The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[The Dunster]

Labour have been anti-education since the day the union movement formed the Labour Party.

At lease the Conservatives have the balls to say they don't care about public education...or public anything for that matter.

Vote 1 for Turnbull. At least you won't get any surprises.

[hawk]

didint Labor off er 1.2 billion for Gonski?

[hawk]

Australia's foreign aid budget is disgracefully small anyway, the libs have savaged it but it's political poison, and i don't see labor pumping it up if they get in regardless. .
you want to blame someone for not helping out the so called battlers, go look at the rich end of town. australia's record in domestic philanthropy is absolutely putrid.

link? blame who for what?

Aust is broke as a fking joke, theres no money for any cvnt. assets, minerals and companies sold off. corporates hiding all the cash orf shore and tax dodging. We are pwned.

Labor prefer to keep the boats coming so half the peeps drown on the way and then the Greens have a skitz. wack man

[q-money]

link?

Labor prefer to keep the boats coming so half the peeps drown on the way and then the Greens have a skitz. wack man

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/australias-foreign-aid-budget-just-hit-rock-bottom-2016-5

http://www.afr.com/personal-finance/charity-begins-far-from-home-why-americans-are-more-generous-than-australians-20150515-gh2b81

[hawk]

That Zuckerberg mug took our money and handed it to deserving Yanks and makes US look generous, bums

does that phat trash Gina Rinehart give any thing to Aus?

[q-money]

yeah alright

[hawk]

get back to ya nrl game



dont look

http://www.australiandebtclock.com.au/

[q-money]

tell me where we sit as a percentage of GDP compared to other OECD economies

[q-money]

go count your money in your mansion scrooge mcduck

[hawk]

get into debt & negative gear champ, get off tha darts and punt and give it ago

[Couscous]

Gaz, I'm no expert and welcome any feedback, but this is my impression of school funding policy.

Before Labor won office in 2007, it had spoken vaguely about considering needs-based funding, without committing to a specific model. During its six years in office (Rudd and Gillard eras), Labor did almost nothing to change school funding, though Gillard eventually commissioned the Gonski review. Gonski reported shortly before Labor lost office. Since then, Labor has campaigned hard to implement the Gonski recommendations.

Why should I believe Labor is fair dinkum about needs-based school funding when it dithered for six years?

[The Dunster]

tell me where we sit as a percentage of GDP compared to other OECD economies

As long as people think Debt to GDP ratios or interest rates or the budgetary positions of Governments are in any way economically significant the war against Plutocracy is pretty much lost.

Groupthink is killing us all.

Hawks Debt Clock is actually pretty good but it can also be misinterpreted / misleading as well.

[stopper2]

Labour have been anti-education since the day the union movement formed the Labour Party.

At lease the Conservatives have the balls to say they don't care about public education...or public anything for that matter.

Vote 1 for Turnbull. At least you won't get any surprises.

I'm a worker so I won't be voting to get an arse reaming (with no lube either) from the Libs who want to screw us workers over and at the same time look after their buddies at the big corporate end of town.
I see Labour as the lesser of two evils in this battle, the two parties for a number of years had become a little blurred around the edges.
There is no mistaking what the LNP stand for nowadays....the RW neo-cons with the backing of the IPA and big overseas corporations....these are the actual ones running the country and influencing government policies.

[plague]

I'm a worker so I won't be voting to get an arse reaming (with no lube either) from the Libs who want to screw us workers over

How so?

[MFKS]

How so?

For a man as intelligent as you Plague what sort of question is that??

The Liberal party looking after the top end of town at the expense of the working man is not actually an earth shattering revelation is it??

[The Dunster]

with this election campaign almost as long as the a-league off season I thought I'd take this chance to start my campaign for everyone to get a better understanding of the importance of the Gonski funding to the schools and kids of Australia.

It's not about teachers being paid more it's got nothing to do with teachers pay awards, it's about kids education being funded to a level that will bring us up to the minimum needed to compete with international standards. Let that sink in.... We are playing catch up.

It's about a system that is fair and supports kids based on need.

A colleague has penned this, please take the time to read it and please pay attention to the Gonski campaign. It's imperative public schools and any school serving low-ses and high learning needs kids receive fairer funding and a much needed injection of funds.

If you've got any questions about Gonski sing out.

Education is meaningless without full employment.

Very few of my students were ever at a lecture to learn anything - In fact I'd say 999/1000 were there because a certain qualification gave them a better chance of gaining certain jobs.
The qualification itself was always about getting to the front of the labour queue more so than providing actual training or knowledge for the job.

Prior to the 1970's when full employment existed, labour queuing of this type was very rare almost non-existent.

Locally, you could get a job at BHP with very limited education and yet you could make very good money through hard work / overtime and so on.

So do we really need to be better educated or do we just need to get rid of all this labour queuing nonsense the ne0-liberals have inflicted upon us ?

[plague]

For a man as intelligent as you Plague what sort of question is that??

The Liberal party looking after the top end of town at the expense of the working man is not actually an earth shattering revelation is it??

Firstly you forgot to include 'ivory towers' in your cliche driven post there but anyway your comment is an oft repeated stance by 'the worker'.

All I'm asking is how stopper2 is personally impacted by the party that is in govt.

I mean, people have strong stances on this stuff I just want to know why.

It's a fair question.

[plague]

For a man as intelligent as you Plague what sort of question is that??

The Liberal party looking after the top end of town at the expense of the working man is not actually an earth shattering revelation is it??

Also, can someone point out where labor and Libs differ in their dealings with 'the top end of town'?

I'm talking policies, not age old perceptions and philosophies.

Help me out here.

[plague]

Also can someone explain to me who the 'top end of town' are?

I'm interested in your definition.

[GazFish35]

Education is meaningless without full employment.

Very few of my students were ever at a lecture to learn anything - In fact I'd say 999/1000 were there because a certain qualification gave them a better chance of gaining certain jobs.
The qualification itself was always about getting to the front of the labour queue more so than providing actual training or knowledge for the job.

Prior to the 1970's when full employment existed, labour queuing of this type was very rare almost non-existent.

Locally, you could get a job at BHP with very limited education and yet you could make very good money through hard work / overtime and so on.

So do we really need to be better educated or do we just need to get rid of all this labour queuing nonsense the ne0-liberals have inflicted upon us ?


My concern isn't literate uni students.
It's illiterate teens who go on to be illiterate adults.

There's links between a nation's education levels and crime rates, health and welfare dependencies.
Educate the population or the population suffers.

I agree the job market has changed significantly, the economy is vastly different now to how it was when the education system was created. Mass manufacturing jobs don't exist like they did and it's no longer as feasible for an illertae low-ses population to find work. The education system needs updating in order to meet the needs of the labour market, so let's do that rather than expect the labour market to go back in time and rely on large volumes of unskilled labour - we can't compete with international markets that way.

And an education is more than just about preparedness for the workforce. Literate, critical hunkers are more likely to make better health choices and reducing the strain on the health system also.

[MFKS]

My concern isn't literate uni students.
It's illiterate teens who go on to be illiterate adults.

There's links between a nation's education levels and crime rates, health and welfare dependencies.
Educate the population or the population suffers.

I agree the job market has changed significantly, the economy is vastly different now to how it was when the education system was created. Mass manufacturing jobs don't exist like they did and it's no longer as feasible for an illertae low-ses population to find work. The education system needs updating in order to meet the needs of the labour market, so let's do that rather than expect the labour market to go back in time and rely on large volumes of unskilled labour - we can't compete with international markets that way.

And an education is more than just about preparedness for the workforce. Literate, critical hunkers are more likely to make better health choices and reducing the strain on the health system also.

Can blame school teachers for literacy issues.

5 5 5

[GazFish35]

Gaz, I'm no expert and welcome any feedback, but this is my impression of school funding policy.

Before Labor won office in 2007, it had spoken vaguely about considering needs-based funding, without committing to a specific model. During its six years in office (Rudd and Gillard eras), Labor did almost nothing to change school funding, though Gillard eventually commissioned the Gonski review. Gonski reported shortly before Labor lost office. Since then, Labor has campaigned hard to implement the Gonski recommendations.

Why should I believe Labor is fair dinkum about needs-based school funding when it dithered for six years?


Gillard got bugger all done due to the nature of the parliament at the time, labour also threw cash at the school system to assist the economy through the gfc (and got sfa in terms of value for money) so they at least have a that as a defence.

I suppose I'm basing my views of the libs saying we won't, and the labs saying they will.

The only thing for certain is the libs won't. Leaving the only hope for what I see as the most urgent need for govt spending to actually happen is that the reds get in.

[plague]

labour also threw cash at the school system to assist the economy through the gfc (and got sfa in terms of value for money) so they at least have a that as a defence.

I suppose I'm basing my views of the libs saying we won't, and the labs saying they will.


I guess from the sceptics point of view is that Labors answer will once again be to throw cash up against a wall and hope it sticks.

Every person you spoke to back in the day wanted that GFC cash to spend on maintenance and services not new halls. If the folks on the ground (like yourself) had been listened to back then Gonski might not be such a massive animal right now.

It all comes back to whether Labor can be 'trusted' to get it right I guess.

[stopper2]

Firstly you forgot to include 'ivory towers' in your cliche driven post there but anyway your comment is an oft repeated stance by 'the worker'.

All I'm asking is how stopper2 is personally impacted by the party that is in govt.

I mean, people have strong stances on this stuff I just want to know why.

It's a fair question.


1/Entitlements, the Libs have been gunning for years to not only remove double time penalty rates but ultimately all penalty rates.
2/Their constant attacks on the Union movement but completely ignoring big business getting away with paying very small or even no taxes in some cases.
I could go on but really couldn't be bothered, the Libs clearly want to go down the American path, they believ in "trickle down economics" but that doesn't work in reality because of the insatiable greed up the top.

[Jetmaster]

Funny how perceptions change over the years. 10 years ago I was a CPSU loving public servant (with a safe job and pension) who decided that working till I was 65 was terribly beige and would not generate wealth.

Five properties and four businesses later and I can see that the ALP thinks I am middle class welfare scum, even though already I am in a position where I will never need ask for government welfare again - isn't that the point of self funding? Really pissed off with them at their -ve gearing stance - we are not all rich.

And the unions - CPSU whinge whenever there are staff cutbacks in the APS. But if the funding isn't there isn't that what should happen - and have you ever tried to sack someone in the APS who won't do their job? When times are good you employ, when they are bad you cutback. Was so sick of their "join us comrades" propaganda every bargaining agreement time. They did nothing other than whinge and whine about the "workers", their "entitlements" and "eroding conditions".

After 30 years voting ALP I swung big time to the Libs last election - I see no need to go back this time around.

Everything that Kyosaki and Trump predicted is now happening- and as Stopper said that is the way we are headed.

[GazFish35]

Can blame school teachers for literacy issues.

5 5 5

If only it was so simple.
Bit like blaming doctors for Cancer.

[MFKS]

If only it was so simple.
Bit like blaming doctors for Cancer.
Sorry that was just too easy.

You set it up so well it was ready to pull the trigger on

[GazFish35]

I wish I taught kids who were so open to my assistance! ;)

[The Dunster]

My concern isn't literate uni students.
It's illiterate teens who go on to be illiterate adults.

There's links between a nation's education levels and crime rates, health and welfare dependencies.
Educate the population or the population suffers.

I agree the job market has changed significantly, the economy is vastly different now to how it was when the education system was created. Mass manufacturing jobs don't exist like they did and it's no longer as feasible for an illertae low-ses population to find work. The education system needs updating in order to meet the needs of the labour market, so let's do that rather than expect the labour market to go back in time and rely on large volumes of unskilled labour - we can't compete with international markets that way.

And an education is more than just about preparedness for the workforce. Literate, critical hunkers are more likely to make better health choices and reducing the strain on the health system also.

When the supply of labour is growing faster than the demand for labour, and the share of income going to capital is increasing faster than the share to workers - how do you propose that education will help ?

Employment in a mixed capitalist system is an exogenously determined variable whereby there is a level of income compatible with full employment.

