BK and Free Kicks

[steve136]

Deserves its own thread. How bad is this bloke? Just stands on one side of the goal and either a) lets the ball go past him on that side anyway ala v mebourne victory or b) makes some half-hearted leap across goal when it's far too late ala v del piero, wellington pheonix etc. etc. etc.

[joel31]

but he's a Newy boy that tries hard

[mervan]

Deserves its own thread. How bad is this bloke? Just stands on one side of the goal and either a) lets the ball go past him on that side anyway ala v mebourne victory or b) makes some half-hearted leap across goal when it's far too late ala v del piero, wellington pheonix etc. etc. etc.

You cannot be serious

[plague]

Deserves its own thread. How bad is this bloke? Just stands on one side of the goal and either a) lets the ball go past him on that side anyway ala v mebourne victory or b) makes some half-hearted leap across goal when it's far too late ala v del piero, wellington pheonix etc. etc. etc.

Hahahaha this ****ing guy.
5 star thread.

[Raw Boned Youngster]

I think even BK's biggest fans would agree that he is completely useless when it comes to negotiating free kicks. it is an area of his game that is really below par.

[The Dunster]

I don't think too many keepers would have saved that one. It was a very well hit free-kick which moved a long way as well.

[steve136]

I don't think too many keepers would have saved that one. It was a very well hit free-kick which moved a long way as well.
Agreed. But there's a difference between not saving a ball and not getting within a mile of it. It's game over before the kick is even taken because of his positioning.

[plague]

BK should stop giving away all those free kicks in good range then I reackon.

[steve136]

BK should stop giving away all those free kicks in good range then I reackon.

Nah if he was committing fouls at least he'd be doing something.

[The Dunster]

Agreed. But there's a difference between not saving a ball and not getting within a mile of it. It's game over before the kick is even taken because of his positioning.

So what you are saying is that BK has managed to make it through the local ranks into the professional ranks without any idea of where to position himself.

And yet other local Keepers with far more talent and positioning skills than BK were never given the opportunities he's been given ?

You sound like a 13 year old girl. Grow the **** up.

[plague]

Novel concept i know but instead of just throwing some shit up against the wall lets get all pv4 for a second.
A good way to settle this debate would be to introduce some research and stats on how many (and % rate) free kicks are scored direct on BK vs other keepers in the league.
To delve deeper then and see how many of those went over the wall/around the wall/through the wall to determine whether BK is setting his walls poorly or whether his defenders are scared.
I feel this would give a good insight into the debate, and may help either side.














nah just jokes MORE CAPITAL LETTERS AND YELLING AT THE COMPUTER

[steve136]

So what you are saying is that BK has managed to make it through the local ranks into the professional ranks without any idea of where to position himself.

And yet other local Keepers with far more talent and positioning skills than BK were never given the opportunities he's been given ?

You sound like a 13 year old girl. Grow the **** up.
You're right. By becoming a starter for the Newcastle Jets, he has truly perfected his art. It would be unthinkable, perhaps incomprehensible, for the Jets to have players that were inept on the field. Last time I checked, we didn't have to play sh*t locals just because they're from here.

You sound like you're making an ad hominem argument.

[sammydog]

Is this thread serious?

How about just acknowledging it was an extremely well taken free kick. The wall was placed well, BK positioned accordingly and the shot cleared the wall and dropped into the corner.

If BK had been more central to be closer to covering the near post that the wall was protecting, the far post would have been wide open.

No keeping error, just a great shot.

[plague]

Is this thread serious?

How about just acknowledging it was an extremely well taken free kick. The wall was placed well, BK positioned accordingly and the shot cleared the wall and dropped into the corner.

If BK had been more central to be closer to covering the near post that the wall was protecting, the far post would have been wide open.

No keeping error, just a great shot.

Stop being all sensible and rational.
WE ARE YELLING AT THINGS OVER HERE!!!!!!!

[LiverJet]

T-Rex strikes again. If only Kennedy knew how to stretch his arms out he might be able to saving something other then shots hit straight at him

[hawk]

I think even BK's biggest fans would agree that he is completely useless when it comes to negotiating free kicks. it is an area of his game that is really below par.

backup flogs.

That wasn't even a free kick but the ref needed some home points. attack the right crook. Plus BK hates Stubbins=no hand

[MFKS]

Thread delivers.

How come every time some bloke scores a free kick against BK they are all world clarsh free kicks??

Can someone answer that??

He either gives the taker a side to kick where if they can get it over the wall and on target he can't stop it or when it is on his side he can't stop it.

What exactly dies he offer

You ****ers offer up more excuses than Phil Stubbins

How about next time we concede a free kick we make a sub Tim Krul WC style cause the reserve can't do any worse

[sammydog]

How come every time some bloke scores a free kick against BK they are all world clarsh free kicks??



So that was an ordinary free kick tonight?

[BP Super Dynamos]

BK had the back stick covered and very little else. Yes, the free-kick was good, but had he positioned himself he should've at least got within cooee of it. I was always taught to position yourself in the middle of the goals (looking from where the kick is to be taken) and build a wall from there to cover the near stick. Makes sense to me

[plague]

BK should be in the wall. Put a fullback on the line. Simple really.

[plague]

I was always taught to position yourself in the middle of the goals (looking from where the kick is to be taken) and build a wall from there to cover the near stick. Makes sense to me

Probably explains why you're not making a living out of goal keeping then.

[plague]

He either gives the taker a side to kick where if they can get it over the wall and on target he can't stop it or when it is on his side he can't stop it.


Answer is simple really:
BK needs to cover the near post, far post and middle.
Not rocket science is it.

Good talk Member. Another problem solved.

[MFKS]

So that was an ordinary free kick tonight?

Never said ordinary

It was not world clarsh. It was a straight forward free kick where he got it above the wall and under the bar and on target. Our keeper though was no where near it. To me there is a repetitive issue here with this bloke that needs resolving by the coaches.

Anyway don't think I am blaming BK for the result I am stoked with not winning. Allows the rage against Stubbins to be Moving Forward and all that shit.

[MFKS]

Also it has been far too long since we had a debate about our goalkeepers :pissup:

Should have one after every game

[BP Super Dynamos]

I might not be making coin out of football, but I'd have gotten closer to Hicks' free-kick than BK

[plague]

I might not be making coin out of football, but I'd have gotten closer to Hicks' free-kick than BK

Nah I reackon you would have both picked it out of the back of the net at the same speed.

[Thomas477]

Tbh, normally I would be right on the anti BK brigade, but it meant that we didn't win, so the pressure remains on Stubbins.

KUTGW BK, but as soon as Stubbins go, please gtfo.

[GazFish35]

1008

He's a long way left.

But FFS, how about we start a thread for every time a jets player in our history hasn't beaten the first man on an attacking corner, or each time a pass goes long, or maybe we should've started threads each time Tarek didn't manage a decent cross.

I'm all for analysing a weakness in a player, but a new thread? C'mon.

[pv4]

Haven't gotten the chance to watch the game or the free kick yet, but BK's positioning for opposition free kicks has always been one major standout weakness of his game that even Gazfish has admitted in the past.

[seldom]

I'd be much more concerned with our negativity in the 2nd half rather than BKs positioning.

[MFKS]

I'd be much more concerned with our negativity in the 2nd half rather than BKs positioning.

Was the second half more negative than the first?? From memory we only had 2 shots in the first half anyway.

[plague]

Hey guys just letting you know that I just watched Ryan Grants goal against the Gypos and Gypo keeper was closer to his near post and got beat by a shot that was further out and didn't have a wall in front of him but somehow the ball still went in and Reddy had no chance and didn't get a glove on it and I've yet to hear anyone blame the keeper but that's cool coz BK sux cheers Plague.

[MFKS]

Hey guys just letting you know that I just watched Ryan Grants goal against the Gypos and Gypo keeper was closer to his near post and got beat by a shot that was further out and didn't have a wall in front of him but somehow the ball still went in and Reddy had no chance and didn't get a glove on it and I've yet to hear anyone blame the keeper but that's cool coz BK sux cheers Plague.
Plague we don't make excuses on here for Gypos.

Poorest effort ever to deflect. Using Gypos to cover BK's **** up��

[plague]

Nah just reinforcing everyone's point that all goalkeepers are shit and everything is their fault.

[GazFish35]

I once saw Oliver Khan get nowhere near a free kick once

[plague]

I once saw Oliver Khan get nowhere near a free kick once

That's because he's rubbish.
Like all keepers.

[la bazzle]

I once saw Oliver Khan get nowhere near a free kick once

Lies

[Jeterpool]

I once saw Oliver Khan get nowhere near a free kick once

Was it his team that were scoring it up the other end? That'd be the only way.

[Jetmaster]

BK had the back stick covered and very little else. Yes, the free-kick was good, but had he positioned himself he should've at least got within cooee of it. I was always taught to position yourself in the middle of the goals (looking from where the kick is to be taken) and build a wall from there to cover the near stick. Makes sense to me

Who the **** was your GK coach (certainly wasn't me) ??

Bozza himself not too long ago said a keeper should position his wall to one side, lining it up with the near post, then cover the far post. If it goes far post you should have it covered. If it goes over the wall you have no right to get close to it and need to concede to the skill of the kick taker. Remember, you can't even see the ball unitil it comes over the wall.

**** it - is there any rule in the laws that says you can't have two keepers on the field?

[GazFish35]

I was always taught to position yourself in the middle of the goals (looking from where the kick is to be taken) and build a wall from there to cover the near stick. Makes sense to me


lol. just read this.

who was your keeper coach?

that would you put you almost behind any wall and therfore unsighted.
unless you only use two men as a wall in central sitautions..... whereby your then inviting a shot at almost all the goal.


align your "post-man" with the post and the ball - or just outside the post if the guy hitiing it has a good repuation.
us 2,3,4, or 5 defenders to cover the goal - how many? depends on location, ability of striker, game situation, numbers of ather attcakers in threatening positions,

set yourself halfway between the outside stick and the end of the wall, so your in the middle of the side of the goal not covered by the wall, NOT the middle of the goal.

[plague]

lol. just read this.

who was your keeper coach?


From the sounds of it MFKS, or some bloke that is inemployed.........or Stevie Wonder.


Oh wait, Stevie Wonder isn't blind.
Ray Charles, it was Ray Charles.

