (and the Jets juniors). thats football.
it just cracks me up that a program has been developed with the well being of the National league team and the local NPL clubs as a priority yet people still just think its some sort of folly for 'rich' parents to send their snot nosed kids.

of course things were done better in the old days when 9 year olds walked 10 miles to training after working a shift down the mines.
i get it.

[plague]

An important point.

If you want kids to gain access to further rep teams then the ffa pathway is to draw from SAP teams specifically. EG The Richard Hartley NET skills Program used to send kids to State tournaments and do very well but since the introduction of the latest SAP the NET is not allowed to send teams.



does anyone on here have kids involved in these programs (Richard Hartley etc).
Does anyone have an idea of cost/facilites/amount of training.

i have no idea about the bloke but man oh man his name comes up A LOT in conversations about junior development.

would love some real feedback if anyone has it.

[The Dunster]

Why would I be pointing this out to people already in the scheme fgs.

It's for those who are thinking about going a different route. I wonder if NPL clubs will send most of these players into NPL teams 13's and up.

The parents in most cases are clueless about these scams - that's why they work.
Telling those who haven't signed up already that it's the only way for their kids to make it doesn't really solve anything either.
It just adds to the mass of lemmings lining up to go off the cliff.

[MFKS]

If the courses cost less, not only would more people do them, people possibly wouldn't see the need to try and recoup the costs of their education.

Why do they need to cost anything anyway??

The information in them is only going to educate the football community more and benefit football more in the long run


Exactly why is it being controlled and limited in its spreading by placing prohibitive costs on it??

Surely the goal should be to double triple quadruple etc the amount of qualified coaches in all the various categories??

[Negative Police]

does anyone on here have kids involved in these programs (Richard Hartley etc).
Does anyone have an idea of cost/facilites/amount of training.

i have no idea about the bloke but man oh man his name comes up A LOT in conversations about junior development.

would love some real feedback if anyone has it.
Ok...

RH in conjunction with Newcastle football set up the original Net system which is much like SAP now so as to get a lot more kids at a higher level. At the time there was a different SAP comp which comprised of Newcastle, Macquarie, Hunter and other further regional teams which left a lot of good local players with no other high skill path.

So around 8 to 10 local NPL/1 clubs formed and developed highly trained u10/u11/u12 comps playing each other during winter over 14 rounds, usually all at Wallarah oval Lambton.
These teams trained 2/3 nights a week and were/are considered elite as their results in State cup showed. It still runs now along side SAP. It is around 1/2 the cost of SAP but has less rounds.

I know 2 clubs who pick their Net teams who just missed out on SAP although that doesnt mean lesser players in real terms. The kicker is after the winter comp they then play a summer comp (usually with some different team setup) from Sep to Nov which is quite well priced.

Im sure there are greater details etc.

[plague]

I know 2 clubs who pick their Net teams who just missed out on SAP although that doesnt mean lesser players in real terms.



cheers for the feedback.

one club I know of are running 2 SAP teams and a NET team for u/10.
They moved some kids over from U/9 SAP to give them a different training method as the SAP model didnt 'seem' suited to them.
The club was very eager to make sure everyone knew that SAP wasnt 'better' than NET, it was just a different way of doing things.
From memory their NET price was about 30% cheaper than SAP, though i dont know for sure how many games etc they are scheduled to play.

[Negative Police]

The parents in most cases are clueless about these scams - that's why they work.
Telling those who haven't signed up already that it's the only way for their kids to make it doesn't really solve anything either.
It just adds to the mass of lemmings lining up to go off the cliff.

Scam?
The overall result of providing a wider platform of higher skilled juniors was a success last year.
Overpriced - I would say yes because some or many coaches are up-skilled parents but they do have a TD oversee training and philosophy etc.
Are most young players chosen for reps from SAP - Yes. Does this get all the best? A lot better chance than previously when having a big business dad got many kids in (who maybe also went to all the high cost $kills camp$?) Im not saying its the best way yet.

Didnt someone mention earlier that last years fees of $700 pp wasnt even a break even?
2019 fees for most clubs with 2 teams would be u9s $900 x 16 players = 14,400 then x2 for U10s = $29,000 thats a lot of $$

Could we do it for cheaper?
You'd hope so. Becuase if we had 2-4 extra community teams that use the same lights, grounds, balls, equipment and a coach would still be $250 per player or maybe 450 with kit.

[Negative Police]

cheers for the feedback.

one club I know of are running 2 SAP teams and a NET team for u/10.
They moved some kids over from U/9 SAP to give them a different training method as the SAP model didnt 'seem' suited to them.
The club was very eager to make sure everyone knew that SAP wasnt 'better' than NET, it was just a different way of doing things.
From memory their NET price was about 30% cheaper than SAP, though i dont know for sure how many games etc they are scheduled to play.

Yep. I asked what was the difference at a public meeting as I heard many whispers asking each other. They said the same. Less games for NET.

Keeps more kids at the club and trials will happen again next year.

[Gary]

Northerns SAP rego fees are $367.50 per kid straight off the bat.
Then clubs incorporate kits, their own council fees for the one night they train at their local ground etc & you can see how it adds up quite quickly.

[Retired01]

Scam?
The overall result of providing a wider platform of higher skilled juniors was a success last year.
Overpriced - I would say yes because some or many coaches are up-skilled parents but they do have a TD oversee training and philosophy etc.
Are most young players chosen for reps from SAP - Yes. Does this get all the best? A lot better chance than previously when having a big business dad got many kids in (who maybe also went to all the high cost $kills camp$?) Im not saying its the best way yet.


I agree with this statement as mentioned earlier the SAP program worked last year and weaker teams got better as the season went forward. These teams had a lot of room for improvement and it showed. The stronger teams were winning by less margin so I guess those coaches and TDs need to work out where to next. focus on tactics and structure closer to get those little improvements.
It will be interesting to see if the TSP is genuine in a few weeks or a smooth over to select kids from all clubs and make mum and dads believe their boy is heading to the A league.

[The Dunster]

Scam?
The overall result of providing a wider platform of higher skilled juniors was a success last year.
Overpriced - I would say yes because some or many coaches are up-skilled parents but they do have a TD oversee training and philosophy etc.
Are most young players chosen for reps from SAP - Yes. Does this get all the best? A lot better chance than previously when having a big business dad got many kids in (who maybe also went to all the high cost $kills camp$?) Im not saying its the best way yet.

Didnt someone mention earlier that last years fees of $700 pp wasnt even a break even?
2019 fees for most clubs with 2 teams would be u9s $900 x 16 players = 14,400 then x2 for U10s = $29,000 thats a lot of $$

Could we do it for cheaper?
You'd hope so. Becuase if we had 2-4 extra community teams that use the same lights, grounds, balls, equipment and a coach would still be $250 per player or maybe 450 with kit.

Appreciate the response. If SAP does alleviate what I bolded in your response that's certainly going a long way to make things right.

[plague]

Appreciate the response. If SAP does alleviate what I bolded in your response that's certainly going a long way to make things right.

Yeah part of taking this sort of development away from 'third party' set ups and into the hands of clubs is that if the clubs play it right they will have good quality kids making up the bulk of their future 1st grade squads. the very best of them will go higher, but this is also a club building exercise.

one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

[sammydog]

Yeah part of taking this sort of development away from 'third party' set ups and into the hands of clubs is that if the clubs play it right they will have good quality kids making up the bulk of their future 1st grade squads. the very best of them will go higher, but this is also a club building exercise.

No, it only helps the clubs with SAP build.

Be clear about that. Everyone else is left out in the cold. It is very hard to develop juniors when you know they are going to leave for something you can not offer.

Our club may only play in the Zone League, but I cant remember the last time a junior came through to play in our squad because they are all taken away from the club by the SAP and NPL systems leaving us with very few teams over the age of 12.

Makes it hard to build when Juniors are lured away.


one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

Does that kick back continue back to the clubs that originally had the kids, before the SAP programs took them in?

[plague]

No, it only helps the clubs with SAP build.

Be clear about that. Everyone else is left out in the cold. It is very hard to develop juniors when you know they are going to leave for something you can not offer.

Our club may only play in the Zone League, but I cant remember the last time a junior came through to play in our squad because they are all taken away from the club by the SAP and NPL systems leaving us with very few teams over the age of 12.

Makes it hard to build when Juniors are lured away.


absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.





*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

[plague]

Does that kick back continue back to the clubs that originally had the kids, before the SAP programs took them in?

for sure, id even love it if somehow the club where the kid first started got the best deal out of the lot. because without that first step there is nothing. it should be rewarded.

[sammydog]

absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.




however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.

*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

Which club is the non NPL/NL1 SAP club?

I agree the best kids will always seek out the big teams/clubs. But is the current set up makes it near on impossible to offer anything to compete.

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.

I realise that even if we had SAP, kids would look for the best club they could, but I also know we would be able to retain and develop a high number of our own players. And yes, the best of these would obviously end up playing NPL or NL1 and that's fine, but some would also flow into our senior system.

[plague]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.


oh for sure.
its like the club that preached loyalty at every single meeting last season only to cut 6/18 kids from their SAP squad after year 1.
the hypocrisy makes me giggle too dont worry.

[The Dunster]

absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.





*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

Nothings changed in 50 years Plague. It's still the same shit fight off field it always was - only the actors names have changed.
Technical skill of kids is way better. Physically / athletically definitely going backwards on average. Best kids - pretty much the same allowing for equipment, surface changes and doping.
WHich is another question ? At what age is it appropriate to start the kids on a cycle ? Or is that something people don't want to talk about ?

[plague]

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.


and this is the best news out of all of it and i can only hope that NNSW lets you plead your case.
because there have been changes since year 1. so why cant there be more?
i actually have faith that NNSW is trying to do the 'right' thing by everyone. Its understandable why they drew lines in the sand to begin with.
hopefully there are people involved that have the ability to adjust it along to the way to make the program even better.

but yeah its football......so ummm yeah.

[plague]

At what age is it appropriate to start the kids on a cycle ? Or is that something people don't want to talk about ?

ive had Plague Jnr on Alberto Contador branded meat products since birth.

[The Dunster]

ive had Plague Jnr on Alberto Contador branded meat products since birth.

Couldn't think of a finer role model. Well done.

[rawr.]

one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

The first grassroots club that they played for does get a kick back - ie. Hoole (I think?) and Maryland Fletcher FC

[MFKS]

Yeah part of taking this sort of development away from 'third party' set ups and into the hands of clubs is that if the clubs play it right they will have good quality kids making up the bulk of their future 1st grade squads. the very best of them will go higher, but this is also a club building exercise.

one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

Like transfer fees like we have everywhere else in the world??

The FFA have abolished them from Oz football thanks to the way they allow the game to be operated

It about time they allowed NPL clubs to sell players to HAL clubs and get compensated adequately for it not have what happened to Apia this year when the Gypos poached their gun player just as the business end of the NPL season arrived

They got peanuts for him leaving and it probably cost them both Minor and Major crowns in the NPL

[plague]

Like transfer fees like we have everywhere else in the world??

The FFA have abolished them from Oz football thanks to the way they allow the game to be operated


Totally agree.
Would love the new regime to tick off on it, and cant see why the clubs (who now run the game) wouldn't want it too.

[Retired01]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.



This Club is discussed right through most teams who did SAP last year from kids attitudes and coaches to aggressive tactics used to win games. Supposedly a lot of disgruntled parents inside that club too
In addition there is now a certain third party moving to that Club which has caused more friction.

Such a shame for the kids but if my son was good enough to be there I may have a different opinion.

[dan]

Can confirm that is the case sadly Retired01.
I know this probably isn’t the thread to ask this, but it seems to be filled with people who care about the kids development. But Wallsend has one spot left in the U9’s and 4-6 spots in the U10’s if anyone knows of any kids who are committed and coachable. Anyone who saw us around this year knows we put fun and development above results at this age. We have 3 girls in the U9’s so far and with our WPL it’s a great pathway for the young ladies.
Email me if anyone is interested in more info: youth@wallsendfc.com.au
As I mentioned in a previous post our rego for new players is $650 (that includes everything), which must be close to one of the cheaper regos in SAP.

[Negative Police]

Northerns SAP rego fees are $367.50 per kid straight off the bat.
Then clubs incorporate kits, their own council fees for the one night they train at their local ground etc & you can see how it adds up quite quickly.

Oh crap. Well that clears that up. Any reason why this much?

[Negative Police]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.



Which club is the non NPL/NL1 SAP club?

I agree the best kids will always seek out the big teams/clubs. But is the current set up makes it near on impossible to offer anything to compete.

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.

I realise that even if we had SAP, kids would look for the best club they could, but I also know we would be able to retain and develop a high number of our own players. And yes, the best of these would obviously end up playing NPL or NL1 and that's fine, but some would also flow into our senior system.

So you would be happy with u9 - u12 SAP teams. Cant see why zpl couldnt put 1 team in if they get the $$ and criteria. I suppose zl1 would then miss out and so on.

[Negative Police]

oh for sure.
its like the club that preached loyalty at every single meeting last season only to cut 6/18 kids from their SAP squad after year 1.
the hypocrisy makes me giggle too dont worry.

Yeah no good. I'd rather be at a smaller club with a solid group that stays for a longer term. Im sure they would develop to compete with the big boys.

One down side is the sway bigger clubs can have with getting their lads into reaching the next level. Like Dunst said. People in high places have good mates.

