2021 Premier Club SAP

[boz-monaut]

discussion here

[Aegon]

Should this thread title be changed to 2021 JDL or Junior Development Leagues in line with the NNSWF name change?

[sideline88]

I see Central Coast United announcing Trials for Junior Development League with NNSW for this season for both the boys and girls comps.

[Bremsstrahlung]

I see Central Coast United announcing Trials for Junior Development League with NNSW for this season for both the boys and girls comps.

https://www.ccutd.com/jdl-boys

[KITZ]

Merewether WPL are still looking for a few girls for their under 11 JDL, and a goalkeeper. Great bunch of girls all come together as a new team end of last year so lots of friendly new faces. training is 5pm - 6pm Mon, Tue, Thur. Some girls come all three nights some can only make it two, they are all having a great time and learning lots.

[Aegon]

Northern NSW Football has determined to conduct a series of 6 v 6 games on the small sided courts at its headquarters at the Lake Macquarie Regional Football Facility, Speers Point for the first 3 rounds of the competition starting in mid March.

Northern NSW Football has stated that:
• Each team will play a minimum of 2 matches per weekend, meaning a total of 6 matches over 3 weekends.
• Matches will be 2 x 15min halves.
• Ideally teams will play their two matches back-to-back to avoid parents having to stay around the facility for several hours.
• Matches will be scheduled on Saturday and Sunday; however, teams will only be scheduled to play on either Saturday or Sunday on each weekend.
• Matches will be played under Football Fives rules, which will be distributed closer to the start of the season.
• Northern NSW Technical staff will be in attendance at all JDL Fives days.
• Fixtures for rounds 1-3 will be released by 26th February.

Under 11s and Under 12 specifics:
• Further to the above, given the potential size of squads for these age groups –matches will be 6-a-side (6 players each on the field at any time).
• For clubs with 13 or 14 registered players (on PlayFootball) in the under 11s or under 12s, there is an opportunity to split each JDL team into 2 Fives teams to ensure players are getting adequate match time throughout the 3 week period. These teams can be rotated and changed on a game by game basis, there will be no restrictive rules on who can play for each team, other than noting that teams may play at the same time so must be self sufficient.
over 6 games or 12 half games to satisfy appropriate playing time for all players.

[Aegon]

I do not see the point at all of the above.

The fields aren't big enough for 6v6
I have no idea what the driving force behind this is except to maybe make it easier for the NNSWF staff to see the players.
Small sided 5v5 or 6v6 is not going to be a true reflection on how some players actually perform in real games.
Using the small sided games to determine how teams are allocated into the appropriate competition level is a farce.

[Jim]

I do not see the point at all of the above.

The fields aren't big enough for 6v6
I have no idea what the driving force behind this is except to maybe make it easier for the NNSWF staff to see the players.
Small sided 5v5 or 6v6 is not going to be a true reflection on how some players actually perform in real games.
Using the small sided games to determine how teams are allocated into the appropriate competition level is a farce.

Ridiculous. Therell be no one watching. nnsw want 3 weeks of rent or are just pretending that they are doing something.

[Johnno]

Ridiculous. Therell be no one watching. nnsw want 3 weeks of rent or are just pretending that they are doing something.

Revenue raising exercise. They haven’t even got a Technical Director have they? No one replaced Clacka after his short stay!!!!!

[scowling]

It's not clear to me whether clubs will be charged for this exercise, so I'm not sure revenue raising is the reason... But, it's also not clear what the motivation is here.

It's obvious to most people I've spoken to that this will not satisfactorily produce the stated outcome so why do it? It's not much better than just asking clubs to grade their own teams

I don't understand why they can't run essentially the same format but on the bigger fields with the correct number of players? What's the benefit to them to run it in the cages? It's not like grading teams gets easier in the cages.. is it?

I agree grading will make for a better development environment - but I just don't see their process working.

Looking forward to the season though.

[Goatscheese]

For clubs with 13 or 14 registered players (on PlayFootball) in the under 11s or under 12s, there is an opportunity to split each JDL team into 2 Fives teams to ensure players are getting adequate match time throughout the 3 week period.


Clubs who have taken 14 players for a 9 a side team have got to look at themselves. Fancy having 5 substitutes for an hour match.

[Goatscheese]

I don't understand why they can't run essentially the same format but on the bigger fields with the correct number of players? What's the benefit to them to run it in the cages? It's not like grading teams gets easier in the cages.. is it?

The only reason I can see is that they can get 8 games going at once and not 4.



I agree grading will make for a better development environment - but I just don't see their process working.

They started off well with clubs to record their scores so that Northern can grade them properly but give it 8 weeks under normal conditions

[sideline88]

Clubs who have taken 14 players for a 9 a side team have got to look at themselves. Fancy having 5 substitutes for an hour match.

100% agree. But it happens. clubs out there with way too many players, yet even up to this week others are still reaching out trying to fill teams.

[sapdad]

It's not clear to me whether clubs will be charged for this exercise, so I'm not sure revenue raising is the reason... But, it's also not clear what the motivation is here.

It's obvious to most people I've spoken to that this will not satisfactorily produce the stated outcome so why do it? It's not much better than just asking clubs to grade their own teams

I don't understand why they can't run essentially the same format but on the bigger fields with the correct number of players? What's the benefit to them to run it in the cages? It's not like grading teams gets easier in the cages.. is it?

I agree grading will make for a better development environment - but I just don't see their process working.

Looking forward to the season though.

just poll the coaches especially in 11s and 12s. They will all know straight away who the strongest clubs are. would have been solved in 5mins.
its been clear from the start the better teams dont want to be winning 30 nil every week. the teams getting beat 30 nil every week dont want their kids getting flogged.
the stronger teams will want to be in the top division, the ones needing more development will want to be separated.
this 5 a side idea solves nothing.

[Alan]

just poll the coaches especially in 11s and 12s. They will all know straight away who the strongest clubs are. would have been solved in 5mins.
its been clear from the start the better teams dont want to be winning 30 nil every week. the teams getting beat 30 nil every week dont want their kids getting flogged.
the stronger teams will want to be in the top division, the ones needing more development will want to be separated.
this 5 a side idea solves nothing.

Hi guys. Happy new year to you all.

At the end of last season we were asked to submit results from our games to Northern as these were to be used to grade the teams this season. So, this 5 v 5 comp shouldn’t be necessary.

Some may say that teams may have changed since then, and while this is true, I believe teams will largely be similar in strength. A 5 a side comp isn’t going to tell anyway anything different than they already know.

If anyone from Northern reads these forums, could you come on and explain the reasons/benefits of this change in format? The memos sent out only advise of the change without any explanation for it.

A

[onlooker]

Maitland WPL U/13’s is chasing a goal keeper for the upcoming season. If anyone knows of someone who might be interested get them to contact me on 0421646037

Cheers Cal

[Alan]

Maitland WPL U/13’s is chasing a goal keeper for the upcoming season. If anyone knows of someone who might be interested get them to contact me on 0421646037

Cheers Cal

Good luck with the search Cal.

While u are here - has there been much movement around the Maitland Academy? Was told before Xmas that GVE was to be involved. Has this got going?

A

[onlooker]

Good luck with the search Cal.

While u are here - has there been much movement around the Maitland Academy? Was told before Xmas that GVE was to be involved. Has this got going?

A

Mate I do know that there was an Advanced WPL game training clinic run by Gary and Paul Gomez that went on in January. Held at Maitland, wether that is apart of the academy set up I’m not to sure.

[Retired01]

just poll the coaches especially in 11s and 12s. They will all know straight away who the strongest clubs are. would have been solved in 5mins.
its been clear from the start the better teams dont want to be winning 30 nil every week. the teams getting beat 30 nil every week dont want their kids getting flogged.
the stronger teams will want to be in the top division, the ones needing more development will want to be separated.
this 5 a side idea solves nothing.

Wasn't it stated last season that its all about forcing the kids to get more touches on the ball and be involved? NSW Football did an audit and found kids were getting minimal touches on the bigger pitches?
Maybe the idea is that the kids cant hide or be bypassed when locked into a small area. You may find the stronger teams aren't as free flowing once a new set of skills is needed and weaker kids occupying space.

[sapdad]

Wasn't it stated last season that its all about forcing the kids to get more touches on the ball and be involved? NSW Football did an audit and found kids were getting minimal touches on the bigger pitches?
Maybe the idea is that the kids cant hide or be bypassed when locked into a small area. You may find the stronger teams aren't as free flowing once a new set of skills is needed and weaker kids occupying space.

Not sure of the report you are referring to, so theres no way ill disagree.It can be looked at two ways. the smaller pitch can mean that bigger stronger faster kids just end up in an under 5's style cluster of kids competing for the ball.
One thing from watching kids go from 9's go through to the now 12's age group, is that the better teams (and therefore coaches) teach the kids how to use the space on the park, how to drag defenders to open channels and how to still be involved and contributing when they dont have the ball.Thats a really big skill for the kids and its often overlooked.The better teams in the older age groups are all playing through and around teams with the ball. players are working off the ball to create space for others and there is definitely a level of football IQ being introduced to the kids.
Any teams in those age groups booting long balls and hoping for the best are getting found out. Thats why i dont think the small side games give a good representation of the 11s and 12s when its just to grade the kids for a totally different format.

[sapdad]

Maybe the idea is that the kids cant hide or be bypassed when locked into a small area. You may find the stronger teams aren't as free flowing once a new set of skills is needed and weaker kids occupying space.

But just to clarify I totally agree on your point here.The very best kids in the program will thrive in any format.But there are kids who's game and skills are better suited to a bigger field.The one folly in the program has always been trying to use the cirriculum to produce just one type of player.teams need a variety of talents,and most teams in the program have a pretty good balance.The better coaches seem to have taken the strengths of the kids they have and highlighted the good and worked on the bad.

[Jim]

Would have joined a futsal comp if the lads wanted to play that. Maybe as a preseason day. Plus it cuts bigger sided games down for the season the season.

[Aegon]

Would have joined a futsal comp if the lads wanted to play that. Maybe as a preseason day. Plus it cuts bigger sided games down for the season the season.

Not to mention it reduces the amount of actual playing time for all players.
Each season there is a gradual reduction in time spent on the field.

[sideline88]

Not to mention it reduces the amount of actual playing time for all players.
Each season there is a gradual reduction in time spent on the field.

how have past years been ran PRE-2020? Ive only been involved since last season which was 2-3 rounds longer than the regular community football season?

[KITZ]

Because that's not what junior development is about. there is NO point going to a bigger field if you can only control the ball with your first touch 50% of the time. If you don't have those 4 core skills nailed (1v1, first touch, passing / striking the ball, and running with the ball) then you will only fall further and further behind. Because they just don't have the time in NPL to go back and teach you ball control, when the ball is kicked from the goal keeper and you consistently can't get it under control. Forget about the type of player, forget about the team. Even if a team is winning 10 nil, it doesn't mean they are nailing those skills, and it will only become really apparent when all of a sudden they play with a different team, or they want to move up a division and play with better kids. Junior development is not about the GAME. that's what the game training phase is for, but they can't teach that phase properly if the kids aren't drilled until their eyes bleed in those four core skills.

The best advice I'd give any parent going into any development program now is to forget about what everyone else is doing and just make sure your player nails those 4 core skills, kids that have poor first touch will fall away from the higher divisions as they get older and the kids that have it nailed are moving onto more advanced game training.

[sapdad]

Because that's not what junior development is about. there is NO point going to a bigger field if you can only control the ball with your first touch 50% of the time. If you don't have those 4 core skills nailed (1v1, first touch, passing / striking the ball, and running with the ball) then you will only fall further and further behind. Because they just don't have the time in NPL to go back and teach you ball control, when the ball is kicked from the goal keeper and you consistently can't get it under control. Forget about the type of player, forget about the team. Even if a team is winning 10 nil, it doesn't mean they are nailing those skills, and it will only become really apparent when all of a sudden they play with a different team, or they want to move up a division and play with better kids. Junior development is not about the GAME. that's what the game training phase is for, but they can't teach that phase properly if the kids aren't drilled until their eyes bleed in those four core skills.