[GazFish35]

1012

so, in BP super Dynamos parallel universe BKXX would have been in the middle of the goal. behind the wall. and unsighted. great starting point. perhaps he should just play blindfolded..... thats how stubbins appears to coach.


or, in real life, the "post-man" is lined up with the post (shoulder outside), and a wall of defenders is used to cover half (and maybe a bit more) of the goal. BK is then positioned to cover the side of the goal that not covered by the wall.



he didnt get within cooee of it due to it going up and over the wall meaning he had little time to see it, so of course he moved "late"

it appears to appease his detratctors he needs to dive full stretch at balls already past him.... or dive on the assumptionthe ball has been kicked over the wall and dive before he actually knows where its going, this could lead to hilarity if the attacking team play the ball short, or simply slide past the wall to an uncovered goal, while bk is in mid air saving the ball that wasn't kicked.


Even the yanks get it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf9SGAcNqs4

[GazFish35]

http://www.seriousgoalkeeping.net/Tactics/FreeKicks/images/Chelsea_Defending_Free_Kick.png

Someone tell Petr Czech he doesn't know what he's doing.

[MFKS]

http://www.seriousgoalkeeping.net/Tactics/FreeKicks/images/Chelsea_Defending_Free_Kick.png

Someone tell Petr Czech he doesn't know what he's doing.

I bet you Peter Cech don't let the free kick in at the near post or far post.

BK on the other hand is odds on to let them in on either side

[Hunter403]

I reckon BK should do something daring...like set the wall to protect the far post. At least he will see it coming....

[My2BobsWorth]

I bet you Peter Cech don't let the free kick in at the near post or far post.

BK on the other hand is odds on to let them in on either side

Your strike rate for being right, is worse than Stubbins at winning games

[steve136]

Cech isn't even set for the free kick yet. Great photo...

[GazFish35]

http://i.imgur.com/ZYN5bkv.jpg


someone ring Real Betis. this guy should be behind the wall.

[GazFish35]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/8dIjXkGhLiU/0.jpg


oliver khan the naughty boy, fancy not standing behind the wall so hes in the middle of the goal.

[GazFish35]

http://www.soccer-training-guide.com/images/soccer-kick-1.jpg


tsk tsk tsk , this dude.

[GazFish35]

and look!


http://i.imgur.com/xBA6BQ0.gif



an EPL keeper getting nowhere near it either.


must a be terribly positioned, mustne be a great a free kick.

he really should hve stood behind the wall to give himself more chance of covering the side the goal that the wall was covering, and ignore the fact he couldnt see the ball.

[Thomas477]

John Ruddy is hardly a top keeper. What about Courtious or de Gea?

But I have to conceed, I agree with Gaz re positing and wall. The most important thing IMO is being able to see the ball, if you can't see the ball, you're ****ed ala Finkler vs BK earlier this season.

[plague]

and look!


http://i.imgur.com/xBA6BQ0.gif



an EPL keeper getting nowhere near it either.


must a be terribly positioned, mustne be a great a free kick.

he really should hve stood behind the wall to give himself more chance of covering the side the goal that the wall was covering, and ignore the fact he couldnt see the ball.

To be fair that goal was BK's fault too.

[plague]

and to also be fair Mr Fish, all those examples you gave were of keepers who have never made it to an A-League 1st team.

(and that's probably why).

[la bazzle]

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/8dIjXkGhLiU/0.jpg


oliver khan the naughty boy, fancy not standing behind the wall so hes in the middle of the goal.


Thats Neuer bro

[la bazzle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlczweXGOx8

can we change this to the Olli Kahn thread

[GazFish35]

Thats Neuer bro

Just keeping you on you're toes.



Both puns intended

[hawk]

Bk needs to put arms out when he dives otherwise its just a salmon.

http://images.scribblelive.com/2014/1/22/a9a9865f-c212-464d-bf16-3275d7138e2b_800.jpg

[MFKS]

and look!


http://i.imgur.com/xBA6BQ0.gif

an EPL keeper getting nowhere near it either.


must a be terribly positioned, mustne be a great a free kick.

he really should hve stood behind the wall to give himself more chance of covering the side the goal that the wall was covering, and ignore the fact he couldnt see the ball.

That wall is shit.
No4 and no16 dogged it
Do you have alternate angle to show height of FK to wall if those two didn't dog it???

[plague]

That wall is shit.
No4 and no16 dogged it
Do you have alternate angle to show height of FK to wall if those two didn't dog it???

wots it mata?
your argument is that BK should have got it regardless. blaming the wall would be somewhat rational.
and we all know you aint about that common sense.

[GazFish35]

Lol. So Finkler's free kick wasn't anything to with the wall and Victree running subterfuge, but yaya's is?

Wow. Man city really better sign finkler up quick.

[MFKS]

wots it mata?
your argument is that BK should have got it regardless. blaming the wall would be somewhat rational.
and we all know you aint about that common sense.

My point isn't BK should have got it. My point is BK is shit at FK's point blank.

It is also rather pertinent to note we had this debate when he let Finklers effort in that was on his side. BK Fanbois used then it ain't BK's fault excuse then.

Using same excuse now when it ain't on his side.

End of day from what we have learned here is BK won't save any free kicks and is not to take any responsibility when they go in.

Straight out of the Stubbins excuse manual that.

On another note can we get a keeper who can actually stop a free kick or is that too much to ****ing ask because BK ain't up to it???

[MFKS]

Lol. So Finkler's free kick wasn't anything to with the wall and Victree running subterfuge, but yaya's is?

Wow. Man city really better sign finkler up quick.

Yayas free kick that wall left the keeper up shit creek by falling apart and failing to do the job they were put there to do.

Finklers free kick the wall had **** all to do with it. Straight through BK's side of the goal.

I would also speculate that if Hicks had of went for the side BK was on he probably scores anyway

[plague]

My point isn't BK should have got it.

On another note can we get a keeper who can actually stop a free kick or is that too much to ****ing ask because BK ain't up to it???

please stop talking now, you cant even go 1 post without contradicting yourself.
have a breath, a drink, then listen to your mate Stubbs and #moveforward.

[GazFish35]

No fanboi's are arguing he's great. No fanboi's are trying to ignore weaknesses.

Some, are trying to suggest that if we are going to nit pick on technical issues to do with goalkeeping it might serve a worthwhile discussion to have some knowledge on goalkeeping.

The suggestion that he should have been in the middle of his goal, is a perfect case in point.

[Thomas477]

please stop talking now, you cant even go 1 post without contradicting yourself.
have a breath, a drink, then listen to your mate Stubbs and #moveforward.

How is that contradicting himself? He's saying a goalkeeper at aleague level, like bk apparantly is, *should* be getting to it, but that he won't because he isn't up to aleague level.

[hawk]

does anyone honestly think that BK is at fault for our problems. lets start with cheatin refs, then work our way through the whole club then you can finally add bk to having made a mistake or 2 like every other player.

[plague]

How is that contradicting himself? He's saying a goalkeeper at aleague level, like bk apparantly is, *should* be getting to it, but that he won't because he isn't up to aleague level.

Um, he plays in the A-League so therefore technically he is A-League level.
But yeah, try reading the Members posts again and have another dig.

[MFKS]

Um, he plays in the A-League so therefore technically he is A-League level.
But yeah, try reading the Members posts again and have another dig.

Just cause he plays in the HAL doesn't make him A League level. There are a pile of blokes at our club that ain't A League level.
Stubbins ain't a A League level manager either

[plague]

Just cause he plays in the HAL doesn't make him A League level. There are a pile of blokes at our club that ain't A League level.
Stubbins ain't a A League level manager either
Y'all need a dictionary.

[parksey]

long story short

no one in the team is anything special and bk is certainly no exception

[steve136]

Is no one going to point out that in almost all the images posted as examples, the keepers are closer to the centre of the goals than BK ever is?
I'm not saying BK could have saved that free kick - my point is that he positions himself so that he has no chance.
Arguing against him being in the middle of the goals is misrepresenting what most of us are saying.

[GazFish35]

Ball in different positions

[GazFish35]

Arguing against him being in the middle of the goals is misrepresenting what most of us are saying.

Which is what? That his game needs to improve and positioning on free kicks is one obvious area?

No-ones tugging against that.


I'm arguing that if we are going to slam the goalkeeper for technical errors our analysis should at least be accurate.
AND that every other team member deserves the same level of scrutiny.


But hey, while ever our pass completion rate is below 65% and we lose 6 from 10 tackles, let's focus on the keeper by suggesting a way to improve a technical flaw in his game is to do something even more wrong.

[pv4]

I'm arguing...

... that every other team member deserves the same level of scrutiny.

You keep saying this as if it doesn't happen.

[The Camel]

You keep saying this as if it doesn't happen.

Exactly, people are all too happy to bag out Galloway and Gallagher etc (deservedly so) yet for some reason BK seems to be a protected species with some. Let's face it, the bloke is the worst keeper in the league and also worse than most of the other squad's reserve keepers.

[Grimario]

Exactly, people are all too happy to bag out Galloway and Gallagher etc (deservedly so) yet for some reason BK seems to be a protected species with some. Let's face it, the bloke is the worst keeper in the league and also worse than most of the other squad's reserve keepers.

Lucien Laverdure at Melb City is worse than BK.

[plague]

I hate all of the players.
All of the coaching staff.
All of the ownership team
And all of the fans.

I'm the only fair and balanced bloke on here.

[plague]

Would take BK over:
Sydney bloke.
Any Gypo keeper (because they are Gypos)
Any ex-Gypo keeper.
Bloke from Melb City.
The bloke who played for Roar before Theo got back.
Any other backups in the league.

The rest I'd have over BK.

[Grimario]

Would take BK over:
Sydney bloke.
Any Gypo keeper (because they are Gypos)
Any ex-Gypo keeper.
Bloke from Melb City.
The bloke who played for Roar before Theo got back.
Any other backups in the league.

The rest I'd have over BK.

Agree with this apart from Janjetovic.

[GazFish35]

You keep saying this as if it doesn't happen.

It doesn't.

Other players get called shit useless or hopeless, they don't have their game analysed to highlight key technical errors, and then have incorrect "improvements" suggested.

[GazFish35]

Exactly, people are all too happy to bag out Galloway and Gallagher etc (deservedly so) yet for some reason BK seems to be a protected species with some. Let's face it, the bloke is the worst keeper in the league and also worse than most of the other squad's reserve keepers.