[dan]

That amount includes things such as rego, use of speers point facility to train once a week, their TD’s which over see training & give clubs a training schedule each week, a training ball among other things. I don’t have the paperwork in front of me at the moment sorry

[sammydog]

So you would be happy with u9 - u12 SAP teams. Cant see why zpl couldnt put 1 team in if they get the $$ and criteria. I suppose zl1 would then miss out and so on.

yes, I would be more than happy with U9-U12 knowing that some of these kids would end up at NPL/NL1 level, but that we would be retaining others to feed into our seniors.

At the end of the day, as a lot of others have noted, SAP will raise the level of coaches and their qualification and I see no reason why we couldn't manage such a program.

[Retired01]

Can confirm that is the case sadly Retired01.
I know this probably isn’t the thread to ask this, but it seems to be filled with people who care about the kids development. But Wallsend has one spot left in the U9’s and 4-6 spots in the U10’s if anyone knows of any kids who are committed and coachable. Anyone who saw us around this year knows we put fun and development above results at this age. We have 3 girls in the U9’s so far and with our WPL it’s a great pathway for the young ladies.
Email me if anyone is interested in more info: youth@wallsendfc.com.au
As I mentioned in a previous post our rego for new players is $650 (that includes everything), which must be close to one of the cheaper regos in SAP.

The lack of players is an issue across a few clubs with some only going to put 1 team in next season. I think that is a very good idea and well done to those clubs.
There simply aren't enough good players around to fill all the positions and I do now completely agree that all clubs shouldn't get offered SAP licenses.

[Goatscheese]

Not going to improve on the talent if the options for development aren't there for as many as possible.

[plague]

Not going to improve on the talent if the options for development aren't there for as many as possible.

Cool, let's circle all the way back around then.

I dont reackon they should have any development squads until it's free for everyone.

Only then will it be fair

Bugger appealing to 60-70-80 or 90% of the population.
All or nothing.

Something something something.

[Goatscheese]

Cool, let's circle all the way back around then.

I dont reackon they should have any development squads until it's free for everyone.

Only then will it be fair

Bugger appealing to 60-70-80 or 90% of the population.
All or nothing.

Something something something.

Are you familiar with the term strawman? Because you're using it right now.

[plague]

Are you familiar with the term strawman?

Yes, they keep the crows away from my corn fields.

Not sure how many of them went through a development program though.

[Goatscheese]

Yes, they keep the crows away from my corn fields.

Not sure how many of them went through a development program though.

Probably do as good for Australia as 95% of the ones in those development programs. That 5% could be a lot bigger but people like you want it remained small

[plague]

That 5% could be a lot bigger but people like you want it remained small

Hey man if I had trouble reading and comprehending people's posts then I'd probably come to the same stupid conclusion.
So good job good effort there guy.

[plague]

Talking to a parent from another SAP team the other day.
Their club is canvassing whether to utilise the 2nd weekly training session out at Speers pt or just do 2 sessions at their home ground.

They are asking parents because some made comments last year about it being a hassle going all the way out there.

Any parents who cant be bothered going through the 'hassle' should remove their kids from the program because how the hell are the kids ever going to be motivated to go th er extra step when they are surrounded by people willing to take the easy option.

Now if your home facilities are better than Speers pt, then I can understand it. But this club def ain't in that boat.

Add to that the kids are paying for the facility regardless, and that's where the NNSW coaches are to observe the coaches and improve both them and the players.

Def comes across as a short sighted option.

[sammydog]

Talking to a parent from another SAP team the other day.
Their club is canvassing whether to utilise the 2nd weekly training session out at Speers pt or just do 2 sessions at their home ground.

They are asking parents because some made comments last year about it being a hassle going all the way out there.

Any parents who cant be bothered going through the 'hassle' should remove their kids from the program because how the hell are the kids ever going to be motivated to go th er extra step when they are surrounded by people willing to take the easy option.

Now if your home facilities are better than Speers pt, then I can understand it. But this club def ain't in that boat.

Add to that the kids are paying for the facility regardless, and that's where the NNSW coaches are to observe the coaches and improve both them and the players.

Def comes across as a short sighted option.

Is it a requirement of the SAP licence that they use the Speers Point Facility so NNSW coaches can observe?

[plague]

Is it a requirement of the SAP licence that they use the Speers Point Facility so NNSW coaches can observe?

I assumed it was, but arent sure.
One club bailed on the facility last year, not sure of the exact reason.

Personally, I thought the kids trained much better out there. Smaller spaces, perfect fields, the ball was always in play.
Plus the NNSW coaches were super active in stepping in on sessions.
Just hope some of these club coaches dont now think they know everything and dont want to be told how to coach.

[football_macigian23]

I assumed it was, but arent sure.
One club bailed on the facility last year, not sure of the exact reason.

Personally, I thought the kids trained much better out there. Smaller spaces, perfect fields, the ball was always in play.
Plus the NNSW coaches were super active in stepping in on sessions.
Just hope some of these club coaches dont now think they know everything and dont want to be told how to coach.

Definitely not a requirement to attend LMRFF, it's only an option for teams

Apparently training at the facility will be fortnightly this season due to the inclusion of Under 10 SAP and minimal space for weekly sessions?

[plague]

Definitely not a requirement to attend LMRFF, it's only an option for teams

Apparently training at the facility will be fortnightly this season due to the inclusion of Under 10 SAP and minimal space for weekly sessions?

(Assuming you're involved with a SAP team), did your team enjoy/benefit from using the facility out there?

Interesting about the fortnightly change. Granted there are twice as many teams this year (9 and 10) but last year on Plague Jnrs training day there were 4 teams using the courts and every other one was empty.
Would have thought they could easily accommodate everyone.

[Negative Police]

I know of one team that probably wont due to their dropping off early last year as well

How did it work out at Mac last year? Did the team coach do the "drills" and nnsw coaches oversee? Would the U9's coaches benefit from having the NNSW coaches assisting?

I do know that the clubs TD has a big say on how everything operates.

I also think NF will be involved with some teams this year. Combo of NF and NNSW processes. Im confused as well.

[Goatscheese]

Hey man if I had trouble reading and comprehending people's posts then I'd probably come to the same stupid conclusion.
So good job good effort there guy.

Quite clearly, you do which you've proven to us multiple times on this thread alone

[plague]

How did it work out at Mac last year? Did the team coach do the "drills" and nnsw coaches oversee? Would the U9's coaches benefit from having the NNSW coaches assisting?


Yeah exactly.
I thought the NNSW coaches were really good, and also very approachable.

They were also pretty adamant on how the drills and sessions were supposed to be run.

You could def see some of the teams coaches react differently to being told what to do.

Personally I thought the kids responded well to the NNSW coaches, and hope they remain as involved next year.

[plague]

So the under 10 SAP program boys will be playing games against 3 different girls teams this season inc Jets youth girls.

Anyone know what age these girls teams are? Because without being completely sexist you'd Imagine they would need to be at least a couple years older in order for it to be competitive.

[Hunter403]

It will be good if the NNSW coaches stay involved. It will help keep the focus on development in case some coaches get drawn into result hunting

[plague]

The girls teams playing against U/10 boys are the following:
*Emerging Jets Girls.
*NNSWF Newcastle SAP girls.
*Macquarie Football girls.


Does anyone know what ages these kids are. Im not hating on the idea, it will just be interesting to hear the reasoning behind it.

[plague]

It will be good if the NNSW coaches stay involved. It will help keep the focus on development in case some coaches get drawn into result hunting

This has been the interesting change since last year.
Instead of one of the weekly sessions being at the Speers Pt facility, its now only every 2 weeks.
So there is (at the moment) less exposure to the NNSW coaches.
Only thought is that since there are double the amount of kids this year (under 9's entering the program) they dont have space for every team every week.


but

the couple of times Plague Jnrs team has trained out there they have been the only club out there. They take up 4 courts per club, so all the rest were empty. Plenty of space for more teams. Not sure if its a scheduling thing, or if clubs just arent bothering to go out there.

We will def reassess next season if our club isnt utilising the facility or getting the extra benefit of NNSW coaches. Its a lot of money to pay to just train twice a week at the local ground in front of normal coaches.

[The Dunster]

So the under 10 SAP program boys will be playing games against 3 different girls teams this season inc Jets youth girls.

Anyone know what age these girls teams are? Because without being completely sexist you'd Imagine they would need to be at least a couple years older in order for it to be competitive.

There's not a lot of difference athletically between boys and girls at ten years of age. The main advantage the boys have would be opportunity - training, more football / experience. But athletically there's never been much in it - the best girls would still make boys finals at state level in sprinting, high jump, middle distance, discuss, shot... and so on.

[dan]

There’s Newcastle/Hunter/Macquarie girls teams in the 9’s draw too. We’ve got a couple of girls in our Wallsend SAP 9’s so it’s great to give the girls a pathway to our WPL teams & getting to play against the strongest kids their age in the region

[plague]

We’ve got a couple of girls in our Wallsend SAP 9’s so it’s great to give the girls a pathway to our WPL teams & getting to play against the strongest kids their age in the region

yeah just to be crystal clear, im not against the idea, just genuinely curious.
Id imagine Jets wouldnt have U/10 girls teams would they, so was just wondering if they were going to be 11 or 12 year olds.

Our club has girls SAP teams as well. Agree its great. Just hoping they get the balance right.

Can only imagine there will be some parents out there with some real strong opinions on this.

[dan]

yeah just to be crystal clear, im not against the idea, just genuinely curious.
Id imagine Jets wouldnt have U/10 girls teams would they, so was just wondering if they were going to be 11 or 12 year olds.

Our club has girls SAP teams as well. Agree its great. Just hoping they get the balance right.

Can only imagine there will be some parents out there with some real strong opinions on this.

I agree getting the balance is important, and there will be parents with some strong opinions. You would think the Zones looking after the SAP girls will have better resources for paying coaches, equipment & facilities too.

[Negative Police]

So do the 9's girls play against the 9's boys?

Draw is out as well. Seems pretty similar to last year where same club teams play at same time then have a game off then swap opponents.

[plague]

So do the 9's girls play against the 9's boys?

Draw is out as well. Seems pretty similar to last year where same club teams play at same time then have a game off then swap opponents.

yeah was trying to see if any teams dropped from the program. Singleton looks like they went back to one team, which wasnt a bad idea as they were getting flogged every week. Am happy that the clubs with lots of junior numbers kept the numbers up. Not all kids peak at 9 so glad they are keeping the net as wide as possible.

Havent spoken to any team officials from our club and was wondering the age of the girls teams they are all playing. Can only assume the Jets girls will be older, as i didnt think they had a U/10's program.


Another thing was our club has moved to an A team and B team this year. Last year they split the teams evenly, but sounds like the club, rather than the coaches, made them stack the teams.

i can understand both sides of the argument, but would have preferred they split the talent.
not sure how many other clubs have gone down this route (i know a few did last year).

[Negative Police]

yeah was trying to see if any teams dropped from the program. Singleton looks like they went back to one team, which wasnt a bad idea as they were getting flogged every week. Am happy that the clubs with lots of junior numbers kept the numbers up. Not all kids peak at 9 so glad they are keeping the net as wide as possible.

Havent spoken to any team officials from our club and was wondering the age of the girls teams they are all playing. Can only assume the Jets girls will be older, as i didnt think they had a U/10's program.

Another thing was our club has moved to an A team and B team this year. Last year they split the teams evenly, but sounds like the club, rather than the coaches, made them stack the teams.

i can understand both sides of the argument, but would have preferred they split the talent.
not sure how many other clubs have gone down this route (i know a few did last year).

in 9's Southy is a new team. Wallsend back to one team and they play their hub days together.

So why have A & B? To win? and to keep this as the main future squad?

If you need an A team to compete maybe only one team is necessary. Those in B teams might also walk before they hit their peak.

[sammydog]

Absolutely over SAP. Our club got pillaged again in the junior ranks.

8 players from last years under 8's gone to this seasons U9's SAP at other clubs. More gone from older ages.

I'd like to know why it is only NPL/NL1 with the opportunity to run the show. For the second year running we have lost enough kids to fill a full team. Set strict licensing criteria like other confederations and open the system up to clubs with ambition. Current system makes it impossible to build youth at clubs outside the privileged few.

[plague]

So why have A & B? To win? and to keep this as the main future squad?

If you need an A team to compete maybe only one team is necessary. Those in B teams might also walk before they hit their peak.

yeah again, totally understand all the different arguments.
Our club has pretty much been told from next year (11's onwards), it will be one (bigger) team. So there will be about 14 spots available.
The 2 different coaches have 2 very different approaches, and i think they've matched the kids to the coach they will do better under. Some kids last year were pretty uninterested, but skillful enough. The coach they have this year is great at getting people enthused, whereas the A team coach is a bit more technical. Maybe putting the 'better' kids with the technical coach and the kids that needed a fire up with the B team coach will help everyone. Judging from training though, the kids in the B team dont feel like they are any less deserving, which has been awesome to watch.

[plague]

Absolutely over SAP. Our club got pillaged again in the junior ranks.

8 players from last years under 8's gone to this seasons U9's SAP at other clubs. More gone from older ages.

I'd like to know why it is only NPL/NL1 with the opportunity to run the show. For the second year running we have lost enough kids to fill a full team. Set strict licensing criteria like other confederations and open the system up to clubs with ambition. Current system makes it impossible to build youth at clubs outside the privileged few.

Does your club run the NET program? has it been offered to you? or is that an NPL thing as well?

[The Dunster]

yeah again, totally understand all the different arguments.
Our club has pretty much been told from next year (11's onwards), it will be one (bigger) team. So there will be about 14 spots available.
The 2 different coaches have 2 very different approaches, and i think they've matched the kids to the coach they will do better under. Some kids last year were pretty uninterested, but skillful enough. The coach they have this year is great at getting people enthused, whereas the A team coach is a bit more technical. Maybe putting the 'better' kids with the technical coach and the kids that needed a fire up with the B team coach will help everyone. Judging from training though, the kids in the B team dont feel like they are any less deserving, which has been awesome to watch.