The best advice I'd give any parent going into any development program now is to forget about what everyone else is doing and just make sure your player nails those 4 core skills, kids that have poor first touch will fall away from the higher divisions as they get older and the kids that have it nailed are moving onto more advanced game training.

in a vacuum for sure its the only thing that matters.Unfortunately by the time the kids get to 12's, training gn 2/3 nights a week then playing on weekends they need to have the fun/social aspect of the sport.The games are important to keep up their competitive side, their fitness and their overall knowledge of the game.they will just get bored and head elsewhere if its monotonous lessons all the time.
to be clear i agree with everything you said. but the practicalities of it are the games are becoming more and more important as they get older so clubs need to cater for more aspects of the game at the older ages (empasis on older ages - no way 9s or 10s) .its a fine balance but the better teams across the 12's age groups are the ones who have the kids with the best skills.its all self perpetuating as far as im concerned. all im saying is that it doesnt take a 5 aside comp on a few weekends to know this.

[Aegon]

how have past years been ran PRE-2020? Ive only been involved since last season which was 2-3 rounds longer than the regular community football season?

Initially it was 22 rounds with 2x games per round. 40 minute games
Last year was 22 rounds with 1 game per round. 60 minute games.
This year is 18 (maybe even 16) rounds with 1 game per round. 60 minute halves.

[Aegon]

KITZ, I disagree.

Training is where you learn & develop the 4 core skills.
Games are where you learn how use the 4 core skills.

No amount of training can replicate game time learning.

This is true from foundation level at sports all the way through to professional players.

[Jim]

Because that's not what junior development is about. there is NO point going to a bigger field if you can only control the ball with your first touch 50% of the time. If you don't have those 4 core skills nailed (1v1, first touch, passing / striking the ball, and running with the ball) then you will only fall further and further behind. Because they just don't have the time in NPL to go back and teach you ball control, when the ball is kicked from the goal keeper and you consistently can't get it under control. Forget about the type of player, forget about the team. Even if a team is winning 10 nil, it doesn't mean they are nailing those skills, and it will only become really apparent when all of a sudden they play with a different team, or they want to move up a division and play with better kids. Junior development is not about the GAME. that's what the game training phase is for, but they can't teach that phase properly if the kids aren't drilled until their eyes bleed in those four core skills.

The best advice I'd give any parent going into any development program now is to forget about what everyone else is doing and just make sure your player nails those 4 core skills, kids that have poor first touch will fall away from the higher divisions as they get older and the kids that have it nailed are moving onto more advanced game training.

1st paragraph is double dip diarrhea. Everyone just ignore that one.

2nd paragraph is about right.

[Goatscheese]

Because that's not what junior development is about. there is NO point going to a bigger field if you can only control the ball with your first touch 50% of the time. If you don't have those 4 core skills nailed (1v1, first touch, passing / striking the ball, and running with the ball) then you will only fall further and further behind. Because they just don't have the time in NPL to go back and teach you ball control, when the ball is kicked from the goal keeper and you consistently can't get it under control. Forget about the type of player, forget about the team. Even if a team is winning 10 nil, it doesn't mean they are nailing those skills, and it will only become really apparent when all of a sudden they play with a different team, or they want to move up a division and play with better kids. Junior development is not about the GAME. that's what the game training phase is for, but they can't teach that phase properly if the kids aren't drilled until their eyes bleed in those four core skills.

The best advice I'd give any parent going into any development program now is to forget about what everyone else is doing and just make sure your player nails those 4 core skills, kids that have poor first touch will fall away from the higher divisions as they get older and the kids that have it nailed are moving onto more advanced game training.

The game allows them to put those skills and develop their skills as a player, more time and more touches on the ball will help improve their individual skills.

Game Training isn't about the GAME either, game training is about developing skills to play the game as a team and learning how the team comes together to play.

The only time when it is about the GAME is when they become seniors and that is winning.

[BS detecor]

Because that's not what junior development is about. there is NO point going to a bigger field if you can only control the ball with your first touch 50% of the time. If you don't have those 4 core skills nailed (1v1, first touch, passing / striking the ball, and running with the ball) then you will only fall further and further behind. Because they just don't have the time in NPL to go back and teach you ball control, when the ball is kicked from the goal keeper and you consistently can't get it under control. Forget about the type of player, forget about the team. Even if a team is winning 10 nil, it doesn't mean they are nailing those skills, and it will only become really apparent when all of a sudden they play with a different team, or they want to move up a division and play with better kids. Junior development is not about the GAME. that's what the game training phase is for, but they can't teach that phase properly if the kids aren't drilled until their eyes bleed in those four core skills.

The best advice I'd give any parent going into any development program now is to forget about what everyone else is doing and just make sure your player nails those 4 core skills, kids that have poor first touch will fall away from the higher divisions as they get older and the kids that have it nailed are moving onto more advanced game training.

I’d go 1 step further and say to any parent sending their kid into a development program to just make sure their kid falls in love with the game. If they don’t want to live and breath the game, it doesn’t matter how good their touch is

[sapdad]

The game allows them to put those skills and develop their skills as a player, more time and more touches on the ball will help improve their individual skills.

Game Training isn't about the GAME either, game training is about developing skills to play the game as a team and learning how the team comes together to play.

The only time when it is about the GAME is when they become seniors and that is winning.

i agree with this.The way i read KITZ post was something similar.There is absolutely a difference between teams that train to win games and teams that train to put their skills into games.Im just saying that the teams that train to put their skills into games are the teams that end up winning way more anyway.I havent seen enough NPL youth to know if the emphasis on skills is thrown out the window from 13's but hopefully the first crop of SAP kids going in next year retain that priority.

[sapdad]

I’d go 1 step further and say to any parent sending their kid into a development program to just make sure their kid falls in love with the game. If they don’t want to live and breath the game, it doesn’t matter how good their touch is

Agree here too.Im already seeing some pretty wary kids in the program entering year 4 and the line between being super serious and looking miserable is getting blurred.Sadly i think a fair bit of the misery in inflicted by parents.We've been lucky in that there has always been a very defined line between the kids and the parents at training and games.But some places ive been i see a lot of sideline coaching at training let alone games by parents.Ive yet to see a kid turn around and say "thanks for yelling at me in front of my friends dad i am really going to take on board what you've said".

[Eastwest]

I’d go 1 step further and say to any parent sending their kid into a development program to just make sure their kid falls in love with the game. If they don’t want to live and breath the game, it doesn’t matter how good their touch is

correct.

I think the futsal idea should only be used as an extra. Taking away other game time is a farce. You can do 3v3 4v4 at training or any other day to get those all important touches, striking etc.

[BS detecor]

Agree here too.Im already seeing some pretty wary kids in the program entering year 4 and the line between being super serious and looking miserable is getting blurred.Sadly i think a fair bit of the misery in inflicted by parents.We've been lucky in that there has always been a very defined line between the kids and the parents at training and games.But some places ive been i see a lot of sideline coaching at training let alone games by parents.Ive yet to see a kid turn around and say "thanks for yelling at me in front of my friends dad i am really going to take on board what you've said".

Here’s a good barometer. Does the kid grab a ball and have a kick with his mates, does he have a player he looks up to or does he just play when you drag him to training. Even the most serious players need a place where they can express themselves without fear of failure and they will learn more in those environments than they ever will in a structured training session.

[sapdad]

I saw on social media over the weekend New Lambton looking for a JDL 10's coach for this year.I thought Steve on here was the coach,hope everything is ok if hes not coaching.New Lambton seem to have and a lot of turnover of coaches this year and advertising this late would be concerning for parents forking out good money.Is that normal?

[Aegon]

I saw on social media over the weekend New Lambton looking for a JDL 10's coach for this year.I thought Steve on here was the coach,hope everything is ok if hes not coaching.New Lambton seem to have and a lot of turnover of coaches this year and advertising this late would be concerning for parents forking out good money.Is that normal?

Coaching SAP/JDL is an altogether different level of commitment than at the community level. When you consider that we now have JDL boys U9-12 and girls U10-12 (I think) this is around 140 teams.
So 140 coaches in the Newcastle area required to train kids for 2-3 sessions a week for very little return.

I'm surprised more clubs aren't still trying to find coaches.

It's hard as it is just filling teams with players for some clubs.

[Aegon]

@boz-monaut

Can you please update the name of this from "Premier Club SAP" to "Junior Development League"?

[sapdad]

Coaching SAP/JDL is an altogether different level of commitment than at the community level. When you consider that we now have JDL boys U9-12 and girls U10-12 (I think) this is around 140 teams.
So 140 coaches in the Newcastle area required to train kids for 2-3 sessions a week for very little return.

I'm surprised more clubs aren't still trying to find coaches.

It's hard as it is just filling teams with players for some clubs.

im not arguing its difficult to find coaches.im just saying that putting out expressions of interest after fees have been paid would be concerning for parents who have paid good money thinking they are getting a better level of coaching.Clubs are already out there trialling and in full training mode.If my kid was yet to be appointed a coach id be concerned they were getting value for money.

[scowling]

I saw on social media over the weekend New Lambton looking for a JDL 10's coach for this year.I thought Steve on here was the coach,hope everything is ok if hes not coaching.New Lambton seem to have and a lot of turnover of coaches this year and advertising this late would be concerning for parents forking out good money.Is that normal?

G'day SapDad - yeah I'm still coaching this year; we only had one U9 team last year and have moved to two U10 teams hence the need for an extra coach.
I've tried coaching all 20+ kids at once and it's bloody difficult.

[KITZ]

im not arguing its difficult to find coaches.im just saying that putting out expressions of interest after fees have been paid would be concerning for parents who have paid good money thinking they are getting a better level of coaching.Clubs are already out there trialling and in full training mode.If my kid was yet to be appointed a coach id be concerned they were getting value for money.

Do you need more than the basic game training certificate to coach JDL?

[sapdad]

G'day SapDad - yeah I'm still coaching this year; we only had one U9 team last year and have moved to two U10 teams hence the need for an extra coach.
I've tried coaching all 20+ kids at once and it's bloody difficult.

Good to hear.All the best for the season ahead.

[Game_over]

Do you need more than the basic game training certificate to coach JDL?

The minimum requirements from Northern is the skills training certificate

[Aegon]

Do you need more than the basic game training certificate to coach JDL?

There's a difference between having a training certificate and being able to effectively train kids at JDL ages.

I did the training certificates in the past but there is no comparison between what my sons coaches have delivered and what I could have in their place. When you are talking about the 4 core skills implementing them with the correct technique learned through experience is a huge advantage over someone who has been taught how they should be done in a classroom or in a quick overview session at Speers point.

I am hopeful that all the clubs are not just selecting dads or mums with a certificate but are trying to find the most effective coaches available.

[scowling]

There's a difference between having a training certificate and being able to effectively train kids at JDL ages.
...
I am hopeful that all the clubs are not just selecting dads or mums with a certificate but are trying to find the most effective coaches available.

Agreed Aegon.

I'd add however that there needs to be a balance; it's undeniably hard for clubs to find volunteers for any job, let alone one as taxing and time consuming as coaching a JDL team.
And because of the demands of the role there needs to be an underlying desire to want to do it, and a desire to go beyond the 8 hours of face time at Speers Point Skills training and to continue to learn and develop your skills.
This, is not for everyone. I'm certainly not going to forge a new career as a coach, but the person who I am allows me to put the time and effort in to be the best coach I can be right now. We can't expect that of all "Dads/Mums" who find themselves in this position.

If clubs are "only" going to place parents into JDL coaching roles then they need to develop the structure to support those coaches; and I 100% believe NLFC is doing it's best with this. Bringing in Cas Wright last year and Clayton Zane this year gives lowly parent-coaches like me someone to pump for information and lean on when you're in that mid-season drag...

[scowling]

The minimum requirements from Northern is the skills training certificate

As I mention in my other post, the skills training certificate should just be the beginning - although I'm sure it's not this for everyone

[Game_over]

As I mention in my other post, the skills training certificate should just be the beginning - although I'm sure it's not this for everyone

Totally agree with Aegon and Scowling. To coach in JDL the coaches need to have a desire to continue to grow as well. This can be done personally, but at the good clubs that are supporting their coaches the most effective growth will be from learning from other more experienced coaches.

[Aegon]

Agreed Aegon.

I'd add however that there needs to be a balance; it's undeniably hard for clubs to find volunteers for any job, let alone one as taxing and time consuming as coaching a JDL team.
And because of the demands of the role there needs to be an underlying desire to want to do it, and a desire to go beyond the 8 hours of face time at Speers Point Skills training and to continue to learn and develop your skills.
This, is not for everyone. I'm certainly not going to forge a new career as a coach, but the person who I am allows me to put the time and effort in to be the best coach I can be right now. We can't expect that of all "Dads/Mums" who find themselves in this position.

If clubs are "only" going to place parents into JDL coaching roles then they need to develop the structure to support those coaches; and I 100% believe NLFC is doing it's best with this. Bringing in Cas Wright last year and Clayton Zane this year gives lowly parent-coaches like me someone to pump for information and lean on when you're in that mid-season drag...

