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The Baby Piglet
01-04-2014, 07:05 PM
I was on my way home from work today, and i decided to drop into a local club and watch the young kids training. They were running around laughing, smiling with not a worry in the world. It really brought a smile to my face.
However, while the kids seemed to be having a great deal of fun i don't think they were really developing any of the skills needed to progress to the next level. I do find this a bit alarming, don't get be wrong i fully understand that some of these kids ain't to worried about the next level and most of the coaches are just parents who've put their hand up when no one else would. Kudos to you for that. But i really think with the establishment of the new NPL competition, that the clubs in the premier division need to take a little responsibility along with NNSW. As they both have the "best" coaches working for them. Id really love to see some of the NPL coaches getting out once a fortnight or at least once a month, and help some of the coaches at the grassroots level. Maybe run a session ect ect ect.... I really think this would make a world of difference in the long run (over the next 5-10yrs)
Im interested in what other people involved in newcastle football think ?????

hawk
05-02-2016, 11:49 AM
fees for 5-7 yr olds


FFA Junior NRF 2016 $12.60 Football Federation Australia

Entry 5-7 $38.00 NNSWF - Newcastle Football

Entry Level (5-7 Years) $14.40 Northern NSW Football

Mini Roos Mixed U6-U7 $100.00 Club fees

ffa 12.60? to fund retarded olyroos campaigns?

nnsw and newcastle football taking a chunk

club gets $100. who's paying insurance?

5-7 yr old football should never equate to this

MFKS
05-02-2016, 12:39 PM
fees for 5-7 yr olds



ffa 12.60? to fund retarded olyroos campaigns?

nnsw and newcastle football taking a chunk

club gets $100. who's paying insurance?

5-7 yr old football should never equate to this

Maybe I am misreading this but are Northern double dipping here with two taxes on kids??

sammydog
05-02-2016, 02:34 PM
fees for 5-7 yr olds

ffa 12.60? to fund retarded olyroos campaigns?

nnsw and newcastle football taking a chunk

club gets $100. who's paying insurance?

5-7 yr old football should never equate to this

Our club takes $50 out of the rego of its junior players, not $100. Insurance comes from the affiliation.


Maybe I am misreading this but are Northern double dipping here with two taxes on kids??

Northern take one chunk, FFA a chunk, Macquarie/Newcastle a chunk, Council takes a chunk and the club adds in what it can without making the whole rego not too expensive.

hawk
05-02-2016, 03:26 PM
Our club takes $50 out of the rego of its junior players, not $100. Insurance comes from the affiliation.



Northern take one chunk, FFA a chunk, Macquarie/Newcastle a chunk, Council takes a chunk and the club adds in what it can without making the whole rego not too expensive.

i think the other offices are taking advantage. nsw is couldnt give a **** about littlies. Im guessing Newcastle $38 is insurance.

The clubs are the places that need the funds. Newcastle perm provides a crap load of stuff for the 5,6,7's including shin pads and a ball.

rego should be $50 at these ages

football_macigian23
05-02-2016, 05:47 PM
Insurance is included with the NNSW component of the fee.

See below email I was sent regarding Newcastle Perm sponsorship..

"With Regos ramping up and NNSWF advertising via the media and print you may/will notice that Entry Level players will only receive ‘a Ball’ for registering in 2016; due to a decision to redirect some sponsorship funds NNSWF will not be suppling Shin Pads this season.
Newcastle Football acknowledges that each player within the Entry Level group should be equipped to start their football season; Newcastle Football therefore has placed an order and will be ensuring that each Entry Level (6’s &7’s) player receives a pair of Shin Pads for 2016."

Goatscheese
05-02-2016, 05:57 PM
Our club takes $50 out of the rego of its junior players, not $100. Insurance comes from the affiliation.



Northern take one chunk, FFA a chunk, Macquarie/Newcastle a chunk, Council takes a chunk and the club adds in what it can without making the whole rego not too expensive.

What some people don't realise is that fields are also charged by councils for both training and game day, small amount for line marking, not sure if refs are paid, IIRC the mini-roos have the coaches on the field as game guiders so no fee. But depends on what else the club wants to lash out for the young ones and whatever sponsorship they get.

Bit rich for Northern to decide to take money away from their next batch of kids to fill their EJ program but good on NF for filling in the gap. Is Lake Macquarie and Hunter Valley doing the same?

Ker-Plunk
05-02-2016, 06:53 PM
wow , we better make sure Little Kickers are affiliated with an NPL club .

sammydog
05-02-2016, 07:52 PM
Bit rich for Northern to decide to take money away from their next batch of kids to fill their EJ program but good on NF for filling in the gap. Is Lake Macquarie and Hunter Valley doing the same?

Here is what Macquarie has advised its clubs;

"Northern NSW Football is about to begin their advertising for 2016. You will note in their “Entry Level” advertising, when you see it, that they are only stating that “Entry Level” players will be receiving a free Ball.

However, the good news is that Macquarie Football has sourced and will purchase Shin Pads for all “Entry Level” players. Feel free to advertise that you Club will be supplying a free ball and shin pads to all U/6 and U/7 players."

ranger
05-02-2016, 08:00 PM
Hunter Valley have done the same.

hawk
06-02-2016, 08:43 AM
costs $90 to sign up for afl and nrl in start up ages. something stinks here and im pointing the finger at our governing bodies.

Any idea what that redirection of sponsorship is Magician?

I feel we need more transparency to see where money is going.

Ill bet there is some big money going on stupid schemes or into coffers that are not showing any valuable return and its the parents, kids, clubs and volunteers that are suffering

sammydog
06-02-2016, 11:04 AM
$90 is cheap for kids sport and you can see why parents would look at that option, I wonder how much of that cheap rego is subsidised by those sports big TV deals?

Our U6's and U7's are $145 and the club itself gets very little from it. We have to take a small cut as we are aware we are competing with not only other clubs, but also other sports. Thats said, we (the sport at all levels) shouldn't be trying to make big dollars of the junior side of the sport.

football_macigian23
06-02-2016, 12:46 PM
costs $90 to sign up for afl and nrl in start up ages. something stinks here and im pointing the finger at our governing bodies.

Any idea what that redirection of sponsorship is Magician?

I feel we need more transparency to see where money is going.

Ill bet there is some big money going on stupid schemes or into coffers that are not showing any valuable return and its the parents, kids, clubs and volunteers that are suffering

no idea where the sponsorship is being redirected too.. they didnt say anything so who knows..

Goatscheese
06-02-2016, 12:51 PM
no idea where the sponsorship is being redirected too.. they didnt say anything so who knows..

Pretty sure we can say it's not being directed somewhere else in local football.

hawk
05-11-2016, 04:37 PM
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/nsw-youth-football-registration-fees-prompt-questions-about-club-funding-models-20161103-gsh8pd.html

An interesting but probably well known issue in junior football. Article is about Sydney juniors. Bit about AFL and League funding juniors from top down due to big tv money and football funding bottom up.

Maybe not a problem here until npl clubs and emerging jets

hawk
12-11-2016, 09:21 AM
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4284929/northern-says-clubs-playing-ball-over-fees/

Everything is fine with Newcastle Youth fees (elite and plebs) apparently. Sif Eland cares what parents pay

hawk
05-02-2017, 12:25 AM
Junior rego fees 2017

Lambton u/6 $120 u/8 $140
Garden Suburb u/6 $155 u/8 $175
Adamstown u/6 $160 u/8 $185
New Lambton (scabs) u/6 $215 u/8 $225

We can see which club is working real hard upgrading their facilities through parent money.

Why Blue
05-02-2017, 08:18 AM
Junior rego fees 2017

Lambton u/6 $120 u/8 $140
Garden Suburb u/6 $155 u/8 $175
Adamstown u/6 $160 u/8 $185
New Lambton (scabs) u/6 $215 u/8 $225

We can see which club is working real hard upgrading their facilities through parent money.

I get what you are saying and agree but the reality is that most parents will happily pay $$$ if they think it will enhance thier child's progress
Emerging Jets wouldn't exist if this wasn't true
I would imagine the $215 for U/6 is a fair hike over last years cost......would be interesting to see if they lose numbers or maybe grow .........

sammydog
05-02-2017, 11:22 AM
I get what you are saying and agree but the reality is that most parents will happily pay $$$ if they think it will enhance thier child's progress
Emerging Jets wouldn't exist if this wasn't true
I would imagine the $215 for U/6 is a fair hike over last years cost......would be interesting to see if they lose numbers or maybe grow .........

Here is the thing though, we regularly loose players at our club to NPL or SAP programs. For us as a community club, thats job done and we are happy to see the kids move onto these programs that are above what we cater for. We actually encourage our better kids to trial for elite programs.

But you don't have to start out in the development clubs in the mini-roos stages to get there. If anything its the parents that push the kids that way at a young age, which allows the clubs to charge the premium rego costs. I dont think you will see a drop in numbers at any of the clubs charging higher regos. Our registration so far hasn't seen movement of players away from these clubs.

Where we get hurt is there is not players returning to the club when they drop out of the elite programs. So we loose a few kids in an age group to these programs and numbers in our squads become very tight as there is limited movement of players in the opposite direction.


Junior rego fees 2017

Lambton u/6 $120 u/8 $140
Garden Suburb u/6 $155 u/8 $175
Adamstown u/6 $160 u/8 $185
New Lambton (scabs) u/6 $215 u/8 $225

We can see which club is working real hard upgrading their facilities through parent money.

When I have looked at what other clubs are charging, for the most part the community clubs are all pretty close in what they charge.

Then you see some clubs and think, how do they make it so cheap, and you see others where it is so high the money is either propping up first grade or subsidising facility upgrades. But from these figures, looking at say New Lambton, if the money is going to facilities, that is a huge pot of money there just on the increased rego. Good luck to them if the parents are willing to pay it, if not, there are plenty off clubs that would be happy to take on the extra kids.

Lambtons seems insanely low though. Thats pretty much break even with nothing coming to the club for a Macquarie Club (once you factor in FFA/NNSW/Macquarie/Council), If they have a sponsor subsidising kids regos then that is awesome.

We are working hard at Garden Suburb to upgrade our facilities, but the kids wont be paying for it through increased rego. But if another club has done their research and the members/parents are happy to pay an increased rego for ground/facility upgrades, then I dont see that as an issue either. I only see an issue if the Junior Rego is propping up a first grade squad or elite program.

ForeverRed
05-02-2017, 03:54 PM
I'd love to see a breakdown of the u6 cost, $215 is extreme to say the least

TauZero
06-02-2017, 08:49 AM
I'd love to see a breakdown of the u6 cost, $215 is extreme to say the least

New Lambton's Registration info (https://www.newlambtonfc.com/about2)

I agree that $215 is steep for Under 6, especially when neighbouring clubs are $50 cheaper. Interesting that the club takes the most from their youngest players.

Barry Dawson
06-02-2017, 08:58 AM
All community clubs are trying to keep up with the expectation of a society where:

* participation in football is at an all time high and the numbers of girls entering the sport is huge - its only going to get bigger
* people volunteering for their local club is forever diminishing - so clubs have to either flog a couple of die-hards or pay someone to mark lines.
* everybody wants a quality experience (this means different things to different people) for a little expense as possible
* there are not enough parks to go around - rugby league juniors is dying - yet still control an over-represented number of facilities
* local councils (esp. Newcastle) are spending next to zero on their facilities - leaving clubs to foot the bill or kids are playing on dust bowls (have heard some clubs have had to significantly increase fees due to new council lighting fees?)
* "development" of young players is needed to feed the high flying NPL - but no-one wants to pay for it


Do people honestly think that community clubs line their pockets with the hard-earned of their members? Transparency is the key. If it can be justified and people are prepared to pay it - fine.

PS - When shopping around for Club Fees - take the time to look beneath the fee cost. Its not always cheapest is best - you may still up for weekly fees or playing on something that closely resembles concrete

idontwannaplaywithhowey
06-02-2017, 03:54 PM
I just paid $160 for my 2 year old to do 6 weeks at little kickers.
When you look at bang for buck and what junior clubs are trying to offer it doesn't seem to be too ridiculous compared to that. As Barry says, nothing comes cheap and council aren't doing any upgrades, so clubs are footing the bill for everything.

Goatscheese
06-02-2017, 09:18 PM
I was on my way home from work today, and i decided to drop into a local club and watch the young kids training. They were running around laughing, smiling with not a worry in the world. It really brought a smile to my face.
However, while the kids seemed to be having a great deal of fun i don't think they were really developing any of the skills needed to progress to the next level. I do find this a bit alarming, don't get be wrong i fully understand that some of these kids ain't to worried about the next level and most of the coaches are just parents who've put their hand up when no one else would. Kudos to you for that. But i really think with the establishment of the new NPL competition, that the clubs in the premier division need to take a little responsibility along with NNSW. As they both have the "best" coaches working for them. Id really love to see some of the NPL coaches getting out once a fortnight or at least once a month, and help some of the coaches at the grassroots level. Maybe run a session ect ect ect.... I really think this would make a world of difference in the long run (over the next 5-10yrs)
Im interested in what other people involved in newcastle football think ?????

What age was the kids? 5-7 just let them have their fun with learning. If they are older more of a concern, however, seeing one training session for a bit doesn't mean the kids a doomed. The coach might just be letting them have a bit of a kick around with nothing in place after all it is only the start of Feb and if this is grassroots then their season won't start until the end of April.

Goatscheese
06-02-2017, 09:23 PM
Junior rego fees 2017

Lambton u/6 $120 u/8 $140
Garden Suburb u/6 $155 u/8 $175
Adamstown u/6 $160 u/8 $185
New Lambton (scabs) u/6 $215 u/8 $225

We can see which club is working real hard upgrading their facilities through parent money.

Broadmeadow is pretty high too around or higher than New Lambton.

Do New Lambton give anything with the rego? At least with Adamstown they are giving the kids almost everything they need (full training strips, match day strips and a few other items). Pf course with Lambton you might pay only $140 but then they charge you ref fees throughout the year so total paid is a lot higher.

Thomas477
06-02-2017, 10:06 PM
Broadmeadow is pretty high too around or higher than New Lambton.

Do New Lambton give anything with the rego? At least with Adamstown they are giving the kids almost everything they need (full training strips, match day strips and a few other items). Pf course with Lambton you might pay only $140 but then they charge you ref fees throughout the year so total paid is a lot higher.

Why do you need training strips if you're playing u/6s? Ffs.

Shinpads and a ball are given from the association. Shirts should be a club thing to save money, so all you need are socks, shorts and boots.

Goatscheese
06-02-2017, 10:49 PM
Why do you need training strips if you're playing u/6s? Ffs.

Shinpads and a ball are given from the association. Shirts should be a club thing to save money, so all you need are socks, shorts and boots.

The clothing is given away to all players not just Under 6 but I suppose since the Under 6 players train they also need a training strip. Not sure on the shirts thing you are on about but the socks and shorts are also given out but parents lap stuff like that up the more free items the better.

hawk
06-02-2017, 11:16 PM
I just paid $160 for my 2 year old to do 6 weeks at little kickers.
When you look at bang for buck and what junior clubs are trying to offer it doesn't seem to be too ridiculous compared to that. As Barry says, nothing comes cheap and council aren't doing any upgrades, so clubs are footing the bill for everything.

No.

Its parents like you who are willing to pay way over for sub junior skills that perpetuates and promotes ridiculous prices. With Reps I see theres a need for bigger $$. Maybe being part of NL you accept the higher prices IDK.

I do know that last year New Lambton had a good junior training system on an extra night. IF that is included it makes it a little better but all sight is lost for getting all young kids into round ball

sammydog
07-02-2017, 12:29 AM
we took shorts and socks out of our rego at Garden Suburb. Feedback from our parents was they would rather buy it when they need it rather than have it factored into rego and get a bunch of kit they don't need as last seasons is still OK. our kids get a free playing shirt every few seasons as we replace old kit. Training shirts are available cheap if kids want them, but most want to wear the shirts of their favourite clubs.

Ref fees aren't an issue for mini-Roos, but we factor them into the rest of our rego ages.

If another club has researched their parents though, and that's what the parents want, then the gear thing (shirts, socks, training shirt, playing shirt) makes sense. I can see why that's attractive to people, but our feedback was different.

idontwannaplaywithhowey
07-02-2017, 08:10 AM
No.

Its parents like you who are willing to pay way over for sub junior skills that perpetuates and promotes ridiculous prices. With Reps I see theres a need for bigger $$. Maybe being part of NL you accept the higher prices IDK.



Cheers for the critique bro, I've never had the 'its parents like you' call aimed at me before...I'll wear it as a badge of honour. Yea I'm willing to pay over the odds for little kickers, not for 'sub junior skills' (because I don't actually know what that means) but because my daughter presents with an interest in football and its an organised activity where she can meet other kids and learn social skills. Forced my son to do the same and he has no interest in football. Both of my kids are inadvertently forced to watch the Jets as well, that's what you should be critiquing me about.

In relation to the u/6 prices I see that there are some cheaper, some more expensive. As has been said before there may be extra benefits for the more expensive one (or maybe not-I'm not involved in that so I haven't explored it- when I do ill be straight on the Tenambit Sharks and Maitland Maggies websites. Even in my area there are options to choose from). It's up to parents to check it out and make a decision.

Apollo Creed
07-02-2017, 09:42 AM
Broadmeadow is pretty high too around or higher than New Lambton.

Do New Lambton give anything with the rego? At least with Adamstown they are giving the kids almost everything they need (full training strips, match day strips and a few other items). Pf course with Lambton you might pay only $140 but then they charge you ref fees throughout the year so total paid is a lot higher.

not sure y clubs are victimised here.
the federations and associations, are the winners, pocketing the monies, and not putting in. How much does the abundance of administration get paid at Newcastle, Hunter valley, Macquarie and NNSWF, im sure they dont get pay cuts, or look to reduce fees more than $5 like they do, or give free shin pads, Newcastle Perm, provide, or better still invest in facility upgrades.
Like barry said, if you want t improve facilities, and general experience, pay, if not go to clubs that are less, and then pay for , refs, trophies, presentation day, etc etc etc, and compare at the end.
The likes of clubs marketing there rego at $150, is compared to Jetstar, commit to a bargin then pay for everything afterwards,once your locked in.
football should cost $0, but we are dominated by cricket and rugby league in this town,

MonkeyKplunk
07-02-2017, 10:10 AM
not sure y clubs are victimised here.
the federations and associations, are the winners, pocketing the monies, and not putting in. How much does the abundance of administration get paid at Newcastle, Hunter valley, Macquarie and NNSWF, im sure they dont get pay cuts, or look to reduce fees more than $5 like they do, or give free shin pads, Newcastle Perm, provide, or better still invest in facility upgrades.
Like barry said, if you want t improve facilities, and general experience, pay, if not go to clubs that are less, and then pay for , refs, trophies, presentation day, etc etc etc, and compare at the end.
The likes of clubs marketing there rego at $150, is compared to Jetstar, commit to a bargin then pay for everything afterwards,once your locked in.
football should cost $0, but we are dominated by cricket and rugby league in this town,

You were making sense at the start of that reply, and then backed it up with an idiotic quote about cheaper clubs towards the end.

In Muswellbrook we are very much more in a League dominated area, and our pricing has to reflect that in order to have any chance of drawing and retaining players.
At $95 for U6/7's and $109 for U8-11 we're still dearer than our league counterparts, but thankfully we must be doing something right as we're the highest participated junior sport in the area.
Every year I still question exactly what we're paying NNSWF for. I have no problems paying FFA (as it's the insurance component) and HVFA (as they are the one's who directly help me in all areas every year), but I'm still bamboozled about what we pay the NNSWF portion for.

Nou Camp
07-02-2017, 11:45 AM
theres 3 layers of money being taken

Newcastle/Macquarie/Hunter take their cut
then NNSWF takes theirs and passes the remaining onto FFA

from some of the junior clubs ive spoken to theyre forking out a lot of money on electricity with council in recent time
not sure how council can allow some clubs to negotiate direct with electrical supplier but not let others do the same

onlooker
07-02-2017, 12:30 PM
In relation to the u/6 prices I see that there are some cheaper, some more expensive. As has been said before there may be extra benefits for the more expensive one (or maybe not-I'm not involved in that so I haven't explored it- when I do ill be straight on the Tenambit Sharks and Maitland Maggies websites. Even in my area there are options to choose from). It's up to parents to check it out and make a decision.