Not protected.

Analyse his game, pull apart all his weaknesses, tear strips of him, but do it with some semblance of understanding of goalkeeping.

[The Camel]

Would take BK over:
Sydney bloke.
Any Gypo keeper (because they are Gypos)
Any ex-Gypo keeper.
Bloke from Melb City.
The bloke who played for Roar before Theo got back.
Any other backups in the league.

The rest I'd have over BK.

Agree with Jamie Young from Brisbane (only marginally). I would take Janjetovic, Reddy, Velaphi, Necevski, Redmayne, Lawrence Thomas all over BK and also Paul Izzo and Jack Duncan from what I have seen of them in Australian Youth matches as well.

[The Camel]

I have not highlighted any technical errors but am happy to go on record to say IMO BK is all three of shit, useless and hopeless.

[plague]

Agree with Jamie Young from Brisbane (only marginally). I would take Janjetovic, Reddy, Velaphi, Necevski, Redmayne, Lawrence Thomas all over BK and also Paul Izzo and Jack Duncan from what I have seen of them in Australian Youth matches as well.

I got to the part where you picked a Gypo over BK then realised that you obvs have no clue.

enjoy your marching band this weekend.

[pv4]

It doesn't.

Other players get called shit useless or hopeless, they don't have their game analysed to highlight key technical errors, and then have incorrect "improvements" suggested.

What are you talking about? Of course key technical errors and issues are discussed about basically every player.

Caravella with his roundabouts, Taylor Regan with his composure on the ball and general style, David Carney seen as lazy in defence, Sam Gallagher seemingly insistent on moving the ball backwards all the time, and heaps of others that you can probably think of yourself. Specific issues of players games are highlighted on a near daily occasion.

But you keep disregarding these discussions happening, and deflect legitimate concerns about BK's game that seem to be of a recurring nature.

[pv4]

As a legitimate question to people who have been trained as keepers..

Why doesn't BK set his wall on the other side of the goal? Clearly his wall is redundant, as seen by how "easily" it was bypassed. I've read a few times saying his line of vision on the ball was blocked by the wall. If he sets the wall to block the other side of the goal in the example of the weekend, he has vision of the ball before, when it is kicked, and after it is kicked. It's far enough out that he has the near post covered himself, so that's not a big issue. If the right footer takes the free kick and tries to swing the ball around (near post side) the wall, to swing to the far post, BK will have seen the ball the entire time. And if the left footer attempts to chip the wall for the far post, the flight time is longer and BK for the most part can see the ball as his line of vision is better. Plus he'll get the extra time to get across to it, as opposed to the near post hit.

To me it makes sense. I can't remember ever over-hearing a keeper say why this "inverted wall" (that's what I'll call it) is a bad idea.

[plague]

As a legitimate question to people who have been trained as keepers..

Why doesn't BK set his wall on the other side of the goal? Clearly his wall is redundant, as seen by how "easily" it was bypassed. I've read a few times saying his line of vision on the ball was blocked by the wall. If he sets the wall to block the other side of the goal in the example of the weekend, he has vision of the ball before, when it is kicked, and after it is kicked. It's far enough out that he has the near post covered himself, so that's not a big issue. If the right footer takes the free kick and tries to swing the ball around (near post side) the wall, to swing to the far post, BK will have seen the ball the entire time. And if the left footer attempts to chip the wall for the far post, the flight time is longer and BK for the most part can see the ball as his line of vision is better. Plus he'll get the extra time to get across to it, as opposed to the near post hit.

To me it makes sense. I can't remember ever over-hearing a keeper say why this "inverted wall" (that's what I'll call it) is a bad idea.

Because hitting the far wall is an easier shot than going 'up and over' if the wall is at near post.
Hitting to the open far post lets you get way more power and would then give BK less time to react.

This is kind of what happened for the Finkler goal (from memory).
BK was more at fault for that one because he seemed to be set up all wrong.

From my coaching book the one v Nix he did everything right he just got beat by a great free kick.

[Hunter403]

As a legitimate question to people who have been trained as keepers..

Why doesn't BK set his wall on the other side of the goal? Clearly his wall is redundant, as seen by how "easily" it was bypassed. I've read a few times saying his line of vision on the ball was blocked by the wall. If he sets the wall to block the other side of the goal in the example of the weekend, he has vision of the ball before, when it is kicked, and after it is kicked. It's far enough out that he has the near post covered himself, so that's not a big issue. If the right footer takes the free kick and tries to swing the ball around (near post side) the wall, to swing to the far post, BK will have seen the ball the entire time. And if the left footer attempts to chip the wall for the far post, the flight time is longer and BK for the most part can see the ball as his line of vision is better. Plus he'll get the extra time to get across to it, as opposed to the near post hit.

To me it makes sense. I can't remember ever over-hearing a keeper say why this "inverted wall" (that's what I'll call it) is a bad idea.

Exactly what I said yesterday. If he has trouble reacting quickly enough when his view is blocked by the wall, reverse it. It buys time, says to the shooter "go ahead big boy, take your best shot" Shooter either tries to curl up and over the wall to the far post, or blasts it straight at BK who will do his best to make a clean catch.

Radical, daring and unheard of. Hence we should try it! Couldn't get worse. .....

[plague]

Also, as far as the thought that if he can see the ball being kicked he can react immediately, it's not exactly right.

Any half decent footballer can make contact with the ball but send it in a variety of directions/speeds.
The keeper essentially has to wait to see the trajectory before deciding what to do.
Any extra time looking at it is probably negated by the extra power that can be put on a shot with no wall to go up and over.

[plague]

I hope it made sense pv4 because your question is valid and one which I personally have been part of before. But from every way of looking at it/dealing with them the way the Jets were set up on Sunday was correct in giving the taker the lowest % chance.

Bloke just hit a peach of a shot.

[GazFish35]

What are you talking about? Of course key technical errors and issues are discussed about basically every player.

Caravella with his roundabouts, Taylor Regan with his composure on the ball and general style, David Carney seen as lazy in defence, Sam Gallagher seemingly insistent on moving the ball backwards all the time, and heaps of others that you can probably think of yourself. Specific issues of players games are highlighted on a near daily occasion.

But you keep disregarding these discussions happening, and deflect legitimate concerns about BK's game that seem to be of a recurring nature.


I see "caravella roundabouts",
not caravella fails to assess the situation before receiving a pass, he ball watches in the lead up to receiving a pass and has limited awareness of his options..... Solution , he should close his eyes and spin three times.

Taylor Reagan's "general style" wow, great technical analysis.

I'm not bothering to continue, as I'm pretty sure each of these things don't have a dedicated thread, but bk and free kicks deserves one?


Not deflecting, I've said all along, people can pull his games to bits, but they should do it with some goalkeeping knowledge.

"He should stand behind the wall" and he shouldn't "do that little jump" before diving are two pieces of goalkeeper coaching droplets of gold.

[pv4]

Taylor Reagan's "general style" wow, great technical analysis.

:rof: that you took my summary (SUMMARY) of examples and consider that the technical analysis. If you want my "technical analysis" on each of those players, plus my explanation of Regan's general style that I see as being detrimental to his game, I'm happy to provide them for you in detail (and to some extent have done so for most players we've had over the years already) but this isn't the appropriate thread to do so in, I was merely giving a few quick examples to further my point arguing against your thoughts.

I'm not convinced BK's weaknesses with free kicks is deserving of a thread, nor am I sold that it shouldn't have one. I haven't made my mind on that one yet tbh, but I definitely promote discussing the issue. For what it's worth, doesn't Caravella get called "Roundabout" by many people now, and I'm kinda sure a thread was made specifically about it? Just saying..

You were deflecting, that's why I posted originally. You said that the other members of the team do not come under the scrutiny of having their game analysed to highlight key technical errors. That's deflecting. It's like you're saying "hey guys stop talking about one persons issues, talk about others".

What I will say is the goalkeeping knowledge thing, and the "silly" solutions some have provided, I don't disagree with. But basically every player gets given these kind of armchair critic solutions all the time anyway. I laughed the first time I heard someone say they thought James Virgili should be moulded into a right back (and still do laugh tbh). I laughed at people who thought our issues with retaining possession would be solved by starting Michael Bridges (and still do).

Every player comes under intense scrutiny, every issue gets offered good and bad solutions. I will argue this every time I see you argue otherwise when talking about BK and his issues.

[GazFish35]

An inverted wall. Nice name.

It invites a powerfully driven shot at the now unwalled near post. As plague said, powerful drives give you less time to track the trajectory of the ball - ever been watching a game on telly and the ball (usually a defensive clearance) sort of looks like it's going towards the goaline, but it's not, as it's actually heading straight for the camera, and goes out for a throw, depth perception when the ball is travelling at speed is difficult.

The shot for the far top corner (now covered by the inverted wall) becomes easier as the wall is further from the ball, and the post is further from the wall, giving the attacker more room, to get the ball up, and back down again. It may also disappear from sight depending on the angle of the deadball position, negating any advantage of being able to see the ball from the outset.

It's opens up the space directly in front of the ball and outside the near post for the attackers to control and penetrate, meaning you'd have to commit defenders to that space anyway. I'd rather have a wall of my team doing their job than a smattering of legs all looking for a deflection, or gaping open space at the near stick, or just outside it for the opposition to take advantage of.

An inverted wall is easier to get the ball in behind and have a ball being cut back to onrushing attackers.

It's also gives the kick taker a greater margin for error with a powerful strike, they can powerfully strike at the near post, or inside the wall and curl away from the keeper towards the far.

Again depending on the location of the free kick, it may also retreat the offside line.

The (traditional) wall's job is to make the easier (closer) shot at goal more difficult by forcing the ball to navigate the wall , and the far post shot more tempting. The far post shot, travelling further in theory should then be easier to save, it's slower having travelled further and you've had more time to see it.

It might seem easier to deal with a thunderbolt coming straight at you, but it's not favourable as setting up the defensive situation to encourage that strike, opens other options for the attacking team that become far more difficult to resolve.



At the end of the day, if the wall is set right, and the bloke can get it up and over, or around, then he deserves the credit for a great goal.