Unemployment exists because there is a gap between actual spending and the level compatible with full employment.
The non-governments contribution is essentially endogenously determined by economic activity [ much like the money supply]. People get laid off in downturns and employed when things pick up.... and so on
The government however has the ability to fill the gap between the actual level of spending and the required level of spending.
In other words the government has a choice to create full employment or it can choose not to.

The problem with Gonski is that it does absolutely nothing to create jobs. What is the point of educating someone so they can be unemployed ?

[The Dunster]

1/Entitlements, the Libs have been gunning for years to not only remove double time penalty rates but ultimately all penalty rates.
2/Their constant attacks on the Union movement but completely ignoring big business getting away with paying very small or even no taxes in some cases.
I could go on but really couldn't be bothered, the Libs clearly want to go down the American path, they believ in "trickle down economics" but that doesn't work in reality because of the insatiable greed up the top.

http://oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/trickle-down.jpg

[GazFish35]

What's the point?

It's not solely about producing a workforce.

Any decent education system should also be able to produce functional citizens who can maintain healthy lifestyles, positive relationships and solve problems.

Australia for my mind is also based on the principles of social justice and needs based funding helps address the inequalities that are a reality for many Australian kids dues to inequities they encounter through no fault of their own.

[Jetmaster]

That's what education SHOULD be about Gaz - unfortunately the reality is it is all about creating drones for tertiary education and then the workforce.

The most successful business minds in this world dropped out of school - they are the ones that got it.

[The Dunster]

That's what education SHOULD be about Gaz - unfortunately the reality is it is all about creating drones for tertiary education and then the workforce.

The most successful business minds in this world dropped out of school - they are the ones that got it.

Like Pablo Escobar ?

15 Tonnes of cocaine smuggled into the USA per day at around $300 per gram.
$2500 per month for rubber bands just to wrap the notes into $1000 bundles.

Great role model and more proof an education is a waste of time.

And no I am not taking the piss.

[q-money]

oi dunz where do you work?

[The Dunster]

oi dunz where do you work?

I work in a low wage Clerical position in Newcastle. Why ?

[plague]

That's what education SHOULD be about Gaz - unfortunately the reality is it is all about creating drones for tertiary education and then the workforce.

The most successful business minds in this world dropped out of school - they are the ones that got it.

yeah but this isn't the fault of the teachers themselves.
blame the system sure, but the individuals trying to implement it. nah.

having said that, as an 'uneducated' person, i was steered into my lane by my school teachers who took me aside and pointed out my strengths and weaknesses.
without that guidance i wouldn't be doing what I'm doing, and for that I'm forever grateful.

[plague]

15 Tonnes of cocaine smuggled into the USA per day at around $300 per gram.


yeah look without giving anything away in the US its $100 tops but roughly half that if you buy in any quantity.
in Oz yeah $300-350 is market rate, and its cut to shit and terrible quality.








so I've heard.

[q-money]

I work in a low wage Clerical position in Newcastle. Why ?

always wondered. seem to be the most switched on economic bloke on here, i assumed you must have been richer than hawk or a finance type guy

[plague]

1/Entitlements, the Libs have been gunning for years to not only remove double time penalty rates but ultimately all penalty rates.
2/Their constant attacks on the Union movement but completely ignoring big business getting away with paying very small or even no taxes in some cases.
I could go on but really couldn't be bothered, the Libs clearly want to go down the American path, they believ in "trickle down economics" but that doesn't work in reality because of the insatiable greed up the top.

well look the decision on penalty rates will be made by the independent umpire and both sides have declared they will accept the decision so your vote won't matter there.

i believe there should be a strong union movement because the powerless should always be represented when negotiating with the powerful.

but.

if you think there is one iota of difference between the union bosses and the bosses of big business then you are sadly mistaken.
the same levels of corruption, greed and self interest spread across all levels of power.

we need unions, we need business.

we don't need shitcunce.

they aren't all sitting on one side of the fence.

[plague]

always wondered. seem to be the most switched on economic bloke on here, i assumed you must have been richer than hawk or a finance type guy

I've always been of the opinion if we could get Dunster and VJ in the same room the whole paddlesteamer issue would get sorted over the first half dozen tinnies.

[The Dunster]

well look the decision on penalty rates will be made by the independent umpire and both sides have declared they will accept the decision so your vote won't matter there.

i believe there should be a strong union movement because the powerless should always be represented when negotiating with the powerful.

but.

if you think there is one iota of difference between the union bosses and the bosses of big business then you are sadly mistaken.
the same levels of corruption, greed and self interest spread across all levels of power.

we need unions, we need business.

we don't need shitcunce.

they aren't all sitting on one side of the fence.

Five Star Post.

[The Dunster]

Bit like blaming doctors for Cancer.

4-methylimidazole (4-MEI) is Known to cause cancer.
Dr Pepper contains 4-methylimidazole (4-MEI).

/thread.

[GazFish35]

Anyone who drinks that dr pepper shit deserves anything that comes their way. ;)

[stopper2]

well look the decision on penalty rates will be made by the independent umpire and both sides have declared they will accept the decision so your vote won't matter there.

i believe there should be a strong union movement because the powerless should always be represented when negotiating with the powerful.

but.

if you think there is one iota of difference between the union bosses and the bosses of big business then you are sadly mistaken.
the same levels of corruption, greed and self interest spread across all levels of power.

we need unions, we need business.

we don't need shitcunce.

they aren't all sitting on one side of the fence.

So we are in agreeance here?
You need a balance in all walks of life, once it goes to far to one side problems start to arise.
I know from some stories my father tells me how particularly in the 70's and 80's the Unions could call a strike from the drop of a hat.
Now things have gone too far the other way where employers have the upper hand in many cases.
The neo-Conservative movement which started with the Thatcher government in the late 70's has spread to many countries in the western world, destroying the power of Unions, privatising and selling off everything state owned. If this is the pinnacle of Capitalism, then it certainly is not good.

[plague]

So we are in agreeance here?


oh look man, id be shocked if a great percentage of our population aren't in agreement that union representation is essential for a significant portion of the workforce.

but

the downfall of the argument is some of these unions don't want to be governed under the same rules as corporations despite having access to, and being responsible for massive amounts of money and power. its a dangerous situation when the people in power go unchecked. whether thats a CEO or a union boss its all the same.

also, a huge majority of the union bosses are in the top 1% of income earners in this country. (yes, the top 1%)

but here they are doing a good job at convincing the 'workforce' they are rallying agains the 1%ers despite being front and centre of that group.

id love to see one set of rules for everyone.at the moment there isn't.

[plague]

id actually love to see one freaking tax rate no matter what you earn, be it from business, wage, investments or super.
find the average, tax them all and there can be no grounds for complaint.

having tax rates range from 30%-48% only invites people to try and bend the rules.

and as someone who bends them as far as I can its quite sad what you can get away with in this country (legally) with a half decent accountant.

[The Dunster]

So we are in agreeance here?
You need a balance in all walks of life, once it goes to far to one side problems start to arise.
I know from some stories my father tells me how particularly in the 70's and 80's the Unions could call a strike from the drop of a hat.
Now things have gone too far the other way where employers have the upper hand in many cases.
The neo-Conservative movement which started with the Thatcher government in the late 70's has spread to many countries in the western world, destroying the power of Unions, privatising and selling off everything state owned. If this is the pinnacle of Capitalism, then it certainly is not good.

It's not Capitalism it is a Plutocracy.
Capitalism is a system whereby those that own the means of production seek profits and those that work with the means of production resist wage cuts.
When Neo-Liberalism took away the power of Unions to resist wage cuts the system was broken.
If you look at time series data for wages and productivity you can see that up until the early 1970's wages increase pretty much perfectly tracked productivity gains.
This was good because Capitalists could make more by increasing output, workers made incremental gains in income so they could purchase the output - and overall, both parties had an incentive to work.
From the 1970's gains in productivity have not been matched by increases in wages. Therefore, those working with the means of production have not had incomes sufficient enough to purchase the goods and services produced. The Capitalists, even though they have more money, they also have a much lower propensity to spend and therefore spending is at a lower level than it would have been if those working with the means of production gained their fair share.
By the late 1980's the Neo-Liberals came up with a solution called Financial Engineering which saw credit at levels we had never before seen available to pretty much anyone capable of signing on the dotted line.
Now the Capitalists could have their cake and eat it to and those taking up the credit on offer could pretend they could actually afford the lifestyle they had now become accustomed to.

The big winners in all this - BANKS. Even the capitalists in the traditional sense of the word are an endangered species because once households realise they need to reduce their credit holdings [and this has been happening for a while now consumption spending on anything but essentials has plummeted.

[stopper2]

It's not Capitalism it is a Plutocracy.
Capitalism is a system whereby those that own the means of production seek profits and those that work with the means of production resist wage cuts.
When Neo-Liberalism took away the power of Unions to resist wage cuts the system was broken.
If you look at time series data for wages and productivity you can see that up until the early 1970's wages increase pretty much perfectly tracked productivity gains.
This was good because Capitalists could make more by increasing output, workers made incremental gains in income so they could purchase the output - and overall, both parties had an incentive to work.
From the 1970's gains in productivity have not been matched by increases in wages. Therefore, those working with the means of production have not had incomes sufficient enough to purchase the goods and services produced. The Capitalists, even though they have more money, they also have a much lower propensity to spend and therefore spending is at a lower level than it would have been if those working with the means of production gained their fair share.
By the late 1980's the Neo-Liberals came up with a solution called Financial Engineering which saw credit at levels we had never before seen available to pretty much anyone capable of signing on the dotted line.
Now the Capitalists could have their cake and eat it to and those taking up the credit on offer could pretend they could actually afford the lifestyle they had now become accustomed to.

The big winners in all this - BANKS. Even the capitalists in the traditional sense of the word are an endangered species because once households realise they need to reduce their credit holdings [and this has been happening for a while now consumption spending on anything but essentials has plummeted.

Good post, what you have stated makes a lot of sense Dunster. Yes Banks, expecially the big Banks have been the big winners in this new world order.

[hawk]

The big winners in all this - BANKS.

Dunsts, lets discuss national debt, where the money went (wasnt all on trade), who do we owe and can we write it off if we hand over some uranium, ala Brazil and forests?

or not you egotistical wankerers

[The Dunster]

Not disputing this idea, but I couldn't find good data to test it. The ABS times series don't go back that far.


You need to use the labour Productivity index and wages index data. To complile this data you also need to understand the difference between a stock and a flow, and the difference between a real and a nominal value.

Did your graph come from the ABS or did you create it using data you found on the ABS website ?

This is what you need:

http://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/tables/xls/h04hist.xls
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Lookup/6345.0Main+Features1Dec%202014

Below is this data put together by Billy Mitchell at COffee.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Australia_real_wages_productivity_1978_2010.jpg

Below is the international story

https://anticap.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/productivity-wages-g20.jpg

[The Dunster]

No, I don't need to understand that (even though I do)!

Whether the data is real/nominal is irrelevant because I'm using ABS indices. We're comparing Australian wages and Australian labour productivity. So inflation doesn't matter because, if I adjusted the data to put it into real terms, both datasets would be adjusted equally. It would matter if I was doing an international comparison, as in your graph, but I'm not. And nor do the stock/flow differences matter because, again, I'm using ABS time-series indices that are designed for longitudinal comparisons.

I used the ABS's wage price index data (http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/productsbyCatalogue/3F85BC8B42C2D64ECA257B17000D36FC) and industry multifactor productivity estimates (http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/ProductsbyCatalogue/A834424832179D03CA25739B00158F99) (for labour productivity, I used gross value added per hour worked).



My graph.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disputing your historical point. Australia had a relatively high level of income equality until the late 1970s, but it's worsened since then. But the reasons behind that are pretty complex. Don't ask me to explain why the Australian example in more recent times differs from the international example (as seen in your graph), because I can't. But it is different.

It's not different at all.

Use these: http://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/tables/xls/h04hist.xls
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....res1Dec%202014

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Australia_real_wages_productivity_1978_2010.jpg

The gap explains changes in income distribution away from labour to Capital. Pretty ****ing simple even for someone like yourself.