It's an old experiment and the results at this age are usually - A team will beat the B team. B team will beat everyone else including teams A team loses to.

[MFKS]

Tweet on Twitter from Tom Byers well known alternative coaching philosopher

Basically bagging this concept being imposed on 9 year olds

Makes the pretty relevant point that it should be being applied to the 6-9 year old bracket instead and that the powers that be are clueless

[sammydog]

Does your club run the NET program? has it been offered to you? or is that an NPL thing as well?

Thats only for Newcastle Clubs unfortunately. That program seem to be pretty good looking from the outside.

[plague]

Tweet on Twitter from Tom Byers well known alternative coaching philosopher

Basically bagging this concept being imposed on 9 year olds

Makes the pretty relevant point that it should be being applied to the 6-9 year old bracket instead and that the powers that be are clueless

it is a pretty weird system that basically says ages 6-9 its all about playing and winning games on the weekend (this is the attitude of coaches and trainers, no mini roos clubs are dedicated at teaching kids the home program etc).
Then at 9 we say, forget games, its all about skills and we'll get to tactics around 11 or 12.

the thing ive noticed from last year and this year, the 'new' kids that trialled for the SAP program were still all about running all over the park kicking crap out of anyone to win the ball the trying to dribble around everyone to score. they looked so out of depth against kids that could play a simple 1-2 or hold a ball up and roll a defender.

'luckily' Plague jnr was all about technique on the ball in those early years. the best kids in his team now already have so much more time on the ball, and seem quite 'lazy' compared to others but are way better footballers than the energizer bunnies.

miniroos (age 6 up) need an overhaul and get the kids learning to kick and pass with some technique before worrying about winning games. but then the age old thing comes in about who teaches them from that age? are parents happy to pay the money for multiple nights training for a sport their kid is just getting into?

id love to see miniroos coaches do a basic course, then make the parents interact with their kids at training. then get the parents to work on technique at home. 10 mins a day learning how to make good contact on the ball would put these kids so much further ahead (not to mention get them away from screens, get them fit etc etc etc).

i agree the whole system 'seems' backwards.

[plague]

Thats only for Newcastle Clubs unfortunately. That program seem to be pretty good looking from the outside.

really? had no idea. so Lake Mac doesnt offer anything other than SAP?
yet another example of the whole damn system being screwed i guess.

our club brought in a NET team this season as they had more than enough good kids to fill multiple SAP teams. all the kids trialled together and they moved them where the kids seemed to fit best. Some of Plague Jnrs old SAP teammates are playing NET this year. Its a bigger field with more players on the park and it def seems to suit the more athletic kids who can make use of the space. Our club was really good to point out that NET wasnt an 'inferior' program to SAP and that they were just different. from what ive seen from the NET kids in our club this year it already looks like a great program and the kids are every bit as focused on playing good football.

again, the hope is that more kids get more training in the hope of unearthing their potential.

[Negative Police]

Absolutely over SAP. Our club got pillaged again in the junior ranks.

8 players from last years under 8's gone to this seasons U9's SAP at other clubs. More gone from older ages.

I'd like to know why it is only NPL/NL1 with the opportunity to run the show. For the second year running we have lost enough kids to fill a full team. Set strict licensing criteria like other confederations and open the system up to clubs with ambition. Current system makes it impossible to build youth at clubs outside the privileged few.

So you got knocked back for a SAP team? I thought Kotara was also thinking of put a team in. They didnt.

Can you make up a special Macq comp?

[Negative Police]

yeah again, totally understand all the different arguments.
Our club has pretty much been told from next year (11's onwards), it will be one (bigger) team. So there will be about 14 spots available.
The 2 different coaches have 2 very different approaches, and i think they've matched the kids to the coach they will do better under. Some kids last year were pretty uninterested, but skillful enough. The coach they have this year is great at getting people enthused, whereas the A team coach is a bit more technical. Maybe putting the 'better' kids with the technical coach and the kids that needed a fire up with the B team coach will help everyone. Judging from training though, the kids in the B team dont feel like they are any less deserving, which has been awesome to watch.

Fair enough. Always an interesting affair when 2 teams go into 1.


It's an old experiment and the results at this age are usually - A team will beat the B team. B team will beat everyone else including teams A team loses to.

Amazing how this happens. IF the A team have a couple of guns theyll gun it.

[sammydog]

So you got knocked back for a SAP team? I thought Kotara was also thinking of put a team in. They didnt.

Can you make up a special Macq comp?

I believe they have put a team into the NET program. Did they not get it across the line in the end?

[plague]

I believe they have put a team into the NET program. Did they not get it across the line in the end?

yeah im positive Kotara has a NET team.

[sammydog]

yeah im positive Kotara has a NET team.

Hope they did, I have a lot of respect for that club.

[football_macigian23]

So the under 10 SAP program boys will be playing games against 3 different girls teams this season inc Jets youth girls.

Anyone know what age these girls teams are? Because without being completely sexist you'd Imagine they would need to be at least a couple years older in order for it to be competitive.

Ages of the girls teams vary. I know in the Under 9's the girls sides are Under 10 but they have a couple of girls turning 11 after the end of the season but I'm not sure why they'd do that.

[Negative Police]

Tweet on Twitter from Tom Byers well known alternative coaching philosopher

Basically bagging this concept being imposed on 9 year olds

Makes the pretty relevant point that it should be being applied to the 6-9 year old bracket instead and that the powers that be are clueless

Byers...

“The coaching at elite level in USA and Australia is better than Japan and Korea, the difference is that Japan and Korea, players are better technically.
“Skill is rarely the result of coaching, it’s discipline and culture. Kids in Japan train 52 weeks of the year.

So if you arent hitting passes, dropping the shoulder and turning out by 8 it's all over. 52 weeks is a long season and looks like the sporting career has to made by 5. So, give me a kid till 7 and ill show you the football professional and probably a social nutjob.

[Aegon]

Aegon Jr is new to SAP 9's this year, having read through some of the previous pages I can agree with some of the sentiment expressed but I think a lot of it is out of touch with reality. In the younger age groups there are far too many players for anyone to adequately train everyone at the same level. There isn't enough volunteer coaches or the finances to support it from the top down.

I coached for the last 3 seasons at Jr's previous club in miniroos and at the community club level the biggest challenge is trying to train kids at such varied levels of ability and enthusiasm. Unfortunately the majority of your time has to be spent with kids who need extra help rather than trying to nurture the kids with the most talent. i would love for there to be more resources and more volunteers but there just isn't. So for Jr I decided to try SAP for a year and see where we go from there.
The most noticeable differences so far is that at Jr's SAP club the coaches are well informed, accredited and being mentored directly by a TD. The kids there are all keen and there is already a good grasp of the fundamentals. With several training sessions a week with other good kids and great coaching and 2 games each weekend I can't fault my choice to put Jr into SAP. Agree or Disagree with the concept it is currently the best available option for kids 8yo and above.

With regards to teams, they have only played 1 round so far but it looks like there are 4 clubs with only a single team, plus the Hunter Valley and Lake Macquarie girls also only fielding a single team. I can't confirm what age group the girls teams are but judging by the size difference they are at least Under 10's in the Under 9's. Some of the boys weren't even as tall as the girls shoulders.

I don't know about the other clubs yet but Jr's team have picked two evenly skilled teams not an A & B squad.

I'm hearing rumours that they have only released half the draw as they may split the comp after round 11 into 2 groups to try and balance team abilities and avoid lopsided results.

With regards to finances, after the active kids voucher the fees were $600+, however I was very happy that the club gave a breakdown of the fees to show exactly how much was being allocated from the fees into different areas such as NNSW contribution, grounds, lighting, coaches, TD, insurance, etc, etc. The club gives everyone the option to pay up front or via a payment plan. While it is still expensive it is definitely achievable and not out of reach for everyone as some have previously said here. In 12 Months I'll spend way more than $600 on alcohol, coffee, lunch, etc, so it just takes a bit of tightening of the purse strings in some areas to get the most for your kids.

[plague]

i saw one of the SAP 9's teams playing against a U/10 girls team last weekend, the 9's boys (granted it was one of the 'stronger' SAP clubs) were towelling the girls up pretty easily.
When we were leaving the one of the SAP 10's teams were warming up and the girls team they were about to play were waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy bigger than them. So not sure if those girls were 11's or 12's.

[The Dunster]

i saw one of the SAP 9's teams playing against a U/10 girls team last weekend, the 9's boys (granted it was one of the 'stronger' SAP clubs) were towelling the girls up pretty easily.
When we were leaving the one of the SAP 10's teams were warming up and the girls team they were about to play were waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy bigger than them. So not sure if those girls were 11's or 12's.

That might come back to haunt them in five or six years.

[Hunter403]

.

With regards to finances, after the active kids voucher the fees were $600+, however I was very happy that the club gave a breakdown of the fees to show exactly how much was being allocated from the fees into different areas such as NNSW contribution, grounds, lighting, coaches, TD, insurance, etc, etc. The club gives everyone the option to pay up front or via a payment plan. While it is still expensive it is definitely achievable and not out of reach for everyone as some have previously said here. In 12 Months I'll spend way more than $600 on alcohol, coffee, lunch, etc, so it just takes a bit of tightening of the purse strings in some areas to get the most for your kids.

Which club, may I ask? An excellent bit of PR, showing the parents where their hard earned goes. Should be mandatory for all SAP, NEWFM and NPL clubs where families get hit with anything over $500. My kids fees this year in NPL well exceeded $1000 and I have no clarity on where it goes.

[Aegon]

Which club, may I ask? An excellent bit of PR, showing the parents where their hard earned goes. Should be mandatory for all SAP, NEWFM and NPL clubs where families get hit with anything over $500. My kids fees this year in NPL well exceeded $1000 and I have no clarity on where it goes.

Jaffas. It was in the first or second parents meeting where they gave every parent a bunch of handouts. one of the handouts was a full page breakdown of what they were charging and exactly how much was going into different areas. The breakdown as it was explained to us was based on known costs for this season and estimated costs based on the previous season. The biggest chunk of the fees definitely went up the food chain.

[ForeverRed]

Nice post, just remember it’s not a comp though, some parents can get lost with this

[plague]

Should be mandatory for all SAP, NEWFM and NPL clubs where families get hit with anything over $500. My kids fees this year in NPL well exceeded $1000 and I have no clarity on where it goes.

id say pretty much every club would be more than happy to show you where the money goes if you ask. Our club has always been pretty eager to show parents that the club itself was not getting much out of it. If anything it gives a lot of parents motivation to maybe volunteer more to help the club out, knowing how much others are putting into it.

[Hunter403]

Jaffas. It was in the first or second parents meeting where they gave every parent a bunch of handouts. one of the handouts was a full page breakdown of what they were charging and exactly how much was going into different areas. The breakdown as it was explained to us was based on known costs for this season and estimated costs based on the previous season. The biggest chunk of the fees definitely went up the food chain.

Well done Jaffas SAP.

My son is in their Youth NPL. Pity that they didn't do the same there!! Currently have parents up in arms over a $350 clothing cost for a training shirt, training shorts, match shorts, 2 pairs socks and a track suit top and a polo. Poor quality stuff it is too.

[Hunter403]

id say pretty much every club would be more than happy to show you where the money goes if you ask. Our club has always been pretty eager to show parents that the club itself was not getting much out of it. If anything it gives a lot of parents motivation to maybe volunteer more to help the club out, knowing how much others are putting into it.

I think that the smart clubs would do this as a matter of course. saves the inevitable "our fees pay the first grade wages" complaints. Having been on a club committee, I am fully aware of just how much it costs, but clubs that don't provide that openness are asking for complaints. I agree that most clubs would show you if you asked, but I think that the smart move would be to offer it up.

[Negative Police]

Nice post, just remember it’s not a comp though, some parents can get lost with this

for sure

44 games to build skills, knowledge and make decisions under pressure. 1 or 2 teams might still be in it for egotistical win though.

[MFKS]

Well done Jaffas SAP.

My son is in their Youth NPL. Pity that they didn't do the same there!! Currently have parents up in arms over a $350 clothing cost for a training shirt, training shorts, match shorts, 2 pairs socks and a track suit top and a polo. Poor quality stuff it is too.

Might want to investigate the links between the club and supplier then

[Aegon]

Might want to investigate the links between the club and supplier then

The supplier covers a lot of the clubs in the hunter. A couple of Aegon Jr's friends are in other SAP teams and their uniform costs were all around the $300 mark. Cost is for 2 strips, training shirt, polo shirt and a club jacket. Pretty steep if you ask me but there doesn't seem to be a big range in the supplier options.

[Aegon]

I've now been watching the 9's and 10's SAP games for 5 rounds.
There are some kids out there that are being very well trained & hopefully it shows in their future development.

I have also recently learnt of these programs that are in place.
NNSWF have the Talent Support Program via Leo Bertos for U10's (& NPL ages) & Newcastle Football via Richard Hartley are running an Advanced Group Training for U9's-U12's.
Both of these initiatives are taking selected kids from those age groups and running extra training (1 or 2 nights a week) in order to further develop the kids with most potential.

However a gripe I have is that some SAP clubs are setting their teams up with A & B squads. I do not understand the reasoning behind this as the B squads I have seen are getting demolished. Personally I think it isn't great for the development of either team and in the end most of the parents & kids of the B teams will get sick of paying $1000 a year and go back to community football or quit the game entirely.

