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Premy
11-11-2014, 09:29 AM
The Great modern Football debate.

2 years ago I would have said Lionel but it seems he has somewhat plateaued over the last few years. Cristiano however is going from strength to strength, I read somewhere the other day that he has scored something like 195 La liga goals in 170 games or something pretty impressive.

For me my vote is CR7.

Premy
11-11-2014, 09:30 AM
Mods feel free to create a poll (with the slobs option of course) as I'm on my phone and can't work out how to do it on here.

plague
11-11-2014, 09:47 AM
Iniesta is better than both of them.
(Would still vote Slobs in poll though).

pv4
11-11-2014, 09:49 AM
I honestly watch sfa Spanish league games as I get quite bored during them, so I don't get to see either player week-in week-out.

They're both phenomenal.

Grimario
11-11-2014, 10:04 AM
Both are amazing but Ronaldo is better because he did the business on a cold rainy night at Stoke.

parksey
11-11-2014, 11:41 AM
Ronaldo is the most complete footballer in the world and has been for years.

Of course Messi is also a phenomenon but as premy said he's not looked anywhere near the player we expect for the last 18 months or so. A lot of the praise he gets is purely based on reputation and the fact that he's not Ronaldo.

MFKS
11-11-2014, 12:40 PM
Argentine Dwarf Decline >>> Lack of Drugs:whistling::whistling:

plague
11-11-2014, 12:48 PM
Ronaldo is the most complete footballer in the world and has been for years.


While a i agree 100% that Ronaldo is the best attacking footballer on the planet right now to call either him or Messi "complete" is something i disagree with. They are both phenomenal attackers but in terms of defending and general play id say there are more 'complete' footballers.

Actually to expand on the original question if you were starting a team and could have one player from anywhere in the world (other than Griff) who would you pick to give you the best chance of winning games?

Id still say Iniesta.

gogogogogogo

pv4
11-11-2014, 12:52 PM
Actually to expand on the original question if you were starting a team and could have one player from anywhere in the world (other than Griff) who would you pick to give you the best chance of winning games?

Id still say Iniesta.

gogogogogogo

http://statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cesc.jpg

cobra23
11-11-2014, 12:54 PM
ronaldo for sure...
and yes he can defend at times.
he has pace,stamina,skills,mongrel,WOMEN, scores goals from anywhere.

COMPLETE

plague
11-11-2014, 12:54 PM
http://statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cesc.jpg

good choice.
Actually i wish i could have 2010 Iniesta, or 2016 Eden Hazard.

cobra23
11-11-2014, 12:55 PM
http://statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cesc.jpg

you are kidding yourself

pv4
11-11-2014, 12:57 PM
you are kidding yourself

For me, the most complete modern footballer outside of the likes of the sweeper-keeper Neuer.

cobra23
11-11-2014, 12:58 PM
:QUOTE=plague;97639]good choice.
Actually i wish i could have 2010 Iniesta, or 2016 Eden Hazard.[/QUOTE]


:offtopic: iIbelieve the thread was messi v ronaldo

plague
11-11-2014, 01:01 PM
:offtopic: iIbelieve the thread was messi v ronaldo

some people believe in Santa Claus too.

cobra23
11-11-2014, 01:11 PM
some people believe in Santa Claus too.

so whats your point? :confused:

plague
11-11-2014, 01:16 PM
so whats your point? :confused:

oh dont worry, i don't generally ever have a point.
Just snark.




.....oh and humour.



but mostly snark.

plague
11-11-2014, 01:17 PM
mostly though just killing time before the good Member gets on here and blames the whole Ronaldo/Messi debate on Middleby.

pv4
11-11-2014, 01:23 PM
http://statsbomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/cesc.jpg

Thinking about this a little more, and putting it into perspective - there have been two (maybe three or four) players in the last few years that an EPL team has bought and instantly, everyone has gone "yep, that'll win them the league" and yep, he won them the league or will do so.