I just signed my girl up for the U/9's at Tenambit and she has been there all but last year since she was 5, cost me $180 and this year she got a free club jumper, Every year they look to change it up and your free item of clothing will be something different I guess so you don't have that stoke pile of shorts every year.

Plus no additional cost throughout out the year.

football_macigian23
07-02-2017, 09:32 PM
Broadmeadow is pretty high too around or higher than New Lambton.

Do New Lambton give anything with the rego? At least with Adamstown they are giving the kids almost everything they need (full training strips, match day strips and a few other items). Pf course with Lambton you might pay only $140 but then they charge you ref fees throughout the year so total paid is a lot higher.

Magic's breakdown is as follows:

FFA $11.45
NNSWF & Insurance $13.10
NF $34.54
GST $5.91

Adminsitration $16.67

Ground Hire/Lighting $62.50
Line Marking/grounds $18.75
Playing Equipment $8.33
Presentation $41.67
Actual Costed Fee $212.92
Proposed 2016 Rego Fee $215.00

Goatscheese
08-02-2017, 10:28 PM
Magic's breakdown is as follows:

FFA $11.45
NNSWF & Insurance $13.10
NF $34.54
GST $5.91

Adminsitration $16.67

Ground Hire/Lighting $62.50
Line Marking/grounds $18.75
Playing Equipment $8.33
Presentation $41.67
Actual Costed Fee $212.92
Proposed 2016 Rego Fee $215.00

So as I said pretty high too.

Bremsstrahlung
05-09-2017, 11:53 AM
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4900054/new-soccer-field-for-speers-point/?cs=306

Plans to convert the Macquarie Academy field to an all weather pitch.
Hopefully they plan ahead and make able to be slowly transformed it into a stadium type venue.
There is a natural hill on the side, this would make great concourse seating. Even just put "steps" in like at Kahibah juniors with possibility for proper seats with time.
Then gradually build stands around the field.


Would also be interested in the viability of a hybrid pitch. I have no idea about price and longevity and how it would fare in our climate.

MFKS
05-09-2017, 11:56 AM
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4900054/new-soccer-field-for-speers-point/?cs=306

Plans to convert the Macquarie Academy field to an all weather pitch.
Hopefully they plan ahead and make able to be slowly transformed it into a stadium type venue.
There is a natural hill on the side, this would make great concourse seating. Even just put "steps" in like at Kahibah juniors with possibility for proper seats with time.
Then gradually build stands around the field.


Would also be interested in the viability of a hybrid pitch. I have no idea about price and longevity and how it would fare in our climate.

Hopefully they do something with it to allow it to be the no 1 field for games and by that I mean actually provide seating areas for spectators and not the cluster **** the other 2 fields are

rawr.
05-09-2017, 11:59 AM
Hopefully they do something with it to allow it to be the no 1 field for games and by that I mean actually provide seating areas for spectators and not the cluster **** the other 2 fields are

Hopefully they leave it alone... large amount of injuries sustained on the synthetic pitches.
Or ask the players what they want, I'd like to keep an actual pitch out there.

Barry Dawson
05-09-2017, 12:37 PM
Isn't there a plan for NNSW to add a little something extra to all registrations next year - to go into a funding pool for clubs to apply and draw from for local ground improvements?

I hope funding for this new synthetic pitch is not coming from that pool - on the basis that it will assist the local football community

sammydog
05-09-2017, 01:54 PM
Isn't there a plan for NNSW to add a little something extra to all registrations next year - to go into a funding pool for clubs to apply and draw from for local ground improvements?

I hope funding for this new synthetic pitch is not coming from that pool - on the basis that it will assist the local football community

You can guarantee that funding wont trickle back down to the community clubs where the bulk of the kids play.

MFKS
05-09-2017, 02:42 PM
Isn't there a plan for NNSW to add a little something extra to all registrations next year - to go into a funding pool for clubs to apply and draw from for local ground improvements?

I hope funding for this new synthetic pitch is not coming from that pool - on the basis that it will assist the local football community

Isn't the facility at Speers Point a cash cow for Northern already??

I pretty certain I heard they were getting fat from the profits already

hawk
05-09-2017, 03:01 PM
greedy money grab. They all take a piece.

$225 for u/7's & 8's at New lambton. Yet they announce how how great they are with their big junior club. disgrace.

nrl and afl are much better organised in juniors

Jardelsimage
05-09-2017, 03:06 PM
Isn't the facility at Speers Point a cash cow for Northern already??

I pretty certain I heard they were getting fat from the profits already

Why don't they get control of lakes ground, do it up, hold GF's etc there, get bigger and fatter on all the money they will make, like they should have done in the first place.
Give lakes free use whilst there in the top grade.
win, win for all.
stops all the whinging about who has or where to play finals etc.

sammydog
05-09-2017, 04:33 PM
greedy money grab. They all take a piece.

$225 for u/7's & 8's at New lambton. Yet they announce how how great they are with their big junior club. disgrace.

nrl and afl are much better organised in juniors

But the parents pay it with out complaint.

Plenty of other clubs significantly cheaper in close proximity that are screaming for kids, but the parents stay. So they must see the value in it.

plague
05-09-2017, 04:44 PM
nrl and afl are much better organised in juniors

Can vouch for AFL.
Plague Jnr plays both football and AFL. Rego half the price, same level of facilities/coaching etc.

Possible to say grounds are better he plays on carpet at #1 vs a marked out side oval at his sockah ground.

Am not fussed paying for sockah as it's my sport BUT plenty of grumbling from the parents who's kids play both as to where they would rather spend the cash.

Again though, I don't think blame should be on individual clubs. They are ace and are run as well as they could be.

AFL gets a massive cash injection on juniors from NAB and controls the program.

All sockah needs to do is get the federations to hand over the power and get the double-eff-aye to fund and run it. There would have to be more than one big company out there interested in all those soccer juniors right?


Oh wait I forgot the bit about federations handing over the power.

Never mind carry on everything's fine no problem we're fine.

The Dunster
05-09-2017, 05:39 PM
The money from Junior fees and registration should not be subsidising senior football. Until that gets solved not much will change.
Not targeting individuals or clubs here but would any of the NPL players be aware of what contribution junior football makes to their salaries ?

The Anvil
06-09-2017, 09:58 AM
Those prices seem expensive for kids to play junior soccer.

What do clubs charge for rego in New FM or NPL for rego if you are in say uner 20's or 23's?

Its always been an issue and probably always will be but non-football people laugh at us when I tell them the fees.

hawk
06-09-2017, 02:08 PM
But the parents pay it with out complaint.

Plenty of other clubs significantly cheaper in close proximity that are screaming for kids, but the parents stay. So they must see the value in it.

the elitists think they are onto something sesh but its not. I believe in playing closest to home

Dodo14
07-09-2017, 09:39 AM
the elitists think they are onto something sesh but its not. I believe in playing closest to home

1400 members, including 430 female members, cant be too wrong, and there are many who would not call themselves "elitest"

I would say its the sign of a well run, well organised club, that provides quality coaching, and an inclusive environment, to all levels, from u6 through to Newfm.

The fees include full playing kit that is the kids at the end of the day, and centralised coaching programs for u6-u9's using programs developed by Clayton Zane, for all kids, not just those wanting to go into higher levels.

For those who want a pathway for development its there from u9 onwards.

No fees paid by kids in the junior club go towards paying players in first grade. Completely seperate budgets, accounts, and committees.

For full disclosure my kids have all played at New Lambton ,but do not anymore

hawk
07-09-2017, 10:06 AM
1400 members, including 430 female members, cant be too wrong, and there are many who would not call themselves "elitest"

I would say its the sign of a well run, well organised club, that provides quality coaching, and an inclusive environment, to all levels, from u6 through to Newfm.

The fees include full playing kit that is the kids at the end of the day, and centralised coaching programs for u6-u9's using programs developed by Clayton Zane, for all kids, not just those wanting to go into higher levels.

For those who want a pathway for development its there from u9 onwards.

No fees paid by kids in the junior club go towards paying players in first grade. Completely seperate budgets, accounts, and committees.

For full disclosure my kids have all played at New Lambton ,but do not anymore

Cant be wrong? Wake up to yourself you are part of this arrogance. Not sure what role at the club your from but from a parent some of the arrogance about building the big club doesnt sit well. Yes the development side is going well as is the way you actually get the large numbers all organised. But....

The prices for your juniors are one of the highest. Why? should the 1000's who pay decrease the costs. How do others clubs survive on $165 u/8's yearly fees for juniors?

That is a problem but keep the head in the sand, an overpriced megalopolis we dont want

check out some home truths. As expected from Broadmeadow
http://northernnswfootball.com.au/get-involved/registration-fees/

drop the costs you thieves

ForeverRed
07-09-2017, 10:20 AM
Wow, those fees are phenomenal, and why, that's ridiculous for 5 to 7 year old

Dodo14
07-09-2017, 10:32 AM
Not sure what role at the club your from but from a parent some of the arrogance about building the big club doesnt sit well. Yes the development side is going well as is the way you actually get the large numbers all organised. But....

The prices for your juniors are one of the highest. Why? should the 1000's who pay decrease the costs. How do others clubs survive on $165 u/8's yearly fees for juniors?
That is a problem but keep the head in the sand

check out some home truths champ
http://northernnswfootball.com.au/get-involved/registration-fees/



"Home Truths"???

New Lambton have never said that they were the cheapest, and acknowledge there are cheaper clubs in a close proximity!!? What arrogance about building the big club are you talking about? What the club has done is be very organised, led by a strong committee, with the whole focus on giving the members the best value for money experience that they can have. It has never been about wanting to be the biggest club, its all about providing a good experience for the kids. Th fact the junior club continued to grow this year, when participation numbers generally fell, despite having higher fees than most, shows that the community see the value that they get for those fees being acceptable.

The fees are broken down as part of the registration package so everyone knows where the money is going when they sign up. You don't have to agree with the size of the fee, but you equally dont have to play for the club and can go to the club that charges $165. Each to their own.

MonkeyKplunk
07-09-2017, 10:38 AM
How do others clubs survive on $165 u/8's yearly fees for juniors?

check out some home truths. As expected from Broadmeadow
http://northernnswfootball.com.au/get-involved/registration-fees/

We survive because we're realistic, and we recognise that participation by anyone who WANTS to play is a far greater asset to the game than making money.

What you'll also find is those clubs with the lowest fees will cater to children from lower socio-economic backgrounds, and will in fact give further discounts if not free registrations to some families who might not be able to otherwise afford to have their kids play organised team sports.

hawk
07-09-2017, 10:41 AM
"Home Truths"???

New Lambton have never said that they were the cheapest, and acknowledge there are cheaper clubs in a close proximity!!? What arrogance about building the big club are you talking about? What the club has done is be very organised, led by a strong committee, with the whole focus on giving the members the best value for money experience that they can have. It has never been about wanting to be the biggest club, its all about providing a good experience for the kids. Th fact the junior club continued to grow this year, when participation numbers generally fell, despite having higher fees than most, shows that the community see the value that they get for those fees being acceptable.

The fees are broken down as part of the registration package so everyone knows where the money is going when they sign up. You don't have to agree with the size of the fee, but you equally dont have to play for the club and can go to the club that charges $165. Each to their own.

Each to their own? What great way to answer a problem. Why should families leave when management is the problem? You leave and let someone else come in who is prepared to fix the problem

The arrogance like you of spouting how "big we are" and "cant be wrong" yet charging parents way overs for the "privilege". The training courses coast extra on top of your exorbitant rego. There is a high cost problem.

Dodo14
07-09-2017, 11:01 AM
Each to their own? What great way to answer a problem. Why should families leave when management is the problem? You leave and let someone else come in who is prepared to fix the problem

The arrogance like you of spouting how "big we are" and "cant be wrong" yet charging parents way overs for the "privilege". The training courses coast extra on top of your exorbitant rego. There is a high cost problem.

You say there is a problem, but parents are free to take their kids wherever they chose to. Yet more parents every year are attracted to New Lambton. They obviously feel that the fees are not exorbitant, and that they get good value for the money spent. The club does have multi-family member discounts and do make allowances for lower socio-economic families when asked.

You have your opinion and the parents of New Lambton FC have their own opinion.

hawk
07-09-2017, 11:41 AM
You say there is a problem, but parents are free to take their kids wherever they chose to. Yet more parents every year are attracted to New Lambton. They obviously feel that the fees are not exorbitant, and that they get good value for the money spent. The club does have multi-family member discounts and do make allowances for lower socio-economic families when asked.

You have your opinion and the parents of New Lambton FC have their own opinion.

Other parents are not so happy or didnt know the differences. Did you read the fee cost of all clubs in our area? You are the equal highest. There is no value.

Maybe put to parents to see if they would prefer to pay reasonable cost. I repeat families should not have to leave a local club due to reasons caused by committees.

Think we'll leave it there. Maybe this might be further discussed at the next meeting.

plague
07-09-2017, 11:56 AM
Plague Jnr plays for New Lambton. Rego bout the same as his prev club but def better 'value for money' than previous club (not a knock as his prev club was well run no dramas).

I think in the future kids gonna be torn between sports like AFL rather than other soccer clubs. That's where financial concerns will be highlighted.

Not sure a lot of parents highlighting rego fee discrepancies understand the massive cost council imposes for infrastructure. It's diabolical.

Am positive New Lambton has top 2 costs for lighting in Newy and the gap to 3rd is pretty huge.

Serious though I wish they saved the cash on the Jets run training though. It was pointless. But that's 1 parent so majority rules etc etc.

Kudos for trying it though.

Walker
07-09-2017, 01:14 PM
The one thing that can't be denied is,

Macquarie ave is $165 but average of NPL/NewFM is $208

Newcastle average is $147 but average of NPL/NewFM is $190

So it would certainly appear that these clubs need additional money to run their junior teams, were it goes is up to the parents, if they are happy the rest probably doesn't matter

Another quick one, why is Mid Nth Coast average $99 ?

I suspect local councils

Texas Ranger
07-09-2017, 02:01 PM
The problem with comparing Football rego fees with other sports - League Aussie Rules and Cricket - is that they are owned and prioritised by our major national media outlets, providing massive revenue streams. Unfortunately this is very much to the detriment of our truly international game. The promotion of these other sports and publicity garnered for their players has come at a big cost to Football. Regardless of how big the fish may seem, League and Rules players in particular will always only be swimming in a tiny pond. But propped up by the media that has no real interest in our international success, they will continue to thrive at domestic and grassroot levels.
Given the same funding level and media exposure, Football would kill off the other sports in due course. But self interest won't let that happen.

plague
07-09-2017, 02:09 PM
The problem with comparing Football rego fees with other sports - League Aussie Rules and Cricket - is that they are owned and prioritised by our major national media outlets, providing massive revenue streams.


AFL junior rego is subsidised by NAB sponsorship.
FFA have every right in the world to have a similar structure.

But they dont.

as for this continuous tin foil bullshit about the media hating sockah, tell me how the media are causing FIFA to intervene in the FFA board restructure issue?

The dopes at FFA can't even set up a head office, yet you think those darn News Ltd journos are to blame.

Ok.

Texas Ranger
07-09-2017, 02:45 PM
AFL junior rego is subsidised by NAB sponsorship.
FFA have every right in the world to have a similar structure.

But they dont.

as for this continuous tin foil bullshit about the media hating sockah, tell me how the media are causing FIFA to intervene in the FFA board restructure issue?

The dopes at FFA can't even set up a head office, yet you think those darn News Ltd journos are to blame.

Ok.
So the $Billion+ tv rights don't filter down to grassroots?? That's news to me. NAB might be one sponsor, but hardly the biggest. The AFL via their media winfall are by far the biggest.

MFKS
07-09-2017, 04:00 PM
So the $Billion+ tv rights don't filter down to grassroots?? That's news to me. NAB might be one sponsor, but hardly the biggest. The AFL via their media winfall are by far the biggest.

Hey if a billion $$ business like NAB can see value in sponsoring junior aerial ping pong as they feel there is value in targeting a relationship with the young kids playing it and their parents then the real question is why the ****tards at FFA who have countless more juniors across the nation are not on a similar if not better wicket

????

People say there no money in soccer in this country

They wrong it just goes in the wrong places with people leaching off it for a quid

plague
07-09-2017, 04:06 PM
So the $Billion+ tv rights don't filter down to grassroots?? That's news to me. NAB might be one sponsor, but hardly the biggest. The AFL via their media winfall are by far the biggest.

So it works out that $360m cash per year of which they give $240m to clubs (11/18 clubs running at a loss).

You obviously own a computer so I'll let you break down where the other $120m goes. You are the one trying to prove the point remember.

I'll help though. NAB specifically funds junior development, which subsidises junior regos.

That's my point.

The FFA does not have a corresponding agreement despite being in charge of what everyone keeps telling me is the biggest and bestest sport eva.

Instead of continually deflecting to other sports as somehow having it easier or better or whatever look to the custodians of the game in our country who can't seem to even make their own beds at the moment.

plague
07-09-2017, 04:10 PM
The only way any structure will come to the game is the abolition of the individual federations.

But for some reason we keep getting told these federations are 'powerful'.

(Rightly or wrongly) the government is always the most powerful, it's always the issue whether that power is ever used to do what's right for the people, or what's right for the government.

So someone explain to me how these federations hold any power at all?

Texas Ranger
07-09-2017, 04:13 PM
FFA doesn't have corresponding media support and promotional value. Hence not as easy to get corporate sponsorship. Simple to understand, but agreed that FFA could and should be doing more.

plague
07-09-2017, 04:37 PM
FFA doesn't have corresponding media support and promotional value. Hence not as easy to get corporate sponsorship. Simple to understand, but agreed that FFA could and should be doing more.

So the AFL started like that?
Nope.

They been playing soccer in Australia same amount of time than AFL yeah?

In that time one comp seems to have built itself something pretty big the other, not so much.

FFA have the biggest sporting brand in the world to work with and still cock it up.

Media gives sport the money because they have a product worth investing in.
You seem to think AFL won the lotto or something.

Texas Ranger
07-09-2017, 06:17 PM
Media own it. Can't you get it? Soccer perhaps should sell its soul.

plague
07-09-2017, 06:23 PM
Can't you get it? Soccer perhaps should sell its soul.


Oh man oh man oh man.

I can't do this anymore.

Good luck with everything.

Cheers,
Plague.

Texas Ranger
07-09-2017, 07:51 PM
Thank goodness. You seemed to really let it upset you.

MFKS
07-09-2017, 08:36 PM
The only way any structure will come to the game is the abolition of the individual federations.

But for some reason we keep getting told these federations are 'powerful'.

(Rightly or wrongly) the government is always the most powerful, it's always the issue whether that power is ever used to do what's right for the people, or what's right for the government.

So someone explain to me how these federations hold any power at all?

They hold power as when The guberment gave Lowy free reign with Soccer Australia he didn't abolish them like he should have

As a result the clowns on the state feds get votes on how FFA operates

Currently these clowns have 9 votes
The HAL clubs 1 between them

You think they going to want to give that up??

This hole thing with FFA and FIFA is interesting

On one hand they need to give up some power to the club's
But they also need to reign the state feds powers in

There is most of the problem in relation to FIFA reform and why it going slow

plague
08-09-2017, 06:43 PM
its all ok now guys i know my SAP from my NET its all clear as mud etc etc etc.

MonkeyKplunk
09-09-2017, 05:19 PM
Plague speaks some definite truths in regards to sponsorship of junior sports.

The best we can muster is Aldi being naming sponsors for MiniRoos, and even that doesn't translate to registration cost savings for entry level players. The most we get is a size 3 ball for each new player.

plague
09-09-2017, 05:51 PM
Does anyone's kids play/have played that Milo cricket?
Any insight into costs etc?

MonkeyKplunk
11-09-2017, 07:29 AM
Quick check online shows me that the clubs closest to me (Muswellbrook, Scone, Denman) all charge $75 for the Milo In2Cricket, and Singleton is $100 for the same comp and $100 for the Milo T20Blast

Wilso8948
11-09-2017, 11:38 AM
FYI Stocko 6/7s is $70. Don't think they pay any fees throughout the year. Highly likely includes some freebies too.

plague
11-09-2017, 11:39 AM
FYI Stocko 6/7s is $70. Don't think they pay any fees throughout the year. Highly likely includes some freebies too.