[plague]

However a gripe I have is that some SAP clubs are setting their teams up with A & B squads. I do not understand the reasoning behind this as the B squads I have seen are getting demolished. Personally I think it isn't great for the development of either team and in the end most of the parents & kids of the B teams will get sick of paying $1000 a year and go back to community football or quit the game entirely.

Plague Jnrs club* is one of the ones that set up and A and a B team. This was done via instruction from the 'technical director' of the club, not by the SAP coaches. There was def a lot of discussion between coaches and parents on the merits of the idea, but it was implemented anyway.

The main reason is that from next year, SAP is going to one team per club (approx 13-14 kids as opposed to 18 this year), so a bunch of kids are going to get cut regardless. Having seen the kids in Plague Jnrs club, and other kids in the program, its evident that some kids arent good enough for what the program is designed for (at the moment). Our club intends on giving any kids that miss out on SAP next year a leg up into their NET team in order to keep them involved with the club and still getting better coaching than 'park football' kids.
Again, there are def positives and negatives in it, but it is what it is. The program is designed to get the very best of these kids ready to join the emerging Jets in a couple of years time. They need to be pushed now, and training, playing against similar standard kids is the only way to get there. I dont like that some of the bigger clubs will only get one team next year (including ours) when there are clubs in the program now that have 2 squads full of kids who are just not good enough.


Again though, its not over for the kids. One of Plague Jnrs new team mates wasnt in SAP last year, just played with his mates (for 'our' club). He heard about the trials and came down for a crack. He is already one of the better players in the A team, and looks a real talent. If kids miss out next year then they'll prob have to work out why, and if they still want it, bust their ass to get back in.

A bit of rejection should never be a bad thing at any age.





*Plague Jnr is in U/10's, he played last year in U/9 SAP and the teams werent graded. This year the U/9 SAP kids at his club arent graded either.

[Aegon]

Plague Jnrs club* is one of the ones that set up and A and a B team. This was done via instruction from the 'technical director' of the club, not by the SAP coaches. There was def a lot of discussion between coaches and parents on the merits of the idea, but it was implemented anyway.


A bit of rejection should never be a bad thing at any age.

I don't disagree at all about the rejection thing, I think the kids are being over protected already, especially not playing competitively (scores) until Under 12's. I know my son and his mates play Futsal in the off season which is scored from Under 6/7's and it has never been an issue.

My issue is with the development, I honestly think it is detrimental to both the A and B squads not mixing ability levels. In every team ever there is always a difference in ability from top to bottom player. These kids should be getting used to that now by learning to play with and against players who are better and worse than them. The players in the "A" teams are not going to be used to having to play it tough either, I'll be real interested to see what happens to the "A" teams when they start facing tougher competition every week from under 11's.

[plague]

I don't disagree at all about the rejection thing, I think the kids are being over protected already, especially not playing competitively (scores) until Under 12's. I know my son and his mates play Futsal in the off season which is scored from Under 6/7's and it has never been an issue.

My issue is with the development, I honestly think it is detrimental to both the A and B squads not mixing ability levels. In every team ever there is always a difference in ability from top to bottom player. These kids should be getting used to that now by learning to play with and against players who are better and worse than them. The players in the "A" teams are not going to be used to having to play it tough either, I'll be real interested to see what happens to the "A" teams when they start facing tougher competition every week from under 11's.



yeah, its hilarious that all the SAP kids play to win, they know if they won, they know the score and so do the parents and coaches. To be fair though, ive never heard Plague Jnrs coach talk specifically about a 'win' or a 'loss' after the game or at training. He talks a lot about the performance and works on things the kids didnt do well while its fresh in their memories.

Can totally understand every different point of view on the A and B thing. Last year Plague jnr had one of the best kids in the whole program in his team, the combination they had was great and it lifted Plague jnrs level immensely. This year he has probably 3 of the better kids in the program (and the rest are all really good) on his team and they are a pretty decent side. But Plague Jnr has a lot less to do individually because of how good his teammates are. My 'fear' is that he will not develop at the same rate as last year because his job is way easier. again though, his coach is so good taking him aside and working on things that if he applies himself, he'll improve. and if he isnt good enough, then he'll soon know.

one of the problems with 2 'ok' teams is that a lot of the best kids in those teams went and trialled with 'stronger' teams and clubs from 9's to 10's. The kids (and prob parents) wanted their kids in the best environment and you cant blame them. by the time our kids get to 14's, the best of them (realistically only 1 or 2 kids) will be in the Jets program, and the rest will be part of a really strong NPL side, who are still being exposed to great coaching and matches (including against the Jets) so if they stand out they will still be seen.

IM not sure how clubs getting routinely flogged every week will attract better players and how they'll compete by the time it gets 'serious'. Hopefully any kids on the borderline of getting cut by the better clubs go and trials at the lower clubs and boost their teams. it will make the program better and sustain the NPL going forward.

[Aegon]

yeah, its hilarious that all the SAP kids play to win, they know if they won, they know the score and so do the parents and coaches. To be fair though, ive never heard Plague Jnrs coach talk specifically about a 'win' or a 'loss' after the game or at training. He talks a lot about the performance and works on things the kids didnt do well while its fresh in their memories.

Exactly this. The coaches are doing a great job focusing on what they did well and what they need to improve rather than the result. However every child there will tell you the score at the end!

[plague]

Big example of whats wrong with junior football today.
An under 10's SAP game had to be abandoned when the ref had copped a couple of sprays from one of the coaches.
I could hear the coach talking to his players and was pretty rude to them during the game, but once he started on the ref it went way over the top.
The ref pretty much said to him to shut it, but the bloke wouldnt, so the ref told him to ref the game himself and walked off.

It was a ridiculous situation, and the coach should be seriously embarrassed, but here we are with so called 'elite' players having to put up with clowns like this bloke in charge of them. I saw parents/members of the club go up to the ref and apologise and it sounded like the coach had form.

kids aint gonna learn anything with dopes like that in charge of them.

[ForeverRed]

Name and shame

[plague]

Name and shame

as much as i would love to see the bloke get a talking to, im not sure calling him out personally 'on here' is the best way (nor do we want to Mods in any hot water).
the fact that people from his club were there hopefully means he has to answer to the right people.

Also if my kid was getting coached by a bloke like that he'd be moving him to another team as soon as possible.

[Negative Police]

I don't disagree at all about the rejection thing, I think the kids are being over protected already, especially not playing competitively (scores) until Under 12's. I know my son and his mates play Futsal in the off season which is scored from Under 6/7's and it has never been an issue.

My issue is with the development, I honestly think it is detrimental to both the A and B squads not mixing ability levels. In every team ever there is always a difference in ability from top to bottom player. These kids should be getting used to that now by learning to play with and against players who are better and worse than them. The players in the "A" teams are not going to be used to having to play it tough either, I'll be real interested to see what happens to the "A" teams when they start facing tougher competition every week from under 11's.

Interesting that there can be a B team determined before the first week. These players from this team will be on the outer if they dont improve. If The B team is still competitive then good but if going to get flogged thats no help for mine.

However, if the comp is broken into 2 sections for the 2nd half of the season,the strong and the weak should be competitive most weeks.

I do agree if most games are too easy then the challenge isnt enough.

I have also seen a couple players that are nowhere near the level. How they get in is beyond a joke.

[Negative Police]

I've now been watching the 9's and 10's SAP games for 5 rounds.
There are some kids out there that are being very well trained & hopefully it shows in their future development.

I have also recently learnt of these programs that are in place.
NNSWF have the Talent Support Program via Leo Bertos for U10's (& NPL ages) & Newcastle Football via Richard Hartley are running an Advanced Group Training for U9's-U12's.
Both of these initiatives are taking selected kids from those age groups and running extra training (1 or 2 nights a week) in order to further develop the kids with most potential.

TD's & Coaches discuss to choose which players attend. There are player assessment forms offered to clubs that can be used as needed.

I guess when players miss out on these sessions feelings or egos may get hurt.

[Retired01]

I also witnessed the situation regarding the coach on the weekend. I am not affiliated with either club involved in the game but that was very poor. When discussing with our coaches they informed me that yes he does have form and its known amongst a few clubs as a lot of the coaches know each other.
The delegation of authority to parents as referees in SAP is terrible and this is another example of the gap
- Referee abuse
- Player committing fouls which would get you sent off or carded
- Coaches flaunting the rules

NNSW need to recognise kids/parents/coaches are there to win.
Weve heard the competition will be split for round 2 for strong and weak clubs
How do you work out who is in which comp if you don't recognise who won and lost?

[plague]

I also witnessed the situation regarding the coach on the weekend. I am not affiliated with either club involved in the game but that was very poor. When discussing with our coaches they informed me that yes he does have form and its known amongst a few clubs as a lot of the coaches know each other.
The delegation of authority to parents as referees in SAP is terrible and this is another example of the gap
- Referee abuse
- Player committing fouls which would get you sent off or carded
- Coaches flaunting the rules

NNSW need to recognise kids/parents/coaches are there to win.
We've heard the competition will be split for round 2 for strong and weak clubs
How do you work out who is in which comp if you don't recognise who won and lost?

yeah i think by next year when they go to one squad NNSW is gonna have to recognise they need 'independent refs', and they may as well count the scores and results, its going on anyway.
Ive also noticed that Magic and Olympic tend to have youth players doing their ref duties for them. Does anyone know if thats because these kids want to be refs or are they doing it as a club duty? Because they pretty much always do a stellar job and the kids seem to def respect them even more maybe than someone who is clearly a 'parent' and less confident on the rules.

as for the grading of teams, yeah i know there isnt supposed to be tiers, but its a difficult one. There are 4 teams I've seen so far that are pumping everyone else. i dont mind the theory that these kids should prob be playing each other more often to help increase their level, and that the rest can play teams of equal level and get competitive games to hopefully build their confidence and skill set.
Seeing clubs get smashed 15-0 isnt helping either team IMHO, and this program is eventually about getting the best 17 or so for the Jets juniors and a bunch of strong NLP teams.
We just need to make sure the other kids who dont make that initial 17 are still motivated and inspired enough to keep at it in order to keep getting chances at making the Jets/NPL squads going forward.

[ForeverRed]

Interesting that there can be a B team determined before the first week. These players from this team will be on the outer if they dont improve. If The B team is still competitive then good but if going to get flogged thats no help for mine.

However, if the comp is broken into 2 sections for the 2nd half of the season,the strong and the weak should be competitive most weeks.

I do agree if most games are too easy then the challenge isnt enough.

I have also seen a couple players that are nowhere near the level. How they get in is beyond a joke.
Not sure how you can label a 9/10 year old nowhere good enough, quite laughable actually

[The Dunster]

For every kid this system develops you will probably lose half a dozen of equal or greater talent who simply couldn't be bothered with all the bullshit.
It's the same old shit with a new badge.

[plague]

Not sure how you can label a 9/10 year old nowhere good enough, quite laughable actually

Nah, no one is being told that.

But the boffins in charge have to select 16 out of the couple hundred kids to be in the 'best' team.
Then the 12(ish) club's have to each pick the best 16 each of the rest.
Then hopefully each year all those teams reselect their squads based on merit.

Eventually we'll have a team that wont go 3-0 down to the gypos at home and a bunch of teams making the FFA cup later rounds.

[Negative Police]

Not sure how you can label a 9/10 year old nowhere good enough, quite laughable actually

Best drop the prissy attitude now to avoid disappointment. It's a fact.

There a couple of players in the system because someone is connected with the club. As always some deserved kids missed out for these few. Of course this will be rectified in ensuing years when quality comes through. What it does do for 6 on field is make it harder for teams to play carrying a couple leg ups.

[Negative Police]

For every kid this system develops you will probably lose half a dozen of equal or greater talent who simply couldn't be bothered with all the bullshit.
It's the same old shit with a new badge.

For sure. Every holidays there are 3/4day camps. During season extra training sessions. All of these cost extra $$ on top of the SAP rego

Hopefully there is still a pathway for anyone u18. Ive seen a lot of emerging Jets filtering into our NPL league but why not Aleague.

I hope we can develop many more players for Aleague teams out of this system. Not forgetting Melb and Sydney kids will also do very well.

Side note. How many Hunter kids have made it to Aleague level of more than 15 games?

[Goatscheese]

. I dont like that some of the bigger clubs will only get one team next year (including ours) when there are clubs in the program now that have 2 squads full of kids who are just not good enough.

That's a good thing will move the good players into other clubs and strengthen the competition as a whole and will give all teams tough competition every week.

[plague]

That's a good thing will move the good players into other clubs and strengthen the competition as a whole and will give all teams tough competition every week.

the ideal plan is for the kids missing out on the top teams to go fill out other teams to strengthen them, to make sure the kids are still getting the training and opportunity (and remain motivated after missing out on their preferred club).
This needs to be communicated though as some clubs may not 'want' a bunch of outsiders coming in and taking therrrrr jobs.
NNSW has to preach the big picture here and get everyone on board.

[MFKS]

For sure. Every holidays there are 3/4day camps. During season extra training sessions. All of these cost extra $$ on top of the SAP rego

Hopefully there is still a pathway for anyone u18. Ive seen a lot of emerging Jets filtering into our NPL league but why not Aleague.

I hope we can develop many more players for Aleague teams out of this system. Not forgetting Melb and Sydney kids will also do very well.

Side note. How many Hunter kids have made it to Aleague level of more than 15 games?

Kanta
Pepper
Hoole
Taylor Reegz
BK
Jobe
Disco Stu
Hoff
Boogaard

Not a lot over 15 years and not a lot at the better end of HAL players

[plague]

No joke but didnt Australias greatest ever Socceroo, Daniel Arzani, not come through any of these programs? Just kind of got picked up later in life?


and did Nabbout have a similar trajectory? or was he a good junior that didnt come straight into the pros?