- Cesc to Chelsea
- RVP to Manure

And in not as direct a sense as the above two:
- Aguero
- Suarez

plague
11-11-2014, 01:26 PM
Thinking about this a little more, and putting it into perspective - there have been two (maybe three or four) players in the last few years that an EPL team has bought and instantly, everyone has gone "yep, that'll win them the league" and yep, he won them the league or will do so.

- Cesc to Chelsea
- RVP to Manure

And in not as direct a sense as the above two:
- Aguero
- Suarez

Yaya Toure to city was a massive deal at the time.

BodyNovo
11-11-2014, 02:09 PM
ronaldo is the best ay

Imyourhero
11-11-2014, 02:24 PM
Ronaldo has ridiculous athletic ability, a huge amount more then Messi and there is still debate on who is the best. Take away both their athletic ability (speed, agility, strength) and Messi dominates Ronaldo in the actual skills required to play. Weird way to think about it but it helps mixed up the debate considering how hard it is to compare top players.

Imyourhero
11-11-2014, 02:25 PM
Also its so hard to compare when we haven't seen Messi play anywhere else at club level.

joel31
11-11-2014, 02:45 PM
Ronaldo is the most complete footballer in the world and has been for years.

Of course Messi is also a phenomenon but as premy said he's not looked anywhere near the player we expect for the last 18 months or so. A lot of the praise he gets is purely based on reputation and the fact that he's not Ronaldo.
have you seen Manuel Neuer play?

parksey
11-11-2014, 03:20 PM
While a i agree 100% that Ronaldo is the best attacking footballer on the planet right now to call either him or Messi "complete" is something i disagree with. They are both phenomenal attackers but in terms of defending and general play id say there are more 'complete' footballers.

Actually to expand on the original question if you were starting a team and could have one player from anywhere in the world (other than Griff) who would you pick to give you the best chance of winning games?

Id still say Iniesta.

gogogogogogo

yeah i knew someone would say this but i decided not to address it in my post because i thought it was a stupid point.

ronaldo might not be able to tackle as well as john terry but he sure as shit can do pretty much everything else better.

right foot, left foot, headers, pace, power, agility, technique, eye for a pass, can track back when he needs to.

don't really get how you can say iniesta is more "complete" either.

parksey
11-11-2014, 03:21 PM
ps: neuer is great

Premy
11-11-2014, 03:27 PM
Yeah I would argue given time if Ronnie played in the middle of the park he would do the same if not better than Iniesta. It's just he is better utilized out on the left so that's where his put

plague
11-11-2014, 04:14 PM
yeah i knew someone would say this but i decided not to address it in my post because i thought it was a stupid point.

ronaldo might not be able to tackle as well as john terry but he sure as shit can do pretty much everything else better.

right foot, left foot, headers, pace, power, agility, technique, eye for a pass, can track back when he needs to.

don't really get how you can say iniesta is more "complete" either.

Heres why.
if i was picking a 'winger'/'attacker' right now id pick Ronaldo.
If picked a centre mid right now id pick Iniesta.

I personally feel centre mids generally have more of an input over the whole 90 mins than attackers.
For one moment of brilliance, for a freakish piece of skill, its Ronaldo all the way.
For a player to control the game and have a bigger say on the result I'd lean towards Iniesta.
This does not make it a stupid point.
Cheers,
Plague.

plague
11-11-2014, 04:17 PM
Yeah I would argue given time if Ronnie played in the middle of the park he would do the same if not better than Iniesta. It's just he is better utilized out on the left so that's where his put

Hes not even the best centre mid in his own club team.
oh and he is not "put" anywhere. Players like Ronaldo, Messi etc tell their coaches exactly where they want to play, not the other way around.
If you dont believe me ask Eto'o, Zlatan etc etc etc.

parksey
11-11-2014, 04:18 PM
Heres why.
if i was picking a 'winger'/'attacker' right now id pick Ronaldo.
If picked a centre mid right now id pick Iniesta.