Football? $70? Geez Louise that seems weird.

Wilso8948
11-09-2017, 11:50 AM
Football? $70? Geez Louise that seems weird.

Yep. Seen huge growth in participation over the past few years in that age bracket.

sammydog
11-09-2017, 12:55 PM
Do you know what it is for U8/U9?

Just curious if some clubs are taking a strategic hit in the U6/7 to get kids in the door?

Stockton is well placed though as kids in the area are unlikely to play any another club.

Wilso8948
11-09-2017, 01:24 PM
Do you know what it is for U8/U9?

Just curious if some clubs are taking a strategic hit in the U6/7 to get kids in the door?

Stockton is well placed though as kids in the area are unlikely to play any another club.
Others would be better equipped to answer. Always limited on population though. Only so many illegal immigrants we can fit on the peninsula.

MFKS
11-09-2017, 01:49 PM
Do you know what it is for U8/U9?

Just curious if some clubs are taking a strategic hit in the U6/7 to get kids in the door?

Stockton is well placed though as kids in the area are unlikely to play any another club.

Getting them in early obviously makes sense but the idea is wasted if they ain't making it interesting enough for kids in the 10-18 range

Far too many drop out after a few years in the game and never return

Maybe a strategy of all juniors up to 18 years at a cheap rate is needed

sammydog
11-09-2017, 02:53 PM
Getting them in early obviously makes sense but the idea is wasted if they ain't making it interesting enough for kids in the 10-18 range

Far too many drop out after a few years in the game and never return

Maybe a strategy of all juniors up to 18 years at a cheap rate is needed

the changes to the Talented Player Pathway will make it interesting for smaller clubs.

We already find that with one team in each age group, when you reach the U12's and up the loss of 2-3 players to SAP or NPL can spell the end of a team as there is no return flow of players. We always work with surrounding clubs to find kids new homes, but ultimately a lot of kids just drop out rather than change clubs.

When the TPP drops to U9's and every NPL and NL1 club its running a program, there could be a lot of teams that aren't viable at lower ages. My fear is kids left behind drop out and stop playing.

I agree with you though on making it more interesting for kids in the U10-18 range. We have been trying to in the last few seasons make the linkage from our juniors into the Zone League a lot more obvious and having the older kids train with the ZL squads. What we are finding hard is that, even though there are kids that are easily good enough to come through, if their team folds before the U18's, none of them flow through. We charged $215 for the U17/18 this season, of which the club takes $50 and none of the players ever raise $$$ as an issue for them. The reasons for the teams folding are always the same. A few players leave to pursue higher grades (which we encourage) and new players aren't around to fill the void so the team folds. Some players find a new club, the rest just stop playing.

We are working to address this, but at the older ages the rego seems to be the least of the issue.

rolo
11-09-2017, 05:04 PM
Do you know what it is for U8/U9?

Just curious if some clubs are taking a strategic hit in the U6/7 to get kids in the door?

Stockton is well placed though as kids in the area are unlikely to play any another club.

6-7 $70
8-11 $100
12-14 $150
15-18 $180
Adults $300

We work very hard to keep rego fees at a minimum on the peninsula. Fees are what make it tough when we compete against league in Stocko where rego is $50.
We have made a conscious effort to reduce fees and increase numbers for our 5 year plan which we are 2 years into.
We can see the progress already with the club growing from 180ish in 2015 to 320 in the season gone. Our biggest growth areas being the SSF especially in Girls only teams. Something we are very proud of!

hawk
11-09-2017, 10:01 PM
6-7 $70
8-11 $100
12-14 $150
15-18 $180
Adults $300

We work very hard to keep rego fees at a minimum on the peninsula. Fees are what make it tough when we compete against league in Stocko where rego is $50.
We have made a conscious effort to reduce fees and increase numbers for our 5 year plan which we are 2 years into.
We can see the progress already with the club growing from 180ish in 2015 to 320 in the season gone. Our biggest growth areas being the SSF especially in Girls only teams. Something we are very proud of!

Well done. This is what I think is most important for growing the game at junior level and consequently seniors.

If you do get much larger numbers would you have to increase fees due to using more resources?

sammydog
11-09-2017, 10:12 PM
Well done. This is what I think is most important for growing the game at junior level and consequently seniors.

If you do get much larger numbers would you have to increase fees due to using more resources?

It's a balancing act though.

I tip my hat to Stockton who have been able to drop their fees that low, but it is dropping them below the base rate from the associations (at least in Macquarie it is). We cut it fine with budget as it is and taking a hit to lower the regos as much as they have would have impacts elsewhere, like our program to improve the pitches.

I'll be working hard this off season to drop ours, but you have to be sustainable doing it (not saying Stockton aren't). The kids are the future, but as MFKS has posted, the U12 tomU18 is a big issue as well.

Ive got to say though, even $150 for 14 games (plus trials) including coaching is actually cheap to other activities. It's just the highly subsidised cricket, AFL and League that have us questioning it.

sammydog
11-09-2017, 10:15 PM
Actually, the interesting thing here for me is, why is it the clubs scrambling to cut costs and subsidise rego?

Shouldn't that be FFA and the federations taking the hit, not clubs doing their best to make ends meet?

plague
11-09-2017, 11:18 PM
Actually, the interesting thing here for me is, why is it the clubs scrambling to cut costs and subsidise rego?

Shouldn't that be FFA and the federations taking the hit, not clubs doing their best to make ends meet?

well this circles back to one of the original points as to how the FFA cant get a corporate on board to do exactly that.
especially with by far the biggest 'customer' base to lean in to.

Ozzy sockah at its best.

plague
11-09-2017, 11:19 PM
We work very hard to keep rego fees at a minimum on the peninsula. Fees are what make it tough when we compete against league in Stocko where rego is $50.
We have made a conscious effort to reduce fees and increase numbers for our 5 year plan which we are 2 years into.
We can see the progress already with the club growing from 180ish in 2015 to 320 in the season gone. Our biggest growth areas being the SSF especially in Girls only teams. Something we are very proud of!

this is dope.
well in to everyone at the club.
hope bizness keeps booming for you all.

rolo
12-09-2017, 06:38 AM
Well done. This is what I think is most important for growing the game at junior level and consequently seniors.

If you do get much larger numbers would you have to increase fees due to using more resources?

We aren't silly enough to operate below costs. These fees cover the association registration fees, referees fees, playing gear, some maintenance costs for the fields and a few other things. We just work hard off the field to make sure we have enough financial resources in terms of a well functioning canteen, great fundraisers and sponsorship.
Just goes to show how much some clubs are ripping kids (or parents) off in terms of costing. There's no way some of the prices I've seen could be justified regardless of how much gear they get.
Each to their own I guess. We are just very proud of where we have come so far and plan to go. And the fact that we are one of the largest growth clubs in the NNSW makes me think that we are on the right track.
Thanks for the support though fellas! Appreciate it!

rolo
12-09-2017, 06:41 AM
Actually, the interesting thing here for me is, why is it the clubs scrambling to cut costs and subsidise rego?

Shouldn't that be FFA and the federations taking the hit, not clubs doing their best to make ends meet?

Hear hear to that. Shouldn't be up to clubs to be scraping the barrel to cover costs so fees can be low. The assistance should come from above as it does with other sports!

The Magician
12-09-2017, 09:35 AM
We aren't silly enough to operate below costs. These fees cover the association registration fees, referees fees, playing gear, some maintenance costs for the fields and a few other things. We just work hard off the field to make sure we have enough financial resources in terms of a well functioning canteen, great fundraisers and sponsorship.
Just goes to show how much some clubs are ripping kids (or parents) off in terms of costing. There's no way some of the prices I've seen could be justified regardless of how much gear they get.
Each to their own I guess. We are just very proud of where we have come so far and plan to go. And the fact that we are one of the largest growth clubs in the NNSW makes me think that we are on the right track.
Thanks for the support though fellas! Appreciate it!

The market supports higher fees, by your own admission your fee structure handicaps your clubs ability to invest in your capital for the future. It amuses me that clubs are hell bent on being the cheapest club to play for, and that's fantastic... But whilst your cheering over the $150 you collect in rego for those 12-14 year olds... How many of those players at your clubs are getting extra training at your Jobe Wheelhouses', Thompsons', etc, training camps? Where they charge $300 for a 3 day training camp. And these training camps etc are popping up everywhere and there are so many of them now. So whilst clubs collect peanuts, private academies are collecting the cash by the sack full, whilst clubs complain about the burden on their volunteers. And what investment in capital, facilities etc are these academies providing for the future?

plague
12-09-2017, 10:04 AM
Oh I think that can be answered in remembering there's 2 distinct groups of people playing football.

One group of kids want to strive for something more, play rep and follow the dream.

The other group see it as a social event that teaches them about teamwork, gives them exercise and gives parents a reason to gossip on the sidelines.

Both groups 'should' be as important as each other, not to every club, but hopefully there's room to keep kids interested and enjoying themselves.

It's also interesting as our* club is trying to do 'both', but it's already presented it's own problems.







* meaning the club Plague Jnr plays for, I'm not involved with the club.

MFKS
12-09-2017, 11:00 AM
The market supports higher fees, by your own admission your fee structure handicaps your clubs ability to invest in your capital for the future. It amuses me that clubs are hell bent on being the cheapest club to play for, and that's fantastic... But whilst your cheering over the $150 you collect in rego for those 12-14 year olds... How many of those players at your clubs are getting extra training at your Jobe Wheelhouses', Thompsons', etc, training camps? Where they charge $300 for a 3 day training camp. And these training camps etc are popping up everywhere and there are so many of them now. So whilst clubs collect peanuts, private academies are collecting the cash by the sack full, whilst clubs complain about the burden on their volunteers. And what investment in capital, facilities etc are these academies providing for the future?

Yeah but that an area where the FFA should be really clamping down on

Any tom dick and Harry can start up an academy and charge what they want

Let's also be honest there many of these out there where people making a full time living from and not just a bit of cash as cream on the top

Many of these have very iffy credentials too

If the FFA had coaching academies available at half the price then you currently do then you kill 85% these businesses over night

They are only filling a niche as the current set up from the FFA is failing to provide for

MonkeyKplunk
12-09-2017, 04:42 PM
6-7 $70
8-11 $100
12-14 $150
15-18 $180
Adults $300

We work very hard to keep rego fees at a minimum on the peninsula. Fees are what make it tough when we compete against league in Stocko where rego is $50.
We have made a conscious effort to reduce fees and increase numbers for our 5 year plan which we are 2 years into.
We can see the progress already with the club growing from 180ish in 2015 to 320 in the season gone. Our biggest growth areas being the SSF especially in Girls only teams. Something we are very proud of!

Well done to Stockton.
We're actively trying to do much the same at the moment in the Valley.
Our plan is to try and pull in at least 1 more big sponsor specifically to help lower registration fees for all juniors, and help fund further skill development among players and coaches.

Muswellbrook is already the biggest Junior sporting club in the Upper Hunter, and we'd love to get back to the numbers we used to have. Unfortunately it can be hard when league is almost half the price for rego, and they get buckets of money from CRL to provide clothing and uniforms for junior players.
Matching these kinds of deals is a real struggle without active help from the Associations that should be helping all clubs.

hawk
12-09-2017, 06:02 PM
Actually, the interesting thing here for me is, why is it the clubs scrambling to cut costs and subsidize rego?
Shouldn't that be FFA and the federations taking the hit, not clubs doing their best to make ends meet?

Note how FFA slugs juniors instead of giving. leeches

Yes. FFa, northern and Newcastle all taking a chunk of what isnt theirs yet. Hands off junior $$ even Allage shouldnt be slugged. Their corporate support or management should get off their ass and hit the streets for support


Oh I think that can be answered in remembering there's 2 distinct groups of people playing football.
One group of kids want to strive for something more, play rep and follow the dream.

I can see where junior reps is an area where rego can go higher espesh if we are investing in big coaches and more training time etc but the other grades should be rock bottom.
I'd have no probs in putting $ up for other kids reg if it was like Stockos.

plague
12-09-2017, 07:58 PM
I can see where junior reps is an area where rego can go higher espesh if we are investing in big coaches and more training time etc but the other grades should be rock bottom.


At Plague jnrs club they are estimating SAP program will be $500ish vs $250 for other grades.

As per your point, the SAP program goes 30 weeks 2 nights training so the 'value' per training and game is equivalent.

It's certainly been explained well by the club which was cool.

EH9
13-09-2017, 08:00 AM
Just a thought, perhaps both of the Rugby codes and AFL heavily subside rego and throw merchandise at the kids because they are on struggle street and are desperate to get players. Not to mention the flagged risks of serious injuries etc. Football is not suffering from these same issues.

A mate of mine always puts rego costs for young footballers into good perspective. If you had your kid in dance/piano etc and you sent them along every week you would end up paying a very substantial amount of money. We are probably not too bad value at that rate.

MFKS
13-09-2017, 02:34 PM
Just a thought, perhaps both of the Rugby codes and AFL heavily subside rego and throw merchandise at the kids because they are on struggle street and are desperate to get players. Not to mention the flagged risks of serious injuries etc. Football is not suffering from these same issues.

A mate of mine always puts rego costs for young footballers into good perspective. If you had your kid in dance/piano etc and you sent them along every week you would end up paying a very substantial amount of money. We are probably not too bad value at that rate.

No that argument is flawed

They are actually trying to recruit kids at a young age by keeping costs low to get them in the door

The cocksuckers at FFA / NNSW etc are just too lazy to get off their arse and keep costs down

The opportunity is there and it our code that pays the price as these guys rest on their laurels of giant junior participation base

Our junior participation base should be much much higher
and it high time the ****s at the FFA actually got off their arse and done something about this

Because improvement in this area is going to squeeze the shit out of the other codes and see flow on effects to the top end of the game

plague
13-09-2017, 03:51 PM
Actually an interesting thing to come out of this whole junior SAP program was that ONLY kids in the SAP program were available for selection for state championships.

Lightly worded reason was to steer kids to NNSW clubs rather than these satellite camps etc.

Now ONLY clubs with a NewFM or NPL side can do the SAP program, and only then they still need to apply for the right to do so.

A couple of people have told me that their clubs probably won't be applying for the SAP licence.

So now we have a massive chunk of the talent pool already told they are illeligable for their first crack at rep football.

It was also hinted at that the emerging Jets will only take kids from the same program. Is that true?

Unless I heard wrong, but if it's true does anyone think it's a good thing for the long term trying to get kids interested?

Or are the alternate pathways good enough that by the time kids are old enough it won't matter where they came from?

Wilso8948
14-09-2017, 07:10 AM
Actually an interesting thing to come out of this whole junior SAP program was that ONLY kids in the SAP program were available for selection for state championships.

Lightly worded reason was to steer kids to NNSW clubs rather than these satellite camps etc.

Now ONLY clubs with a NewFM or NPL side can do the SAP program, and only then they still need to apply for the right to do so.

A couple of people have told me that their clubs probably won't be applying for the SAP licence.

So now we have a massive chunk of the talent pool already told they are illeligable for their first crack at rep football.

It was also hinted at that the emerging Jets will only take kids from the same program. Is that true?

Unless I heard wrong, but if it's true does anyone think it's a good thing for the long term trying to get kids interested?

Or are the alternate pathways good enough that by the time kids are old enough it won't matter where they came from?

Seriously? **** me Brazil have Neymar coming out of the Favelas and we narrow our talent pool to kids with a household income of $200k +

sammydog
14-09-2017, 07:40 AM
Actually an interesting thing to come out of this whole junior SAP program was that ONLY kids in the SAP program were available for selection for state championships.

Lightly worded reason was to steer kids to NNSW clubs rather than these satellite camps etc.

Now ONLY clubs with a NewFM or NPL side can do the SAP program, and only then they still need to apply for the right to do so.

A couple of people have told me that their clubs probably won't be applying for the SAP licence.

So now we have a massive chunk of the talent pool already told they are illeligable for their first crack at rep football.

It was also hinted at that the emerging Jets will only take kids from the same program. Is that true?

Unless I heard wrong, but if it's true does anyone think it's a good thing for the long term trying to get kids interested?

Or are the alternate pathways good enough that by the time kids are old enough it won't matter where they came from?

I question how elite these elite programs are with the sheer volume of kids involved. Surely thats diluted the talent pool in these programs and the good kids wont be pushed as hard while other kids who aren't so good are there because they are happy to pay the fees and make up the numbers.

There are some good kids in the lower grades of junior football who have decided to play with their mates, to ignore these kids is kind of crazy.

MonkeyKplunk
14-09-2017, 07:51 AM
Actually an interesting thing to come out of this whole junior SAP program was that ONLY kids in the SAP program were available for selection for state championships.

Lightly worded reason was to steer kids to NNSW clubs rather than these satellite camps etc.

Now ONLY clubs with a NewFM or NPL side can do the SAP program, and only then they still need to apply for the right to do so.

A couple of people have told me that their clubs probably won't be applying for the SAP licence.

So now we have a massive chunk of the talent pool already told they are illeligable for their first crack at rep football.

It was also hinted at that the emerging Jets will only take kids from the same program. Is that true?

Unless I heard wrong, but if it's true does anyone think it's a good thing for the long term trying to get kids interested?

Or are the alternate pathways good enough that by the time kids are old enough it won't matter where they came from?

Reasonably true from what I've heard as well.
Goddamn shame cause it means the smaller clubs will lose talented kids long before they get chosen for rep sides.

I've had 3 parents from our club come back to me after attending Hunter Hawks trials and have said that the coach/selector there implicitly said he will NEVER chose a child from Muswellbrook, no matter how talented. So now these kids have to transfer to another club for X amount of time before even getting a chance to be a part of the program, and our club loses out on having that talented player within a team with his friends where they actively bring the skill level of all around them up as well.

plague
14-09-2017, 09:10 AM
The other thing I've found fascinating at some of these trials over the past few weeks has been the 'type' of player these coaches are looking for.

Pretty much kids are run through a few basic dribbling skills then told to do things like 'Ronaldo chops' (or some shit like that). Then they are divided into small sided groups and have games. As the games go on kids are pulled into the main game (where the 'proper' coaches are watching).

Problem is ALL the kids are the same type scrapping around kicking crap out of each other.

It was seriously like the old 'stick a boot in bleed for the shirt' type stuff.

This stood out as there are two kids from our juniors (in seperate teams) who are pretty lethal finishers.like seriously beautiful on the ball but we trained them all year on getting into space to receive the ball etc.

Coaches didn't give them a second look because they weren't 'involved' enough.

Mind you in the 90 min trial they did exactly 'zero' shooting drills. I would have thought those skills were important but what do I know.

So then we've got parents into us as we spent all season mentoring them about playing football yet they really should have been kicking crap out of everyone.

i give up already.

MFKS
14-09-2017, 09:55 AM
The other thing I've found fascinating at some of these trials over the past few weeks has been the 'type' of player these coaches are looking for.

Pretty much kids are run through a few basic dribbling skills then told to do things like 'Ronaldo chops' (or some shit like that). Then they are divided into small sided groups and have games. As the games go on kids are pulled into the main game (where the 'proper' coaches are watching).

Problem is ALL the kids are the same type scrapping around kicking crap out of each other.

It was seriously like the old 'stick a boot in bleed for the shirt' type stuff.

This stood out as there are two kids from our juniors (in seperate teams) who are pretty lethal finishers.like seriously beautiful on the ball but we trained them all year on getting into space to receive the ball etc.

Coaches didn't give them a second look because they weren't 'involved' enough.

Mind you in the 90 min trial they did exactly 'zero' shooting drills. I would have thought those skills were important but what do I know.

So then we've got parents into us as we spent all season mentoring them about playing football yet they really should have been kicking crap out of everyone.

i give up already.