Kudos to you Steve, It's a huge commitment and you and all other coaches have a huge amount of respect from me for the amount of time, effort & money (training aids, etc) of your own that you put into the development of young players.

I hope it didn't come across as me being negative towards all parents as coaches, I think nearly every team in all ages would have a parent as a coach, including my sons coach who is excellent. It was more a statement of just being a parent and having a certificate was not good enough and I hope clubs try and find the most suitable person & not just the first person who applies.

You are 100% right though that all the club supporting structures being in place is key to it all being a success.

[Goatscheese]

There's a difference between having a training certificate and being able to effectively train kids at JDL ages.

The question was what were the minimum requirements. The answer was correct.


I am hopeful that all the clubs are not just selecting dads or mums with a certificate but are trying to find the most effective coaches available.

Clubs will be doing this I know a couple clubs that ideally want the JDL coaches to be at minimum C-licence, but good luck finding enough C-Licence coaches around that actually want to coach JDL let alone enough to cover it all.


I'm sure most clubs will be getting the most experienced as they can and then dropping down to just mum or dad.

[KITZ]

The question was what were the minimum requirements. The answer was correct.



Clubs will be doing this I know a couple clubs that ideally want the JDL coaches to be at minimum C-licence, but good luck finding enough C-Licence coaches around that actually want to coach JDL let alone enough to cover it all.


I'm sure most clubs will be getting the most experienced as they can and then dropping down to just mum or dad.



Theres still NPL clubs with youth teams trying to get C-licenced coaches, from what I understand theres only a hundred and something around the whole hunter area, probably a lot that have been chased out of coaching from having to deal with parents or clubs TBH. Much the same as referees I would expect. Now with the girls JDL coming along as well thats a heap more girls teams that weren't in existence last season.

[Aegon]

Theres still NPL clubs with youth teams trying to get C-licenced coaches, from what I understand theres only a hundred and something around the whole hunter area, probably a lot that have been chased out of coaching from having to deal with parents or clubs TBH. Much the same as referees I would expect. Now with the girls JDL coming along as well thats a heap more girls teams that weren't in existence last season.

What is the increase in numbers in girls teams? Is it 9's or 10's through to 12's? There would have been 4 team per age group previously run by the associations that has now turned into 7 in the local area? Will MNC or CCU be part of the competition?

It's hard to find any concrete information.

[sideline88]

What is the increase in numbers in girls teams? Is it 9's or 10's through to 12's? There would have been 4 team per age group previously run by the associations that has now turned into 7 in the local area? Will MNC or CCU be part of the competition?

It's hard to find any concrete information.

hopefully be some draws out next week to see who is definitively in the girls JDL comp. but rough numbers Ive heard is there is no 9s at all, 10s have 4 or 5 teams and will be pooled into the lower graded 9 boys. 11s have 9 teams including CCU and 7 teams for the 12s

would have been good to see each WPL club field a team in each of the age groups, but either the numbers or quality just were not there for a few clubs in some ages i guess.

[Aegon]

hopefully be some draws out next week to see who is definitively in the girls JDL comp. but rough numbers Ive heard is there is no 9s at all, 10s have 4 or 5 teams and will be pooled into the lower graded 9 boys. 11s have 9 teams including CCU and 7 teams for the 12s

would have been good to see each WPL club field a team in each of the age groups, but either the numbers or quality just were not there for a few clubs in some ages i guess.

Good info, I think it's a success to have this many teams in year 1. I can only think it is going to get better as awareness of the program increases.

[sideline88]

Good info, I think it's a success to have this many teams in year 1. I can only think it is going to get better as awareness of the program increases.

hopefully it will see some good growth moving forward. hopefully the clubs unable to put together a 10s team this season are working in the background to secure an 11s for the following season, i know even at community level how hard it could be to put together a brand new girls team at that age

[Goatscheese]

hopefully be some draws out next week to see who is definitively in the girls JDL comp. but rough numbers Ive heard is there is no 9s at all, 10s have 4 or 5 teams and will be pooled into the lower graded 9 boys. 11s have 9 teams including CCU and 7 teams for the 12s

would have been good to see each WPL club field a team in each of the age groups, but either the numbers or quality just were not there for a few clubs in some ages i guess.

And also how many parents of 8yo girls knew about it? As it gets more know about girls only JDL sides they should start seeing more players. Plus price may have had a factor, I know of two girls that were pulled out of a club after they were told the fees would be $1,400 for the year. And that wasn't even one of the NPL/WPL clubs.

[sideline88]

And also how many parents of 8yo girls knew about it? As it gets more know about girls only JDL sides they should start seeing more players. Plus price may have had a factor, I know of two girls that were pulled out of a club after they were told the fees would be $1,400 for the year. And that wasn't even one of the NPL/WPL clubs.

yeah price is definitely a huge factor and its usually dumped on parents after your child has trialed and been selected which would be heartbreaking for young kids to be pulled after selection.

We've got a few friends with rego fees for JDL sitting around $600 for the season and have seen others advertised for $1500.

[KITZ]

The girls might have not been as organised this year, but I know breaking down the payments into several of a smaller amount instead of a lump sum helps, with a no play date if arrangements haven't been made. For the most part I would assume that clubs want players they have picked to play, so for me personally I would have advised those parents to have that discussion with the club, over pulling them out (I would hope they just went somewhere else).

From what I seen the 10's age seemed to suffer more, and while I don't want to get on the gender train, girls develop much earlier, so there would be more 10s girls playing 11s / 12's, because if clubs struggle with numbers for 10s they can play up, but playing down is an issue. Hopefully northern might get in and advertise it a bit better so they can grow the program from the younger girls more next season.

Hopefully people start to understand the weeks of training x cost of how it actually works out over the year, I still think its decent value vs dancing / gymnastics - ie 2 sessions of gym a week is about $250 a term, x 4 terms = $1000), Im actually paying less for football this year than I did in the last 2 for gymnastics.

[Aegon]

The girls might have not been as organised this year, but I know breaking down the payments into several of a smaller amount instead of a lump sum helps, with a no play date if arrangements haven't been made. For the most part I would assume that clubs want players they have picked to play, so for me personally I would have advised those parents to have that discussion with the club, over pulling them out (I would hope they just went somewhere else).

From what I seen the 10's age seemed to suffer more, and while I don't want to get on the gender train, girls develop much earlier, so there would be more 10s girls playing 11s / 12's, because if clubs struggle with numbers for 10s they can play up, but playing down is an issue. Hopefully northern might get in and advertise it a bit better so they can grow the program from the younger girls more next season.

Hopefully people start to understand the weeks of training x cost of how it actually works out over the year, I still think its decent value vs dancing / gymnastics - ie 2 sessions of gym a week is about $250 a term, x 4 terms = $1000), Im actually paying less for football this year than I did in the last 2 for gymnastics.

$250 a term? My 6 year old was going to be $650 a term.

[sapdad]

Hopefully people start to understand the weeks of training x cost of how it actually works out over the year, I still think its decent value vs dancing / gymnastics - ie 2 sessions of gym a week is about $250 a term, x 4 terms = $1000), Im actually paying less for football this year than I did in the last 2 for gymnastics.

I agree this is a point most people dont get.Overall its costing about $10 per session (including games and training) for our kid to get great coaching, great exercise, a chance to meet and compete with really talented kids, experience a team environment, understand the expectations of being in an organisation and do something they love on the best facilities the city has to offer.
Before SAP my son was involved in 3-4 different sports and activities per week anyway and the overall cost was much more than we are paying for soccer.I know theres a bit of stick on this thread about parents thinking their kid is going to play for Real Madrid, but some of us just want our kids to have the best experience available and see what becomes of it.Some of these kids will probably end up as coaches, referees, medical staff, club admins all through their level of exposure to the game at this age.Whether our son ends up making NPL next year im not really fussed, he'll make it if hes good enough.But hes always going to love his club, his mates and support them because of what they have done for him and as a parent I think thats pretty cool and well worth the money.

[KITZ]

$250 a term? My 6 year old was going to be $650 a term.

PCYC and not quite at competitive levels yet, so we probably got off cheaper, I'd imagine continuing it was only going to get more expensive!

[Captain_Carl]

Winning should be the focus. We must keep a ladder so all can see it. We want to know who the best clubs are so we can enrol our kids there. Trophies are important but not participation trophies. Trophies that recognise winners is what competition is all about. Being the best and standing out from the crowd is what it’s all about and this is where you all have it wrong. ‘Winners are grinners’ are not just empty words. Kids who win are happier than kids who lose. What I would encourage you all to do is get your kid into the best possible club their ability will allow them to and when they get good enough get them to a better club. Is development important? You bet it is but it will happen a lot quicker when your kid is happy because they are in a winning team.

Please note: the above message is my own and is not endorsed by Newcastle Olympic in any way.

[W8 WATCHER]

winning should be the focus. We must keep a ladder so all can see it. We want to know who the best clubs are so we can enrol our kids there. Trophies are important but not participation trophies. Trophies that recognise winners is what competition is all about. Being the best and standing out from the crowd is what it’s all about and this is where you all have it wrong. ‘winners are grinners’ are not just empty words. Kids who win are happier than kids who lose. What i would encourage you all to do is get your kid into the best possible club their ability will allow them to and when they get good enough get them to a better club. Is development important? You bet it is but it will happen a lot quicker when your kid is happy because they are in a winning team.

Please note: The above message is my own and is not endorsed by newcastle olympic in any way.

you have serious issues

[ForeverRed]

Winning should be the focus. We must keep a ladder so all can see it. We want to know who the best clubs are so we can enrol our kids there. Trophies are important but not participation trophies. Trophies that recognise winners is what competition is all about. Being the best and standing out from the crowd is what it’s all about and this is where you all have it wrong. ‘Winners are grinners’ are not just empty words. Kids who win are happier than kids who lose. What I would encourage you all to do is get your kid into the best possible club their ability will allow them to and when they get good enough get them to a better club. Is development important? You bet it is but it will happen a lot quicker when your kid is happy because they are in a winning team.

Please note: the above message is my own and is not endorsed by Newcastle Olympic in any way.

Pretty much sums up most parents on here

[Aegon]

Pretty much sums up most parents on here

:yawn:

[Ghost of Plague]

Pretty much sums up most parents on here

Look everyone the misery bus has turned up.
Shouldn't you be out yelling at 5G towers or something?
What a sad old prick you are.
Leave these people alone its pretty much the most respectful thread on here apart from when clowns like you turn up.

[Captain_Carl]

Pretty much sums up most parents on here

I am not a parent. Nobody understands the game like I do so I just like to help lead people in the right direction.

[Goatscheese]

Please note: the above message is my own and is not endorsed by Newcastle Olympic in any way.

You have nothing to do with Olympic so why would they?

[Goatscheese]

Hopefully people start to understand the weeks of training x cost of how it actually works out over the year, I still think its decent value vs dancing / gymnastics - ie 2 sessions of gym a week is about $250 a term, x 4 terms = $1000), Im actually paying less for football this year than I did in the last 2 for gymnastics.

That may just mean that gymnastics is overpriced as well

[Goatscheese]

I agree this is a point most people dont get.Overall its costing about $10 per session (including games and training) for our kid to get great coaching, great exercise, a chance to meet and compete with really talented kids, experience a team environment, understand the expectations of being in an organisation and do something they love on the best facilities the city has to offer.

Provided you get all that, the club I was talking about pays $15/player/year for the training grounds, I'm not sure on the coach but we were just talking about how difficult it is to find coaches for JDL and some are just parents with a Skill Training Certificate. Everything else an U9 girl can get that playing community

[Aegon]

That may just mean that gymnastics is overpriced as well

Still cheaper than Dancing....

[Cunning stunts]

Being a parent of a JDL player and also a JDL coach, my opinion might be biased. but i believe there are some quality parents/JDL coaches out there.

Yes in a ideal world it would be great to have coaches in all age groups that are not a parent.

but realistically it is not possible. you are going to struggle to find many coaches with the quality you need and that are willing to commit to 3-4 days a week.

[Bremsstrahlung]

Being a parent of a JDL player and also a JDL coach, my opinion might be biased. but i believe there are some quality parents/JDL coaches out there.

Yes in a ideal world it would be great to have coaches in all age groups that are not a parent.

but realistically it is not possible. you are going to struggle to find many coaches with the quality you need and that are willing to commit to 3-4 days a week.

90% of the time, the coaches with the qualifications and certificates of higher levels filter down from the top. So your NPL will get the most qualified, then a TD role, then NPL grades, NPL youth etc. I’d be seriously impressed if any JDL clubs had a few coaches with more than the bare minimum.