I personally feel centre mids generally have more of an input over the whole 90 mins than attackers.
For one moment of brilliance, for a freakish piece of skill, its Ronaldo all the way.
For a player to control the game and have a bigger say on the result I'd lean towards Iniesta.
This does not make it a stupid point.
Cheers,
Plague.

i don't think preferring a midfielder to an attacker in building a team was stupid, i meant the fact that you brought up defensive capabilities. i should have clarified.

but yeah, inesta is obviously tremendous but ronaldo is on a different planet.

plague
11-11-2014, 04:24 PM
i don't think preferring a midfielder to an attacker in building a team was stupid, i meant the fact that you brought up defensive capabilities. i should have clarified.

but yeah, inesta is obviously tremendous but ronaldo is on a different planet.

Noted: and apologies.
You could also say that Barcas 'pressing' defence puts your Messi's/Iniestas/Xavis under more pressure to defend rather than Madrid/Man U's more 'traditional' approach.

We will respectfully disagree on this issue, but join together and laugh once Member comes on here and starts spouting some rubbish.

joel31
11-11-2014, 04:30 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
Messi > Ronaldo

plague
11-11-2014, 04:38 PM
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/lionel-messi-is-impossible/
Messi > Ronaldo

ruh-roh, here come the stats.

i hate stats in football.

joel31
11-11-2014, 04:44 PM
ruh-roh, here come the stats.

i hate stats in football.
because stats don't have bias?

plague
11-11-2014, 04:58 PM
because stats don't have bias?

No, but the person collating them can.

cc: global warming activists and deniers.

Premy
11-11-2014, 05:07 PM
Stats can easily be manipulated to drive an agenda.

You know 74.63% of stats are made up on the spot, basically all stats except Jeterpools are fiction and irrelevant.

Jeterpool
11-11-2014, 05:44 PM
No, but the person collating them can.

cc: global warming activists and deniers.

You're wrong. Simply wrong you coal burning tree hater :lulz:

Jeterpool
11-11-2014, 05:47 PM
Stats can easily be manipulated to drive an agenda.

You know 74.63% of stats are made up on the spot, basically all stats except Jeterpools are fiction and irrelevant.

I try hard to write my previews as impartially as I can but sometimes it's too hard to make us sound anything but crap, like when we travel to perth. Ha ha

MFKS
11-11-2014, 06:47 PM
We will respectfully disagree on this issue, but join together and laugh once Member comes on here and starts spouting some rubbish.

Actually was gonna come on here and say I reckon Iniesta is a better player than both CR7 and Lionel Missi and that you are right and every other **** is wrong.

Should I now stay away from the thread or would you rather I spouted some rubbish to back up your stance??:wink:

plague
11-11-2014, 07:24 PM
Actually was gonna come on here and say I reckon Iniesta is a better player than both CR7 and Lionel Missi and that you are right and every other **** is wrong.

Should I now stay away from the thread or would you rather I spouted some rubbish to back up your stance??:wink:

Please don't agree with me, it will devalue my argument.

GazFish35
11-11-2014, 08:14 PM
Bergkamp is still better than both.



And he's 45

Imyourhero
11-11-2014, 08:18 PM
Anyone read Bergkamps biography?

MFKS
11-11-2014, 09:44 PM
Please don't agree with me, it will devalue my argument.

**** It I am gonna devalue your argument as you are right and these other cunce are wrong. You deal with the consequences:sparring:


I am a Iniesta fanboi.

The bloke is ****ing king when it comes to doing the little things right and is the perfect example of how to teach kids how to play the game. You can't teach someone to do what CR7 and Missi do but you can coach what Iniesta does and this bloke is the ultimate Jedi Knight of his Obi Wan teacher

He may not have the highlight reels and score the goals CR7 Missi do but the is a ****ing god and should be given much greater respect and adulation than he gets.

Bloke should leave Barca and carry some other club to glory to get the respect he deserves

hawk
11-11-2014, 09:49 PM
Ronaldo is the most complete footballer in the world and has been for years.