Funny you should say that they scrap around and kick the living shit out of everything that moves

Because to me this is a failing of the EJ program

The kids getting in this are soft between the ears and are not there to grind out results /compete etc

Matter of fact you apply some pressure to them they crumble like the Jets HAL side does

In all the time we have had the Jets in the NPL I could count on 1 hand the amount of 1-0 wins they have had

The EJ go alright when it a turkey shoot but there is little fight in them to find a way to win at 0-0 or 1-1 and get the job done

The other thing that would be said there isn't a hell of a lot of FLAIR in the players in the program

They all robotic in their methods

MonkeyKplunk
14-09-2017, 10:00 AM
The other thing I've found fascinating at some of these trials over the past few weeks has been the 'type' of player these coaches are looking for.

Pretty much kids are run through a few basic dribbling skills then told to do things like 'Ronaldo chops' (or some shit like that). Then they are divided into small sided groups and have games. As the games go on kids are pulled into the main game (where the 'proper' coaches are watching).

Problem is ALL the kids are the same type scrapping around kicking crap out of each other.

It was seriously like the old 'stick a boot in bleed for the shirt' type stuff.

This stood out as there are two kids from our juniors (in seperate teams) who are pretty lethal finishers.like seriously beautiful on the ball but we trained them all year on getting into space to receive the ball etc.

Coaches didn't give them a second look because they weren't 'involved' enough.

Mind you in the 90 min trial they did exactly 'zero' shooting drills. I would have thought those skills were important but what do I know.

So then we've got parents into us as we spent all season mentoring them about playing football yet they really should have been kicking crap out of everyone.

i give up already.

I think this is probably the most truly disappointing thing that I've read from this whole discussion so far.

Best you can hope for is those kids keep up with the training, stick with it through to a senior side and hopefully get noticed by someone looking for reserves for a NEWFM or NPL side.

plague
14-09-2017, 10:23 AM
Funny you should say that they scrap around and kick the living shit out of everything that moves

Because to me this is a failing of the EJ program

The kids getting in this are soft between the ears and are not there to grind out results /compete etc





The other thing that would be said there isn't a hell of a lot of FLAIR in the players in the program

They all robotic in their methods

Yeah I guess that's the balance huh.
Getting the 'toughness' as well as the actual footballing ability.

My impression was that coaches believe that it's easier to teach tough kids how to play football rather than footballers how to be tough.

If that's the idea then cool.

It just made me wonder if maybe the removal of the old school ethnic clubs has transformed this way of thinking. Because as a kid every time we played one of those old school Sydney clubs they were always WAY better footballers than us. We were always a bunch of classic white kids coached by a blood and guts type bloke, and that only went so far.


Just seems like it's all come full circle and GVE's wet dream of robots with good engines is alive and well.

The Dunster
14-09-2017, 10:29 AM
When you apply a business model to junior sport you get business results - namely profit becomes the goal rather than a better quality footballer. The same applies to music, tennis...you name it.
Business models seek to maximise sales , revenue, or profit. They do not seek to maximise skill.

Macca
14-09-2017, 10:36 AM
When you apply a business model to junior sport you get business results - namely profit becomes the goal rather than a better quality footballer. The same applies to music, tennis...you name it.
Business models seek to maximise sales , revenue, or profit. They do not seek to maximise skill.

Which is the problem with privatisation of so many industries. Each side [public/private] has their downfalls. Bit of a tangent.

I don't know how much its changed in the last 10 years or so but as for these alternate pathways, I never saw them. You had the kids who's parents were fully into it and took them to trials with the Magics and the Olympics etc and trialled for rep teams every year. But for every one of those there would have been 5 kids just as talented just playing for the local club - they never went near any advanced coaching/programs and the programs never came near them.

MFKS
14-09-2017, 10:43 AM
Yeah I guess that's the balance huh.
Getting the 'toughness' as well as the actual footballing ability.

My impression was that coaches believe that it's easier to teach tough kids how to play football rather than footballers how to be tough.

If that's the idea then cool.

It just made me wonder if maybe the removal of the old school ethnic clubs has transformed this way of thinking. Because as a kid every time we played one of those old school Sydney clubs they were always WAY better footballers than us. We were always a bunch of classic white kids coached by a blood and guts type bloke, and that only went so far.


Just seems like it's all come full circle and GVE's wet dream of robots with good engines is alive and well.

But the EJ ain't teaching the kids to be tougher

If it was we would be getting more results from it

Nearly all the kids in it will fail as the selection in the first place was flawed as they refuse to pick the kid who will run through a brick wall to achieve the dream

They pick the ones cuddled in the program from a young age and then when it gets to the razors edge of time to progress from junior football to HAL they don't have the ticker to actually do it as they have never had to work hard for anything in the first place

The Dunster
14-09-2017, 11:08 AM
But the EJ ain't teaching the kids to be tougher

If it was we would be getting more results from it

Nearly all the kids in it will fail as the selection in the first place was flawed as they refuse to pick the kid who will run through a brick wall to achieve the dream

They pick the ones cuddled in the program from a young age and then when it gets to the razors edge of time to progress from junior football to HAL they don't have the ticker to actually do it as they have never had to work hard for anything in the first place

Pretty good explanation of why most privately schooled kids tend to only do well in the family business or pursuits like law, insurance, finance, HR .. and so on which were pretty much designed to make the dumbest khunts you could find look a lot smarter than they are. Malcolm Turnbull being a great example.

Wilso8948
14-09-2017, 12:33 PM
Pretty good explanation of why most privately schooled kids tend to only do well in the family business or pursuits like law, insurance, finance, HR .. and so on which were pretty much designed to make the dumbest khunts you could find look a lot smarter than they are. Malcolm Turnbull being a great example.

This is such a good post.

MonkeyKplunk
14-09-2017, 03:14 PM
Yeah I guess that's the balance huh.
Getting the 'toughness' as well as the actual footballing ability.

My impression was that coaches believe that it's easier to teach tough kids how to play football rather than footballers how to be tough.

If that's the idea then cool.

It just made me wonder if maybe the removal of the old school ethnic clubs has transformed this way of thinking. Because as a kid every time we played one of those old school Sydney clubs they were always WAY better footballers than us. We were always a bunch of classic white kids coached by a blood and guts type bloke, and that only went so far.


Just seems like it's all come full circle and GVE's wet dream of robots with good engines is alive and well.


When you apply a business model to junior sport you get business results - namely profit becomes the goal rather than a better quality footballer. The same applies to music, tennis...you name it.
Business models seek to maximise sales , revenue, or profit. They do not seek to maximise skill.

The proof is in the outcomes though.
How many players from the NNSWF region can you name that have truly achieved something either here or overseas in the last 10 years?

Surely if this system, and the current way of thinking, worked then we would have more?

The Dunster
14-09-2017, 03:30 PM
The proof is in the outcomes though.
How many players from the NNSWF region can you name that have truly achieved something either here or overseas in the last 10 years?

Surely if this system, and the current way of thinking, worked then we would have more?

Andrew Hoole signed with a big European club..... based on the NSW Central Coast.

plague
14-09-2017, 03:55 PM
The proof is in the outcomes though.
How many players from the NNSWF region can you name that have truly achieved something either here or overseas in the last 10 years?

Surely if this system, and the current way of thinking, worked then we would have more?

Oh I don't doubt this for a second.
Which is why I was so surprised at the selection process. It wasn't what I thought development squads would look like.

As for how many NNSW? I don't know any of these jamokes and don't pay attention to youth football. It's entirely out of self interest that I'm there ATM.

Just wondered how many kids think SAP etc is the best path or joining a club that promotes from within all the way up like Ye days of olde?

My observations are not criticisms. We are talking grassroots football and I'm just explaining what I'm seeing.

plague
14-09-2017, 03:58 PM
How many players from the NNSWF region can you name that have truly achieved something either here or overseas in the last 10 years?


Whilst we are here I'd love anyone to have answers to this.

Because it's an excellent question.

MonkeyKplunk
14-09-2017, 04:55 PM
Oh I don't doubt this for a second.
Which is why I was so surprised at the selection process. It wasn't what I thought development squads would look like.

As for how many NNSW? I don't know any of these jamokes and don't pay attention to youth football. It's entirely out of self interest that I'm there ATM.

Just wondered how many kids think SAP etc is the best path or joining a club that promotes from within all the way up like Ye days of olde?

My observations are not criticisms. We are talking grassroots football and I'm just explaining what I'm seeing.

I'm certainly not taking your observations as criticisms. It's actually quite interesting to hear from a parent who has had some kind of involvement in things outside of the area I'm in and to essentially be hearing the same results/questions.
I'm quite vocal within our association, so it's just given me more points to argue with really lol

MFKS
14-09-2017, 06:09 PM
Whilst we are here I'd love anyone to have answers to this.

Because it's an excellent question.

The last blokes to make anything out of themselves from the area are Clayton Zane and Robbie Middleby and Troy Halpin all making it to Socceroos level but that was 15-20year ago

Since then we just had the likes of Stu Jobe Hoffman Raheem Kanta BK Cowburn Agent McBreen etc making various levels of a career at National League level

It really slim pickings from an area which has more juniors than the Victorian Federation does and is second only to NSW Fed

Bremsstrahlung
14-09-2017, 06:35 PM
What does Football NSW or Vic Football do differently in terms of structuring juniors/rep teams? Are there any marked differences?

plague
14-09-2017, 06:41 PM
The last blokes to make anything out of themselves from the area are Clayton Zane and Robbie Middleby and Troy Halpin all making it to Socceroos level but that was 15-20year ago

Since then we just had the likes of Stu Jobe Hoffman Raheem Kanta BK Cowburn Agent McBreen etc making various levels of a career at National League level

It really slim pickings from an area which has more juniors than the Victorian Federation does and is second only to NSW Fed

Sorry but I was interested in the 'success' of players who came through the development squad type environment vs players who came up through individual clubs.

Again I don't know the answer but do you know if any of the blokes you mentioned came up from either of those paths?

sammydog
14-09-2017, 08:39 PM
Sorry but I was interested in the 'success' of players who came through the development squad type environment vs players who came up through individual clubs.

Again I don't know the answer but do you know if any of the blokes you mentioned came up from either of those paths?

I'm still a fan of the old system. Club football with your mates and the best play additional football withe the association rep team.

Everything now is more a money/status grab under the guise of junior development.

Premy
27-09-2017, 04:30 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4946766/what-do-you-think-of-the-proposal-for-a-newcastle-sporting-centre-for-excellence/?cs=306

plague
27-09-2017, 06:53 PM
Wasn't sure where to put this.
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/4946766/what-do-you-think-of-the-proposal-for-a-newcastle-sporting-centre-for-excellence/?cs=306


“This process will include broad community consultation. Key AFL, cricket, rugby union, netball, athletics, croquet and football stakeholders will all be consulted.”



oh im absolutely positive that all of these groups will be able to come up with a fair and balanced resolution.


by the way is council building this before or after the spanish steps in hunter street mall?

football_macigian23
30-09-2017, 06:51 PM
Not sure where else to put this

What are everyone's thoughts on 14-16NPL coaches requiring to have the C Senior License instead of Youth?

Senior is focused on winning games and setting up your team from week to week depending on the opposition

Something the NPL does not encourage?

Onehunglow
30-09-2017, 09:34 PM
Not sure where else to put this

What are everyone's thoughts on 14-16NPL coaches requiring to have the C Senior License instead of Youth?

Senior is focused on winning games and setting up your team from week to week depending on the opposition

Something the NPL does not encourage?


It fits with FFA's model where u/14 is part of the game training phase, shape and structure rather than skill development. 9-13 is skill acquisition phase which is the youth component of the C Licence.

It's a big commitment for the coaches but the courses are well worth it. If we're serious about improving the standard then it's a must to do these courses so the kids get the benefit of educated coaches.

The issue for the coaches is the $ don't yet match the commitment and hours required to coach at this level.

sammydog
30-09-2017, 10:56 PM
Would you consider NPL, even at youth level, grass roots?

Onehunglow
30-09-2017, 11:38 PM
Would you consider NPL, even at youth level, grass roots?

I'm not sure, what does grass roots even mean? NPL youth is not a bad level. Jobe Wheelhouse has a team in Spain and drew 2-2 with Atletico Madrid under 13's. That's a very impressive result. This is a select team which would probably be top 4-6 in their local NPL under 13 age group.

sammydog
01-10-2017, 08:09 AM
I call grass roots your kids who are just having a run in a non-elite team. Your standard mini-Roos and junior football.

Personally, once you move into development squads and elite programs, I don’t think it’s grass roots anymore.

I think for the various federations though, these youth NPL are grass roots and everything else below it doesn’t exist, or just isn’t important.

MFKS
01-10-2017, 09:45 AM
I'm not sure, what does grass roots even mean? NPL youth is not a bad level. Jobe Wheelhouse has a team in Spain and drew 2-2 with Atletico Madrid under 13's. That's a very impressive result. This is a select team which would probably be top 4-6 in their local NPL under 13 age group.

Impressive result??

Where those Spanish kids actually improve is between the ages of 15/20

That where they have it over us

They progress rapidly where as our kids stagnate at that age

Plus I couldn't give two ****s about some result in a match like this

You have any idea on the strength of the opposition??

Onehunglow
01-10-2017, 12:02 PM
Impressive result??

Where those Spanish kids actually improve is between the ages of 15/20

That where they have it over us

They progress rapidly where as our kids stagnate at that age

Plus I couldn't give two ****s about some result in a match like this

You have any idea on the strength of the opposition??

Spanish football is light years ahead of Australian football at every age. Don't give me that crap about late development.

The opposition was Athletico Madrids Under 13's, after that result they sent in a stronger group and the Newcastle boys beat them 4-1.

I've toured Europe with Newastle youth players before and we generally don't get anywhere near the kids in the same age, so yes it is an impressive result.

If you don't give a shit then don't comment.

380
01-10-2017, 12:08 PM
Grassroots = cashcow

The Dunster
01-10-2017, 12:44 PM
Kids today are shit athletes. They are slow and have **** all endurance due to the Nintendo / Xbox / Playstation effect of sitting on their arses too much. Not an opinion either - it's easily backed up if you look at records from district, state, zone, and club level - many of which still stand from the early 1970's.
In the 60's and 70's, even the 80's kids walked, ran, skated, or rode bikes everywhere. We played football, cricket, basketball, hockey, tennis, you name it... every day with our friends - rain hail or shine, during and after school. If it wasn't an official organised match we organised it ourselves.

This is the problem. Everyone is expecting these cash whore elite programs to make silk purses out of sows ears.

plague
01-10-2017, 04:52 PM
it's easily backed up if you look at records from district, state, zone, and club level - many of which still stand from the early 1970's.

yeah but all the kids were on steroids back then.

hawk
02-10-2017, 09:47 PM
Would you consider NPL, even at youth level, grass roots?

grassroots is not any youth rep


Kids today are shit athletes. They are slow and have **** all endurance due to the Nintendo / Xbox / Playstation effect of sitting on their arses too much. Not an opinion either - it's easily backed up if you look at records from district, state, zone, and club level - many of which still stand from the early 1970's.
In the 60's and 70's, even the 80's kids walked, ran, skated, or rode bikes everywhere. We played football, cricket, basketball, hockey, tennis, you name it... every day with our friends - rain hail or shine, during and after school. If it wasn't an official organised match we organised it ourselves.

spot on. All that outdoor sh1t honed many skills at earlier ages.

Pity the game of football didnt evolve here to suit the skills sets of the day. Aus could have been stronger much earlier

sammydog
02-10-2017, 10:36 PM
grassroots is not any youth rep

That’s my take on it, but so many people consider grass roots to be youth at the elite level, not sure what you call kids who just play.

The real grass roots is being shit on by the push to get as many kids as physically possible into an elite program. The elite is no longe elite, it’s a talent diluted cash cow.

380
03-10-2017, 01:12 AM
It is rather ironic David Gallop used the word pyramid recently to describe FFA's marketing approach.

It is more apt to use the word pyramid to describe the way the game is funded. Just you watch the costs go through the roof if the Socceroos fail to qualify for the world cup. Gotta make up the shortfall somehow and who better to start with than the kids and there my kids the next star parents.

football_macigian23
09-10-2017, 10:03 AM
Did anyone else see that Blacktown City are charging $1,500 (includes kit :roflz:) for PreSAP program, Under 5-6?

Seriously a joke now..

380
09-10-2017, 11:10 AM
Did anyone else see that Blacktown City are charging $1,500 (includes kit :roflz:) for PreSAP program, Under 5-6?

Seriously a joke now..


Would not surprise. I can recall being told back in 2013 what they were charging for Jnr rego . Made the $ 600-700 some clubs up here were charging inc kit look very benevolent.

MFKS
09-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Did anyone else see that Blacktown City are charging $1,500 (includes kit :roflz:) for PreSAP program, Under 5-6?

Seriously a joke now..

Got to pay the first grade squads after all

How else these blokes going to get the big money playing football in a state league getting crowds of 500 /1000 a game??

plague
10-10-2017, 09:00 PM
Did anyone else see that Blacktown City are charging $1,500 (includes kit :roflz:) for PreSAP program, Under 5-6?

Seriously a joke now..

SAP program (8's upwards) was supposed to be in that range according to our club but they are working on getting it to around half that price.
2 training sessions per week, 30 games a season, $700 would be on par compared to what you get for basic kickaround rego.

but yeah, $1500 is bad.

MFKS
11-10-2017, 02:31 AM
SAP program (8's upwards) was supposed to be in that range according to our club but they are working on getting it to around half that price.
2 training sessions per week, 30 games a season, $700 would be on par compared to what you get for basic kickaround rego.

but yeah, $1500 is bad.

So where the money going at your club Plague??

I taking it they not a NPL club??

Who is actually pocketing this cash??

The Magician
11-10-2017, 09:33 AM
So where the money going at your club Plague??

I taking it they not a NPL club??

Who is actually pocketing this cash??

Most clubs have already had some sort of trial or selection for SAP, what are they charging around the town?

howardyou
11-10-2017, 09:40 AM
So where the money going at your club Plague??

I taking it they not a NPL club??

Who is actually pocketing this cash??

Ha ha "pocketing this cash" do you have any idea what it takes to run a football club and the costs that are involved?

Take into account registration fees (NNSW/FFA), Match officials, Kits and gear, ground hire, Council lighting fees, Coaching costs and you don't end up with much left.

sammydog
11-10-2017, 10:26 AM
Ha ha "pocketing this cash" do you have any idea what it takes to run a football club and the costs that are involved?

Take into account registration fees (NNSW/FFA), Match officials, Kits and gear, ground hire, Council lighting fees, Coaching costs and you don't end up with much left.

Give us a transparent breakdown of a club then?

Unless the coaches are taking a heap, and the kit is playing gear/training/off field kit, the rest doesn't add up to $700+.

howardyou
11-10-2017, 12:15 PM
Give us a transparent breakdown of a club then?

Unless the coaches are taking a heap, and the kit is playing gear/training/off field kit, the rest doesn't add up to $700+.

Rego fees are around half.

Say you sign 9 players for $6k.
Then,
Rego fees with FFA / NNSW are $3k - This also pays for ground & training hire, match officials at Hub
Kits cost $1500 (Average $150-$200 per player for full SAP licenced playing kit. Off field wear and training kits)
Assume Coach costs $1k (not sure on this or what is standard)
Training gear $500

Nothing left over for a club's overheads. It's not as simple as some think.

plague
11-10-2017, 08:43 PM
So where the money going at your club Plague??

I taking it they not a NPL club??

Who is actually pocketing this cash??

im sure they'll offer up a breakdown if asked.
as mentioned, for 30 games and 2 nights per week coaching, kit etc that $700-$800 figure seems on par.
the coaches our club have involved are credentialed and wouldnt (nor shouldnt) be doing it for free.

as a parent, the easy option to save money is to just not do the program.

the cash doesnt concern me, our family is lucky we can afford it.

but.

my concern is the actual type of coaching the kid will receive. from the trials it seemed they went after one particular 'type' of player. but after seeing some of the kids selected, i was pleasantly surprised. it looks like the club is trying to build a team, not just a bunch of kids doing tricks.

if this is the philosophy, im keeping him in (as long as he continues to get selected). but if it reverts to just teaching them a bunch of flicks and tricks then ill sit him in front of Zidane and Iniesta DVD's instead and save the money.

