The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[The Dunster]

The accords were made in exchange for a better welfare system. Full medicare, superannuation. All goals of the union movement.

The financial services industry and banks were the big winners from compulsory super
Medical professionals, pharmaceutical companies, and private health insurers were the big winners from medicare.

The traditional right dangled the bait and the Unions took it hook line and sinker.

There is no alternative to the Coalition in Australia. Everyone else is just a weaker / less developed version of them.

[MFKS]

Believe it or not. Many of these problems only became an issue after the Liberals ****wits began their attacks on the union movement. Wages have stagnated because workers no longer have any bargaining power. There has been a rise in worksite deaths. People are working more hours............Most of the workforce is either casual or part time.............

Add in the deployment of women into the workforce
Add in the constant supply of immigrants into the Labour market
Add in the excessive levels of beuracrcy that your leftist commy mates like inflicting on the world
I could go on with another thousand reasons why wages stagnate

The reality is if Unions actually had any pull this would never have happened
The reality is that most of them are as weak as piss and Skips voted accordingly by not joining them

That what happens when you let them get over run by socialist nutters

[plague]

Believe it or not. Many of these problems only became an issue after the Liberals ****wits began their attacks on the union movement. Wages have stagnated because workers no longer have any bargaining power. There has been a rise in worksite deaths. People are working more hours............Most of the workforce is either casual or part time.............

where did you get this info?
Because the stats i got from the official stats people (no not Jeterpool, the gubmint) say otherwise.
I didnt do every year as i figured y'all have the internet you can look this shit up.
I looked at years when the govt changed hands to see if there was any major spike.
Ive included union membership as % of the workforce next to the stats.

2007 - Kevin '07, Labor taking over from those bastard Tories 442 deaths (35% union members).
2010 - Here come the bastard tories back into power 374 deaths (Kev saved lives good job Kev). (18% union members).
2019 - Morrison the evil prick hates the workers taking over from the legacy of that murderous bastard Abbott he hated the workers too oh wait 152 deaths (14% union members).

So can someone explain how less deaths, less union members and multiple governments can back you statement up in any way shape of ****ing form?

im here for all the conversations, i appreciate the passion on all sides, but if you're gonna start putting up statements that are just flat out wrong then someones gonna go check those receipts and call you out.

[Skirt Boy]

where did you get this info?


https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/statistics-and-research/statistics/fatalities/fatality-statistics

[plague]

https://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/statistics-and-research/statistics/fatalities/fatality-statistics

oh ill absolutely agree that this year v last year supports your point. but as a long term trend and as an indictment of government and unions ill respectfully disagree.

[Jetmaster]

Ah the unions bless 'em. For 30 years I was a fully paid up believer, loved being called "comrade" and was forever grateful that apparently they fought hard and won all my work conditions.

Then came the agreement period of LK, LJ and AWA....I think the LK is the "certified" agreement that the unions favour (could be the other way around).

I remember working in the government with one of the larger agencies during EBA time. Usual ambit claims from both sides and a final pay increase was offered as well as it being covered by an LK agreement (no union ascent needed). CPSU fought on all counts for a no vote and succeeded the first time. Dragged on for 12 months and in the end we won a smaller payrise, worked increased hours and lost a picnic day. Got a yes vote as everyone had a gutful. Why did that happen, because the CPSU wanted that LJ agreement, got it and abandoned trying to improve pay and gave away some conditions. They actually said that it was "as good as we will get". Now if that was an employer behaving like that.......

Then we found out active CPSU membership in our agency was 18%. Vocal minority wanting to dictate terms. I cancelled almost immediately and never went back, not long after I voted ALP for the last time.

Too much "I want what you have so give it to me".

Oh and re payscales, fill your boots....

https://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Country=Australia/Salary

[Skirt Boy]

If there is a few things we can all agree on. Coasties are still ice addict gypo scum.

Jets supporters are a diverse bunch with communist revolutionaries, right wing nutjobs, business owners and blokes in the middle who vote for Scotty from Marketing.

But we all hate the ice addict gypo ****s.

[Jetmaster]

Who are born into their predicament......

And ain't that racism? :wink:

[The Dunster]

2007 - Kevin '07, Labor taking over from those bastard Tories 442 deaths (35% union members).


Composition of employment makes comparisons very difficult. Much like people making fools of themselves using inflation calculators to compare current prices of certain goods with historical prices.

Work today in Australia broadly speaking is physically a lot safer than it was in the past. {Women rarely participate in dangerous occupations and they make up a good chunk of the workforce today unlike in the past].
As far as depression and mental illness are concerned adverse outcomes and sometimes death are probably more an issue now than in the past.

[MFKS]

If there is a few things we can all agree on. Coasties are still ice addict gypo scum.

Jets supporters are a diverse bunch with communist revolutionaries, right wing nutjobs, business owners and blokes in the middle who vote for Scotty from Marketing.

But we all hate the ice addict gypo ****s.

Nice diversion work but you ain't fooling anyone

[380]

I have never posted in this thread in the past but here goes.

I am no longer in the workforce ( retired ) however i spent half my time working on wages in a union and the other half on a salary sitting down every couple of years with my employer nutting out my remuneration package inc car and the like.

In all my time in the workforce it never ceased to amaze me to hear all the union haters go on and on and on sticking the boot in at every opportunity. These are the very same gooses who can't get there hand out quick enough to be afforded the same benefits that have been derived over the years through union involvement in employment agreements.

Pretty hypocritical to put the boot in then put the hand out.

[MFKS]

Ah the unions bless 'em. For 30 years I was a fully paid up believer, loved being called "comrade" and was forever grateful that apparently they fought hard and won all my work conditions.

Then came the agreement period of LK, LJ and AWA....I think the LK is the "certified" agreement that the unions favour (could be the other way around).

I remember working in the government with one of the larger agencies during EBA time. Usual ambit claims from both sides and a final pay increase was offered as well as it being covered by an LK agreement (no union ascent needed). CPSU fought on all counts for a no vote and succeeded the first time. Dragged on for 12 months and in the end we won a smaller payrise, worked increased hours and lost a picnic day. Got a yes vote as everyone had a gutful. Why did that happen, because the CPSU wanted that LJ agreement, got it and abandoned trying to improve pay and gave away some conditions. They actually said that it was "as good as we will get". Now if that was an employer behaving like that.......

Then we found out active CPSU membership in our agency was 18%. Vocal minority wanting to dictate terms. I cancelled almost immediately and never went back, not long after I voted ALP for the last time.

Too much "I want what you have so give it to me".

Oh and re payscales, fill your boots....

https://www.payscale.com/research/AU/Country=Australia/Salary

And how much were you actually paying these bozos in your union dues to actually screw you over??

It scandalous how the leftists love adding levels of bueracracy so people get paid 6 figure salaries to dictate shit for others when the end results are actually worthless

[plague]

In all my time in the workforce it never ceased to amaze me to hear all the union haters go on and on and on sticking the boot in at every opportunity. These are the very same gooses who can't get there hand out quick enough to be afforded the same benefits that have been derived over the years through union involvement in employment agreements.

Pretty hypocritical to put the boot in then put the hand out.

this is a good point. i agree with it.

i also agree that if you dont want to join the union and go it alone you should be allowed to without repercussion.

the simple fact there are many many many unions who are never in the news should be a good enough guide to know that the majority of them do good work protecting the powerless. its also never sat well with me that people defend the ones that do illegal shit and are flatout shitcunce.
i think when people are seen to be 'anti-union', they are really only anti one or two of them.
i dont think theres any harm in going in hard on the shitcunce.

[380]

this is a good point. i agree with it.

i also agree that if you dont want to join the union and go it alone you should be allowed to without repercussion.

the simple fact there are many many many unions who are never in the news should be a good enough guide to know that the majority of them do good work protecting the powerless. its also never sat well with me that people defend the ones that do illegal shit and are flatout shitcunce.
i think when people are seen to be 'anti-union', they are really only anti one or two of them.
i dont think theres any harm in going in hard on the shitcunce.

Absolutely just like most organisations there will be a minority of self serving self interested rats tarnish it for all and they will be the low hanging fruit the anti union brigade will always mention to make there point trying to insinuate the actions of a few are also the actions of many.

No sensible minded person paid up member or not can defend such types like Williamson, Thomson and Kath Jackson just too name a few. There is no defence for what people of that ilk do take the dues of hard working people and misappropriate the funds on there corporate cards on themselves. Shit like that is deplorable.

[Frodo]

Nice diversion work but you ain't fooling anyone

Jeez, that's rich coming from Miss Direction over here.

[Frodo]

I only know of 2 blokes out of the 45 that I work with that isn't the in the union ( 900+ workers in total where I work), so I assume that almost all of our workforce are in the union except for staff roles (team leaders, engineers, admin etc). We get looked after, our delegate even gets shiny awards for being union delegate of the year and stuff. I've never had to rely on them but I know of heaps of people here that have had their job saved by a delegate who knows our EA back to front and knows when someone is being screwed by management. I'll argue with anyone who don't think Unions help workers, cause they definitely do.

[The Dunster]

this is a good point. i agree with it.

i also agree that if you dont want to join the union and go it alone you should be allowed to without repercussion.

the simple fact there are many many many unions who are never in the news should be a good enough guide to know that the majority of them do good work protecting the powerless. its also never sat well with me that people defend the ones that do illegal shit and are flatout shitcunce.
i think when people are seen to be 'anti-union', they are really only anti one or two of them.
i dont think theres any harm in going in hard on the shitcunce.

Anyone that opposes trade unions opposes capitalism. It's that simple because the capitalist system is based on the competing claims for income by those who receive it from profits and those who receive it from wages.

Both groups need to exist and there needs to be genuine competition between them otherwise you end up with a plutocracy - and that's a very inefficient form of economic organisation.

[Skirt Boy]

ASX-listed AP Eagers revealed on Tuesday it had identified "anomalies" in its payroll system that resulted in a number of employees being improperly classified under an award and others being underpaid superannuation contributions and for overtime.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/major-car-dealership-underpaid-employees-4-5m-20191217-p53kt5.html


How can you improperly classify somebody?

Unless the same guy who is incompetent is managing to get job after job in payroll...................

[plague]

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/major-car-dealership-underpaid-employees-4-5m-20191217-p53kt5.html


How can you improperly classify somebody?

Unless the same guy who is incompetent is managing to get job after job in payroll...................

with 52 genders to start with i can def see how Madge in payroll can get em wrong every now and then.

[plague]

also, do the math. its about $2 per employee per week affected.
if wage theft is their goal then these mother****ers are playing the longest of long games.

but of course, evil bastards etc etc

[plague]

actually one ill def agree with you on was that bastard restaurant bloke from the telly.

that industry is as dodgy as it comes, and i have no doubt in my mind that he was running some straight up bullshit with his staff.

again, burn those bastards.

[Skirt Boy]

also, do the math. its about $2 per employee per week affected.
if wage theft is their goal then these mother****ers are playing the longest of long games.

but of course, evil bastards etc etc

****ing oaf they are evil bastards. You don't short pay an employee $100. You short pay 100 employees $1

Think about this. Woolworths Group. Overall employees 200,000 people. 1/4 of the workforce gets shortchanged $1 each week. That's works out as $2,600,000 over the year. In addition to less money for employees. Managers are likely get bonuses for meeting targets. State governments will get less payroll tax...............................

It's basically business running elaborate bank account skimming.

[MFKS]

****ing oaf they are evil bastards. You don't short pay an employee $100. You short pay 100 employees $1

Think about this. Woolworths Group. Overall employees 200,000 people. 1/4 of the workforce gets shortchanged $1 each week. That's works out as $2,600,000 over the year. In addition to less money for employees. Managers are likely get bonuses for meeting targets. State governments will get less payroll tax...............................

It's basically business running elaborate bank account skimming.

Yeah and that bad publicity they get when they get caught out is worth much more in harm than the 2.6 million you think they tried to fleece

If anything the dodgiest of businesses I have found are smallish in nature. The bigger ones tend to not be interested in the PR disaster that comes by trying to scam $1 or $2 off someone an hourlike you claim


On another note if you so worried about Woolies scamming people why are you silent on the scamming of customers??
Those self serve check outs are costing them heaps through people not scanning or scanning wrong item , the giant exits which are unmanned they have now see more and more theft

So basically they are accepting that there is gonna be a loss here and are divorcing themselves of the responsibility of protecting their own assets from theft.

Then to balance they books they pass it on to the honest customers with increased prices

They be scamming more from that than your wage theft claim

[plague]

****ing oaf they are evil bastards. You don't short pay an employee $100. You short pay 100 employees $1

Think about this. Woolworths Group. Overall employees 200,000 people. 1/4 of the workforce gets shortchanged $1 each week. That's works out as $2,600,000 over the year. In addition to less money for employees. Managers are likely get bonuses for meeting targets. State governments will get less payroll tax...............................

It's basically business running elaborate bank account skimming.

but it was 3% of the workforce. not 25%.

also, i think in companies this size, who the hell benefits from 'wage skimming'.
cause it cant be the payroll person.
it cant be the store manager.
it cant be the CEO.

and even if they could somehow make it financially viable, the second any of this gets out people snitch. so far no one has been fingered either getting this missing money or having set the scam in motion. for it to get from a higher up down to a payroll data person would have to go through so many hands it would be impossible for everyone to keep they mouths shut.


thats why i believe the restaurant bloke is trash. he gets that extra cash straight in his account. i dont buy it as much with so many levels of management.

[The Dunster]

actually one ill def agree with you on was that bastard restaurant bloke from the telly.

This bloke ?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/B7UmUX68KtE/maxresdefault.jpg

[Skirt Boy]

They are self reporting..........Business is doing the right thing

OR

They are self reporting because so many have begun to be found out. What is it?

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/fair-work-ombudsman-launches-legal-action-against-australian-chatime-franchisor/news-story/bc912335f4ff79c572cf8b299e69a0df?utm_campaign=Edit orialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialFlow

[Skirt Boy]

And this is another thing about big business.

If I were to sell what I produce to say Cole's............I have to wait 30 days before being paid.........If they send me an invoice. I need to pay straight away.

[pv4]

OR

They are self reporting because so many have begun to be found out. What is it?

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/fair-work-ombudsman-launches-legal-action-against-australian-chatime-franchisor/news-story/bc912335f4ff79c572cf8b299e69a0df?utm_campaign=Edit orialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_content=SocialFlow

Why do the two have to be mutually exclusive

[380]

And this is another thing about big business.

If I were to sell what I produce to say Cole's............I have to wait 30 days before being paid.........If they send me an invoice. I need to pay straight away.

You would be surprised to lean that some of the leading suppliers extend 6 month E.O.M terms to the big two. You can be sure it is not the supplier dictating those terms of trade.

Just how many stock rotations and the relevant GP are they getting to bank from those lines over a 6 month period before they have to part with funds to pay for the stock past ordered that is 150-180 days ?.

[plague]

And this is another thing about big business.

If I were to sell what I produce to say Cole's............I have to wait 30 days before being paid.........If they send me an invoice. I need to pay straight away.

this is how all business works.
i think industry standard for retail terms in Australia is like 55 days or something.
If Coles group insists on up front, or 7 days, or whatever, then thats their terms of trade. You accept them or dont do business with Coles.

Oh, and i guarantee that Coles pays their rent on time. you see, just how Coles has leverage over some people. well others have leverage over Coles and they use it.

Its all standard business practices. absolutely nothing to be outraged about here.

