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the_butcher
16-04-2019, 03:21 PM
How many years has it been running for? 7 years or so? Is 7 years long enough to make a judgement?

Has it produced any quality players? I'm not talking about those that are good at NPL level because we have produced hundreds of those for decades without the EJP.

Note: I'm talking about the EJP/Academy as one.

TXK
20-04-2019, 05:07 PM
How many years has it been running for? 7 years or so? Is 7 years long enough to make a judgement?

Has it produced any quality players? I'm not talking about those that are good at NPL level because we have produced hundreds of those for decades without the EJP.

Note: I'm talking about the EJP/Academy as one.

No

380
20-04-2019, 05:25 PM
Nothing to do with producing players. It is a revenue stream first and foremost

Sideline
20-04-2019, 09:57 PM
Nothing to do with producing players. It is a revenue stream first and foremost

Exactly this anyone that thinks otherwise is a clown

Aegon
23-04-2019, 10:41 AM
I think everyone above is being very harsh. Even academies at some of the best clubs in the world struggle to produce players with the ability to get into their first team.

The A league is at a lower level than foreign leagues admittedly but I think the academy has produced more graduates into the first team than expected.

The biggest question that needs to be answered first of all is how is success measured? In discussions with others personally, it seems that there is unrealistic expectations on how often high level players should be produced.

Add to the above that the youth development programs have changed several times in the last 5-10 years.

Hunter403
23-04-2019, 02:41 PM
Jets youth should play in the Sydney NPL comp in their own age group. From what I have seen, playing up an age in the local comp does them no favours.

Dontknowmuch
23-04-2019, 03:08 PM
Jets youth should play in the Sydney NPL comp in their own age group. From what I have seen, playing up an age in the local comp does them no favours.


If it started 7 years ago, then the oldest to go right through the system would only be 15 assuming they had U9's that year, how many of them are still in the system. How many that have passed through in those 7 years have made it to professional football. I'm not sure how many if any have but I know the number would be no where near the amount from this area that made it to professionalism prior to putting all the most talented kids together in the same team and nothing else.

Dumbest move I have ever seen and Newcastle Football will pay for it for many years to come. Way to many former Jets youth players either not playing or just kicking around with mates in the lower leagues. There drive has always been to create an outstanding individual and the funny thing that outstanding kid more than likely would have been whether he was training on synthetic 5 times a week or kicking a ball around in his backyard at home and playing club football on the weekends.

Negative Police
23-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Jets youth should play in the Sydney NPL comp in their own age group. From what I have seen, playing up an age in the local comp does them no favours.

I think this also. Put them in the front line for State comparison. If they cant make it from here they never will.

Negative Police
23-04-2019, 03:37 PM
I'm not sure how many if any have but I know the number would be no where near the amount from this area that made it to professionalism prior to putting all the most talented kids together in the same team and nothing else.

There drive has always been to create an outstanding individual and the funny thing that outstanding kid more than likely would have been whether he was training on synthetic 5 times a week or kicking a ball around in his backyard at home and playing club football on the weekends.

Why is this. Why do players make it in spite of these nnsw systems?

Do we have the talent but not chosen because they arent in the Sydney or Melbourne system

MFKS
27-04-2019, 07:56 PM
Maybe the system isn't good enough??

Watch the Jets Yoof teams they play the same BS system every year regardless

The way they play works really well when they get on top and win the game but put them in a situation where they have to BATTLE and they don't know how to do it.
This to me is the EJ program failing
They need to be taught to fight more than they are

Bread n Butter result in world football is a 1-0 win
I would guess the Jets Yoof team have had less than 10 of these in 7 years

That to me is the problem. Coaches are happy if they play structure and do what is wanted as opposed to the only important KPI the scoreboard

Aegon
30-04-2019, 10:29 AM
Why can't the Jet Youth team play in the NPL finals?

It seems like that would have a huge impact on motivation for players? Almost like at the most important age for taking the next step in their development that they are playing in a non competitive environment?

TBF - why bother playing in the NPL at all?
Revamp the NYL set up to be played as a curtain raiser to the A league games. A full season playing against the other best youth in the country?

Jardelsimage
30-04-2019, 11:34 AM
Why is this. Why do players make it in spite of these nnsw systems?

Do we have the talent but not chosen because they arent in the Sydney or Melbourne system

we have the talent, the problem is that some parents cant afford the fees, some can.
EJ teams should be chosen on outright ability not who's parents can pay the fee's.

Goatscheese
30-04-2019, 10:11 PM
we have the talent, the problem is that some parents cant afford the fees, some can.
EJ teams should be chosen on outright ability not who's parents can pay the fee's.

Exactly one of the biggest reasons why we aren't developing a lot of A-league and above talent. Soccer is fast becoming a rich man's sport in this country. Other countries top teams don't charge anything to their young players, sign them on a contract, sell them and pay for your academy that way. Ajax sends a bus around to collect players bring them to training and drops them back off again so not even the parents have to worry about being able to get them to training

MFKS
01-05-2019, 07:05 PM
Exactly one of the biggest reasons why we aren't developing a lot of A-league and above talent. Soccer is fast becoming a rich man's sport in this country. Other countries top teams don't charge anything to their young players, sign them on a contract, sell them and pay for your academy that way. Ajax sends a bus around to collect players bring them to training and drops them back off again so not even the parents have to worry about being able to get them to training

But that also shows the short.coming of the HAL and the franchises

Not one of them shows any interest in developing players to actually on sell for transfer fees

Transfer fees are someone what of a bonus that occasionally falls in a clubs lap by fortune

We as a nation should be regularly on selling talent off shore

Problem is the model is flawed and we show no interest in it at all

How many million $ transfer fees have been received by HAL sides??

Can't be many in 15 years

plague
01-05-2019, 09:50 PM
We as a nation should be regularly on selling talent off shore


its the chicken and egg thing though innit?

Our youth is nowhere near the level of other nations is it? who wants to pay good money for something they can get from Asia/Africa (and dare we say middle east) now.


but


where does the money come from to improve the youth talent in the country.

You hate that the parents pay for it.
the governing body doesnt have the money.
the clubs dont have the money.


so where does it come from?

hopefully the clubs, once they take over the league, make it worthwhile to themselves to develop, and sell, their talent.
i fear its the only way forward.

but is everyone hating on that method too?

plague
01-05-2019, 09:52 PM
How many million $ transfer fees have been received by HAL sides??

Can't be many in 15 years


remember that time we got that undisclosed transfer fee for all those players Middleby sold off?


got to be at least $20 bazillion right? They didnt want to tell us so the other clubs didnt get jelly.

The Dunster
02-05-2019, 08:03 AM
so where does it come from?

hopefully the clubs, once they take over the league, make it worthwhile to themselves to develop, and sell, their talent.
i fear its the only way forward.



You are 100% right. The only issue is if clubs choose to take the easy money[ ripping off parents with kids that will never cut it] or playing the long game and taking on the risk that they will be able to develop top level talent.

Clubs have done it in the past - no reason why we can't again.

However, I don't think we have the balance of technically gifted players and those with a winning at all costs mentality right just yet.

A Kaz Patafta / Matt Simon hybrid is probably what we should be aiming for.

Instead it seems like we are trying to turn every kid into a Kaz Patafta.

Aegon
02-05-2019, 10:09 AM
An ongoing issue I have been told about (no first hand experience) is that in playing in an age group higher, the Jets youth program lean toward selecting larger boys based on physical characteristics over boys who are at a higher level of technical competence.

Does this have any truth to it?

If so, it seems a short term gain at the expense of developing players with a higher level of potential.

MFKS
02-05-2019, 11:12 AM
its the chicken and egg thing though innit?

Our youth is nowhere near the level of other nations is it? who wants to pay good money for something they can get from Asia/Africa (and dare we say middle east) now.


but


where does the money come from to improve the youth talent in the country.

You hate that the parents pay for it.
the governing body doesnt have the money.
the clubs dont have the money.


so where does it come from?

hopefully the clubs, once they take over the league, make it worthwhile to themselves to develop, and sell, their talent.
i fear its the only way forward.

but is everyone hating on that method too?

Why is money the answer??

Plenty of places on the planet produce footballers with very little cash spent on the process

How about change of mentality being the issue

Why keep recycling your Appuahs Hooles Nick Wards etc instead of playing the youth ??

That the key problem

How many managers out there give minimal opportunity to playing kids when there is no threat of relegation


Clubs in the NSL use to have an interest in getting transfer fees

Why has this now stopped under Lots failed franchise league model??

plague
02-05-2019, 11:33 AM
Why is money the answer??

Plenty of places on the planet produce footballers with very little cash spent on the process


where are these places?

also, everything costs money. these kids gonna just wake up one day with the skills of Griff?

Facilities cost money, equipment costs money, coaching costs money, sports science costs money, travel costs money.
all of it costs money.

Aegon
02-05-2019, 01:04 PM
where are these places?

also, everything costs money. these kids gonna just wake up one day with the skills of Griff?

Facilities cost money, equipment costs money, coaching costs money, sports science costs money, travel costs money.
all of it costs money.

Too true, just look at New Lambton Juniors this year, they have to train some teams on the hockey fields as they don't have enough fields to cater for the number of players they have.
There simply isn't enough money in Australian football to support junior development as it is don in other codes.

We aren't other countries, we're our own and we have to deal with our own problems. Whilst our systems are far from perfect, too many armchair critics make a much bigger deal about how bad it is than is truly the case.

MFKS
02-05-2019, 01:52 PM
where are these places?

also, everything costs money. these kids gonna just wake up one day with the skills of Griff?

Facilities cost money, equipment costs money, coaching costs money, sports science costs money, travel costs money.
all of it costs money.

Costs? ?

Going outside and kicking a ball about is free you know??

For all the money spent on academies and specialised coaching in Oz what does it provide for us??

Sweet **** all

Nations with a fraction of our spending are producing superior talents as money isn't required


What you harped on about money facilities sports science training equipment etc shows exactly where this sport is ****ed in this country

It all about money and people wanting to squeeze money from the game for self benefit at all costs

plague
02-05-2019, 02:03 PM
Member gonna pick the next world cup squad by getting coach to cruise the neighbourhoods and see who is evading the Hills Hoist at an acceptable level.

Sounds rational.

Macca
02-05-2019, 02:11 PM
What we really need is to strip a couple of generations of the population of all money and standard of living, remove all employment prospects, drop them a soccer ball per family and have the local soup kitchen showing replays of the Jets' GF victory on repeat.

Too easy. Next problem?

Aegon
02-05-2019, 02:55 PM
Costs? ?

Going outside and kicking a ball about is free you know??

For all the money spent on academies and specialised coaching in Oz what does it provide for us??

Sweet **** all

Nations with a fraction of our spending are producing superior talents as money isn't required


What you harped on about money facilities sports science training equipment etc shows exactly where this sport is ****ed in this country

It all about money and people wanting to squeeze money from the game for self benefit at all costs

Nations with a fraction of our costs, bureaucracy, etc, etc as well.

Also how many of these players you speak of have gone from playing on the street to playing professionally without also being picked up by an academy, etc?

Lets look at a couple of great players from the current or past......

Modric - Started at a sporting academy at 7 YO

Kaka - São Paulo Academy at 8 YO

Neymar - Santos Academy at 11 YO

Aguero - Independiente Academy 9 YO

Suarez - Urreta FC academy at 7 YO

Iniesta - Barcelona youth academy at 12 YO

Zidane - Cannes at 14 YO

These players almost universally have their abilities identified at a young age and are provided training at a high standard. Yes practicing at home or the park constantly will help but at some stage they need something more than that.

How many other players came through those same academies at the same stage and did not become professional footballers? I would say the vast majority and these countries have more kids playing football than we do in Oz.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think our academies should be capable of churning out national or world class players regularly.

MFKS
02-05-2019, 10:29 PM
Nations with a fraction of our costs, bureaucracy, etc, etc as well.

Also how many of these players you speak of have gone from playing on the street to playing professionally without also being picked up by an academy, etc?

Lets look at a couple of great players from the current or past......

Modric - Started at a sporting academy at 7 YO

Kaka - São Paulo Academy at 8 YO

Neymar - Santos Academy at 11 YO

Aguero - Independiente Academy 9 YO

Suarez - Urreta FC academy at 7 YO

Iniesta - Barcelona youth academy at 12 YO

Zidane - Cannes at 14 YO

These players almost universally have their abilities identified at a young age and are provided training at a high standard. Yes practicing at home or the park constantly will help but at some stage they need something more than that.

How many other players came through those same academies at the same stage and did not become professional footballers? I would say the vast majority and these countries have more kids playing football than we do in Oz.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous to think our academies should be capable of churning out national or world class players regularly.

Nearly all them academies you mentioned are run on the smell of an.oily rag money wise and have piss poor facilities compared to the likes the EJ have out at Speeds Point

As for your last point Croatia has a population of approx 4 million
They ain't wealthy by any stretch of the imagination
They regularly produce world class footballers and just played in the WC Final last year

To claim that we can't be producing world class talent regularly when they can with less resources than we have is the most ridiculous thing that you have written


We in.reality are just poor at what we do

Aegon
03-05-2019, 08:19 AM
So first players don't need academies....... now they do need academies but its about budget?

Isn't that basically what Plague said and you disagreed?

Negative Police
03-05-2019, 05:41 PM
Member gonna pick the next world cup squad by getting coach to cruise the neighbourhoods and see who is evading the Hills Hoist at an acceptable level.

Sounds rational.

Youtoob clips can do the rest

londonboy
28-08-2019, 07:34 PM
https://www.newcastlejets.com.au/news/jets-academy-enters-partnership-hunter-sports-high-school

This is interesting, particularly the bit about encouraging kids in the program to attend the school. I wonder what happens if the kids parents refuse???

Imyourhero
28-08-2019, 08:02 PM
oh ffs

Bremsstrahlung
28-08-2019, 08:13 PM
Nope.
Fark that.

I wouldn’t hedge my kids education on somebody I’m paying thousands of dollars telling me my kid is gonna be the next best thing.
Keep education and sport separate.

londonboy
28-08-2019, 08:19 PM
Nope.
Fark that.

I wouldn’t hedge my kids education on somebody I’m paying thousands of dollars telling me my kid is gonna be the next best thing.
Keep education and sport separate.

Agree, 100%. It’s an outrageous statement to “encourage” kids in their program to attend a school with results nowhere near those of other public schools in the area. Premier League clubs will place kids in certain schools, but these schools are usually private and offer an excellent education away from football. Are the Jets going to guaranteed these kids a career away from football if they don’t make the grade? Putting all eggs in one basket for a 13 year old kid is quite the ask.

plague
28-08-2019, 08:40 PM
Agree, 100%. It’s an outrageous statement to “encourage” kids in their program to attend a school with results nowhere near those of other public schools in the area. Premier League clubs will place kids in certain schools, but these schools are usually private and offer an excellent education away from football. Are the Jets going to guaranteed these kids a career away from football if they don’t make the grade? Putting all eggs in one basket for a 13 year old kid is quite the ask.

parents deciding between 'maybe' hitting a decent ATAR and the bright lights of sporting stardom, you can see how they can get sidetracked.

The Dunster
28-08-2019, 08:41 PM
Agree, 100%. It’s an outrageous statement to “encourage” kids in their program to attend a school with results nowhere near those of other public schools in the area. Premier League clubs will place kids in certain schools, but these schools are usually private and offer an excellent education away from football. Are the Jets going to guaranteed these kids a career away from football if they don’t make the grade? Putting all eggs in one basket for a 13 year old kid is quite the ask.

Of the many thousands of students I taught at University I could count on one hand the successful ones that went to private schools.

Bremsstrahlung
28-08-2019, 08:46 PM
Is Hunter sports then a private school if your paying into the jets program and that’s your entry?
Do you consider catholic schools private?
Are selective schools private?

I don’t like the idea of sport and education being mixed and somewhat enforced at such a young age.

sammydog
28-08-2019, 08:59 PM
What happens when you lose your place in the squad after a year or two at the school? Can you stay, or have to change back to the school in your catchment?

Goatscheese
28-08-2019, 09:00 PM
Jets youth should play in the Sydney NPL comp in their own age group. From what I have seen, playing up an age in the local comp does them no favours.

Funny you say that from next year they will be. Which means the expected team to be the U12 next year have all lost their spots.

Goatscheese
28-08-2019, 09:03 PM
https://www.newcastlejets.com.au/news/jets-academy-enters-partnership-hunter-sports-high-school

This is interesting, particularly the bit about encouraging kids in the program to attend the school. I wonder what happens if the kids parents refuse???

Surely they won't be kicked out and if they do well most parents are going to know their kid is going to be better off in their life going to any other school and playing NPL than they will going to a school with Windale kids in the EJ program.

Goatscheese
28-08-2019, 09:04 PM
Is Hunter sports then a private school if your paying into the jets program and that’s your entry?
Do you consider catholic schools private?
Are selective schools private?

I don’t like the idea of sport and education being mixed and somewhat enforced at such a young age.

It might be a decent school if it was a selective school but it isn't just selective, kids in the catchment area get to attend regardless.

Goatscheese
28-08-2019, 09:05 PM
Not really a surprise that Hunter Sports is the school. The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team.

Also understand the reason for the move is to reduce costs to the Newcastle Jets, isn't going to cost them $20k/year like it would if they stayed at Speers Point

Texas Ranger
28-08-2019, 09:08 PM
Of the many thousands of students I taught at University I could count on one hand the successful ones that went to private schools.
Did you lecture one of the "humanities" subjects at Uni? Is that why you need to count with your fingers?

The Dunster
28-08-2019, 09:24 PM
parents deciding between 'maybe' hitting a decent ATAR and the bright lights of sporting stardom, you can see how they can get sidetracked.

Smart kids would become player managers and get a slice of the wages of 20 or more players without ever having to kick a ball.

plague
28-08-2019, 09:31 PM
than they will going to a school with Windale kids

Yeah you might want to back it up a bit there boss.

londonboy
28-08-2019, 09:32 PM
Also understand the reason for the move is to reduce costs to the Newcastle Jets, isn't going to cost them $20k/year like it would if they stayed at Speers Point

Well, hopefully NNSWF use this opportunity to push the use of the Speers Point facilities for the SAP or better community clubs. Half the SAP teams don’t use it, but with the Jets elsewhere they’ll need to get creative. I think it’s a great opportunity for NNSWF to go to SAP teams and woo them in. Magic, Jaffa’s, Olympic don’t currently want to train there. What can NNSWF do to get them in? Hopefully, they don’t just push more Fast 5ives to try and make it viable.

Barry Dawson
28-08-2019, 09:44 PM
They would be very lucky if it cost them 20k. I know for a fact that NNSW are charging the Jets more in the vicinity of 200k to use Speers Point for academy training and games. Any reason they are getting out?
With no lights at Hunter Sports, all training I suspect will be during school and daylight hours? “Encouraging kids to attend Hunter Sports”? Be like - “can’t attend all sessions? Can’t be part of program”
Encouragement comes in many different forms.

Retired01
29-08-2019, 09:28 AM
Can someone clarify something for me please and correct any detail I don't fully understand the whole EJ process

The kids play for their clubs until U11
The EJ is available until U13s next year
Kids then need to return to NPL clubs? I ask as Ive heard and seen off the SAP, EJ, and others.. mentioned and trialling at NPL clubs in recent weeks

Is this correct? Why would you both with EJ to only need to return to an NPL club? Even typing that I think surely Iv have it all mixed up.

Aegon
29-08-2019, 09:42 AM
Can someone clarify something for me please and correct any detail I don't fully understand the whole EJ process

The kids play for their clubs until U11
The EJ is available until U13s next year
Kids then need to return to NPL clubs? I ask as Ive heard and seen off the SAP, EJ, and others.. mentioned and trialling at NPL clubs in recent weeks

Is this correct? Why would you both with EJ to only need to return to an NPL club? Even typing that I think surely Iv have it all mixed up.

I think....... With the change in the SAP programs from Association to Club responsibility the emerging jets was being phased out from Under 11's and below.

With the Metro SAP the emerging jets 10's played against the metro SAP 11's teams and the 11's played the metro SAP 12's. There wasn't any intention to playing emerging jets vs the club SAP teams. The Metro SAP will only be Under 12's next year and will not exist in 2021 as the club SAP transition completes.

Potentially - the Jets academy will play in Sydney NPL next year in their age group which will also phase out the Under 12 jets teams as they will play in their age groups starting at Under 13's.

The Dunster
29-08-2019, 09:47 AM
Did you lecture one of the "humanities" subjects at Uni? Is that why you need to count with your fingers?

I have degrees in Mathematics and Economics - My Phd was in Mathematics - I have lectured students from all faculties in humanities subjects. But back on track here Private School kids do better at high school than they do at University. Public School kids do better at University than they did at high school. Studies confirm this.

The more elite the private school the wider the gap between a students high school and university performance. Students from less financially endowed private schools tend to do a lot better than their elite cousins at University.

The reasoning here is that elite schools encourage students to do what they are good at and isolate / shelter them away from things they are not. Ultimately, these kids lack autonomy and the ability to grind when the odds are against them. The public school kids that manage to make it through to University are not strangers to adversity and often find University a breeze now that they are finally on an even playing field.

How this all relates to sport - watch the Wallabies in action.

JettyJet
29-08-2019, 10:05 AM
Not really a surprise that Hunter Sports is the school. The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team.

Also understand the reason for the move is to reduce costs to the Newcastle Jets, isn't going to cost them $20k/year like it would if they stayed at Speers Point

This is factually incorrect.

Aegon
29-08-2019, 10:37 AM
How this all relates to sport - watch the Wallabies in action.

I'm dying...so true. :rof:

Texas Ranger
29-08-2019, 11:28 AM
I have degrees in Mathematics and Economics - My Phd was in Mathematics - I have lectured students from all faculties in humanities subjects. But back on track here Private School kids do better at high school than they do at University. Public School kids do better at University than they did at high school. Studies confirm this.

The more elite the private school the wider the gap between a students high school and university performance. Students from less financially endowed private schools tend to do a lot better than their elite cousins at University.

The reasoning here is that elite schools encourage students to do what they are good at and isolate / shelter them away from things they are not. Ultimately, these kids lack autonomy and the ability to grind when the odds are against them. The public school kids that manage to make it through to University are not strangers to adversity and often find University a breeze now that they are finally on an even playing field.

How this all relates to sport - watch the Wallabies in action.
Some interesting points, although the makeup of the Wallabies is somewhat different than in previous years.
I certainly don't share the dislike of private schools as many educators do, and wonder how and why anyone would be measuring the level of eliteness of a previous school in relation to results at Uni. But I accept that a public school student would have to be bright and able to work independently to get into many of the uni courses. But just as in football, if you don't get into the better programs to begin with you get left behind.

Retired01
29-08-2019, 11:52 AM
I think....... With the change in the SAP programs from Association to Club responsibility the emerging jets was being phased out from Under 11's and below.

With the Metro SAP the emerging jets 10's played against the metro SAP 11's teams and the 11's played the metro SAP 12's. There wasn't any intention to playing emerging jets vs the club SAP teams. The Metro SAP will only be Under 12's next year and will not exist in 2021 as the club SAP transition completes.

Potentially - the Jets academy will play in Sydney NPL next year in their age group which will also phase out the Under 12 jets teams as they will play in their age groups starting at Under 13's.

So all these so called elite programs will revert back to clubs from now on?
I don't know much about this stuff and just found names on the NNSW
so the following all need to find club spots again?

EJ
Macquarie Whites
Macquarie Blues
NNSW SAP Rangers
NNSW SAP United
many many more

Aegon
29-08-2019, 12:05 PM
So all these so called elite programs will revert back to clubs from now on?
I don't know much about this stuff and just found names on the NNSW
so the following all need to find club spots again?

EJ
Macquarie Whites
Macquarie Blues
NNSW SAP Rangers
NNSW SAP United
many many more

No, not exactly. They have a transition plan in place.

2018 Under 9 Premier Club SAP started.
2018 Metro SAP was U/10's, 11's and 12's

2019 Premier Club SAP is Under 9's & 10's
2019 Metro SAP is 11's and 12's

2020 Premier Club SAP is Under 9's, 10's & 11's
2020 Metro SAP is Under 12's

2021 Premier Club SAP is Under 9's - 12's and the Metro (Association) SAP no longer exists.

The other points to this are:
Emerging jets program no longer exists and will begin at Under 12's or 13's NPL depending on whether they play in Sydney or Newcastle NPL.

For girls:
They will still play in Macquarie, Hunter or Macquarie teams and will compete 2 years up.
e.g. Under 9 premier club SAP includes Under 11 teams from the above.

The emerging jets girls start at Under 11's and compete in the Premier Club SAP 1 year up.
e.g. Under 10 premier club SAP includes Under 12 Association girls teams and Under 11 Emerging jets girls teams

I hope this make sense.

The Dunster
29-08-2019, 12:11 PM
Some interesting points, although the makeup of the Wallabies is somewhat different than in previous years.
I certainly don't share the dislike of private schools as many educators do, and wonder how and why anyone would be measuring the level of eliteness of a previous school in relation to results at Uni. But I accept that a public school student would have to be bright and able to work independently to get into many of the uni courses. But just as in football, if you don't get into the better programs to begin with you get left behind.

Something I failed to mention is that the level of expectation on the elite / private school kids at University is much greater than on the public school kids. So in many respects they carry a burden that the public school kids do not.

With respect to better programs - once anyone gets into University their first semester results carry far more weight than their ATAR scores when it comes to courses available to them.

I'd hope it's a similar situation with football - but I fear that's probably not the case.

Retired01
29-08-2019, 12:50 PM
Yes Thank You

Jim
29-08-2019, 12:54 PM
So all these so called elite programs will revert back to clubs from now on?
I don't know much about this stuff and just found names on the NNSW
so the following all need to find club spots again?

EJ
Macquarie Whites
Macquarie Blues
NNSW SAP Rangers
NNSW SAP United
many many more

Broadmeadow Magic has already trialed against the U12's Macquarie teams to pick the best for their 2020 npl 13's. So much for club junior development

Aegon
29-08-2019, 01:12 PM
Broadmeadow Magic has already trialed against the U12's Macquarie teams to pick the best for their 2020 npl 13's. So much for club junior development

Magic NET 12's trialed against Macquarie? or Magic NPL 13's?

Interested to know what the result in this was as I saw Macquarie and Newcastle SAP teams trialing against the combined NET squads at Wallarah and they were excellent games.

Goatscheese
29-08-2019, 09:18 PM
I know for a fact that NNSW are charging the Jets more in the vicinity of 200k to use Speers Point for academy training and games. Any reason they are getting out?.

You answered your own question as to why they are getting out

Goatscheese
29-08-2019, 09:19 PM
This is factually incorrect.

Which part? Is not Craig Deans the TD?

Captain_Carl
29-08-2019, 11:19 PM
Magic NET 12's trialed against Macquarie? or Magic NPL 13's?

Interested to know what the result in this was as I saw Macquarie and Newcastle SAP teams trialing against the combined NET squads at Wallarah and they were excellent games.

U12 Macquarie teams were dominant vs U12 Magic. Look at the U12 Metro SAP ladder and you find the 3 Macquarie teams coming 1st, 2nd and 5th respectively (out of 10 teams).

U12 Macquarie Select defeated U12 NET Select 6-1

pv4
30-08-2019, 10:16 AM
https://www.newcastlejets.com.au/news/jets-academy-enters-partnership-hunter-sports-high-school

This is interesting, particularly the bit about encouraging kids in the program to attend the school. I wonder what happens if the kids parents refuse???

I also wonder how the football program affects the kids at the school who do not play for the Jets Academy. Will the kids playing for other NPL and similar clubs be included in this now basically Academy training?

In the end, I can't see this as anything but a bad move for the Jets Academy. They're getting less football, and thus less development.

JettyJet
30-08-2019, 11:59 AM
Which part? Is not Craig Deans the TD?

No he is not, he's the TD of the Jets, not the school. He left last year!!

Goatscheese
30-08-2019, 05:39 PM
No he is not, he's the TD of the Jets, not the school. He left last year!!

I didn't say he was TD of the school.

MFKS
31-08-2019, 08:03 PM
Don't know what you are all worried about

Very little has changed here since Pascoe was coaching the Jets Yoof team


Kids were going to HSH then in the hope of making it


Pascoe may have stopped his active involvement with the Jets but this is just changing things back to the way things were being done 3/4 years ago

Just them reinventing the same stuff and calling it a different name



If anything this is just showing all that is wrong with Football in the Hunter
The same guys all keep getting a start again and again and again

No wonder NNSW fails spectacularly compared to the rest of Oz

JettyJet
02-09-2019, 09:29 AM
I didn't say he was TD of the school.

Yes you did

"Not really a surprise that Hunter Sports is the school. The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team."
And less than half of the Coaches are at the Jets!

Texas Ranger
02-09-2019, 09:42 PM
Yes you did

"Not really a surprise that Hunter Sports is the school. The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team."
And less than half of the Coaches are at the Jets!
Sorry Jetty Jet, but grammar isn't your strong point. That says the TD works there. It doesn't say he is the TD there. Are you an Old boy of HSH?

JettyJet
05-09-2019, 10:10 AM
Sorry Jetty Jet, but grammar isn't your strong point. That says the TD works there. It doesn't say he is the TD there. Are you an Old boy of HSH?
The TD DOESN'T work there!!
He is the TD at the Jets and works for the Jets, he doesn't work for the school. Either way what was said was incorrect.

londonboy
05-09-2019, 12:02 PM
https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/when-soccer-died-new-doco-to-lift-the-lid-on-australian-football

Looks interesting.

Goatscheese
06-09-2019, 08:17 PM
The TD DOESN'T work there!!
He is the TD at the Jets and works for the Jets, he doesn't work for the school. Either way what was said was incorrect.

Yes but you claimed I said he was TD of the school, which I never said.

TD used to work there though, other coaches still do.

Goatscheese
06-09-2019, 08:20 PM
https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/when-soccer-died-new-doco-to-lift-the-lid-on-australian-football

Looks interesting.

I may have missed it but shame they didn't say when they were broadcasting it or if it is on the SBS streaming service.

JettyJet
09-09-2019, 02:23 PM
Yes but you claimed I said he was TD of the school, which I never said.

TD used to work there though, other coaches still do.

I claimed what you said was incorrect, it was.

"The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team."
That is factually incorrect.
1) "The TD works there"- Incorrect, he doesn't.
2) "along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team"- Incorrect

Goatscheese
09-09-2019, 09:46 PM
I claimed what you said was incorrect, it was.

"The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team."
That is factually incorrect.
1) "The TD works there"- Incorrect, he doesn't.
2) "along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team"- Incorrect

Don't back track now, when I asked you what was incorrect you said, that he wasn't the TD of the school. Which isn't what I said.

Texas Ranger
10-09-2019, 06:07 AM
He's got you there JettyJet. You clearly called him out on claiming something he didn't claim. Again your comprehension skills are being questioned. Who does and doesn't work there at any given time is another matter.

JettyJet
10-09-2019, 09:41 AM
He's got you there JettyJet. You clearly called him out on claiming something he didn't claim. Again your comprehension skills are being questioned. Who does and doesn't work there at any given time is another matter.
Honestly, what he said in whatever context or grammatical slant you apply to it was wrong. It was wrong then, as it is now.
The facts remain the same, what was said was incorrect and lacked the knowledge to have an informative comment or opinion.
Whataboutism is pathetic, still in whatever context you apply, the comment was incorrect. I made a grammatical misread, that doesn't make the comment any less incorrect.

"The TD works there along with every other teacher who also coaches an EJ team."- Is 100% false.

Jim
10-09-2019, 11:22 AM
Lots of u11 Jets trialing for NPL clubs. Are Jets Youth going to Sydney?

JettyJet
10-09-2019, 12:06 PM
Lots of u11 Jets trialing for NPL clubs. Are Jets Youth going to Sydney?
Few kids looking to head south also!

The Dunster
10-09-2019, 12:45 PM
https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/when-soccer-died-new-doco-to-lift-the-lid-on-australian-football

Looks interesting.

I have issues of Soccer Action Magazine back to the early 1970's and much of the conversation has not changed since then when it comes to junior football.
The only thing that has been addressed to some degree is the use of small sided games to improve players performance in tight areas.
Technical skill today is street ahead - at all levels.
Where things have gone backwards is that we used to have certain clubs developing juniors not their senior programs.

Trimmers as an example [Bottom left of picture] was developed by Brighton. He played in a local two division competition which also competed in Cup matches throughout the year against teams in other regions, and ultimately other states as well.
There were no elite teams - you played in one of two divisions [rarely more] and come Cup time a division 2 team in one comp could play a division 1 team in another comp.
The best players were well and truly known as were the best teams. Different clubs played different styles of football, different teams played different types of football.
Skilfull kids were targeted by less skilled ones, skilled kids learned how to deal with it......

The insular nature of the junior game today is killing it. In the past the elitism was only in the 1st division teams - but the 2nd div kids at least got a crack at them in the Cup games.
Today - you have the elite kids all playing against each other in a bubble which is absolutely pointless.

Goatscheese
10-09-2019, 10:19 PM
Lots of u11 Jets trialing for NPL clubs. Are Jets Youth going to Sydney?

I thought U11s weren't allowed to trail for U13 clubs in NPL sides.

Captain_Carl
10-09-2019, 10:24 PM
I thought U11s weren't allowed to trail for U13 clubs in NPL sides.

Usually they are not but they were deemed to be an exception to the rule as Jets Academy teams moving to Sydney next season start at U13. U13 Jets will play U13 NPL in Sydney. The current U11 (next season’s U12) would not have anywhere to play. Sure they could play U12 SAP or NET but they have already played U12 SAP this year. This is why they have been allowed.

Aegon
11-09-2019, 09:32 AM
I thought U11s weren't allowed to trail for U13 clubs in NPL sides.

What’s the reasoning behind this? If you’re good enough you should be allowed to play IMO.

Goatscheese
11-09-2019, 10:03 PM
What’s the reasoning behind this? If you’re good enough you should be allowed to play IMO.

Yeah it seems pointless, let a 11 turning 12 play U13 if he is good enough. Why is that not allowed yet a 12yo turning 13 can play all the way up to U16? A 15yo can play first grade?

Once again there appears little logical consistency to Northern's rules

londonboy
12-09-2019, 08:59 AM
Yeah it seems pointless, let a 11 turning 12 play U13 if he is good enough. Why is that not allowed yet a 12yo turning 13 can play all the way up to U16? A 15yo can play first grade?

Once again there appears little logical consistency to Northern's rules

Agree. It's crazy, especially considering the Football NSW youth competitions policy on "biological maturity". Players that are shown to be "potentially disadvantaged from a physical perspective" can play in a lower age-category, but kids good enough to play up a year or two cannot???? Mad.

https://footballnsw.com.au/2019/09/11/2020-football-nsw-biological-maturation/

Jim
12-09-2019, 01:55 PM
Yeah it seems pointless, let a 11 turning 12 play U13 if he is good enough. Why is that not allowed yet a 12yo turning 13 can play all the way up to U16? A 15yo can play first grade?

Once again there appears little logical consistency to Northern's rules

Not forgetting the u11s this year will be 12 next year so playing in the 13's is only one year up like the Jets kids do every year.

JettyJet
08-10-2019, 03:20 PM
14's just won the National Titles so I'd say they are going well.

furns
12-10-2019, 10:04 PM
Check out the Lawrie episode on the Jetstream for expansion on whats going on with the Academy side of things

londonboy
13-10-2019, 06:58 PM
Check out the Lawrie episode on the Jetstream for expansion on whats going on with the Academy side of things

I thought the interview was excellent - great work. I know Lawrie comes in for a lot of criticism on here, but he came across really well. Honest, clear about why certain decisions had been made and someone who genuinely cares about the future of the club. Fair play to him on doing the interview with nothing off limits.

furns
14-10-2019, 03:09 AM
I thought the interview was excellent - great work. I know Lawrie comes in for a lot of criticism on here, but he came across really well. Honest, clear about why certain decisions had been made and someone who genuinely cares about the future of the club. Fair play to him on doing the interview with nothing off limits.
thanks mate, was interesting to hear his response to this question in particular.

Aegon
14-10-2019, 11:43 AM
I thought the interview was excellent - great work. I know Lawrie comes in for a lot of criticism on here, but he came across really well. Honest, clear about why certain decisions had been made and someone who genuinely cares about the future of the club. Fair play to him on doing the interview with nothing off limits.

Completely agree.

londonboy
14-10-2019, 02:58 PM
thanks mate, was interesting to hear his response to this question in particular.

Yes, I agree. I remain dubious that all parents have welcomed the move to Sydney with open arms. It may be the case that any sort of the unrest on the issue might not have filtered its way up to Lawrie's level, or that parents are worried about speaking out in case its effects their kid's spot in the team. Same for the move to Hunter Sports High School. Reading between the lines I suspect there will be a real push from the Jets for all kids in the program to attend Hunter Sports High School in the very near future. Lawrie mentioned the kids outside the school training 3 times a week and those kids attending the school having 5 sessions a week (plus using the schools physios etc). It may not be explicitly said by the Jets, but a time will come soon where parents/kids realise they probably need to attend the Hunter Sports High to get the best chance of making it. Tough choices.

The Dunster
14-10-2019, 05:34 PM
It may not be explicitly said by the Jets, but a time will come soon where parents/kids realise they probably need to attend the Hunter Sports High to get the best chance of making it. Tough choices.

Why on earth would you be banking on anything through a club that's future in our domestic league is not even certain let alone as a pathway to playing at the highest level in Europe ?
If your kids good enough he or she will make it one way or another - it's never going to be a case only one pathway for them in football or any sport / profession.

Plenty of time and plenty of opportunities

londonboy
15-10-2019, 06:27 AM
Why on earth would you be banking on anything through a club that's future in our domestic league is not even certain let alone as a pathway to playing at the highest level in Europe ?

Yes, I agree entirely. I find the whole Hunter Sports High thing quite troubling. Sure, use the facilities there if it makes financial sense etc, but keep the Jets out of the curriculum. The extra training for Jets kids going there is like a “reward” for attending the school. Why can’t they just do the normal football training the school does, and then save the formal Jets training for when all the kids at other schools are available?

Does the Jets involvement at the school mean there are less places for non-Jets kids to get into the football program at HSHS? How does the Jets presence at the school effect the normal program/timetable? YouÂ’d have to think the Jets will be given preference on the use of facilities.

To me there is too much putting all your eggs in one basket - for the Jets, for the school, and most importantly it seems kids/parents are being asked to do the same.

Do any other clubs in Australia have a similar set-up, with kids being encouraged to go to a certain school and “rewarded” with more training for doing so?

plague
15-10-2019, 09:25 AM
Yes, I agree entirely. I find the whole Hunter Sports High thing quite troubling. Sure, use the facilities there if it makes financial sense etc, but keep the Jets out of the curriculum. The extra training for Jets kids going there is like a “reward” for attending the school. Why can’t they just do the normal football training the school does, and then save the formal Jets training for when all the kids at other schools are available?

Does the Jets involvement at the school mean there are less places for non-Jets kids to get into the football program at HSHS? How does the Jets presence at the school effect the normal program/timetable? YouÂ’d have to think the Jets will be given preference on the use of facilities.

To me there is too much putting all your eggs in one basket - for the Jets, for the school, and most importantly it seems kids/parents are being asked to do the same.

Do any other clubs in Australia have a similar set-up, with kids being encouraged to go to a certain school and “rewarded” with more training for doing so?

i thought the CEO (in the podcast) said that there was already a section of the Jets academy kids who train more than others. Sorry forgot what the reason was, but was sure he said something to that effect. (Please correct if wrong anyone).

Also, HSH and the Jets academy are all about one thing, and thats producing the best possible athletes. Yes they'd love them all to be well rounded, adjusted kids that know where the capital of Peru is on a map and be able to identify all the current genders, but at the heart of it they all want to be the best footballers they can be. If that means a change of school, a change of training base and a change of game venues, well its the sacrifice people have to make in order to achieve that.
These kids (rightly or wrongly) have dreams of playing at the very highest level. A level that no one cares how 'book smart' you are. and outside of a selective academic school, the ability for the kids to learn the same stuff as everyone else in the city is at HSH anyway.

the Jets have said "here is the best place for you to achieve your dreams". If the kids want it, they'll adjust, like the millions before them around the world that have done it.

also, if having to travel for games, training and education is a problem, then top level football prob aint for them. if any of these kids are any sort of special then they'll be on the first bus out of Newy at a young age anyway. Not everyone gets the luxury of growing up in Singleton dreaming of being a coal miner.

as for a Jets kid taking up a footballing spot at the school? I thought the Jets were supposed to be the pinnacle of football in this city so they 'should' be better than any other kids anyway. again, the goal here is to produce the best footballers. As many others have said, there is more than one pathway. If the kid doesnt get into HSH then they go down a different road. no different for the many many 'smart' kids who dont get into Merewether High. Plenty of them are still gonna be doctors and stat nerdz.

Aegon
15-10-2019, 11:46 AM
as for a Jets kid taking up a footballing spot at the school? I thought the Jets were supposed to be the pinnacle of football in this city so they 'should' be better than any other kids anyway.

I think the question is what happens to the other football kids (non jets academy) who are part of the talented sports programs. Are they going to get game opportunities & the same treatment as the Jets kids?

plague
15-10-2019, 11:55 AM
I think the question is what happens to the other football kids (non jets academy) who are part of the talented sports programs. Are they going to get game opportunities & the same treatment as the Jets kids?

you mean TSP kids who dont go to HSH?
Id assume no, they wont get the same opportunities as they are under the NNSW banner (is that right?) and its up to NNSW to sort that out.

as for kids already at HSH for football, ive read it as the Jets are taking their program out to HSH to use facilities etc. You would have to assume that HSH football program will still be seperate. But yeah, maybe one for the CEO or technical director to answer.

londonboy
15-10-2019, 12:16 PM
.

as for a Jets kid taking up a footballing spot at the school? I thought the Jets were supposed to be the pinnacle of football in this city so they 'should' be better than any other kids anyway. again, the goal here is to produce the best footballers. As many others have said, there is more than one pathway. If the kid doesnt get into HSH then they go down a different road. no different for the many many 'smart' kids who dont get into Merewether High. Plenty of them are still gonna be doctors and stat nerdz.

My point here is that HSH has an ongoing football program, which kids trial to get into the school to attend. These kids who get in are not all Emerging Jets (although some may be), but if there is now an onus on Jets kids going to the school, are there less spots for those non-Jets kids? There can only be a limited number of spaces open, and it would be a shame if the majority of places open each year only went to those already selected for the Jets. I just hope being an Emerging Jet does not become a prerequisite for selection for the school.

londonboy
15-10-2019, 12:20 PM
I think the question is what happens to the other football kids (non jets academy) who are part of the talented sports programs. Are they going to get game opportunities & the same treatment as the Jets kids?

Presumably a time will come when the Jets think a kid is good enough for their program, and the kid is encouraged to go to HSH? Obviously Lawrie spoke about them catering for both HSH and non-HSH kids, but it will become more and more rare that kids not attending HSH will progress with the Jets if this link-up becomes a long-term thing.

plague
15-10-2019, 12:39 PM
My point here is that HSH has an ongoing football program, which kids trial to get into the school to attend. These kids who get in are not all Emerging Jets (although some may be), but if there is now an onus on Jets kids going to the school, are there less spots for those non-Jets kids? There can only be a limited number of spaces open, and it would be a shame if the majority of places open each year only went to those already selected for the Jets. I just hope being an Emerging Jet does not become a prerequisite for selection for the school.

oh i think your question is valid, but again, if the kid is hell bent on being a top level player, then they need to understand more avenues are available than just the jets.
it could work the other way in that HSH expand their football program on the back of the Jets support. I dont know.

but to be honest (and without the numbers) id not be surprised that wearing an NPL shirt has been better for the prospects of local players than wearing a Jets youth shirt over the past decade.

MFKS
15-10-2019, 03:23 PM
You guys make out like this is a new thing

Didn't a former Jets Yoof coach work there and kids started magically enrolling at HSH once upon a time??

Jim
24-10-2019, 11:23 AM
How many years has it been running for? 7 years or so? Is 7 years long enough to make a judgement?

Has it produced any quality players? I'm not talking about those that are good at NPL level because we have produced hundreds of those for decades without the EJP.

Note: I'm talking about the EJP/Academy as one.

How many are in the Aleague or in any professional league? Did Kanta or Hoffy go through EJ?

MFKS
24-10-2019, 05:35 PM
How many are in the Aleague or in any professional league? Did Kanta or Hoffy go through EJ?

Cowburn
Hoole
Virgili
Lundy
Pepper

They are the only locals who have been in it and played HAL from memory

Others have been in it from out of town like
Chapman
Oxborrow
Pavicevic
Crowley
Thurgate
Duncan

The most blatantly obvious part of this is that most of these players were there in the first year. Since then the Jets have went for younger players

The only bloke who you could say has been in the system the longest is Thurgate

plague
24-10-2019, 07:01 PM
So with Hoole, was he EJ then went to Magic or was he playing for Magic while part of the EJ or something?
didnt he go straight from Magic to senior Jets?

MFKS
24-10-2019, 09:02 PM
He played first year with the Jets in the NPL

Took another year and a half before he got a run in the HAL

The first season I wouldn't say it was much of a program of development at that stage

We had James Virgili Connor Chapman Sam Gallaway and Jacob Pepper playing and all had been playing HAL with Jets already

Jack Duncan had played in the HAL when BK got knocked out by Elrich one day

The rest of the side was Luke Remington Kale Dino Faj Mason Campbell and a young Nick Cowburn

So at the time they had a pretty fair side which we haven't really got close to seeing since at that level

I also pretty certain that Mitch Cooper played with them that year before getting injured and I also suspect Josh Brillante had a run at one point

The development was that GVE used the team to push players along to HAL level

Jim
25-10-2019, 09:00 PM
He played first year with the Jets in the NPL
Took another year and a half before he got a run in the HAL
The first season I wouldn't say it was much of a program of development at that stage
We had James Virgili Connor Chapman Sam Gallaway and Jacob Pepper playing and all had been playing HAL with Jets already
Jack Duncan had played in the HAL when BK got knocked out by Elrich one day
The rest of the side was Luke Remington Kale Dino Faj Mason Campbell and a young Nick Cowburn
So at the time they had a pretty fair side which we haven't really got close to seeing since at that level
I also pretty certain that Mitch Cooper played with them that year before getting injured and I also suspect Josh Brillante had a run at one point
The development was that GVE used the team to push players along to HAL level


Most of these guys are still in town. Decent players but the ones tested at Aleague level havent made it. That's not really good enough for academy players. Maybe this Sydney gig will have some influential scouts looking at them.

I wonder if the coaching is always what it needs to be.

YewYew
07-12-2019, 07:40 AM
When do Jets boys team start? I see Emerging Jets u10 girls now. Boys u12 or u13?

And do kids in northern TSP all go to Jets, or do they have open trials?

YewYew
07-12-2019, 07:41 AM
He played first year with the Jets in the NPL

Took another year and a half before he got a run in the HAL

The first season I wouldn't say it was much of a program of development at that stage

We had James Virgili Connor Chapman Sam Gallaway and Jacob Pepper playing and all had been playing HAL with Jets already

Jack Duncan had played in the HAL when BK got knocked out by Elrich one day

The rest of the side was Luke Remington Kale Dino Faj Mason Campbell and a young Nick Cowburn

So at the time they had a pretty fair side which we haven't really got close to seeing since at that level

I also pretty certain that Mitch Cooper played with them that year before getting injured and I also suspect Josh Brillante had a run at one point

The development was that GVE used the team to push players along to HAL level

Any of these players doing coaching badges? Be good to have current/ recent pros giving back to kids in community sap or youth soccer

Aegon
07-12-2019, 04:47 PM
When do Jets boys team start? I see Emerging Jets u10 girls now. Boys u12 or u13?

And do kids in northern TSP all go to Jets, or do they have open trials?

From next year it is U13’s. They are joining Sydney NPL and will be playing in the correct age group.

I’m not sure on the below, but NNSW run TSP whilst the Jets run themselves. I would assume they watch the games at 12’s NET/SAP and send their own invitations to trial.

YewYew
11-12-2019, 07:59 AM
I would assume they watch the games at 12’s NET/SAP and send their own invitations to trial.

so Jets also keeping a eye on NET? that's good. Some good kids playing in that comp whose parents probably cant afford SAP. good to know those kids might also get a chance.

that said, ain't jets fees like $3000???

Captain_Carl
20-11-2021, 08:01 AM
It isn’t working because they aren’t charging the kids enough money. More money is the answer.