[Retired01]

Having watched my son develop I personally think the SAP program is a great idea and also believe the splitting up of round 2 (if true) is a great idea.
The weaker teams will have more time on the ball to improve basic skills and stronger teams actually taking their development forward. But the top section needs official referees to keep control as we witness every week the afore mentioned issues.

Will be interesting to see the arguments from clubs who fall just over or under the cut off point.

[The Dunster]

No joke but didnt Australias greatest ever Socceroo, Daniel Arzani, not come through any of these programs? Just kind of got picked up later in life?


and did Nabbout have a similar trajectory? or was he a good junior that didn't come straight into the pros?

Very hard to know if a player was simply a late bloomer or just a kid who never got the opportunity / breaks they deserved when young.

The people who played alongside or against the ones that did make it would probably have a few stories about ones that missed out through no fault of their own.

[plague]

Having watched my son develop I personally think the SAP program is a great idea and also believe the splitting up of round 2 (if true) is a great idea.
The weaker teams will have more time on the ball to improve basic skills and stronger teams actually taking their development forward. But the top section needs official referees to keep control as we witness every week the afore mentioned issues.

Will be interesting to see the arguments from clubs who fall just over or under the cut off point.

it will be interesting with our club, who has an A and B team. The results between the 2 teams are quite different, so the A team will easily compete (and benefit) with the top teams every week. The B team will find it much tougher. Having seen a couple of the stronger clubs, they seem to be in a similar situation to ours though.

[The Dunster]

it will be interesting with our club, who has an A and B team. The results between the 2 teams are quite different, so the A team will easily compete (and benefit) with the top teams every week. The B team will find it much tougher. Having seen a couple of the stronger clubs, they seem to be in a similar situation to ours though.

Are the players graded on an overall basis or for a particular position ? Asking along the lines of absolute or a comparative advantage for the A team over the B team.

[plague]

Are the players graded on an overall basis or for a particular position ? Asking along the lines of absolute or a comparative advantage for the A team over the B team.

yeah definitely.
Its hard to argue any of the kids in the B team being better 'overall' players than the kids in the A, but the kids in the A team def have their one skill that is a much higher level than anything else anyone else has.

For example, they have a kid that loves playing in the backs. he knows where to position his body and win a ball, he then can play an outlet pass with either foot to get the team going forward. He cant shoot, and rarely skills anyone 1 on 1. But he is great at the thing his strength. They also have a DM that goes side to side winning the ball, and playing off both feet. They have a striker that cant tackle but can hit his targets. Its also interesting to watch in training because they dont get schooled individually by the coaches on their strengths, they all have to do the same drills and are expected to be as good as everyone else in them.

The coaches often also play the kids out of position during games in order to improve their weaknesses. The striker who cant tackle is made to play in the backs and the defender who cant shoot goes upfront etc. Its a good move and def in the past has 'cost' them goals and not everyone is a fan of it, but i think its good for them to be continually challenged.

[Aegon]

Having watched my son develop I personally think the SAP program is a great idea and also believe the splitting up of round 2 (if true) is a great idea.
The weaker teams will have more time on the ball to improve basic skills and stronger teams actually taking their development forward. But the top section needs official referees to keep control as we witness every week the afore mentioned issues.

Will be interesting to see the arguments from clubs who fall just over or under the cut off point.

I had heard rumours that this might be happening after round 11. How are they are going to decide on the split though when nobody officially records the result?

I can see the logic in the decision and support it, however it brings back the same old question about whether results should be recorded in this competition? if Results don't matter, why are they splitting the comp at all?

Also, how do they grade it when some clubs have an A and a B team who are light years apart in the playing levels, do they split the two teams between the 2 divisions/groups/pools, or whatever they will call it?

[Aegon]

Are the players graded on an overall basis or for a particular position ? Asking along the lines of absolute or a comparative advantage for the A team over the B team.

This is a tough question, if you think about it there have been some exceptionally good players out there that can't play out of position to save their lives. It is already evident even at Aegon Jr's age that some boys are restricted to where they can play, some kids already have an amazing engine, good technical range, strong tacklers/on the ball. These same players may have some glaring weaknesses in other areas though. Do you evaluate the kids based on overall ability or judge them based on their ability/potential in specific positions or roles?

Tough decisions already. Glad I don't have to make them.

[plague]

I had heard rumours that this might be happening after round 11. How are they are going to decide on the split though when nobody officially records the result?

I can see the logic in the decision and support it, however it brings back the same old question about whether results should be recorded in this competition? if Results don't matter, why are they splitting the comp at all?

Also, how do they grade it when some clubs have an A and a B team who are light years apart in the playing levels, do they split the two teams between the 2 divisions/groups/pools, or whatever they will call it?


The NNSW guys are there most weekends watching the kids play, they would have a pretty good idea of which teams are 'better'.
I cant see them splitting clubs through. If you have a team good enough to be in the A group, then both teams are going there. Even the B teams at the best clubs are good enough to at least compete with the A teams. It may even mean the clubs rejigg their teams to even them back out seeing as though they are now going to be getting really strong competition every week.

[Negative Police]

This is a tough question, if you think about it there have been some exceptionally good players out there that can't play out of position to save their lives. It is already evident even at Aegon Jr's age that some boys are restricted to where they can play, some kids already have an amazing engine, good technical range, strong tacklers/on the ball. These same players may have some glaring weaknesses in other areas though. Do you evaluate the kids based on overall ability or judge them based on their ability/potential in specific positions or roles?

Tough decisions already. Glad I don't have to make them.

Pretty confident that if split into A & B the A teams will be position specific so they can be at strongest level.

I'd also back that some clubs will have both teams in the B section, some both in A and some split.

Stiil not sure if criteria is results based or if clubs suggest their allocation for each team.

[Aegon]

The NNSW guys are there most weekends watching the kids play, they would have a pretty good idea of which teams are 'better'.
I cant see them splitting clubs through. If you have a team good enough to be in the A group, then both teams are going there. Even the B teams at the best clubs are good enough to at least compete with the A teams. It may even mean the clubs rejigg their teams to even them back out seeing as though they are now going to be getting really strong competition every week.

That'll be hard on a club like Lake Macquarie. Their 9's have one exceptionally good team and one very weak team. I am not 100% positive but I think one team has won every game while the other has lost nearly every game.

[plague]

That'll be hard on a club like Lake Macquarie. Their 9's have one exceptionally good team and one very weak team. I am not 100% positive but I think one team has won every game while the other has lost nearly every game.

Sorry thats my bad i didnt know they were talking about splitting the 9's as well. I had only heard the 10's.

[Aegon]

Sorry thats my bad i didnt know they were talking about splitting the 9's as well. I had only heard the 10's.

Definitely not 100%. Just what we were told when they only released half the draw.

[MFKS]

The NNSW guys are there most weekends watching the kids play, they would have a pretty good idea of which teams are 'better'.
I cant see them splitting clubs through. If you have a team good enough to be in the A group, then both teams are going there. Even the B teams at the best clubs are good enough to at least compete with the A teams. It may even mean the clubs rejigg their teams to even them back out seeing as though they are now going to be getting really strong competition every week.

No **** that

I might be on beer 15 today but I gonna call you on that

The NNSW guys are the weakest out there

FFS the last Australian NT player they produced was either Middleby or Zane FFS.

They have little credibility really in the grand scheme of things

[Retired01]

No **** that

I might be on beer 15 today but I gonna call you on that

The NNSW guys are the weakest out there

FFS the last Australian NT player they produced was either Middleby or Zane FFS.

They have little credibility really in the grand scheme of things


I totally agree.
I try not to post unsolicited things on here so I asked our coaches and another 2 friends who also coach.
They are rarely around and don't talk to the coaches much either.

One coach did comment. (in his opinion) they see one kid do one good thing and then assume he is a good player and have no interest in understand the full scope of teams and consistant ability.

[Aegon]

I totally agree.
I try not to post unsolicited things on here so I asked our coaches and another 2 friends who also coach.
They are rarely around and don't talk to the coaches much either.

One coach did comment. (in his opinion) they see one kid do one good thing and then assume he is a good player and have no interest in understand the full scope of teams and consistant ability.

I've been at Speers point nearly every weekend and i wouldn't be able to tell you if a single northern rep has been wandering the grounds. If they do, they must do it incognito.

[plague]

No **** that

I might be on beer 15 today but I gonna call you on that

The NNSW guys are the weakest out there

FFS the last Australian NT player they produced was either Middleby or Zane FFS.

They have little credibility really in the grand scheme of things

its almost as if they realise that and are introducing a new program to try and make the youth system better.

[the_butcher]

No **** that

I might be on beer 15 today but I gonna call you on that

The NNSW guys are the weakest out there

FFS the last Australian NT player they produced was either Middleby or Zane FFS.

They have little credibility really in the grand scheme of things

NNSWF is the worst fed in the country, they wouldn't know their elbow from their ar$ehole.

[Negative Police]

its almost as if they realise that and are introducing a new program to try and make the youth system better.

Correct. The foremost plan is to get a better youth program in place. They are doing a better job at that.

Scouting for talent on the other hand, id like to see that.

I'd rlike to see our jets youths in the Sydney comp.

[MFKS]

Correct. The foremost plan is to get a better youth program in place. They are doing a better job at that.

Scouting for talent on the other hand, id like to see that.

I'd rlike to see our jets youths in the Sydney comp.

Should have put in to go when they restructured the NSW NPL to include Blue Aids Yoof and Red Aids Yoof into the set up but we didn't

Hopefully they might make this decision when the new SW Sydney franchise Yoof get fast tracked into it

[Aegon]

For the SAP 9's and 10's. Does anyone have any idea when the second half of the draw will be released? Seems a farce that the current draw is only relevant for another 11 days.

[dan]

7th of July it should be released by according to the current draw

[plague]

Our club stull hasnt had any communications from NNSW either.
Frustrating.


Also, looks like Sth Cardiff is in SAP this year with U/9's. Interesting as they didn't have teams last year.

Wonder if NNSW is opening it up to new clubs knowing that some clubs dont have the quality to provide 2 teams.

[Aegon]

Our club stull hasnt had any communications from NNSW either.
Frustrating.


Also, looks like Sth Cardiff is in SAP this year with U/9's. Interesting as they didn't have teams last year.

Wonder if NNSW is opening it up to new clubs knowing that some clubs dont have the quality to provide 2 teams.

South Cardiff are paired with Wallsend in the draw who both have one team. Adamstown and Singleton also dropped down to one team as well.
It begs the questions, will Wallsend and South Cardiff ever play each other? I don't think so.

From what I understand, several NL1 clubs last year were issued SAP licenses and didn't field a team. Since they didn't use them again this year I think they will forfeit those licenses?

I can't understand why clubs like Cooks Hill, Belswans, West Wallsend, etc aren't battling to field a team. They would be in a much better position at U13's to retain players they have already been training for a few years.

[plague]

South Cardiff are paired with Wallsend in the draw who both have one team. Adamstown and Singleton also dropped down to one team as well.
It begs the questions, will Wallsend and South Cardiff ever play each other? I don't think so.

From what I understand, several NL1 clubs last year were issued SAP licenses and didn't field a team. Since they didn't use them again this year I think they will forfeit those licenses?

I can't understand why clubs like Cooks Hill, Belswans, West Wallsend, etc aren't battling to field a team. They would be in a much better position at U13's to retain players they have already been training for a few years.

Yeah Cooks Hill always had good teams and good numbers in mini roos. I heard a few of them ended up at Magic SAP because they had nowhere to go.

[Aegon]

Yeah Cooks Hill always had good teams and good numbers in mini roos. I heard a few of them ended up at Magic SAP because they had nowhere to go.

Exactly, 2 friends of ours had/have kids at Cooks Hill.

One started in U9 SAP for Hamilton this season, the other will be trialling at Magic, Jaffas, Olympic, etc next season after this years U12 comp finishes. Not one person from cooks hill has chatted to this lad about playing U13's NL1 next year.

There isn't enough focus on developing and retaining kids prior to U13's for some clubs.

[plague]

Exactly, 2 friends of ours had/have kids at Cooks Hill.

One started in U9 SAP for Hamilton this season, the other will be trialling at Magic, Jaffas, Olympic, etc next season after this years U12 comp finishes. Not one person from cooks hill has chatted to this lad about playing U13's NL1 next year.

There isn't enough focus on developing and retaining kids prior to U13's for some clubs.

Yeah ive got a lot of sympathy for a lot of the clubs trying to get the best out of each individual kid. Cooks Hill always looked like they had soooo much going on in different areas and not enough help to cross every 't' and dot every 'i'. Thats not a knock on the club, because i dont know how any of them get it done.
Plague Jnrs club put it on the Mini Roos coaches to suggest to the players to try out. Plague Jnr was told by his coach in 8's that he should attend the trial and he did. But so did a lot of other kids (from his club and others), so the club did a good job getting the word out. At the same time Kahibah, with good numbers in miniroos, couldnt get anyone to even trial with them, let alone fill 2 squads. The only thing id suggest to your friends is they be a bit more proactive and ask the club people how little Johnny goes about trialling for 13's next year.
even at the biggest and best run clubs the lines of communication can break down pretty easily due to the sheer size of the job. they shouldnt take it as a knock that no one has spoken to them, they should take it as an opportunity to help the club get the best kids into these teams.