[plague]

also, i know a bloke that brought a house once and hes not gonna fully pay that bill for like 30 years or something.

talk about stretching the friendship, wont somebody think of the big banks...........

[The Dunster]

also, i know a bloke that brought a house once and hes not gonna fully pay that bill for like 30 years or something.

talk about stretching the friendship, wont somebody think of the big banks...........
Mortgages operate through securitisation - it's not a case of the banks simply loaning from their deposit base.
In fact it's the complete opposite - loans create deposits. Banks simply make loans based on a persons ability to pay / service them - then they find the money through securitisation methods.
The securitisation is when an asset is converted into a marketable security.
THese marketable securities have a life span often of 30 years.

Other methods like transfer pricing [a legal form of tax avoidance] and forward exchange contracts to reduce risk where goods are purchased and sold in foreign currencies are also a reason why larger firms / corporations tend to operate lengthy payment terms.

[Frodo]

Impeachment vote today. McConnell has already said that he refuses to be impartial, which is technically a criminal offence since he takes an oath to do that very thing, but there's really little chance of any Republicans being brave enough to break ranks anyway.

Good ol democracy, where the jury gets to ask the defendant how they should vote. Lol.

[plague]

Mortgages operate through securitisation - it's not a case of the banks simply loaning from their deposit base.
In fact it's the complete opposite - loans create deposits. Banks simply make loans based on a persons ability to pay / service them - then they find the money through securitisation methods.
The securitisation is when an asset is converted into a marketable security.
THese marketable securities have a life span often of 30 years.

Other methods like transfer pricing [a legal form of tax avoidance] and forward exchange contracts to reduce risk where goods are purchased and sold in foreign currencies are also a reason why larger firms / corporations tend to operate lengthy payment terms.

orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr,
it could just be plague making a clearly absurd observation and we can just giggle/shake our heads and move on.

im legit, the #wellactually is fast becoming the southern cross tattoo of this foz.

[Frodo]

also, i know a bloke that brought a house once and hes not gonna fully pay that bill for like 30 years or something.

talk about stretching the friendship, wont somebody think of the big banks...........

Plague with the quick fix. Start charging interest on invoices as soon as they are submitted. Watch those payments come in nice and quick.

[plague]

Impeachment vote today. McConnell has already said that he refuses to be impartial, which is technically a criminal offence since he takes an oath to do that very thing, but there's really little chance of any Republicans being brave enough to break ranks anyway.

Good ol democracy, where the jury gets to ask the defendant how they should vote. Lol.

it will be interesting to see how the Dems vote as well.
wonder if any are willing to break ranks in order to cover their asses in the election. polls* havent been favourable to a few. principle v self preservation. human nature generally has a big problem with that one.









*obvs not that they are any indicator these days.

[Frodo]

it will be interesting to see how the Dems vote as well.
wonder if any are willing to break ranks in order to cover their asses in the election. polls* havent been favourable to a few. principle v self preservation. human nature generally has a big problem with that one.









*obvs not that they are any indicator these days.


Impeachment is still at well over 50% public approval, no impeachment is around *45%.

But i've only read of 1 Dem saying he won't impeach, he then said he would defect to the Republicans... and then his staff quit, lol. (https://news.yahoo.com/trump-praises-van-drew-switching-parties-134305542.html). Best part is now he got new numbers saying he will probably lose the next election if he changes teams so wants to stay Democrat, and they don't want him. Well played sir.

[MFKS]

it will be interesting to see how the Dems vote as well.
wonder if any are willing to break ranks in order to cover their asses in the election. polls* havent been favourable to a few. principle v self preservation. human nature generally has a big problem with that one.









*obvs not that they are any indicator these days.

What will be interesting his the meltdowns from the likes of Rosie O Donnell De Niro and other left wing nutters when they don't get their way

Amazing the simlarities between the Left & infants when they don't get their way

[Frodo]

What will be interesting his the meltdowns from the likes of Rosie O Donnell De Niro and other left wing nutters when they don't get their way

Amazing the simlarities between the Left & infants when they don't get their way

Someone doesn't even check Fox News or Trump's Twitter every other day. They are both as bad as each other. Also if your poster boy for the left is Rosie O'Donnell you probably don't pay enough attention to what's happening to comment.

[The Dunster]

The democrats have demonstrated that they are not afraid to use up scarce real resources in pursuit of their own personal agendas.
If only they made this much effort trying to solve issues like unemployment, education, and health care.

When America goes to the polls people will once again see the democrats for what they are rich khunts pretending they have a social conscience - when nothing could be further from the truth.

All this time and effort pursuing Trump when they have no chance of getting enough votes to remove him from office shows just how out of touch the democrats are with what the people want or need from those supposedly representing them.

What's the point ?

[MFKS]

Someone doesn't even check Fox News or Trump's Twitter every other day. They are both as bad as each other. Also if your poster boy for the left is Rosie O'Donnell you probably don't pay enough attention to what's happening to comment.

I don't watch Fox News

I also don't need to watch Trumps Twitter
The only people who do are people who need lessons in trolling which ain't me or leftists wanting to score oppression points

[Frodo]

Ouch. If I read that correctly, that's gonna hurt.

[plague]

Someone doesn't even check Fox News or Trump's Twitter every other day. They are both as bad as each other. Also if your poster boy for the left is Rosie O'Donnell you probably don't pay enough attention to what's happening to comment.

its almost as if theres a % of the population that thinks only 'their' side is the one behaving properly.
its astounding.

Im happy if Hannity is tied to Rosie when the fire pit starts gobbling them idiots up.

[Frodo]

Well, he's now only the 3rd president to be impeached. Who thinks he'll quit before the senate trial in January?

[The Dunster]

Oh the hypocrisy of the Democrats. You have an election around the corner why not let the people decide Trumps fate like they did Hillary's.

[MFKS]

Well, he's now only the 3rd president to be impeached. Who thinks he'll quit before the senate trial in January?

Quit ???

What the **** for??

He just got reelected today

And not only that he gonna get a bigger mandate

He playing 4D chess with these mofos

[plague]

Oh the hypocrisy of the Democrats. You have an election around the corner why not let the people decide Trumps fate like they did Hillary's.

hey man history will show he was only the 3rd Pres to cop the charge. he can never escape that 'honour'.
i think the Republicans have played the victimhood pretty well though.
can only think that if the Dems are successful in the 2020 election, this tactic will be fair game for everyone in the future.(which aint a good thing).
one thing is sure, they are gonna need one hell of a salesperson to push this case in the general election because Trump gonna be coming in hot.

also, Republicans already seeking revenge by dragging everyone in whos name popped up in the hearings. just ugly all round.

[MFKS]

Gotta admire the balls on the Iranians

That takes some balls

But not are they gonna cop a flogging for it

[The Dunster]

Gotta admire the balls on the Iranians

That takes some balls

But not are they gonna cop a flogging for it

Iran aren't scared of the USA on home soil.

Until Saddam Hussein helped them the US haven't really managed to put up much resistance against the Iranians.
The 1979 Iran Hostage crisis saw the US cop a flogging.
Then in 1988 the US shot down a passenger jet killing 292 civilians - 66 of whom were children. Their excuse was they mistakenly identified an A300 Airbus for a fighter plane.

This situation will be no different. The US will either cop a flogging or they will be held responsible / questioned about taking measures equally as disturbing as the enemy they are trying to defeat.

This type of conflict is pretty much unwinnable for the USA - and Iran knows this.

[MFKS]

Iran aren't scared of the USA on home soil.

Until Saddam Hussein helped them the US haven't really managed to put up much resistance against the Iranians.
The 1979 Iran Hostage crisis saw the US cop a flogging.
Then in 1988 the US shot down a passenger jet killing 292 civilians - 66 of whom were children. Their excuse was they mistakenly identified an A300 Airbus for a fighter plane.

This situation will be no different. The US will either cop a flogging or they will be held responsible / questioned about taking measures equally as disturbing as the enemy they are trying to defeat.

This type of conflict is pretty much unwinnable for the USA - and Iran knows this.

The Yanks ain't after wins in wars though

Draws are what they are after Ie Vietnam Iraq Afghanistan etc

The longer a battle can be maintained the better

That way all the industrial military complex get paid and the tax payers are fleeced

[Jetmaster]

Hopefully Bahrain and Iraq put paid to any chance the Socceroos could go there in the next WC quals.

[MFKS]

Hopefully Bahrain and Iraq put paid to any chance the Socceroos could go there in the next WC quals.

I doubt we get a game there anyway

We are a bunch of pussies when it comes to playing Sport in risky locations

[Aegon]

I doubt we get a game there anyway

We are a bunch of pussies when it comes to playing Sport in risky locations

Why is that being a pussy? Seems common sense as they would be considered as a higher priority target for these groups who want to maximise publicity.

[MFKS]

Why is that being a pussy? Seems common sense as they would be considered as a higher priority target for these groups who want to maximise publicity.

Australia still ain't played a Test Match in Pakistan in over 20 years

That how much of a bunch of soft ****s we are

[Aegon]

Australia still ain't played a Test Match in Pakistan in over 20 years

That how much of a bunch of soft ****s we are

Tell that to the Sri Lankan's.

[Aegon]

Reconsider your need to travel to Pakistan due to the security situation and high threat of terrorist attack, kidnapping and violence.
Higher levels apply in some parts of the country.
Do not travel to Balochistan, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (excluding Chitral district) and border areas with Afghanistan and India (excluding Lahore, Wagah, Kasur, Narowal and Sialkot).
If you do travel, get professional security advice. Your travel insurance policy might be void. The Australian Government may not be able to help you.

I see what you mean. Complete soft ****s....... :wanker:

[MFKS]

Reconsider your need to travel to Pakistan due to the security situation and high threat of terrorist attack, kidnapping and violence.
Higher levels apply in some parts of the country.
Do not travel to Balochistan, Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa (excluding Chitral district) and border areas with Afghanistan and India (excluding Lahore, Wagah, Kasur, Narowal and Sialkot).
If you do travel, get professional security advice. Your travel insurance policy might be void. The Australian Government may not be able to help you.

I see what you mean. Complete soft ****s....... :wanker:

UK regularly has more terror attacks

Yet we don't bat an eyelid about touring there

[Aegon]

Terrorist incidents by country in 2019
Country Number of
incidents Deaths Injuries
Afghanistan 966 465 702
Nigeria 484 1,805 1,031
Pakistan 276 640 400
Syria 243 2,026 1,303
Yemen 226 762 722
Egypt 224 877 626
Libya 190 289 171
Turkey 181 222 328
Thailand 179 72 270
Republic of the Congo 143 596 193
Mali 141 361 347
United Kingdom 122 42 301

Lets not let the truth get in the way of uneducated opinion though.

[StannyCFCJET]

Terrorist incidents by country in 2019
Country Number of
incidents Deaths Injuries
Afghanistan 966 465 702
Nigeria 484 1,805 1,031
Pakistan 276 640 400
Syria 243 2,026 1,303
Yemen 226 762 722
Egypt 224 877 626
Libya 190 289 171
Turkey 181 222 328
Thailand 179 72 270
Republic of the Congo 143 596 193
Mali 141 361 347
United Kingdom 122 42 301

Lets not let the truth get in the way of uneducated opinion though.

Uneducated opinions is all he has

[MFKS]

Terrorist incidents by country in 2019
Country Number of
incidents Deaths Injuries
Afghanistan 966 465 702
Nigeria 484 1,805 1,031
Pakistan 276 640 400
Syria 243 2,026 1,303
Yemen 226 762 722
Egypt 224 877 626
Libya 190 289 171
Turkey 181 222 328
Thailand 179 72 270
Republic of the Congo 143 596 193
Mali 141 361 347
United Kingdom 122 42 301

Lets not let the truth get in the way of uneducated opinion though.

Statistics mean **** all

Those stats show Thailand with 179 incidents
Yet I see no sign of these issues you speak of in LoS
Because the issues you speak of are local issues of domestic problems on the border between Thailand and Malaysia and foreigners ain't the target

Other countries have toured Pakistan yet our weak cricketers haven't

[Couscous]

Iran aren't scared of the USA on home soil.

Until Saddam Hussein helped them the US haven't really managed to put up much resistance against the Iranians.
The 1979 Iran Hostage crisis saw the US cop a flogging.
Then in 1988 the US shot down a passenger jet killing 292 civilians - 66 of whom were children. Their excuse was they mistakenly identified an A300 Airbus for a fighter plane.

This situation will be no different. The US will either cop a flogging or they will be held responsible / questioned about taking measures equally as disturbing as the enemy they are trying to defeat.

This type of conflict is pretty much unwinnable for the USA - and Iran knows this.

This was weirdly prescient.

[Jetmaster]

Having followed through with my new years resolution to abandon reading ABC news it was interesting to come across this article on Sky and notice the change...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/feral-left-blame-morrison-for-industrial-revolution

[Bon]

Having followed through with my new years resolution to abandon reading ABC news it was interesting to come across this article on Sky and notice the change...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/feral-left-blame-morrison-for-industrial-revolution

Why was that your new years resolution? (getting in before The Membah congratulates you for not being a "leftie snowflake" or something like that)

[Jetmaster]

Simple, I don't like ABC news.

[MFKS]

Why was that your new years resolution? (getting in before The Membah congratulates you for not being a "leftie snowflake" or something like that)

The ABC is so far left it not funny

Problem is they don't see it and deny they are


Fox is at least consistent in it admits being right leaning

Q&A once upon a time was decent to watch. Now it just hand selected propoganda preachers
High time ScoMo privatised it

[MFKS]

Having followed through with my new years resolution to abandon reading ABC news it was interesting to come across this article on Sky and notice the change...

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/feral-left-blame-morrison-for-industrial-revolution

The left live in their own little bubble

That why they can not accept
Trump
ScoMo
Brexit

The rest of the world doesn't believe their BS dogma because they don't focus on feelings but facts

[Macca]

The left live in their own little bubble

That why they can not accept
Trump
ScoMo
Brexit

The rest of the world doesn't believe their BS dogma because they don't focus on feelings but facts

1666

[Jetmaster]

The left live in their own little bubble

That why they can not accept
Trump
ScoMo
Brexit

The rest of the world doesn't believe their BS dogma because they don't focus on feelings but facts

This is what bugs me personally....

Morrison, Trump, Boris and Brexit were all voted in by democratic elections despite the negative hysteria generated in some areas of media. But the vocal minority cannot accept the umpires decision and say so with this "not my president" type of rant.

Many didn't want same sex marriage but it was voted democratically and you hear very little about it now - it was accepted.

[MFKS]

This is what bugs me personally....

Morrison, Trump, Boris and Brexit were all voted in by democratic elections despite the negative hysteria generated in some areas of media. But the vocal minority cannot accept the umpires decision and say so with this "not my president" type of rant.

Many didn't want same sex marriage but it was voted democratically and you hear very little about it now - it was accepted.

Why??

The left's position is the position of those who resort to feelings an emotion rather than logic

Ie the decisions of women and children

You go have a look at the left in all their glory

Most of them are cat loving females and beta males and they have little idea abput the realities of the world

There ain't a hell of a lot of intelligence in their arguments either

The best thing that could happen going forward is Bernie or Warren get the DNC nomination so they can be slaughtered again for playing identity politics

[The Dunster]

Right Wing logic in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr2bSL5VQgM

[Frodo]

This is what bugs me personally....

Morrison, Trump, Boris and Brexit were all voted in by democratic elections despite the negative hysteria generated in some areas of media. But the vocal minority cannot accept the umpires decision and say so with this "not my president" type of rant.

Many didn't want same sex marriage but it was voted democratically and you hear very little about it now - it was accepted.

So this is extremely simple to explain to you. Do you remember how quiet the right were when Obama was elected?

Ok, I win. Go find some other bullshit to peddle.

[MFKS]

So this is extremely simple to explain to you. Do you remember how quiet the right were when Obama was elected?

Ok, I win. Go find some other bullshit to peddle.

Generally speaking the right didn't give a ****

The real far right may have been pissed but the rank n file right just didn't give a ****

Their main gripe with him is that he was incompetent at his job

[Frodo]

Generally speaking the right didn't give a ****

The real far right may have been pissed but the rank n file right just didn't give a ****

Their main gripe with him is that he was incompetent at his job

Absolute bollocks and you know it. There's no difference, just the shoe is on the other foot and you don't like it.

Now, in your reality I agree that I'm probably wrong. But in the real world you would be splitting hairs to see any difference between the shit happening now and back then. Maybe politics has become a bit more volatile and social media has taken on a new level within the spread of political news/misinformation, but it's still the same shit that the right did then.

Heck, Trump likely won as a direct result of outrage from the right over a black man being in office. The racist, bigoted idiots all made sure they'd vote next election to keep any chance of that happening again. Add them in to the mix and all of a sudden the right didn't need to compete on the same issues as the left. Put the shiny orange yelly man on TV and they already picked up a huge amount of extra voters.

Trump is now starting this "war" as well as promoting second amendment rallies around the country to work his backup voters into an outrage again. You don't win the US presidential vote by being the most popular (remember that Trump wasn't the democratically elected candidate, he won on their weird electorate system of certain states having more say than others), you just need to win a few key states.

[MFKS]

Absolute bollocks and you know it. There's no difference, just the shoe is on the other foot and you don't like it.

Now, in your reality I agree that I'm probably wrong. But in the real world you would be splitting hairs to see any difference between the shit happening now and back then. Maybe politics has become a bit more volatile and social media has taken on a new level within the spread of political news/misinformation, but it's still the same shit that the right did then.

Heck, Trump likely won as a direct result of outrage from the right over a black man being in office. The racist, bigoted idiots all made sure they'd vote next election to keep any chance of that happening again. Add them in to the mix and all of a sudden the right didn't need to compete on the same issues as the left. Put the shiny orange yelly man on TV and they already picked up a huge amount of extra voters.

Trump is now starting this "war" as well as promoting second amendment rallies around the country to work his backup voters into an outrage again. You don't win the US presidential vote by being the most popular (remember that Trump wasn't the democratically elected candidate, he won on their weird electorate system of certain states having more say than others), you just need to win a few key states.

**** me

Trump won because the Electoral college actually represents all of the country
It doesn't just allow New York and California to dictate to the rest of the country who is running the country

Trump won because he was the best candidate put up.

FFS the left ran a candidate who let a US embassy get attacked and did nothing about it and then when the Ambassador got killed lied about their role


If you think the right gave anywhere near as much of a **** that Obama was President than the left have with their Trump Derangement Syndrome you been smoking some good shit

As for your claim that Trump got elected based on racist bigoted idiots. FMD You do realise these so called racist bigoted idiots could have voted Obama out in 2012 but reelected him?? Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative though

Trump run his campaign based on the only real identity politics that should matter being for all things American unlike the Left who ran the campaign on race and gender

Middle America embraced MAGA and rejected the race baiting policies of the Democrats

As for your claim that Trump is starting a war. Where?? He wiped a terrorist out. Nothing happened

But don't let that negate the reality that the lefty media and leftist politicians are speaking highly about Solemani like he is some type of hero when he been on a Terrorist list for nearly 20 years

Left just have no touch with reality

[Frodo]

**** me

Trump won because the Electoral college actually represents all of the country
It doesn't just allow New York and California to dictate to the rest of the country who is running the country

Trump won because he was the best candidate put up.

FFS the left ran a candidate who let a US embassy get attacked and did nothing about it and then when the Ambassador got killed lied about their role


If you think the right gave anywhere near as much of a **** that Obama was President than the left have with their Trump Derangement Syndrome you been smoking some good shit

As for your claim that Trump got elected based on racist bigoted idiots. FMD You do realise these so called racist bigoted idiots could have voted Obama out in 2012 but reelected him?? Don't let facts get in the way of your narrative though

Trump run his campaign based on the only real identity politics that should matter being for all things American unlike the Left who ran the campaign on race and gender

Middle America embraced MAGA and rejected the race baiting policies of the Democrats

As for your claim that Trump is starting a war. Where?? He wiped a terrorist out. Nothing happened

But don't let that negate the reality that the lefty media and leftist politicians are speaking highly about Solemani like he is some type of hero when he been on a Terrorist list for nearly 20 years

Left just have no touch with reality

Trump didn't get as many votes as Hilary, in fact he got 2.87 million less votes than her. So, in a true democracy, she would have won the election. The US is not a democratic nation.

[MFKS]

Trump didn't get as many votes as Hilary, in fact he got 2.87 million less votes than her. So, in a true democracy, she would have won the election. The US is not a democratic nation.

Still clinging to that BS excuse??

Rules were written down before the game was played

Idea was to win more Electoral College Votes

Reason Killary lost is because she wasn't good enough to win

Trump done the job


Electoral College ensures that individuals elected to the presidency don’t only have the support of the population-heavy coasts, but broad support throughout the entire country. The function of the Electoral College is to respect and represent the states as sovereign entities within our federal system.

If you look at that map Trump won nearly 3/4 of the country's approval when you look at it state by state

So he done the job required

As for America being a true democracy
It has never been one so I don't know why you bring that up

[Frodo]

Still clinging to that BS excuse??

Rules were written down before the game was played

Idea was to win more Electoral College Votes

Reason Killary lost is because she wasn't good enough to win

Trump done the job



If you look at that map Trump won nearly 3/4 of the country's approval when you look at it state by state

So he done the job required

As for America being a true democracy
It has never been one so I don't know why you bring that up

The electoral college by definition is not democracy. It's basically weighted voting. i.e. one person's vote is worth more than another's.

The other countries with electoral college systems are Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu...

The US is a backwards country designed by and for idiots. And yes, I know we don't have a true democracy here in Aus, but we are a million times closer than that dodgy place.

[Captain Obvious]

In the year two thousand and sixteen Julia Gillard was elected Prime Minister of Australia despite losing the popular vote. Julia Gillard and Donald Trump both have orange hair.

I know we don't have a true democracy here in Aus, but we are a million times closer than that dodgy place.

[MFKS]

The electoral college by definition is not democracy. It's basically weighted voting. i.e. one person's vote is worth more than another's.

The other countries with electoral college systems are Burundi, Estonia, Kazakhstan, Madagascar, Myanmar, Pakistan, Trinidad and Tobago and Vanuatu...

The US is a backwards country designed by and for idiots. And yes, I know we don't have a true democracy here in Aus, but we are a million times closer than that dodgy place.

FFS stay off the Kool Aid you are on

I ain't the one claiming it is a perfect democracy
You did and you now backed down from that to dribble some other crap

So one person's vote is worth more than someone else's in USA.

You do realise in Newy where every dumb **** votes in the ALP that your vote is more or less useless regardless of who you wish to vote for ??

Because some other voters in Oz will decide the Marginal seats who will decide who wins an election. So why you not railing hard against this??

Also as for Oz we have a Democracy that great that we have to vote for one candidate in the local area who has **** all influence and we also have to use preferential voting system which works nothing like your Utopian form.of democracy either

Also we do not get to vote for Head of State / Leader of the country and ****wits in Canberra decide that with party room coups

Yep we got great democracy

As for the USA being a backwards country. They the powerhouse nation on top of civilisation at the moment. They doing such a poor job that ****s are envious of their freedoms and are prepared to do anything to get there. Last I looked there ain't a pile of refugees looking to leave there. It a one way road there

[Frodo]

FFS stay off the Kool Aid you are on

I ain't the one claiming it is a perfect democracy
You did and you now backed down from that to dribble some other crap

So one person's vote is worth more than someone else's in USA.

You do realise in Newy where every dumb **** votes in the ALP that your vote is more or less useless regardless of who you wish to vote for ??

Because some other voters in Oz will decide the Marginal seats who will decide who wins an election. So why you not railing hard against this??

Also as for Oz we have a Democracy that great that we have to vote for one candidate in the local area who has **** all influence and we also have to use preferential voting system which works nothing like your Utopian form.of democracy either

Also we do not get to vote for Head of State / Leader of the country and ****wits in Canberra decide that with party room coups

Yep we got great democracy

As for the USA being a backwards country. They the powerhouse nation on top of civilisation at the moment. They doing such a poor job that ****s are envious of their freedoms and are prepared to do anything to get there. Last I looked there ain't a pile of refugees looking to leave there. It a one way road there



The USA is no longer the only superpower. Europe doesn't follow them, and they have the bigger combined military if push comes to shove. You watch how quickly Russia jumps back into bed with Europe if we go to world war. All sanctions and stuff removed and they get to flaunt their wealth freely. Plus after the US loses they'll go take Alaska back and mine it for everything hidden underneath, just like they are doing in the north of their own country.

If China and India combined, they would have every other neighbouring military on side out of fear. And that would be more than enough to take on the yanks.

The US no longer dictate any global policy, they have little power over the UN, and they are the laughing stock of the free world. Stop swallowing all the deep fried lies Fox and Friends and Hollywood are offering you. That place is done for.


Even our government has moved towards backing China over the US. And we are pretty dumb, so if we already gotten the memo it's common knowledge.

[Couscous]

Generally speaking the right didn't give a ****

Hahahahahahahahaha.

[MFKS]

The USA is no longer the only superpower. Europe doesn't follow them, and they have the bigger combined military if push comes to shove. You watch how quickly Russia jumps back into bed with Europe if we go to world war. All sanctions and stuff removed and they get to flaunt their wealth freely. Plus after the US loses they'll go take Alaska back and mine it for everything hidden underneath, just like they are doing in the north of their own country.

If China and India combined, they would have every other neighbouring military on side out of fear. And that would be more than enough to take on the yanks.

The US no longer dictate any global policy, they have little power over the UN, and they are the laughing stock of the free world. Stop swallowing all the deep fried lies Fox and Friends and Hollywood are offering you. That place is done for.


Even our government has moved towards backing China over the US. And we are pretty dumb, so if we already gotten the memo it's common knowledge.

Keep deluding yourself

India got nothing

China are less of a threat military than financially

Russia will do whatever the **** Russia wants

As for Europe
The ****s are still pissed the Poms left. Don't expect the EU to keep surviving because I backing there be more and more defections in the next 20 years

EU and the Globalist elite fail to recognise soverignity and nationalism as relevant issues. Already bit them in the arse with Brexit


Yanks are still top dog and they will be for a while yet

[Frodo]

Keep deluding yourself

India got nothing

China are less of a threat military than financially

Russia will do whatever the **** Russia wants

As for Europe
The ****s are still pissed the Poms left. Don't expect the EU to keep surviving because I backing there be more and more defections in the next 20 years

EU and the Globalist elite fail to recognise soverignity and nationalism as relevant issues. Already bit them in the arse with Brexit


Yanks are still top dog and they will be for a while yet

All I can hear is 'gargling noises' and the odd slurp. I can even smell the Cheetos and fake tan from where I am, lol.

[MFKS]

All I can hear is 'gargling noises' and the odd slurp. I can even smell the Cheetos and fake tan from where I am, lol.

You just keep deluding yourself why the leftists keep losing

And blame it all on Everything other than the reality


Their communist liberal intersectional BS agenda keeps being rejected as people think it is shit

[Frodo]

You just keep deluding yourself why the leftists keep losing

And blame it all on Everything other than the reality


Their communist liberal intersectional BS agenda keeps being rejected as people think it is shit

Stop acting like anyone believes the crap you keep telling yourself and that the mighty right, who scraped in by the skin of their teeth everywhere bar the UK are actually as all powerful and revered as you seem to think they are.

[MFKS]

Stop acting like anyone believes the crap you keep telling yourself and that the mighty right, who scraped in by the skin of their teeth everywhere bar the UK are actually as all powerful and revered as you seem to think they are.

Skin of teeth??

Trump won 304 to 227
ScoMo increased his majority

It is a trend everywhere

The deluded globalist communist left are being rejected everywhere

[Skirt Boy]

Skin of teeth??

Trump won 304 to 227
ScoMo increased his majority

It is a trend everywhere

The deluded globalist communist left are being rejected everywhere

Really?

Last midterms in the US left leaning Democrats in the US gained ascendency in Congress.

In Thuringia before Christmas. The CDU vote collapsed and Die Linke won the election. This is the successor party of the SED who once ruled East Germany as a dictatorship.

Macron is facing daily protests for his removal

Virtually everything about Scotty from Marketing is negative.

[MFKS]

Really?

Last midterms in the US left leaning Democrats in the US gained ascendency in Congress.

In Thuringia before Christmas. The CDU vote collapsed and Die Linke won the election. This is the successor party of the SED who once ruled East Germany as a dictatorship.

Macron is facing daily protests for his removal

Virtually everything about Scotty from Marketing is negative.

Yeah they let in the likes of AOC Omar and Tlaib

Complete oxygen thieves who are going to get booted out after their next election

Matter of fact they doing such a great job that they are going to see Trumps margin go up next year and it will be down to these unpatriotic socialist nutters


As for referencing Germans those guys are afraid of anything Nationalistic since the 1940s so they pretty much bordering on communists socialists and using the EU as their vehicle to conquer Europe

As for the French who ****ing cares ??

[Frodo]

Matter of fact they doing such a great job that they are going to see Trumps margin go up next year and it will be down to these unpatriotic socialist nutters

Unpatriotic..

A) you aren't an American. Yes, you say dumb shit and think the world revolves around you. But you aren't actually a yank.

B) You are mistaking Patriotism for Nationalism. Google it and use the correct term for future reference.

[Jetmaster]

This is so fun.

A couple of the posts above have proven my point.

Job done.

[Frodo]

This is so fun.

A couple of the posts above have proven my point.

Job done.

Do they? Cause all I've seen so far is the Membah not being able to take any criticism to his wonderful motherland of America... And me baiting him for lulz.

I did question the validity of the electoral college, which I think is a valid argument to make. No other first world nation uses such an easily manipulated system (that goes for whoever is in power). Our democracy is good enough for voting a party into power. The whole changing of PM is another issue altogether, I don't know how we sort that one.

[MFKS]

Do they? Cause all I've seen so far is the Membah not being able to take any criticism to his wonderful motherland of America... And me baiting him for lulz.

I did question the validity of the electoral college, which I think is a valid argument to make. No other first world nation uses such an easily manipulated system (that goes for whoever is in power). Our democracy is good enough for voting a party into power. The whole changing of PM is another issue altogether, I don't know how we sort that one.

Criticism??

You are the one moaning that people voted in ways you don't agree with

They voted
Trump
Brexit
ScoMo


All we are seeing is excuses and tears from you and the Left for all this

You are actually proving Jetmasters point

[MFKS]

Unpatriotic..

A) you aren't an American. Yes, you say dumb shit and think the world revolves around you. But you aren't actually a yank.

B) You are mistaking Patriotism for Nationalism. Google it and use the correct term for future reference.

Where the **** did I say I was a Yank??

I said the Squad nutters are unpatriotic

That is a fair statement to make that they are not patriotic to USA matter of fact you could argue that the likes of Omar and Tlaib ain't far from treasonous and AOC is just a communist socialist deluded nutter who should have stuck to bar tending

As for Nationalism v Patriotism I was referring to Nationalism
I wouldn't describe 1930s and 40s Germany was them over dosing on patriotism

[Frodo]

Criticism??

You are the one moaning that people voted in ways you don't agree with

They voted
Trump
Brexit
ScoMo


All we are seeing is excuses and tears from you and the Left for all this

You are actually proving Jetmasters point

Am I? Cause I haven't mentioned Scomo or Brexit for a start. I also haven't shed any tears about ol Trumpy boy. He doesn't affect me very much, my work deals with China but hasn't been affected by his little tariffs at all. I just enjoy stirring you up on the matter.

You are the one getting hot under the collar when I attack the US of A. Hence my comments about you being a surrogate Yankee doodle. (I feel like this is funnier in my head than others will take it, but I'll stand by my terrible quips any day of the week.)

Also, according to your logic AOC and her mates were voted in by the American people. So crying over them would be fairly hypocritical of you wouldn't it fine member? Jetmaster wouldn't appreciate you ruining his statement about the left being the only ones who complain about election results.

[Aegon]

There is very little worse than reading/hearing conversations from people entrenched in the left and right of politics.
Both sides end up sounding like idiots and people with no political leanings realise why they hate voting as neither side really stand for anything except self interest.

I look forward to voting for independents in the house and the senate who can then just f*** with whoever is in power.

Australia’s fault for making me vote.

[Aegon]

Also, are the liberals the most ironically named political party going around or is it the liberal democrat religious nutters?

[finzee]

There is very little worse than reading/hearing conversations from people entrenched in the left and right of politics.
Both sides end up sounding like idiots and people with no political leanings realise why they hate voting as neither side really stand for anything except self interest.

I look forward to voting for independents in the house and the senate who can then just f*** with whoever is in power.

Australia’s fault for making me vote.


Also, are the liberals the most ironically named political party going around or is it the liberal democrat religious nutters?

So you spout for being anti major politics but name the Liberals and religious as nutters. Think your left looney has leaked. So what if someone is religious? Others worship the colander, beer, drugs, kfc, Buddha but no abuse there? Think you need to drop the selective bigotry. Maybe fight crime, its a real scourge. Plus dont jump in bed with the Greens, they hate the workers but dont tell Labor they haven't joined the dots yet. Independent voting I agree with but eventually preferences must go to the bigs.

Each to their own without the infantile hysteria

[Frodo]

So you spout for being anti major politics but name the Liberals and religious as nutters. Think your left looney has leaked. So what if someone is religious? Others worship the colander, beer, drugs, kfc, Buddha but no abuse there? Think you need to drop the selective bigotry. Maybe fight crime, its a real scourge. Plus dont jump in bed with the Greens, they hate the workers but dont tell Labor they haven't joined the dots yet. Independent voting I agree with but eventually preferences must go to the bigs.

Each to their own without the infantile hysteria

#Triggered.

Also, I think you read more into those points than what was intended. My understanding of his points were.

- people who care enough about politics to pick a side sound like idiots to those in the centre. (Not wrong really, look at the crap we talk in here)
- The Liberals aren't very "liberal" by definition. Which is true when you look at the word only. It's also a very nothing statement. Liberalism, conservative, socialist are all just insults now anyway. Today is so about the lean of your politics. Which way do you lean, and how far do you lean.

Can't help you with the religious stuff. If the term religious nutter offends you, so be it. He did say that one.

[Aegon]

#Triggered.

Also, I think you read more into those points than what was intended. My understanding of his points were.

- people who care enough about politics to pick a side sound like idiots to those in the centre. (Not wrong really, look at the crap we talk in here)
- The Liberals aren't very "liberal" by definition. Which is true when you look at the word only. It's also a very nothing statement. Liberalism, conservative, socialist are all just insults now anyway. Today is so about the lean of your politics. Which way do you lean, and how far do you lean.

Can't help you with the religious stuff. If the term religious nutter offends you, so be it. He did say that one.

I was actually referring to the specific party that’s called something like the liberal
Democrats?

There was some sort of outrage in one of the previous elections that they were first on the ballot
Paper and would receive default votes.

And calling me a leftist? Who cares. I have some leftist views and some right sided views just depends on the subject.

[The Dunster]

Marketing is what gets politicians elected not their policies. It doesn't matter what the policy is as long as you can market it effectively.

In Australia least the two major parties are essentially holding the same ideology but with different marketing strategies.

It's not much different in the USA or indeed any other developed western nation.

[Aegon]

So you spout for being anti major politics but name the Liberals and religious as nutters. Think your left looney has leaked. So what if someone is religious? Others worship the colander, beer, drugs, kfc, Buddha but no abuse there? Think you need to drop the selective bigotry. Maybe fight crime, its a real scourge. Plus dont jump in bed with the Greens, they hate the workers but dont tell Labor they haven't joined the dots yet. Independent voting I agree with but eventually preferences must go to the bigs.

Each to their own without the infantile hysteria

I admit to sharing some of the greens views when it comes to climate change and animal welfare. However their policies as a whole would destroy the Australia that I love. I ensure every vote i submit has the greens last in preferences. I have never voted for them or for labour in my life.

I used to vote for Little Johnny every election but I haven’t voted liberal since Kevin07 won.

At the end of the day every major party is a shell of what they used to stand for. Even labour are distancing themselves as much as possible from the union nutters.

I don’t think it makes a difference where I vote anymore so I just happily vote for fringe cases that will make it difficult for whoever wins.

I think I voted for the Derryn Hinch party or something last time ��*♂️

[Aegon]

#Triggered.

Also, I think you read more into those points than what was intended. My understanding of his points were.

- people who care enough about politics to pick a side sound like idiots to those in the centre. (Not wrong really, look at the crap we talk in here)
- The Liberals aren't very "liberal" by definition. Which is true when you look at the word only. It's also a very nothing statement. Liberalism, conservative, socialist are all just insults now anyway. Today is so about the lean of your politics. Which way do you lean, and how far do you lean.

Can't help you with the religious stuff. If the term religious nutter offends you, so be it. He did say that one.

You were spot on in your analysis btw.

[MFKS]

I admit to sharing some of the greens views when it comes to climate change and animal welfare.

If you gonna lead with this one then lay your cards on the table So we know exactly which of their extremist views you support

[Aegon]

If you gonna lead with this one then lay your cards on the table So we know exactly which of their extremist views you support

Easy answer- Climate change is real. The temperature statistics do not lie.

Whether it is man made or not? I’m still yet to see anything that proves it definitively.

What is beyond question is that we should make our best effort at reducing our long term impact and making it worse.

If that means finding alternate power solutions then why the F not?

Where I completely deviate from the greenies though is that I think nuclear power should be utilised in Aus, especially since we have so much of the fuel needed for it locally.

With animal welfare - I despise horse and dog racing. I’m realistic enough to know that banning it isn’t achievable due to $$$.
However there should be tighter regulations in place that don’t allow over-breeding, indiscriminate killing of animals & an obligation to seek re-homing, re-purposing, etc post racing life.

[MFKS]

Easy answer- Climate change is real. The temperature statistics do not lie.

Whether it is man made or not? I’m still yet to see anything that proves it definitively.

What is beyond question is that we should make our best effort at reducing our long term impact and making it worse.

If that means finding alternate power solutions then why the F not?

Where I completely deviate from the greenies though is that I think nuclear power should be utilised in Aus, especially since we have so much of the fuel needed for it locally.

With animal welfare - I despise horse and dog racing. I’m realistic enough to know that banning it isn’t achievable due to $$$.
However there should be tighter regulations in place that don’t allow over-breeding, indiscriminate killing of animals & an obligation to seek re-homing, re-purposing, etc post racing life.

Temperature statistics??

Based on what 100 years or so of stats from the weather bureau when then planet been in existence for only about 6000 years or so

That a pretty small sample so the jury is really still out

I don't think.it exists

It is nothing but a financial racket so ****s get paid
Scientists are getting paid to say it exists
Scientists are getting paid to say it don't exist
You got nutcases like AOC saying the planet will end in 12 years terrifying a bunch of uneducated people who forget this scan been played 2 to 3 times already in the last 30 years

Where they will succeed in the future with this BS hysteria is they will use the environment as an excuse to get a taxation passed on the community and it will be the useful idiots in supporting climate change that will be thinking it is a great idea

In 30 years time after this nothing will have improved in the environment and that tax will still exist

As for animal welfare before we get into that subject. What is your position on abortion are you yeah or nay on that ??

[Macca]

planet been in existence for only about 6000 years or so


How you can want to debate scientific matters while holding that view is mystifying.

[Jetmaster]

Have lived through acid rain, the new ice age, hole in the ozone, global warming and now climate change.

And whatever happened to El Nino?

http://www.bom.gov.au/climate/updates/articles/a008-el-nino-and-australia.shtml

[The Dunster]

How you can want to debate scientific matters while holding that view is mystifying.

When James Ussher made the 6000 year calculation it was considered scientific and to be very important / scholarly work. Isaac Newton made an estimate as well very close to that of Ussher

In 400 years time many of the so called scientific facts we take for granted will be seen to be just as ridiculous - assuming we haven't become extinct by then.

[Bon]

Temperature statistics??

Based on what 100 years or so of stats from the weather bureau when then planet been in existence for only about 6000 years or so

That a pretty small sample so the jury is really still out

I don't think.it exists

It is nothing but a financial racket so ****s get paid
Scientists are getting paid to say it exists
Scientists are getting paid to say it don't exist
You got nutcases like AOC saying the planet will end in 12 years terrifying a bunch of uneducated people who forget this scan been played 2 to 3 times already in the last 30 years

Where they will succeed in the future with this BS hysteria is they will use the environment as an excuse to get a taxation passed on the community and it will be the useful idiots in supporting climate change that will be thinking it is a great idea

In 30 years time after this nothing will have improved in the environment and that tax will still exist

As for animal welfare before we get into that subject. What is your position on abortion are you yeah or nay on that ??

Oh man....
I.... I just can't... I don't know where to start on this..

[Macca]

When James Ussher made the 6000 year calculation it was considered scientific and to be very important / scholarly work. Isaac Newton made an estimate as well very close to that of Ussher

In 400 years time many of the so called scientific facts we take for granted will be seen to be just as ridiculous - assuming we haven't become extinct by then.

A valid point and almost certainly correct. But still doesn't justify clinging to disproven theories no matter how highly regarded they were at the time. All we can do is roll with the current accrued level of knowledge until it is inevitably built upon or disproved.

[MFKS]

How you can want to debate scientific matters while holding that view is mystifying.

If I believe that God created the world in 6 days then rested on the 7th and I going to tally up events in the book then it comes to about 6000 years give or take

[pv4]

https://i.imgur.com/oSIoN2e.jpg

[Bon]

https://i.imgur.com/oSIoN2e.jpg

:lulzturtle:

[The Dunster]

If I believe that God created the world in 6 days then rested on the 7th and I going to tally up events in the book then it comes to about 6000 years give or take

Is the bible referring to a day as 24 hours ? The time between sunrise and sunset ? Or some other variable ?

[Aegon]

Oh man....
I.... I just can't... I don't know where to start on this..

Exactly my original point. There is no arguing with anyone on the extremes of both sides of politics.

Regardless of how stupid they sound they’ll follow their mantra dogmatically. Facts are only facts when they support their agenda.

If I had said my exact same statement to someone on the extreme left I’d get shouted down for not agreeing that it’s all man made.

[PC14]

Exactly my original point. There is no arguing with anyone on the extremes of both sides of politics.

Regardless of how stupid they sound they’ll follow their mantra dogmatically. Facts are only facts when they support their agenda.

If I had said my exact same statement to someone on the extreme left I’d get shouted down for not agreeing that it’s all man made.

The centre of politics - where sensible debate can happen to encourage good government. Unfortunately, there is no longer sensible debate. More like arguing and arrogance from both "sides".

[MFKS]

Exactly my original point. There is no arguing with anyone on the extremes of both sides of politics.

Regardless of how stupid they sound they’ll follow their mantra dogmatically. Facts are only facts when they support their agenda.

If I had said my exact same statement to someone on the extreme left I’d get shouted down for not agreeing that it’s all man made.

People when voicing an opinion will resort to their beliefs

That ain't much of an observation

An avoidance of the issues raised be closer to the mark

[Frodo]

People when voicing an opinion will resort to their beliefs

That ain't much of an observation

An avoidance of the issues raised be closer to the mark

People should start resorting to facts, and actually fact check them first as well.

[goaliepersempre]

Trump Mania here in Switzerland at the WEF :popcorn: or US President Mania.. however which way you want to see it.

[Aegon]

People should start resorting to facts, and actually fact check them first as well.

Who needs facts when you can let the media, god, activist groups or social media decide for you.

[MFKS]

People should start resorting to facts, and actually fact check them first as well.

I am already resorting to facts

There is no proof that Climate Change actually exists

[boz-monaut]

and on that enlightened note - maybe this is relevant to people like the Member

https://www.theguardian.com/football/copa90/2020/jan/21/flat-earth-fc-ball-round-world-is-not

incidentally member, do you understand what an isotope is? do they teach that sort of science at Kincumber South High?

[Aegon]

I am already resorting to facts

There is no proof that Climate Change actually exists

Apart from....... the increase in temperatures globally over the last 100 years?

That’s pretty much the definition of the climate....... changing........

Or do we have to wait another 6000 years of our planet existing to get a 50% sample rate?

[Aegon]

and on that enlightened note - maybe this is relevant to people like the Member

https://www.theguardian.com/football/copa90/2020/jan/21/flat-earth-fc-ball-round-world-is-not

incidentally member, do you understand what an isotope is? do they teach that sort of science at Kincumber South High?

How does the club make money? Do they still attract fans to the stadium?

This just boggles my mind. To succeed they literally have to follow the ideals they despise so much?

[Frodo]

I am already resorting to facts

There is no proof that Climate Change actually exists

There is proof that climate change exists. Everyone agrees on that part, you obviously weren't listening.

Your actual argument is whether or not humans caused it.

No need to thank me. Just pay more attention please member.

[boz-monaut]

How does the club make money? Do they still attract fans to the stadium?

This just boggles my mind. To succeed they literally have to follow the ideals they despise so much?

read the article and it doesn't say much - the comments are gold though, as you'd expect

[MFKS]

Apart from....... the increase in temperatures globally over the last 100 years?

That’s pretty much the definition of the climate....... changing........

Or do we have to wait another 6000 years of our planet existing to get a 50% sample rate?

And how many of the last 6000 or so years have we been recording weather for ??
About 100 give or take a couple

An upward spike in this time is no proof that we are on a continual upward spike

What is to say the next 100 years won't see a downward spike??

What you are doing is cherry picking one statistic to further your argument yet the real8ty is there ain't concrete weather data going back 500 years to back up your claim

Also if Climate Change was real explain Greta??

Because if the leftists greenies had any actual real evidence they wouldn't be wheeling out some kid with autism who can't articulate much as soon as her handlers don't give her a script to read

[MFKS]

There is proof that climate change exists. Everyone agrees on that part, you obviously weren't listening.

Your actual argument is whether or not humans caused it.

No need to thank me. Just pay more attention please member.

Who is everyone??

Trump
Putin
Sco Mo

I cant be arsed looking for more but i pretty certain i could find plenty of other powerful.people who call this scam out for what it is

[Bremsstrahlung]

Just believe in climate change.
Non believers will be punished in a fiery earth.
If you believe, there is hope that you will not die a fiery death.

Remind you of anything?

Except like, there’s science to back this one up.

[finzee]

The whole debate is lost. It's Natural climate change vs human contributed CC. Naturally it happens, no debate.

Australia's contribution to CC is negligible. Sorry commie & Green goons, youre shot down there.

But theres an opportunity to create Green tech to influence the rest of the globe to adopt in due course. Sooner the better.

We cant shut down oil and coal this weekend. The consequences would be economic disaster, societal anarchy and the murder of Green voters. On second thoughts pull the plug.

[pv4]

I did like the theory that if you believe in human-contributed climate change and actively work to delay or prevent this, but in the end your belief was wrong, the worst thing you're doing is altering lifestyles that can again be changed and theoretically making the world a better place in the process, but for no real reason. If you don't believe and keep going as current, and you are wrong - you've actively helped kill the world. It's like when you bet against the Jerks, if they lose as predicted at least you have a form of win, but if they win you lose your money but they've won so you're happy. Working on the human-contributed climate change theory/belief is the lowest risk, highest gain path to take here - I haven't seen much to convince otherwise.

[Bon]

People should start resorting to facts, and actually fact check them first as well.

Who needs facts if you have faith???

[Bon]

I did like the theory that if you believe in human-contributed climate change and actively work to delay or prevent this, but in the end your belief was wrong, the worst thing you're doing is altering lifestyles that can again be changed and theoretically making the world a better place in the process, but for no real reason. If you don't believe and keep going as current, and you are wrong - you've actively helped kill the world. It's like when you bet against the Jerks, if they lose as predicted at least you have a form of win, but if they win you lose your money but they've won so you're happy. Working on the human-contributed climate change theory/belief is the lowest risk, highest gain path to take here - I haven't seen much to convince otherwise.

Absolutely this...
Except for when you put $100 on Perth to win... and we scrape out a draw..

[The Dunster]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/copa90/2020/jan/21/flat-earth-fc-ball-round-world-is-not

They'd still beat the Jets.

[MFKS]

I did like the theory that if you believe in human-contributed climate change and actively work to delay or prevent this, but in the end your belief was wrong, the worst thing you're doing is altering lifestyles that can again be changed and theoretically making the world a better place in the process, but for no real reason. If you don't believe and keep going as current, and you are wrong - you've actively helped kill the world. It's like when you bet against the Jerks, if they lose as predicted at least you have a form of win, but if they win you lose your money but they've won so you're happy. Working on the human-contributed climate change theory/belief is the lowest risk, highest gain path to take here - I haven't seen much to convince otherwise.

The old appeal to emotion ploy

Have you ever asked why these fraudsters offer these things up plus Greta and other irrelevant shit yet can't offer any concrete evidence ??

If it did exist it should be easy to provide some actual proof you know

[Skirt Boy]

I did like the theory that if you believe in human-contributed climate change and actively work to delay or prevent this, but in the end your belief was wrong, the worst thing you're doing is altering lifestyles that can again be changed and theoretically making the world a better place in the process, but for no real reason. If you don't believe and keep going as current, and you are wrong - you've actively helped kill the world. It's like when you bet against the Jerks, if they lose as predicted at least you have a form of win, but if they win you lose your money but they've won so you're happy. Working on the human-contributed climate change theory/belief is the lowest risk, highest gain path to take here - I haven't seen much to convince otherwise.

Bingo.

If climate change is a lie. It's just one big ****ing win anyway.

[The Dunster]

I did like the theory that if you believe in human-contributed climate change and actively work to delay or prevent this, but in the end your belief was wrong, the worst thing you're doing is altering lifestyles that can again be changed and theoretically making the world a better place in the process, but for no real reason. If you don't believe and keep going as current, and you are wrong - you've actively helped kill the world. It's like when you bet against the Jerks, if they lose as predicted at least you have a form of win, but if they win you lose your money but they've won so you're happy. Working on the human-contributed climate change theory/belief is the lowest risk, highest gain path to take here - I haven't seen much to convince otherwise.

Afghanistan have the lowest Carbon emissions per capita in the world. Are you sure that's what you want ?

or would you perhaps settle for a 15th of our current emissions per capita and be like Zimbabwe ?

EDIT: I should note that if you measure Carbon emissions as a function of GDP Afghanistan and Zimbabwe fails miserably in comparison to developed nations.

[Aegon]

Afghanistan have the lowest Carbon emissions per capita in the world. Are you sure that's what you want ?

or would you perhaps settle for a 15th of our current emissions per capita and be like Zimbabwe ?

EDIT: I should note that if you measure Carbon emissions as a function of GDP Afghanistan and Zimbabwe fails miserably in comparison to developed nations.

That’s a terrible analogy. Reducing carbon emissions does not automatically correlate to reducing GDP, quality of life, etc.

[The Dunster]

That’s a terrible analogy. Reducing carbon emissions does not automatically correlate to reducing GDP, quality of life, etc.

Did you read the 3rd line of my post as well ?

[pv4]

If it did exist it should be easy to provide some actual proof you know

It speaks volumes you of all people have written this

[The Dunster]

I've been reviewing my posts here over the past 5 years or so. I definitely have some anger issues.
I don't mean to come across as a dickhead - but geez some of my posts are downright horrible.

[Jetmaster]

Yes I'm a bit older but I clearly remember being in school in 1974 and being taught about climate change in social studies. We were reading and hearing about the onset of the next Ice Age and Halleys Comet smashing into Earth.

I do believe climate change is real but I also believe it is cyclical and mainly natural. I have just heard too many conflicting stories on the end of the world over the years to have any belief what we are fed by the media.

That is my opinion.

"Know For Yourself"

[boz-monaut]

so the fact we can without doubt tell that the carbon in the atmosphere comes from the burning of the fossil fuels we're digging up still doesn't change that? if you disagree then you explain it, please

why is it that older folks can't seem to appreciate this?

I'm mid 40s, so I am old enough to say I'm old

in my lifetime, 75% of anthropogenic carbon has been released

if we're talking old man anecdotes, I can't remember a single day over 40 degrees from my childhood, yet we seem to get about three to five a summer now

old man opinions are one thing, but you have to realise where they're influences come from - if it's from education and actual experts and study and understanding of science - but if it's from the a political bent then it needs interrogation

[Frodo]

I've been reviewing my posts here over the past 5 years or so. I definitely have some anger issues.
I don't mean to come across as a dickhead - but geez some of my posts are downright horrible.

It's very hard to convey a strong point via text and not come across as angry. Re-reading your own posts is a great way to learn this and use it when reading anyone else's posts (Not aimed at you directly Dunster, good for everyone to do IMO.). I do it and feel bad about the way things sound after i've read them a few days or weeks later even.

[MFKS]

It's very hard to convey a strong point via text and not come across as angry. Re-reading your own posts is a great way to learn this and use it when reading anyone else's posts (Not aimed at you directly Dunster, good for everyone to do IMO.). I do it and feel bad about the way things sound after i've read them a few days or weeks later even.

Should try my method and not give a ****

It a hell of a lot easier

[Frodo]

Should try my method and not give a ****

It a hell of a lot easier

You give plenty of ****s, hence why you continue to argue your point until the end, every time...

Don't act like the majority of us on here don't know your little game member. You love talking a big game, but you love the shit out of us and care what we think. You just don't want to admit it.

I mean, don't tell me that you don't have mad respect for Jeterpool and his stats. We live for that man to come in and drop his knowledge on us. And that's just one example.

[MFKS]

You give plenty of ****s, hence why you continue to argue your point until the end, every time...

Don't act like the majority of us on here don't know your little game member. You love talking a big game, but you love the shit out of us and care what we think. You just don't want to admit it.

I mean, don't tell me that you don't have mad respect for Jeterpool and his stats. We live for that man to come in and drop his knowledge on us. And that's just one example.

Don't think I miss you that much

Speaking of missing someone where is Plague

Anyone seen him in 2020??

[380]

He probs still o/seas in China contracting Corolla Flu and ironing out a few more details in regards to his offer to Marty to acquire a 20% stake in the Jets.

[The Dunster]

Plague hasn't posted here in over a month. I'm starting to get concerned. I hope he's ok.

[MFKS]

Plague hasn't posted here in over a month. I'm starting to get concerned. I hope he's ok.

Maybe he got Corona virus

[finzee]

Afghanistan have the lowest Carbon emissions per capita in the world. Are you sure that's what you want ?

or would you perhaps settle for a 15th of our current emissions per capita and be like Zimbabwe ?

EDIT: I should note that if you measure Carbon emissions asion of GDP Afghanistan and Zimbabwe fails miserably in comparison to developed nations.

And data manipulation can be used to create any outrage.

If low economic, low carbon emitters had the chance to develop industry they also smash out tons more Co2.

It still comes down to pure volume of output. Cut it back each year and Develop Green tech which is the main issue.

Massive opportunity to become a world leader if we can design a product that works.

[pv4]

Plague hasn't posted here in over a month. I'm starting to get concerned. I hope he's ok.

#prayforplaguesey

[Skirt Boy]

#prayforplaguesey

Nah **** the gypo.

[MFKS]

So the US Election is getting intriguing

Dems gonna either offer up a nut job communist in Bernie Sanders or an old guy who seems to have Alzheimer's or dementia or something like that in Joe Biden

Trump tearing them to pieces is gonna be fun to watch

[Skirt Boy]

So the US Election is getting intriguing

Dems gonna either offer up a nut job communist in Bernie Sanders

Communist?

Far from it. In Australia he would be about as far left as Penny Wong.

[The Dunster]

1930's fascist's are left wing in comparison to the right as it stands in the 21st Century.

[MFKS]

Communist?

Far from it. In Australia he would be about as far left as Penny Wong.

Bernie is a commy

The bloke had a honeymoon in the USSR and got kicked out of a socialist compound for being too lazy

Check his policies out

You would probably love them

[Skirt Boy]

Bernie is a commy

The bloke had a honeymoon in the USSR and got kicked out of a socialist compound for being too lazy

Check his policies out

You would probably love them

What's wrong with having a honeymoon in the USSR?

Communism aside the constituent countries of the USSR have a rich cultural heritage and some of the most famous people in the world. It also has destinations that rival if not exceed anything that France, Germany, UK ect put on.

The policies are no more controversial or left than anything that Hawke, Whitlam and Keating introduced. In Australia or Europe he would very much be in the centre on the political spectrum.

[Skirt Boy]

1930's fascist's are left wing in comparison to the right as it stands in the 21st Century.

That's actually not that far from the truth. Take the genocidal police state out of it. The NSDAP were very left. Especially in its early years before the SA was destroyed in the "Knight of the Long Knives" when most of the hard left of the party was eliminated.

[Frodo]

Bernie is a commy

The bloke had a honeymoon in the USSR and got kicked out of a socialist compound for being too lazy

Check his policies out

You would probably love them

You just called him a communist, you clearly need to read his policies. Cause either you have no idea what communism is, or you don't know who Bernie Sanders is and what his policies are? I'm gonna guess both considering the list of subjects in this thread alone that you clearly don't understand.

[MFKS]

You just called him a communist, you clearly need to read his policies. Cause either you have no idea what communism is, or you don't know who Bernie Sanders is and what his policies are? I'm gonna guess both considering the list of subjects in this thread alone that you clearly don't understand.

Free health care for all

Free education for all

There is 2

His plan to pay for it

Communism 101
Steal from one to give to another

[Frodo]

Free health care for all

Free education for all

There is 2

His plan to pay for it

Communism 101
Steal from one to give to another

You're thinking of Robin Hood.

Universal Healthcare would actually save the US money. What's communist about cutting spending?

Free Education has been around in Europe for years and their economies are booming. That's not communism either.

Yet again you type out plenty of words and they have little to no meaning.


Bloomberg just wasted USD $500 million on a very quick and very failed nomination bid. It didn't effect his wealth in the slightest. Bernie could "steal" half his $58.4 billion wealth and he wouldn't even notice. You can cry over the wealthy having to pay a fair share of tax till the cows come home. Until I get all the same tax breaks and bailouts that big business gets, I couldn't care less.

[MFKS]

You're thinking of Robin Hood.

Universal Healthcare would actually save the US money. What's communist about cutting spending?

Free Education has been around in Europe for years and their economies are booming. That's not communism either.

Yet again you type out plenty of words and they have little to no meaning.


Bloomberg just wasted USD $500 million on a very quick and very failed nomination bid. It didn't effect his wealth in the slightest. Bernie could "steal" half his $58.4 billion wealth and he wouldn't even notice. You can cry over the wealthy having to pay a fair share of tax till the cows come home. Until I get all the same tax breaks and bailouts that big business gets, I couldn't care less.

Universal Healthcare would not be cheaper. That just straight out n out bull shit to claim it be cheaper

It also wouldn't improve the quality either which is the best in the world


What are the waiting times like in Oz for treatment under the commy Medicare where the government roles out treatment how and when they like ??

Nothing like the USA where you want a procedure done it is getting down that day


European economies are booming??
That's funny

Since The poms left the EU the cluster **** that it is has been exposed for its faults
Right now the ****s are trying to work out where they getting the money from that is now void thanks to Brexit

Problem is that there whole ponzi scheme is potentially about to fall apart if they don't sort this shit out
Because if they don't get the money to keep all these ****s in it happy then there will be a few more Brexits

You only need a France Spain or Shitaly to start walking away and the Germans dream of conquering Europe is in tatters again

[Frodo]

A quick google would answer your medicare for all question. The current estimates for Healthcare in current form is $50 trillion over 10 years if you add up all the costs. Medicare for All is estimated at $32 trillion over the same period.

The private sector will take a huge cut to its profits, but because they currently overcharge so much for simple procedures, they'll be fine in the long run.

Plus Medicare for all would absolutely crush the pharmaceutical companies. The government would just bypass them and import things like Insulin if they don't bring the prices down to real world prices. (Just like the 1000s of people who currently drive into Canada to buy it for a fraction of the cost in the US.)

Realistic there's no way Medicare for All doesn't happen within the next 10 years. Now that the numbers are out there and people know how much they can save, even Republicans are going to have to let it happen soon.

[Skirt Boy]

Just leaving this here.

https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-debt-collectors-decide-who-gets-arrested-coffeyville-kansas/

[Frodo]

Just leaving this here.

https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-debt-collectors-decide-who-gets-arrested-coffeyville-kansas/

And the Member thinks that is great. He thinks that he'd have enough wealth to sit back and laugh at the people dragged into the system without choice.

People over there commit suicide because they don't want to burden their family with hospital bills when they die. It's terrifying.

The US is barely even a first world country nowadays. They have one of the highest poverty rates of any first world nation. The highest medical costs, the lowest life expectancy rates, education levels are some of the worst. They do have low unemployment rates but they've fudged that by offering disgustingly low minimum wages and the low income earners have to work 2-3 times as many hours in order to reach an actual living wage.

[The Dunster]

Free health care for all

Free education for all

There is 2

His plan to pay for it

Communism 101
Steal from one to give to another

The same way they bailed out the Banks and Investment houses. The government debits an own account and credits an exchange settlement account held with the FED.
The only limit or constraint is with real resource availability - money is never an issue.

[MFKS]

A quick google would answer your medicare for all question. The current estimates for Healthcare in current form is $50 trillion over 10 years if you add up all the costs. Medicare for All is estimated at $32 trillion over the same period.

The private sector will take a huge cut to its profits, but because they currently overcharge so much for simple procedures, they'll be fine in the long run.

Plus Medicare for all would absolutely crush the pharmaceutical companies. The government would just bypass them and import things like Insulin if they don't bring the prices down to real world prices. (Just like the 1000s of people who currently drive into Canada to buy it for a fraction of the cost in the US.)

Realistic there's no way Medicare for All doesn't happen within the next 10 years. Now that the numbers are out there and people know how much they can save, even Republicans are going to have to let it happen soon.

That is ****ing hilarious

In the real world whenever a government gets involved in running industries costs go up because governments bring bureaucracy in and nothing gets done without increased costs

You are trying to now claim that this won't happen here

FMD


As for the current health spend that is reasonably able to be estimated

That estimate of Bernies is just that a ****ing guess

Because no one knows how much it will cost

You open up Medicare for all and there be much more costs than can ever be estimated just like every other government policy or initiative that comes in well over budget

The fact that Bernie doesn't really know the answered on it says plenty

[MFKS]

And the Member thinks that is great. He thinks that he'd have enough wealth to sit back and laugh at the people dragged into the system without choice.

People over there commit suicide because they don't want to burden their family with hospital bills when they die. It's terrifying.

The US is barely even a first world country nowadays. They have one of the highest poverty rates of any first world nation. The highest medical costs, the lowest life expectancy rates, education levels are some of the worst. They do have low unemployment rates but they've fudged that by offering disgustingly low minimum wages and the low income earners have to work 2-3 times as many hours in order to reach an actual living wage.

Get a job pay your own way in life

The government is not in place to provide a welfare state for those who don't take care of their own shit

[MFKS]

Just leaving this here.

https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-debt-collectors-decide-who-gets-arrested-coffeyville-kansas/

I am not surprised that a leftist resorts to call to emotion for aid their point


I don't believe in your Marxist belief in equality of outcome

Nothing in the world is fair or even and nor should it be despite your desire for it to be so

[Frodo]

That is ****ing hilarious

In the real world whenever a government gets involved in running industries costs go up because governments bring bureaucracy in and nothing gets done without increased costs

You are trying to now claim that this won't happen here

FMD


As for the current health spend that is reasonably able to be estimated

That estimate of Bernies is just that a ****ing guess

Because no one knows how much it will cost

You open up Medicare for all and there be much more costs than can ever be estimated just like every other government policy or initiative that comes in well over budget

The fact that Bernie doesn't really know the answered on it says plenty

The US is the only developed nation that doesn't have Universal Healthcare. Everyone else seems to manage it with much lower percentage of GDP costs for health than what the US is currently spending. And the US system is also crippling it's population with debt. It takes a special type of stupid to think that a system that works everywhere else in the world can't work there.

Just admit that all you really want is for poor people to suffer. Cause yet again, you don't seem to bring many facts to these discussions, just regurgitation of the fear-mongering that Murdoch is feeding you. The Bernie numbers have been backed up by 2 major independent studies, and I haven't seen any that disprove their numbers as yet. By all means, find them and being them here for discussion.

[MFKS]

Waiting times and recovery rates are superior in the USA

Why because these are not held hostage by your communist system you advocate for

I know someone in Oz this week who was told 8 week wait for a doctor to be available to cut a growth from their face

That is a joke

That the BS Medicare offers us where we wait 2 months for a procedure that should be available today when you want it

[Frodo]

Waiting times and recovery rates are superior in the USA

Why because these are not held hostage by your communist system you advocate for

I know someone in Oz this week who was told 8 week wait for a doctor to be available to cut a growth from their face

That is a joke

That the BS Medicare offers us where we wait 2 months for a procedure that should be available today when you want it

Waiting times are quicker for those that can afford insurance in the US, not for everyone. And if you want that convenience in Aus you can happily pay for it. Private insurance shouldn't mean that only the wealthy can afford to see a doctor. The implementation of a Medicare for all wouldn't affect the speed of the wealthy getting help.

[MFKS]

Waiting times are quicker for those that can afford insurance in the US, not for everyone. And if you want that convenience in Aus you can happily pay for it. Private insurance shouldn't mean that only the wealthy can afford to see a doctor. The implementation of a Medicare for all wouldn't affect the speed of the wealthy getting help.

But you do realise the USA has a thing called Medicaid which approx 18% of the population is on??

You know the poor and old that you bemoan are being left out of health care are still able to see doctors etc


The reality is the USA have tied the health insurance for employers to provide and not the taxpayer

Those who actually contribute to society by having jobs are actually looked after with great health care

What is wrong with that ??

[Frodo]

But you do realise the USA has a thing called Medicaid which approx 18% of the population is on??

You know the poor and old that you bemoan are being left out of health care are still able to see doctors etc


The reality is the USA have tied the health insurance for employers to provide and not the taxpayer

Those who actually contribute to society by having jobs are actually looked after with great health care

What is wrong with that ??

It costs between $10k and $32k to have a baby in their system. How is that looking after those that contribute to society? That's robbery IMO.

Medicaid isn't working at all, if it was Healthcare wouldn't be the most important issue of the election right now. Every other country is focused on climate changes and those yanks can't even sort out how to keep their people from dying needlessly. Even poorer African nations and the middle east have the Hospital side covered, they just keep filling them too quickly.

Also, you go on about your faith yet you don't give a shit about those who don't "contribute to society" in your eyes. You're a walking contradiction. You just hide hatred behind a book of fiction. You're a poor persons version of a Scientologist. Maybe that's why you thought Bernie was Robin Hood, you've spent too long listening to bed time stories to function in the real world now.

[MFKS]

It costs between $10k and $32k to have a baby in their system. How is that looking after those that contribute to society? That's robbery IMO.

Medicaid isn't working at all, if it was Healthcare wouldn't be the most important issue of the election right now. Every other country is focused on climate changes and those yanks can't even sort out how to keep their people from dying needlessly. Even poorer African nations and the middle east have the Hospital side covered, they just keep filling them too quickly.

Also, you go on about your faith yet you don't give a shit about those who don't "contribute to society" in your eyes. You're a walking contradiction. You just hide hatred behind a book of fiction. You're a poor persons version of a Scientologist. Maybe that's why you thought Bernie was Robin Hood, you've spent too long listening to bed time stories to function in the real world now.

And what are the costs in Australia of child birth??


As for the rest of your emotional tantrum government is not there to care for their citizens with welfare like you seem to think
It is not the responsibility of the contributing to society to fund the non contributors also as you seem to think either

[Frodo]

And what are the costs in Australia of child birth??


As for the rest of your emotional tantrum government is not there to care for their citizens with welfare like you seem to think
It is not the responsibility of the contributing to society to fund the non contributors also as you seem to think either

Emotional tantrum? Did I make you feel your feelings or something? I'm not getting emotional, I save my tantrums for Arsenal losses, thank you.


It is the government's job to care for the less fortunate. That's a part of the reason why we pay taxes. I would rather my taxes help out a struggling family than bail out the banks again, or subsidise a mining companies losses from poor management, or fill the pockets of companies that politicians have vested interests in with dodgy funding schemes.

But you keep hating on poor people. One day you'll realise that you and I are statistically a single bad week away from being homeless. I'm sure if it ever happened you'd quickly learn some compassion.

[MFKS]

Emotional tantrum? Did I make you feel your feelings or something? I'm not getting emotional, I save my tantrums for Arsenal losses, thank you.


It is the government's job to care for the less fortunate. That's a part of the reason why we pay taxes. I would rather my taxes help out a struggling family than bail out the banks again, or subsidise a mining companies losses from poor management, or fill the pockets of companies that politicians have vested interests in with dodgy funding schemes.

But you keep hating on poor people. One day you'll realise that you and I are statistically a single bad week away from being homeless. I'm sure if it ever happened you'd quickly learn some compassion.

No it is never the government's job to care for the people

The government's role is to set up a system to allow the society to flourish

The system is capitalism
The nature if it is you bend your back and you will get your rewards out if it

Those who do not bend their backs are left behind for not embracing their opportunity


You are advocating for a system where the government funds the lazy and weak instead of having them thems take responsibility for themselves

Those that succeed in the world do so by taking care of themselves not getting handouts from the government


The reason we pay taxes is for the use of shared facilities likes roads hospitals etc
It not there for welfare programs.

The concept of welfare programs is only recent in the last 150 years and they have been nothing but a drain on societies

[MFKS]

Also what are the costs of child birth in Australia

Don't dodge that question

[Frodo]

Those that succeed in the world do so by taking care of themselves not getting handouts from the government

This is 100% certified bullshit. Capitalism is built on subsidies, payouts and tax breaks for the rich.

354 of the top companies in Aus paid Zero tax 2 years ago. They made a combined $911 billion in income. Why don't I get the same tax breaks that they get? Because your lovely sounding capitalism is broken beyond repair.

If they can't survive without the government throwing money at them, neither can those at the lower end of spectrum.


It's fine, I've lost count of the amount of times I've used facts to prove this nonsense of yours wrong and you bring nothing new or truthful to the table. You hate poor people, that's your issue. If your book is real I can't wait to hear how you explain that one to the carpenter and his dad.

[MFKS]

This is 100% certified bullshit. Capitalism is built on subsidies, payouts and tax breaks for the rich.

354 of the top companies in Aus paid Zero tax 2 years ago. They made a combined $911 billion in income. Why don't I get the same tax breaks that they get? Because your lovely sounding capitalism is broken beyond repair.

If they can't survive without the government throwing money at them, neither can those at the lower end of spectrum.


It's fine, I've lost count of the amount of times I've used facts to prove this nonsense of yours wrong and you bring nothing new or truthful to the table. You hate poor people, that's your issue. If your book is real I can't wait to hear how you explain that one to the carpenter and his dad.

It is you that makes the claim I hate poor people

Nowhere have I claimed this but don't let that fact get in your way of your emotional claims

Every person in this country or every person in the USA has an opportunity to be successful in life

Finish school
Get a job
Don't have a family until you have a stable partner
Don't do drugs
Look after your family

You will be moderately successful and have a comfortable existence

Yet you want me to feel sympathy for those who neglect to take their opportunity they are provided??

Compared to the rest of the world we are blessed with opportunity that others can only dream about. So I will never have any sympathy for the weak here who you think need hand outs from the government rather than be expected to sort their own shit out and take responsibility for themselves

I actually got more faith in them than you do

You want them to remain victims
I want them to face reality and rise to the challenge before them. I believe they can achieve when put in a position they have to achieve

[Skirt Boy]

It is you that makes the claim I hate poor people

Nowhere have I claimed this but don't let that fact get in your way of your emotional claims

Every person in this country or every person in the USA has an opportunity to be successful in life

Finish school
Get a job
Don't have a family until you have a stable partner
Don't do drugs
Look after your family

You will be moderately successful and have a comfortable existence

Yet you want me to feel sympathy for those who neglect to take their opportunity they are provided??

Compared to the rest of the world we are blessed with opportunity that others can only dream about. So I will never have any sympathy for the weak here who you think need hand outs from the government rather than be expected to sort their own shit out and take responsibility for themselves

I actually got more faith in them than you do

You want them to remain victims
I want them to face reality and rise to the challenge before them. I believe they can achieve when put in a position they have to achieve

And for those who for no fault of their own can not live up to this ideal?

Victims of crime, mentally ill, disabled.............?

[MFKS]

And for those who for no fault of their own can not live up to this ideal?

Victims of crime, mentally ill, disabled.............?

Free hand out from the government Is your answer I suppose??

Always making excuses for people.

It exactly why you leftists will continue punish people with your low expectations and everyone wins a trophy for participation mentality

Equality of outcome doesn't exist and not should it

Life is a battle

Some win
Some lose

[Frodo]

Free hand out from the government Is your answer I suppose??

Always making excuses for people.

It exactly why you leftists will continue punish people with your low expectations and everyone wins a trophy for participation mentality

Equality of outcome doesn't exist and not should it

Life is a battle

Some win
Some lose

This is why I said you hate poor people. All of the above is proof that you're an elitist in your own mind. You think that you're better than others because you earn an average wage and live an average life. You've been tricked into thinking like this by capitalists. They use people like you to fight their fights for them. It's an absolutely brilliant yet evil strategy that has been working for them for decades.

Thankfully it seems like you Boomers may be the last of their warriors to come through. I don't know if capitalism will die out or there will just be a new form of hatred introduced into the world to keep a hold of power. Likely the latter.

[MFKS]

This is why I said you hate poor people. All of the above is proof that you're an elitist in your own mind. You think that you're better than others because you earn an average wage and live an average life. You've been tricked into thinking like this by capitalists. They use people like you to fight their fights for them. It's an absolutely brilliant yet evil strategy that has been working for them for decades.

Thankfully it seems like you Boomers may be the last of their warriors to come through. I don't know if capitalism will die out or there will just be a new form of hatred introduced into the world to keep a hold of power. Likely the latter.

I am an elitest now

FMD I giving you credit for actually being intelligent is my downfall here


How hard is it to hold people to account??
How hard is it to accept that the world and life isn't fair or balanced or even??

Simple concepts I grasp just like many others do that you are struggling with


What I do see from you is envy.
You are envious of money you are envious of success
The worst part about your envy is that it is of others predicaments and has **** all to do with your plight

Envy i dont have of others achieving success nor am I envious of their money and wealth

That is for the weak


As for what is coming in the world . Well the Western Civilisation is doomed to failure that is pretty much certainty at some point

With all the leftist moral degeneracy we have and other warped leftist ideals western society has it pretty certain we will be swallowed up eventually by other cultures or implode on itself whatever comes first

[The Dunster]

I am an elitest now

FMD I giving you credit for actually being intelligent is my downfall here


How hard is it to hold people to account??
How hard is it to accept that the world and life isn't fair or balanced or even??

Simple concepts I grasp just like many others do that you are struggling with


What I do see from you is envy.
You are envious of money you are envious of success
The worst part about your envy is that it is of others predicaments and has **** all to do with your plight

Envy i dont have of others achieving success nor am I envious of their money and wealth

That is for the weak


As for what is coming in the world . Well the Western Civilisation is doomed to failure that is pretty much certainty at some point

With all the leftist moral degeneracy we have and other warped leftist ideals western society has it pretty certain we will be swallowed up eventually by other cultures or implode on itself whatever comes first



1 Timothy 6:6-12 But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness. Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made your good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

I'm happy to report that this is where I'm at in life.

Unfortunately most people are not even close to it - including billionaires.

[Eastwest]

I am an elitest now
FMD I giving you credit for actually being intelligent is my downfall here

Correct.

Reading through this it appears he is a jealous Arsenhole fan and extreme left cry baby. Dont feed the trolls

[MFKS]

Couple of things with Corona


I gonna go out on a limb and say none of these celebrities will die from it

What we got now

Tom Hanks
Mrs Tom Hanks
Peter Dutton
Mikel Arteta
Trudeaus wife
Some NBA players
Juventus nobody

This list is growing

Being the alleged kill rate on this is somewhere between 3 to 4%

It be logical that some high profile **** is going to bite the dust

I backing it won't happen


The other most baffling thing is how happy the public are to allow the government to take away our freedom and liberties as an OTT fear campaign has been waged

After all the tally in this country of deaths from Corona currently sits at a massive total of 3
Being that the ages of those so far is 78 95 82 it is hardly a concern when we have lost more than that in March already via Suicide or Car Crashes or Murders

[The Dunster]

Couple of things with Corona


I gonna go out on a limb and say none of these celebrities will die from it

What we got now

Tom Hanks
Mrs Tom Hanks
Peter Dutton
Mikel Arteta
Trudeaus wife
Some NBA players
Juventus nobody

This list is growing

Being the alleged kill rate on this is somewhere between 3 to 4%

It be logical that some high profile **** is going to bite the dust

I backing it won't happen


The other most baffling thing is how happy the public are to allow the government to take away our freedom and liberties as an OTT fear campaign has been waged

After all the tally in this country of deaths from Corona currently sits at a massive total of 3
Being that the ages of those so far is 78 95 82 it is hardly a concern when we have lost more than that in March already via Suicide or Car Crashes or Murders

Australia has a first class and affordable health system.

The USA does not. I just hope the $50billion they brought forward for screening isn't too little too late.

[MFKS]

Australia has a first class and affordable health system.

The USA does not. I just hope the $50billion they brought forward for screening isn't too little too late.

Australia has a First class health system??

So you want an operation say because your knee troubles you you can get one organised today or tomorrow or you have to wait months on end ??

That ain't first class system when you suffering for months on end thanks to our Medicare System doles it out to who is deemed worthiest

[Bremsstrahlung]

Couple of things with Corona


I gonna go out on a limb and say none of these celebrities will die from it

What we got now

Tom Hanks
Mrs Tom Hanks
Peter Dutton
Mikel Arteta
Trudeaus wife
Some NBA players
Juventus nobody

This list is growing

Being the alleged kill rate on this is somewhere between 3 to 4%

It be logical that some high profile **** is going to bite the dust

I backing it won't happen


The other most baffling thing is how happy the public are to allow the government to take away our freedom and liberties as an OTT fear campaign has been waged

After all the tally in this country of deaths from Corona currently sits at a massive total of 3
Being that the ages of those so far is 78 95 82 it is hardly a concern when we have lost more than that in March already via Suicide or Car Crashes or Murders



That’s why they have released a list of “at risk” people.
A lot of the known/celebrity type people, do not really fit the at risk profile, so you’re probably correct.
I probably won’t die from it, you probably won’t, a lot of people won’t.

However it does pose a risk to a large chunk of the population. Children, the Elderly and Ill.
At the moment, I’m pretty sure influenza killed 200 people in 2019. So while we aren’t at those levels yet, if global precedence is anything to go by, we could soon well be in a few weeks time.

The media has definitely contributed to things. But fear is human response to being made aware of the situation. Humans themselves have increased fear and panic.

Government initiatives aim to limit the spread. You don’t have to comply. As we have seen with Italy, it can spread pretty quickly and while the vast majority will be fine, people will die and whose to say their life doesn’t matter if you can prevent it.

What’s the conspiracy? Why are they doing it then?

[Bremsstrahlung]

Australia has a First class health system??

So you want an operation say because your knee troubles you you can get one organised today or tomorrow or you have to wait months on end ??

That ain't first class system when you suffering for months on end thanks to our Medicare System doles it out to who is deemed worthiest

If you need urgent surgery you get it. If you have a chronic problem, you wait your turn.

[MFKS]

If you need urgent surgery you get it. If you have a chronic problem, you wait your turn.

And in USA where they have a competent system
They wheel you in and do the job that day


I prefer that option

[Bremsstrahlung]

You can also do that here.
It’s called self insured/self funded.

[Skirt Boy]

And in USA where they have a competent system
They wheel you in and do the job that day


I prefer that option

Only if you have the money. You die if you're poor

[MFKS]

Only if you have the money. You die if you're poor

You do realise ERs in USA are mandated by law to treat people in need of emergency treatment ??

So exactly how are those in need dying,??

But don't let that fact go against your narrative

[The Dunster]

You do realise ERs in USA are mandated by law to treat people in need of emergency treatment ??

So exactly how are those in need dying,??

But don't let that fact go against your narrative

The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA) 1986.

Problem is it doesn't work well due to hospitals dumping patients and fines for non-compliance being too small to restrict adverse behaviour.


A review of investigations by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) of the Department of Health and Human Services, including cases settled from 2002–2015, found that in that period there were 192 settlements with fines against hospitals and physicians totaling $6,357,000. Ninety-six percent of the settlements were against hospitals, and the rest against physicians. (An abstract of the review is available online at: https://bit.ly/2Hc11CV.)


Most cases aren't reported either as the patients don't have the means to seek legal advice / assistance.


On the other side of the coin the act is a burden on hospitals as well due to simple overload.

[Bremsstrahlung]

But don't let that fact go against your narrative

:lulz: bit rich.
Your whole argument here is a narrative.

If you are sick, you get treatment straight away.
If you have a chronic issue, you can go on a waiting list and first served for mostly free medical.
If you have chronic issue and don’t wish to wait you can use private health insurance.
Alternatively, if you have a chronic issue you can choose to pay for your treatment, and be seen promptly.

If US and trump are so brilliant, move there. Or stay put and whinge and whine.

[MFKS]

:lulz: bit rich.
Your whole argument here is a narrative.

If you are sick, you get treatment straight away.
If you have a chronic issue, you can go on a waiting list and first served for mostly free medical.
If you have chronic issue and don’t wish to wait you can use private health insurance.
Alternatively, if you have a chronic issue you can choose to pay for your treatment, and be seen promptly.

If US and trump are so brilliant, move there. Or stay put and whinge and whine.

I already struggling to cope with living in a country that happily concede our freedoms to government rule for something that has killed less people than have drowned in Oz in a bath tub this year

[Bremsstrahlung]

More narrative.

Your mates in the USA seem to be conceding a few freedoms also.

[Frodo]

Trump tried to buy a German company that is close to creating a Covid 19 vaccine. The stipulation was that the vaccine was for US only.

i.e. they were going to charge extortionate fees for the vaccine.. because as the member has been banging on about... poor people don't deserve to live!


Between this crap and the Republicans telling everyone it's a democratic hoax designed to attack Trump's reelection campaign, I don't know how that place can get any worse.

[Skirt Boy]

I don't know how that place can get any worse.

Easy.

[MFKS]

Trump tried to buy a German company that is close to creating a Covid 19 vaccine. The stipulation was that the vaccine was for US only.

i.e. they were going to charge extortionate fees for the vaccine.. because as the member has been banging on about... poor people don't deserve to live!


Between this crap and the Republicans telling everyone it's a democratic hoax designed to attack Trump's reelection campaign, I don't know how that place can get any worse.

It is actually the smart ploy

If he buys it he don't get fleeced on it

If some other guy has access to it 1st they charge whatever they like

The USA is left paying extra

As for it being a Democratic party hoax

Don't be surprised the left will lie cheat and steal

They can't beat Trump straight up in a fair fight so they will resort to whatever they can

If anything I was expecting straight up vote tampering but this could be part of their game as well

[Frodo]

It is actually the smart ploy

If he buys it he don't get fleeced on it

If some other guy has access to it 1st they charge whatever they like

The USA is left paying extra

As for it being a Democratic party hoax

Don't be surprised the left will lie cheat and steal

They can't beat Trump straight up in a fair fight so they will resort to whatever they can

If anything I was expecting straight up vote tampering but this could be part of their game as well

The logic right here is mesmerising. You are truly are a very special person member. You make my day every now and again, today is one of those days. Thanks.

[MFKS]

The logic right here is mesmerising. You are truly are a very special person member. You make my day every now and again, today is one of those days. Thanks.

Happy to provide you with an improvement in your flawed logic anytime

[Bremsstrahlung]

Trump instructed his team to create a biological threat.
A member of his team that accidentally contracted the virus during testing had a plane ticket purchased to China. His family also received a sizeable deposit into their bank accounts in the weeks leading up to to “outbreak in China”.

Trumps plan to now reap the financial gain from this is a indictment on how brilliant he is and how great America is.
Edit: and their healthcare system, don’t forget that.



Now I know how member feels, story time is fun.

[Frodo]

Trump instructed his team to create a biological threat.
A member of his team that accidentally contracted the virus during testing had a plane ticket purchased to China. His family also received a sizeable deposit into their bank accounts in the weeks leading up to to “outbreak in China”.

Trumps plan to now reap the financial gain from this is a indictment on how brilliant he is and how great America is.
Edit: and their healthcare system, don’t forget that.



Now I know how member feels, story time is fun.

You forgot to mention CNN.

But I love the rest, well done.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I already struggling to cope with living in a country that happily concede our freedoms to government rule for something that has killed less people than have drowned in Oz in a bath tub this year

The great country of the free people has states closing schools, restaurants, universities, postponing festivals, sports and considering bans on domestic travel.

Can’t wait for the rant attacking our government for not taking it serious enough and using the US as a benchmark.

[pv4]

https://i.imgur.com/6uL4pAS.jpg

[StannyCFCJET]

Is it true that the when the Chinese doctor first discovered Coronavirus and tried to warn the government he was locked up for trying to cause trouble and they covered it up?

[The Dunster]

https://i.gifer.com/4VYw.gif
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/083/757/203.gif

[Skirt Boy]

Is it true that the when the Chinese doctor first discovered Coronavirus and tried to warn the government he was locked up for trying to cause trouble and they covered it up?

That's the mail I've been reading.

[The Dunster]

There are people selling toilet paper on Ebay. The more people this virus can kill the better.
THe level of greed and self entitlement within people these days is disgusting.

[Frodo]

There are people selling toilet paper on Ebay. The more people this virus can kill the better.
THe level of greed and self entitlement within people these days is disgusting.

You can't say that because the people it will kill aren't the ones you would hope. It's the elderly or immune deficient that are dying, whereas it's the middle aged ****tards who are trying to profit from it.

Basically you should set up fake accounts and buy them out without paying for it. Keep screwing them over for as long as possible, because once we get this under control there won't be a market any more.

[The Dunster]

The USA looks like it's about to turn into the next Stephen King novel. People have already started stockpiling firearms and ammunition.
I was never a fan of John Howard but he definitely got it right when it comes to gun ownership in Australia.

[Frodo]

Definitely seen lots of insane Facebook/Twitter posts of gun stockpiles next the comments.

"Try to stop me getting some toilet paper and see what happens" or something of that ilk.


This virus has definitely shown to Americans how far behind the rest of the world they are. Being treated like the 2nd world country they have become is very sobering for them.

[MFKS]

The great country of the free people has states closing schools, restaurants, universities, postponing festivals, sports and considering bans on domestic travel.

Can’t wait for the rant attacking our government for not taking it serious enough and using the US as a benchmark.

Our government are idiots

They are causing the panic

Good work of there's to give a ****ing hand Out to old ****s and dole bludgers to stimulate spending

Last I looked spending ain't a problem

Governments role in this time should be to reduce panic

Eas8est way to reduce panic is get what needs doing to sort out these supply shortages

As soon as the supply is up this panic buying stops


Also on another note

Big thank you to leftist ideology

Diversity and Open Borders are big components of their delusion

Really working well isn't it??

No community working together for each other hence the every man for himself attitude at the shops as we do not have shared identity any more and that disease is easily spread by the free movement of people

[MFKS]

The USA looks like it's about to turn into the next Stephen King novel. People have already started stockpiling firearms and ammunition.
I was never a fan of John Howard but he definitely got it right when it comes to gun ownership in Australia.
The reason they are stockpiling firearms is because of looting whilst the law enforcement is stretched thin

Last major event in USA Hurricane Katrina saw mass looting murfer and rapes and all sorts of shit going down whilst the waters were up and the cops were busy

People stockpiling for self defence


As for our country the US 2nd Amendment protects the people from government tyrann as the people are entitled to arm themselves against the government. We can't do that

So our overlords are able to take our freedom a way whenever they want

[idontwannaplaywithhowey]

Our government are idiots

They are causing the panic

Good work of there's to give a ****ing hand Out to old ****s and dole bludgers to stimulate spending

Last I looked spending ain't a problem

Governments role in this time should be to reduce panic

Eas8est way to reduce panic is get what needs doing to sort out these supply shortages

As soon as the supply is up this panic buying stops


Also on another note

Big thank you to leftist ideology

Diversity and Open Borders are big components of their delusion

Really working well isn't it??

No community working together for each other hence the every man for himself attitude at the shops as we do not have shared identity any more and that disease is easily spread by the free movement of people

The point is that spending will be an issue when people stop going outside. There are numerous aspects to this issue and the impact on the economy is one of them that needs to be considered (and the massive impact this will have on causal workers, small businesses and contractors when people just stop spending their money cause they stuck inside)

And in terms of community, I don't dare suggest I'm as world wise and open minded as you, but its been the middle age Aussie's that have been freaking out and acting like a bunch of ****s when I've been at the supermarket. Its a small sample size, but I haven't seen much 'true blue mateship', and i for one don't blame any immigrants for that, i blame those ****wit individuals that don't give 2 shit's about an Australian, new Australian, or anyone but themselves. Personally, my sense of community extends to all these people. I'll even give some bog roll to you if you need it.

[MFKS]

And by announcing a stimulus package to boost the economy all they have done is fast forward panic shopping

People are seeing the writing on the wall

Supermarkets have stock shortages
Government closing things down
Economy tanking due to the stimulus announcement

The government's handling in Oz of this issue in the last 7 days has just increased the panic needlessly

This shit at the supermarkets is gonna get worse

The amount of deliveries to refill supermarkets around Australia logic suggests ain't happening anytime soon
1 Do we have enough trucks
2 Do we have enough trucks drivers

Regardless of whether Woolies n Coles have the stock in the warehouse or not logic suggests they ain't going to keep up with demand anytime soon further worsening the situation

Then we can look into the suppliers of raw equipment etc to produce products and all those logistics who are also gonna be compromised

The Oz government is balling this up big time

[MFKS]

Also like to point out Italy has Socialist health care

Stories circulating the internet that the Italians are now that inundated they leaving those over 80 with Corona to fend for themselves and are not wasting resources on them

I ain't in Italy but if that true then that is a glaring indictment on health care that you Leftists want

Limited resources being arbitrarily divvied up and restricted to those in need under a system on par with what we have in Medicare in Oz

[Macca]

Also like to point out Italy has Socialist health care

Stories circulating the internet that the Italians are now that inundated they leaving those over 80 with Corona to fend for themselves and are not wasting resources on them

I ain't in Italy but if that true then that is a glaring indictment on health care that you Leftists want

Limited resources being arbitrarily divvied up and restricted to those in need under a system on par with what we have in Medicare in Oz

As opposed to America where anyone requiring treatment who has no money is left to fend for themselves and resources are not wasted on them?

Surprised your stance isn't that people over 80 have had a good run and should be fed to the wolves, they're not exactly productive members of society anymore are they? Lifters and leaners and all that.

[Frodo]

US is currently sneaking through laws on end to end encryption whilst all this is going on. Basically giving the government the right to every phonecall or message anyone in the US sends.

Land of the free and all that!

[Frodo]

Also like to point out Italy has Socialist health care

Stories circulating the internet that the Italians are now that inundated they leaving those over 80 with Corona to fend for themselves and are not wasting resources on them

I ain't in Italy but if that true then that is a glaring indictment on health care that you Leftists want

Limited resources being arbitrarily divvied up and restricted to those in need under a system on par with what we have in Medicare in Oz

What are they supposed to do until we have a vaccine? The problem isn't who's paying for the care, it's the number of doctors/beds/nurses compared to the amount of patients. If the government had closed borders and enacted social distancing when they were told to they wouldn't have hospitals overrun with patients.

Didn't you say this whole thing is some sort of hoax just to try and cheat an election? All those 1000s of people dying must all be a lie anyway....

[Frodo]

The stimulus package was $17.6 billion, only approx $4.4 billion went to individuals. So when people start complaining about where the money is going, don't forget that 3/4 of the package went directly to businesses. And that doesn't incl the second stimulus package coming for big businesses soon.

[The Dunster]

Also like to point out Italy has Socialist health care

Stories circulating the internet that the Italians are now that inundated they leaving those over 80 with Corona to fend for themselves and are not wasting resources on them

I ain't in Italy but if that true then that is a glaring indictment on health care that you Leftists want

Limited resources being arbitrarily divvied up and restricted to those in need under a system on par with what we have in Medicare in Oz

The problem with Italy is that they don't have their own currency. Therefore they have the double whammy of not enough money and not enough real resources.
Countries like the USA and Australia as Frodo quite rightly pointed out just have the real resources issues to solve.

[MFKS]

What are they supposed to do until we have a vaccine? The problem isn't who's paying for the care, it's the number of doctors/beds/nurses compared to the amount of patients. If the government had closed borders and enacted social distancing when they were told to they wouldn't have hospitals overrun with patients.

Didn't you say this whole thing is some sort of hoax just to try and cheat an election? All those 1000s of people dying must all be a lie anyway....

Italy can barely control their border now thanks to the mass immigration open border policies of the EU

No the problem is despite the pandemic issue of Corona the allocating of care is arbitrarily decided and restricted under your socialist medical system. It is an inherent major flaw of your philiosophy you advocate for. You are a actually distancing yourself from its short coming when it is pointed out instead of owning it



I said it could well be a plot to election tamper. The Democrats did their fair share of it in 2016 and still lost anyway

[MFKS]

As opposed to America where anyone requiring treatment who has no money is left to fend for themselves and resources are not wasted on them?

Surprised your stance isn't that people over 80 have had a good run and should be fed to the wolves, they're not exactly productive members of society anymore are they? Lifters and leaners and all that.

But those in America who finished school stayed off drugs got an education held down a job and didn't waste their opportunity are being taken care of

Exactly why does sympathy need to be shown to those who have failed in their life by the decisions they made??

[MFKS]

The problem with Italy is that they don't have their own currency. Therefore they have the double whammy of not enough money and not enough real resources.
Countries like the USA and Australia as Frodo quite rightly pointed out just have the real resources issues to solve.

Italy biggest problem is being part of the EU

No currency no borders reduction in supplies etc

They in a lot worse state because they don't have 100% sovereignty than they would if they were not part of the EU

[Macca]

But those in America who finished school stayed off drugs got an education held down a job and didn't waste their opportunity are being taken care of

Exactly why does sympathy need to be shown to those who have failed in their life by the decisions they made??

Those people who are young and healthy and look after themselves (for the most part) aren't in danger from the virus.

Why does sympathy need to be shown to those who have made the decision to have poor health or grow to an old age?

[Frodo]

Italy can barely control their border now thanks to the mass immigration open border policies of the EU

No the problem is despite the pandemic issue of Corona the allocating of care is arbitrarily decided and restricted under your socialist medical system. It is an inherent major flaw of your philiosophy you advocate for. You are a actually distancing yourself from its short coming when it is pointed out instead of owning it



I said it could well be a plot to election tamper. The Democrats did their fair share of it in 2016 and still lost anyway

The fact that their healthcare is social rather private has zero effect on the number of cases. Open borders also aren't the main cause because most other European nations have the same border policies and because they closed borders sooner and enacted social distancing and quarantines they have a much much smaller number of cases.

The number of cases is too much for the hospitals to handle, this is also a government planning issue. But again, if the government had listened to warnings and been as proactive as other nations, they wouldn't have the same number of cases and be as overburdened in their hospitals as they are now.

Having private healthcare would have zero effect non the situation at this stage. Once we get to a recovery stage you can argue pros and cons for private/universal.

[Frodo]

Italy biggest problem is being part of the EU

No currency no borders reduction in supplies etc

They in a lot worse state because they don't have 100% sovereignty than they would if they were not part of the EU

Why does Germany have the same money, the same border controls, Universal Healthcare but has one of the lowest death rates?

The answer is that they have a superb leader who organised testing facilities immediately and social distancing very quick. Now they have border controls and are catching cases early.

[MFKS]

Those people who are young and healthy and look after themselves (for the most part) aren't in danger from the virus.

Why does sympathy need to be shown to those who have made the decision to have poor health or grow to an old age?

No we are talking about access to healthcare in the USA

Don't divert like a leftist

Stay on subject

[MFKS]

Why does Germany have the same money, the same border controls, Universal Healthcare but has one of the lowest death rates?

The answer is that they have a superb leader who organised testing facilities immediately and social distancing very quick. Now they have border controls and are catching cases early.

You do realise the Germans and French are the 2 benefiting the most from the EU??

You could argue that Germany are doing what they failed to do in the War by conquering Europe politically and not by force

Nations like Italy and Spain are struggling under it

Don't be surprised if the EU falls apart in the next 5 years

[MFKS]

The fact that their healthcare is social rather private has zero effect on the number of cases. Open borders also aren't the main cause because most other European nations have the same border policies and because they closed borders sooner and enacted social distancing and quarantines they have a much much smaller number of cases.

The number of cases is too much for the hospitals to handle, this is also a government planning issue. But again, if the government had listened to warnings and been as proactive as other nations, they wouldn't have the same number of cases and be as overburdened in their hospitals as they are now.

Having private healthcare would have zero effect non the situation at this stage. Once we get to a recovery stage you can argue pros and cons for private/universal.

Great diversion

Why not just say

Let's not discuss social medicine v user pays right now because you can beat me over the head with its major flaw which is on show

You got government officials and bureaucrats deciding who lives and dies and who gets treatment and who doesn't



What a wonderful world you aspire to

[Macca]

No we are talking about access to healthcare in the USA

Don't divert like a leftist

Stay on subject

I'm not diverting. I haven't changed my argument from my first reply, which you decided to divert around like a leftist.

[The Dunster]

Italy biggest problem is being part of the EU

No currency no borders reduction in supplies etc

They in a lot worse state because they don't have 100% sovereignty than they would if they were not part of the EU

Absolutely. Covid 19 might be the final straw for this EU nonsense.

[MFKS]

I'm not diverting. I haven't changed my argument from my first reply, which you decided to divert around like a leftist.

I don't believe in equality of outcome

Your leftist stance does though

Socialist medicine does not deliver equality of outcome

[Frodo]

Great diversion

Why not just say

Let's not discuss social medicine v user pays right now because you can beat me over the head with its major flaw which is on show

You got government officials and bureaucrats deciding who lives and dies and who gets treatment and who doesn't



What a wonderful world you aspire to

What?

I haven't diverted, you just obviously can't understand simple information. That's your problem, not the rest of us.


The US has your perfect healthcare system but the government won't fund any testing, so 1000s of people are carrying the virus around undetected. The people with private healthcare can get the test, but they can't stop from being infected by the majority of people who can't afford it right now. Don't forget that the highest case of infections in Australia from overseas travel has come from the US.

When a vaccine is created, the people with private will get it. The poor won't, which means they'll be carriers to infect and re-infect more people.

Countries with Universal Healthcare will be able to blanket vaccine the country and stop it's spread. The US will have this virus as a problem for a lot longer than us.

[Frodo]

I don't believe in equality of outcome

Your leftist stance does though

Socialist medicine does not deliver equality of outcome

Well the US is living like a 2nd world country right now whereas the majority of Europe, which is on the same land mass as the epicenter and fallout, has a slower infection rate than the US.

You keep talking down to Universal Healthcare but have zero evidence to back it up. You can't even think of anything positive about private healthcare can you? Find some countries without universal healthcare and show how well they are doing? Cause the US is absolutely floundering right now. Mexico and Canada have closed borders with it. African nations are coping better than the US right now. You're case study is a shitshow and you are sticking to the same failed hypothesis. It's getting sad.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Stay on subject

You choose not to reply whenever somebody proves you wrong.
Whenever a counter argument is made, you pick on a smaller piece of information and target and divert or give us some dribble that’s not even related to the topic of conversation.

Can’t argue with stupid.

[MFKS]

Well the US is living like a 2nd world country right now whereas the majority of Europe, which is on the same land mass as the epicenter and fallout, has a slower infection rate than the US.

You keep talking down to Universal Healthcare but have zero evidence to back it up. You can't even think of anything positive about private healthcare can you? Find some countries without universal healthcare and show how well they are doing? Cause the US is absolutely floundering right now. Mexico and Canada have closed borders with it. African nations are coping better than the US right now. You're case study is a shitshow and you are sticking to the same failed hypothesis. It's getting sad.

USA currently has 4800 infections and 90 deaths

There are 300 million people there

Some perspective may be required

As for a country with no universal healthcare

Philippines
100 million plus living in poverty for the most part
142 infections 12 deaths

They seem to be doing quite alright with no health care available for the poor locals

[MFKS]

You choose not to reply whenever somebody proves you wrong.
Whenever a counter argument is made, you pick on a smaller piece of information and target and divert or give us some dribble that’s not even related to the topic of conversation.

Can’t argue with stupid.

Be good to get a useful counter argument for a change then

[Frodo]

USA currently has 4800 infections and 90 deaths

There are 300 million people there

Some perspective may be required

As for a country with no universal healthcare

Philippines
100 million plus living in poverty for the most part
142 infections 12 deaths

They seem to be doing quite alright with no health care available for the poor locals

The US has a very high rate of increase in infection, so I don't think those stats show the true story.

But the Philippines is a good example to try to prove your point. At the same time it helps prove an earlier point of mine that since the government enacted quarantine measures and self isolation, the rate has slowed down to a rate of infection that their hospitals can control. Negating the pressure on any healthcare system.

[Frodo]

Be good to get a useful counter argument for a change then

Same here.

[MFKS]

What?

I haven't diverted, you just obviously can't understand simple information. That's your problem, not the rest of us.


The US has your perfect healthcare system but the government won't fund any testing, so 1000s of people are carrying the virus around undetected. The people with private healthcare can get the test, but they can't stop from being infected by the majority of people who can't afford it right now. Don't forget that the highest case of infections in Australia from overseas travel has come from the US.

When a vaccine is created, the people with private will get it. The poor won't, which means they'll be carriers to infect and re-infect more people.

Countries with Universal Healthcare will be able to blanket vaccine the country and stop it's spread. The US will have this virus as a problem for a lot longer than us.

At this point in time the biggest problem would be lack of resources for testing anyway so whether a government funded it or not is irrelevant in this time of world panic

But this brings us back to a basic point of a finite number of resources

Which is the reality of health care there is a limit to how many resources are available to be used on the public

Me and you are both in agreement here

But where we differ on how it will be dispensed

Me I believe it should be based on who can afford it so those who have succeeded at life will benefit

My stance is at least morally on Line with my principle of personal responsibility

You on the other hand want the governent and beuracrats to randomly dispense the resources in whatever manner they seem fit
Which is exactly what is happening with the no treatment to Italians because they are over 80 philosophy

The problem here is that this stance is hypocritical to your diversity of outcome belief you hold


See we both agree on dispensing of limited resources

You will happily support victimising the elderly here whilst I support victimising those who fail at life by being bludgers

I happy to hold my position on that are you??

[The Dunster]

At this point in time the biggest problem would be lack of resources for testing anyway so whether a government funded it or not is irrelevant in this time of world panic

But this brings us back to a basic point of a finite number of resources

Which is the reality of health care there is a limit to how many resources are available to be used on the public

Me and you are both in agreement here

But where we differ on how it will be dispensed

Me I believe it should be based on who can afford it so those who have succeeded at life will benefit

My stance is at least morally on Line with my principle of personal responsibility

You on the other hand want the governent and beuracrats to randomly dispense the resources in whatever manner they seem fit
Which is exactly what is happening with the no treatment to Italians because they are over 80 philosophy

The problem here is that this stance is hypocritical to your diversity of outcome belief you hold


See we both agree on dispensing of limited resources

You will happily support victimising the elderly here whilst I support victimising those who fail at life by being bludgers

I happy to hold my position on that are you??

You are reasoning from a false premise to support your position.
There is no alternative to socialism. It's the system we have - and it encompasses all other systems of economic and social organisation.
There is no such thing as free market capitalism. Never has been and never will be - it's just a pedagogical device used in economics text books to train undergraduates.

[Frodo]

At this point in time the biggest problem would be lack of resources for testing anyway so whether a government funded it or not is irrelevant in this time of world panic

But this brings us back to a basic point of a finite number of resources

Which is the reality of health care there is a limit to how many resources are available to be used on the public

Me and you are both in agreement here

But where we differ on how it will be dispensed

Me I believe it should be based on who can afford it so those who have succeeded at life will benefit

My stance is at least morally on Line with my principle of personal responsibility

You on the other hand want the governent and beuracrats to randomly dispense the resources in whatever manner they seem fit
Which is exactly what is happening with the no treatment to Italians because they are over 80 philosophy

The problem here is that this stance is hypocritical to your diversity of outcome belief you hold


See we both agree on dispensing of limited resources

You will happily support victimising the elderly here whilst I support victimising those who fail at life by being bludgers

I happy to hold my position on that are you??

Random? Universal is the exact opposite of random. So, please stop throwing around the term without reason.

The Italian thing about over 80 yrs old is to do with resources. They are going to lose people because the hospitals are over run. They are overrun because of the government's failure to act quick enough. Now the doctors have to make a choice in order to limit the amount of damage. Who has a better chance of and quicker recovery time between a 22 yr old and an 85 yr old? The hospital could likely help 3 x 22 yr old people with the same resources as the 85 yr old would take.


The Chinese have plenty not testing kits available, they offered us 500,000 tests a week ago, the Irish have been mass producing them too. Plenty of test kits are now available, we just don't have the facilities set up to administer them and don't know where we should start. South Korea has already tested over 250,000 people. A good government, like NZ or South Korea, would already have a plan to get this done better.

I'll stick to my morals of helping those in need first. I am actually disgusted by the logic that wealth should give you more basic human rights than someone else. You are very much on your own around here with that logic too. Some of us are actually decent human beings, you could learn a thing or two from some of them.

[MFKS]

Random? Universal is the exact opposite of random. So, please stop throwing around the term without reason.

The Italian thing about over 80 yrs old is to do with resources. They are going to lose people because the hospitals are over run. They are overrun because of the government's failure to act quick enough. Now the doctors have to make a choice in order to limit the amount of damage. Who has a better chance of and quicker recovery time between a 22 yr old and an 85 yr old? The hospital could likely help 3 x 22 yr old people with the same resources as the 85 yr old would take.


The Chinese have plenty not testing kits available, they offered us 500,000 tests a week ago, the Irish have been mass producing them too. Plenty of test kits are now available, we just don't have the facilities set up to administer them and don't know where we should start. South Korea has already tested over 250,000 people. A good government, like NZ or South Korea, would already have a plan to get this done better.

I'll stick to my morals of helping those in need first. I am actually disgusted by the logic that wealth should give you more basic human rights than someone else. You are very much on your own around here with that logic too. Some of us are actually decent human beings, you could learn a thing or two from some of them.

You are worried about my logic yet you are advocating more or less euthaniseing the elderly with your policy ???

That some pretty bizarre logic you have there


As for your point on random it is irrelevant. Decisions are made by bureaucrats in any Universal System decision

So my point is correct it is randomly decided

[The Dunster]

Anyone having issues getting food / Groceries ? Not having a lot of luck around here except for fresh fruit and veges being easy to find. I guess mongs don't like eating healthy.