[GazFish35]

:rof: that you took my summary (SUMMARY) of examples and consider that the technical analysis. If you want my "technical analysis" on each of those players, plus my explanation of Regan's general style that I see as being detrimental to his game, I'm happy to provide them for you in detail (and to some extent have done so for most players we've had over the years already) but this isn't the appropriate thread to do so in, I was merely giving a few quick examples to further my point arguing against your thoughts.

I'm not convinced BK's weaknesses with free kicks is deserving of a thread, nor am I sold that it shouldn't have one. I haven't made my mind on that one yet tbh, but I definitely promote discussing the issue. For what it's worth, doesn't Caravella get called "Roundabout" by many people now, and I'm kinda sure a thread was made specifically about it? Just saying..

You were deflecting, that's why I posted originally. You said that the other members of the team do not come under the scrutiny of having their game analysed to highlight key technical errors. That's deflecting. It's like you're saying "hey guys stop talking about one persons issues, talk about others".

What I will say is the goalkeeping knowledge thing, and the "silly" solutions some have provided, I don't disagree with. But basically every player gets given these kind of armchair critic solutions all the time anyway. I laughed the first time I heard someone say they thought James Virgili should be moulded into a right back (and still do laugh tbh). I laughed at people who thought our issues with retaining possession would be solved by starting Michael Bridges (and still do).

Every player comes under intense scrutiny, every issue gets offered good and bad solutions. I will argue this every time I see you argue otherwise when talking about BK and his issues.

Points taken.
Maybe I need a glove icon to represent the goalkeepers union.

Though I stop arguing BK gets a disproportionate amount of unwarranted criticism next time an outfield player makes a textbook tackle and a thread is started about how poorly said player tackles. Or, to make it fair, next time someone makes a pass, so over ten metres, and they do it consistently (say over 85%) and a thread I started about the one pass they may have misplaced.

[De-Champ]

Isn't an inverted wall when the players are standing on their heads?

Seriously what a laugh reading some posts on here. A properly hit ball, you won't see until it hits the back of the net, wall or no wall.

[pv4]

Though I stop arguing BK gets a disproportionate amount of unwarranted criticism next time an outfield player makes a textbook tackle and a thread is started about how poorly said player tackles. Or, to make it fair, next time someone makes a pass, so over ten metres, and they do it consistently (say over 85%) and a thread I started about the one pass they may have misplaced.

I guess that would depend on whether the player seems to have learnt from their mistakes or not.

[GazFish35]

I guess that would depend on whether the player seems to have learnt from their mistakes or not.

And in this instance, given that BK's positioning for the free kick in question was correct, what hasn't he learnt?

[Jeterpool]

Points taken.
Maybe I need a glove icon to represent the goalkeepers union.

Though I stop arguing BK gets a disproportionate amount of unwarranted criticism next time an outfield player makes a textbook tackle and a thread is started about how poorly said player tackles. Or, to make it fair, next time someone makes a pass, so over ten metres, and they do it consistently (say over 85%) and a thread I started about the one pass they may have misplaced.

I guess that's the thing Gaz. The goal keepers get the blame, rightly or wrongly, because any actual or perceived mistake is more likely to lead to a goal. We don't often analyse what instigated the opportunity, the 10 shots the striker put wide or the 12 passes from the midfielder that were intercepted. We just remember the glorious through ball and finish past the on-rushing keeper.

It comes with the territory.

[GazFish35]

I guess that's the thing Gaz. The goal keepers get the blame, rightly or wrongly, because any actual or perceived mistake is more likely to lead to a goal. We don't often analyse what instigated the opportunity, the 10 shots the striker put wide or the 12 passes from the midfielder that were intercepted. We just remember the glorious through ball and finish past the on-rushing keeper.

It comes with the territory.

Then as a proud member of the goalkeepers union, I'll defend them to the hilt.

[pv4]

And in this instance, given that BK's positioning for the free kick in question was correct, what hasn't he learnt?

I'm personally not sold his positioning was correct.

[Grimario]

I'm personally not sold his positioning was correct.

Gaz said the same way back in this thread...


1008

He's a long way left.

[GazFish35]

Gaz said the same way back in this thread...

I said he was a long way left, not that his positioning was wrong. ;)

For the finkler free kick he got rammed for being too far behind the wall and showing too much far post.




Why don't we all admit that it's his diving action where he pulls his arms out of the stretch for the ball and seemingly gives up in mid air that annoys us all the most?

[true waterboy]

Every time a free kick is taken against us with BK in goals I have no confidence.

I dont understand these huge walls that keepers impliment. Surely a three person wall gives them sufficient area to block a powerful drive to the near post while allowing the keeper to stand close enough to that post to get over in time if the free kick taker does a chip shot over the wall. by standing so far away from the near post you basically are saying i dont think you are good enough to get it over the wall then dip under the bar. problem is that at a professional level a decent striker of the ball should be able to do this.

less people in wall and stand more centrally, simples

[borat]

I usually stay out of BK threads, because they always turn into a shitfight. Don't think there is a more polarising player in the team.

The first incarnation of BK I was not a fan at all. Lead boots, nervy, was clearly out of his depth imo compared to the leagues keepers. The 2nd incarnation of BK is a lot more confident in his play and genuinely seems cut out for this league.

But there is no point denying that he has the yips on free kicks and always has. The 94 minute of game you would generally consider that free kick would go into the mixer with everyone up. But the Nix give the ball to a kid who has played 5 mins of game time. Good freekick and well taken, but imo BK is clearly not confident and inviting teams to have a crack from that range.

[Hunter403]

I'll take my tongue out of my cheek now....

[GazFish35]

Less in the wall means you open more of the goal to a ball going around the wall, the solution, move more centrally (as you suggest) but this then opens the far post to a curling shot.


The easiest thing in the world is to defend a free-kick with hindsight.

I reckon next time a keeper is faced with a penalty, he should position himself on the goal line exactly where the guy is going to kick it. Easy.

[true waterboy]

I reckon next time a keeper is faced with a penalty, he should position himself on the goal line exactly where the guy is going to kick it. Easy.

true. But you dont stand next to one post, hoping he is not good enough to pass into the back of the net on the other side of the goal.

[GazFish35]

true. But you dont stand next to one post, hoping he is not good enough to pass into the back of the net on the other side of the goal.

True. That's why in a free kick situation you set up a wall.

And there is no "hoping" as when you plan to use hindsight you "know"

[MFKS]

In the last 3 seasons the keeper for us has been Birraz 70% BK 30% approx..

In that time off the top of my head BK has let in at least 4 FK ADP Finklér Marinkovic Hicks

As for Birraz I can't recall one off the top of my head.

Pretty damming stats for BK

[true waterboy]

there is plent of hoping if you set up a wall and position yourself to not be able to cover the free space behind the wall if it does indeed go over.
we arent talking about the ball going in top corner of the net, most of the free kicks he lets in are a good meter off the post. he should be able to get at least a hand to these as a professional keeper.
most keepers you are confident if the ball goes over the wall they are a reasonable chance of getting a hand to it. with bk it feels like if the ball goes over the wall its game over.

[GazFish35]

Lol.

"Off the top my head" stats.


You should work for the treasury department.

[pv4]

with bk it feels like if the ball goes over the wall its game over.

Judging by what has been said in this thread already, it seems that some are under the belief that a freekick that manages to go over the wall is game over regardless of who is in goals.

Is Mr Statto able to clarify how many goals conceded from that zone of free kick? I assume we're OK to write off the likes of Bosnar's as that was a hilarious accident rather than the kind of stat we're after in this argument.

[belchardo]

In the last 3 seasons the keeper for us has been Birraz 70% BK 30% approx..

In that time off the top of my head BK has let in at least 4 FK ADP Finklér Marinkovic Hicks

As for Birraz I can't recall one off the top of my head.

Pretty damming stats for BK

ummmm, Eddie Bosnar?

[GazFish35]

In the last 3 seasons the keeper for us has been Birraz 70% BK 30% approx..

In that time off the top of my head BK has let in at least 4 FK ADP Finklér Marinkovic Hicks

As for Birraz I can't recall one off the top of my head.

Pretty damming stats for BK


Can you link me the marinkovic one? I can't find it.

And birraz? I'm not interested in comparisons between the two, that's been hashed out, but the fact you've forgotten one only serves my long standing point that anything BK does is tainted by his poor form years and years ago, and birraz was treated as the golden child by many fans (probably simply as he wasn't bk)


Remember this one?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KwvU270mOCA

[GazFish35]

Judging by what has been said in this thread already, it seems that some are under the belief that a freekick that manages to go over the wall is game over regardless of who is in goals.

Is Mr Statto able to clarify how many goals conceded from that zone of free kick? I assume we're OK to write off the likes of Bosnar's as that was a hilarious accident rather than the kind of stat we're after in this argument.


No-ones arguing it's game over, people are arguing that if he can do it, the attackers deserves more credit for the free kick than than the keeper deserves blame.

Bk positioning isn't bad, his ability to cover ground sideways, quickly, ie his explosive power, might need attention.

[plague]

ummmm, Eddie Bosnar?
I'm sure the good Member means "closer than 40m"

[Jeterpool]

Judging by what has been said in this thread already, it seems that some are under the belief that a freekick that manages to go over the wall is game over regardless of who is in goals.

Is Mr Statto able to clarify how many goals conceded from that zone of free kick? I assume we're OK to write off the likes of Bosnar's as that was a hilarious accident rather than the kind of stat we're after in this argument.

Nope. Don't have that data. That's Opta level mate. Rolls Royce of stats. I'm more your Subaru model statto.

[parksey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4lrjYb-y68

just do this next time bk

[pv4]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4lrjYb-y68

just do this next time bk

Do you mean you want BK to take steps towards the side of the goal he knows the ball is going to?

[Grimario]

Nope. Don't have that data. That's Opta level mate. Rolls Royce of stats. I'm more your Subaru model statto.

Subaru is doing yourself a disservice.

[plague]

Do you mean you want BK to take steps towards the side of the goal he knows the ball is going to?

Legit, I was at that game.
Remember that save like yesterday.
Unbelievable.

[Local Rules]

Looking at the replay and with a left footed player taking the kick I would say it was more then reasonable to expect he was going to aim for the near post as that is the natural curve for a ball when hit with that foot in that position. In my opinion BK is only probably a half to three quarters of a full step from where he should be and this may have made a slight difference to the coverage he had for this kick. Even having one less in the wall would have positioned him in a better place to cover both the near and far post as it would have dictated his positioning. All in all it was a well taken free kick that in 80% of cases would never be saved but BK still should have dived with arms extended instead of like a salmon spawning.