[Aegon]

Yeah ive got a lot of sympathy for a lot of the clubs trying to get the best out of each individual kid. Cooks Hill always looked like they had soooo much going on in different areas and not enough help to cross every 't' and dot every 'i'. Thats not a knock on the club, because i dont know how any of them get it done.
Plague Jnrs club put it on the Mini Roos coaches to suggest to the players to try out. Plague Jnr was told by his coach in 8's that he should attend the trial and he did. But so did a lot of other kids (from his club and others), so the club did a good job getting the word out. At the same time Kahibah, with good numbers in miniroos, couldnt get anyone to even trial with them, let alone fill 2 squads. The only thing id suggest to your friends is they be a bit more proactive and ask the club people how little Johnny goes about trialling for 13's next year.
even at the biggest and best run clubs the lines of communication can break down pretty easily due to the sheer size of the job. they shouldnt take it as a knock that no one has spoken to them, they should take it as an opportunity to help the club get the best kids into these teams.

I know the 2 trials Aegon Jr attended had 50 or 60+ kids in attendance. Some (NPL) clubs were well behind the 8 ball though and undertook trials in October/November and struggled to get 10-15 kids to show up.

One of the biggest difficulties I encountered was the lack of comms from clubs and association. If you didn't follow the clubs facebook pages you'd probably miss the trials altogether. I only knew about the program after being told by friends who's kids went through the old SAP programs that Aegon Jr should go for trials if he was good enough.

[The Real Truth]

Yeah ive got a lot of sympathy for a lot of the clubs trying to get the best out of each individual kid. Cooks Hill always looked like they had soooo much going on in different areas and not enough help to cross every 't' and dot every 'i'. Thats not a knock on the club, because i dont know how any of them get it done.
Plague Jnrs club put it on the Mini Roos coaches to suggest to the players to try out. Plague Jnr was told by his coach in 8's that he should attend the trial and he did. But so did a lot of other kids (from his club and others), so the club did a good job getting the word out. At the same time Kahibah, with good numbers in miniroos, couldnt get anyone to even trial with them, let alone fill 2 squads. The only thing id suggest to your friends is they be a bit more proactive and ask the club people how little Johnny goes about trialling for 13's next year.
even at the biggest and best run clubs the lines of communication can break down pretty easily due to the sheer size of the job. they shouldnt take it as a knock that no one has spoken to them, they should take it as an opportunity to help the club get the best kids into these teams.

Where did you hear about this with regards Kahibah?. It's completely incorrect.

[plague]

Where did you hear about this with regards Kahibah?. It's completely incorrect.

From a dad who took his kid to trial at Kahibah and got told they wouldn't be fielding teams because they couldn't get numbers.

[Aegon]

Interesting - NNSWF have released an updated TPP model for how it will look 2021 and beyond:

https://northernnswfootball.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Talented-Player-Pathways-Hunter-Region-Junior-and-Youth-Male.pdf

The emerging Jets 10's and 11's are gone and the Talent Support Program will run U10's - U16's.

Also interesting to see Mid North Coast included but not North Coast football. not sure whats going on or how that works logistically.

Also I am yet to see or hear about these Talent ID gala days?

[Aegon]

12years current SAP program. the Newcastle teams (both getting run by NNSWF) are getting towelled. Is this due to dilution of talent due to other Newcastle Football initiatives such as NET? Or a poor indictment of NNSWF coaching.

http://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?c=0-8304-0-522689-0&pool=1&a=LADDER

[Goatscheese]

Interesting - NNSWF have released an updated TPP model for how it will look 2021 and beyond:

https://northernnswfootball.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Talented-Player-Pathways-Hunter-Region-Junior-and-Youth-Male.pdf

The emerging Jets 10's and 11's are gone and the Talent Support Program will run U10's - U16's.

Also interesting to see Mid North Coast included but not North Coast football. not sure whats going on or how that works logistically.

Also I am yet to see or hear about these Talent ID gala days?

Will be interesting to see how it works, wonder how much talent and scouting is going to happen in the IDs U17-U12

Interesting to see that the NPL clubs (confirming that there will be an NPL 1&2 next year) have to have U12 now, wonder how NET will go not to mention the quality of ID A-Grade and below drop. Looks like more players taken out and being given false hope from U12

[Negative Police]

12years current SAP program. the Newcastle teams (both getting run by NNSWF) are getting towelled. Is this due to dilution of talent due to other Newcastle Football initiatives such as NET? Or a poor indictment of NNSWF coaching.

http://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?c=0-8304-0-522689-0&pool=1&a=LADDER

So Newcastle cant get 1 squad that is better than 3 Macquarie teams? Someone has dropped the ball massively.

[Negative Police]

Interesting - NNSWF have released an updated TPP model for how it will look 2021 and beyond:

https://northernnswfootball.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Talented-Player-Pathways-Hunter-Region-Junior-and-Youth-Male.pdf

The emerging Jets 10's and 11's are gone and the Talent Support Program will run U10's - U16's.

Also interesting to see Mid North Coast included but not North Coast football. not sure whats going on or how that works logistically.

Also I am yet to see or hear about these Talent ID gala days?

Is the TPS meant to be other talented players who didnt make the Jets?

[Negative Police]

Exactly, 2 friends of ours had/have kids at Cooks Hill.

One started in U9 SAP for Hamilton this season, the other will be trialling at Magic, Jaffas, Olympic, etc next season after this years U12 comp finishes. Not one person from cooks hill has chatted to this lad about playing U13's NL1 next year.

There isn't enough focus on developing and retaining kids prior to U13's for some clubs.

This is disappointing. NPL1 jnrs are going great. Cookers would get some strong squads if they entered. Im thinking ground space or volunteers could be the problem?

[Negative Police]

I've been at Speers point nearly every weekend and i wouldn't be able to tell you if a single northern rep has been wandering the grounds. If they do, they must do it incognito.

Well they arent short of cash
1618

2.5mill in wages. There must be someone walking around.
1619

[Aegon]

Will be interesting to see how it works, wonder how much talent and scouting is going to happen in the IDs U17-U12

Interesting to see that the NPL clubs (confirming that there will be an NPL 1&2 next year) have to have U12 now, wonder how NET will go not to mention the quality of ID A-Grade and below drop. Looks like more players taken out and being given false hope from U12

NET is being phased out next season.

Also, NPL don't have to just have 12's they are starting their juniors at U9's now. All the NPL clubs currently have SAP teams in 9's and 10's. Next year will be 9's, 10's & 11's and then it will reach 9's - 12's in 2021.

[Aegon]

Is the TPS meant to be other talented players who didnt make the Jets?

Yes, from U13's onwards it is the best 15 or so players from the NPL Youth competition.
In U10-U12's they'll probably just choose the best from the SAP program. I wonder if they'll run a larger group because most of these boys will probably end up in the Jets system.

[plague]

In U10-U12's they'll probably just choose the best from the SAP program. I wonder if they'll run a larger group because most of these boys will probably end up in the Jets system.

the TPS program they ran over summer was a bit on the fly from what i heard (3 dads who had their kids there - 2 got in). They were told the clubs were asked to bring the very best of their players down to trial for the team. They expected 2-4 kids per club, but some clubs turned up with 8 kids and more.
From there the squad was picked but they only chose attacking kids. all of them were the same sort of player. there were no defenders etc. the goalie that made it was consensus standout in the age group though. it ended up being made up of the majority of kids from the same 2 teams. which was kind of fine, but as for individual talent some of the selections were interesting.

the kid that missed out (who i think is a better player than the 2 that got picked) was told not to worry too much as it was just a summer program and that because they werent actually picking a 'team', by the time they do then pure defenders, midfielders etc would be given more of a look in.

so i dont think anyone needs to make an assumption out of whats been done so far (at that age group) but these kids were told that this is the next step to the Jets, so they need to make sure its setup soon to get the very best kids in there. id rather see the NNSW guys identifying talent through the SAP season and getting kids ready rather than relying on a one off trial here and there.

[Aegon]

the TPS program they ran over summer was a bit on the fly from what i heard (3 dads who had their kids there - 2 got in). They were told the clubs were asked to bring the very best of their players down to trial for the team. They expected 2-4 kids per club, but some clubs turned up with 8 kids and more.
From there the squad was picked but they only chose attacking kids. all of them were the same sort of player. there were no defenders etc. the goalie that made it was consensus standout in the age group though. it ended up being made up of the majority of kids from the same 2 teams. which was kind of fine, but as for individual talent some of the selections were interesting.

the kid that missed out (who i think is a better player than the 2 that got picked) was told not to worry too much as it was just a summer program and that because they werent actually picking a 'team', by the time they do then pure defenders, midfielders etc would be given more of a look in.

so i dont think anyone needs to make an assumption out of whats been done so far (at that age group) but these kids were told that this is the next step to the Jets, so they need to make sure its setup soon to get the very best kids in there. id rather see the NNSW guys identifying talent through the SAP season and getting kids ready rather than relying on a one off trial here and there.

Aren't they also running a TSP through winter? I thought it was extra training on top of what they do with SAP and NPL?

[Aegon]

the TPS program they ran over summer was a bit on the fly from what i heard (3 dads who had their kids there - 2 got in). They were told the clubs were asked to bring the very best of their players down to trial for the team. They expected 2-4 kids per club, but some clubs turned up with 8 kids and more.

I confirmed last night with a mum whos boy is in the U14's TSP. They run an extra night of training each monday during the regular season on top of what they do with their respective clubs.

[Negative Police]

I confirmed last night with a mum whos boy is in the U14's TSP. They run an extra night of training each monday during the regular season on top of what they do with their respective clubs.

How did he or the others get chosen? nnsw scouts or coaches suggesting trialists?

I expect they choose the rep teams from these lads?

Still no sign of season pt2 draw although on the original it does have 2 weeks off at the long weekend and on the 25th August.

[Negative Police]

NET is being phased out next season.

Also, NPL don't have to just have 12's they are starting their juniors at U9's now. All the NPL clubs currently have SAP teams in 9's and 10's. Next year will be 9's, 10's & 11's and then it will reach 9's - 12's in 2021.

Not sure if NET is finished next year. They have U10s running along side U10 SAP and still has 11s and 12s on a dedicated ground.

Richard H reckons a lot his lads would walk into top SAP teams. Biased for sure but see what happens.

[Aegon]

Not sure if NET is finished next year. They have U10s running along side U10 SAP and still has 11s and 12s on a dedicated ground.

Richard H reckons a lot his lads would walk into top SAP teams. Biased for sure but see what happens.

I may be wrong - what I was told was that the entire idea of the NET program was based on RH's concerns that the metro SAP program wasn't producing enough quality players to filter through to the NPL clubs. The change in SAP from the metro program to the premier club program is basically what RH wanted in the first place.
As RH is now the TD of two of the club SAP programs will he have enough time for both? Who knows?

[Aegon]

How did he or the others get chosen? nnsw scouts or coaches suggesting trialists?

I expect they choose the rep teams from these lads?

Still no sign of season pt2 draw although on the original it does have 2 weeks off at the long weekend and on the 25th August.

NNSW players watching the games and inviting boys to trial is what I was told.

[Aegon]

I received an email from the club this morning with the SAP draw update (or lack of update)

This week is round 11 and the last week of draw part 1.
The details provided states that the second part of the draw will be released on the 7th of June.
This means due to the lateness in providing part 2 they will miss games being scheduled on the 1st and 2nd of June.

That would have been bloody handy to know a while ago so parents could have planned for a weekend away or something.

Really poor organisation from NNSWF.

[plague]

This means due to the lateness in providing part 2 they will miss games being scheduled on the 1st and 2nd of June.

That would have been bloody handy to know a while ago so parents could have planned for a weekend away or something.

Really poor organisation from NNSWF.

At the start of the season our club was told that the weekend of 1/2 June and the following long weekend were mandated weeks off to give the kids a rest.
They had a similar break last year.
To be honest though the kids were less than impressed with the break as they were really enjoying their football and wanted to keep playing..

This one may be either on your club for not knowing, of NNSW for lack of communication with your club.

[Reds Forever]

At the start of the season our club was told that the weekend of 1/2 June and the following long weekend were mandated weeks off to give the kids a rest.
They had a similar break last year.
To be honest though the kids were less than impressed with the break as they were really enjoying their football and wanted to keep playing..

This one may be either on your club for not knowing, of NNSW for lack of communication with your club.

Yeah draw always had no games on weekends of 1/2 June and 8/9 June. Part 2 of draw to be released by 7th June was noted as well on draw. Unsure why such a break in middle of season. Could easily have done draw to end of 1/2 June and then break for long weekend.

[Negative Police]

Also a weekend off on Aug 24th 25th. Why? it isnt the community gf weekend

Also checking last years draw there wasnt 2 weeks off at rd11 or at all. finished a week earlier as well.

[Reds Forever]

Also a weekend off on Aug 24th 25th. Why? it isnt the community gf weekend

Also checking last years draw there wasnt 2 weeks off at rd11 or at all. finished a week earlier as well.

That weekend is set aside for the big gala day held at speers point each year. Zone SAP teams play it every year, unsure if Premier Clubs SAP have the same thing. U11 and u12 SAP only listed on Northern website.

[Aegon]

That weekend is set aside for the big gala day held at speers point each year. Zone SAP teams play it every year, unsure if Premier Clubs SAP have the same thing. U11 and u12 SAP only listed on Northern website.

Definitely haven't heard anything about any planned gala days for premier club SAP.

[Aegon]

At the start of the season our club was told that the weekend of 1/2 June and the following long weekend were mandated weeks off to give the kids a rest.
They had a similar break last year.
To be honest though the kids were less than impressed with the break as they were really enjoying their football and wanted to keep playing..

This one may be either on your club for not knowing, of NNSW for lack of communication with your club.


Yeah draw always had no games on weekends of 1/2 June and 8/9 June. Part 2 of draw to be released by 7th June was noted as well on draw. Unsure why such a break in middle of season. Could easily have done draw to end of 1/2 June and then break for long weekend.