MFKS
11-10-2017, 10:23 PM
im sure they'll offer up a breakdown if asked.
as mentioned, for 30 games and 2 nights per week coaching, kit etc that $700-$800 figure seems on par.
the coaches our club have involved are credentialed and wouldnt (nor shouldnt) be doing it for free.

as a parent, the easy option to save money is to just not do the program.

the cash doesnt concern me, our family is lucky we can afford it.

but.

my concern is the actual type of coaching the kid will receive. from the trials it seemed they went after one particular 'type' of player. but after seeing some of the kids selected, i was pleasantly surprised. it looks like the club is trying to build a team, not just a bunch of kids doing tricks.

if this is the philosophy, im keeping him in (as long as he continues to get selected). but if it reverts to just teaching them a bunch of flicks and tricks then ill sit him in front of Zidane and Iniesta DVD's instead and save the money.

Just stick to Iniesta.

Zidane was alright but if you want to teach a kid how to play the game then Iniesta is the man

Disagree though about the bit about the coaches shouldn't be doing it for free.

It the money people are paying for programs such as this that are seeing a lot of people making a living or some income from the game

Judging by the end results and the lack of world class players this country produces they ain't worth being paid when other nations can produce world class players and the coaches are not being paid like they get in this back water of a country

EH9
12-10-2017, 03:24 PM
Disagree though about the bit about the coaches shouldn't be doing it for free.

Why should they do it for free?

hawk
12-10-2017, 11:00 PM
Grassroots should be cheap but any sort of rep or credentialed coach deserves a few $ imo.

The other problem with average grade player fees is not with, "pocketing cash" as i think that would be rare, but taking on projects (not the usual upkeep) that increases fees and that many parents might not think is needed.

MFKS
12-10-2017, 11:48 PM
Why should they do it for free?

Seems to be done elsewhere in the world

But no in this country everyone needs a hand out

Goatscheese
15-10-2017, 09:48 AM
It fits with FFA's model where u/14 is part of the game training phase, shape and structure rather than skill development. 9-13 is skill acquisition phase which is the youth component of the C Licence.

It's a big commitment for the coaches but the courses are well worth it. If we're serious about improving the standard then it's a must to do these courses so the kids get the benefit of educated coaches.

The issue for the coaches is the $ don't yet match the commitment and hours required to coach at this level.


Having done the C Licence- Youth I can tell you the components and requirements to obtain the licence was much more about the game-training phase and teaching that rather than the skill acquisition phase. A training plan on game training had to be drawn up and then the game-training component of the plan had to be conducted and assessed. The requirements to obtain the full C-licence also required a skill-acquisition training plan to be drawn up and conducted. Not sure why those doing both Senior and Youth had to do Skill-Acq and those only doing Youth only had to do a game training component but what is actually taught doesn't fit with your reasoning.

C-licence Youth is suitable for U14-U16 YPL coaches.

Goatscheese
15-10-2017, 09:50 AM
Did anyone else see that Blacktown City are charging $1,500 (includes kit :roflz:) for PreSAP program, Under 5-6?

Seriously a joke now..

That price is not even a new concept.

Goatscheese
15-10-2017, 09:53 AM
It the money people are paying for programs such as this that are seeing a lot of people making a living or some income from the game

What club is playing a living wage for their junior coaches? I want in.


Judging by the end results and the lack of world class players this country produces they ain't worth being paid when other nations can produce world class players and the coaches are not being paid like they get in this back water of a country

I would like a source on this claim that the countries that produce star players don't pay their coaches.

MFKS
15-10-2017, 12:28 PM
What club is playing a living wage for their junior coaches? I want in.



I would like a source on this claim that the countries that produce star players don't pay their coaches.

Argentina you think they paying coaches to produce your Messi's and Maradona's and Agueros etc

You think Brazil are paying coaches to produce your Neymar's Ronaldinho Fat Ronnie's etc??

The coaching they getting in their formative years is unpaid if they even getting coached at all


It ain't to they getting to a Euro Club they getting training under some certificate laden bloke getting paid to do the job

Goatscheese
15-10-2017, 04:32 PM
Argentina you think they paying coaches to produce your Messi's and Maradona's and Agueros etc

You think Brazil are paying coaches to produce your Neymar's Ronaldinho Fat Ronnie's etc??

The coaching they getting in their formative years is unpaid if they even getting coached at all


It ain't to they getting to a Euro Club they getting training under some certificate laden bloke getting paid to do the job
Can you try writing this again? Your inability to compose a sentence without missing, incorrect words and basic grammar makes deciphering your posts incredibly difficult.

Also you saying something happens isn't proof.

MFKS
15-10-2017, 04:54 PM
Can you try writing this again? Your inability to compose a sentence without missing, incorrect words and basic grammar makes deciphering your posts incredibly difficult.

Also you saying something happens isn't proof.

Just as you saying that coaches in Sth America get paid to produce players isn't proof either.

Reality is that outside of the top tier of football in every country on the planet there is **** all $$$ floating around



People actually do the job for the love of the game and to help others

But in this country there is cash going to mid level coaching

But no in this shit country it all about some entitlement to be paid to put some witches hats out

hawk
20-02-2018, 11:19 AM
Active Kids warns unwarranted price hikes
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/5238201/parents-concerned-over-unreasonable-rego-fees/?cs=305

Could be a big drop in participants if the active kids bonus goes

sammydog
20-02-2018, 11:48 AM
Name and shame the clubs.

Plenty didn't put fees up, maybe they should be praised/promoted instead of worrying about those who took advantage of the rebates. Sad thing is, the parents keep going back when there are plenty of other options (for Newcastle and Macquarie players) without having to travel too far.

The Magician
20-02-2018, 12:02 PM
Name and shame the clubs.

Plenty didn't put fees up, maybe they should be praised/promoted instead of worrying about those who took advantage of the rebates. Sad thing is, the parents keep going back when there are plenty of other options (for Newcastle and Macquarie players) without having to travel too far.

Newcastle Football has to approve a club's registration for the upcoming season with the club providing a detailed spreadsheet of the breakdown in expenses. Clubs are justifying their increases to the fed. Ref fees, council fees and fed fees have all increased from last season.

MonkeyKplunk
20-02-2018, 12:25 PM
We kept our fees the same. There was no point in raising fees for entry level children when all that is going to happen is the club gets bigger and stronger.
In fact, 5-7 years are free rego if you use the Active Kids voucher. Which is how it should be.

Those parents complaining and thinking that their cricket fees are going to increase in Summer clearly haven't read the terms of the Active kids voucher and noticed that you only get one a year.

sammydog
20-02-2018, 12:27 PM
Newcastle Football has to approve a club's registration for the upcoming season with the club providing a detailed spreadsheet of the breakdown in expenses. Clubs are justifying their increases to the fed. Ref fees, council fees and fed fees have all increased from last season.

I know exactly what all the fees went up by in relation to the breakdowns across the board. I went through the process of setting the fees for our club and having them approved by Macquarie. You can not argue that though there isn't a big disparity between the increases that clubs have applied for, it can not be just a coincidence that there have been some big fee increases at some clubs at the same time as there is a $100 rebate on offer.

Our junior fees went up by from between $10 (U6) through to $20 (U17) for juniors. That is taking into account all the increases in fees across the Refs, Councils, NNSW, FFA, etc. We are not taking a loss by setting our fees this way.

I'm disjointed that the herald only focused on those clubs with the big increases. They should go as far as pointing out the many clubs did not seek a big increase in fees. Let the parents know that there is options if the fees concern them.

MonkeyKplunk
20-02-2018, 12:46 PM
I know exactly what all the fees went up by in relation to the breakdowns across the board. I went through the process of setting the fees for our club and having them approved by Macquarie. You can not argue that though there isn't a big disparity between the increases that clubs have applied for, it can not be just a coincidence that there have been some big fee increases at some clubs at the same time as there is a $100 rebate on offer.

Our junior fees went up by from between $10 (U6) through to $20 (U17) for juniors. That is taking into account all the increases in fees across the Refs, Councils, NNSW, FFA, etc. We are not taking a loss by setting our fees this way.

I'm disjointed that the herald only focused on those clubs with the big increases. They should go as far as pointing out the many clubs did not seek a big increase in fees. Let the parents know that there is options if the fees concern them.

You're asking the Herald to do some actual Journalism. That's not going to happen.

It should be noted that one of the clubs to raise their fees by $100 this season, is also the only club in the area to receive quite a large grant courtesy of the Asian Cup Legacy Fund.

plague
20-02-2018, 09:30 PM
seriously this whole voucher bullshit was ALWAYS going to cause this.

If anyone has paid 2 seconds of attention to childcare costs they would know this was coming.

ditto the grand idea to subsidise electricity prices.

good on the clubs for taking the extra money. some might even spend it wisely.

rawr.
22-02-2018, 12:23 PM
I'm disjointed that the herald only focused on those clubs with the big increases. They should go as far as pointing out the many clubs did not seek a big increase in fees. Let the parents know that there is options if the fees concern them.

I'm disjointed The Newcastle Herald included a club that DIDN'T have a big increase whatsoever.

Bremsstrahlung
11-10-2018, 10:08 AM
Parliamentary Secretary for the Hunter Scot MacDonald will announce on Thursday a $2.25m grant for the project through the State Government's Regional Sports Infrastructure Fund. Northern NSW Football will contribute $750,000.

The development includes the construction of a multi-purpose building, improvements to lighting and turf playing surface as well as new change rooms.

“This is fantastic news not just for Northern NSW Football but for the Lake Macquarie region,” Lake Macquarie MP Greg Piper said. “ The facility not only provides first-class facilities for locals, it has put us on the map nationally and even internationally, so I again applaud everyone involved.”

The facility at Speers Point has hosted a number of state and national junior tournaments.

The Matildas will take on Chile at McDonald Jones Stadium on November 13 and there has been a push by Newcastle City Council for the national women's team to be based in the region.

Football Federation Australia are bidding to host the 2023 FIFA women's World Cup. If successful, McDonald Jones Stadium is a likely venue and competing teams could use the region as a training base in the lead up.

Stage one of the Lake Macquarie facility, which is the home to Northern NSW Football, was completed in 2014 at a cost of $11.3m and consists of 14 synthetic pitches, including two full-sized fields, change rooms, meeting rooms, cafe and administration complex.
Herald

Negative Police
15-10-2018, 04:40 PM
Pity There isnt a football academy marked for the unused fields at Broadmeadow.

Imyourhero
10-11-2018, 09:03 AM
Saw an interesting post recently on Australian Cricket detailing how if you take a look at the average backyard there's no room for kids to have a bowl/bat.
Made me reflect on a lot of the environmental barriers to supporting grassroot kids e.g. nets not allowed on goals, not many brick walls at our local parks for a kick and half of the year not even a goal present.

MFKS
10-11-2018, 10:52 AM
My nephew played this season gone

Started first game in Late April Finished Last game start of August

They missed weeks for School Holidays Long Weekend in June etc

So it was basically 3.5 to 4 months of the year the season

and what makes it worse it is the worst time of the year weather wise for washouts

That is a giant impediment there and then you look at the cash paid for it


How can you develop kids in a 3/4 month season ??

This is a giant issue for the FFA to resolve

Imyourhero
10-11-2018, 11:51 AM
I guess my point adds on with the fact that not only are the kids playing inconsistently schedule football for 4 months are year...but the other 8 months there's little resources for them to go practice by themselves or with friends. No wonder kids don't fall in love with the game

Premy
10-11-2018, 12:13 PM
Saw an interesting post recently on Australian Cricket detailing how if you take a look at the average backyard there's no room for kids to have a bowl/bat.
Made me reflect on a lot of the environmental barriers to supporting grassroot kids e.g. nets not allowed on goals, not many brick walls at our local parks for a kick and half of the year not even a goal present.

If you have ever done maintenance at a local ground you would understand the necessity to remove goals for non game days.

As for kick walls, I'm pretty sure that they are outlawed now.

What is stopping kids going down the park and setting up some hats? Nothing.
Gaming consoles and public safety/parents not letting kids out of their sight are more of a concern than lack of facilities for kids having a kick down the park.

Imyourhero
10-11-2018, 12:52 PM
I fully understand the reasons behind no goals and walls, doesn't mean I have to agree with it.
There's nothing stopping a kid putting cones down but lets just put our minds into the frame of a 10-15yr old shall we?
In the mind of a child having a goal with nets & a wall to kick back and forth with sounds more appealing than dribbling around cones.
If a kid is engaged enough he'll choose football over FIFA on the xbox.
Lets get FFA to give all grassroot kids some cones, that'll fix it.

Imyourhero
10-11-2018, 12:56 PM
P.s. I'm not saying this whole goals and wall thing are some big lightbulb moment for Australian football.
I just think it's an environmental barrier to encouraging kids to kick a footy down at their local park when they aren't playing.
Kids need more unstructured football time to develop a love for the game and increase overall contact time.

plague
10-11-2018, 02:23 PM
How can you develop kids in a 3/4 month season ??

This is a giant issue for the FFA to resolve

from U/9's on the NNSW development program starts from early Nov (1 might training), then a Christmas break, then 2 nights per week training from end of Jan (one night at home ground, one night at Speers point facility). Then from (i think) April through to Sept they play about 2 x 40 min games per saturday against their peers. I think the season had about 36 games all up.

So nah, youre wrong. There is a path, and its open to every kid to trail.
If your kid doesnt make it into one of the 18 clubs (with approx 18 players per cub) them maybe your kid aint good enough.
If you think at age 5,6,7 or even 8 that there should be a program for talented kids then you're probably one of those parents who think your kid is the next Ronaldo because he can dribble around a bunch of uninterested toddlers.

If the kid is good enough, he'll get in, and if he doesnt make it then hes prob not good enough at that age, but there is always next year.

One of Plague Jnrs mates triled last year but didnt put in much effort and didnt make it.
He went away played mini roos and busted his ass to get back in the next season, which he did, and it was awesome.

Also, as for recreational space, Plague Jnr lives in an apartment. he is forever practicing his skills (the stuff his coaches want him to do) and has had no issue with his development.
If your kid wants wide open spaces with full goals nets etc, get him and a few mates together and go rent a court at Speers Pt every now and then. Its all there to use.

MFKS
10-11-2018, 10:52 PM
from U/9's on the NNSW development program starts from early Nov (1 might training), then a Christmas break, then 2 nights per week training from end of Jan (one night at home ground, one night at Speers point facility). Then from (i think) April through to Sept they play about 2 x 40 min games per saturday against their peers. I think the season had about 36 games all up.

So nah, youre wrong. There is a path, and its open to every kid to trail.
If your kid doesnt make it into one of the 18 clubs (with approx 18 players per cub) them maybe your kid aint good enough.
If you think at age 5,6,7 or even 8 that there should be a program for talented kids then you're probably one of those parents who think your kid is the next Ronaldo because he can dribble around a bunch of uninterested toddlers.

If the kid is good enough, he'll get in, and if he doesnt make it then hes prob not good enough at that age, but there is always next year.

One of Plague Jnrs mates triled last year but didnt put in much effort and didnt make it.
He went away played mini roos and busted his ass to get back in the next season, which he did, and it was awesome.

Also, as for recreational space, Plague Jnr lives in an apartment. he is forever practicing his skills (the stuff his coaches want him to do) and has had no issue with his development.
If your kid wants wide open spaces with full goals nets etc, get him and a few mates together and go rent a court at Speers Pt every now and then. Its all there to use.

Thats great for players aspiring to the elite pathway but I talking about rank and file players

My nephew was in U6s this year just gone.

14 games and 1 x training session a week to me aint cutting it

We should be aiming for a 6 month season minimum

Start of April through to end of September should be a minimum for all football in this country

There is no excuse why this shouldnt happen

sammydog
10-11-2018, 10:59 PM
Thats great for players aspiring to the elite pathway but I talking about rank and file players

My nephew was in U6s this year just gone.

14 games and 1 x training session a week to me aint cutting it

We should be aiming for a 6 month season minimum

Start of April through to end of September should be a minimum for all football in this country

There is no excuse why this shouldnt happen

I agree the Community junior (and All Age/O35) seasons are way too short. 14 games (+trials and finals) is over way too quick.

Crickets use of some fields is probably the issue. Junior cricket books our top oval from October-March. I have a feeling senior cricket may be a longer season. This can be the only reason I can see that the seasons are the length they are.

MFKS
10-11-2018, 11:05 PM
I agree the Community junior (and All Age/O35) seasons are way too short. 14 games (+trials and finals) is over way too quick.

Crickets use of some fields is probably the issue. Junior cricket books our top oval from October-March. I have a feeling senior cricket may be a longer season. This can be the only reason I can see that the seasons are the length they are.

I dont tjink it helps that the FFA are happy to run and hide from the other sports

The HAL season starts after the Afl and Nrl for exposure etc instead of running our own race and starting when WE want to and giving a middle finger salute to our critics

The FFA needs to have the same attitude and be out there fighting our corner on this issue of season length and being aggressive in our approach so other sports are on the back foot for us

But no we are bending over and taking it as per usual

plague
11-11-2018, 01:00 AM
Thats great for players aspiring to the elite pathway but I talking about rank and file players

My nephew was in U6s this year just gone.

14 games and 1 x training session a week to me aint cutting it



ummm, you realise that your kid can get all the help and training he wants. its all out there.
also, you want to develop our best talent but immediately write off the program that is available for kids who want to go down that path.
its almost as if you didnt even comprehend what you read.


also, maybe go read up where the likes of Iniesta, Griff and others were at age 6. not sure you'll find many of them in any sort of 'development' type programs.

MFKS
11-11-2018, 03:26 PM
ummm, you realise that your kid can get all the help and training he wants. its all out there.
also, you want to develop our best talent but immediately write off the program that is available for kids who want to go down that path.
its almost as if you didnt even comprehend what you read.


also, maybe go read up where the likes of Iniesta, Griff and others were at age 6. not sure you'll find many of them in any sort of 'development' type programs.

Dont know why you talking about development programs and what not for

Seems to be sailing straight over your head my point

3 months of training 1 time a week and 14 matches aint cutting it regardless of whether you are a good bad or trash player

FFA should be upping this as much as possible so as to expose the football community to it for the bulk of the year not a short windows through the year

Besides the increased skill sets all kids involved will get it will allow a greater opportunity to expose kids and make kids addicted to the game

This isnt about turning kids into the next Iniesta or Griff

It is about us demanding more of the pie

Negative Police
11-11-2018, 04:02 PM
It wouldnt be bad for u6-8 to play for a few more weeks either side of the season. Summer is crap for running around a park though.

Could have more skills days either side of the season. So have 4-6 weeks skills on Saturdays before and after season and still have a weekday training session to reinforce what they learnt on the Sat. They'd get more out of that. Every kid regardless of ability gets max training.

As for the U9 & U10 SAP the 9 month season is pretty much right.

Nearly all clubs in top 2 tiers are fielding SAP teams this year. Thats over 300 players for each age plus others in the Net system. Some clubs didnt have enough kids trial for 2 teams.

plague
11-11-2018, 05:30 PM
Dont know why you talking about development programs and what not for

Seems to be sailing straight over your head my point

3 months of training 1 time a week and 14 matches aint cutting it regardless of whether you are a good bad or trash player

FFA should be upping this as much as possible so as to expose the football community to it for the bulk of the year not a short windows through the year

Besides the increased skill sets all kids involved will get it will allow a greater opportunity to expose kids and make kids addicted to the game

This isnt about turning kids into the next Iniesta or Griff

It is about us demanding more of the pie

there are 2 types of kids playing soccer in australia.
1) the kids who just want a run with their mates and dont take it all too seriously.
2) kids who take it more seriously and want to play and train more than most.

FFA caters for both.
if you want something more/less or right in between those 2 groups then there are options available.

go find them.

because your argument is wack.

MFKS
11-11-2018, 07:45 PM
there are 2 types of kids playing soccer in australia.
1) the kids who just want a run with their mates and dont take it all too seriously.
2) kids who take it more seriously and want to play and train more than most.