Of course Messi is also a phenomenon but as premy said he's not looked anywhere near the player we expect for the last 18 months or so. A lot of the praise he gets is purely based on reputation and the fact that he's not Ronaldo.

No.

Messi is the complete footballer, ronny is a sporadic exposive talent that floats in and out of the game but is as effective.

That being said Ronny is a lightning quick and a natural ball hitter, messi likes touch his way to goal and tap-in, which I put way more value on.

Messi is a touch off his best. Ronny has been telling everyone how good he is for so long that some will believe him.

pv4
11-11-2014, 09:57 PM
Anyone read Bergkamps biography?

Yes. It is unreal.

Bon
21-01-2015, 02:51 PM
Well it would appear that Cristiano has split from Irina Shayk.. (If you don't know about how insanely smoking she is, google her)
Outstanding, nothing will motivate her more to get her gear off and modelling again than to stick it to him..

Bon
02-06-2015, 01:07 PM
Don't know if anyone else has posted this already, but yeah.. He's not bad ay..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAwEuOgI7yU

plague
02-06-2015, 01:24 PM
Bit unfair Ronnie is on holidays.
https://twitter.com/waatpies/status/604940295650873344

plague
14-06-2015, 07:29 PM
this is just a freaking awesome view of the Messi goal from a few weeks back.
crowd reaction is very very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q5MnFAhQXU

Bon
15-06-2015, 10:31 AM
this is just a freaking awesome view of the Messi goal from a few weeks back.
crowd reaction is very very cool.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q5MnFAhQXU

Sh1t yeah, that is awesome!

plague
15-06-2015, 11:13 AM
Sh1t yeah, that is awesome!

Aside from the view and the goal itself the best bit is the crowd going mental.
They've seen this bloke score hundreds of goals but still they go bananas and scream his name.

They just ****ing adore him.

plague
24-11-2015, 02:44 PM
Anyone see Barca v Madrid the other day?

Yeah Iniesta is still better than both of them.

parksey
24-11-2015, 06:19 PM
neymar is the best player in the world right now and suarez isn't far behind

i expect messi will be back to his best soon

ronaldo is washed up at the moment

plague
24-11-2015, 06:23 PM
neymar is the best player in the world right now and suarez isn't far behind


impossible to argue right now.

Bon
12-01-2016, 09:12 AM
5th Ballon d'Or for Messi overnight..

plague
12-01-2016, 08:36 PM
5th Ballon d'Or for Messi overnight..

only one more to catch Griff.
Shame it will be his last though.

MFKS
13-01-2016, 11:53 AM
impossible to argue right now.
What a difference 79 days makes

Neymar best in the world and it is impossible to argue

Then all of a sudden Messi gets the trophy and no words can describe Neymars fall from grace as you drop your boy

5 5 5 :rof:

plague
13-01-2016, 01:02 PM
i dunno maybe because there's a difference between the time the award is judged by versus the term 'right now' but I'm not stupid enough to confuse the two so you might need confirmation elsewhere.

hawk
13-01-2016, 08:54 PM
gheymar best? so much lols

parksey
14-01-2016, 12:24 PM
if you think anyone apart from messi or ronaldo will win the award before those two retire/die you've got another thing coming

it's purely a popularity contest between the two

no qualms with messi winning it, though, it's judged over the calender year

but neymar was the most in form player in the world for most of this season

MFKS
14-01-2016, 12:36 PM
if you think anyone apart from messi or ronaldo will win the award before those two retire/die you've got another thing coming

it's purely a popularity contest between the two

no qualms with messi winning it, though, it's judged over the calender year

but neymar was the most in form player in the world for most of this season

I think you will find CR7's days at the top are coming to an end. What is he 31 now??

Messi still has a few more years dominating


Neymar and the next generation will be on the throne soon enough

plague
14-01-2016, 01:44 PM
at least the voters showed some sense and put Iniesta in the world 11.
still the most complete footballer of his generation.

oh and Dani Alves in the team as well. mad **** getting his just rewards.