Imo, seems like the perfect opportunity for mum and dads who fancy giving coaching a go, to get some support (hopefully), structure, a group
of kids who are interested in the game, and ability to build their knowledge and give coaching a go. Seems a more realistic/supportive environment than what community may be like. (Yeh, some clubs give support, but vast majority collect their shirts and balls and away they go).

I guess time will tell, but the last few years I’ve asked questions as to what this program wants to be. It may be a simple thing, but changing it from a “program” to a “league” kind of tells me it intends to become an extension of NPL Youth and replace the old SYL or Macquarie, NPS and HV development leagues. I’m curious to hear how teams approach it this year and how long games remain being an “extension of training” and opportunity to practice what they’ve learnt without results and a table.

[Cunning stunts]

90% of the time, the coaches with the qualifications and certificates of higher levels filter down from the top. So your NPL will get the most qualified, then a TD role, then NPL grades, NPL youth etc. I’d be seriously impressed if any JDL clubs had a few coaches with more than the bare minimum.

Imo, seems like the perfect opportunity for mum and dads who fancy giving coaching a go, to get some support (hopefully), structure, a group
of kids who are interested in the game, and ability to build their knowledge and give coaching a go. Seems a more realistic/supportive environment than what community may be like. (Yeh, some clubs give support, but vast majority collect their shirts and balls and away they go).

I guess time will tell, but the last few years I’ve asked questions as to what this program wants to be. It may be a simple thing, but changing it from a “program” to a “league” kind of tells me it intends to become an extension of NPL Youth and replace the old SYL or Macquarie, NPS and HV development leagues. I’m curious to hear how teams approach it this year and how long games remain being an “extension of training” and opportunity to practice what they’ve learnt without results and a table.

Completely agree, i know from the club i am involved in winning isn't everything and we apply a rotating roster to teach kids how to play all over the park. It has become obvious that some bigger clubs don't do this and pick players on a particular position or constantly play them in there strongest position. To me that is still focusing on a win at all cost.

but with saying that i have always been a believer that kids need to learn to win and learn to lose the right way. because when they do reach the age of winning is important some kids (and parents) just don't know how to do either one respectfully

there needs to be a rethink on how we can achieve both competitions aligned with how Australian football is played (final series) but also achieve the development of the kids

[KITZ]

Winning should be the focus. We must keep a ladder so all can see it. We want to know who the best clubs are so we can enrol our kids there. Trophies are important but not participation trophies. Trophies that recognise winners is what competition is all about. Being the best and standing out from the crowd is what it’s all about and this is where you all have it wrong. ‘Winners are grinners’ are not just empty words. Kids who win are happier than kids who lose. What I would encourage you all to do is get your kid into the best possible club their ability will allow them to and when they get good enough get them to a better club. Is development important? You bet it is but it will happen a lot quicker when your kid is happy because they are in a winning team.

Please note: the above message is my own and is not endorsed by Newcastle Olympic in any way.

Not sure he's a parent or if he is I'm seriously questioning his mental state and if he should be reported to social services. His comments across all of the boards are questionable and seem to have completely lost the plot, so he's either a troll or has serious mental health issues that need addressing. Like who would come here just to post rubbish like that? Could you not find a more productive way to live your life?

Its also worth noting that some of the boys at nationals camp in January were NOT from teams at the top of the table, anyone with a kid in football knows that development in football is much more than "winning games".

[Cunning stunts]

As a coach that has played alot of football within the NPL/New Fm and Zone leagues i believe i have the requirements without the course.

That said i have done all course up till the C licenses recently and they really help you adapt your knowledge to a different style of teaching specially kids and with a combination i believe as a coach regardless if i am a parent or not will be a high standard for the kids and the parent will be happy with (once again only my opinion and could be biased)

[Aegon]

Being a parent of a JDL player and also a JDL coach, my opinion might be biased. but i believe there are some quality parents/JDL coaches out there.

Yes in a ideal world it would be great to have coaches in all age groups that are not a parent.

but realistically it is not possible. you are going to struggle to find many coaches with the quality you need and that are willing to commit to 3-4 days a week.

Thank you for committing your time and effort into supporting the kids development. I don't believe you coaches get thanked enough for doing what you do week in week out.

[KITZ]

Thank you for committing your time and effort into supporting the kids development. I don't believe you coaches get thanked enough for doing what you do week in week out.

agreed!

[Aegon]

How are all the kids pre-seasons going?

The clubs have had different approaches depending on who you speak to.

Edgy & Magic running intra club trial games over the weekend.
Jaffa's travelling to Sydney & Forster in consecutive weekends.
New teams such as Cooks Hill and West Wallsend playing some good games against NPL clubs.
Central Coast United and potentially Mid North Coast added to the leagues this season?
New Lambton almost having to start over again in the 11's and 12's due to players leaving?
Maitland going all in on the A and B squad format.
Adamstown WPL getting loads of games in as well but I haven't heard a peep about the boys squads.

Lots of confusion around the Speers Point 5's pre-season(Grading? Assessment? whatever it is going to be) games with whispers some clubs requested to withdraw but were told by NNSWF they had to participate.

How have the 11's squads adapted to the 9 players on the field?
Are the 12's looking too cramped on the small sided fields?

[Cunning stunts]

I do not agree to the 5s pre season thing there trying to do.

why would you grade teams with less players on smaller field not like anything they would play on the weekend? makes no sense to me

[sapdad]

I have seen a few trials for 11s and 12s so far.Only a small sample size but 11's seem to be the sweet spot for the 1/2 field 9 v 9.The 12's I saw all looked a bit cramped and there was a lot of direct football which is getting away from the point of the program but thats for another debate.Wouldnt surprise me to see 12's moved to a bigger field in future years.
No one at our club seemed to know what the go was with the Speers Point 5 a side thing either.Have seen a lot of familiar faces pop up in different coloured shirts this year already which was probably bound to happen.

[cobra23]

I do not agree to the 5s pre season thing there trying to do.

why would you grade teams with less players on smaller field not like anything they would play on the weekend? makes no sense to me

NNSWs plan is not to use it as grading , its all about revenue for themselves .
they are just telling people that ..

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

[Cunning stunts]

NNSWs plan is not to use it as grading , its all about revenue for themselves .
they are just telling people that ..

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

Yep thought that was the actual reason, but i went with what there calling it.

For the 9s surely they can't grade it off that?

Isn't it also the associations request to divide your teams to A and B side if you have two teams for a age group?

or will there be no issue with mixed quality?

[cobra23]

Yep thought that was the actual reason, but i went with what there calling it.

For the 9s surely they can't grade it off that?

Isn't it also the associations request to divide your teams to A and B side if you have two teams for a age group?

or will there be no issue with mixed quality?

I reckon they will use the majority card when it comes down to 9s . if most the other age groups in the club are in one group then they will put them in that to start with..

as far as im aware , MAGIC , OLYMPIC & EDGY have even teams .. im not sure NNSW Football want a A&B Team

[Aegon]

The 12's I saw all looked a bit cramped and there was a lot of direct football which is getting away from the point of the program but thats for another debate.Wouldnt surprise me to see 12's moved to a bigger field in future years

I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

[sapdad]

I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

I dont agree with this, if the kids havent worked on their 4 core skills enough by age 12 then thats on them.They have to get out onto a full field eventually.There are plenty of age 12 SAP kids already playing 13's NPL this year anyway. If they prove to be good enough then holding back an entire age group for another year is going to be detrimental to their overall development.

[Cunning stunts]

I reckon they will use the majority card when it comes down to 9s . if most the other age groups in the club are in one group then they will put them in that to start with..

as far as im aware , MAGIC , OLYMPIC & EDGY have even teams .. im not sure NNSW Football want a A&B Team

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

[Bremsstrahlung]

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

[sapdad]

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

i agree with all of this.As you said the kids/coaches and parents know the results, they know who the good teams are, they know who the good players are and they know who the good coaches are.The overall goal of the program was to get to full field and use their skills to win matches.Good coaches will enhance their skills with tactics, fitness and formations.At 13 its time for the kids to get amongst it.To be honest this year so far the drills at training have been so repetitive and boring my kid is not enjoying himself anywhere near as much.He is ready for some more game structure and something new.Wanting these kids to go 5 years of touch pass dribble and shoot without much else is gonna drive them crazy,

[Cunning stunts]

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

Couldn't agree more. i think 12s should be playing competition and still part of the JDL that way they are getting the 4 core skills in while also learning the structure and competition of NPL youth.

Also believe they should be on full field or at least 3/4 of the field at minimum.

[Cunning stunts]

Any idea of when the draws will be public? or anyone have a draft they are willing to share

[samcan]

Also believe they should be on full field or at least 3/4 of the field at minimum.

Definitely this. 1/2 field too small for whole season. Can there be both? 1st round half field tight touches, 2nd round full field.
Maybe same for 13s.
Are there enough grounds?

[sapdad]

Definitely this. 1/2 field too small for whole season. Can there be both? 1st round half field tight touches, 2nd round full field.
Maybe same for 13s.
Are there enough grounds?

Short answer, no.With the JDL now at capacity for boys (9,10,11 and first year of 12's) and the addition of girls, rejigging a whole field for one age group will be way too much work for NNSW.Also, the kids get to play on 1st grade grounds every week. If they need new grounds the quality of surface wont be the same.If they move JDL 12 to bigger fields it would be easier to incorporate it into the NPL youth structure and play their games first every week.It probably wont happen in the short term though.

[Cunning stunts]

The biggest thing is majority of the kids these days compared to when i was a kid are huge and they are getting bigger each time the 9s come through

anyone else notice that :D

[scowling]

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

My question for NNSWF is how they would grade teams who are NOT splitting their two teams; IE. Clubs that are mixing and matching each week?

[Bremsstrahlung]

Short answer, no.With the JDL now at capacity for boys (9,10,11 and first year of 12's) and the addition of girls, rejigging a whole field for one age group will be way too much work for NNSW.Also, the kids get to play on 1st grade grounds every week. If they need new grounds the quality of surface wont be the same.If they move JDL 12 to bigger fields it would be easier to incorporate it into the NPL youth structure and play their games first every week.It probably wont happen in the short term though.

The idea of playing JDL before NPL Youth games got me thinking.
Are there any club identities forming? Making kids feel as though they are part of a organisation?
Eg is there any cross play with NPL youth or even NPL senior setups? Or are JDL very separate to NPL until say 12s.
Maybe not the most important thing for 9 year olds, they already have their Jets or Overseas idols. But maybe somebody involved with the program could comment on their thought on if this is important and if so, are many clubs doing it?

[sapdad]

The idea of playing JDL before NPL Youth games got me thinking.
Are there any club identities forming? Making kids feel as though they are part of a organisation?
Eg is there any cross play with NPL youth or even NPL senior setups? Or are JDL very separate to NPL until say 12s.
Maybe not the most important thing for 9 year olds, they already have their Jets or Overseas idols. But maybe somebody involved with the program could comment on their thought on if this is important and if so, are many clubs doing it?

absolutely.most clubs ive seen a lot of have a very close association with seniors.i know of a few NPL teams who have done jersey presentations to the kids by the seniors.SAP demonstrations have been played on 1st grade matchdays.even having coaches involved in SAP who are in the seniors set up come through and talk to the kids and encourage them.its really cool and definitely bonds the kids to the club from an early age.
also it should be noted that every instance ive seen of seniors getting involved in it has always been embraced by the seniors.it never looks as if they are performing some sort of chore.the kids get a real kick out of seeing how the big boys do it, and hopefully it inspires them to want to do the same.

[Goatscheese]

I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

Indeed Football Australia came out saying U13s and U14s should be box to box 9v9. Then go to a full size field 11v11 from U15s

[Goatscheese]

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

Must have been only some clubs asked for that. I was heavily involved in my club's SAP program (i.e. running the SAP program) last year and Northern never asked us for scores. Just coaching one of the JDL teams this year but our TD keeps us abreast of what's going on

[Goatscheese]

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

Pity your club has to do it like that, ideally the two teams are of equal strength. I do remember one year a particular club did that and their designated B team roundly thrashed their A team later in the year.

[Bremsstrahlung]

absolutely.most clubs ive seen a lot of have a very close association with seniors.i know of a few NPL teams who have done jersey presentations to the kids by the seniors.SAP demonstrations have been played on 1st grade matchdays.even having coaches involved in SAP who are in the seniors set up come through and talk to the kids and encourage them.its really cool and definitely bonds the kids to the club from an early age.
also it should be noted that every instance ive seen of seniors getting involved in it has always been embraced by the seniors.it never looks as if they are performing some sort of chore.the kids get a real kick out of seeing how the big boys do it, and hopefully it inspires them to want to do the same.