Solved. Next!!!

[The Dunster]

On reflection, my graph might be improved by looking solely at labour productivity in non-mining industries. A lot of economists say the mining industry's unusual cycle over the past two decades distorted wage/productivity data.

That's been the case forever . As far as a lot of economists go when you agree with the majority of them more often than not you will be wrong.

[The Dunster]

Geez, mate, I don't even disagree with you but you're a goose.

Make your own table using the very data you provided to back up your argument and, voila!, you'll see how f***ing simple it is even for someone like yourself.


To understand the significance of the gap between real wages growth and labour productivity growth the following points should be noted:

Employment is measured in persons (averaged over the period).
Labour productivity is the units of output per person employment per period (in this case per hour).
The wage and price level are in nominal units; the real wage is the wage level divided by the price level and tells us the real purchasing power of that nominal wage level.
The total economy-wide wage bill is employment times the wage level and is the total labour costs in production for each period.
Real GDP is thus employment times labour productivity and represents a flow of actual output per period; Nominal GDP is Real GDP at market value – that is, multiplied by the price level. So real GDP can grow while nominal GDP can fall if the price level is deflating and productivity growth and/or employment growth is positive.
The wage share in national income (GDP) is the share of total wages in nominal GDP and is thus a guide to the distribution of national income between wages and profits.
Unit labour costs are in nominal terms and are calculated as total labour costs divided by nominal GDP. So they tell you what each unit of output is costing in labour outlays.
Real unit labour costs [RULC] are calculated by dividing Unit labour costs by the price level to give a real measure of what each unit of output is costing. RULC is also the ratio of the real wage to labour productivity and is equivalent to the Wage share measure.
From the last point, if real wages growth is above productivity growth then RULC are rising, which is the same thing as saying that national income is being redistributed to wages (workers).

However, if real wages growth is below productivity growth then RULC are falling, which is the same thing as saying that national income is being redistributed away from wages (workers) to profits (capital).

It can get a little more complicated if the share that government claims changes but that is normally stable, which means the dynamics of national income distribution are between wages and profits.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=33031

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Australia_RW_LP_Indexes_1997_December_2015.jpg

I honestly don't know what more I can do to help you here.

[The Dunster]

It would appear I'm not the only one that is getting it all wrong.

https://www.austrade.gov.au/images/carousel/56ee7ae6-4363-45de-bd08-38d47f073d32_BM2016-SECTION-3_pg31.png

Couscous needs to get down to AUSTRADE Headquarters and sort them out as well it would seem.

[The Dunster]

Then we go to the ABC who use some very well known Economic mongs for all their information and low and behold we get this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5480758-3x2-940x627.jpg

Lmfao at Chris Richardson and the other usual suspects the ABC use for their information.

To say this graph is misleading is an understatement to say the least.

The ABC is an absolute disgrace when it comes to the economy and finance.

[The Dunster]

Dunster, go back to your own RBA data. Tell me: in the period for which you have data, how much did wages rise, and how much did labour productivity rise?

Again, I ain't your adversary, so lay off with the purge, comrade.

Holy crap you don't know how the graphic was compiled from the data do you ? Man this is too funny. Unless I posted the wrong link - then it's understandable.

[The Dunster]

http://www.rba.gov.au/statistics/tables/xls/h04hist.xls

The link is correct. Think really hard - there is something you are missing.

Are you looking at hourly real wages and labour productivity per hour ?

[The Dunster]

Sigh. Here you go. Your data, from your spreadsheet. As you can see, trend wage growth is above trend labour productivity.

http://i.imgur.com/XCURkqB.jpg

I'll leave it here. Like I said, I don't necessarily disagree with some of what you said. I was just interested in what the data showed, because I'd heard the opposite about wages and productivity in recent years.

But have a read back at what you've written, comrade. You're a coin-operated ad-hominem machine. I can post your response for you if you like:

"ZOMG he still doesn't get it! I've never suffered such ignorance!"

Nice graph. Not taking the piss here but why didn't you use the index data ? Serious question.

The Real wages index over this period has not increased anywhere near as much as LFP index has.

From the graph I posted above the real wage index and labour productivity indexes have a base year of 1978.

EDIT:I just opened the spreadsheet I linked and note that it doesn't go back to 1978 and is in fact indexed to a base year of 2013/14 rather than 1978 as I had assumed. :blush:

My apologies. I'll be burning all degrees and qualifications before sunset.

[pv4]

It's not Capitalism it is a Plutocracy.

I'm sure this post had some great insights etc but seeing it was a novel, and only read this first sentence, I couldn't help but just instantly think of this :rof:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

[The Dunster]

I'm sure this post had some great insights etc but seeing it was a novel, and only read this first sentence, I couldn't help but just instantly think of this :rof:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

I like your style PV4. Great movie

[The Dunster]

http://www.acting-man.com/blog/media/2015/03/2-house-prices-to-income.png

Both major parties are responsible and I doubt you will even hear a whisper over the election campaign about how to fix this problem for young people looking to own a home.

[q-money]

move to adelaide stupid

[plague]

Both major parties are responsible and I doubt you will even hear a whisper over the election campaign about how to fix this problem for young people looking to own a home.

Yeah I find this an interesting discussion. I am buying at the moment and everything seems to be tied back to supply. Prices in Newcastle are comparable to Melbourne which is ridiculous but all the info we are getting is that there will be a huge correction here in next few years with about 1500 new units to be built (hence an oversupply like in Melbourne).


I mean, in a country like ours how do you legit 'favour' one group of people without it negatively impacting another when it comes to affordability?

the Cameron parks of this world (and people who buy there) are doing more damage to the housing market than any Chinese investors ever could.

[plague]

move to adelaide stupid

At least you'll be able to comfortably afford the house you'll eventually be murdered in.

[The Dunster]

Yeah I find this an interesting discussion. I am buying at the moment and everything seems to be tied back to supply. Prices in Newcastle are comparable to Melbourne which is ridiculous but all the info we are getting is that there will be a huge correction here in next few years with about 1500 new units to be built (hence an oversupply like in Melbourne).


I mean, in a country like ours how do you legit 'favour' one group of people without it negatively impacting another when it comes to affordability?

the Cameron parks of this world (and people who buy there) are doing more damage to the housing market than any Chinese investors ever could.

http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/sep/images/graph-0915-3-10.gif

http://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2015/sep/images/graph-0915-3-09.gif

Pretty much backs everything you said Plague.

[pv4]

the Cameron parks of this world (and people who buy there) are doing more damage to the housing market than any Chinese investors ever could.

I genuinely don't understand this comment, and am extremely interested in an explanation if you've got 5 mins? Very interesting. I know a fair few people in Cameron Park & estates up in Gilleston Heights - would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

[plague]

I genuinely don't understand this comment, and am extremely interested in an explanation if you've got 5 mins? Very interesting. I know a fair few people in Cameron Park & estates up in Gilleston Heights - would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Cameron park (and further west) will end up the same as the western suburbs of Sydney.

People purchased overpriced land on the back of a mining boom, low interest rates and the wank of the 'great Australian dream'. They are taught to believe that 5 bedrooms and a colourbond fence is what builds their equity when really it's just location that matters (and they ain't in a good one).

Give it 10 years when the boom is over, interest rates settle where they 'should' be (7-9%) and all of a sudden disposable income will be tight. It lessens demand for small/medium business, lack of infrastructure (both natural and man made) means that a whole generation of landlocked kids will grow up with not much to do.

The fact you can buy a decent house on a chunk of dirt 10 mins from the centre of the city and some of the most beautiful beaches in the country for $100-$150k less than what these western suburbs homes are 'worth' says everything.

There will be a huge correction one day and if people are leveraged to the hilt out there then it's not good news.

people will then be faced with selling and losing money (in real terms) or staying and dealing with the consequences.
Go look at the suburbs surrounding Maitland that were established 20-25 years ago and their current 'value'. Cause that's what's coming to Cameron Park.

[q-money]

jetskis bro, jet skis

[plague]

Pretty much backs everything you said Plague.

So wouldn't an easy fix be to just increase supply (to a point) rather than legislation on 'foreign' buyers and handouts etc?

State Libs claiming they have increased approvals massively and that state Labor were the ones who stalled it back then.

I have no data if that's the truth but if it is why isn't Turnbull out there ramming this stuff down Shortens throat? It only seems to be a sydney issue regarding affordability but no pollies are offering up anything as a solution?

[hawk]

Cameron park (and further west) will end up the same as the western suburbs of Sydney. People purchased overpriced land on the back of a mining boom, low interest rates and the wank of the 'great Australian dream'. They are taught to believe that 5 bedrooms and a colourbond fence is what builds their equity when really it's just location that matters (and they ain't in a good one). Give it 10 years when the boom is over, interest rates settle where they 'should' be (7-9%) and all of a sudden disposable income will be tight. It lessens demand for small/medium business, lack of infrastructure (both natural and man made) means that a whole generation of landlocked kids will grow up with not much to do. The fact you can buy a decent house on a chunk of dirt 10 mins from the centre of the city and some of the most beautiful beaches in the country for $100-$150k less than what these western suburbs homes are 'worth' says everything. There will be a huge correction one day and if people are leveraged to the hilt out there then it's not good news.
people will then be faced with selling and losing money (in real terms) or staying and dealing with the consequences.
Go look at the suburbs surrounding Maitland that were established 20-25 years ago and their current 'value'. Cause that's what's coming to Cameron Park.

Doom and gloom shock treatment wont work. At worst there,ll be single figure correction and a load of yrs with no growth eg Japs lost decades.

best growth right now for those not in the boys club is from a wage. having 3 jobs wont kill ya, i did it and so did our "privileged" forefathers.

[The Dunster]

So wouldn't an easy fix be to just increase supply (to a point) rather than legislation on 'foreign' buyers and handouts etc?

State Libs claiming they have increased approvals massively and that state Labor were the ones who stalled it back then.

I have no data if that's the truth but if it is why isn't Turnbull out there ramming this stuff down Shortens throat? It only seems to be a sydney issue regarding affordability but no pollies are offering up anything as a solution?

If the investors [ bad choice of word] can be driven out of the market then the supply problem will be lessened somewhat.
Merely, increasing the supply on its own won't do as much because the investors will continue to compete for these properties given the massive tax breaks they can receive.
Reason: the investor class of buyer has a massive advantage over the non-investors as the former's purchase is somewhat subsidized by government and the more they earn the bigger the subsidy.

Overall, greed and laziness make the property market very desirable to the leisure classes of which Shorten and Turnbull are most certainly card carrying members.

[plague]

If the investors [ bad choice of word] can be driven out of the market then the supply problem will be lessened somewhat.
Merely, increasing the supply on its own won't do as much because the investors will continue to compete for these properties given the massive tax breaks they can receive.

Yeah this is legit point I forgot.

So increase supply, gradually reduce negative gearing.
We are getting there.

[plague]

best growth right now for those not in the boys club is from a wage. having 3 jobs wont kill ya, i did it and so did our "privileged" forefathers.

Not all of us are multi millionaires married to supermodels though Hawk.

[The Dunster]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/15/cb/9d/15cb9dd6dfb4a69ddd9d32e72ffab80d.jpg

[Jeterpool]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/15/cb/9d/15cb9dd6dfb4a69ddd9d32e72ffab80d.jpg

Lucky hawk being able to afford manicured gardens*

*I assume from the picture

[hawk]

That darn extension cord is on the road again. get that someone

[The Dunster]

That darn extension cord is on the road again. get that someone

http://archive.meguiarsonline.com/forums/photopost/data/500/BiffWax.jpg

[boz-monaut]

religions preaching hatred towards people of different sexual preferences has it's natural conclusions

gun control played a major part too

this isn't a mental health issue, this is the result of religions preaching hatred and using the mentally ill to spread hatred and murder - like the Lindt cafe moron, like this douchebag, like that stupid child in Parramatta

once you've taken the step towards believing some holy book tells you to hate gays, this sort of thing is inevititable

[plague]

The highlight out of this was everyone else being like "is it a hate crime or is it ISIS" and Fox News is like "WHY CANT WE HAVE BOTH"!!!