Bon
14-01-2016, 01:48 PM
at least the voters showed some sense and put Iniesta in the world 11.
still the most complete footballer of his generation.

oh and Dani Alves in the team as well. mad **** getting his just rewards.

I have been waiting ages for you to notice Iniesta was in there.. :thumbsup:
I'm surprised Suarez isn't in that 11..

plague
14-01-2016, 02:07 PM
I have been waiting ages for you to notice Iniesta was in there.. :thumbsup:
I'm surprised Suarez isn't in that 11..

oh i knew, my feelings on him are well documented, just not shared by many others (the good Member is with me though).

sometimes i feel like the cool kids gang up on me when i bring his name up.

plague
14-01-2016, 02:13 PM
as for Suarez, i don't think he was 'better' in the timeframe of the award that the 3 they picked. I don't watch enough of their games to argue Pogba, Ramos etc.

as for the end of the Messi/Ronaldo dominance, i dunno. we've seen in the NBA especially where LeBron James is the most dominant player the game has seen for decades, yet he still doesn't get MVP every year. plenty of people argue that the voters get 'bored' and just want to pick someone else for the sake of it (as long as they come close). maybe the soccer journos will go the same way.

MFKS
14-01-2016, 07:19 PM
as for Suarez, i don't think he was 'better' in the timeframe of the award that the 3 they picked. I don't watch enough of their games to argue Pogba, Ramos etc.

as for the end of the Messi/Ronaldo dominance, i dunno. we've seen in the NBA especially where LeBron James is the most dominant player the game has seen for decades, yet he still doesn't get MVP every year. plenty of people argue that the voters get 'bored' and just want to pick someone else for the sake of it (as long as they come close). maybe the soccer journos will go the same way.

Their ****ing journos.
Too busy fapping over CR7 and Messi to notice that Neymar or Suarez have had great years themselves.

Given time I can see Neymar being the number one soon enough. He is still getting better.

You could say Messi and CR7 have peaked already in their careers.


As for Iniesta

Bloke is the bloke kids should be taught to play like. Master what he does and you will be a great footballer. Not everyone is gifted like CR7 Messi Neymar etc. Iniesta though has mastered the things that any kid learning the game is capable of doing

lquiquer
14-01-2016, 07:29 PM
Their ****ing journos.
Too busy fapping over CR7 and Messi to notice that Neymar or Suarez have had great years themselves.

Given time I can see Neymar being the number one soon enough. He is still getting better.

You could say Messi and CR7 have peaked already in their careers.


As for Iniesta

Bloke is the bloke kids should be taught to play like. Master what he does and you will be a great footballer. Not everyone is gifted like CR7 Messi Neymar etc. Iniesta though has mastered the things that any kid learning the game is capable of doing

What about that polish striker for Munchen.....not bad is he?

plague
14-01-2016, 08:34 PM
Not everyone is gifted like CR7 Messi Neymar etc. Iniesta though has mastered the things that any kid learning the game is capable of doing

errrrrr, Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar aren't 'gifted'.
they are just really really good.
Unless theres a midi-chlorian count that hasn't been made public?

plague
14-01-2016, 08:35 PM
What about that polish striker for Munchen.....not bad is he?


bloke is good.
i don't think you'll find many saying he's better than those other three chaps though.

lquiquer
14-01-2016, 08:41 PM
bloke is good.
i don't think you'll find many saying he's better than those other three chaps though.

The Socceroos captain put him second...???....but just remembered he is a gypo FFS

plague
14-01-2016, 08:44 PM
The Socceroos captain put him second...???....but just remembered he is a gypo FFS

Yeah I heard he put Hutcho first.
Discrace to the 'Roos shirt IMO.

parksey
14-01-2016, 10:29 PM
I think you will find CR7's days at the top are coming to an end. What is he 31 now??

Messi still has a few more years dominating


Neymar and the next generation will be on the throne soon enough

he's 31 next month, yeah. he's been on a slow decline for a few seasons.

still pretty much the most arrogant asshole ever