Excellent! Good to see.
Some of the best moments and memories I have are playing for a club where you felt part of it all.
Also spent some time at a club that did not do this, and it always felt like you were unwanted but necessary.
I’m glad some clubs are seeing the big picture!

[Aegon]

Excellent! Good to see.
Some of the best moments and memories I have are playing for a club where you felt part of it all.
Also spent some time at a club that did not do this, and it always felt like you were unwanted but necessary.
I’m glad some clubs are seeing the big picture!

The highlight of my sons season last year was being a ball boy for the 3 senior grades.
Although he did receive quite the education on the type of language used on the field :yap::yap:

[Alan]

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

Hi guys.

Great conversation. Keep it up!

We are are one of many clubs I know who have been asked to have A and B teams. This is to aid the grading process Northern are planning. I am starting to think this has only been requested of the hate to say “smaller” clubs.

We were also asked to provide scores at the end of last season, but our players have changed so much since then this cannot be a good indicator.

If I am honest even our A team would not be as strong as many “big” B teams I would think, so much as I want a challenge for our guys the A pool might to a tough gig.

A

[samcan]

Hi guys.

Great conversation. Keep it up!

We are are one of many clubs I know who have been asked to have A and B teams. This is to aid the grading process Northern are planning. I am starting to think this has only been requested of the hate to say “smaller” clubs.

We were also asked to provide scores at the end of last season, but our players have changed so much since then this cannot be a good indicator.

If I am honest even our A team would not be as strong as many “big” B teams I would think, so much as I want a challenge for our guys the A pool might to a tough gig.

A

This is where it gets difficult when trying properly grade teams. I can imagine once comps are set you stay till the end.

[scowling]

This is where it gets difficult when trying properly grade teams. I can imagine once comps are set you stay till the end.

Agreed.

I don't have the answers to how to solve for grading either.

I'm not privvy to whether we were asked to or not - but we have graded the 9s and 10s into A and B. This is for player development, not result driven.
We collected and passed back to the SAP coordinator scores last year - so I can only assume they were passed on up the chain to Northern.

If there were enough games you'd just have each team play each other and take the top and bottom halves - but as we all know games and game time is reducing not increasing.
If clubs were going to field the same two teams consistently week-in, week-out you'd just ask them to nominate which half of the draw they think their teams would fit in. But personally I saw last year and have been told this year that clubs will be choosing different teams each round. Impossible to grade "teams" if the teams change that frequently.

My understanding is that the grading period will be the 3 weekends prior to Easter weekend; there will be no football Easter weekend, and competition games will start the following weekend (as Round 4?).
Now, that has the season "proper" starting April 10... 3 weeks after I would have assumed it would start.
And I assume the mid-season (after 8 rounds) re-shuffle of the draws will still happen?

The wet weather has severely hampered our preparation (one trial v Valentine indoors at howzat) - Johnson Park is just about always wet - so I'm half way happy that games are so far away so that we can actually get some time under our belts.

[Alan]

If clubs were going to field the same two teams consistently week-in, week-out you'd just ask them to nominate which half of the draw they think their teams would fit in. But personally I saw last year and have been told this year that clubs will be choosing different teams each round. Impossible to grade "teams" if the teams change frequently

Now I recall seeing one club do this last year, and that club didn’t do it the two years before by the way, but I don’t feel it’s very common. Therefore the issue of grading this type of ‘team’ becomes that clubs issue not Northern’s. I don’t think Northern can adapt their chosen pathway to accommodate clubs who do things different.

On grading, I’m on record saying this is easy if clubs are honest. I know where our clubs stand in terms of both A and B teams and where they fitted among the other clubs last season. Most clubs would also be honest. Where there may be some debate, Northern should have the final say. They watched all the teams last season after all.

Didn’t they????????

A

[KITZ]

Does anyone have any idea if the girls are just being "thrown in" with the boys for grading? I have heard that the 10s girls will because of the lack of teams (not all of the WPL clubs could form teams in the under 10s). Our trial game so far has only been against teams of girls and I have no idea if they are grading them against the boys?

[Yaa Yaa]

How are you supposed to grade off last season? Some teams have had big changes to their teams from last season. And playing 5 a side wonÂ’t give you a clear indication of what they will be like this season. IÂ’d like to see a mini pre season tournament held at speers point like maybe a gala day on half fields over a weekend. Saturday you do group games then Sunday some semis. Let the kids have a taste of a tournament like they used to back in the day. Stop being so precious about losing, its part of life. You win some you lose some. They get over it in a day or 2.

[BS detecor]

Stop being so precious about losing, its part of life. You win some you lose some. They get over it in a day or 2.

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

[sideline88]

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

I couldn't agree more, after our first full season of SAP last year of pretty decent losses most games Ive learnt try to speak to the young one about what they enjoyed and what they learnt from it and anything they'd like to work on at home through the week.

Its disappointing hearing the constant "i cant watch this crap anymore" or "how many goals did you lose by this week" to young johnny walking back to the car after the game. no doubt it has an impact on the players

[sapdad]

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.
Totally agree.Although can we add in certain coaches too?

[Yaa Yaa]

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

I say day or 2 mainly because their friends at school play for other clubs and may stir them but nothing wrong with that. No different to them winning or losing swimming and running races at school carnivals. That’s just sport, some take it more seriously than others.

[sapdad]

Its disappointing hearing the constant "i cant watch this crap anymore"

Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

[Yaa Yaa]

Totally agree.Although can we add in certain coaches too?
I think at times we can be harsh on coaches, I’ve been guilty of it also but let’s not forget the amount of time they put in and the crap they go through having to get tickets These days to coach and probably get f all pay for it. Then to have to deal with some parents that expect you to turn their kids into stars. It’s not the coaches fault the rego is high and maybe some coaches feel that pressure by parents to perform because of the money they fork out. Anyway just my take on it.

[sapdad]

I think at times we can be harsh on coaches, I’ve been guilty of it also but let’s not forget the amount of time they put in and the crap they go through having to get tickets These days to coach and probably get f all pay for it. Then to have to deal with some parents that expect you to turn their kids into stars. It’s not the coaches fault the rego is high and maybe some coaches feel that pressure by parents to perform because of the money they fork out. Anyway just my take on it.

Totally agree,I was just referring to the certain few who take losses as a dagger to the heart and have been known to lash out at refs and opposition in frustration.Them and parents(as we all agree) are the ones who should be setting the example and like parents, 99% of coaches are great.I just get a good belly laugh out of the ones who think losing a 9 year olds SAP game is going to cost them the vacant Man City job if Pep retires.

[sideline88]

Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

ohh mate, they are out there. that exact line was said only last week at a trial game followed 10minutes from another parent "blow the whistle already this is just embarrassing" unfortunately some parents dont yet understand the big losses are just as important to development as the big wins.

[Cunning stunts]

That's crazy to hear, but i do believe it. i for one as a coach and a dad for JDL (SAP) if faced with a big loss pick out key things they did this week and the key things we can work on at home or in training and try to focus the kids on this (can't control the parents)

end of the day we are told there is no results but the kids know so you need to encourage team work and team goals more.

I am all for telling kids when they do something wrong that they know is not upto scratch (usually behavior) outside that i am one very positive coach compared to other coaches i have come across

[sapdad]

That's crazy to hear, but i do believe it. i for one as a coach and a dad for JDL (SAP) if faced with a big loss pick out key things they did this week and the key things we can work on at home or in training and try to focus the kids on this (can't control the parents)

end of the day we are told there is no results but the kids know so you need to encourage team work and team goals more.

I am all for telling kids when they do something wrong that they know is not upto scratch (usually behavior) outside that i am one very positive coach compared to other coaches i have come across

Then mate you are doing it the right way.Good luck with the team this season.

[Eastwest]

Totally agree,I was just referring to the certain few who take losses as a dagger to the heart and have been known to lash out at refs and opposition in frustration.Them and parents(as we all agree) are the ones who should be setting the example and like parents, 99% of coaches are great.I just get a good belly laugh out of the ones who think losing a 9 year olds SAP game is going to cost them the vacant Man City job if Pep retires.

Lets not forget some coaches are more than happy to hand over to a superior coach if possible and dont care about mancity vacancies.

[sapdad]

Lets not forget some coaches are more than happy to hand over to a superior coach if possible and dont care about mancity vacancies.

Yes,id put them in the 99% bracket mentioned earlier.

[Goatscheese]

Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

Unfortunately they do and even worse they carry on if a loss happens and start going on about their kid not being put in their position. As though a 9yo position is striker or a winger, even heard "but that's where he has always played".

As mentioned before at my club I was more heavily involved in our SAP teams last year and one of our teams struggled in terms of results but they got better each week and were much very competitive by the end of the season (even winning a couple games) but even then these parents in one of our U9 teams have decided to go elsewhere to what they deem as better teams.


ohh mate, they are out there. that exact line was said only last week at a trial game followed 10minutes from another parent "blow the whistle already this is just embarrassing" unfortunately some parents dont yet understand the big losses are just as important to development as the big wins.

If one team is running through and easily scoring goals and the other team can't touch the ball it isn't developing anyone. I don't care about the score but neither team gets better from it.

[Game_over]

Any teams get to train this week? I know the young fellas training was washed out all week, his been driving me batty kicking the ball around the house!

[Cunning stunts]

we are yet to have training called off due to rain, and the pitch has been quite dry (Monday was the worse even then was okay)

[sideline88]

Any teams get to train this week? I know the young fellas training was washed out all week, his been driving me batty kicking the ball around the house!

haven't missed too many sessions the last few weeks but have had a few moved from our ground out to Speers Point. good having an all weather facility close by where the kids can train

[Dontknowmuch]

haven't missed too many sessions the last few weeks but have had a few moved from our ground out to Speers Point. good having an all weather facility close by where the kids can train

Does your club charge you when you transfer to speers point

[sideline88]

Does your club charge you when you transfer to speers point

Not to date, i believe the club has made allowance for a minimum number of sessions at speers point for the season, weve a had a good mix of half field and the small sided fields in the time out there

[Aegon]

It's great that some clubs have factored in sessions at Speers point to cater for wet weather, etc.

I'm not sure our club has any intention to ever undertake training there - even wet weather alternative locations are typically training at Howzat, the Uni or another indoor venue.

Last week was probably the first time in 3 years that the kids have not had a single scheduled session go ahead.

[Aegon]

The JDL draw is out (https://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-8304-0-0-0)

Not sure what they are hoping to achieve still, most of the historically stronger clubs play each other just like the clubs new to JDL are up against each other as well.

Looking at a rough breakdown of the boys teams - there are 28 (30 in U9's) teams per age group so if they are looking for two different pools it'll be roughly 14 teams per pool.

I know there will be a team or 2 being the exception to the rule, but it could quite easily have been broken down into this for phase 2:

Jaffa's, Olympic, Magic, Edgeworth, Maitland & Azzurri x 2 teams with New Lambton (A) and maybe Adamstown as the first pool.

New Lambton (B), Valentine, Lakes, Wallsend, Weston, Sth Cardiff, West Wallsend, Kahibah, Cooks Hill, Toronto & Singleton squads making up the second pool.

The biggest unknown is Central Coast United and where they will fit into the mix.

Surely this could have been worked out in conjunction with the clubs TD's rather than doing these fast 5 games?

[Cunning stunts]

I think its a huge money grab for the association.

How can you possible grade teams on a totally different style of football

[Aegon]

Are Belswans, Cessnock and Thornton the only "premier clubs" without any SAP teams?

[sideline88]

I think its a huge money grab for the association.

How can you possible grade teams on a totally different style of football

Are clubs actually being charged an additional fee for this though?

[Cunning stunts]

Are clubs actually being charged an additional fee for this though?

I am unsure if there is direct cost to the club or not.

But the amount of people through there and canteen etc would bring in good revenue i would imagine

[Aegon]

I am unsure if there is direct cost to the club or not.

But the amount of people through there and canteen etc would bring in good revenue i would imagine

Almost 140 teams there over the first weekend, so roughly 1300-1400 players + families, coaches, club staff etc.

Week 2 even more with the addition of Northern Inland, North Coast & Mid North Coast teams.

[sapdad]

In 12's Maitland and NL only have one team dont they? Are they expecting their kids to play 4 games in a day?Most other clubs somehow need to get equal game time for 24-26 players in a couple of 5 a side games?It all seems really poorly thought out.Lots of kids sitting around on the bench rather than playing/training.