FFA caters for both.
if you want something more/less or right in between those 2 groups then there are options available.

go find them.

because your argument is wack.
Kids Football in Oz goes for 3.5 months
NPL in NNSW goes from Mid March to Mid August 5 months
HAL goes from Mid October to Late April 6 and a 1/2 months

Now if you think we are playing enough football or as much as we could and should be at all levels you are deluded

Football in this country needs to be a 24 /7/365 thing for those involved not some time filler as it currently is

plague
11-11-2018, 08:22 PM
Kids Football in Oz goes for 3.5 months
NPL in NNSW goes from Mid March to Mid August 5 months
HAL goes from Mid October to Late April 6 and a 1/2 months

Now if you think we are playing enough football or as much as we could and should be at all levels you are deluded

Football in this country needs to be a 24 /7/365 thing for those involved not some time filler as it currently is

man, youve got access to living that 24/7 life.

of course it would involve actually getting off your ass and doing it instead of talking about it.

which doesnt seem like your strong point.

plague
11-11-2018, 08:28 PM
Football in this country needs to be a 24 /7/365 thing for those involved not some time filler as it currently is

now, this is a good discussion point.
will freely admit im only new to this youth football thing. but man oh man have we met some gnarly people along the way.
there are kids currently doing multiple extra sessions in camps like Jobe Wheelhouse of Richard Hartley, as well as playing futsol.
and all this is in the 'off' season from SAP and NET programs.

now im not sure of the stats, but it would be interesting to know how many of these kids doing this much work actually ever go on to achieve what they set out to do.

because im already seeing kids looking burnt out and doubt they will be still as keen come the age of 15/16.
theres a lot to be said for keeping kids interested all whilst keeping them on the right path technically.
now i sure as heck dont know the balance, but it will be interesting to see the teams make up over the next few years.

Goatscheese
12-11-2018, 08:41 PM
Wow so much wrong by so many people, though MFKS is more correct than plague. Seasons in Newcastle is way too short, to be able to develop many players. And in order to get better players you need to have a much bigger pool (180 players in SAP U9) is a very small pool and half of the kids are there because they can afford it not because they are the best in the region. It does hurt the clubs and the players that they have to share with cricket (which doesn't happen in other parts of the country). And yes the engagement for that large pool of players needs to be for much longer in the year than what we currently do in Australia.

plague
12-11-2018, 09:07 PM
And in order to get better players you need to have a much bigger pool (180 players in SAP U9) is a very small pool and half of the kids are there because they can afford it not because they are the best in the region.

How many SAP games have you watched?
Because from this comment its obvious its not enough.
Some clubs couldnt even field teams because no one trialed.
Other clubs were routinely belted because they kids just arent good enough.
There was talk that this year they were letting some clubs field only one team in order to start providing a bit of competition to the strong clubs.

The pool is plenty big enough, and the clubs that have a decent amount of talent have provided NET teams as well as SAP in order to catch anyone that might be good but not quite at that level.
Our club invited the 'best' of the mini roos kids ( a team that was winning 20-0 every week) in to train with the SAP kids at the end of last year to give them a taste of what the next level was like

how these SAP kids in Newy shape up against other kids is an unknown, as the consensus is that games dont matter til 11's or 12's.
whether thats the correct attitude is also unknown.
id also think the length of season is also with respect to not burning the kids out. we saw kids that live/breath football 24/7 and by the end of the season they were fatigued. these are 9 year old kids. they need a break.

but of course Joe Blow up in the stands thinks the kids need to harden up.
hate to break it to you, but none of these kids are doing any of this for your broke asses. deal with it.

Goatscheese
12-11-2018, 10:31 PM
You clearly have no idea the best way to increase the availability of talent and potential talent (hint: it isn't about focusing on a small group for part of the year), and also have no idea about child development and differing rates of improvement.

plague
12-11-2018, 10:39 PM
You clearly have no idea the best way to increase the availability of talent and potential talent (hint: it isn't about focusing on a small group for part of the year), and also have no idea about child development and differing rates of improvement.

huh?
you think im here to tell you how it 'should' be done?
nah boss, im only telling you what a player is going through at the age we were discussing.

although im digging your MFKS-lite posts, im always here to learn the correct way to raise a child.

well go on, the floor is yours.
explain how its done.

Goatscheese
12-11-2018, 10:44 PM
I already have yet you chose to ignore it. It requires the ability for all players to be able to develop as kids will develop and improve at different ages, it also allows lower teams and groups to improve which in turn raises the average skill and increases the skills of higher players. This needs to also be coupled with much longer time engaged in these activities, not for part of the year it does need to be year round but that doesn't mean it has to be structured 4-5 times a week either

plague
12-11-2018, 10:53 PM
I already have yet you chose to ignore it. It requires the ability for all players to be able to develop as kids will develop and improve at different ages, it also allows lower teams and groups to improve which in turn raises the average skill and increases the skills of higher players. This needs to also be coupled with much longer time engaged in these activities, not for part of the year it does need to be year round but that doesn't mean it has to be structured 4-5 times a week either

so who pays for the extra coaching, referees, ground use and insurance?

plague
12-11-2018, 11:21 PM
It requires the ability for all players to be able to develop as kids will develop and improve at different ages, it also allows lower teams and groups to improve which in turn raises the average skill and increases the skills of higher players.

you'll need to explain this bit.
you want ALL kids in each age group doing the same coaching/training level?
would you still have programs for the 'best of the best' in each age?

Negative Police
13-11-2018, 12:48 AM
You guys are nearly arguing for the same thing.

As I said before theres nearly 300 U9's ready to go for SAP next year. Thats a large number and some teams didnt get enough players.
For what I saw this year progression is quite large. Add to that many players from these SAP teams are now playing NET summer comp or Summer '6s/7's so these players have a solid 9 months of quality skills acquisition.

Now if a player somehow misses out on these teams then mum or dad needs to get onto youtube/interwebs and put together a training schedule. A monkey can do it from scratch. Info is everywhere. Do the training. Hunt around and join in futsal/summer teams. I know kids who have recently made a path this way. But I wouldnt wait too long now the junior skills acquisition teams have ramped up massively in the last few years.

MFKS
13-11-2018, 05:52 AM
How many SAP games have you watched?
Because from this comment its obvious its not enough.
Some clubs couldnt even field teams because no one trialed.
Other clubs were routinely belted because they kids just arent good enough.
There was talk that this year they were letting some clubs field only one team in order to start providing a bit of competition to the strong clubs.

The pool is plenty big enough, and the clubs that have a decent amount of talent have provided NET teams as well as SAP in order to catch anyone that might be good but not quite at that level.
Our club invited the 'best' of the mini roos kids ( a team that was winning 20-0 every week) in to train with the SAP kids at the end of last year to give them a taste of what the next level was like

how these SAP kids in Newy shape up against other kids is an unknown, as the consensus is that games dont matter til 11's or 12's.
whether thats the correct attitude is also unknown.
id also think the length of season is also with respect to not burning the kids out. we saw kids that live/breath football 24/7 and by the end of the season they were fatigued. these are 9 year old kids. they need a break.

but of course Joe Blow up in the stands thinks the kids need to harden up.
hate to break it to you, but none of these kids are doing any of this for your broke asses. deal with it.

Plague you keep looking at this through the NNSWApproved Elite Development Pathway trying to create the next Hoffman / Hoole / BK etc

Got to start looking at it for the average kid who gets exposed to the game at a young age by mum and dad. For whatever reasons Mum and Dad have put Little Johnny before the code of Football and we have an opportunity to hook that kid to the game with a lufetime love for the game

A 6 month season for them would appear to be the best option for this purpose rather than a 3 and a bit month season

As for 6 months being enough time for Burnout FMD
They are kids with all the energy in the world

plague
13-11-2018, 09:16 AM
Plague you keep looking at this through the NNSWApproved Elite Development Pathway trying to create the next Hoffman / Hoole / BK etc


nah.
youre the one saying kids need 'more' football.
im saying there is a chance for kids to get 'more' football.
but then you dont want it 'that' way, you want it done a different way.

im asking what that different way is?

you and my man Cheese, explain yo'selves.

sammydog
13-11-2018, 10:54 AM
you'll need to explain this bit.
you want ALL kids in each age group doing the same coaching/training level?
would you still have programs for the 'best of the best' in each age?

Do you think the current SAP system has the best of the best players?

So many of the kids in the SAP programs are there to make up the numbers I question the value to the truely elite kids. Are we actually holding back the good kids by having an "everyone gets a prize" (as long as you can afford the entry) system of elite development. For my mind its watered down the talent pool for the sake of numbers.

The killer for me is I have seen community club teams (across many clubs) gutted when players run off to SAP. The result is kids left behind leaving the sport because their team folds. I think we would be better to scale back the size of the elite programs, encourage community clubs to improve coaching/development and increase playing season by another 1-2 months (it can be fit in, particularly for mini-roos ages).

Community clubs could then better underpin the elite programs by feeding better players, rather than being seen as places by the SAP clubs to pillage players to get numbers.

plague
13-11-2018, 11:18 AM
Do you think the current SAP system has the best of the best players?

So many of the kids in the SAP programs are there to make up the numbers I question the value to the truely elite kids. Are we actually holding back the good kids by having an "everyone gets a prize" (as long as you can afford the entry) system of elite development. For my mind its watered down the talent pool for the sake of numbers.

The killer for me is I have seen community club teams (across many clubs) gutted when players run off to SAP. The result is kids left behind leaving the sport because their team folds. I think we would be better to scale back the size of the elite programs, encourage community clubs to improve coaching/development and increase playing season by another 1-2 months (it can be fit in, particularly for mini-roos ages).

Community clubs could then better underpin the elite programs by feeding better players, rather than being seen as places by the SAP clubs to pillage players to get numbers.

nah, im getting the feeling some of you blokes are confusing this SAP program with "things that were done in the beforetime".

SAP program put out calls for trials, the mini roos coaches actively encouraged their 'better' kids to attend.
The 'best' kids from the trials were selected. we certainly didnt have to present a P&L to the committee in order to get Plague Jnr in. He was picked (as one of the 2nd tier players) but he showed some talent and willingness to learn. This year about 10/18 kids lost their spots to new trialists. again, the kids who were there werent guaranteed anything and theres certainly no one in his squad who is there because of money.
I know our club has payment plan options and stuff for parents if the money is an issue. last year it was about double the cost of Mini Roos, but they got twice the football so it was justified.

The SAP program was introduced to combat the "elite development squads" that were around (and still are) that had that reputation for favouring certain kids and letting parents buy their way in.
Our club made a point of telling us this pre-season and i believe them.
SAP teams are a requirement for any club aspiring to get into NPL. im bummed out Cooks Hill didnt get involved, would love to know why they didnt, as they certainly had the juniors to fill squads. Yet it seems their best kids left in order to get a spot. So whos fault is that, the kid for wanting more, or the club for not getting involved?

again, no one has explained to me how the mini roos program is going to expand to make the 'rest' of these kids better. more training, more use of grounds. it all costs money, so who foots the bill?
parents again? ok, so now are we getting back to money being the factor.

thats the question im asking.

plague
13-11-2018, 11:34 AM
So many of the kids in the SAP programs are there to make up the numbers I question the value to the truely elite kids.

actually i wanted to pull this comment out as it is pertinent to this whole topic.
A good bunch of clubs this year had pretty poor performing players in their SAP squads. Much was made of it and it was floated (but not sure if confirmed) that some clubs will be allowed to only field one team this year in order to provide better competition.

this change in structure def seems be done with the quality if kids in mind, and not fielding teams because parents have the money.


again, does this program capture every kid who is good? of course not.
does it do a better job of identifying kids and nurturing it based on ability alone? well its year 2, and its always evolving, but all feedback so far has been about making this program as an antidote for the sins of the past.

sammydog
13-11-2018, 12:35 PM
SAP teams are a requirement for any club aspiring to get into NPL. im bummed out Cooks Hill didnt get involved, would love to know why they didnt, as they certainly had the juniors to fill squads. Yet it seems their best kids left in order to get a spot. So whos fault is that, the kid for wanting more, or the club for not getting involved?

As far as I am aware, and correct me if I am wrong, not all clubs can run a SAP program. It was only open to NPL and NL1 clubs for the Boys and the girls are still Newcastle, Hunter and NNSW.

Football Victoria opened the program up to all clubs to apply for a licence, I am not sure of other confederations. This to me seems like a better system.

For a lot of smaller clubs, this program has a big drain on players. You develop them up and now at the age of 9 the good players move on. That makes development of players beyond this age hard as you are struggling to hold teams together.



again, no one has explained to me how the mini roos program is going to expand to make the 'rest' of these kids better. more training, more use of grounds. it all costs money, so who foots the bill?

parents again? ok, so now are we getting back to money being the factor.

thats the question im asking.

For us, ground use fees don't go up if we play more games or the season is expanded. Only difference in cost may be the electricity bill for running the lights. Perhaps if you are paying coaches there is a cost to be incurred, but at the moment I cant see many mini-roos coaches being paid.

Extending a mini-roos season doesn't need to cost money. Getting coaches educated does.

If we want to improve coaching and get more coaches accredited, follow the Football Victoria model. Open SAP up but have strict guidelines and make clubs apply again each year to weed out the non-compliant ones.

If SAP was open to all clubs, you would have clubs with aspirations actually able to increase their coaching education and attract (or at very least retain) their best kids. In this scenario mini-roos clubs could have a two tiered system within their clubs. Kids that want the extra move into SAP, and those that don't stay in community.

You could argue clubs should already be up-skilling coaches, and I think you will find a lot are, but if you aren't a SAP program no matter how good your coaches are, the kids won't stay.

For discussion, below is details on the victorian system.


Criteria to be a SAP Affiliated Club
Clubs wanting to be recognised as a SAP Affiliated Club will have to meet the following criteria upon submitting their application;

No additional cost to players/parents.
Nominated club member to be SAP Club Co-ordinator who will complete all administrative duties and be the point of contact between FFV SAP and the club.
Coaches for SAP teams must hold a current Skill Training Certificate accreditation or higher.
SAP teams will follow the season plan and sessions designed by the Head of Skill Acquisition at FFV (or approved club season plan and sessions).
All SAP team coaches registered on MyFootballClub with their respective club and team.
After each year clubs will have to re-apply to be recognised as a SAP club. It is intended that the program is delivered to the desired format and philosophy, which will be taken into consideration when reviewing applications each year.

Major Changes to the SAP
Free for clubs to join, so no licence fee!
All clubs in Victoria can now apply to be affiliated with the program, not just NPL/WNPL clubs.
Players involved in the SAP only come from within an affiliated SAP club. Players do not come from outside of the club to join a SAP.*
Team rating in place to recognise clubs, teams and coaches that want to invest in youth development and see the benefit of delivering the Skill Acquisition Program.
New sessions and methodology involving more 'Whole - Part - Whole' sessions.
*Some WNPL and regional NPL clubs who do not have underpinning junior teams will be eligible to offer players external from the WNPL/NPL club the opportunity to join a SAP group. Limits on teams and cost to players will apply in this case.

Retired01
13-11-2018, 01:05 PM
Hi All
Having watched this conversation and also being and involved parent of the U9s SAP I would like to give my 2 cents.

I do support the comments around not being enough good players to spread around the clubs. Strong Teams such as Hamilton, Broadmeadow, Lambton belted teams week in week out.

Adversely...Did the program work..Yes. The standard of the lower teams advanced significantly from start to end of season.
Also observed one stronger teams modify the training program to test their team.

I believe you may see a shift in who are the stronger Clubs next season with teams like Lake Macquarie fielding numerous 8yo last season who will play again.

The season is long enough especially when the little legs are expected to train and play at the lake mac facility. Spoke to many parents and coaches of clubs who were happy to confirm and that surface is tough to be on. Take note of how many ankle and knee injuries happen as part of the FFA Cup games held there.
There are numerous opportunities to play in Futsal and 5 a side comps all across the Hunter. Also Hartley and Wheelhouse groups for the higher levels

Main criticism I have is the standard set for refereeing. As a paying parent (of quite a substantial amount of money) we accepted volunteer referees. many of which were siblings and parents.
Many Club's were witnessed exploiting the familiarity of the referees with sneaky play or foul play as they were in no position to enforce anything. NNSW need to accept that with the so called elite program there will be competitiveness between kids, parents and coaches. But put a system in (which is only equivalent to community football by the way. ie - designated referees) to enforce the basic rules which all need to follow. This simply supports the children's view of what is also expected.

plague
13-11-2018, 01:21 PM
As far as I am aware, and correct me if I am wrong, not all clubs can run a SAP program. It was only open to NPL and NL1 clubs for the Boys and the girls are still Newcastle, Hunter and NNSW.

Football Victoria opened the program up to all clubs to apply for a licence, I am not sure of other confederations. This to me seems like a better system.

For a lot of smaller clubs, this program has a big drain on players. You develop them up and now at the age of 9 the good players move on. That makes development of players beyond this age hard as you are struggling to hold teams together.



For us, ground use fees don't go up if we play more games or the season is expanded. Only difference in cost may be the electricity bill for running the lights. Perhaps if you are paying coaches there is a cost to be incurred, but at the moment I cant see many mini-roos coaches being paid.

Extending a mini-roos season doesn't need to cost money. Getting coaches educated does.

If we want to improve coaching and get more coaches accredited, follow the Football Victoria model. Open SAP up but have strict guidelines and make clubs apply again each year to weed out the non-compliant ones.

If SAP was open to all clubs, you would have clubs with aspirations actually able to increase their coaching education and attract (or at very least retain) their best kids. In this scenario mini-roos clubs could have a two tiered system within their clubs. Kids that want the extra move into SAP, and those that don't stay in community.

You could argue clubs should already be up-skilling coaches, and I think you will find a lot are, but if you aren't a SAP program no matter how good your coaches are, the kids won't stay.

For discussion, below is details on the victorian system.

Excellent post.
Cheers for the feedback (am i right in that you are part of running a club?).

Again, the SAP thing is an ever evolving beast. the clubs freely admit it. Hopefully they take on the Victorian changes, it can only be a good thing.
Has your club been slugged extra in your lighting costs yet? One of the massive increases over the past few seasons for inner city clubs has been a huge increase in the cost of maintaining and running their lights. we def have heard about clubs cutting back on training nights to save cash rather than bump up regos.

Also, yes, the coaching will be a massive problem. its ok for well intentioned mums and dads to run the kids around on a weeknight. and to be fair there are some legit good coaches teaching the kids out there. but yeah, if you want that to improve, and to be consistent across the board, coaches need to be trained. it costs money, and if you multiply that out and add it to the extra time needed to be invested by 'parents' wanting to coach, then does that deter more coaches than it encourages?

but yeah, the costs of grounds and coaches would have to come back to the rego. agree FFA/NNSW 'should' make it easier, but cmon, are they gonna go handing money back to the game?

The SAP thing has been interesting to watch unfold. some clubs can field multiple quality teams, some clubs didnt even trial under 10's, they just kept their kids around from last year and poached any good ones they saw along the way.
(you wont be shocked to hear that those are the clubs that have a reputation for not really developing their youth anyway).

id love to eventually see clubs rewarded at NPL level for 'developing' those kids, and with the absolute top tier of those ids starting to get moved into the Emerging Jets program from about age 12 (i think), the evidence of whether it works is only a few short years away.

plague
13-11-2018, 01:25 PM
For a lot of smaller clubs, this program has a big drain on players. You develop them up and now at the age of 9 the good players move on. That makes development of players beyond this age hard as you are struggling to hold teams together.


just out of curiosity, does seeing the loss of juniors to a program like SAP make your club determined to be involved in SAP, or make you less interested in juniors knowing they might leave?
id assume both answers would be valid in certain circumstances, and hopefully if its the latter then something can be done to avoid it, because obviously thats the exact opposite of whats good for the game.

plague
13-11-2018, 01:36 PM
Main criticism I have is the standard set for refereeing. As a paying parent (of quite a substantial amount of money) we accepted volunteer referees. many of which were siblings and parents.
Many Club's were witnessed exploiting the familiarity of the referees with sneaky play or foul play as they were in no position to enforce anything. NNSW need to accept that with the so called elite program there will be competitiveness between kids, parents and coaches. But put a system in (which is only equivalent to community football by the way. ie - designated referees) to enforce the basic rules which all need to follow. This simply supports the children's view of what is also expected.

yeah can agree here.
we were lucky in that we had a few players at a decent level as parents in our squad so we had plenty of refs who knew not only the rules but also how to ref a game.
but yeah, some clubs were hopelessly underprepared, and some days there were dudes out there who had no idea what they were doing.

i did speak to the NNSW coaches on my own accord about how they wanted games refereed. the 'official' line was that the games didnt matter in the overall scheme of things at that age so they werent overly concerned. off the record i was told just to play lots of advantage (to keep the ball in play) and be generous with the offside rule, except players standing 5m offside waiting for the long ball. i found that as long as you were clear to the coaches before games, there were never any dramas.

can def say that to the kids, the games mattered so the referreeing is important. would love to have seen a couple of sessions with interested parents and a NNSW rep on the nights they train out at the Speers Pt facility to help them out. can only assume that once full field kicks in soon, then proper refs will be appointed.

sammydog
13-11-2018, 01:55 PM
Excellent post.
Cheers for the feedback (am i right in that you are part of running a club?).