[plague]

Do you mean you want BK to take steps towards the side of the goal he knows the ball is going to?

Yeah BK, be as good as DeGea FFS.

[plague]

Looking at the replay and with a left footed player taking the kick I would say it was more then reasonable to expect he was going to aim for the near post as that is the natural curve for a ball

Except this is the spot where someone should post the free kicks Goodwin and Ryan Griffiths scored from in the early games of a few seasons back. From memory both were in a similar position and both times they went far post and scored.
I remember one against the Sydney bloke and he got caught out guessing it was going near post.

But yeah anyway.

[GazFish35]

Bk really needs to start time traveling so instead of positioning and preparing himself for the multitude of possible outcomes from the free kick, he'll know what's going to happen, and just prepare for that one.

[Local Rules]

Except this is the spot where someone should post the free kicks Goodwin and Ryan Griffiths scored from in the early games of a few seasons back. From memory both were in a similar position and both times they went far post and scored.
I remember one against the Sydney bloke and he got caught out guessing it was going near post.

But yeah anyway.

Was not saying he was going to go this way but hitting a ball with the left foot the natural curve of the ball will bring it from BK's right to his left. To score far post the ball needs to start outside the post and draw back. As BK is right hand dominant this means he will have greater power driving towards the post to his right (far post) rather then his left which means to compensate for the weaker side (near post) he needs to position himself more towards that side. Good free kicks will always be scored and Hicks took advantage and placed it perfectly. Give him the same shot another 50 times with a keeper in and he probably makes 2. Goalkeeper is a mongrel of a position because people only remember the ones you let in not the ones you save.

[plague]

As BK is right hand dominant this means he will have greater power driving towards the post to his right (far post) rather then his left which means to compensate for the weaker side (near post) he needs to position himself more towards that side.

A bit off topic but is this fact?
I always thought that you had better reach with your 'opposite hand' i.e. diving to his left would have meant saving it with his right hand (Bozza always bangs on about this).
I'm not sure how your theory fits in here.
Can you elaborate?


Not taking the piss I'm legit interested in what you meant here.

[Grimario]

While I am more than happy to slag off BK... who gave the FK away? Maybe we should start looking at unnecessary fouls by our chumps.

And before we start looking at unnecessary fouls, maybe we should look at the people who lose the ball in the first place.

And before we start looking at people that lose possession all the time, maybe we should start looking at the bloke responsible for training them/bringing them to/keeping them at the club and implementing the tactics.

In summary, Stubbins Out.

[My2BobsWorth]

I think most people know that BK has a lot going on at the moment, but he still made the SBS team of the week, along with Regs. Shut the thread.

[MFKS]

Can you link me the marinkovic one? I can't find it.

And birraz? I'm not interested in comparisons between the two, that's been hashed out, but the fact you've forgotten one only serves my long standing point that anything BK does is tainted by his poor form years and years ago, and birraz was treated as the golden child by many fans (probably simply as he wasn't bk)


Remember this one?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KwvU270mOCA

I thought we were discussing free kicks where a wall was set up and a direct free kick was gonna occur from in and around the D and not obscure FreeKick's being scored from

I will play fair though and allow you that one with Birraz as it is about all that you will have to play with and just remember I am being generous as I could also include others like BK's inability to stop Welsh's 4 seconds of glory the other week


As for Marinkovic's Free Kick it was in the game at the backend of last season where we were 1-0 up in Perth after a Taggz goal and coasting to the semis and Marinkovic scored a FK after a dubious foul by Griffo and then Chris Harold scored a minute later and we somehow blew a 1-0 lead in under 60 seconds in the last 5 mins.

So far we have Birraz's one howler at Gosford in 70% of games in the last 3 years and 4 to BK in 30% of games in the last 3 years.

Can someone then enlighten me as to what Birraz was doing cause he surely must have had to deal with some freekicks with a wall around the D in all those games he played to keep his stats so low compared to BK???

Maybe BK is just shit unlucky or maybe Birraz knows how to set a wall properly???

[militiamon]

Looking at the replay and with a left footed player taking the kick I would say it was more then reasonable to expect he was going to aim for the near post as that is the natural curve for a ball when hit with that foot in that position. In my opinion BK is only probably a half to three quarters of a full step from where he should be and this may have made a slight difference to the coverage he had for this kick. Even having one less in the wall would have positioned him in a better place to cover both the near and far post as it would have dictated his positioning. All in all it was a well taken free kick that in 80% of cases would never be saved but BK still should have dived with arms extended instead of like a salmon spawning.

ffs you guys :rof: :rof: :rof:

[hawk]

there is plent of hoping if you set up a wall and position yourself to not be able to cover the free space behind the wall if it does indeed go over.
we arent talking about the ball going in top corner of the net, most of the free kicks he lets in are a good meter off the post. he should be able to get at least a hand to these as a professional keeper.
most keepers you are confident if the ball goes over the wall they are a reasonable chance of getting a hand to it. with bk it feels like if the ball goes over the wall its game over.

BK is working for us not against us. hope he stands backwards for the next one and randomly dives.

[Local Rules]

I think what Bozza is banging on about is using the top hand to make the save rather then being the dominant hand. If you are going single hand in order to parry the ball around the post then there will always be a stronger side where you push off. The save that he would have had to make for this would have been with the top hand if he hadn't salmon spawned it and put his hands by his side.

[MFKS]

BK is working for us not against us. hope he stands backwards for the next one and randomly dives.

His success rate of stopping them will probably go up with the law of probability etc

[GazFish35]

I thought we were discussing free kicks where a wall was set up and a direct free kick was gonna occur from in and around the D and not obscure FreeKick's being scored from

I will play fair though and allow you that one with Birraz as it is about all that you will have to play with and just remember I am being generous as I could also include others like BK's inability to stop Welsh's 4 seconds of glory the other week


As for Marinkovic's Free Kick it was in the game at the backend of last season where we were 1-0 up in Perth after a Taggz goal and coasting to the semis and Marinkovic scored a FK after a dubious foul by Griffo and then Chris Harold scored a minute later and we somehow blew a 1-0 lead in under 60 seconds in the last 5 mins.

So far we have Birraz's one howler at Gosford in 70% of games in the last 3 years and 4 to BK in 30% of games in the last 3 years.

Can someone then enlighten me as to what Birraz was doing cause he surely must have had to deal with some freekicks with a wall around the D in all those games he played to keep his stats so low compared to BK???

Maybe BK is just shit unlucky or maybe Birraz knows how to set a wall properly???


What does a comparison of birraz v bk have to do with this anyway?
That's been hashed out long ago, and birraz is now on the other side of the world.

I reckon there's couple of hundred keepers in Europe better too, but it's nothing to do with the issue we are discussing.

[MFKS]

What does a comparison of birraz v bk have to do with this anyway?
That's been hashed out long ago, and birraz is now on the other side of the world.

I reckon there's couple of hundred keepers in Europe better too, but it's nothing to do with the issue we are discussing.

It actually is a fair comparison

The bloke who has played 2/3 of the games in the last 3 seasons has let 1 free kicks in
The bloke who has played 1/3 of the games in the last 3 seasons has let 4 free kicks in

Maybe there are some fundamental issues with BK's work at Free Kicks because for some reason Birraz managed to keep the things out (bar the night at Gosford :sigh:) when he was in goals for us

[GazFish35]

Wow, there are so many variables, not least of which is your "off the top of my head" approach to data selection that I could counter your argument by pointing out that for those 30% of games birraz was worse (therefore not selected) than someone who was worse than him 70% of the time, and therefore assume that in those 30% of game birraz would have also let those 4 free kicks in.... And have as much plausibility.

[MFKS]

Wow, there are so many variables, not least of which is your "off the top of my head" approach to data selection that I could counter your argument by pointing out that for those 30% of games birraz was worse (therefore not selected) than someone who was worse than him 70% of the time, and therefore assume that in those 30% of game birraz would have also let those 4 free kicks in.... And have as much plausibility.

My off the top of the head approach to data was only me indicating from my memory of what I can recall. I was not suggesting it was definitive and 100% and am happy to be proving wrong if you can remind me of examples of Birraz failing at FK's with wall.

On another note I do like it how the tables have turned and you are arguing semantics with me as the actual debate gets side tracked :rof:

Well Played

[pv4]

While I am more than happy to slag off BK... who gave the FK away? Maybe we should start looking at unnecessary fouls by our chumps.

:rof: I already have a bit of a rant prepared for the Jetstream podcast to answer this.

[pv4]

Except this is the spot where someone should post the free kicks Goodwin and Ryan Griffiths scored from in the early games of a few seasons back. From memory both were in a similar position and both times they went far post and scored.
I remember one against the Sydney bloke and he got caught out guessing it was going near post.

But yeah anyway.

TBF that Goodwin one against Janjetovic was basically a corner, and Janjetovic in that instance proved how useless he was when he basically got chipped by it. That was more a highlight of how useless Janjetovic is rather than a well-taken freekick from Goodwin.

You're not wrong about the Griffiths freekick v Heart though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzSh_YZ6Uk

[pv4]

A bit off topic but is this fact?
I always thought that you had better reach with your 'opposite hand' i.e. diving to his left would have meant saving it with his right hand (Bozza always bangs on about this).
I'm not sure how your theory fits in here.
Can you elaborate?


Not taking the piss I'm legit interested in what you meant here.

I also thought that keepers who are right-footed were meant to dive better to their left as they're pushing off from their dominant foot.

[pv4]

What does a comparison of birraz v bk have to do with this anyway?

It has a lot to do with this as we're comparing where we once were with our keeping stocks, to why/how it has gone so differently now. We're identifying the problem, finding the root cause, and looking to the future. If we were conceding less with what most people (yourself included iirc) agreed was a better keeper, that allows us to draw the conclusion that to be a competitive side in the future we need to bring a better keeper back in.

You seem to not want to recognise it but those stats when looking at BK's freekicks are pretty interesting, at the very least.

[Jeterpool]

Do you reckon these discussions have been going on between Stubbins and JVS or Youngy before him?