[Cunning stunts]

In 12's Maitland and NL only have one team dont they? Are they expecting their kids to play 4 games in a day?Most other clubs somehow need to get equal game time for 24-26 players in a couple of 5 a side games?It all seems really poorly thought out.Lots of kids sitting around on the bench rather than playing/training.

All teams will have 2 games on the same day each weekend

9s,10s, x2 teams will have 4 game

11s,12s i believe each team has been split into 2 teams. (so if 11s have 2 teams already its split to 4)

thats what i found out off the draw anyway

[sapdad]

All teams will have 2 games on the same day each weekend

9s,10s, x2 teams will have 4 game

11s,12s i believe each team has been split into 2 teams. (so if 11s have 2 teams already its split to 4)

thats what i found out off the draw anyway

So they are assuming clubs like edgeworth/olympic/magic will only have kids play 1 game per weekend in this format?while i personally dont think it helps anything im happy to support it in case something good comes from it.

[KITZ]

The JDL draw is out (https://websites.sportstg.com/assoc_page.cgi?c=0-8304-0-0-0)

Not sure what they are hoping to achieve still, most of the historically stronger clubs play each other just like the clubs new to JDL are up against each other as well.

Looking at a rough breakdown of the boys teams - there are 28 (30 in U9's) teams per age group so if they are looking for two different pools it'll be roughly 14 teams per pool.

I know there will be a team or 2 being the exception to the rule, but it could quite easily have been broken down into this for phase 2:

Jaffa's, Olympic, Magic, Edgeworth, Maitland & Azzurri x 2 teams with New Lambton (A) and maybe Adamstown as the first pool.

New Lambton (B), Valentine, Lakes, Wallsend, Weston, Sth Cardiff, West Wallsend, Kahibah, Cooks Hill, Toronto & Singleton squads making up the second pool.

The biggest unknown is Central Coast United and where they will fit into the mix.

Surely this could have been worked out in conjunction with the clubs TD's rather than doing these fast 5 games?


I don't agree with this idea. You put the clubs that are in NPL into a draw and the Clubs in HitFM (or whatever its called now) Into a draw. Kids don't get better just playing people of similar level forever, they have to learn to be strong on the ball against better opposition. they want kids to go into NPL to fill the shortfall they were having with the old SAP, so NPL clubs MUST be playing each other. Teams also change every year so sure Jaffas / magic etc might be strong one year, but when the parents get the craps with the way the JDL is being run at some clubs they will move somewhere else. If kids develop really well let them trial for an NPL JDL, we have some top kids with us in NPL from HitFM, because they were approached to come over to NPL and they fit well into the squad.

Thats how development is supposed to work, upwards as kids develop, and down if they decide they don't like the pressure of whatever level of football they are in.

[sapdad]

I don't agree with this idea. You put the clubs that are in NPL into a draw and the Clubs in HitFM (or whatever its called now) Into a draw. Kids don't get better just playing people of similar level forever, they have to learn to be strong on the ball against better opposition. they want kids to go into NPL to fill the shortfall they were having with the old SAP, so NPL clubs MUST be playing each other. Teams also change every year so sure Jaffas / magic etc might be strong one year, but when the parents get the craps with the way the JDL is being run at some clubs they will move somewhere else. If kids develop really well let them trial for an NPL JDL, we have some top kids with us in NPL from HitFM, because they were approached to come over to NPL and they fit well into the squad.

Thats how development is supposed to work, upwards as kids develop, and down if they decide they don't like the pressure of whatever level of football they are in.

I disagree only on the timing.Everything you said is correct but this program is supposed to spread the net as wide as possible in order to get U/13's to be the time when results/ladders/victories become the focus.New Lambton had teams in 11 and 10 last year that were as good as anyone.If they had only been playing against the 'weaker' teams from 9's then they never get to the level they are now.The obvious counterpoint is just to join Magic/Olympic/Jaffas from 9's but that just wasnt the case because those clubs either knocked them back or they were already choosing from their own community kids.If the 9-12 program gives the most kids the best chance of cracking NPL at 13 then the system is working.In its 4th year now we are seeing clubs who have struggled with numbers reducing to one team per age group,we are seeing new clubs getting the chance to join in and hopefully it raises the overall level.but saying kids are NPL worthy at 9 and putting them in a 'B' division before they've probably had any chance to get good coaching (or teammates) is going way to far in my opinion.

[Aegon]

I don't agree with this idea. You put the clubs that are in NPL into a draw and the Clubs in HitFM (or whatever its called now) Into a draw. Kids don't get better just playing people of similar level forever, they have to learn to be strong on the ball against better opposition. they want kids to go into NPL to fill the shortfall they were having with the old SAP, so NPL clubs MUST be playing each other. Teams also change every year so sure Jaffas / magic etc might be strong one year, but when the parents get the craps with the way the JDL is being run at some clubs they will move somewhere else. If kids develop really well let them trial for an NPL JDL, we have some top kids with us in NPL from HitFM, because they were approached to come over to NPL and they fit well into the squad.

Thats how development is supposed to work, upwards as kids develop, and down if they decide they don't like the pressure of whatever level of football they are in.

Agree or Disagree it is what NNSWF have decided to do.

I was only saying that this 3 week assessment or grading thing at LMRFF really didn't need to occur as most of the age groups would be a similar break down to what I mentioned above.

If you look at the draw for each age group in the boys the typically stronger teams are playing each other in most of the games as it is.

[BS detecor]

Teams also change every year so sure Jaffas / magic etc might be strong one year, but when the parents get the craps with the way the JDL is being run at some clubs they will move somewhere else.

Magic, Jaffas and Olympic will always have the strongest teams not because they are run the best but because 99% of the players taken into the Jets program come from the NPL teams of one of those 3 clubs.

[Yaa Yaa]

So is this Comp going to be 5 in total on pitch or goalkeeper and 5 players which will be 6 total. Most teams I know have 11 or 12 players so that’s going to be interesting.

[Aegon]

So is this Comp going to be 5 in total on pitch or goalkeeper and 5 players which will be 6 total. Most teams I know have 11 or 12 players so that’s going to be interesting.

Under 9's and 10's - 5 a side total
Under 11's and 12's - 6 a side total

[KITZ]

Magic, Jaffas and Olympic will always have the strongest teams not because they are run the best but because 99% of the players taken into the Jets program come from the NPL teams of one of those 3 clubs.

that's not even remotely true. lol. I think there was one kid from Jaffas at nationals camp in January in the 14s. Maybe you meant Edgeworth, where there was a few more than jaffas? Only 1 goalkeeper was from the clubs you mentioned across both age groups the others were from clubs not listed, and it would be rare for them to take a goalkeeper unless they are playing across many age groups from the top of the table. There were also kids not from local NPL, at least one from Tamworth that played at the back that was actually quite good. Nothing stopping kids from getting in NPL later that were in a HitFM SAP we have 2 from the GF winning West Wallsend team this year. I just don't agree that you drop SAP clubs that are run by an NPL club into a tier down, because they won't get better in time for NPL, they need to be playing against the kids they are going to play against in the NPL. The problem is for the olympics of the world where the kids stagnate because they have lumped all the good kids together and there's little competition for them anywhere in the draw.

In the old SAP they rotated them every year so the kids got a fairly well rounded development.

[BS detecor]

that's not even remotely true. lol. I think there was one kid from Jaffas at nationals camp in January in the 14s. Maybe you meant Edgeworth, where there was a few more than jaffas? Only 1 goalkeeper was from the clubs you mentioned across both age groups the others were from clubs not listed, and it would be rare for them to take a goalkeeper unless they are playing across many age groups from the top of the table. There were also kids not from local NPL, at least one from Tamworth that played at the back that was actually quite good. Nothing stopping kids from getting in NPL later that were in a HitFM SAP we have 2 from the GF winning West Wallsend team this year. I just don't agree that you drop SAP clubs that are run by an NPL club into a tier down, because they won't get better in time for NPL, they need to be playing against the kids they are going to play against in the NPL. The problem is for the olympics of the world where the kids stagnate because they have lumped all the good kids together and there's little competition for them anywhere in the draw.

In the old SAP they rotated them every year so the kids got a fairly well rounded development.

A couple from edgy maybe but I guarantee you the vast majority of players drafted into the program are from these 3 clubs in my experience. Now I’m not up on the 13s so if I’m wrong There I’ll stand corrected

[Arsenal222]

A couple from edgy maybe but I guarantee you the vast majority of players drafted into the program are from these 3 clubs in my experience. Now I’m not up on the 13s so if I’m wrong There I’ll stand corrected

The jaffas won’t continue to be as strong in the sap fields as they have been, huge losses of quality kids to other clubs. Time will tell but the writings on the wall

Hamilton and magic will always be strong but other clubs have made huge ground on them, Edgy with Jobe wheelhouse involved has attracted some good kids and will only keep on improving its SAP/JDL

[Bremsstrahlung]

Prepare for an influx of misquotes.

Arsenal222, reckon you could edit and chuck a ] after the last [/ QUOTE

Apologies, don’t know if my OCD can handle the consequences.

[Aegon]

The jaffas won’t continue to be as strong in the sap fields as they have been, huge losses of quality kids to other clubs. Time will tell but the writings on the wall



I assume you are only talking about this years 12's?

Only 1 player left this years 11's by choice and that was to join his siblings at Magic.

From what I have seen of the 10's they have also retained their better players from last year.

[Arsenal222]

I assume you are only talking about this years 12's?

Only 1 player left this years 11's by choice and that was to join his siblings at Magic.

From what I have seen of the 10's they have also retained their better players from last year.



Yes, The 12s.

[Alan]

Week 2 even more with the addition of Northern Inland, North Coast & Mid North Coast teams.

Hi guys,

I'm led to believe NI and NC will only be participating in this part of the SAP fixtures. MNC are yet undecided as to whether they will join the main draw but not likely with all the travel involved for the teams.

Some talk of a whole of NNSW SAP gala at the end of the season. Could be a good addition to the calendar if Northern can get it together. :thumbsup:

A

[Aegon]

Some talk of a whole of NNSW SAP gala at the end of the season. Could be a good addition to the calendar if Northern can get it together. :thumbsup:

A

This would be great - probably the first thing NNSWF have actually done for Premier SAP/JDL since its inception.

[Alan]

that's not even remotely true. lol. I think there was one kid from Jaffas at nationals camp in January in the 14s. Maybe you meant Edgeworth, where there was a few more than jaffas? Only 1 goalkeeper was from the clubs you mentioned across both age groups the others were from clubs not listed, and it would be rare for them to take a goalkeeper unless they are playing across many age groups from the top of the table. There were also kids not from local NPL, at least one from Tamworth that played at the back that was actually quite good. Nothing stopping kids from getting in NPL later that were in a HitFM SAP we have 2 from the GF winning West Wallsend team this year. I just don't agree that you drop SAP clubs that are run by an NPL club into a tier down, because they won't get better in time for NPL, they need to be playing against the kids they are going to play against in the NPL. The problem is for the olympics of the world where the kids stagnate because they have lumped all the good kids together and there's little competition for them anywhere in the draw.

In the old SAP they rotated them every year so the kids got a fairly well rounded development.

I'm with Kitz on this.

There is a balance between getting flogged every week and challenging yourself but i know our kids get real excited when they play the "big" teams. If every week was the same weaker teams playing each other no one wins.

Let's not forget the a lot of very good players will be at so-called smaller clubs for reasons of club loyalty, family links or even smaller fees. not everyone feels playing for the Olympics of this world will help development. Sometimes being a bigger fish in a smaller pond is preferable to being drowned in a shark tank if you know what I mean! LOL

A

[Aegon]

Yes, The 12s.

From what I understand - 50% of the single team from last season have left, so they would have added approx. 16 new kids this year - No idea where they have all come from.

On a positive note from what I have seen one of the teams is still very strong - very competitive games vs Edgeworth, Northern Tigers & MNC so far. The other has been getting a few goals put on them but I think they'll gel as the season goes on.

3 or 4 of the 12's are exceptional players. I reckon at least 2 of them will be picked up by the jets 13's.

[Jim]

The jaffas won’t continue to be as strong in the sap fields as they have been, huge losses of quality kids to other clubs. Time will tell but the writings on the wall
Incorrect. Only 1 team is new the other is as strong as last year.



Hamilton and magic will always be strong but other clubs have made huge ground on them, Edgy with Jobe wheelhouse involved has attracted some good kids and will only keep on improving its SAP/JDL

Magic werent that strong last year in 10s. Might have to dispense with the assumptions.

[Arsenal222]

[QUOTE=Jim;245436] Incorrect. Only 1 team is new the other is as strong as last year.

Entirely personal opinion, I know the boys that have left and the quality they contained. Still some good kids there but unfortunately for the club we lost the cream over the past two - three years. They lost 6 players

[Alan]

Hi guys,

I was having a yarn with someone "in the know" at games this weekend and they believe that there will be a mix of U12 girls with U11 boys, and U11 girls with U10 boys and so on in the main JDL draw this season. Valo, Cookers, West Wallsend, Wallsend, Lake Mac and Southy were all mentioned as being the boys team to play older age girls.

If true does that mean the grading has already been done by Northern?

A

[Aegon]

If true does that mean the grading has already been done by Northern?

If so, it again raises the question - What is the point of the next 3 weekends at the LMRFF?

TBF - the someone in the know may have been referring to week 3 of the 5 a side games where these teams are already scheduled to play in the 9's, 10's and 11's girls draws. This may or may not be the case in the draw for the season proper.

10's girls week 3 as an example:
https://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?a=ROUND&round=3&client=0-8304-0-582153-0&pool=1

[Jim]

[QUOTE=Jim;245436] Incorrect. Only 1 team is new the other is as strong as last year.

Entirely personal opinion, I know the boys that have left and the quality they contained. Still some good kids there but unfortunately for the club we lost the cream over the past two - three years. They lost 6 players

They have pick up 1 or 2 decent replacements.

The real damage was done when they cut last years U11s to one team. stupid. The Einstein who did that is no longer there.

Thats football I guess. Trying to keep everyone happy at any club is impossible.

[Alan]

If so, it again raises the question - What is the point of the next 3 weekends at the LMRFF?

TBF - the someone in the know may have been referring to week 3 of the 5 a side games where these teams are already scheduled to play in the 9's, 10's and 11's girls draws. This may or may not be the case in the draw for the season proper.

10's girls week 3 as an example:
https://websites.sportstg.com/comp_info.cgi?a=ROUND&round=3&client=0-8304-0-582153-0&pool=1

Hi Aegon,

You could be right about that. I hadn’t even looked as far as week 3! LOL

The person I spoke to did clearly believe that those teams would play vs older girls. Maybe guessing but they are in a senior role at a JDL club so I have no reason to doubt them.

If the draw has been decided you are right to raise the question of ‘why’. I’m not sure and don’t think many are!

But I am willing to embrace it for what it is. Lots of games, lots of kids playing soccer and the season is upon us. Bring it on!

A

[Arsenal222]

[QUOTE=Arsenal222;245448]

They have pick up 1 or 2 decent replacements.

The real damage was done when they cut last years U11s to one team. stupid. The Einstein who did that is no longer there.

Thats football I guess. Trying to keep everyone happy at any club is impossible.

Has Richard Hartley was still with the club, what Einstein are you talking about?

It wasn’t well handled and unfortunately the club don’t care, unless you’re in first grade.

[KITZ]

Hi guys,

I was having a yarn with someone "in the know" at games this weekend and they believe that there will be a mix of U12 girls with U11 boys, and U11 girls with U10 boys and so on in the main JDL draw this season. Valo, Cookers, West Wallsend, Wallsend, Lake Mac and Southy were all mentioned as being the boys team to play older age girls.

If true does that mean the grading has already been done by Northern?

A

The girls playing down against boys has always happened, the old SAP girls always played down a year, HV, MQ, Newcastle, Jets (I can't remember if Jets girls played in their own age group rather than down a year). My son played against them all. My daughter is turning 10 this year but will play 11 and 12 girls. The girls are generally bigger and can be quite strong on the ball, so I wouldn't expect that the boys are going to have an easy time.

The girls are out to prove they deserve to be there. Give the new program a year to build their girls up and I have no doubt the better girls will hold their own even against those teams that think they have the best boys, there is some quite talented girls out there.

the worst thing about the mixed teams is that quite often the boys just ignore them and won't pass to them, just how boys are when they are young (and some of them when they are older. lol).

[Aegon]

What Einstein are you talking about?

Probably best you don't call out people by name as it is one of the forum rules.

Answering your question though: He is still at Jaffa's but wasn't appointed in his role at the time that decision was made - The decision was made by his predecessor.

[Arsenal222]

Probably best you don't call out people by name as it is one of the forum rules.

Answering your question though: He is still at Jaffa's but wasn't appointed in his role at the time that decision was made - The decision was made by his predecessor.

Unfortunately your answer is incorrect. Richard made the selections and his predecessor signed off on it. It is fact not fiction. Might not have been officially in his role however was In charge of the selections and sap

[Jim]

Unfortunately your answer is incorrect. Richard made the selections and his predecessor signed off on it. It is fact not fiction. Might not have been officially in his role however was In charge of the selections and sap

Heard it was the other way round but I dont I can be bothered worrying about it. Its done.

Be interesting to see how many of those lads end up in the Jests.

[Aegon]

Unfortunately your answer is incorrect. Richard made the selections and his predecessor signed off on it. It is fact not fiction. Might not have been officially in his role however was In charge of the selections and sap

That contradicts everything we were told at the club in person at the end of 2019 & the direct correspondence received in the selection letters for 2020.
It was all completed whilst the previous TD was still employed and whilst RH was still appointed at Newcastle Football.

But as Jim said, it's done and dusted. The kids at Jaffa's this year seem happy and are training hard in preparation for the season launch and that's all that matters.

[Arsenal222]

That contradicts everything we were told at the club in person at the end of 2019 & the direct correspondence received in the selection letters for 2020.
It was all completed whilst the previous TD was still employed and whilst RH was still appointed at Newcastle Football.

But as Jim said, it's done and dusted. The kids at Jaffa's this year seem happy and are training hard in preparation for the season launch and that's all that matters.

That’s the point the kids do seem happy it’s just disappointing to lose so many good juniors to other clubs. I know what was said by the club in person I heard it too, but what actually happened wasn’t said. Anyway it’s irrelevant now it’s done and hopefully junior football continues to improve across newcastle

[sapdad]

That’s the point the kids do seem happy it’s just disappointing to lose so many good juniors to other clubs. I know what was said by the club in person I heard it too, but what actually happened wasn’t said. Anyway it’s irrelevant now it’s done and hopefully junior football continues to improve across newcastle

People inside of the Jaffas did not act in the best interests of those kids and thats shameful.Sadly seeing a fair bit of 12's already its clear a lot of teams have thrown the book out and just want to win games this year.The whole point of the program has been lost except for the few teams that stuck solid with the core of their kids and sent them out to play football each week.Those teams will still win the majority of their games and end up in the best position in 13's next year.The clubs that continually took shortcuts or who made decisions that were not in the best interests of the kids will once again be left short and will spend the next few years recruiting kids from other clubs in order to catch up.The cycle continues.

[Arsenal222]

People inside of the Jaffas did not act in the best interests of those kids and thats shameful.Sadly seeing a fair bit of 12's already its clear a lot of teams have thrown the book out and just want to win games this year.The whole point of the program has been lost except for the few teams that stuck solid with the core of their kids and sent them out to play football each week.Those teams will still win the majority of their games and end up in the best position in 13's next year.The clubs that continually took shortcuts or who made decisions that were not in the best interests of the kids will once again be left short and will spend the next few years recruiting kids from other clubs in order to catch up.The cycle continues.

Could not agree more, shameful is the best way it can be put and to double up on it, it wasn’t in the best interest of the club either. Get the feeling you may have been close to the situation also.

Some of the best 12s are already in 13s this year, the ones that aren’t will dominate the 12s and off to the Jets next year.

[Eastwest]

That’s the point the kids do seem happy it’s just disappointing to lose so many good juniors to other clubs. I know what was said by the club in person I heard it too, but what actually happened wasn’t said. Anyway it’s irrelevant now it’s done and hopefully junior football continues to improve across newcastle
Constant player movement happens at all clubs at some time for many reasons. Worse when its a group.

In that mentioned case here may have been some parents that were shown the door and not necessarily about the kids.

The jostling from some parents at this "level" for their lad to seen as special has to be seen to be believed. Not just this sport though, its a cutthroat world to get to the top of politics and sport of which may become one.

I'd like to think that the level of play is improving in all youth footy over the past 3 years.

[Eastwest]

People inside of the Jaffas did not act in the best interests of those kids and thats shameful.Sadly seeing a fair bit of 12's already its clear a lot of teams have thrown the book out and just want to win games this year.The whole point of the program has been lost except for the few teams that stuck solid with the core of their kids and sent them out to play football each week.Those teams will still win the majority of their games and end up in the best position in 13's next year.The clubs that continually took shortcuts or who made decisions that were not in the best interests of the kids will once again be left short and will spend the next few years recruiting kids from other clubs in order to catch up.The cycle continues.

Disagree with this and partly not true. Keeping a whole u9s together for the feelgood factor is a joke.

Many kids who started 9s and in 10s werent in the league of kids that came through at 11s and 12s. Sure keep as many as possible but when these skillful kids from community football come trialing as they've just found out that SAP was a thing they clearly deserved a spot. Thats what SAP JDL was also about.

[sapdad]

Disagree with this and partly not true. Keeping a whole u9s together for the feelgood factor is a joke.

Many kids who started 9s and in 10s werent in the league of kids that came through at 11s and 12s. Sure keep as many as possible but when these skillful kids from community football come trialing as they've just found out that SAP was a thing they clearly deserved a spot. Thats what SAP JDL was also about.

This is why I used the example I did and didnt pass it off as an overall policy.I also used the word 'core' which meant that of course some kids will move.Its not about feelgood,its about developing the kids and doing whats in their best interests.

[sapdad]

The jostling from some parents at this "level" for their lad to seen as special has to be seen to be believed.

Yes and this should be a concern for all involved.Ive seen so many laughable parents already in trial matches this year their kid has no hope of ever making it.Cheering and complaining about rulings in small sided training matches,yelling over the fence completely undermining coaches instructions,complaining post match to coaches about where their kid should be playing.None of it is helpful and will only drive out good people trying to help the kids out.
Its funny though because there are some decent trolls on here complaining of the way we speak about our kids and take an interest in their sport.Hopefully they never actually get to any matches because they would owe us all an apology once they find out who the real nut cases are.What im seeing now is so much different from the first year of the program and I find it all a bit sad really.

[Arsenal222]

Disagree with this and partly not true. Keeping a whole u9s together for the feelgood factor is a joke.

Many kids who started 9s and in 10s werent in the league of kids that came through at 11s and 12s. Sure keep as many as possible but when these skillful kids from community football come trialing as they've just found out that SAP was a thing they clearly deserved a spot. Thats what SAP JDL was also about.

Never once talked about the feel good factor, totally understand there is always someone better and other kids will be knocking that’s junior sport. You mentioned in a previous comment about parents, I do understand some parents out there are unrealistic but to be honest I am talking about this case only and not In general. The parent group we are referring to with this group of kids from 9s - 11s in the main, you couldn’t have asked for a nicer bunch of parents or kids to be honest, much to the disgust of people involved with the club.

What is disappointing is when ill informed people pass judgment when clearly they have no idea.

And just an FYI Jaffas haven’t held trials for the past 2 years in the age group of these boys, some talented boys were identified and brought in for the U11s and others brought in when people chose to leave. The U12s added a second team and then a large number 5-6 from the U11s chose to leave requiring the club to source even more players.

[Aegon]

Never once talked about the feel good factor, totally understand there is always someone better and other kids will be knocking thatÂ’s junior sport. You mentioned in a previous comment about parents, I do understand some parents out there are unrealistic but to be honest I am talking about this case only and not In general. The parent group we are referring to with this group of kids from 9s - 11s in the main, you couldnÂ’t have asked for a nicer bunch of parents or kids to be honest, much to the disgust of people involved with the club.

What is disappointing is when ill informed people pass judgment when clearly they have no idea.

And just an FYI Jaffas havenÂ’t held trials for the past 2 years in the age group of these boys, some talented boys were identified and brought in for the U11s and others brought in when people chose to leave. The U12s added a second team and then a large number 5-6 from the U11s chose to leave requiring the club to source even more players.

It might be handy to reference calendar years with the ages. You’ve jumped between various age groups in the same paragraph and in the end I have no idea which age group you’re actually referring to.
Was it all about 2021 12’s or are you referring to 2021 11’s as well?

[Arsenal222]

It might be handy to reference calendar years with the ages. You’ve jumped between various age groups in the same paragraph and in the end I have no idea which age group you’re actually referring to.
Was it all about 2021 12’s or are you referring to 2021 11’s as well?