On a legit serious note though one thing the last few years of paying attention to US politics, I have developed a genuine soft spot for people defending the right to bare arms.

The loud 1% lunatic fringe can go eat a bag of them but man there's some people putting forward some valid arguments.

[q-money]

next time there's a massacre with a musket ring me up

[plague]

next time there's a massacre with a musket ring me up

#wellactually did you see the cast of 'Hamilton' decided at their Tony Awards performance today they would not use the musket props on stage out of respect for the dead.
So i guess that fixed all that then.

[The Dunster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT47W-C4F8Q

[belchardo]

Kristian rees is standing for a senate seat in SA for PUP. Have we missed this completely?

[skippy]

Can someone give me a TL : DR on who I should vote for?

[plague]

Can someone give me a TL : DR on who I should vote for?

Trump

[hawk]

Can someone give me a TL : DR on who I should vote for?

Abolish State Govts party

[furns]

Can someone give me a TL : DR on who I should vote for?
www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/ (http://www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/)

pretty much explains it all

with pictures

[plague]

www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/ (http://www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/)

pretty much explains it all

with pictures

This was good.
Train guy came out looking the most trustworthy.
I'm voting him.

[skippy]

www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/ (http://www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/)

pretty much explains it all

with pictures

Monorail guy it is.

[GazFish35]

https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/

Enter your postcode or you local member's name and find out how they voted in parliament.
Pretty interesting tbh.

Has entrenched my view that the dude currently in Canberra on my behalf needs to be someone different.

[hawk]

Brexit



Originally Posted by furns View Post
www.theshovel.com.au/head-to-head/

Im struggling to get past Shorten's mullet, rof

[plague]

Brexit


I've nowt bothered with it but after reading a bit today there are some good arguments to leave.

Will be interesting.

[belchardo]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis

great graphic from the Graundian.

anybody else finding this poll count fascinating? or am I really just that sad? :rof:

:popcorn:

[lquiquer]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis

great graphic from the Graundian.

anybody else finding this poll count fascinating? or am I really just that sad? :rof:

:popcorn:

Could have huge impact on foreign footballers if "Leave" wins.....Read somewhere that Kante, Payet and Martial as non established internationals when they joined the premier league would have failed to gain a work permit....

[belchardo]

current count: 48% remain, 52% leave

[hawk]

Bremain

interesting with globalisation leading to social global problems isolationism is back in vogue. Save our kids

[belchardo]

Bremain

interesting with globalisation leading to social global problems isolationism is back in vogue. Save our kids

yes, strong reaction to the perceived and actual excesses of globalisation.

[belchardo]

graundian calling it for leave. chaos to ensue.

[q-money]

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-live-results-and-analysis

great graphic from the Graundian.

anybody else finding this poll count fascinating? or am I really just that sad? :rof:

:popcorn:

perfectly sums up the UK actually

[PC14]

Surely another referendum for Scotland following this!

[lquiquer]

current count: 48% remain, 52% leave

Does that qualify Iceland for the 1/4?......

[q-money]

Surely another referendum for Scotland following this!

you'd think, been absolutely sold up the river here

[hawk]

Scotland just had a chance to become independent and they shat their pants. serves em right

[Jeterpool]

Geez, the vote was so very close.

[PC14]

you'd think, been absolutely sold up the river here

I think we all understand this. However the solidarity in staying in the EU could translate into the votes needed for a break from the UK. There will be a strong argument, based on the changing of the political landscape, for this if the British Parliament choose to follow the people's say in this vote.

[plague]

I think we all understand this. However the solidarity in staying in the EU could translate into the votes needed for a break from the UK. There will be a strong argument, based on the changing of the political landscape, for this if the British Parliament choose to follow the people's say in this vote.

But is there really enough of a vote one way or the other especially considering its non compulsory?

I'd assume cowardly politicians will take this as a perfect example of "oh well, let's sit on our hands a bit longer and see if it goes away".

Saddest bit about it was that there was a dead set political assassination in the middle of all this and it just seems to have been blown over.

[MFKS]

More importantly being that the Labour laws as being part of the EU saw the excessive flood of foreigners into the EPL I take it we will see a new landscape here??

You never know the FA may use this as a chance to push English players and mandate the numbers of non English players in the EPL

[plague]

Lester just showed you can win the whole shit with a British starting XI.

Lester killed the EPL, Brexit is just a convenient excuse for some.

[pv4]

Thinking of voting for this upcoming election: bullet train, derryn hinch, pirate party, and whoever else appeals on the day.

[q-money]

Thinking of voting for this upcoming election: bullet train, derryn hinch, pirate party, and whoever else appeals on the day.

vote early, vote often my friend

[belchardo]

vote early, vote often my friend

Don't forget to draw a penis though.

[plague]

Get on with Hinch and that Lydholm fella that's the full Fundamentalist.
Oz politics needs more of it. Plus enough with the greens, had their chance and blew it.
Fresh start is needed.

[MFKS]

Lester just showed you can win the whole shit with a British starting XI.

Lester killed the EPL, Brexit is just a convenient excuse for some.

They wouldn't be allowed to have Kante

He hadn't played enough for France at the time


Be interesting as it will stop signings like Henry Fabregas at Arsenal CR7 at Man Utd in the future.

Clubs will be able to sign them but not as young talent coming through like they did with these blokes. They will have to wait to they established talent and pay top $$$

[plague]

They wouldn't be allowed to have Kante


Kante was born in S****horpe.
Any true Lester fan knows this.

Pfffft, plastic.

[pv4]

vote early, vote often my friend

Motor voters for lyf

[parksey]

the western world turning on itself

isis has won

[Couscous]

I feel for the Russian people. Why can't they join Europe (or leave it, for that matter)?

[q-money]

I feel for the Russian people. Why can't they join Europe (or leave it, for that matter)?
one in one out at the euro night club m8, the russians can come in, but not in them shoes

not sure it works like the euro videos i've seen though, when it's everyone in for most of the time eh

[The Dunster]

one in one out at the euro night club m8, the russians can come in, but not in them shoes

not sure it works like the euro videos i've seen though, when it's everyone in for most of the time eh

Brings back memories of using serviettes to make a collar for my t-shirt to meet the dress code at a cocktail bar back in the day.

[The Dunster]

Get on with Hinch and that Lydholm fella that's the full Fundamentalist.
Oz politics needs more of it. Plus enough with the greens, had their chance and blew it.
Fresh start is needed.

More importantly though there's no dedicated section on the ballot paper this election for drawing cawks on. it's a disgrace.

http://i.imgur.com/o8m8epm.png

[The Dunster]

Oh. And the referendum in Britain is not binding as there was no Slobs option.

[MFKS]

It is rather funny the fall out from the leftist parasites who lost with the Brexit vote

Calling on old people to be banned from voting
Calling anyone who voted leave bigots
Calling for a revote as they lost


Seems like democracy is only a popular concept when they are on the winning side.

Also seems like the real bigots are being exposed

[plague]

The only thing worse than seeing Shorten front the Labor party is seeing those 2 bozos Tony Burke and Chris Bowen speak to camera.
What a pair of assholes.

[hawk]

Pre poll ftw. No waiting. The senate paper is another tablecloth with every option.

[The Dunster]

The only thing worse than seeing Shorten front the Labor party is seeing those 2 bozos Tony Burke and Chris Bowen speak to camera.
What a pair of assholes.

I wonder what the Liberals are paying them to destroy labour ?

[hawk]

I wonder what the Liberals are paying them to destroy labour ?

Labour jobs are distinct. The Labor Party however might win this

[plague]

Gotta say, the Daily Telegraph has played this campaign to perfection.
Didn't think they'd pull it off.
Credit where it's due though.

[pv4]

Pre poll ftw.

:cool:

[plague]

Pre poll ftw.

Plenty of stories coming out with volunteers going the biff too.
Sounds like the place to be.
Might head down tomorrow to stir the pot.

[hawk]

I need to hear Antony Green announce the winners or its just not official. I also have to ask him "are you free Mr Humphries"

[MFKS]

Scary thought Bill Shorten could be PM in a few hours

FMD

[hawk]

Scary thought Bill Shorten could be PM in a few hours

FMD

could be a hung parliament. Smallest dix ever though

[MFKS]

could be a hung parliament. Smallest dix ever though

Nah man we had Abbott before.

You catch him in his budgie smugglers??

He the winner

[The Dunster]

Both major parties have taken a hammering with a lot of people voting for the smaller / alternative parties.
Labour voters are again in for a long hard battle in opposition as they tossed everything they had into this election and fell a long way short on the primary vote. The next election for labour will be a massive defeat as regardless of the state of the economy they have pretty shown the coalition their hand.
Turnbull on the other hand has done sweet FA in the top job and yet he's survived for another term in office. No doubt Turnbull would feel very confident that he can do as he pleases from now on knowing that Bill Shorten will never beat him in an election.

[Couscous]

yet he's survived for another term in office

I doubt it. This was Turnbull's to lose, and he almost did. Not a soul in Labor expected to win. Shorten's a cardboard man, yet he's pulled off what Laborites thought couldn't be done.

[The Dunster]

I doubt it. This was Turnbull's to lose, and he almost did. Not a soul in Labor expected to win. Shorten's a cardboard man, yet he's pulled off what Laborites thought couldn't be done.

Turnbull got over the line using nothing special to win votes. Shorten unleashed everything he had and still lost. That's the issue. Next time Shorten won't be able to win votes on the back of a Medicare scare campaign and the failures of the real economy don't seem to have to have bothered voters enough either.

What I'd like to see is a graph of the ALP popular vote over the last ten elections to grasp just where Shorten has the ALP positioned.

Note: Beazley's 1998 Election where the ALP received a higher percentage of the popular vote and yet didn't win enough seats. I think this was all on the back of the GST.

Next election the GST bunny was out of the box, the ALP had nothing to attack with [ much like when Medicare is a non issue next election for Turnbull vs Shorten].

[MFKS]

Turnbull got over the line using nothing special to win votes. Shorten unleashed everything he had and still lost. That's the issue. Next time Shorten won't be able to win votes on the back of a Medicare scare campaign and the failures of the real economy don't seem to have to have bothered voters enough either.

What I'd like to see is a graph of the ALP popular vote over the last ten elections to grasp just where Shorten has the ALP positioned.

Note: Beazley's 1998 Election where the ALP received a higher percentage of the popular vote and yet didn't win enough seats. I think this was all on the back of the GST.

Next election the GST bunny was out of the box, the ALP had nothing to attack with [ much like when Medicare is a non issue next election for Turnbull vs Shorten].
Absolute bullshit

Turnbull will be judged on what he does in the next 3 years and nothing else

He has shown himself to be struggling at the job the last 9 months

You put him in a position now where he has to bend over and deal with the minor parties in both the HOF and Senate as he is going to have to do to get everything through and he will suffer more

Look at the shitfight Gillard and Labor had in 2013 with the split Parliament

They had to build unhealthy alliances with the minor parties and struggled as a Government. Come election time a dickhead like Abbott walked it.

If Turnbull wins the next election it will be a ****ing miracle

Shorten will be PM of Australia

It won't be this week but it will be in 2019 guaranteed

[plague]

He has shown himself to be struggling at the job the last 9 months


yeah see this oft parroted line always gets me.
so what exactly what are the things he has 'struggled at' in the job and what exactly were you expecting of him when he inherited the job?

[The Dunster]

Absolute bullshit

Turnbull will be judged on what he does in the next 3 years and nothing else

He has shown himself to be struggling at the job the last 9 months

You put him in a position now where he has to bend over and deal with the minor parties in both the HOF and Senate as he is going to have to do to get everything through and he will suffer more

Look at the shitfight Gillard and Labor had in 2013 with the split Parliament

They had to build unhealthy alliances with the minor parties and struggled as a Government. Come election time a dickhead like Abbott walked it.