[GazFish35]

It has a lot to do with this as we're comparing where we once were with our keeping stocks, to why/how it has gone so differently now. We're identifying the problem, finding the root cause, and looking to the future. If we were conceding less with what most people (yourself included iirc) agreed was a better keeper, that allows us to draw the conclusion that to be a competitive side in the future we need to bring a better keeper back in.

You seem to not want to recognise it but those stats when looking at BK's freekicks are pretty interesting, at the very least.

Recognise what? That bk has let in four free kicks? Not hiding from that.

I'm asking why relevance is one keepers stats being compared to another keepers stats when we are discussing a technical error in a players game, particularly when the stats arent based on anything more than memory. The thread didn't start with, "remember when we had a better keeper than bk"

Birraz not letting in more than bk doesn't mean BK's positioning is wrong, there are way too many variables in any freekick to simplify a few seasons worth by simply looking at the result and who was in goals.

Put petr cech in goals, let Ronaldo hit freekicks. Now put bk in goals and let you or me hit freekicks.
Would the results suggest bk is better than cech because he concededed less? According to members assumptions he would be.

I've said it before, his lateral explosive movement is of more concern.

[GazFish35]

I also thought that keepers who are right-footed were meant to dive better to their left as they're pushing off from their dominant foot.

Dominant as in kicking foot?


When you dive to your left you push off from your left foot, dive to the right and you push off your right. Otherwise you can easily over-rotate and land on your stomach.

[pv4]

Do you reckon these discussions have been going on between Stubbins and JVS or Youngy before him?

I'm sure we'd all hope that the keeper coach reviews the game tape of each game and goes into detail with the head coach as well as the player on what he did right and wrong, and trainings were focused around the issues from the week previous plus the issues they predict to face in the upcoming weekend.

But it IS the Jerks, so for all we know they'll just have BK and Solari running shuttles all week.

[pv4]

Recognise what? That bk has let in four free kicks? Not hiding from that.

I'm asking why relevance is one keepers stats being compared to another keepers stats when we are discussing a technical error in a players game, particularly when the stats arent based on anything more than memeory.

Birraz not letting in more than bk doesn't mean BK's positioning is wrong, there are way too many variables in any freekick to simplify a few seasons worth by simply looking at the result and who was in goals.

Put petr cech in goals, let Ronaldo hit freekicks. Now put bk in goals and let you or me hit freekicks.
Would the results suggest bk is better than cech because he concededed less? According to members assumptions he would be.

I've said it before, his lateral explosive movement is of more concern.

We're discussing "BK and Free Kicks". The stats comparing BK and Biraz are worthy of noting because it shows that BK deals with the free kicks he faced, in less game time, worse than the free kicks Biraz faced, in more game time. Like I said before, it is looking at the past, present and future to sort our keeper issue in general. This thread isn't confined to talking solely about BK's positioning and explosive movement.

The stats don't have to be all-telling but they're a handy, somewhat-relevant, and existent indication.

Whether these stats are based from memory or not, we all know that BK has conceded at least 4 and Biraz at least 1 (how appropriate that 1 is to this argument, I still argue as I said yesterday it was more of a hilarious accident more than an indication in how he deals with free kicks of the nature we're referring to) free kick. Both players may have conceded more but that doesn't change we know at least the minimum, and the minimum is telling enough as is. If you're so worked up about it, find the legitimate stats for yourself. Otherwise the majority of us are happy to take these and make judgements from it. Just remember we have guys on this forum who answer Jeterpool's trivia questions weekly from memories. People can remember random goals from Heskey, random Friday night wins v Heart, and all this other stuff. If Biraz conceded more free kick goals, I'm confident someone would have said "didn't Broxham score that free kick in S7R18" or whatever.

[pv4]

Dominant as in kicking foot?


When you dive to your left you push off from your left foot, dive to the right and you push off your right. Otherwise you can easily over-rotate and land on your stomach.

I got told that ages ago.

Thinking about how you're saying it, I am now doubting whether it is true :rof:

[GazFish35]

We're discussing "BK and Free Kicks". The stats comparing BK and Biraz are worthy of noting because it shows that BK deals with the free kicks he faced, in less game time, worse than the free kicks Biraz faced, in more game time. Like I said before, it is looking at the past, present and future to sort our keeper issue in general. This thread isn't confined to talking solely about BK's positioning and explosive movement.

The stats don't have to be all-telling but they're a handy, somewhat-relevant, and existent indication.

Whether these stats are based from memory or not, we all know that BK has conceded at least 4 and Biraz at least 1 (how appropriate that 1 is to this argument, I still argue as I said yesterday it was more of a hilarious accident more than an indication in how he deals with free kicks of the nature we're referring to) free kick. Both players may have conceded more but that doesn't change we know at least the minimum, and the minimum is telling enough as is. If you're so worked up about it, find the legitimate stats for yourself. Otherwise the majority of us are happy to take these and make judgements from it. Just remember we have guys on this forum who answer Jeterpool's trivia questions weekly from memories. People can remember random goals from Heskey, random Friday night wins v Heart, and all this other stuff. If Biraz conceded more free kick goals, I'm confident someone would have said "didn't Broxham score that free kick in S7R18" or whatever.

So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.

This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.

The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either. The way you dismiss the Goodwin freekick past janjetavic as "nearly a corner" is another example of too many variables to simplify multiple seasons on simply the result.

If we do this, let's just look at goals against and decide the best keeper in the world in 1993 was me as I only conceeded 2 goals in 26 games. It's not accurate analysis and cheapens the work keepers do.

[pv4]

So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.

This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.

The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either.

If you can provide at least 1 example of Biraz facing a freekick, and at least 18 of BK facing freekicks, and no one can (or will) offer otherwise then sure, we can take it as fact enough.

People are ready to ignore Biraz's Bosnar brainsnap because the case in hand is about freekicks in "the Beckham zone" for a way to phrase it where the keeper has set a wall, knowing that the shot is on. No one is ignoring how poorly Biraz dealt with the Bosnar freekick, but the thing doesn't apply to this case. If you want to bring up a case for how keepers deal with miskicks, bobbling balls, and slipping over themselves - you have a great example right there.

[GazFish35]

So now it's jut in the beckham zone?

This thread started about BK's dealing with free-kicks.
Not "bk and bairraz and freekicks."
And certainly not "bk and birraz and freekicks in the beckham zone"

Someone keeps moving the goalposts and it's not me

[Jeterpool]

:popcorn:

[pv4]

So now it's jut in the beckham zone?

This thread started about BK's dealing with free-kicks.
Not "bk and bairraz and freekicks."
And certainly not "bk and birraz and freekicks in the beckham zone"

Someone keeps moving the goalposts and it's not me

Most of your (EDIT: rephrase to THE) arguments in this thread have been about wall positioning, keeper positioning in relation to the wall and ball, keeper vision in relation to the wall, and keeper reaction time. None of which, I think, apply to the Bosnar brainsnap of Biraz.

If you want to include the Bosnar thing in Biraz's cons list, feel free. It still reads BK 4, Biraz 1. If you want to include Biraz conceding goals from corners in this argument (which is about as applicable to this case we're arguing as the Bosnar freekick, for me) then feel free also. It doesn't change how relevant it is to this case.

[pv4]

Can you link me the marinkovic one? I can't find it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGs5wA-8gXI

3:15 onwards, just found it.

[GazFish35]

And my initial point is that anything birraz does is irrelevant in a discussion on bk's positioning.

[pv4]

And my initial point is that anything birraz does is irrelevant in a discussion on bk's positioning.

I feel like I've answered how relevant comparing the two is about 3 times now.

And for what it's worth, there is a possibility it is even more relevant in the fact that Biraz is still contracted to us for next season, so very well could be back playing for us again - and having forms of comparisons for when this arises can't be a bad thing.

[plague]

You're not wrong about the Griffiths freekick v Heart though


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nzSh_YZ6Uk

Cheers for posting that pv4.
Now please everyone watch it and read the following points.
From this goal and other examples posted on here (from Parksey and Mr Fish) and the BK one on the weekend.

All 4 keepers are lined up quite similarly (text book wall blocks the near post keeper protect the far post)

BK and the Joe Hart both start fairly flat footed and are beaten at the near post.
DeGea 'cheats' a little by (correctly) anticipating the shot and pulls off a great save.
Melb Heart keeper 'cheats' a little bit incorrectly guesses the shot and gets beat at the far post (the spot he is supposed to protect).

In those 4 instances the only bad keeping is from the Heart goalie who got beat at the side he was supposed to be protecting. Joe Hart and BK were beaten by good shots (Harts wall didn't help by falling apart), and DeGea (widely regarded as a top 3 goalie in the world) performed like a top 3 goalie and made a great save.

There is nothing more to it than that.

People bringing this one up as an example of bad keeping are dead wrong.

I maintain though that the Finkler one from earlier in the season was from poor positioning and organising from our keeper.

[Thomas477]

That example is a great reason why I have no faith in Kennedy. He just isn't good enough when dealing with free kicks. Whether or not that's his fault, or Gosling, Caitlin, Young or JVS, I don't know or care, all I know is that if we want to be a top club ever again, we need a better keeper than Kennnedy. Whether or not that is Birraz, or someone else, I don't know. My preference is Birraz, but that's not to say he's perfect.

[Premy]

Cheers for posting that pv4.
Now please everyone watch it and read the following points.
From this goal and other examples posted on here (from Parksey and Mr Fish) and the BK one on the weekend.

All 4 keepers are lined up quite similarly (text book wall blocks the near post keeper protect the far post)

BK and the Joe Hart both start fairly flat footed and are beaten at the near post.
DeGea 'cheats' a little by (correctly) anticipating the shot and pulls off a great save.
Melb Heart keeper 'cheats' a little bit incorrectly guesses the shot and gets beat at the far post (the spot he is supposed to protect).

In those 4 instances the only bad keeping is from the Heart goalie who got beat at the side he was supposed to be protecting. Joe Hart and BK were beaten by good shots (Harts wall didn't help by falling apart), and DeGea (widely regarded as a top 3 goalie in the world) performed like a top 3 goalie and made a great save.

There is nothing more to it than that.

People bringing this one up as an example of bad keeping are dead wrong.

I maintain though that the Finkler one from earlier in the season was from poor positioning and organising from our keeper.
Bang on end of thread.
:closed:

[BodyNovo]

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

[GazFish35]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGs5wA-8gXI

3:15 onwards, just found it.