Club President.


Again, the SAP thing is an ever evolving beast. the clubs freely admit it. Hopefully they take on the Victorian changes, it can only be a good thing.
Has your club been slugged extra in your lighting costs yet? One of the massive increases over the past few seasons for inner city clubs has been a huge increase in the cost of maintaining and running their lights. we def have heard about clubs cutting back on training nights to save cash rather than bump up regos.


We are a Lake Macquarie club and pay the full electricity costs at the ground, so the lights are part of the power bill we get.

Our lights would run 5 nights a week during the season and at the moment, 2 nights a week during the off-season. The lights are in desperate need of maintenance, but that's a bit out of our budget at the moment. We are focusing on ground upgrades at the moment.


Also, yes, the coaching will be a massive problem. its ok for well intentioned mums and dads to run the kids around on a weeknight. and to be fair there are some legit good coaches teaching the kids out there. but yeah, if you want that to improve, and to be consistent across the board, coaches need to be trained. it costs money, and if you multiply that out and add it to the extra time needed to be invested by 'parents' wanting to coach, then does that deter more coaches than it encourages?

but yeah, the costs of grounds and coaches would have to come back to the rego. agree FFA/NNSW 'should' make it easier, but cmon, are they gonna go handing money back to the game?

We budget so we can allocate money to coaches to undertake coaching courses. The biggest issue is getting people to do courses. As much as money, I think time is an issue for parents.


just out of curiosity, does seeing the loss of juniors to a program like SAP make your club determined to be involved in SAP, or make you less interested in juniors knowing they might leave?
id assume both answers would be valid in certain circumstances, and hopefully if its the latter then something can be done to avoid it, because obviously thats the exact opposite of whats good for the game.

Personally, given the chance I would like to move towards SAP and have both elite and community teams.

Retired01
13-11-2018, 02:13 PM
can def say that to the kids, the games mattered so the referreeing is important. would love to have seen a couple of sessions with interested parents and a NNSW rep on the nights they train out at the Speers Pt facility to help them out. can only assume that once full field kicks in soon, then proper refs will be appointed.

I very much enjoyed the fact that there were multiple clubs playing the so called hub every weekend. It gave everyone, Coaches and parents the time to see just what levels other teams were at.
To be brutally honest there was one team this season that we all desperately tried to beat. Even as a parent I encouraged my son and his mate that they need to play extra well that game and saw many other parents doing the same. Which is awesome as it lends to the competition being competitive and the boys striving to be better (If you don't want winners you should be playing community league).

My son has been selected again and very much enjoying the banter around the future of our kids.

plague
13-11-2018, 02:31 PM
My son has been selected again and very much enjoying the banter around the future of our kids.

yeah an underrated part of all this has been how much the kids are enjoying the competition, and the challenge of it all.
Plague Jnr has played his whole life and he's never had so much fun playing (even though its much more 'serious' now). His coaches are awesome and really know how to inspire him.
ive dreaded it from the start thinking it was going to be full of asshole kids and even bigger asshole parents, but its been the opposite.

i reffed quite a few games and the respect the players, coaches and (98%) of parents showed was outstanding. if anything, these young fellas are excellent ambassadors for their clubs and its pretty awesome as a parent to watch.


except of course in 12 months time when Plague Jnr has a change of heart and wants to take up prefessional breakdancing or something.

Negative Police
13-11-2018, 08:55 PM
For us, ground use fees don't go up if we play more games or the season is expanded. Only difference in cost may be the electricity bill for running the lights. Perhaps if you are paying coaches there is a cost to be incurred, but at the moment I cant see many mini-roos coaches being paid.

Extending a mini-roos season doesn't need to cost money. Getting coaches educated does.

If we want to improve coaching and get more coaches accredited, follow the Football Victoria model. Open SAP up but have strict guidelines and make clubs apply again each year to weed out the non-compliant ones.

If SAP was open to all clubs, you would have clubs with aspirations actually able to increase their coaching education and attract (or at very least retain) their best kids. In this scenario mini-roos clubs could have a two tiered system within their clubs. Kids that want the extra move into SAP, and those that don't stay in community.

You could argue clubs should already be up-skilling coaches, and I think you will find a lot are, but if you aren't a SAP program no matter how good your coaches are, the kids won't stay.

Your club could have done as I suggested earlier. For the 6's to 8's have more skills days either side of the season. So have 4-6 weeks of skills training and 2 games on Sat to reinforce what they learnt during the week. Coaches only need a Skill Training Certificate which is one day course $68.

Also 9's & 10's SAP coaches do not need the C youth licence yet. It is desirable. You can have a TD to oversee. Maybe ZPL ZL1 clubs should be allowed a SAP team in order to keep club kids. And if there are way too many teams then NF, HV and Mac clubs can for 2 comps. I aslo think that eventually most talented kids seem to end up at the same 2 clubs anyway.

plague
13-11-2018, 09:40 PM
I aslo think that eventually most talented kids seem to end up at the same 2 clubs anyway.

lets just assume we are talking about the same 2 clubs here. and yes, they were very strong this season. but there was another club that was every bit as good. this club has gone out and poached (sorry...invited to trial) even better kids than they had and i expect them to be the standard this year.
then theres another club who beat both of the 2 clubs you talked about, and a third club who i saw play them really really well.

thing is, the 'other' 3 clubs i mentioned all have massive junior bases, and seem to be taking the SAP thing really seriously.
if they play their cards right, they should all be the power in the NPL within the next 5 years or so, because by the time these kids turn 17, the 'lure' of the traditional big clubs wont be as strong if they've been brought through in a dominant environment.


the 2 clubs i assume you're talking about dont seem to care about it too much, it will be interesting to see if they have the same pull in a few years time.

sammydog
13-11-2018, 10:28 PM
Your club could have done as I suggested earlier. For the 6's to 8's have more skills days either side of the season. So have 4-6 weeks of skills training and 2 games on Sat to reinforce what they learnt during the week. Coaches only need a Skill Training Certificate which is one day course $68.

Also 9's & 10's SAP coaches do not need the C youth licence yet. It is desirable. You can have a TD to oversee. Maybe ZPL ZL1 clubs should be allowed a SAP team in order to keep club kids. And if there are way too many teams then NF, HV and Mac clubs can for 2 comps. I aslo think that eventually most talented kids seem to end up at the same 2 clubs anyway.

We've actually set up clinics that started this school term for kids 4-7 and 7-12. We will run them each school term and see how they go. Demand will be bigger outside of the season, but it sounds like some are keen during the season.

Turn out has been better than expected for a first session, so we will see where it takes us.

Its a good point about ZPL and ZL1 clubs. Typically for us, by the time our teams reach U12 they have been whittled down as players move to development programs and we struggle to keep teams above this age. The flow on is we don't have a big flow of juniors into ZL.

I think this year if we pull a couple of things off, we may reverse this, but the ability to actually have a SAP (which we would jump at) would make retention of the SAP years a lot better. Obviously the best kids will still want to (and should) play NPL or NL1, but I think we would retain a lot more than we currently do.

Goatscheese
13-11-2018, 10:36 PM
Not sure why we have decided to go back focusing just on SAP when that is the entire issue. Though not surprised when the response to my last post willfully ignored what was typed and went on a tangent

This article sums it up well; More players playing for longer (no point having a small pool of players), bottom-up approach (which we don't have and is that we need more kids doing it to increase the available pool of talent)

https://www.goal.com/en-au/news/matt-sim-australias-football-culture-is-wrong-kids-need-to/1oy98jvzg4yco1cg27zo87vq4f

Retired01
14-11-2018, 07:19 AM
lets just assume we are talking about the same 2 clubs here. and yes, they were very strong this season. but there was another club that was every bit as good. this club has gone out and poached (sorry...invited to trial) even better kids than they had and i expect them to be the standard this year.
then theres another club who beat both of the 2 clubs you talked about, and a third club who i saw play them really really well.

thing is, the 'other' 3 clubs i mentioned all have massive junior bases, and seem to be taking the SAP thing really seriously.
if they play their cards right, they should all be the power in the NPL within the next 5 years or so, because by the time these kids turn 17, the 'lure' of the traditional big clubs wont be as strong if they've been brought through in a dominant environment.


the 2 clubs i assume you're talking about dont seem to care about it too much, it will be interesting to see if they have the same pull in a few years time.

That was very confusing.
As a parent of what I believe to be probably mid range team the better teams were
Hamilton
1 Very strong team which I know came across from Warners Bay, Their other team also very strong
They kept them all for next season

Lambton
2 very good teams and had more trials this year to build onto an already strong base

Broadmeadow
1 very good team and another mid table team which were all Broadmeadow Juniors

plague
14-11-2018, 08:49 AM
Not sure why we have decided to go back focusing just on SAP when that is the entire issue. Though not surprised when the response to my last post willfully ignored what was typed and went on a tangent

This article sums it up well; More players playing for longer (no point having a small pool of players), bottom-up approach (which we don't have and is that we need more kids doing it to increase the available pool of talent)

https://www.goal.com/en-au/news/matt-sim-australias-football-culture-is-wrong-kids-need-to/1oy98jvzg4yco1cg27zo87vq4f

we are not just going back to SAP all the time.
What we are doing is getting the points of view of parents who are in the middle of the development system putting down on paper the ins and outs of the current program for people to understand. we also have the president of a club offering up a unique perspective on what its like trying to answer the questions you are asking.

now I read that article, and it pretty much states exactly what youve said. and look, i dont think theres anyone on here that disagrees wiht the premise that more kids + more football = better long term results.

but.

the article doesnt offer any solutions. its just states the obvious. all ive ever asked is how do we realistically go about implementing what that article brings up.

if we need more ground availability, ok. who pays for the 12 month access (and who fights cricket to kick them off)?
we need more/better coaches, ok, do they work for free, who pays them?

the article looked at the Japanese approach. now personally i love the Japanese approach to their football program, and their 100 year plan initiative.
but from reading, it looks like Spain and Germany start junior development a little later. whos approach is better? do we have any injury/burnout data on kids starting so early and on artificial pitches like they do in Japan?

plenty of questions dude, feel free to help answer them. i appreciate anyone on here to give their perspective.



(oh and if you hate people going on tangents, steer clear of the tennis thread and the politics thread).

plague
14-11-2018, 08:54 AM
That was very confusing.
As a parent of what I believe to be probably mid range team the better teams were
Hamilton
1 Very strong team which I know came across from Warners Bay, Their other team also very strong
They kept them all for next season

Lambton
2 very good teams and had more trials this year to build onto an already strong base

Broadmeadow
1 very good team and another mid table team which were all Broadmeadow Juniors

hahaha, confusing is what i do best (mostly to myself).
your top 3 teams are exactly how I saw it.

the other 2 clubs i thought did well and have a huge upside (based on junior numbers) were New Lambton and Valentine.
Also thought Edgeworth were excellent and probably the biggest improvers over the whole season.

Retired01
14-11-2018, 10:33 AM
To me the base skill requirements worked - From my observations the weaker teams showed great improvement bringing the teams closer together at season end. Proving the system works where there is easy development to be made in core skills.
Those top teams were strong all year and in my opinion now getting into areas of football strategy so they were only making small increments of improvement across the season. (Simply my observation as we all witnessed the way they played the ball around and moved with structure)
For its kick off season I felt it worked well bringing the overall level of football up.
NNSW has added a new level in the TSP which will be excellent for those kids now at a strategic level to move forward also.

I feel Lake Macquarie and Valentine were the biggest improvers football wise. Where other teams (2 clubs come to mind) games moved to more physical (that's the polite word) game to cover there lack of ability. That's simply a reflection of coaching though not the kids and I'm sure parents can assist to resolve that.

The Dunster
14-11-2018, 10:39 AM
The biggest issue is losing kids to other codes rather than not starting them early enough.
When I was a kid the best footballers tended to play cricket in the summer and either Aussie rules or football in the winter with Little Athletics thrown into the mix as well.
The names won't mean anything to anyone here but the best junior players I remember either became cricketers or played VFL / AFL or Rugby League / Union.
I still think it's beneficial for kids to play as many sports as they can but making football as attractive as other codes or sports as a career is still an uphill battle when it comes to recruiting the best junior athletes.
Like it or not - we have the kids capable of winning us a world cup but unfortunately most of them will be lost to other codes / sports.
I think it's changing a little but not enough - hopefully these programs and others can address the problem better than we did in my day.

plague
14-11-2018, 10:59 AM
NNSW has added a new level in the TSP which will be excellent for those kids now at a strategic level to move forward also.


What's the TSP?

MFKS
14-11-2018, 12:10 PM
we are not just going back to SAP all the time.
What we are doing is getting the points of view of parents who are in the middle of the development system putting down on paper the ins and outs of the current program for people to understand. we also have the president of a club offering up a unique perspective on what its like trying to answer the questions you are asking.

now I read that article, and it pretty much states exactly what youve said. and look, i dont think theres anyone on here that disagrees wiht the premise that more kids + more football = better long term results.

but.

the article doesnt offer any solutions. its just states the obvious. all ive ever asked is how do we realistically go about implementing what that article brings up.

if we need more ground availability, ok. who pays for the 12 month access (and who fights cricket to kick them off)?
we need more/better coaches, ok, do they work for free, who pays them?

the article looked at the Japanese approach. now personally i love the Japanese approach to their football program, and their 100 year plan initiative.
but from reading, it looks like Spain and Germany start junior development a little later. whos approach is better? do we have any injury/burnout data on kids starting so early and on artificial pitches like they do in Japan?

plenty of questions dude, feel free to help answer them. i appreciate anyone on here to give their perspective.



(oh and if you hate people going on tangents, steer clear of the tennis thread and the politics thread).

That should be led by the FFA

They should be more than happy to pick fights and start treading on the toes of other sports

We are the biggest player in the room and the FFA currently spend far too much time being a subservient bitch cowering in the corner to AFL NRL and Cricket

All activities of our sport should be geared to what is best to our sport and if it puts us in competition with someone else then.we should embrace it asnd not back down

If it means we have to trample on crickets season for pitch access then we do it

Time we put ourselves first and gave a one fingered salure to the haters

plague
14-11-2018, 12:24 PM
That should be led by the FFA

They should be more than happy to pick fights and start treading on the toes of other sports

We are the biggest player in the room and the FFA currently spend far too much time being a subservient bitch cowering in the corner to AFL NRL and Cricket

All activities of our sport should be geared to what is best to our sport and if it puts us in competition with someone else then.we should embrace it asnd not back down

If it means we have to trample on crickets season for pitch access then we do it

Time we put ourselves first and gave a one fingered salure to the haters

not even sure they need to "tread on toes". They just need to own their own facilities.
Then, like the AFL, you control your own destiny.
They have done that at Speers Point, and its being utilised for the development of youth football as well as catering to social players and elite players.
awesome.
now id love to see one of those same facilities at Natoinal Park, or the tennis courts at Broadmeadow, and one up the Valley too.

but.

whos gonna pay for it?
all the while FFA not having enough cash to fund their own Stadiums, or much other infrastructure.

There are battles to be won all over the place, and the FFA doesnt 'seem' to have the resources to take every challenge on.

Just throwing out a "the FFA should fix it" is both lazy and naive.

MFKS
14-11-2018, 02:34 PM
not even sure they need to "tread on toes". They just need to own their own facilities.
Then, like the AFL, you control your own destiny.
They have done that at Speers Point, and its being utilised for the development of youth football as well as catering to social players and elite players.
awesome.
now id love to see one of those same facilities at Natoinal Park, or the tennis courts at Broadmeadow, and one up the Valley too.

but.

whos gonna pay for it?
all the while FFA not having enough cash to fund their own Stadiums, or much other infrastructure.

There are battles to be won all over the place, and the FFA doesnt 'seem' to have the resources to take every challenge on.

Just throwing out a "the FFA should fix it" is both lazy and naive.
This is though still their fault

AFL and Football are where they are right now due to the management of their codes in the last 40 years

That we have no assets says a lot about the failings of Lowy over the last 15 years. He should understand the concept of on asset with his wealth but he leaves the game with nothing

As for your point it is not the FFAs fault.

FMD it is their ****ing model that we have to endure

It is their decisions that have led us to the point we have a closed shop top flight with no 2nd division a game that is shown on a dead end entity in Pay TV so loses exposure to the bulk of the ****ing public a divided supporter base between old soccer and new football junior rego fees are sky high NCIP divided the code on race and everything aboyt junior development isnt about development it is about creating avenues for parasites to suck money out of the code by being employed in football etc


No these guys running the game have been asleep at the wheel for so long to allow all this shit to occur

Retired01
14-11-2018, 02:45 PM
What's the TSP?

I don't actually know what it is for certain
Talent Selection Program??

I rang a friend to get the details..as best I could. (still didn't ask what TSP actually stood for)

Clubs were asked to nominate potential kids wanting to participate. Then NNSW selected a core group to trial and go into this higher program next year
Trial is next week.

Negative Police
14-11-2018, 06:08 PM
TSP Talent Support Program. At this stage 1 night a week at Speersy.

I think this is a way to sort the 300 players into around 30 for future NNSW teams can be chosen to represent the area. Also to push the best in the age at this time.

Negative Police
14-11-2018, 06:20 PM
It is their decisions that have led us to the point we have a closed shop top flight with no 2nd division a game that is shown on a dead end entity in Pay TV so loses exposure to the bulk of the ****ing public a divided supporter base between old soccer and new football junior rego fees are sky high NCIP divided the code on race and everything aboyt junior development isnt about development it is about creating avenues for parasites to suck money out of the code by being employed in football etc


Incorrect. The game was a basket case before lowy, no 2nd div, not paytv, no interest from 98% of the country. It was a lot cheaper because there was nothing to pay for.
And we scraped a decent national team together despite the non existence of skills set pathways. Thank god for determined parents.
Lowy put the national competition on the map. Sure it isnt near where we'd like it but a great job to get it started. And did your team get a word changed in their name? oh no Tsunami stuff. Now take a tissue MFKleenex.

380
14-11-2018, 06:49 PM
Overpopulated pathways with no other motive than to raise money. You can't find a good kid now with potential because he or she is lost in a crowd of average revenue raisers.

MFKS
14-11-2018, 08:05 PM
Incorrect. The game was a basket case before lowy, no 2nd div, not paytv, no interest from 98% of the country. It was a lot cheaper because there was nothing to pay for.
And we scraped a decent national team together despite the non existence of skills set pathways. Thank god for determined parents.
Lowy put the national competition on the map. Sure it isnt near where we'd like it but but a great job to get started. And did your team get a word changed in their name? oh no Tsunami stuff. Now take a tissue MFKleenex.

The game is just as much if not more of a basketcase now Lowy has had his go as it was before he came on the scene

It just costs a shitload more

The game in the 90s and 00s no doubt had issues but to claim it was any more disfunctional than it is now is having a laugh

1 positive Lowy delivered was getting us in to the AFC
The rest of his so called achievements are negligible really

As for us scraping a decent NT together we done this because of a national league set up that actually encouraged clubs to develop players because doing so gave them the opportunity to get a pay day plus we had the AIS and a National Yoof league

The peabrains under Lowy have eroded this for a bunch of Dutch Mango Suckers to get a pay cheque with no performance KPIs in their role

You want to see how out of touch the dumb ****s are

The last few days they comissioned into action a surcey on the NCIP

If these dumb ****s need to pay consulatants to find out what needs doing then they needto go

Negative Police
14-11-2018, 10:25 PM
Overpopulated pathways with no other motive than to raise money. You can't find a good kid now with potential because he or she is lost in a crowd of average revenue raisers.

Overpopulated, yep, better than being under like it used to be.
Raise money - definitely overpriced
You wont find too many good kids with potential because most are now wrapped up in this new scheme. And yes some will fall off, burn out, not improve as they thought or be surpassed by others next year who missed trials or skilled up else where.

It isnt the be all but it is casting a wide net and is getting more kids to acquire far more core skills at a younger age then Ive ever seen.

Mind you we had U8 reps in the late 70's and we were picked on speed, agility, aggression, positioning, vision. Put a kid sideways into a fence and you're in. First touch was a myth.

The Dunster
15-11-2018, 12:13 PM
Overpopulated pathways with no other motive than to raise money. You can't find a good kid now with potential because he or she is lost in a crowd of average revenue raisers.

As long as the kids whose parents have money are getting a run it won't be a problem. If kids were actually selected on merit the system would collapse when the cashed up parents gathered with pitchforks and torches.

Negative Police
17-11-2018, 02:30 PM
The game is just as much if not more of a basketcase now Lowy has had his go as it was before he came on the scene

It just costs a shitload more

The game in the 90s and 00s no doubt had issues but to claim it was any more disfunctional than it is now is having a laugh

1 positive Lowy delivered was getting us in to the AFC
The rest of his so called achievements are negligible really

As for us scraping a decent NT together we done this because of a national league set up that actually encouraged clubs to develop players because doing so gave them the opportunity to get a pay day plus we had the AIS and a National Yoof league

The peabrains under Lowy have eroded this for a bunch of Dutch Mango Suckers to get a pay cheque with no performance KPIs in their role

You want to see how out of touch the dumb ****s are

The last few days they comissioned into action a surcey on the NCIP

If these dumb ****s need to pay consulatants to find out what needs doing then they needto go

Nah. The NT was in spite of the NSL.

The organisation of HAL has just come crashing into a dribbling mess without Lowy. Now there is more infighting, new franchises trying to buy or hack their way in. Of course Lowy didnt have it all but had more than anything before and now after.

Back to grassroots.
All Magic SAP teams are currently having Saturday gym training sessions, core strengthening, physio work, Beep test, hot cold water treatment on Saturdays.

plague
17-11-2018, 03:38 PM
Back to grassroots.
All Magic SAP teams are currently having Saturday gym training sessions, core strengthening, physio work, Beep test, hot cold water treatment on Saturdays.

What ages? 9 and 10 year olds?
Cant be true.

MFKS
17-11-2018, 04:12 PM
What ages? 9 and 10 year olds?
Cant be true.

What the **** do you need gym sessions for at that age ??

Kids wouldnt need the muscle mass with their bodies still growing


Surely a piss take rumour??

Negative Police
17-11-2018, 05:48 PM
What ages? 9 and 10 year olds?
Cant be true.

Yep. True. Ive talked to some players/parents. They are very serious about it all. Even surprised some parents. Interesting.

The gym sessions for younger kids include pushups, chinups, bridges, lunges, to name a few. Swim rehab sessions on Monday for some. Not sure about small weights.

MFKS
17-11-2018, 06:12 PM
Yep. True. Ive talked to some players/parents. They are very serious about it all. Even surprised some parents. Interesting.

The gym sessions for younger kids include pushups, chinups, bridges, lunges, to name a few. Swim rehab sessions on Monday for some. Not sure about small weights.

Should kids at that age not be naturally active enough or is the world ****ed up that much these days that 9/10 year old kids aint fit enough to run around an oval for an hour and a bit??

plague
17-11-2018, 07:52 PM
Yep. True. Ive talked to some players/parents. They are very serious about it all. Even surprised some parents. Interesting.

The gym sessions for younger kids include pushups, chinups, bridges, lunges, to name a few. Swim rehab sessions on Monday for some. Not sure about small weights.

Not since Spencer Prior came on the Foz have i been so sucked in by a thread.
i aint calling you a liar, and im dam sure Magic 'would' be like that.
but legit though. this cant be real life.

Negative Police
17-11-2018, 08:25 PM
Should kids at that age not be naturally active enough or is the world ****ed up that much these days that 9/10 year old kids aint fit enough to run around an oval for an hour and a bit??

For sure. Incidental fitness at this age. I think focusing on positioning, vision should be enough on top of all the core ball control skills and fending stuff.

But when one feels the need to be as professional as possible this happens i guess. See how results go

Negative Police
17-11-2018, 08:30 PM
Not since Spencer Prior came on the Foz have i been so sucked in by a thread.
i aint calling you a liar, and im dam sure Magic 'would' be like that.
but legit though. this cant be real life.
Most stuff on here is opinion or here say but get with the times mate.

I know a Junior Jets coach has come to Magic juniors this year. Seems to be a bit a swapsy going on between the 2 clubs. Maybe Magic are Jets feeder.

plague
17-11-2018, 09:40 PM
Most stuff on here is opinion or here say but get with the times mate.


oh for sure.
you could have told me Magic had U/9's running sand hills til they vominted and i would not 'not' believe you.

Hunter403
18-11-2018, 10:26 AM
9 and 10 year olds should be learning how to take a good first touch and pass/strike the ball with accuracy. Most of our A League players can't manage it so maybe we should start there. Let's master the basic skills, as our Asian neighbours are doing. Bigger, stronger, faster doesn't work anymore. Look at our National Youth teams and their results.
You want your 9 and 1o year old to be fit: put away the screen and get them on their bikes etc. Join a swim club in the off season: best exercise building upper body and lung capacity.
Ice baths, gym sessions....what BS.

Goatscheese
18-11-2018, 10:50 AM
What the **** do you need gym sessions for at that age ??

Kids wouldnt need the muscle mass with their bodies still growing


Surely a piss take rumour??

Hope so, otherwise it is doing future damage to the children's physical development.

Bremsstrahlung
18-11-2018, 06:31 PM
Not sure bodyweight exercises such as those mentioned really count as gym sessions... maybe they do it in a gym.

MFKS
18-11-2018, 08:17 PM
9 and 10 year olds should be learning how to take a good first touch and pass/strike the ball with accuracy. Most of our A League players can't manage it so maybe we should start there. Let's master the basic skills, as our Asian neighbours are doing. Bigger, stronger, faster doesn't work anymore. Look at our National Youth teams and their results.
You want your 9 and 1o year old to be fit: put away the screen and get them on their bikes etc. Join a swim club in the off season: best exercise building upper body and lung capacity.
Ice baths, gym sessions....what BS.

Why is it always about the ball mastery though

Watching the Socceroos game last night it was evident that some little things the Koreans were doing that we dont do

Anticipation - There were times there were the Koreans would just flood areas of the park and get numbers arounnd the ball knowing they were odds on to pickup possession

These guys were actually doing it instinctively before the ball was played there

Contrast this with our guys who wait to the ball is there then react

Urgency- The amount of times a Korean woulkd come from the clouds to sace his team was phenomenal. When we looked like we had them in trouble someone jumped im to save their arse

Contrast that with Sainsburys effort for the goal and the complete lkack of assistance from his teammates

These aint skills with ball skills but these are football smarts

And it is high time we started teaching them


It blows my mind that we focus on trying to create The Aussie Messi yet we could easily get ourselves 6 Aussie Maldinis as defending doesnt require ball mastery but different skill sets and abes a result of oyr Aussie Maldinis be a much better side as we can actually ****ing defend fpr a change

We have played 10 games in the last 4 World Cups and we havent once kept a ****ing clean sheet nor have we ever looked capable of doing so

plague
18-11-2018, 08:44 PM
Why is it always about the ball mastery though

Watching the Socceroos game last night it was evident that some little things the Koreans were doing that we dont do

Anticipation - There were times there were the Koreans would just flood areas of the park and get numbers arounnd the ball knowing they were odds on to pickup possession

These guys were actually doing it instinctively before the ball was played there

Contrast this with our guys who wait to the ball is there then react

Urgency- The amount of times a Korean woulkd come from the clouds to sace his team was phenomenal. When we looked like we had them in trouble someone jumped im to save their arse

Contrast that with Sainsburys effort for the goal and the complete lkack of assistance from his teammates

These aint skills with ball skills but these are football smarts

And it is high time we started teaching them


It blows my mind that we focus on trying to create The Aussie Messi yet we could easily get ourselves 6 Aussie Maldinis as defending doesnt require ball mastery but different skill sets and abes a result of oyr Aussie Maldinis be a much better side as we can actually ****ing defend fpr a change

We have played 10 games in the last 4 World Cups and we havent once kept a ****ing clean sheet nor have we ever looked capable of doing so

because football starts with the ability to be comfortable and confident with the ball.
all the other stuff can be taught as games become more important.

but if kids get to 15/16 and still cant use both feet then they are in all sorts anyway.

which brings up some fond memories.
a couple of the better kids at that age are really good dribblers, but so one footed its not funny. yet every time they score with poor technique a lot of coaches are too busy celebrating to point out the flaw.

there was one coach i noticed who continually instructed (and applauded) his strikers to hit with the weaker foot when it warranted. 90% of the time the shot was ineffective, and prob on a lot of occasions the kid could have gone around onto his better foot to score.
but if he can get that kid using 2 strong feet by the time hes 12, then he'll be light years ahead of all these "talented" kids scoring more goals today.

it def stood out as a coach making the kids better over results at age 9.

plague
18-11-2018, 08:48 PM
Anticipation - There were times there were the Koreans would just flood areas of the park and get numbers arounnd the ball knowing they were odds on to pickup possession

but isnt that just the way football is played now, with full park pressing, just like Barca made 'famous'....which of course was from the Dutch system that you hate so much.

Hunter403
20-11-2018, 08:44 AM
because football starts with the ability to be comfortable and confident with the ball.
all the other stuff can be taught as games become more important.

but if kids get to 15/16 and still cant use both feet then they are in all sorts anyway.

which brings up some fond memories.
a couple of the better kids at that age are really good dribblers, but so one footed its not funny. yet every time they score with poor technique a lot of coaches are too busy celebrating to point out the flaw.

there was one coach i noticed who continually instructed (and applauded) his strikers to hit with the weaker foot when it warranted. 90% of the time the shot was ineffective, and prob on a lot of occasions the kid could have gone around onto his better foot to score.
but if he can get that kid using 2 strong feet by the time hes 12, then he'll be light years ahead of all these "talented" kids scoring more goals today.

it def stood out as a coach making the kids better over results at age 9.

Agree whole heartedly.

Way too many junior coaches go for victory over improvement. I don't care if the side I coach win or lose, as long as they improve as players. Leave winning as priority number one to senior teams. Anything under 16 should be about mastering the ball and learning the game.

Retired01
20-11-2018, 02:39 PM
Agree whole heartedly.

Way too many junior coaches go for victory over improvement. I don't care if the side I coach win or lose, as long as they improve as players. Leave winning as priority number one to senior teams. Anything under 16 should be about mastering the ball and learning the game.

So as a coach. Can you tell me why so many clubs, including my son's didn't rotate positions when the overview provided by NNSW was that all kids would rotate to learn positions? I'm assuming you were a SAP coach
Was this just NNSW not having the commitment to enforce their policy as clubs just ignored it?

I'm being mindful that most of us needed to stay in position to compete with some clubs too. But others just did it to drive teams into the dust.
Total waste of the program directive

plague
20-11-2018, 03:20 PM
So as a coach. Can you tell me why so many clubs, including my son's didn't rotate positions when the overview provided by NNSW was that all kids would rotate to learn positions? I'm assuming you were a SAP coach
Was this just NNSW not having the commitment to enforce their policy as clubs just ignored it?

I'm being mindful that most of us needed to stay in position to compete with some clubs too. But others just did it to drive teams into the dust.
Total waste of the program directive

Yeah this was def a disregard for the program. The NNSW coaches were right onto enforcing the program when teams trained out at Speers Pt. Maybe teams who didnt spend as much time there didnt deem it as necessary?

In the coaches defense though, the kids also wanted to win, and against 'better' teams they wanted to play in their preferred positions.

Plague Jnrs coach def made him play every position, and it helped his football immensely.

Negative Police
20-11-2018, 05:14 PM
So as a coach. Can you tell me why so many clubs, including my son's didn't rotate positions when the overview provided by NNSW was that all kids would rotate to learn positions? I'm assuming you were a SAP coach
Was this just NNSW not having the commitment to enforce their policy as clubs just ignored it?


Yeah that's not good. Especially if the kid is stuck in a non preferred.

I also think some parents would also rather see results over position swapping. They see their kid doing their bit to make other parents happy about him being in the team. Make sense?

MFKS
20-11-2018, 05:44 PM
because football starts with the ability to be comfortable and confident with the ball.
all the other stuff can be taught as games become more important.

but if kids get to 15/16 and still cant use both feet then they are in all sorts anyway.

which brings up some fond memories.
a couple of the better kids at that age are really good dribblers, but so one footed its not funny. yet every time they score with poor technique a lot of coaches are too busy celebrating to point out the flaw.

there was one coach i noticed who continually instructed (and applauded) his strikers to hit with the weaker foot when it warranted. 90% of the time the shot was ineffective, and prob on a lot of occasions the kid could have gone around onto his better foot to score.
but if he can get that kid using 2 strong feet by the time hes 12, then he'll be light years ahead of all these "talented" kids scoring more goals today.

it def stood out as a coach making the kids better over results at age 9.

Disagree there Plague
It is poorly taught at a later age as an after thought

It is exactly why we get blokes like Boogaard and Robbie Cornflakes and Tarek Elrich and Alex Wilkinson being less than impressive at defending

Kids need to also be taught to actually tackle and learn the basics of defending also at a young age or we see these piss poor technical flaws again and again at the top level

You look at all 5 goals we conceded at the WC
All honking amatuer defensive errors

Risdon needless going to ground for Griezemanns penalty
Behichs incompetence to not use the correct foot to strike the ball for the oggy
Mooys piss poor tracking on Erikson in the Denmark game
Perus first goal we had 6 defenders back in our box on 3 and the bloke who scored was unmarked Plus the defending from the initial long ball was honking
Perus 2nd goal 6 defenders back in the box on 4 (technically3 due to 1 being massively passive offside and out of the equation) yet the bloke who scores gets a free pass to move to and turn on the ball before firing home

These are glaring technical faults that are not the hardest to fix

#Amatuer hour

All these technical skills you want to learn at being comfortable on the ball are actually increased when the defensive quality and pressure that players are put under is increased

This is why these Dutch Mango suckers have it all wrong

There is no one fix to football in this country like they would have us believe with their shitful 4-3-3 possession tactic as the only metod

It requires a combination of many methods to be successful and their are two components to the game attacking and defending

And it pays to be proficient in both of them to be successful

The Dunster
20-11-2018, 05:54 PM
because football starts with the ability to be comfortable and confident with the ball.
all the other stuff can be taught as games become more important.

but if kids get to 15/16 and still cant use both feet then they are in all sorts anyway.

which brings up some fond memories.
a couple of the better kids at that age are really good dribblers, but so one footed its not funny. yet every time they score with poor technique a lot of coaches are too busy celebrating to point out the flaw.

there was one coach i noticed who continually instructed (and applauded) his strikers to hit with the weaker foot when it warranted. 90% of the time the shot was ineffective, and prob on a lot of occasions the kid could have gone around onto his better foot to score.
but if he can get that kid using 2 strong feet by the time hes 12, then he'll be light years ahead of all these "talented" kids scoring more goals today.

it def stood out as a coach making the kids better over results at age 9.

You are taking the piss here ? Robben, Maradona, Puskus, Giggs, Bale, Beckham, Hagi, Rivaldo, Carlos, Messi... and the list goes on.
Lots of two footed players as well such as Cryuff, Pele, Zidane, Nedved, Best.. and so on.

It simply doesn't matter if you use one foot or two - it's about putting the ball in the back of the net.

Hunter403
20-11-2018, 06:04 PM
So as a coach. Can you tell me why so many clubs, including my son's didn't rotate positions when the overview provided by NNSW was that all kids would rotate to learn positions? I'm assuming you were a SAP coach
Was this just NNSW not having the commitment to enforce their policy as clubs just ignored it?

I'm being mindful that most of us needed to stay in position to compete with some clubs too. But others just did it to drive teams into the dust.
Total waste of the program directive

I can't speak for what clubs do in SAP. I'm a NEWFM coach.

I can tell you that if I were a SAP coach, I would rotate positions. I did it in NEWFM often enough last year and will do so this season.

NNSW send assessors to watch NPL. the clubs take those assessments and, I am told, ignore them. I think NNSW would be better placed to watch the SAP, and maybe they do, but as I don't go and watch SAP I cannot say if they do or don't

plague
20-11-2018, 07:06 PM
You are taking the piss here ? Robben, Maradona, Puskus, Giggs, Bale, Beckham, Hagi, Rivaldo, Carlos, Messi... and the list goes on.
Lots of two footed players as well such as Cryuff, Pele, Zidane, Nedved, Best.. and so on.

It simply doesn't matter if you use one foot or two - it's about putting the ball in the back of the net.

Nah, if you think Messi is 'one footed' then i dont know what to tell you.
yes, he has one foot stronger than the other, but im talking about kids getting 1 on 1 with the keeper then stopping so they can run around the ball to get it on their good side rather than have the confidence and ability to hit it with their weaker foot in one motion.
once they get to any decent level they wont have this extra time to re-adjust. Defenders will not allow it.

again, the coaches are coached to get the players to be able to make the best decision, and utilise their best skill set.
some coaches just wanna get that win over the other mob.

plague
20-11-2018, 07:11 PM
It requires a combination of many methods to be successful and their are two components to the game attacking and defending

And it pays to be proficient in both of them to be successful

ok, lets be clear. the kids at U/9 level are taught one on one defending.
they are taught body position, how to use sidelines, how to hold up a player, when and how to best attack the ball when an opponent is attacking them.
one on one drills are one of the most repeated skills in the training sessions, as it makes the defenders and attackers better.

the kids are not (supposed to be) taught about back 3's or 4's, overall positioning, offside traps etc.
that stuff is clearly mandated that it will be introduced once they get to full field and 11 v 11. the FFA deemed it more important to teach the technique of one on one defending at that age.

plague
20-11-2018, 07:17 PM
I also think some parents would also rather see results over position swapping. They see their kid doing their bit to make other parents happy about him being in the team. Make sense?

yeah this is a very good point.
there are def some parents out there who trialled their kid at multiple 'better' teams in year 2 vs where they were in year 1.
i found this interesting as the kid may not get a better footballing education, but they will prob win more games.
sometimes it might be better to stand out in a lesser team than be one of the squad in a good team.

sammydog
20-11-2018, 11:13 PM
Yeah this was def a disregard for the program. The NNSW coaches were right onto enforcing the program when teams trained out at Speers Pt. Maybe teams who didnt spend as much time there didnt deem it as necessary?

In the coaches defense though, the kids also wanted to win, and against 'better' teams they wanted to play in their preferred positions.

Plague Jnrs coach def made him play every position, and it helped his football immensely.

I don't coach SAP, but I do coach an U12 girls team. Ive been with them since U6 so know the girls and their playing style pretty well.

The rotating of positions is an interesting one. I do it for most of the players, but others are so suited (and want to play) specific positions that I play them there. Ive got some defenders that say they want a run up front. I'll put them there for a game and within 5 minutes they are back in the backline. Every time, at half time they say they want to go back into defence.

Ive never adopted a win at all costs approach, but you do see it with some teams. We have focused on learning to play the ball out from the back. At the same time I want my girls in the midfield and up front to feel free to run at players and take them on, not just be a robot and pass to the next person. Sometimes it works, sometimes we have a good laugh on the sideline. We went through the younger ages getting belted, but as the field got bigger, things have swapped around.

Negative Police
21-11-2018, 12:41 AM
there are def some parents out there who trialled their kid at multiple 'better' teams in year 2 vs where they were in year 1.
i found this interesting as the kid may not get a better footballing education, but they will prob win more games.
sometimes it might be better to stand out in a lesser team than be one of the squad in a good team.

This is very disappointing.
That club should have a chance to strengthen the team not chase new players.

As I said previously the more time in junior football the chance of the best juniors moving to the 2 popular clubs is closer to 1.