If Turnbull wins the next election it will be a ****ing miracle

Shorten will be PM of Australia

It won't be this week but it will be in 2019 guaranteed

5 Star post. Straight to the point - say's what he means. Loving it.

[MFKS]

yeah see this oft parroted line always gets me.
so what exactly what are the things he has 'struggled at' in the job and what exactly were you expecting of him when he inherited the job?

He has done such a good job he actually has made Bill Shorten look like a worthy person to be PM

When he came in after ousting Abbott he had a huge leaf in the opinion polls

He quickly whittled it away as the nation lost confidence in him

He has survived by the skin of his teeth not because of his policies or his leadership but more so in the country has little faith in Labor and Shorten

Look at his speech last night. Carried on like a sore loser. Labor lied with their Medicare campaign.
Well **** me it is politics they all ****ing lie

Short memories they must have in the Liberal party when they have got plenty of milage out of lies themselves at election time

Gee he must have forgotten the Liberals lies about kids being thrown overboard to get themselves reelected

The bloke has achieved nothing.

He stole the PM spot just as Julia did and will meet the same fate as her

Either he will get overthrown just as Julia did by Abbott or Morrison and co

Or he will make it to the next election after stumbling along achieving nothing and see the Liberals get smashed just as Labor did in 2013

[plague]

Except you didn't answer the question.
What part of being the Prime Minister has he 'struggled' with?
Remembering what the job of the PM actually is and the situation he was in when he inherited* it.


*and yes I mean when he knifed the incumbent.

[MFKS]

Policy
Public perception
Election Campaign
Leadership

It is easy to say he has achieved nothing as it is nigh on impossible to find a thing he has done well at

If he had half a brain he called an election 2 months after getting the gig.
He would have walked it

He didn't and ****ed every thing up for his party

[furns]

Turnbulls issue is he is being held hostage by the RWNJ's of the liberals ie your Bernardi's, Christensen's, etc who won't let him push a more centrist agenda for policy direction. They never wanted him in the top job because Abbott was their boy and by hook or by crook they want him back.
LNP is going through exactly what Labor did with Gillard & Rudd, specific sections of their support base backing their pin up boys until the bitter end.
Unless Turnbull can get the entire party in line, he will get rolled. And then Abbott will return and the LNP will get smashed in the next election without Labor having to do a thing. All they will need do is play that 2014 interview Tones did the night before the polls where he said "No cuts no health, education, ABC or SBS". And we all know how that turned out.
I can see a Liberal party split happening down the line unless the right wing pull their heads in for the good of their party.
Entertaining for most of the general public to watch, especially when you remember how smug they all were two years ago watching Labor rip itself apart while trumpeting "That will never happen with us etc etc"

[plague]

Policy
Public perception
Election Campaign
Leadership


Policy? Which policy did he stuff up on?
Because the shit that was clogging the joint up was the same measures that were there before he got in the job.
The DD trigger that he used was an attempt to unblock the drain. He was hampered by senators outwardly saying "until you fix the issue I want then I'm voting everything down". Which is of course NOT the way the system should work (but hilariously of course that person who was causing the calamity got reelected so go figure).
So is it not 'leadership' that he attempted to change a fractured system?
Public perception, well geez, the hippies all loved him because he wasn't Abbott but they were never going to vote for him.
The media running the narrative always have their own favourites. Jones and Oakes having a whinge about Turnbull was all time considering they carried the water for Abbott and Rudd so hard. Of course they were going to be sad.
As with Dunster I too would be fascinated by the % of primary vote he (and shorten) collected because I'd be surprised if it's not bang on the average over the last 50 years.

Again, the campaign is what it is. The media bitched because he didn't do many interviews but that's self interest. He went for a conservative approach, not fire and brimstone or a party hat and clown shoes. Lot of people out there acting that he's done such a shut job but not really pinpointing any real faults.
Just a lot of personal issues which is more on them than it is the PM.

Anyway though. Onto the next bloke then.

[furns]

Labor's primary vote is way down on previous elections, apparently their second lowest since ww2. Reason they picked up so many seats was preference flows due to the massive swings to the minor parties.
Would be nice if the big two recognised that a significant portion of the electorate can't stand either of them, hence the swing away from them in the last few elections. A good reason for the rise of the feral senate imo is the protest vote to keep the two major parties in line.

[furns]

Oh and btw - thanks a bunch Queensland.
You utter c*nts :banghead:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-pauline-hansons-big-senate-win-and-what-she-plans-to-do-with-it-20160703-gpxc2n.html

[plague]

Labor's primary vote is way down on previous elections, apparently their second lowest since ww2. Reason they picked up so many seats was preference flows due to the massive swings to the minor parties.
Would be nice if the big two recognised that a significant portion of the electorate can't stand either of them, hence the swing away from them in the last few elections. A good reason for the rise of the feral senate imo is the protest vote to keep the two major parties in line.

Interesting.
Although your second point kind of illustrates how pointless the protest vote is because it flows back to the big 2 anyway.


Which we can argue the merits of that system all we like but if we accept it for the lower house we can't hate on it bringing Hanson back into the frame.

[MFKS]

Policy? Which policy did he stuff up on?
Because the shit that was clogging the joint up was the same measures that were there before he got in the job.
The DD trigger that he used was an attempt to unblock the drain. He was hampered by senators outwardly saying "until you fix the issue I want then I'm voting everything down". Which is of course NOT the way the system should work (but hilariously of course that person who was causing the calamity got reelected so go figure).
So is it not 'leadership' that he attempted to change a fractured system?
Public perception, well geez, the hippies all loved him because he wasn't Abbott but they were never going to vote for him.
The media running the narrative always have their own favourites. Jones and Oakes having a whinge about Turnbull was all time considering they carried the water for Abbott and Rudd so hard. Of course they were going to be sad.
As with Dunster I too would be fascinated by the % of primary vote he (and shorten) collected because I'd be surprised if it's not bang on the average over the last 50 years.

Again, the campaign is what it is. The media bitched because he didn't do many interviews but that's self interest. He went for a conservative approach, not fire and brimstone or a party hat and clown shoes. Lot of people out there acting that he's done such a shut job but not really pinpointing any real faults.
Just a lot of personal issues which is more on them than it is the PM.

Anyway though. Onto the next bloke then.

The fact that someone was refusing to vote the way the Liberal party wanted is not a case of the system not working at all

It is democracy working at its finest.

That person was elected to represent people on the platform of commitment to pursue certain values and ideals.
When they find themselves in a position of influence it is there right to pursue their goals

They were elected to do this. It is the combined efforts of political parties voting on mass for certain things whether the individual agree with the decision or not which circumvent this democracy the rest of the time.

If he wants to change a fractured system then he should put the Republic question on the agenda again and **** the Senate off

The current systems flaws are there for all to see in the last few elections

We go to just the HOR and let the government run the country and we don't have these problems

The system is already ****ed

On another note

Also anyone who wants to knock Pauline Xenophon etc neglect to accept democracy at work

These people run on things that people in this country identify with whether you agree with their views or not

These people are entitled to be represented

[plague]

The fact that someone was refusing to vote the way the Liberal party wanted is not a case of the system not working at all

It is democracy working at its finest.

That person was elected to represent people on the platform of commitment to pursue certain values and ideals.
When they find themselves in a position of influence it is there right to pursue their goals


Nope.

You are completely wrong in this.
Wrong.
Absolutely wrong.

This is not how the system works.

Each representative is there to vote on the legislation put before them.

To deny a vote on the basis of another non related issue is an abuse of power.

Learn the system.

Again, you are wrong.

[Retro Jet]

Oh and btw - thanks a bunch Queensland.
You utter c*nts :banghead:

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/election-2016-pauline-hansons-big-senate-win-and-what-she-plans-to-do-with-it-20160703-gpxc2n.html

lol at her reaction to the 'Halal pack' comment last night.
Wonder what her stance is on Kosher foods? :blush:

PS All Pauline represents is peoples inner bigot...or the outer one.
Guess dumb phucks need their representatives too.

[MFKS]

Nope.

You are completely wrong in this.
Wrong.
Absolutely wrong.

This is not how the system works.

Each representative is there to vote on the legislation put before them.

To deny a vote on the basis of another non related issue is an abuse of power.

Learn the system.

Again, you are wrong.

Yep so all politicians vote accordingly with how they feel about legislation and never vote on party lines even if they personally disagree with the parties policy??
Ok

Politics is power buddy. When you are Xenophon or Lambie or Windsor or Oakshott etc the cards have been dealt and you have power you use it.

You use it to negotiate what you want.

Every pollie their is elected to get the best deal for their voters.

You rub my back I rub yours etc

[Couscous]

What I'd like to see is a graph of the ALP popular vote over the last ten elections to grasp just where Shorten has the ALP positioned.

Six elections (that's all the AEC website has):

http://i.imgur.com/4QLphH9.png

[Couscous]

Labor's primary vote is way down on previous elections, apparently their second lowest since ww2.

Not quite.

2001 36.0%
2004 35.7%
2007 34.8%
2010 35.9%
2013 31.4%
2016 33.6%

[plague]

Yep so all politicians vote accordingly with how they feel about legislation and never vote on party lines even if they personally disagree with the parties policy??
Ok

Politics is power buddy. When you are Xenophon or Lambie or Windsor or Oakshott etc the cards have been dealt and you have power you use it.

You use it to negotiate what you want.

Every pollie their is elected to get the best deal for their voters.

You rub my back I rub yours etc

again.
you're wrong.
you're not only wrong but you're doing that thing where you don't even read the post before mashing your face against the keyboard in order to get out a hot take.
the system is not designed to work that way.
the fact that pollies use their power to distort it doesn't make it right, and it isn't what I'm saying.


you might want to remember this next time you see a football team park the bus or play long ball football.
i mean the rules re the rules right, you should celebrate the fact teams twist it to their advantage right?
except, yanno, you don't do you?


stop telling on yourself.

[MFKS]

Do the system is fundamentally flawed is that your point??

Because your original point about the rogue politicians the Liberals have to negotiate with to get legislation through is no different to the Government parties voting on part lines

Basically the lot of them are working against how the system is designed

[plague]

Do the system is fundamentally flawed is that your point??

Because your original point about the rogue politicians the Liberals have to negotiate with to get legislation through is no different to the Government parties voting on part lines

Basically the lot of them are working against how the system is designed

The system isn't broken.

If you are trying to pass a supply bill, then that bill and only that bill should be debated and voted on.
You don't use the threat of not passing a supply bill to get money for submarines.
You table a seperate bill to deal with submarines.

Voting along party lines is slightly different because a party's position on an issue should be clearly defined before voting.

changing tact after you're in the room is the dick move, and that's what happened with these senators.

There's a difference.

[MFKS]

So your saying that Xenophon seeing as he has found himself in a position of influence is wrong to take advantage of it and get as much as he can for his constituents and would rather he just sat back and watched the clock tick over until he is eligible for his Government perks whilst doing nothing to better the lives of his fellow countrymen??

Ok

Didn't realise he was voted in just to be a stooge and rubber stamp the government's legislation

[Grimario]

Can we ignore all this shit for a moment and focus on the important stuff?

Like Laurie Oakes doing Sportsbet over.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/federal-election-2016-laurie-oakes-ties-up-bookies-with-multicoloured-offering-20160703-gpxhr0.html

What a legend.

[The Dunster]

Not quite.

2001 36.0%
2004 35.7%
2007 34.8%
2010 35.9%
2013 31.4%
2016 33.6%

I think Furns may have been referring to the two party preferred vote. Easily mixed up for most of us - including myself.

[Bon]

Can we ignore all this shit for a moment and focus on the important stuff?

Like Laurie Oakes doing Sportsbet over.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2016/federal-election-2016-laurie-oakes-ties-up-bookies-with-multicoloured-offering-20160703-gpxhr0.html

What a legend.

:lulzturtle:
What a champion!

[The Dunster]

Six elections (that's all the AEC website has):

http://i.imgur.com/4QLphH9.png

Cheers. Am I reading this wrong or are the National Party making a lot of ground in recent elections ?