Cheers

[Jeterpool]

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

This for me

[GazFish35]

I feel like I've answered how relevant comparing the two is about 3 times now.

And for what it's worth, there is a possibility it is even more relevant in the fact that Biraz is still contracted to us for next season, so very well could be back playing for us again - and having forms of comparisons for when this arises can't be a bad thing.


I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.



But the question was how is a comparison between birraz and bk freekick conceding stats relevant to BK's positioning at free kicks? There are far to many variables over the course of 2 and 1/2 seasons and within each situation, to suggest it's an indicator of poor positioning alone. You can't simplify things so much.

When the next free kick happens, if bk is in the right spot, or the wrong spot, this has nothing to do with birraz, or whether he's conceeded more or less than him.

[pv4]

I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.

This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.

[MFKS]

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.
I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.

[GazFish35]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

[BodyNovo]

I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.

wish the we would discuss the 10 other shit blokes just as much.

[pv4]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

Heya, he found one!!

[GazFish35]

Heya, he found one!!

Should start a thread about it I guess.

[GazFish35]

This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.


There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,

[De-Champ]

So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.

This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.

The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either. The way you dismiss the Goodwin freekick past janjetavic as "nearly a corner" is another example of too many variables to simplify multiple seasons on simply the result.

If we do this, let's just look at goals against and decide the best keeper in the world in 1993 was me as I only conceeded 2 goals in 26 games. It's not accurate analysis and cheapens the work keepers do.

I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.

[GazFish35]

I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.

Wear the badge with honour

[pv4]

There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,

Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.

[GazFish35]

Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.

Then just say 4 goals in bugger all appearances is damning, not that 4 when compared to birraz is damning.

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.

[pv4]

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.

OK, now we're thinking along the same lines.

The way you wrote it, it seemed you were saying completely disregard it.

[plague]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?

[De-Champ]

Wear the badge with honour

I'd like to but to be honest I "hated" being in goals.

[MFKS]

Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?

BK is still a shit keeper and leading :sup:

[Jetmaster]

What a **** thread, can't be bothered reading back as I full know what the context will be.

[pv4]

Then just say 4 goals in bugger all appearances is damning, not that 4 when compared to birraz is damning.

Realised I miss this.

I think the Biraz comparison was worth noting. It highlights that we seemingly weren't as prone to conceding these kind of freekicks when we played Biraz, who played more game time. Whether that comes down to the defence organisation by Biraz, whether it be that he saved the other 3 that BK didn't, whether it was luck, or I'm sure a few more factors can be considered here. But I think it was worth noting that we seemingly have a higher percentage of these incidents happening with one keeper as opposed to the other, and perhaps that is something to look at fixing for the future.

[hamburgler]

What a **** thread, can't be bothered reading back as I full know what the context will be.

Read back 2 pages, what a load of dribble!

[GazFish35]

Realised I miss this.

I think the Biraz comparison was worth noting. It highlights that we seemingly weren't as prone to conceding these kind of freekicks when we played Biraz, who played more game time. Whether that comes down to the defence organisation by Biraz, whether it be that he saved the other 3 that BK didn't, whether it was luck, or I'm sure a few more factors can be considered here. But I think it was worth noting that we seemingly have a higher percentage of these incidents happening with one keeper as opposed to the other, and perhaps that is something to look at fixing for the future.


If only things were that simple.
All that data tells us is what happened, not why.

It's gives no ability to predict future outcomes.

[pv4]

If only things were that simple.
All that data tells us is what happened, not why.

It's gives no ability to predict future outcomes.

You and others were wanting BK to come in for Biraz earlier in the year due to form, and stated something along the lines of form being the only thing you had as evidence to judge the player from. What has happened won't be able to predict the future but it's a good indication of where we've gone wrong in the past.

Hopefully the goalkeepers are being worked on their handling of free kick situations, hopefully the squad in general is being worked on not giving away fouls in dangerous positions, and hopefully we don't concede free kicks and goals like that in the future.

[GazFish35]

You and others were wanting BK to come in for Biraz earlier in the year due to form, and stated something along the lines of form being the only thing you had as evidence to judge the player from. What has happened won't be able to predict the future but it's a good indication of where we've gone wrong in the past.

Yes, but that assessment of form was not based on simply the outcome of an event, but an overall assessment of performance.

It may well indicate that something went wrong or right, but it doesn't tell you what that thing was.

Again, if the thread was a discussion on bk v birraz, but even the member has stated these debates are now redundant, and this thread wasn't about birraz.

Might start dragging up stats about stu musalik when discussing carvellas roundabouts and pass completion rates.

[Jeterpool]

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

[belchardo]

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

stop exaggerating.

[furns]

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

Get your own material :tongue:

[R Ramjet]

If BK moves the wall slightly more to his left or takes the person on the right out of the wall it gives him a better sight and he can move a step further to his left. All this things give him a better chance of saving the goal. It was a good free kick but not a great free kick. Definitely savable. He got no where near the ball and never looked like saving it at any stage. He is an average keeper who is a number 2 keeper and a handy back up keeper. Shouldnt be first choice keeper every week but hey thats how bad we are these days ! No point always blaming the keeper when the opposition scores but when the keeper is facing a free kick he is responsible for placing the wall and his own positioning. Maybe he needs a player on each goalpost on the line to assist him if he cant get his positioning right ?

[MFKS]

If BK moves the wall slightly more to his left or takes the person on the right out of the wall it gives him a better sight and he can move a step further to his left. All this things give him a better chance of saving the goal. It was a good free kick but not a great free kick. Definitely savable. He got no where near the ball and never looked like saving it at any stage. He is an average keeper who is a number 2 keeper and a handy back up keeper. Shouldnt be first choice keeper every week but hey thats how bad we are these days ! No point always blaming the keeper when the opposition scores but when the keeper is facing a free kick he is responsible for placing the wall and his own positioning. Maybe he needs a player on each goalpost on the line to assist him if he cant get his positioning right ?

He may as well **** the wall stand in the centre of the goal and tell the Nix bloke have a go. I reckon he would have a better hope of keeping it out doing it this way.

It is almost like as soon as that wall goes up he has less chance of keeping it out.

[Bluebeard]

just need another brick in the wall

[MFKS]

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

[hawk]

just another clean sheet for bk

[GazFish35]

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

[GazFish35]

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

[q-money]

the stupidity of the midfield is the problem, not BK's organising of the back 4

pretty much all of the free kicks in dangerous areas i could remember yesterday were given away by caravella, welsh & co

this is probably a direct result of the stubbins kick everyone policy

[pv4]

Regan gave away the foul for the Nix game.

[q-money]

you're stupid too

[MFKS]

Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

I will blame the Gypos for not hitting the target. That last one even though it missed he was awfully stuck in the one spot

[GazFish35]

They didn't hit the target because the wall was positioned perfectly, forcing the striker to attempt something beyond his skill set.

:lulzturtle:

Like when zadkovich shoots and all defender clear a path to goal for him to miss.

[Premy]

New thread for Nathan Coe and FK's

[MFKS]

They didn't hit the target because the wall was positioned perfectly, forcing the striker to attempt something beyond his skill set.

:lulzturtle:

Like when zadkovich shoots and all defender clear a path to goal for him to miss.

That's a generous call giving BK all the credit

FFS They are Gypos

Everything is beyond their skill set

[GazFish35]

The bloke last week was kiwi who's eyes are abnormally close together in his head, but bk still was afforded all the blame by some.

Just applying the same logic. ;)

[MFKS]

The bloke last week was kiwi who's eyes are abnormally close together in his head, but bk still was afforded all the blame by some.

Just applying the same logic. ;)

That's actually quite offensive to compare Kiwi's and Gypo's of being of similar calibre. Kiwi's don't deserve to be ridiculed like that. They are a thousand times better than Gypo's

[pv4]

you're stupid too

:(

[plague]

just another clean sheet for bk

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--oBV9EHC1--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/tianriam53qhyzafeo0v.gif

[Jeterpool]

Bump

[The Camel]

****ing shit **** didn't even dive.

[plague]

Best thread

[Jeterpool]

This should distract from the plastic fan debate

[Jetmaster]

We won - who gives a shit?

[Jeterpool]

We won - who gives a shit?

But but but........

[Thomas477]

We won - who gives a shit?

Exactly, a win over a massively understrength wanderers should be enough to paper over all the cracks that were apparent. God knows Adelaide will be trembling in their boots next week seeing we beat the wanderers youth side 2-1!

[MFKS]

Honestly that was a ****ing disgraceful effort from BK.

Credit he saved our arse a few times in the first half but his effort at dealing with this free kick was ****ing poor. The second effort that hit the side netting he was exactly the same and it was more fortune than anything it didn't go in

Can we make a sub when we concede free kicks coz he has NFI

[plague]

The second effort that hit the side netting he was exactly the same and it was more fortune than anything it didn't go in

Good pick up Member.
I thought the goal from Kelmar was the same as the others. obvs the plan was for BK to take the open side as usual and for Hoole to protect the spot behind the wall.
I've no doubt BK was playing for the shot to go open side (from memory there was a left footer lined up to take that shot).
Good free kick, goal. BK was never getting it.

As for the other one that hit the side netting (I've only seen it once) BK looked like he got it all wrong and was lucky the shot missed. He was pretty poor on that one imo.

The haterz should be focusing on that one, not the goal, if you want to have a dig at the bloke.

[plague]

On the plus side he was still by far the best keeper on the park today.

Ante wtf?

[GazFish35]

The haterz should be focusing on that one, not the goal, if you want to have a dig at the bloke.

So, what you're getting at is the haterz analysis of the situation is poor. First time for everything I suppose.

[hawk]

Bk sees no sense in winning by too much. why dive when 2 up. keeps excitement levels up.

[plague]

So, what you're getting at is the haterz analysis of the situation is poor. First time for everything I suppose.

Sorta.
Just reackon BK was poor on the other free kick that hit the side netting and he had a shocker giving up the (2nd?) goal against Heart.
I can more than agree people having a dig at those but for some reason people always go back to well taken free kicks.

[MFKS]

Good pick up Member.
I thought the goal from Kelmar was the same as the others. obvs the plan was for BK to take the open side as usual and for Hoole to protect the spot behind the wall.
I've no doubt BK was playing for the shot to go open side (from memory there was a left footer lined up to take that shot).
Good free kick, goal. BK was never getting it.