I had to go back through all communications but ended up finding this.1620

Probably something that NNSWF relied on the clubs telling all the parents. Regardless, very strange to have a random 2 week gap.

[traffic light]

wrong thread

[Aegon]

I spent this morning at Magic park watching some excellent 9’s and 10’s SAP games today.

For all the grief Magic cop around the place they put on a great hub day. All games played in great spirit and they were excellent hosts.

[plague]

got a decent larf out at an SAP game on the weekend. A coach was being an absolute wanker to the ref, complaining about everything, which just encouraged the crowd to get in and have a dig too. During halftime the ref blew his whistle just to get the attention of the teams to line up for the 2nd half and the coach yells at him something along the lines of "the hooter hasnt gone yet you can wait" (i always assumed the hooter meant the game starts and that the teams should be lined up ready to go prior but may be wrong). so one team was out there ready to go and the other waited until the hooter went then walked out to line up. weird.

Anyway in amongst all his carry on the ref had to stop the game because his kids were getting confused with one of the rules. It turns out the bloke hadnt even taught them about restarts. the ref had to pause the game, explain the rule to the kids then help them along for the rest of the game. Suffice to say once the bloke realised he hadnt even explained the rules properly his abuse seemed to tone down a bit. it was embarrassing to watch but at least he shut up for a bit.

i felt sorry for the club to a)have such a dickhead representing them, and b) asking parents to pay a lot of money so their kids get that sort of tutoring.
honestly, by the time SAP gets to next year i hope NNSW has mandatory courses for coaches (do they already?) and if the coaches dont pass they just cant be involved. its just an enormous waste of parents money and soils the whole program.

suffice to say watching the kids was tough because they were lacking in a lot of the basic stuff (getting side on to present for the ball, turning out of trouble, any sort of footwork). these kids were pretty poor. there were def kids in there with potential, and they all had a crack, but you could tell he was coaching them poorly.(at one stage he repeatedly told his kids to "block the other teams runs"??????) Add to that being their 2nd year they are already way behind kids at the same age.

again though, NNSW is getting that rego money, but those poor kids are getting ripped off.

[plague]

I spent this morning at Magic park watching some excellent 9’s and 10’s SAP games today.

For all the grief Magic cop around the place they put on a great hub day. All games played in great spirit and they were excellent hosts.

mate, the chicken burger alone is the reason to turn up. agreed though, always a great day out there.

[Goatscheese]

got a decent larf out at an SAP game on the weekend. A coach was being an absolute wanker to the ref, complaining about everything, which just encouraged the crowd to get in and have a dig too. During halftime the ref blew his whistle just to get the attention of the teams to line up for the 2nd half and the coach yells at him something along the lines of "the hooter hasnt gone yet you can wait" (i always assumed the hooter meant the game starts and that the teams should be lined up ready to go prior but may be wrong). so one team was out there ready to go and the other waited until the hooter went then walked out to line up. weird.

Anyway in amongst all his carry on the ref had to stop the game because his kids were getting confused with one of the rules. It turns out the bloke hadnt even taught them about restarts. the ref had to pause the game, explain the rule to the kids then help them along for the rest of the game. Suffice to say once the bloke realised he hadnt even explained the rules properly his abuse seemed to tone down a bit. it was embarrassing to watch but at least he shut up for a bit.

i felt sorry for the club to a)have such a dickhead representing them, and b) asking parents to pay a lot of money so their kids get that sort of tutoring.
honestly, by the time SAP gets to next year i hope NNSW has mandatory courses for coaches (do they already?) and if the coaches dont pass they just cant be involved. its just an enormous waste of parents money and soils the whole program.

suffice to say watching the kids was tough because they were lacking in a lot of the basic stuff (getting side on to present for the ball, turning out of trouble, any sort of footwork). these kids were pretty poor. there were def kids in there with potential, and they all had a crack, but you could tell he was coaching them poorly.(at one stage he repeatedly told his kids to "block the other teams runs"??????) Add to that being their 2nd year they are already way behind kids at the same age.

again though, NNSW is getting that rego money, but those poor kids are getting ripped off.


What's the club?

They may have some form of requirements such as doing the SAP community course but that is automatic pass. After that there is the C-license, which could improve it but since it is near $2K to get it, is it worth it if you're coaching 8 year old kids?

[plague]

They may have some form of requirements such as doing the SAP community course but that is automatic pass. After that there is the C-license, which could improve it but since it is near $2K to get it, is it worth it if you're coaching 8 year old kids?

yeah for sure id not expect your average SAP coach to have to fork out that cash, but NNSW have got to have a better policy for people wanting to coach the 'best' kids at their age.
Plus, the incident i saw happened out at the facility, there were NNSW people there, and from what ive heard since the bloke is one of 2 in the program that have form in this area. those 2 blokes need to be sat down and schooled on the requirements and expectations of the program. i dont doubt they have a passion for it but this dude on the weekend just wanted to win. He couldnt handle the downside of the game. and worse still, laid the 'blame' for their poor play on the ref. thats not an attitude you want anywhere near kids.

[Aegon]

yeah for sure id not expect your average SAP coach to have to fork out that cash, but NNSW have got to have a better policy for people wanting to coach the 'best' kids at their age.
Plus, the incident i saw happened out at the facility, there were NNSW people there, and from what ive heard since the bloke is one of 2 in the program that have form in this area. those 2 blokes need to be sat down and schooled on the requirements and expectations of the program. i dont doubt they have a passion for it but this dude on the weekend just wanted to win. He couldnt handle the downside of the game. and worse still, laid the 'blame' for their poor play on the ref. thats not an attitude you want anywhere near kids.

I wouldn't rely on the northern reps on site to do much. I witnessed a similar incident on the grass fields the weekend before last. At one stage the game leader walked off and offered the coach the whistle or asked the bloke to walk off the field. There were complaints from the bench of inconsistency and bias which was really poor. Northern bloke ended up having to get off his phone for a min to intervene and ask everyone to be quiet and sit down and for the game leader to continue the game. Coach kept on talking crap through the whole game.
By rights Northern rep should have ejected him from the field but couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

[plague]

I wouldn't rely on the northern reps on site to do much. I witnessed a similar incident on the grass fields the weekend before last. At one stage the game leader walked off and offered the coach the whistle or asked the bloke to walk off the field. There were complaints from the bench of inconsistency and bias which was really poor. Northern bloke ended up having to get off his phone for a min to intervene and ask everyone to be quiet and sit down and for the game leader to continue the game. Coach kept on talking crap through the whole game.
By rights Northern rep should have ejected him from the field but couldn't be bothered with the hassle.

yeah look behaviour is one thing, and from experience blokes that are gonna bitch and moan about refs are never gonna change. its a coping mechanism for losers to shift blame from their own performance. Id love NNSW to institute standards/warnings/suspensions for dickheads like that but bitching and moaning about refs is 'allowed' across all levels of the game so why outlaw it only in U/10's?

but for a coach of a development squad now in its 2nd year to not know the rules? man, thats just a shit job by the coach, and someone needs to pull him up on it. what hope do the kids have when they are learning the damn rules from a volunteer ref mid way through a match?

[plague]

and look i dont agree with ref abuse, but when at the highest level in this country we are met with stupid shit eating giggles from the media about 'Musky being Musky' as Muscat tears strips off yet another 4th official we are always gonna have weekend warriors thinking that this is the way its done.

[Aegon]

What's the club?

They may have some form of requirements such as doing the SAP community course but that is automatic pass. After that there is the C-license, which could improve it but since it is near $2K to get it, is it worth it if you're coaching 8 year old kids?

I'm almost certain the requirement is for coaches at Aegon Jr's club to have their C license.

There are advertisements at the moment for a few of the clubs for coaches for next season already, nearly all of them are asking for the FFA "C" License as a minimum to be considered.

[Hunter403]

Where are the ads?

[Aegon]

Where are the ads?

Team facebook or web pages:

Edgy and CCB as per the below and I'm sure I saw another teams facebook page post similiar recently but was unable to find it.

https://www.charlestowncityblues.com/coaching-opportunities?fbclid=IwAR1H5Af3IGco_4KvpoVK_WnSzmP yTU-uQT3m9anjinMREws_K9emXSrygUg

http://www.edgewortheaglesfc.com.au/

[Goatscheese]

Team facebook or web pages:

Edgy and CCB as per the below and I'm sure I saw another teams facebook page post similiar recently but was unable to find it.

https://www.charlestowncityblues.com/coaching-opportunities?fbclid=IwAR1H5Af3IGco_4KvpoVK_WnSzmP yTU-uQT3m9anjinMREws_K9emXSrygUg

http://www.edgewortheaglesfc.com.au/

From Charlestown City's page "Coaches looking to work with the SAP age groups will hold the minimum requirement of a Skill Acquisition Certificate or a Game Training Certificate" Which is what we were talking about.

Edgeworth seem to appear to say both but we will see who they actually pick. It's one thing to say that's what they want but if they can't get anyone they will drop to someone with a community ticket for the SAP teams.

[Negative Police]

minimum i heard for now was the day course Skills Acq or Game training. That should change down the track as more coaches get higher training.

Maybe we need something in between the SAP course and the C license so that costs are lower but up-skilling is higher.

The last thing we need is some clubs having far superior coaching like mentioned above

[plague]

minimum i heard for now was the day course Skills Acq or Game training. That should change down the track as more coaches get higher training.

Maybe we need something in between the SAP course and the C license so that costs are lower but up-skilling is higher.

The last thing we need is some clubs having far superior coaching like mentioned above

to be fair though, the teams were supposed to be out at the Speers Pt facility at least bi-weekly this year so the NNSW blokes can watch over the coaches and kids to make sure the right stuff is being taught.

sadly, some clubs have taken it upon themselves to forego this session and stay away from that support structure. some clubs feel they dont need it, some feel they can get it better elsewhere.
which kind of goes away from a lot of what the SAP program was designed for, and it def seems to be that some clubs are emphasising 'winning' over the curriculum.

whos fault that is, im not sure. can only assume parents/coaches etc feel that for the money they pay, little Johnny winning lots of games is the minimum payoff.
and winning teams always get the attention of the scouts for the next level.

[Bremsstrahlung]

minimum i heard for now was the day course Skills Acq or Game training. That should change down the track as more coaches get higher training.

Maybe we need something in between the SAP course and the C license so that costs are lower but up-skilling is higher.

The last thing we need is some clubs having far superior coaching like mentioned above

Maybe I'm reading this a bit out of context, but why is "superior coaching" the last thing we need?

Superior Coaching at all levels is desirable. If I was a player, given a choice between two identical clubs (ignoring friendships/ 'loyalty'), I'd be picking the one with the more qualified coach. As a parent, I'm picking the one with a more qualified coach.

The only reason against it would be that it creates an uneven playing field... Which might be the kick start the other clubs need to bring up their standards.

The biggest issue here is, as you mention, the lack of a reasonably attainable but higher level coaching course. NNSWF should be reimbursing some of the costs to make this more achievable. And from what I've heard the C license is a pretty time consuming course (i think thats the multiple weekends one)

[Reds Forever]

Maybe I'm reading this a bit out of context, but why is "superior coaching" the last thing we need?

Superior Coaching at all levels is desirable. If I was a player, given a choice between two identical clubs (ignoring friendships/ 'loyalty'), I'd be picking the one with the more qualified coach. As a parent, I'm picking the one with a more qualified coach.

The only reason against it would be that it creates an uneven playing field... Which might be the kick start the other clubs need to bring up their standards.

The biggest issue here is, as you mention, the lack of a reasonably attainable but higher level coaching course. NNSWF should be reimbursing some of the costs to make this more achievable. And from what I've heard the C license is a pretty time consuming course (i think thats the multiple weekends one)

Yep, and NNSW only run it once a year. Generally around October when people are winding down from football and looking to take a break. Have wanted to do it last few years but always found myself unavailable on one of the weekends for various reasons such as school holidays or concerts.

Not to mention the cost.

[Negative Police]

Maybe I'm reading this a bit out of context, but why is "superior coaching" the last thing we need?

Yeah take the opposite view. Focus more on those who dont. That's quite a disadvantage.

Some u9s teams had no coach by January this year.Many teams started light training end of last year.

Which highlights your last point. Many younger SAP teams dont know who will be coaching when the trials happen so dont know which club to choose. Maybe the stronger teams from previous years could be a guide but not always.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Yeah take the opposite view. Focus more on those who dont. That's quite a disadvantage.

Some u9s teams had no coach by January this year.Many teams started light training end of last year.

Which highlights your last point. Many younger SAP teams dont know who will be coaching when the trials happen so dont know which club to choose. Maybe the stronger teams from previous years could be a guide but not always.

It is a disadvantage. But I don’t really see it as a bad thing. Its progress.
Maybe next year 2 clubs have highly qualified coaches, the year after maybe 3-4, then 5-6 etc. the standard is rising, which is only a good thing in the long run.
If a club sticks with relatively under qualified coaches, who is at fault? Who benefits from this?
The aim should be to continually raise the quality of our programs through better coaching, better facilities, better everything.

Am I missing something?

[Negative Police]

It is a disadvantage. But I don’t really see it as a bad thing. Its progress.
Maybe next year 2 clubs have highly qualified coaches, the year after maybe 3-4, then 5-6 etc. the standard is rising, which is only a good thing in the long run.
If a club sticks with relatively under qualified coaches, who is at fault? Who benefits from this?
The aim should be to continually raise the quality of our programs through better coaching, better facilities, better everything.

Am I missing something?