[plague]

So your saying that Xenophon seeing as he has found himself in a position of influence is wrong to take advantage of it and get as much as he can for his constituents and would rather he just sat back and watched the clock tick over until he is eligible for his Government perks whilst doing nothing to better the lives of his fellow countrymen??

Ok

Didn't realise he was voted in just to be a stooge and rubber stamp the government's legislation

By god you can be an idiot sometimes Member.

Do some reading.

Then come back.

Please.

[plague]

I mean, you're at 'Tarek will be playing in the State League' levels of ignorance and misunderstanding.

Didn't think you'd reach that peak again, but you're getting there.

[plague]

Cheers. Am I reading this wrong or are the National Party making a lot of ground in recent elections ?

Correct. They picked up and extra seat in the Reps this time (from a Lib member) and Barnaby romped home despite getting the sink thrown at him by Windsor and preference deals.

General consensus is that it's 'true' conservatives returning to the party from former Lib and independent voters.

[plague]

PS All Pauline represents is peoples inner bigot...or the outer one.
Guess dumb phucks need their representatives too.


So you'd rather another Union stooge or former staffer from the private school network taking up a seat?

Agree/disagree with her policy all you want but she's probably the most 'wronged' politician in Australia's history. The fact she is still having a dig says a lot about her.

[PC14]

Except you didn't answer the question.
What part of being the Prime Minister has he 'struggled' with?
Remembering what the job of the PM actually is and the situation he was in when he inherited* it.


*and yes I mean when he knifed the incumbent.

Calling a double dissolution election and not campaigning on the back of the very reason we were at the polls.

[plague]

Calling a double dissolution election and not campaigning on the back of the very reason we were at the polls.

Yes this is a great point and a very valid criticism of the PM and the party at large

but

the narrative was that he 'did nothing' or 'did poorly' in the actual job of PM (hence why opinion polls were turning against him before calling the election).

I was just asking which parts of the PM job he did were that 'poor' that's all.

Anyway by now the Member is furiously typing his 3rd example of the same point he keeps missing so I better get ready for that.

In happier news though **** Mal Brough.
**** that guy.

[Retro Jet]

So you'd rather another Union stooge or former staffer from the private school network taking up a seat?

Agree/disagree with her policy all you want but she's probably the most 'wronged' politician in Australia's history. The fact she is still having a dig says a lot about her.

So that's your generalisation of Labour n Libs too is it?
The media will be rubbing their hands at the prospect of the trash that will be
forthcoming form the things ill-informed mouth.
Don't get me wrong...you get what you vote for and it's simply indicative of
how unevolved a percentage of the population is.

Can't wait for the Pauline lolz thread....should rival the Gypos lolz page (4 years old in 2 days)
numbers in 1/2 the time.

[q-money]

did have to laugh at old mate sammy dastyari inviting pauline down for a halal snack pack, she was absolutely foo ming

[plague]

Don't get me wrong...you get what you vote for and it's simply indicative of
how unevolved a percentage of the population is.



See this is the bit that grates on so many people.
"Oh you voted for herrrrrrrrrr, look how dumb you are".

Ok, so let's talk about all these super smart people. What was their reaction to Penny Wong voting against gay marriage back in the day? Was she labelled a bigot?
What about when Rudd and Gillard both voted against marriage equality? Any 'homophobe' chants get started up on Mt Pious?
What about Plibersek abstaining from a vote at her national conference debating her parties position on boat arrivals? Any shouts of 'racist' from the smarty pants brigade?

Selective outrage, and the levels that get thrown at certain individuals from this group is embarrassing when they themselves seem too stupid to even identify what's happening right under their own noses.

But anyway.

[MFKS]

See this is the bit that grates on so many people.
"Oh you voted for herrrrrrrrrr, look how dumb you are".

Ok, so let's talk about all these super smart people. What was their reaction to Penny Wong voting against gay marriage back in the day? Was she labelled a bigot?
What about when Rudd and Gillard both voted against marriage equality? Any 'homophobe' chants get started up on Mt Pious?
What about Plibersek abstaining from a vote at her national conference debating her parties position on boat arrivals? Any shouts of 'racist' from the smarty pants brigade?

Selective outrage, and the levels that get thrown at certain individuals from this group is embarrassing when they themselves seem too stupid to even identify what's happening right under their own noses.

But anyway.
Good points

What actually got Pauline her reputation was her initial speech in Parliament back years ago.

She asked about government handouts that had gone to an Aboriginal group and the money had disappeared and not ended up going to the programme it was designed to fund

For doing that she was pilloried by the media and both sides of politics as a racist bigot and her questions as to where tax payer money went were swept under the rug when it would appear there is some impropriety going on

No matter what the brainwashed leftist dogs think people like her will always gain traction

Many people feel her way

This country isn't likely to see her type get a majority soon but there is quite a few countries in Europe where the Nationalist Right are not far from gaining power or getting enough of a say in politics to cause issues

[Couscous]

Cheers. Am I reading this wrong or are the National Party making a lot of ground in recent elections ?

(See the note at the bottom in the graph.) My fault: I should have coloured the LNP differently. I lumped the LNP (created in ~2010, replacing the Libs and Nats in Qeeensland) in with the Nationals, which is misleading, as it reduces the Liberal vote and enlarges the Nationals vote.

[The Dunster]

Good points

What actually got Pauline her reputation was her initial speech in Parliament back years ago.

She asked about government handouts that had gone to an Aboriginal group and the money had disappeared and not ended up going to the programme it was designed to fund

For doing that she was pilloried by the media and both sides of politics as a racist bigot and her questions as to where tax payer money went were swept under the rug when it would appear there is some impropriety going on

No matter what the brainwashed leftist dogs think people like her will always gain traction

Many people feel her way

This country isn't likely to see her type get a majority soon but there is quite a few countries in Europe where the Nationalist Right are not far from gaining power or getting enough of a say in politics to cause issues

Taxes don't fund government spending and the left side of the political spectrum has been extinct since long before you were even born.

The party that will be most concerned about Hanson is the Coalition as it's their voters she will be stealing.
By next election the Coalition will simply make Hanson's policies their own [like Howard did] and render her and One Nation irrelevant once again.

[pv4]

What I want to know is where Pauline got her "98% of Australians are against Halal certification". 98% really? I would have genuinely thought it would be at absolute max 50%, with 40% of the rest for it and 10% like me who just don't care slash don't know enough about it to worry or pass genuine judgement on it.

[plague]

What I want to know is where Pauline got her "98% of Australians are against Halal certification". 98% really? I would have genuinely thought it would be at absolute max 50%, with 40% of the rest for it and 10% like me who just don't care slash don't know enough about it to worry or pass genuine judgement on it.

Without 'knowing' for sure I'd say the question went along the lines of:

"do you agree with paying more for a particular product just to appease someone else's religious standards all the while knowing that some of that money may or may not end up in the hands of terrorists".


It's all in the phrasing innit?

[furns]

What I want to know is where Pauline got her "98% of Australians are against Halal certification". 98% really? I would have genuinely thought it would be at absolute max 50%, with 40% of the rest for it and 10% like me who just don't care slash don't know enough about it to worry or pass genuine judgement on it.
She means 98% of the people she asks while cooking their fish n chip order
She calls it 'canvassing the electorate'

[Retro Jet]

http://www.sbs.com.au/comedy/article/2016/07/04/pauline-hanson-converts-islam-after-accidentally-eating-halal-certified-sausage

:rof:


By The Backburner

4 Jul 2016 - 10:05 AM UPDATED 6 HOURS AGO
Shock has raced through the ranks of One Nation this morning following a surprising election victory over the weekend, with leader Pauline Hanson surprising the world by converting to Islam after one bite of a sausage she didn’t realise was halal certified.

Reports suggest Hanson, who had been aggressively campaigning against halal certification, failed to check the certification status of the sausage sizzle at her local polling booth. Unfortunately for Hanson, all it took was one bite of that sweet halal-certified meat and she was immediately converted to a devout and practicing muslim.

“It’s obviously a shock,” one campaign advisor told The Backburner. “I thought we’d run a great campaign based entirely on fear of the other. We were working really well at succeeding by further marginalising Australians who already are regularly at the receiving end of abuse just from practising their religion. For this to happen now - it really messes up a lot of hard work.

"I mean, it seems to be working out fine for her. She was a little confused at first but it was something about that delicious taste of that certified meat that had her studying the Qu’ran later that morning.

“Really, I think it’s helped her. She was a particularly angry and hateful person and she seemed to have found peace and solace in religion. It’s a truly unexpected outcome but I guess we just need to count our blessings on this. It’s terrible for our campaign but we have to ask what’s best for her.

“It’s just a surprise. It’s not like we even believed the crap we were saying! We thought halal certification was essentially like an allergy notice. It’s letting people know that the food has been prepared in a certain way so that they’re able to meet it. Honestly, it didn’t really seem to affect anyone else outside of the people to whom it’s useful. I mean, I know there’s some conspiracy theory stuff but that all seemed pretty whacky. It seemed paying for halal certification was a good business decision because it opened up international markets. Well - at least - this is what I believed before I witnessed Pauline’s sudden transformation.

“Oh well, at least we will have some representation of the Islamic community in the senate. I guess that beats having an unrepentant racist who attempts to demean their very humanity. It’s a good result all-round, I guess.”

[idontwannaplaywithhowey]

Y'all should move to Maitland. We got the Christian Democrats, Rise Up Australia and Citizens Electoral Council all making One Nation present as a more valid option. (Note: I'm a lefty parasite.)

[q-money]

how's that senate paper ffs though, absolutely struggled to get 6 boxes filled there with all the ghoulish monsters on it

[boz-monaut]

I had a screaming child strapped to my chest trying to fill out the senate form, some cranky pensioner old woman next to me getting pissed off that said child was screaming

I think I ended up putting a number 4 in the box for the Illinois Nazi Party

[plague]

I had a screaming child strapped to my chest trying to fill out the senate form, some cranky pensioner old woman next to me getting pissed off that said child was screaming

I think I ended up putting a number 4 in the box for the Illinois Nazi Party

If only there was a 'mandatory euthanasia party'

[MFKS]

how's that senate paper ffs though, absolutely struggled to get 6 boxes filled there with all the ghoulish monsters on it
Got to love how the thing is half a tree wide.

The thing is that big you need both of the ends of it up the walls of your little booth and then have to drag the ****er back and forth to fill out your numbers.

Then they get you to put it in a giant box that holds a grand total of 4 of the ****ers

[Jetmaster]

My election day...

* Half hour queues
* Having wasted paper shoved in your face when you know what you are voting on
* Sausage sizzle, cake stall and coffee truck strategically placed along said queue with no money
* Not enough voting booths and another wait
* 3 people in their 70s trying to find your name, asking for your address again when your wife just got ticked off
* Interminable time to sign and handover both ballots (I did that very job at the same booth in Kevin 07 and no it just gets done cos it always has and is informal if it isn't)
* The struggle to get to the end of the Senate paper to vote for the Sex Party AND now having to number another 5 boxes
* Hitting another sausage sizzle as you leave the hall.

Please, please, please why don't we spend the dosh for online voting?

[Jeterpool]

My election day...

* Half hour queues
* Having wasted paper shoved in your face when you know what you are voting on
* Sausage sizzle, cake stall and coffee truck strategically placed along said queue with no money
* Not enough voting booths and another wait
* 3 people in their 70s trying to find your name, asking for your address again when your wife just got ticked off
* Interminable time to sign and handover both ballots (I did that very job at the same booth in Kevin 07 and no it just gets done cos it always has and is informal if it isn't)
* The struggle to get to the end of the Senate paper to vote for the Sex Party AND now having to number another 5 boxes
* Hitting another sausage sizzle as you leave the hall.

Please, please, please why don't we spend the dosh for online voting?

Our internet couldn't handle it.

[MFKS]

My election day...

* Half hour queues
* Having wasted paper shoved in your face when you know what you are voting on
* Sausage sizzle, cake stall and coffee truck strategically placed along said queue with no money
* Not enough voting booths and another wait
* 3 people in their 70s trying to find your name, asking for your address again when your wife just got ticked off
* Interminable time to sign and handover both ballots (I did that very job at the same booth in Kevin 07 and no it just gets done cos it always has and is informal if it isn't)
* The struggle to get to the end of the Senate paper to vote for the Sex Party AND now having to number another 5 boxes
* Hitting another sausage sizzle as you leave the hall.

Please, please, please why don't we spend the dosh for online voting?

Go do the pre voting in future.

About 8 years ago I was going away on the day of council election. So had to go vote early as we were leaving at sparrow fart and wouldn't be back for a few days

So I had to do it early.

Located the place via the internet and it was an unused building in the Industrial estate on Hillsborough Rd
Went out and done the deed on a Monday

Rocked up. Parked 3 metres from the door.
Walked in there was one other person voting. Got the name ticked off and done the deed and was out the ****ing door and on my way within 3 mins

No ****ing around at schools or what not and parking 3 blocks away after driving around for 10 mins unable to find a ****ing park

The parasites handing out the how to vote shit are less keen

Since that day I make a point of voting early

I just tell them some Bullshit
Like I working
Like I going overseas
Or some other useful excuse

They don't check up on you

This election i voted a week and a bit before. Was getting blood taken at a pathology joint at Charleston Square
Spotted the ****ers across the road. Blood taken and straight over and done.

This was just opportunistic this time

[Grimario]

Do what I did... go interstate. The booth in Hunter Street was basically empty. Same experience as the member. Parked out front, straight in and straight out.

Definitely doing that or pre voting in future.

[pv4]

I early voted Wednesday last week after work at around 4pm. There were a fair few people, more than I expected, doing similar. There were two 70+ elderly couples doing it then too. One of the elderly ladies complained about how busy it was and that she pre-votes to avoid this "hussle & bussle" on the actual election day. The other oldies agreed and frowned at all of us. I then told said lady that she probably should vote during work hours because she probably wasn't doing anything then anyway, where the rest of us in the place all had work uniforms on. Lady was shocked, appalled, said something about "young chaps these days" and I'll probably never see her again, because I hope I actually gave her a pretty good life tip.

[plague]

the more I listen to them the more I'm convinced that One Nation/Xenophon and Hinch in the senate will be a good thing for the country.
There is a good chance they will vote legislation on its merits and do it in the best interest of the country.

[Jetmaster]

Well I read up on prepolling and it looks like the secret is out - the AEC won't check your excuse and are actually happy for more people to use the flexibility. In fact - 2.5 million voters went prepoll this time, which is why it is of such interest in a close election.

A prepoll in Qld says it sold over 700 sausage sangas at PREPOLL ! So it looks like more will be using it from now on and it won't be as quiet.

[q-money]

dear god the state of some of the gronks telling us they don't want to be oppressed or ridiculed for voting one nation.

same with hanson herself. stand by your hot takes, no matter how wrong they are.

[plague]

dear god the state of some of the gronks telling us they don't want to be oppressed or ridiculed for voting one nation.

same with hanson herself. stand by your hot takes, no matter how wrong they are.

Oh man if you want a laugh and to get a better understanding of her appeal/ridicule go read her policy on both marriage equality and Islam.

(To me) one is a quite measured/reasonable discussion on how it should be treated, the other is a rambling collection of nonsense that seems to be written by a crazy person.

i do giggle at Lib voters looking down their noses at Hanson yet just let Corey Bernardi sit over there spitting hot fire out his ass.

[furns]

It's ok - Corey is launching his own RWNJ movement because the Libs aren't quite conservative enough for him. But he "isn't quitting the party".
Will be much like the Republican/Tea Party schism over in US except with less NRA.

[belchardo]

Wilkie and mcgowan have agreed to support libs on supply and confidence.

Also, Americans and guns. :sigh:

[plague]

Also, Americans and guns. :sigh:

nah man.
with celebrities leading the charge I'm sure a rational, peaceful solution is just around the corner...............
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/7fd1ed198d5b882c482384ed524139bd

[The Dunster]

nah man.
with celebrities leading the charge I'm sure a rational, peaceful solution is just around the corner...............
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/7fd1ed198d5b882c482384ed524139bd

Why the hell is Mischa Barton on Hawks boat ?

[plague]

Why the hell is Mischa Barton on Hawks boat ?

Obviously waiting her turn.

[boz-monaut]

Obviously waiting her turn.

https://media.giphy.com/media/9EwnzGNjvmIG4/giphy.gif

[hawk]

sorry, didint know you were out there cmon in

[lquiquer]

It's really not nice in Nice...FFS

[plague]

i mean this RNC has been going one day and its hot fire already.
is it that difficult to find a good speechwriter in a country of 350 odd million?

[furns]

Rather than watch that shitstorm, much better option is to watch the Late Show with Colbert. He is recording his shows live after each day of the RNC. Brought his Colbert Report character back for a segment last night, after going "to the woods" to find him with Jon Stewart :lol:

[Bon]

Rather than watch that shitstorm, much better option is to watch the Late Show with Colbert. He is recording his shows live after each day of the RNC. Brought his Colbert Report character back for a segment last night, after going "to the woods" to find him with Jon Stewart :lol:

HAHA I saw that this morning..
Colbert also crashed the stage at the RNC dressed as a character from the Hunger Games.. (I didn't really get it, as I haven't seen those movies, however it was pretty interesting to see the reaction and him being escorted from the stage)

[furns]

HAHA I saw that this morning..
Colbert also crashed the stage at the RNC dressed as a character from the Hunger Games.. (I didn't really get it, as I haven't seen those movies, however it was pretty interesting to see the reaction and him being escorted from the stage)
He has been doing that Hungry for Power Games segment since his new show started. He basically skewered each candidate as they dropped out of the nomination race.

[plague]

He has been doing that Hungry for Power Games segment since his new show started. He basically skewered each candidate as they dropped out of the nomination race.

Yeah see I never got in on any of those guys shows so I don't think id 'get' the joke.

Besides, laughing at the RNC is filling up too much of my day already.

I mean, those bigoted assholes chose a Queen song to come out to.

Hey, they'd send Freddie Mercury to jail but geez that songs got some pop.

Just a perfect reflection on how out of touch those asshole politicians are.

[furns]

Yeah see I never got in on any of those guys shows so I don't think id 'get' the joke.

Besides, laughing at the RNC is filling up too much of my day already.

I mean, those bigoted assholes chose a Queen song to come out to.

Hey, they'd send Freddie Mercury to jail but geez that songs got some pop.

Just a perfect reflection on how out of touch those asshole politicians are.haha literally one of the first jokes Colbert opened with
"nothing says conservative values like coming on stage to the music of a bisexual Englishman"
:roflz:

[Bon]

:lulzturtle:

[plague]

So if I made a TV show you'd watch Mr Furns?

[furns]

Depends if you have more than one joke ;)

[plague]

Depends if you have more than one joke ;)

Hmmmmm, sounds like a fairly short TV show then.

Besides, I don't really have any material, more so I just throw the banana skins out on the sidewalk and watch people fly.

My man is over in the squad thread still having an argument with himself.

I find that hilarious. But I see how it's not much of a spectator sport.

[plague]

I mean even Third Eye Blind is getting in on this circus.

Third Eye Blind!!!!
Praise Griff what a time to be alive.

[plague]

Ted Cruz should have just stayed home today the world wasn't ready for him to come outdoors.

It's amazing now seeing the delegates turn on these assholes one by one now they aren't flying the flag for their team.

[MFKS]

I mean even Third Eye Blind is getting in on this circus.

Third Eye Blind!!!!
Praise Griff what a time to be alive.
That's an endorsement and half.

They ain't been famous since the Knights had a decent team

[belchardo]

So kevin from brisbane won't be the next UN secretary General.

He would have been shit and virtually no chance of being elected, but surely the government should have at least put his name forward!

[plague]

So kevin from brisbane won't be the next UN secretary General.

He would have been shit and virtually no chance of being elected, but surely the government should have at least put his name forward!

Plenty of examples of petty shit like this in the past.

Also plenty of examples of the new crew looking after the old crew so they in turn get looked after later in life.

Julie Bishop 'bout to get the plum gig of ambassador to Iraq after the next election.

**** em all I say.

[furns]

KRudd has gone full tilt scorned woman on the whole deal too - has released correspondence between him and Malcolm basically showing him going back on his word to support him.

[plague]

KRudd has gone full tilt scorned woman on the whole deal too - has released correspondence between him and Malcolm basically showing him going back on his word to support him.

Geez let's hope he doesn't get those emails confused with him backing Julia, Julia backing him, Bill backing both of them, Turnbull backing Tony, Bronnie backing herself.

A pox on all their houses.

[plague]

I mean generally ex-PM's end up being on the right side of hindsight.
Keating was a ****, now he's a messiah, Howard was out of touch, now he's a statesman etc etc.
But geez no one is ready to let Kev back into the fold are they.

Blokes got funnel webs on his back or something.

[The Dunster]

I mean generally ex-PM's end up being on the right side of hindsight.
Keating was a ****, now he's a messiah, Howard was out of touch, now he's a statesman etc etc.
But geez no one is ready to let Kev back into the fold are they.

Blokes got funnel webs on his back or something.

Keating is an economic illiterate but when it came to taking the piss out of the conservatives during question time he was in a league of his own.
Why he's a messiah today though is puzzling considering he and Hawk were pretty much the force that destroyed the union movement in Australia,

[The Dunster]

We can classify goods and services in an economy as:

1: Wage goods.
2: Non-wage goods.

Labour and workers produce both wage and non-wage goods.

However, a worker / labour will only purchase wage goods and therefore the price of non-wage goods is meaningless to them with respect to their purchasing power.
Therefore, we usually consider a basket of goods when determining changes to the purchasing power of wages.
This has some problems as well and there is often debate about what goods to include and exclude from the basket. But overall, it sort of works out ok.

When we want to know the real value of say for example GDP we will apply a deflator which reflects the changes in the prices of both wage and non-wage goods.

Lots of different methods to do this that have long since left my mind but the conclusion will always be the same.

Real wages are determined with respect to a basket of goods and Real Income [GDP] is determined by the changes in prices of all goods .

Hence you need to use a different type of index / deflator depending on what it is you are measuring. Simply applying the one method to wages and GDP is unsound because it will include items wage earners never buy or indeed exclude non-wage goods that non-wage earners will buy.

Oh.. I retired on Friday so I have a little too much time on my hands these days........ will probably do a John Farnham within a couple of years due to boredom and the need to grind away at myself.


Carry on.

[belchardo]

congrats on the retirement Dunster.

what's the definition (and examples) of wage/non-wage goods? since you've got time on your hands.

[belchardo]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/01/nt-juvenile-detention-brian-martin-stands-down-as-royal-commissioner

well, this is going well.

[plague]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/aug/01/nt-juvenile-detention-brian-martin-stands-down-as-royal-commissioner

well, this is going well.

It's only a finger pointing exercise.
Nowt will get solved.
May as well chuck Pat O'Shane in the chair and really ram home how bad the white man is.

[plague]

1. Inquiries into indigenous affairs.
2. Tax reform.
3. Hyundai A-League football in the future reports.

Lump em all in together.
Hand wringing horseshit at its finest.

[The Dunster]

congrats on the retirement Dunster.

what's the definition (and examples) of wage/non-wage goods? since you've got time on your hands.

Nuclear Reactors, tanks, Jets, Ships, ICBM's.... and so on are non-wage goods. We use wage labour to create them but those that create the product more often than not will never purchase it.

Wage goods are things wage labour produces and purchases like food, drinks, clothing, cars, houses.....and so on.

The mathematical and statistical significance of all this is well beyond me though and better left to others with greater brain power.

[Jetmaster]

So.....Census next week.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-01/census-2016-why-are-people-worried-about-the-census/7678198

Thoughts?

[Jeterpool]

So.....Census next week.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-01/census-2016-why-are-people-worried-about-the-census/7678198

Thoughts?

Count me in

[pv4]

How come they can get the census online, but can't do online voting for elections? Online elections would save so, so much money. I know someone who every election works as a vote counter, and she gets paid $42 an hour to do it!

I'm all for an online census, but my big question is why we have to wait until the night of August 9 and can't just do it when we please over the next week. Surely come next Tues night when we're all logging on to do the census, the servers are going to crash or be stupidly slow?? Sounds like a disaster in the making tbh. I've already got enough server issues with the fxxxing loading screen of Pokemon Go ffs (inb4 Jeterpool)!

[Jetmaster]

This is your chance to make "Griffology" a documented religion btw!

[The Dunster]

This is your chance to make "Griffology" a documented religion btw!

Given that Griffo actually exists and has performed miracles wouldn't that disqualify him from being a documented religion ?

[plague]

I mean we're all in consensus now that Sarah Hansen Young is the biggest ****wit of them all yeah?

What a clown.

[The Dunster]

I mean we're all in consensus now that Sarah Hansen Young is the biggest ****wit of them all yeah?

What a clown.

http://www.hellashriners.org/images/stories/2015/ClownsAtImperial.jpg

Looks like the Greens have called a special pre-census meeting

[plague]

http://www.hellashriners.org/images/stories/2015/ClownsAtImperial.jpg

Looks like the Greens have called a special pre-census meeting

This is fantastic.

[skippy]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/wake-up-aussies-farright-pauline-hanson-supporters-dressed-as-muslims-storm-church-20160814-gqsclh.html

Dickheads, oh they were from the Central Coast well I'm not really surprised.

[plague]

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/wake-up-aussies-farright-pauline-hanson-supporters-dressed-as-muslims-storm-church-20160814-gqsclh.html

Dickheads, oh they were from the Central Coast well I'm not really surprised.

As shitful as the behaviour was, the continual linking of any thing like this to 'the resurgence of Pauline Hanson' is just as shitful.

Fairfax journo would have dead set run out of breath in the rush to print that headline.

[The Dunster]

As shitful as the behaviour was, the continual linking of any thing like this to 'the resurgence of Pauline Hanson' is just as shitful.

Fairfax journo would have dead set run out of breath in the rush to print that headline.

True but I mean what is the world coming to when you can't be critical of another persons imaginary friend ?

[plague]

Yeah look the protest was fine by me, whatever floats those dudes boats. But doing it inside and with the megaphone was a bit over the top.

Also in the vid there are some real nervous peeps up the back who got the hell out of dodge the first sign of trouble.

$10 says they thought a massacre was coming. Which I guess ain't real funny.

[The Dunster]

Yeah look the protest was fine by me, whatever floats those dudes boats. But doing it inside and with the megaphone was a bit over the top.

Also in the vid there are some real nervous peeps up the back who got the hell out of dodge the first sign of trouble.

$10 says they thought a massacre was coming. Which I guess ain't real funny.

I was actually taking the piss. Trespass is a serious offence and should be dealt with accordingly.

[MFKS]

Interesting how the Pollies are trying to block the Adam and Steve plebiscite


Seems they want the voting done in Parliament where they can control what happens

If so many of the population are in favour of Adam and Steve getting married then what is there to be afraid of letting the people vote??

Or is it a case of the bullshit left agenda being completely full of shit that the people want same sex marriage??

I am thinking the polling on this isn't ****ing close to accurate and that's why the pollies are running scared of letting the people vote on it

[furns]

Interesting how the Pollies are trying to block the Adam and Steve plebiscite


Seems they want the voting done in Parliament where they can control what happens

If so many of the population are in favour of Adam and Steve getting married then what is there to be afraid of letting the people vote??

Or is it a case of the bullshit left agenda being completely full of shit that the people want same sex marriage??

I am thinking the polling on this isn't ****ing close to accurate and that's why the pollies are running scared of letting the people vote on it
Because the party administering the plebiscite is being highjacked by the hard-right who dont want it to pass. Your Cristensens, Bernardis and the rest of their RWNJ cabal have already said that they dont intend to vote in favour of amending the Marriage Act regardless of the result of the plebiscite, and Lyle Shelton from the Religious Zealots Alliance is already lobbying to have the discrimination act watered down so he doesnt get done for hate speech during the leadup to the plebiscite. So a poisonous divisive campaign where a section of society will be demonised in all sorts of awful ways for weeks on end, and then at the end of it it can get vetoed down even if the majority of australians vote for it. All for the measly cost of $160m+.
Yep, a bargain that.
And lets not forget we wouldnt even need to amend the Marriage Act if little Johnny H didnt sneakily redefine it as "man and woman" in 2004. Didnt need a plebiscite for that, shouldnt need one to change it back. Get it out in the open and done in parliament with a free vote and move on ffs. Cant believe in this day and age that the vocal minority still manages to hijack the conversation in this country.

[plague]

Because the party administering the plebiscite is being highjacked by the hard-right who dont want it to pass. Your Cristensens, Bernardis and the rest of their RWNJ cabal have already said that they dont intend to vote in favour of amending the Marriage Act regardless of the result of the plebiscite, and Lyle Shelton from the Religious Zealots Alliance is already lobbying to have the discrimination act watered down so he doesnt get done for hate speech during the leadup to the plebiscite. So a poisonous divisive campaign where a section of society will be demonised in all sorts of awful ways for weeks on end, and then at the end of it it can get vetoed down even if the majority of australians vote for it. All for the measly cost of $160m+.
Yep, a bargain that.
And lets not forget we wouldnt even need to amend the Marriage Act if little Johnny H didnt sneakily redefine it as "man and woman" in 2004. Didnt need a plebiscite for that, shouldnt need one to change it back. Get it out in the open and done in parliament with a free vote and move on ffs. Cant believe in this day and age that the vocal minority still manages to hijack the conversation in this country.

They voted on it a few years back and it was rejected. In fact champions of the left Rudd and Gillard voted no (shorten and Turnbull voted yes). Stop making out one side of this debate is so damn righteous.

This isn't a simple left/right issue.

If Turnbull changes his mind then Shorten (rightfully) screams "broken election promise" just like Gillard and Abbott both copped, and look how those broken promises nailed their chances of hanging onto the top job.

Turnbull is trapped, and it's got nowt to do with Bernardi and the other nutters.

You are getting a plebiscite, so campaign for your side and scream louder for your team than the people you disagree with.

[plague]

and you might wanna check Penny Wongs record when it comes to voting on the issue.
She's the loudest mouth out there at a convenient time when her vote is not needed.

[MFKS]

Because the party administering the plebiscite is being highjacked by the hard-right who dont want it to pass. Your Cristensens, Bernardis and the rest of their RWNJ cabal have already said that they dont intend to vote in favour of amending the Marriage Act regardless of the result of the plebiscite, and Lyle Shelton from the Religious Zealots Alliance is already lobbying to have the discrimination act watered down so he doesnt get done for hate speech during the leadup to the plebiscite. So a poisonous divisive campaign where a section of society will be demonised in all sorts of awful ways for weeks on end, and then at the end of it it can get vetoed down even if the majority of australians vote for it. All for the measly cost of $160m+.
Yep, a bargain that.
And lets not forget we wouldnt even need to amend the Marriage Act if little Johnny H didnt sneakily redefine it as "man and woman" in 2004. Didnt need a plebiscite for that, shouldnt need one to change it back. Get it out in the open and done in parliament with a free vote and move on ffs. Cant believe in this day and age that the vocal minority still manages to hijack the conversation in this country.
160 million??

The ****ers in Canberra waste that amount several times a week

Seems like a bargain to me

Be interesting to see how the people actually think about this issue rather than the bullshit being shoved down people's throats by the atheist lefties out there who have been claiming loudly that everyone wants gay marriage without any proof to back their claims up


You are right a vocal minority has managed to hijack the conversation in this country.

What really is a nothing issue sure gets a lot of attention. Of all the things that are wrong in this country that need fixing and letting Adam and Steve get married is apparently right at the top of the list.FMD

Can thank the artist lefties out there for this one

[furns]

They voted on it a few years back and it was rejected. In fact champions of the left Rudd and Gillard voted no (shorten and Turnbull voted yes). Stop making out one side of this debate is so damn righteous.

This isn't a simple left/right issue.

If Turnbull changes his mind then Shorten (rightfully) screams "broken election promise" just like Gillard and Abbott both copped, and look how those broken promises nailed their chances of hanging onto the top job.

Turnbull is trapped, and it's got nowt to do with Bernardi and the other nutters.

You are getting a plebiscite, so campaign for your side and scream louder for your team than the people you disagree with.
Correct, but that was in 2012. The debate has moved on in leaps and bounds since then.
And its not really "my side" being that I'm heterosexual, but I dont see any issue with the Marriage Act being amended.
And Turnbull is trapped and its all to do with the nutters. All he has to do is change the party stance on the plebiscite to a free vote in parliament and the hard right will turf him out quicker than you can say "Tony Abbott". He is holding onto the office of PM by a thread, stepping out on a divisive issue will kill his leadership. Again.

[furns]

160 million??

The ****ers in Canberra waste that amount several times a week

Seems like a bargain to me

Be interesting to see how the people actually think about this issue rather than the bullshit being shoved down people's throats by the atheist lefties out there who have been claiming loudly that everyone wants gay marriage without any proof to back their claims up


You are right a vocal minority has managed to hijack the conversation in this country.

What really is a nothing issue sure gets a lot of attention. Of all the things that are wrong in this country that need fixing and letting Adam and Steve get married is apparently right at the top of the list.FMD

Can thank the artist lefties out there for this one
lol
Or another way of looking at it is most people are now in favour, but the constant efforts of the religious nutters to quash the whole thing is what keeps it in limbo rather than just allowing parliamentarians to do their bloody job and vote on an issue of amending a piece of legislation according to the wishes of their constituents.
And for such a nothing issue, you see no problem in spending $160mil on it? Id hate to see what you'd spend on something more important.

[plague]

Correct, but that was in 2012. The debate has moved on in leaps and bounds since then.
And its not really "my side" being that I'm heterosexual, but I dont see any issue with the Marriage Act being amended.


Yeah but the debacle in 2012 showed you all you need to know about trusting politicians to do the right thing by their constituents.

As recently as last year Wong (again) and Plibersek abstained from voting at their conference on alyssum seekers despite being front and centre in the media whenever there was a photo op to be had.

Id much rather the vote be handled by the public than trust these pricks to do the right thing.

I disagree with Bernardi on pretty much everything but have way more respect for him as a representative of the people because at least he declared his hand and sticks to it.

Heaven help these assholes take a policy to the election, get it voted on then stick with it rather than chop and change every time the wind blows (royal commission into NT detention anyone?)

[plague]

Oh and for the record I'd prob not base my vote on my parliamentary rep on their views on marriage equality, but would def vote yes in a plebiscite.

[MFKS]

lol
Or another way of looking at it is most people are now in favour, but the constant efforts of the religious nutters to quash the whole thing is what keeps it in limbo rather than just allowing parliamentarians to do their bloody job and vote on an issue of amending a piece of legislation according to the wishes of their constituents.
And for such a nothing issue, you see no problem in spending $160mil on it? Id hate to see what you'd spend on something more important.
160 million
I actually would not be surprised if the Plebiscite actually got knocked back.

I don't think the numbers in support of Adam and Steve are anywhere near as strong as the aethist lefties would have us believe

For 160 million it will be quite a ****ing laugh if it gets knocked back.


Make no mistake about it the pollies in favour of Adam and Steve don't want this going to a Plebiscite as they know it isn't a for gone conclusion to get up

[hawk]

lol
Or another way of looking at it is most people are now in favour, but the constant efforts of the religious nutters to quash the whole thing is what keeps it in limbo

oops, it's against the law to insult on the basis of religion. spaghetti hats havent hurt anyone man

[The Dunster]

Why are people wanting to legalize Gay and Lesbian marriage ? Haven't these people suffered enough already ?

[furns]

Why are people wanting to legalize Gay and Lesbian marriage ? Haven't these people suffered enough already ?lol - ever been to a gay wedding? I hear they're marvellous.