As for the other one that hit the side netting (I've only seen it once) BK looked like he got it all wrong and was lucky the shot missed. He was pretty poor on that one imo.

The haterz should be focusing on that one, not the goal, if you want to have a dig at the bloke.

Totally disagree that BK was never getting it. That was defo not a world class free kick from Kaimar.

BK set up issue is that he has so much faith in the wall that anything going that side he ain't dealing with at all.

Basically the free kick taker has anywhere 2-3 metres the side of the wall to score as BK isn't making any effort to get to that spot.
I understand our wall mannequin has more than likely been repossessed or flogged on eBay by now but every other club bar the Gypos would have one. I am pretty certain the opposition sides practice that exact free kick at training going over the wall into the goal. There success rate should be reasonable at training without a keeper. The way BK deals with them it is a training drill for them as the keeper ain't contributing

As for the second one Kalmar over thought the thing and backed he could have went round the wall and curled it. He wasn't far from succeeding and it was just him being a shit **** that was the issue.

It is a ****ing big issue this and the BK fanbois need to accept the bloke has big issues in this department

[plague]

Totally disagree that BK was never getting it. That was defo not a world class free kick from Kaimar.

BK set up issue is that he has so much faith in the wall that anything going that side he ain't dealing with at all.


He is supposed to have faith in the wall. That's its job.
Obvs Stubs has been reading this thread coz he finally tried to cover the space with Hoole but in typical Jets fashion that all went to poop too.

If BK stood behind the wall then the left footer over the ball hits an easier shot into the open side.

If blokes on here can't see that then I can't do nothin for u man.

[MFKS]

Obvs Stubs has been reading this thread

Rock up tomorrow and quit you Muppet


We will see how that works then

[belchardo]

Looking forward to the reasons given why BK should have saved the second goal.

[MFKS]

Looking forward to the reasons given why BK should have saved the second goal.

Didn't pay much attention because I was starting a Stubbins Out chant the second it went in. From memory it looked a great strike though I could be mistaken

[plague]

Didn't he save a free kick last night that went over the wall?
Forza BK.

[pv4]

Didn't he save a free kick last night that went over the wall?
Forza BK.

WE DONE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200901/r331745_1496920.jpg

[cobra23]

Looking forward to the reasons given why BK should have saved the second goal.

Nothing he could have done, cracking goal.

[Grimario]

Didn't he save a free kick last night that went over the wall?
Forza BK.

BK, he's like a bad version of that Meatloaf song.

One out of six thousand and three ain't bad

[Thomas477]

Ah Con, miss the guy and his antics. :blush:

[WolfMan]

Ah Con, miss the guy and his antics. :blush:

I think we'll look back in a few years time and say he was the best Owner we ever had....

[MFKS]

I think we'll look back in a few years time and say he was the best Owner we ever had....

He is definitely better than the current one and every other one we have had and I would go as far as saying he is the best owner we have ever had now and not wait for one day.

We at least made the finals 4 of the 5 years he ran the club and he had a decent record in the NSL also

[Thomas477]

He is definitely better than the current one and every other one we have had and I would go as far as saying he is the best owner we have ever had now and not wait for one day.

We at least made the finals 4 of the 5 years he ran the club and he had a decent record in the NSL also

And even with his shenanigans, you knew he was trying his best to bring success to the club. Didn't always work, but his heart was in the right place.

Maybe a banner for the last home game "Bring back Con"?

[WolfMan]

While I agree with your sentiments, I was merely taking the pi$$ with reference to the previous rhetoric RE: Brillante

[plague]

Was interesting to see that EPL level goalie get beat over the wall this morning despite a full length dive.

It's like there's no justice in this world.

[pv4]

As a legitimate question to the people who wanted BK in when Biraz was playing for us (and because I cbf finding the BK vs Biraz thread) - do you guys want John Solari to be given a chance next game, and for the rest of this season?

IIRC there were multiple reasons you guys wanted BK in when Biraz was conceding goals, but the ones I can vaguely remember were:
- Biraz was conceding goals, we were losing (or not winning) games
- The only thing you (we) had to judge keepers on was form, and Biraz was "clearly not in form" so why not give BK a chance to assess and compare his form to Biraz's. It was/is impossible to say how the keeper who wasn't playing would go in the same situations without seeing it first-hand.
- Training form was irrelevant and hard to judge (and too subjective), games were the only indicator we could properly assess it. So why not give him a crack?

And for those reasons I ask: does your logic now say it is time to give our reserve keeper a run of starts to assess if he would or wouldn't be a better option than BK?

This is particularly focused at GazFish, but happy for any of the guys who agreed with Gaz and co when they said the above back in the day, to give their thoughts also.

[MFKS]

Considering Muppet has failed to really give anyone other than Cowburn a solid go from the Yoof in recent weeks then why ask??

Pavichevick Lundy and Crowley have got on the park but haven't exactly been blessed with a decent opportunity as such more so cameos

You honestly think BK is getting dropped to give the Yoof Keeper a go particularly with BK having such a good agent???

[Thomas477]

After seeing Scolari playing in the NPL, I wouldn't hold my breath.

But it does seem like BK can't be criticised. I remember that Birghitti was dropped after the roar game because his kicking was off, never mind the fact that he kept that score respectful and was our best that night. Could easily have been 7. BK should've been dropped by now, but Mr Stubborns can't admit he was wrong.

[parksey]

Absolutely horrendous stuff from BK last night.

I think he cops a bit more than he should, and I do like the guy a lot, but I think by this point in his career it's clear that he's not a top 'keeper and never will be.

[Tommyjet]

Absolutely horrendous stuff from BK last night.

I think he cops a bit more than he should, and I do like the guy a lot, but I think by this point in his career it's clear that he's not a top 'keeper and never will be.

We better not just promote solari in the offseason. If Kennedy isn't gonna be replaced by top keeper then it at least has to be someone to put immense pressure on him

[WolfMan]

Absolutely horrendous stuff from BK last night.

I think he cops a bit more than he should, and I do like the guy a lot, but I think by this point in his career it's clear that he's not a top 'keeper and never will be.

Agree. Last night confirmed this, he should be riding the pine next season, as we sign some sort of quality keeper. Perfect world and all that.

[MFKS]

Agree. Last night confirmed this, he should be riding the pine next season, as we sign some sort of quality keeper. Perfect world and all that.

Just put our best keeper in goals and leave Birraz there

[WolfMan]

Doubt he'll be back personally

[plague]

Just saw the 'highlights'.
Only saw I go so working from memory.
Goal 1 not sure why he didn't come out for Brosques' run. Defence Didn't help him not tracking the bloke.

Goal 2 was that the one he parried? Can't really fault him there.

Goal 3 don't remember it as being good or bad for him.

Goal 4 oh dear. Legit if we had a keeper on the bench the coach thinks is worth keeping then BK should prob be getting a rest next week. No idea how good 3rd choice is.

Only thought is that Stubbs has plans to sign a top class keeper and let BK start #2 next year.

The status quo in our squad is not good enough at the moment.

[Grimario]

Just saw the 'highlights'.
Only saw I go so working from memory.
Goal 1 not sure why he didn't come out for Brosques' run. Defence Didn't help him not tracking the bloke.

Goal 2 was that the one he parried? Can't really fault him there.

Goal 3 don't remember it as being good or bad for him.

Goal 4 oh dear. Legit if we had a keeper on the bench the coach thinks is worth keeping then BK should prob be getting a rest next week. No idea how good 3rd choice is.

Only thought is that Stubbs has plans to sign a top class keeper and let BK start #2 next year.

The status quo in our squad is not good enough at the moment.

Goal 1 is more defenders fault than BK - most keepers would get beat 1 on 1 like that. Think the problem is he didn't commit to coming out or staying back, got caught in no mans land. Partially to blame I guess but fark me, that defending was awful.
Goal 2 is Mullen's fault IMO. No way Ibini should have got to the rebound if the defender was tracking back. Guilty of ball watching and only reacting to Ibini once he went past him.
Goal 3 was is one of the best headed goals in the A-League I can remember. No way BK can be blamed for it. Though I can't remember if the lead up play was him making a shit clearance (there were a few of those).
Goal 4, ****ing hell BK. Absolute shambles.

Could be worse... we could have Velaphi or Thomas in goals.

We really should do everything to get Vukovic away from Perth.

[pv4]

By this point in time, Solari should be up to at least challenging BK for a run. I know he was meant to be our youth/3rd keeper, and things have changed, but by now he should be up to some form of job at HAL level. And if the guys who have seen him beg to differ, and that he's not up to it, then that says he should be let go.

Drag the next young kid to take up NYL keeper. Sign Danny Ireland to the senior side. Re-sign BK. Sell Biraz (jesus wept). And let's see how we go for a full season, purely with local keepers. It will either be a masterstroke or evidently a failure - and then we can sign a legitimate keeper to start our games.

[WolfMan]

You're right, if you'd seen Solari play/train you wouldn't be calling for his inclusion

[BodyNovo]

get danny ireland in.

best keeper in the local league by far.

[MFKS]

Totally disagree with your points on goal 2.

No issue if he parries a fierce shot but I was under the impression you parry it out for a corner or towards the sideline and not back in the direction he did.
It wasn't the only time he done that on Friday and he got away with a few in the first half that could have been just as disastrous.

Whatever he is doing with this tactic needs looking at because to me it isn't good enough to have a keeper at this level parrying balls back into the penalty box

[Grimario]

Totally disagree with your points on goal 2.

No issue if he parries a fierce shot but I was under the impression you parry it out for a corner or towards the sideline and not back in the direction he did.
It wasn't the only time he done that on Friday and he got away with a few in the first half that could have been just as disastrous.

Whatever he is doing with this tactic needs looking at because to me it isn't good enough to have a keeper at this level parrying balls back into the penalty box

It was a powerful shot, centre of the goal, roughly waist height... to actually parry that so it goes out for a corner runs the risk of him parrying it directly into goals and being called out for that. It's not like he was sprawling close to either corner and parried it into play. Mullen is entirely to blame for that goal IMO.

[MFKS]

It was a powerful shot, centre of the goal, roughly waist height... to actually parry that so it goes out for a corner runs the risk of him parrying it directly into goals and being called out for that. It's not like he was sprawling close to either corner and parried it into play. Mullen is entirely to blame for that goal IMO.
**** I forgot BK is never responsible for anything :thumbsup: