Current NPL Structure

[Zico]

Interested in reading people’s opinions on the PPS and if they feel it is working or if it is time to go back to the previous model?

The PPS was from memory put in place to lower the player wages, make the comp more even and promote or fast track for a better word young players to a higher level.

My take on it is,

1 - The player wages have not slowed or decreased since the introduction of the PPS if anything the player wages have grown significantly in the period.

2 – Make the comp more even? Last season was remarkably close from top of the table to 6th or 7th but then day light to the perennial bottom 3 clubs of Adamstown, Valo and Lakes. The top 4 has been made up predominately of the same 4-5 clubs every season of the PPS with Edgeworth winning almost every Premiership since its inception and the bottom 3 clubs have almost certainly been the same 3 or 4 clubs.

3- Fast track the development of young players? How many players do we currently have playing A League from the local NPL? How many national team players at any level have we produced since the inception of the PPS? Very few is the answer. The PPS can also hinder the development of young players who develop later that 20 years of age (I’ll wait for expected “if you are not playing first grade at 20 years old then you will never be good enough” brigade). Players hit their peaks at a later age now, play to any older age and most certainly appear to still be developing at an older age also. How can anybody honestly look at a 20 year and say the player has hit full development?

My thoughts are that the PPS has run its race and it is time to stop the restrictions on clubs. The previous model worked. We may see a club come out of the blue and splash the cash to buy a comp but everybody knows that this is not sustainable and the club that does this will almost certainly be relegated once the splash of cash dries up. Get rid of the PPS, return to an open Reserve Grade and move 18’s to 19’s or 20’s and implement promotion and relegation between the divisions for the comp will prosper. If people don’t agree with promotion and relegation then why not have a play off for the spot that the last placed NPL team plays of against the premiers of the 1st Div at the home ground of the 1st Div premiers? This would attract huge interest and be a big cash injection for both clubs but even more so for the home side and double as a leg up to compete financial for both sides the following season.

[Aegon]

Interested in reading people’s opinions on the PPS and if they feel it is working or if it is time to go back to the previous model?

The PPS was from memory put in place to lower the player wages, make the comp more even and promote or fast track for a better word young players to a higher level.

My take on it is,

1 - The player wages have not slowed or decreased since the introduction of the PPS if anything the player wages have grown significantly in the period.

2 – Make the comp more even? Last season was remarkably close from top of the table to 6th or 7th but then day light to the perennial bottom 3 clubs of Adamstown, Valo and Lakes. The top 4 has been made up predominately of the same 4-5 clubs every season of the PPS with Edgeworth winning almost every Premiership since its inception and the bottom 3 clubs have almost certainly been the same 3 or 4 clubs.

3- Fast track the development of young players? How many players do we currently have playing A League from the local NPL? How many national team players at any level have we produced since the inception of the PPS? Very few is the answer. The PPS can also hinder the development of young players who develop later that 20 years of age (I’ll wait for expected “if you are not playing first grade at 20 years old then you will never be good enough” brigade). Players hit their peaks at a later age now, play to any older age and most certainly appear to still be developing at an older age also. How can anybody honestly look at a 20 year and say the player has hit full development?

My thoughts are that the PPS has run its race and it is time to stop the restrictions on clubs. The previous model worked. We may see a club come out of the blue and splash the cash to buy a comp but everybody knows that this is not sustainable and the club that does this will almost certainly be relegated once the splash of cash dries up. Get rid of the PPS, return to an open Reserve Grade and move 18’s to 19’s or 20’s and implement promotion and relegation between the divisions for the comp will prosper. If people don’t agree with promotion and relegation then why not have a play off for the spot that the last placed NPL team plays of against the premiers of the 1st Div at the home ground of the 1st Div premiers? This would attract huge interest and be a big cash injection for both clubs but even more so for the home side and double as a leg up to compete financial for both sides the following season.

PPS is just ineffective. it isn't near restrictive enough to have a tangible effect. Even if it was, clubs know enough loopholes to get around it.

[ForeverRed]

The original ops which was in place for one year was because because clubs such as edgeworth, olympic and mainly magic complained to the FFA stating it was to much of a restriction for a small country town like Newcastle, FFA then has NNSWF draw up what they believe to be a suitable solution, hence the mediocre outcome

[The Magician]

The original ops which was in place for one year was because because clubs such as edgeworth, olympic and mainly magic complained to the FFA stating it was to much of a restriction for a small country town like Newcastle, FFA then has NNSWF draw up what they believe to be a suitable solution, hence the mediocre outcome

Amazing.... almost everything in that sentence is wrong, the capital city football clubs launched anti discrimination proceedings against the FFA supported by the PFA because of the age based penalties within the PPS for players over the age of 23. But agree the switching player penalty has never been of sufficient degree.

[ForeverRed]

But a model was allowed to be invented by NNSWF by FFA which is why it’s so soft

[Zico]

But a model was allowed to be invented by NNSWF by FFA which is why it’s so soft

Why have any restrictions though?
Clubs that are forward thinking and well ran should be able to succeed while clubs that are poorly ran should reap what they sew.

[Aegon]

My post is on a slightly different tangent but probably appropriate under the thread:

What do people think the ideal NNSWF NPL structure should look like?

My opinion is the below (all based on current 1st grade standings and nothing to do with the clubs themselves)

NPL 1
8 teams
Edgeworth - Magic - Olympic - Azzurri - Maitland - Jaffas - Weston - Valentine

NPL 2
8 teams
Adamstown - Lakes - New Lambton - Singleton - Kahibah - Belswans - Cooks Hill - West Wallsend

NPL 3
8 teams
Toronto - Cessnock - South Cardiff - Thornton - Wallsend + 3(E.g. Cardiff, Swansea, Hamilton Azzurri, Mayfield, etc or any of Northern Inland, Mid Coast or Far Nth Coast)


The plan could be to achieve this within a few seasons.

Season 1 (2021 for example only)

Competitions maintain current structure
9th, 10th & 11th at the end of the season in NPL 1 are relegated to NPL 2/NL1 for 2022
Expressions of interest called upon for the NPL 3 extra clubs required for Season 2023


2022

NPL 1 is 8 teams in a 21 or ideally 28 game season
NPL 2/NL1 is 13 teams in a 24 game season
Promotion/Relegation and Play off games occur between NPL 1 & NPL 2
Positions 9-13 in NPL 2 are relegated to NPL 3 for season 2023


2023 & onwards

The clubs selected as part of the EOI's in 2021 are added to NPL 3
NPL 1, 2 & 3 run as 8 team competitions
4 team finals
Last in NPL 1 & 2 auto relegate
Play off games between second last NPL 1 & 2 home and away play off with second place in NPL 2 & 3
First in NPL 2 & 3 auto promote


The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:

All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025


Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP level.

I think the main point of discussion would be around promotion/relegation criteria and whether it would be based on:
Regular season standings?
GF Winner/Runner Ups promote?
Senior club championship?
Senior + Youth club championship?

Interested to hear others thoughts on this. Is there a better way forward? Is it pie in the sky?

[Bull fighter]

Makes a lot of sense, too much sense for Northern...

[Captain_Carl]

My post is on a slightly different tangent but probably appropriate under the thread:

What do people think the ideal NNSWF NPL structure should look like?

My opinion is the below (all based on current 1st grade standings and nothing to do with the clubs themselves)

NPL 1
8 teams
Edgeworth - Magic - Olympic - Azzurri - Maitland - Jaffas - Weston - Valentine

NPL 2
8 teams
Adamstown - Lakes - New Lambton - Singleton - Kahibah - Belswans - Cooks Hill - West Wallsend

NPL 3
8 teams
Toronto - Cessnock - South Cardiff - Thornton - Wallsend + 3(E.g. Cardiff, Swansea, Hamilton Azzurri, Mayfield, etc or any of Northern Inland, Mid Coast or Far Nth Coast)


The plan could be to achieve this within a few seasons.

Season 1 (2021 for example only)

Competitions maintain current structure
9th, 10th & 11th at the end of the season in NPL 1 are relegated to NPL 2/NL1 for 2022
Expressions of interest called upon for the NPL 3 extra clubs required for Season 2023


2022

NPL 1 is 8 teams in a 21 or ideally 28 game season
NPL 2/NL1 is 13 teams in a 24 game season
Promotion/Relegation and Play off games occur between NPL 1 & NPL 2
Positions 9-13 in NPL 2 are relegated to NPL 3 for season 2023


2023 & onwards

The clubs selected as part of the EOI's in 2021 are added to NPL 3
NPL 1, 2 & 3 run as 8 team competitions
4 team finals
Last in NPL 1 & 2 auto relegate
Play off games between second last NPL 1 & 2 home and away play off with second place in NPL 2 & 3
First in NPL 2 & 3 auto promote


The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:

All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025


Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP level.

I think the main point of discussion would be around promotion/relegation criteria and whether it would be based on:
Regular season standings?
GF Winner/Runner Ups promote?
Senior club championship?
Senior + Youth club championship?

Interested to hear others thoughts on this. Is there a better way forward? Is it pie in the sky?

I like the idea and think it is feasible. Definitely a 28 game season as opposed to 21. Yes to all the other points. The biggest area of contention is whether to decouple the youth from seniors or to run it as a club championship as you suggested. If a club’s youth are doing well and their first team fails and gets relegated all those youth would likely leave and go to an NPL 1 club resulting in that relegated club taking two steps back. The last 2 clubs to be relegated in NPL were Lake Macquarie and Valentine and it is clear to see how difficult a rebuild can be.

[Barry Dawson]

Finally someone is speaking sense and reason.

An eight team 1st division is the only way forward

NNSW need to pull their heads on facility expectations in a regional town with so many teams and limited sponsorship / grant funds available (due to political landscape).

[Hunter403]

Like a lot of what you say Aegon. I think that the Youth stream should have promotion and relegation separate to that of the Senior stream. Pretty obvious that the kids will leave if their club is demoted but there own team does well.

Maybe limit Youth team "sackings" each season? Not sure on this one but maybe worth discussing.

[CHAMP]

I love this format your thoughts in my opinion are very close to perfect.

[onlooker]

My post is on a slightly different tangent but probably appropriate under the thread:

What do people think the ideal NNSWF NPL structure should look like?

My opinion is the below (all based on current 1st grade standings and nothing to do with the clubs themselves)

NPL 1
8 teams
Edgeworth - Magic - Olympic - Azzurri - Maitland - Jaffas - Weston - Valentine

NPL 2
8 teams
Adamstown - Lakes - New Lambton - Singleton - Kahibah - Belswans - Cooks Hill - West Wallsend

NPL 3
8 teams
Toronto - Cessnock - South Cardiff - Thornton - Wallsend + 3(E.g. Cardiff, Swansea, Hamilton Azzurri, Mayfield, etc or any of Northern Inland, Mid Coast or Far Nth Coast)


The plan could be to achieve this within a few seasons.

Season 1 (2021 for example only)

Competitions maintain current structure
9th, 10th & 11th at the end of the season in NPL 1 are relegated to NPL 2/NL1 for 2022
Expressions of interest called upon for the NPL 3 extra clubs required for Season 2023


2022

NPL 1 is 8 teams in a 21 or ideally 28 game season
NPL 2/NL1 is 13 teams in a 24 game season
Promotion/Relegation and Play off games occur between NPL 1 & NPL 2
Positions 9-13 in NPL 2 are relegated to NPL 3 for season 2023


2023 & onwards

The clubs selected as part of the EOI's in 2021 are added to NPL 3
NPL 1, 2 & 3 run as 8 team competitions
4 team finals
Last in NPL 1 & 2 auto relegate
Play off games between second last NPL 1 & 2 home and away play off with second place in NPL 2 & 3
First in NPL 2 & 3 auto promote


The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:

All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025


Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP level.

I think the main point of discussion would be around promotion/relegation criteria and whether it would be based on:
Regular season standings?
GF Winner/Runner Ups promote?
Senior club championship?
Senior + Youth club championship?

Interested to hear others thoughts on this. Is there a better way forward? Is it pie in the sky?

Can we all just copy this and spam northern with it until they get onboard!!!

[ranger]

I think this is a great proposition. Gives the game the most room to move and grow instead of the stagnant format we have now.

Promotion/relegation and more games is key to creating an overall higher standard of football in Northern

[Negative Police]

similar to Scottish model

[Jardelsimage]

The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:
[LIST]
All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025
Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP[/QUOTE]

sounds good, but i not sure if there is enough youth players good enough to fulfill this (16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
i know its only 4 more teams technically, but the other pages are showing the gripes of parents/coaches/onlookers about ability, skill etc.

Why not make it one 12/14 team comp, with the chance of promotion/relegation from/to ZPL, this would sort out the contenders and the pretenders in all aspect's.
clubs should only have to have 16, 15, 14 and 13's youth teams, if someone is promoted the youth players float between clubs as they used to, its not like there is any loyalty currently.
Looking from the outside i think SAP is just a money making scam anyway.

[ranger]

Why not make it one 12/14 team comp, with the chance of promotion/relegation from/to ZPL, this would sort out the contenders and the pretenders in all aspect's.
clubs should only have to have 16, 15, 14 and 13's youth teams, if someone is promoted the youth players float between clubs as they used to, its not like there is any loyalty currently.
Looking from the outside i think SAP is just a money making scam anyway.[/QUOTE]

The quality from the 1st to the 12th/14th team would possibly be to much over the length of the season.

By having 3 npl tiers each different tiers quality would be closer from 1-8.

Promotion/relegation between them would ensure teams have something to play for all season.

I agree with stopping it at 13s, let the local clubs and training academies feed into the 3 npl tiers starting with 13s.

Leave zone league for the local clubs without juniors attached, or just community minded junior teams.

Once a zone league club gets serious/strong enough, let them push into npl 3.

Long term the demographic and population growth of Newcastle is changing, we need to have a system that let's newer clubs have a path to the top.

[Negative Police]

12 teams in top comp is too many. 10 max. And if 10 teams have last down and 2nd last playoff.

NPL 1 & 2 Juniors not aligned to seniors

[KITZ]

The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:
[LIST]
All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025
Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP

sounds good, but i not sure if there is enough youth players good enough to fulfill this (16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
i know its only 4 more teams technically, but the other pages are showing the gripes of parents/coaches/onlookers about ability, skill etc.

Why not make it one 12/14 team comp, with the chance of promotion/relegation from/to ZPL, this would sort out the contenders and the pretenders in all aspect's.
clubs should only have to have 16, 15, 14 and 13's youth teams, if someone is promoted the youth players float between clubs as they used to, its not like there is any loyalty currently.
Looking from the outside i think SAP is just a money making scam anyway.[/QUOTE]

why are we limiting player movement? If kids are good enough to be selected into an a-league academy, but the team has let 5 non-performing players go, are you saying they wouldn't then be allowed to leave? Kids leave for lots of reasons, some quit, some move, some simply aren't up to NPL standard, for example not turning up to training, stuffing around, being disrespectful. Yes theres kids like that taking up the place of another kid that actually wants to do the work and be there.

If the club had to then keep those players why should my kid get stuck playing with them, its inherently unfair to the rest of the team. You can't restrict movement, its like telling you that you don't have a choice and have to work at the same company for 6 years, even if a better offer comes up, or your boss beats you with a plank of wood every day.

Part of NPL is kids learning how to pull their weight and earn their place, that's why they don't want to play community football.

Also SAP was once upon a time a decent program. The kids coming through from the old SAP are still some of the best in NPL, the new program was never going to match that once it become a free for all. Its really disappointing to watch the forum to see the absolute debarcle of dick measuring it has become.

Even those kids that were once MQ, Newcastle, HV, can get in a team together at NPL level and get along, even though they came from different programs. With the club mentality now, that respect and decency that could have been imparted in those kids is out the window. Maybe northern needs to run an ethics class for the parents, because most of the ones on the forums seem to completely miss the point. It is slowly being diluted away to nothing, isn't it called a premier league or something next season? Its sad to see a development program end up that way.

[Jardelsimage]

sounds good, but i not sure if there is enough youth players good enough to fulfill this (16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
i know its only 4 more teams technically, but the other pages are showing the gripes of parents/coaches/onlookers about ability, skill etc.

Why not make it one 12/14 team comp, with the chance of promotion/relegation from/to ZPL, this would sort out the contenders and the pretenders in all aspect's.
clubs should only have to have 16, 15, 14 and 13's youth teams, if someone is promoted the youth players float between clubs as they used to, its not like there is any loyalty currently.
Looking from the outside i think SAP is just a money making scam anyway.

why are we limiting player movement? If kids are good enough to be selected into an a-league academy, but the team has let 5 non-performing players go, are you saying they wouldn't then be allowed to leave? Kids leave for lots of reasons, some quit, some move, some simply aren't up to NPL standard, for example not turning up to training, stuffing around, being disrespectful. Yes theres kids like that taking up the place of another kid that actually wants to do the work and be there.

If the club had to then keep those players why should my kid get stuck playing with them, its inherently unfair to the rest of the team. You can't restrict movement, its like telling you that you don't have a choice and have to work at the same company for 6 years, even if a better offer comes up, or your boss beats you with a plank of wood every day.

Part of NPL is kids learning how to pull their weight and earn their place, that's why they don't want to play community football.

Also SAP was once upon a time a decent program. The kids coming through from the old SAP are still some of the best in NPL, the new program was never going to match that once it become a free for all. Its really disappointing to watch the forum to see the absolute debarcle of dick measuring it has become.

Even those kids that were once MQ, Newcastle, HV, can get in a team together at NPL level and get along, even though they came from different programs. With the club mentality now, that respect and decency that could have been imparted in those kids is out the window. Maybe northern needs to run an ethics class for the parents, because most of the ones on the forums seem to completely miss the point. It is slowly being diluted away to nothing, isn't it called a premier league or something next season? Its sad to see a development program end up that way.[/QUOTE]

the original was not posted by me and i dont think we should be limiting player movement especially in youth or development stages.
It would be good to teach kids loyalty to clubs, but that went out the window years ago.
on kids learning how to pull there weight earn their place, i think that is part of the issue with our local football, there are still to many parents willing to pay for their child to play higher, just to boost their own ego's and to many clubs willing to take there money.

[Captain_Carl]

Has anyone heard of any proposed structure change? I know that 11 teams in NPL with a bye is not a popular decision with most clubs but looks like we will be stuck with it for at least a year. At what point does NNSWF look to creating two tiers? You would think to be feasible you would want at least 8 teams in each tier. Also, what about Youth NPL? With Cooks Hill joining that would take the number of teams to 13 next year, also including a bye. I think there is a big need for a two tier system in youth to prevent some blowout score lines and have similar ability level kids grouped together. My mate at the pub reckons that most of the club TDs are in favour of a two tiered system but there has been no comment from NNSWF about this yet. Does anyone have any updates?

[Oldy]

A bye in top grade is stupid. Only displays governing incompetence.

[ExWhistleMan]

You would think to be feasible you would want at least 8 teams in each tier.


It seems to be common sense to everyone except NNSWF. I am sure if you asked the perennial NPL strugglers they would want to stay in NPL, but to me the two tiers of 8 with promotion and relegation would be better for the clubs long term and certainly better for football in NNSW. Promotion and relegation specifically, even if it means dropping the NPL badge. As someone who spent a lot of time around NL1, my impression is the players didn't seem to be enjoying their football (with some exceptions of course) or very engaged. The little activity in the NL1 thread in this forum demonstrates the lack of interest in the competition.
It is a nothing league as it stands. It's not like its full of players that are pushing for NPL, most players either at the back end of their careers or young guys that became too old for U20's and couldn't crack first grade in the NPL.

EDIT: I Should clarify I am only discussing Senior NL1

[Alan]

Has anyone heard of any proposed structure change? I know that 11 teams in NPL with a bye is not a popular decision with most clubs but looks like we will be stuck with it for at least a year. At what point does NNSWF look to creating two tiers? You would think to be feasible you would want at least 8 teams in each tier. Also, what about Youth NPL? With Cooks Hill joining that would take the number of teams to 13 next year, also including a bye. I think there is a big need for a two tier system in youth to prevent some blowout score lines and have similar ability level kids grouped together. My mate at the pub reckons that most of the club TDs are in favour of a two tiered system but there has been no comment from NNSWF about this yet. Does anyone have any updates?

Hi Skipper,

I am involved with a NEWFM club in the younger age groups and we have heard diddly squat on the proposed changes to Youth in Northern. Yes, Cooks Hill will join NPL Youth, but what happens with the rest of the comp is unknown. It's infuriating.

A

[Bremsstrahlung]

If we work on a model of 16 clubs, being split into NPL1 and NPL2 with promotion and relegation between them.
- play teams 3 times. 21 rounds
-finals series

For youth, I’d love to see them all under the same banner of NPL Youth. Working on a 16 team model, can easily add in a few more if wanted.
- 2 x groups split into pool A and Pool B based on some kind of grading of even just NPL1 and NPL2 initially.
- option a: play your own group twice (14 games) and the other group once (8games) - 22 rounds plus finals (finals are top
4 In each pool)
Gives clubs in pool B an opportunity to play those better teams, but not have their whole season dedicated to it. Also may expose some of the better teams to different tactics Eg maybe a pool b teams fancies playing physical or long ball ball, something Pool a team isn’t used to.
Also have some kind of unofficial promotion relegation between the two pools. Eg maybe 3 up 3 down if the results skew that way.

-option b: 16 teams all play eachother in phase 1. (15 rounds). Then split top 8 and bottom 8 each season into pools for a final rounds (7 games) before finals.
- 23 games plus finals.

The downside. Is it really elite if there’s 16 teams? And does it just mask any issues? Logistically unless it’s a club championship, separating age groups from clubs could be challenging to organise. Does it defeat the point if each age is not graded in some way.

The benefits, imo. In theory allows clubs to develop players from SAP into their NPL Youth set ups more seemlessly. Eg players may not leave say Magic SAP to go join NPL1 club Belswans NPL youth program cause they wanna play NPL1. When in4-5 years belswans may be in NPL2 and Magic into NPL1 etc. other than coaching there’s no real benefit to switching between clubs. Or some aspects are negated.
Also think it exposes teams to a bigger variety of opponents.
Theoretically, allows clubs and teams to focus on development of players. it’s all a dickwaving contest in some ways. Players wanting to play in the best comp. this somewhat rebrands it all into the same comp.

[Captain_Carl]

If we work on a model of 16 clubs, being split into NPL1 and NPL2 with promotion and relegation between them.
- play teams 3 times. 21 rounds
-finals series

For youth, I’d love to see them all under the same banner of NPL Youth. Working on a 16 team model, can easily add in a few more if wanted.
- 2 x groups split into pool A and Pool B based on some kind of grading of even just NPL1 and NPL2 initially.
- option a: play your own group twice (14 games) and the other group once (8games) - 22 rounds plus finals (finals are top
4 In each pool)
Gives clubs in pool B an opportunity to play those better teams, but not have their whole season dedicated to it. Also may expose some of the better teams to different tactics Eg maybe a pool b teams fancies playing physical or long ball ball, something Pool a team isnÂ’t used to.
Also have some kind of unofficial promotion relegation between the two pools. Eg maybe 3 up 3 down if the results skew that way.

-option b: 16 teams all play eachother in phase 1. (15 rounds). Then split top 8 and bottom 8 each season into pools for a final rounds (7 games) before finals.
- 23 games plus finals.

The downside. Is it really elite if thereÂ’s 16 teams? And does it just mask any issues? Logistically unless itÂ’s a club championship, separating age groups from clubs could be challenging to organise. Does it defeat the point if each age is not graded in some way.

The benefits, imo. In theory allows clubs to develop players from SAP into their NPL Youth set ups more seemlessly. Eg players may not leave say Magic SAP to go join NPL1 club Belswans NPL youth program cause they wanna play NPL1. When in4-5 years belswans may be in NPL2 and Magic into NPL1 etc. other than coaching thereÂ’s no real benefit to switching between clubs. Or some aspects are negated.
Also think it exposes teams to a bigger variety of opponents.
Theoretically, allows clubs and teams to focus on development of players. itÂ’s all a dickwaving contest in some ways. Players wanting to play in the best comp. this somewhat rebrands it all into the same comp.


I agree with many of your ideas but here is where I differ a little. Under Football AustraliaÂ’s ‘XI PrinciplesÂ’, principle V is “More football, more often: increasing match minutes for youth players”. https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2020-10/FFA_X11_Principles_Final_Edition.pdf

I agree there should be 2 tiers of 8 teams and these tiers called NPL 1 and NPL 2. Importantly, there should be a separation of seniors and youth. If a club has their senior and youth teams all in NPL1 and senior team is relegated but their youth are performing well, the youth teams should not be punished for this and should remain in the top tier.

For seniors the 8 teams could play each other 3 times like you said for a 21 game season or perhaps 4 times for a 28 game season (if the appetite is there).
For youth the 8 teams must play each other 4 times for 28 games. The downside of this is the monotony of playing the same teams so many times. It would have to be based on a club championship model such as that used in NSW NPL. Does 28 games + finals mean an extended season? Not necessarily. A mid week game could be scheduled once every few weeks to fit the extra games in. Then comes the next problem. North Coast and Mid Coast. Not practical to do mid week games there.

I don’t think there is an easy fix but I think as long as we come up with a model where the best are playing the best, more games are played and we have a separation between seniors and youth (with promotion and relegation an absolute must) we are headed in the right direction.

[W8 WATCHER]

My post is on a slightly different tangent but probably appropriate under the thread:

What do people think the ideal NNSWF NPL structure should look like?

My opinion is the below (all based on current 1st grade standings and nothing to do with the clubs themselves)

NPL 1
8 teams
Edgeworth - Magic - Olympic - Azzurri - Maitland - Jaffas - Weston - Valentine

NPL 2
8 teams
Adamstown - Lakes - New Lambton - Singleton - Kahibah - Belswans - Cooks Hill - West Wallsend

NPL 3
8 teams
Toronto - Cessnock - South Cardiff - Thornton - Wallsend + 3(E.g. Cardiff, Swansea, Hamilton Azzurri, Mayfield, etc or any of Northern Inland, Mid Coast or Far Nth Coast)


The plan could be to achieve this within a few seasons.

Season 1 (2021 for example only)

Competitions maintain current structure
9th, 10th & 11th at the end of the season in NPL 1 are relegated to NPL 2/NL1 for 2022
Expressions of interest called upon for the NPL 3 extra clubs required for Season 2023


2022

NPL 1 is 8 teams in a 21 or ideally 28 game season
NPL 2/NL1 is 13 teams in a 24 game season
Promotion/Relegation and Play off games occur between NPL 1 & NPL 2
Positions 9-13 in NPL 2 are relegated to NPL 3 for season 2023


2023 & onwards

The clubs selected as part of the EOI's in 2021 are added to NPL 3
NPL 1, 2 & 3 run as 8 team competitions
4 team finals
Last in NPL 1 & 2 auto relegate
Play off games between second last NPL 1 & 2 home and away play off with second place in NPL 2 & 3
First in NPL 2 & 3 auto promote


The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.
Must have teams in all competitions - 1sts, reserves, 18's (Seniors) 16's, 15's, 14's & 13's (Youth) & 12's, 11's, 10's & 9's (SAP)
For the new 3 teams they could receive dispensation that they need:

All seniors teams by 2023
All youth & SAP teams by 2025


Changes would be required to the player points system to enforce stricter controls on player retention & recruitment as mentioned in the earlier posts in this thread.
Implement PPS or limitations on movement between clubs at the Youth & SAP level.

I think the main point of discussion would be around promotion/relegation criteria and whether it would be based on:
Regular season standings?
GF Winner/Runner Ups promote?
Senior club championship?
Senior + Youth club championship?

Interested to hear others thoughts on this. Is there a better way forward? Is it pie in the sky?

Aegon your definitely not Dave Eland, that for sure nor work at NNSWF...lol
only change for me is remove valentine as well to 2nd tier, and put Cooks Hill up, i believe Valo, Buds and Lakes have had more then enough chances to get there shit together, and every year provide absolute shit to the competition,
basically finishing in bottom 3, across most of all there grades
just my opinion

[Goatscheese]

If people don’t agree with promotion and relegation then why not have a play off for the spot that the last placed NPL team plays of against the premiers of the 1st Div at the home ground of the 1st Div premiers? This would attract huge interest and be a big cash injection for both clubs but even more so for the home side and double as a leg up to compete financial for both sides the following season.

I'd like to see NL1 Premiers (top of the table after season) get automatic promotion and then the grand final winner (or grand finalist if winner is Premier) play a home and away series against 10th. 11th is automatically relegated.

[Goatscheese]

The main caveats would be that all clubs move towards certain goals, for example financial, playing field, etc.

The issue sits here, the big problem is that most clubs if any own their grounds, there are many clubs who have complete control of their grounds but quite a few in NL1 don't and have to share with other clubs/sports and then don't get the approval from council to upgrade these council fields.

If we put in these sort of rules where is the incentive for these clubs? Particularly if you want to bring in new clubs.

[Aegon]

Aegon your definitely not Dave Eland, that for sure nor work at NNSWF...lol
only change for me is remove valentine as well to 2nd tier, and put Cooks Hill up, i believe Valo, Buds and Lakes have had more then enough chances to get there shit together, and every year provide absolute shit to the competition,
basically finishing in bottom 3, across most of all there grades
just my opinion

I'd definitely change things since I posted that originally.
Main thing would be a complete decouple of Youth/SAP from the proposed NPL structure.

[ExWhistleMan]

..... then the grand final winner (or grand finalist if winner is Premier) play a home and away series against 10th. 11th is automatically relegated.

This would by far be the best games of the season in the whole NNSW. I'd take watching them over a grand final any day.

[W8 WATCHER]

This would by far be the best games of the season in the whole NNSW. I'd take watching them over a grand final any day.

totally agree

[Oldy]

This would by far be the best games of the season in the whole NNSW. I'd take watching them over a grand final any day.

Was suggest earlier somewhere.

Last down, 1st up. Then 2nd last playoff with 2nd or Gfinalist. Like in Scotland.

At least have some movement. This 3 to 5 yr Stalinist cycle hasnt helped anything.

[terry]

I agree with many of your ideas but here is where I differ a little. Under Football AustraliaÂ’s ‘XI PrinciplesÂ’, principle V is “More football, more often: increasing match minutes for youth players”. https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2020-10/FFA_X11_Principles_Final_Edition.pdf

I agree there should be 2 tiers of 8 teams and these tiers called NPL 1 and NPL 2. Importantly, there should be a separation of seniors and youth. If a club has their senior and youth teams all in NPL1 and senior team is relegated but their youth are performing well, the youth teams should not be punished for this and should remain in the top tier.


Rather 10 in the top grade. 8 to 12 in NPL1.

[Hunter403]

I agree with many of your ideas but here is where I differ a little. Under Football AustraliaÂ’s ‘XI PrinciplesÂ’, principle V is “More football, more often: increasing match minutes for youth players”. https://www.footballaustralia.com.au/sites/ffa/files/2020-10/FFA_X11_Principles_Final_Edition.pdf



The more minutes the better is a great concept if the standard of those minutes is of a high enough standard. More minutes against significantly weaker opponents helps no one.

Two tiers of 8 in Senior NPL 1 and 2
Youth decoupled and with extra spaces for North Coast, Northern Inland and Far North Coast.

Expand both senior and junior levels when the quality of all teams warrants it.

Promo and relegation a must.
Youth levels settled by club championship model.

[Captain_Carl]

Goodness knows where this will end up. De-coupling is definitely on the cards.

[Goatscheese]

Easy idea,

Youth teams play each other once. At the end on a club championship level split the competition up into two. All teams keep their points, and the two groups play each other twice. Get rid of finals, winner of the top group are declared Premiers.

[Captain_Carl]

Who is listening to our ideas?

[matmoncrieff]

Something like this will do

https://footballqueensland.com.au/2019/11/28/football-queensland-confirms-new-structure-for-2020-npl-junior-competition/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X2sDKc1Snc

[Captain_Carl]

Something like this will do

https://footballqueensland.com.au/2019/11/28/football-queensland-confirms-new-structure-for-2020-npl-junior-competition/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X2sDKc1Snc

Looks pretty good to me. They have definitely put a lot of thought into it. I wonder how it has worked for them? It would be good to see a similar approach here.

[Goatscheese]

Something like this will do

https://footballqueensland.com.au/2019/11/28/football-queensland-confirms-new-structure-for-2020-npl-junior-competition/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X2sDKc1Snc

Is there opportunity for teams to move up and down pools?

[JustMe]

Is there opportunity for teams to move up and down pools?

Would have to. It's a pretty solid model to give performing teams the best chance for promotion.

NNSW could have all their work done without lifting a finger. Just hope they can be bothered to change the logos for their video.

[Goatscheese]

Would have to. It's a pretty solid model to give performing teams the best chance for promotion.

NNSW could have all their work done without lifting a finger. Just hope they can be bothered to change the logos for their video.

That would still be too much effort for them