If your kid landed a spot at a club and an inexperienced coach is appointed late its a bad thing for this level. You dont want a year or 2 of little progress for the fees paid. The club needs to be a little more prepared.

That said the comp consistency is rising. There arent as many weak teams in the 9's this year compared to last.

Another good thing this year is the 1 team rule where you arent forced to have 2 teams per club. Still wanting to know why didnt Cooks Hill have an U9's team?

[Aegon]

That said the comp consistency is rising. There arent as many weak teams in the 9's this year compared to last.

Another good thing this year is the 1 team rule where you arent forced to have 2 teams per club. Still wanting to know why didnt Cooks Hill have an U9's team?

Couldn’t agree more.

Very few walkovers. Really happy to see some teams have gone with 1 team rather than forcing a second.

And with your last point, I know a couple of kids from cooks hill ended up at some of the stronger clubs but would have preferred staying with them if they ran a team.

[londonboy]

What are everyone's thoughts on SAP vs NET? Is the quality much better in SAP than NET? What are the benefits of NET over SAP, or visa versa?

[Aegon]

What are everyone's thoughts on SAP vs NET? Is the quality much better in SAP than NET? What are the benefits of NET over SAP, or visa versa?

NET is for Newcastle Football only. SAP is run by all NPL clubs + some NPL2 (NL1) clubs.

NET was U10's and U11's playing in a NET specific competition. The U12's NET team played in Interdistrict comps vs teams from all 3 hunter associations.

SAP is currently U9's and U10's but by 2021 will be U9's to U12's.

NET is co-ordinated by the Newcastle Football Technical Director. each team trains under his supervison at Wallarah Oval once a week and at their home base another night a week.

SAP is technically under NNSW following the FFA's national curriculum which focuses on teach the 4 core skills. First Touch, Striking the Ball, 1v1 & Running with the ball. Have a look at this as a reference: https://www.playfootball.com.au/sites/play/files/2018-08/FOOTBALL_Skill%20Acquisition%20Manual_A4_Web_Singl e%20Pages%5B1%5D.pdf

It's hard to compare them directly. However my son's experience with the SAP program has been very positive. For the most part they will play against better players in their games. they train twice a week and play 44 games over 22 rounds compared to 14 games at community and NET level.

Aegon Jr absolutely loves it.

Just keep in mind, every club runs trials for selection typically between September - November. They aren't advertised well, you'll have to follow the teams facebook and/or web pages to see when they will hold trials.

[plague]

It is a disadvantage. But I don’t really see it as a bad thing. Its progress.
Maybe next year 2 clubs have highly qualified coaches, the year after maybe 3-4, then 5-6 etc. the standard is rising, which is only a good thing in the long run.
If a club sticks with relatively under qualified coaches, who is at fault? Who benefits from this?
The aim should be to continually raise the quality of our programs through better coaching, better facilities, better everything.

Am I missing something?

yeah I'm def in the boat of getting the best coaches and making the 'lesser' teams improve. To be fair to NNSW, they provide the facilities, the education sessions and everything the coaches 'need' to get better. but its evident that a lot of the clubs arent using the support structure. That should be put back on the clubs and they should be held to the higher standard. the parents should also be putting pressure on the clubs to make sure their money is getting spent in the right areas.

Plague Jnrs coach pretty much goes to every extra coaching session, is very open to the NNSW jumping in and running drills at the facility, and its no surprise that his team is one of the better ones in the program. Plague Jnr would be in the lower couple of kids talent wise in his squad but his improvement this year has been quite astounding. its def down to the coach. theres def some really good kids in the system who arent getting good coaching at the moment. ive no doubt their parents will start club shopping in order to get them in a better program, which kind of sucks because id rather the clubs take responsibility and pull some of these coaches into line and get the kids back to doing what they should be doing, not just cutting corners in order to win games.

[plague]

What are everyone's thoughts on SAP vs NET? Is the quality much better in SAP than NET? What are the benefits of NET over SAP, or visa versa?

our club runs both programs, and during the trials the 'best' kids were picked for SAP and the ones that just missed out went into NET.
NET has more kids on the park and is on a bigger field. Our club def picked some kids who were good enough to play SAP, but they thought they would benefit from playing on the bigger field and having more space to work. SAP fields def require a bit more close control skills and the passing needs to be more precise.

one coach explained it as if you were looking for a team of wingers and backs you'd go to NET as those players who can run rapid with good control/crossing etc def benefit from the extra space. SAP def benefits the centre mids and technical strikers who need to work a bit more to get a shot away.

our club has made sure to explain very loudly and very clearly that SAP isnt 'better' than NET. All players picked are there for a reason and that everyone in every program is expected to represent the club to the set standards. which is brilliant because i def heard some parents at the trials comment they didnt want their kid playing NET.

over time all the kids will merge back into the NPL level and i doubt there will be a huge gap in quality by 14's esp when you need a diverse set of skills in your team by then. the best kids who have the best work ethic and motivation will be the ones who get there, development program or not.

[Aegon]

our club runs both programs, and during the trials the 'best' kids were picked for SAP and the ones that just missed out went into NET.


I think only 1, maybe 2 clubs run both the SAP and NET programs at 10's. I think it's up to the clubs if they want to run both but probably good that a lot don't. Gives some of the peripheral clubs like Kotara South, Mayfield, Stockton, etc the opportunity to benefit from direct access to NF's Technical Director and better training guidance as clubs like Magic, Olympic & Jaffas have chosen to only run SAP.

[Aegon]

I think the only other thing worth mentioning is that kids will probably have to be part of SAP to be eligible for selection for NNSWF's Talent Support Program.

[plague]

I think the only other thing worth mentioning is that kids will probably have to be part of SAP to be eligible for selection for NNSWF's Talent Support Program.

oh for sure, and I know NNSW are pitching SAP as the hot new thang. But just like always some kid is gonna pop up in 14's NPL having kicked around with his mates for the last 6 years and blow everyone away. Theres always these kids, and as long as clubs dont fall into the trap of thinking SAP is the 'only' thing, then as long as the kids end up being good, no one should care, or criticise where they came from. (im not saying you're being critical, moreso those parents thinking that SAP is the only show in town).

and from what we've heard from a few other clubs/officials etc they would love to be running more SAP/NET teams in the future (as well as other clubs who have wanted to be part of it). We have been told that there is no official stance on how many teams clubs have next year which isnt surprising considering NNSW dont know where everyone is playing in 2 weeks time yet.

no point pulling a hammy rushing these things ey?

[londonboy]

So, are NNSW Football supposed to oversee training of SAP teams? I read that SAP teams are supposed to train at Speers Point under Leo Bertos once per week. But BM don’t go there. And HO and LJ are overseen by the TD of Newcastle Football. So is the NNSW oversight really there?

And if BM, HO and LJ aren’t going to NNSW will their players get selected for the Talent Support Program?

[The Magician]

So, are NNSW Football supposed to oversee training of SAP teams? I read that SAP teams are supposed to train at Speers Point under Leo Bertos once per week. But BM don’t go there. And HO and LJ are overseen by the TD of Newcastle Football. So is the NNSW oversight really there?

And if BM, HO and LJ aren’t going to NNSW will their players get selected for the Talent Support Program?

Of course they would, Bertie would be an imbecile to not select players from the best teams.

[londonboy]

On what basis are they selected then? If NNSW never see them, do they rely on scouting? I’ve not seen many NNSW reps watching SAP games this season...

[plague]

So, are NNSW Football supposed to oversee training of SAP teams? I read that SAP teams are supposed to train at Speers Point under Leo Bertos once per week. But BM don’t go there. And HO and LJ are overseen by the TD of Newcastle Football. So is the NNSW oversight really there?

And if BM, HO and LJ aren’t going to NNSW will their players get selected for the Talent Support Program?

i think this is the point though.
The clubs are 'supposed' to be going there, and 'supposed' to be sticking to the NNSW program. Last year of all the main teams were using the facility once a week (the other session was at their own ground). The NNSW coaches were there assisting every team in all sessions.

Fast forward to this year and its clear a lot of the teams arent using the facility at all, and some teams have dropped back to every 2nd week. Reasons have varied, but its either "we dont need the NNSW coaches". "we need more room instead of these smallish courts" to "parents dont want to be taking the kids all the way out to Speers Pt every week".
personally, I wanted our clubt to be there every week, but majority ruled so we arent. I like the NNSW coaches getting involved. they did different drills, they were a different voice and they kept things on the same path.


its clear now the emphasis has been put on winning games. teams are set up, coached and instructed on field more about winning than they are technique and individual improvement. and thats not just the 'best' teams. lots of the teams that are getting flogged every week are showing no signs of individual improvement. it only takes 5 mins of listening to their coaches on the sidelines to see they dont care about anything other than winning. Seeing a kid take a left foot shot when warranted (and missing) is met with groans of disappointment instead of encouragement for doing the right thing.
Its about coaches approaching parents at the end of last year to get kids to come trial at their clubs, instead of maybe working harder with the kids they have.

i think its clear that the program is not panning out the way it was intended, and whether it is a good thing or not will probably not be found out in 10 years when we are bemoaning that there are no local kids coming through the Jets. i admire NNSW for trying something different, but they prob need to put their foot down to make sure its done 'their way' and not left for all the clubs to dictate.

again though, NNSW aint blameless here. their communication with the clubs esp with scheduling has been pretty poor. if they want everyone to buy in (and pay for it) they need to be way more organised.

Also, NNSW coaches are at the games, and TSP was kind of a trial based system so all those teams mentioned will get their kids in if they are good enough. they are still being seen.




Also, and apologies for the rant, but im going to give a big shout out to Olympic and Magic. They are portrayed on here by some in ways that i dont agree with, but their approach to SAP has been top notch. their teams are full of really skilled kids, their coaches are great to the kids and they 'seem' to have been really really loyal to the majority of the kids they started the program with last year. I havent seen much of Olympic this year, but id say this year there are a few other teams that are right up at the level of Magic and Olympic, and its been great to see. Rather than be jealous of teams like that, others have aspired to join them. i hear plenty of negative comments about those clubs on here, and you all prob have your reasons why. but from what ive seen, they dont have a magic wand they wave over players to make them better, they put in the effort and it brings results.

If every club had the same approach (and some do) its gonna bring on a higher level quality of kids for the future.

[londonboy]

What stops NNSW coaches going to clubs grounds? Clearly, there has been an agreement that certain clubs don’t need to attend sessions at Speers Point, but surely that doesn’t stop NNSW joining teams occasionally elsewhere? I can’t imagine the clubs would refuse to have them there. On the contrary in fact.

Parents at the likes of Olympic, Magic etc are paying for the use of Speers Point and have been sold on the NNSW coaching oversight. But their kids aren’t benefiting from either. Sure, the clubs will have decent coaching and presumably okay grounds, equipment etc, but they’ll be no consistency on the approaches. As you say, teams are coaching to win. Maybe more NNSW direct input would address this and put clubs on the right track?

[plague]

What stops NNSW coaches going to clubs grounds? Clearly, there has been an agreement that certain clubs don’t need to attend sessions at Speers Point, but surely that doesn’t stop NNSW joining teams occasionally elsewhere? I can’t imagine the clubs would refuse to have them there. On the contrary in fact.

Parents at the likes of Olympic, Magic etc are paying for the use of Speers Point and have been sold on the NNSW coaching oversight. But their kids aren’t benefiting from either. Sure, the clubs will have decent coaching and presumably okay grounds, equipment etc, but they’ll be no consistency on the approaches. As you say, teams are coaching to win. Maybe more NNSW direct input would address this and put clubs on the right track?


yeah all valid points, and i think the idea of NNSW coaches going to clubs grounds is a great idea. hopefully the boffins out there start to think more like this.

one thing that stood out that was said to me by the NNSW coach last year at the facility was that one of the reasons they wanted the kids out there was that they wanted the 9 year olds to see the Jets youth train and maybe get a little bit inspired to one day be there themselves. it was a small point but it wasnt insignificant. the fact they are thinking of these small things was very interesting.

me personally i just want my kid to improve, he loves football, he loves his club and he desperately wants to do better. as stated, hes not one of the top kids, but hes on the right trajectory. his team doesnt really coach to win, or talk tactics. its all a very basic setup but the kids individual talent has seen them hang with the top level of clubs in the program, and they've def improved since last year.
if he, and his teammates continue on that trajectory, by the time winning actually matters 13's onwards, he'll have seen enough of the good and bad to be able to handle everything that comes to him. if it means he remains a 1st team player for his club, and goes on to enjoy his football and learn the lessons that sport teaches us, then it will of all been worth it. if he does better than that, great, if he doesnt make it, so be it. ive seen so many kids already at this age turn to water due to the pressure put on them by coaches, parents and themselves. this is the age where they need to be doing it with a smile on their face, not fear in their stomachs. that cant continue and id hate to see good kids fall out of love with the game for avoidable reasons.

[londonboy]

Well said mate. The second kids stop enjoying it their development will go backwards. That’s why I feel a more competitive community comp would be beneficial - it would allow those talented kids who are not mentally ready for a higher pressure environment yet to thrive. It would be good to see some proper grading at U8 and U9 community level to give those kids the chance to compete against each other.

We’re fairly new the Newy. Are there good private coaching available? I’ve also been told about a futsal comp in the summer. Any thoughts on that? Are there other summer comps?

[Aegon]

On what basis are they selected then? If NNSW never see them, do they rely on scouting? I’ve not seen many NNSW reps watching SAP games this season...

I think they run trials by invitation. From what I was told with the 14's the clubs nominated players to trial. Not sure how much effort NNSWF are putting into watching games and players as i have never seen any of them do so. The ones that keep time for the games basically sit in their chairs while the games are on looking at their phones.