The current 2021 12s

[Aegon]

Cheers for the clarification

[cobra23]

:hijack: By Disgruntled JAFFAS parents

[Jim]

:hijack: By Disgruntled JAFFAS parents

Sounds more like a discussion to me. And an insight into what can happen at clubs. Always one to try and inflame things.

Interesting to see how all the kids handle the small sided stuff this weekend.
Shouldnt be too difficult as this is how most would train anyway.

[sideline88]

Interesting to see how all the kids handle the small sided stuff this weekend.
Shouldnt be too difficult as this is how most would train anyway.

watching our kids and a few other clubs train on them over the last few weeks i think the 9/10s well be ok with the 5 a side games, but the 11/12s with 6 players each just seems so crowded.

[scowling]

watching our kids and a few other clubs train on them over the last few weeks i think the 9/10s well be ok with the 5 a side games, but the 11/12s with 6 players each just seems so crowded.

We're going in very cold. Weather has meant lots of washouts and when we did manage to train it was in long grass. Not conducive to getting ready for synthetic.
Our 11s teams are playing with (at most) 1 sub.. meanwhile our U9s and 10s are playing with sometimes 7! subs.

I'm trying to put a good spin on this for the kids, but this whole thing feels off. Going by our draw for the next 3 weeks it looks like we've been kinda/sorta graded already.. not sure how it looks for other teams.

Looks like the weather is holding, hopefully after the next 3 weeks I'll be back here saying I was wrong and that it was awesome and so clear what NNSWF were trying to do...

[Aegon]

Going by our draw for the next 3 weeks it looks like we've been kinda/sorta graded already.. not sure how it looks for other teams.

It’s consistent across the age groups.
1 or 2 games out of the 6 seem to be random but for the majority it’s clear they are playing teams estimated to be at the same level already.

[Aegon]

How’s everyone’s 5v5 and 6v6 experiences go? As expected lots of boys sitting on the bench as much as playing. The heat also threw a spanner in the works today with game cancellations.

Was I the only one who refused to spend money at the centre today out of spite?

[scowling]

How’s everyone’s 5v5 and 6v6 experiences go? As expected lots of boys sitting on the bench as much as playing. The heat also threw a spanner in the works today with game cancellations.

Was I the only one who refused to spend money at the centre today out of spite?

Arrived at 1230 for 1 & 140pm games and they'd called off the previous game. And within minutes learnt both our games also canned. Just devastating for kids who have already lost so much football in the last 12 months.

[Jim]

Arrived at 1230 for 1 & 140pm games and they'd called off the previous game. And within minutes learnt both our games also canned. Just devastating for kids who have already lost so much football in the last 12 months.

ok so rules must followed but, couldnt extra precautions can be added? Large insulated ice water buckets? 1 minute drinks breaks with water on head etc half way through 1st and 2nd half.

Apart from that, next 2 weeks could be doomed as well. March is usually a hot month

[Alan]

How’s everyone’s 5v5 and 6v6 experiences go? As expected lots of boys sitting on the bench as much as playing. The heat also threw a spanner in the works today with game cancellations.

Hi Aegon,

We were at the facility yesterday and the conditions were very poor due to the rain. Sounds the exact opposite of the day before!

My observations were that the concept seems poorly conceived and does not add any real value. Our club receive a Memo this week which talked about the games giving players a chance to show off the 4 core skills of SAP but the games I watched were like grown men 5 a side games: lots of grunt, lots of long shot blasters, lots of subs!!

I did see Northern reps watching games so there was more officials milling around than on normal SAP weekends. I hope Northern get out of this what they need. I am just not sure what that is!! LOL

A

[sideline88]

Hi Aegon,

We were at the facility yesterday and the conditions were very poor due to the rain. Sounds the exact opposite of the day before!

My observations were that the concept seems poorly conceived and does not add any real value. Our club receive a Memo this week which talked about the games giving players a chance to show off the 4 core skills of SAP but the games I watched were like grown men 5 a side games: lots of grunt, lots of long shot blasters, lots of subs!!

I did see Northern reps watching games so there was more officials milling around than on normal SAP weekends. I hope Northern get out of this what they need. I am just not sure what that is!! LOL

A

It was definitely a very wet day down there yesterday for all involved. you mentioned that you seen a lot of subs? for us it was quiet the opposite, we played teams that had been divided into 2 separate teams which allowed almost every player to play full game. Between us and our opposition i think typically we had one player to sub players on and off per half which worked great.

Our young one did comment though that they cannot wait to play on a full field again so they can actually get a chance to actually run with the ball. lots of really quick ball and lots of pressure with the 6v6 format

[Aegon]

All I can say about the 5v5 and 6v6 format is that it was scrappy.
I caught pieces of Olympic v Maitland, Jaffa's v Maitland & Jaffa's vs Olympic as they were the games around us.

Lots of ball stuck against the wall and pushing and shoving to get it. Huge amounts of long shots & dribbling with less emphasis on passing.

[Arsenal222]

All I can say about the 5v5 and 6v6 format is that it was scrappy.
I caught pieces of Olympic v Maitland, Jaffa's v Maitland & Jaffa's vs Olympic as they were the games around us.

Lots of ball stuck against the wall and pushing and shoving to get it. Huge amounts of long shots & dribbling with less emphasis on passing.

The jaffas 12s need to get on the field quickly, looked ordinary on the small pitch and score lines reflected it.

[Jim]

Im currently looking for the best junior Tennis players so Im going to have a table Tennis tournament to make it easier.

[Arsenal222]

Im currently looking for the best junior Tennis players so Im going to have a table Tennis tournament to make it easier.

🤣🤣🤣

Well said.

[Aegon]

Im currently looking for the best junior Tennis players so Im going to have a table Tennis tournament to make it easier.

:roflz:

[Jim]

I noticed Northern had a few officials watching today for the JDL at LMRFF

[Johnno]

I noticed Northern had a few officials watching today for the JDL at LMRFF

Who the Cleaner and the groundsman?

[Jim]

Who the Cleaner and the groundsman?
:rof: :rof:
those 2 plus some others identifying players. Some of these "scouts" are connected to npl clubs. not sure if that is a good idea or not.

[KITZ]

:rof: :rof:
those 2 plus some others identifying players. Some of these "scouts" are connected to npl clubs. not sure if that is a good idea or not.

A few clubs are moving away from open trials and starting to approach players when they are moving into NPL. I know a few clubs are starting to not want to run trials at all, will just invite players in to train. especially in the older age groups.

[sapdad]

by the age of 12 plyers/parents and coaches know who the best kids are.if they think watching them at 6 a side is going to present anything new then they are idiots.contrary to this most of the gun kids ive watched for 3 years looked nothing special in those small courts and its doing them a diservice.everyone i know agrees who the best kids are, they will make Jets and the rest will follow the best coaches and programs into 13s which should be the way.

[BS detecor]

by the age of 12 plyers/parents and coaches know who the best kids are.if they think watching them at 6 a side is going to present anything new then they are idiots.contrary to this most of the gun kids ive watched for 3 years looked nothing special in those small courts and its doing them a diservice.everyone i know agrees who the best kids are, they will make Jets and the rest will follow the best coaches and programs into 13s which should be the way.

And then by 18, most of the kids you thought were outstanding are back in the pack and a new group of hard working late developing players are standing out. Football is the best

[sapdad]

And then by 18, most of the kids you thought were outstanding are back in the pack and a new group of hard working late developing players are standing out. Football is the best

exactly,which is why i hope clubs dont close off trials to kids outside the SAP program.

[Aegon]

How many kids do the Jets select? 15 or 16?

If they follow similar selections as the TSP last year (too much effort to run this year apparently) then in 2022 this years U12 Olympic are going to lose at least 7, Magic maybe 4 & a sprinkling of players from other clubs. The numbers were very similar in this years U11's as well.

Each year, there's always a couple of kids who turn the jets down for one reason or another but that's a lot of big shoes to fill when moving to under 13's NPL.

I wonder if it disincentives some clubs in the future from talent hoarding as "winning" games in SAP may not have a long term benefit.

[sapdad]

How many kids do the Jets select? 15 or 16?

If they follow similar selections as the TSP last year (too much effort to run this year apparently) then in 2022 this years U12 Olympic are going to lose at least 7, Magic maybe 4 & a sprinkling of players from other clubs. The numbers were very similar in this years U11's as well.

Each year, there's always a couple of kids who turn the jets down for one reason or another but that's a lot of big shoes to fill when moving to under 13's NPL.

I wonder if it disincentives some clubs in the future from talent hoarding as "winning" games in SAP may not have a long term benefit.


Think you'll find Magic will have way more than 4. Maitland has a couple as do Jaffas. Plus theres a few kids playing NPL 13's that may stay back next year if they get into the Jets.I dont think any one club will be ripped apart by kids going to the Jets and clubs should be proud to have their kids selected.The likes of Olympic and Magic will never struggle to get talented kids wanting to play there.

[Aegon]

I’m only going off memory when it was discussed early last year. Apparently almost 1/2 Olympics 2021 under 12’s were selected with several of them in the age belows TSP.
I know they wouldn’t struggle to fill their numbers but bringing in players of a similar standard would be almost impossible.

I’ll be very interested to see next years 13’s NPL results anyway to see what sort of an impact the new Club SAP has had vs the association SAP.

Has the program worked in creating a larger cross section of more highly skilled players or not?

[samcan]

I’m only going off memory when it was discussed early last year. Apparently almost 1/2 Olympics 2021 under 12’s were selected with several of them in the age belows TSP.
I know they wouldn’t struggle to fill their numbers but bringing in players of a similar standard would be almost impossible.

I’ll be very interested to see next years 13’s NPL results anyway to see what sort of an impact the new Club SAP has had vs the association SAP.

Has the program worked in creating a larger cross section of more highly skilled players or not?

It has had to improve more kids as more kids are being exposed to higher skilled training and game play.

I Feel there are more than 2 clubs dominating with the top kids now. So many clubs are taking JDL and NPl youth recruitment more seriously. Most recently look at Edgys npl youth results against Olympic on the weekend.

[sapdad]

I Feel there are more than 2 clubs dominating with the top kids now. So many clubs are taking JDL and NPl youth recruitment more seriously. Most recently look at Edgys npl youth results against Olympic on the weekend.

It will be interesting to see the type of football the kids walk into from 13's too.The Edgy results are surprising as I thought Olympic have been the standard bearers in youth for a while (and they certainly have been one of the top SAP programs too).Edgy 13's have a couple of 12's SAP kids in there ( i think Maitland has a few u/12 SAP kids in their 13's as well).I heard Charlestown 13s have a lot of quality kids too.Might make for a pretty entertaining comp for them.

[Arsenal222]

It has had to improve more kids as more kids are being exposed to higher skilled training and game play.

I Feel there are more than 2 clubs dominating with the top kids now. So many clubs are taking JDL and NPl youth recruitment more seriously. Most recently look at Edgys npl youth results against Olympic on the weekend.

I think you’ll find the TSP squad this year will largely make up the kids the Jets will be looking at.

Maitland 12s this year from what I’ve seen and heard will dominate unlike previous years.

Olympic will be strong as always but have lost a couple

Magic continue to be a club of choice

Jaffas continue to lose quality so will be interesting to see how the results go once the team is on a full size pitch

The Jets next year will be an interesting mix from a few clubs, boys playing 13s this year and the 12s JDL..

How are the 12s playing 13s handling it ? Has anyone seen ?

[samcan]

How are the 12s playing 13s handling it ? Has anyone seen ?

I assume you were referring to mainly this years 12s which is pretty close. Still quality at Jaffs but not as many. Edgy are building faster than any at the moment. Though I havent seen all teams yet including Maito.

Interesting that a few top players transferred into into Olympic and magic teams this year from New Lambton, Jaffas and Edgy. Did they do this to be noticed?

[Arsenal222]

I assume you were referring to mainly this years 12s which is pretty close. Still quality at Jaffs but not as many. Edgy are building faster than any at the moment. Though I havent seen all teams yet including Maito.

Interesting that a few top players transferred into into Olympic and magic teams this year from New Lambton, Jaffas and Edgy. Did they do this to be noticed?

I know of 6 that left the Jaffas to get away from the club which is very unfortunate, adding to previous players that have left but ones loss is another’s gain. I know they went to various clubs.

New Lambton players wanted to be in an NPL club set up so I am told.

[sapdad]

New Lambton players wanted to be in an NPL club set up so I am told.
Coaching changes.

[Arsenal222]

Now the JDL grading days are over what’s everyone’s thoughts ?

[Yato]

Waste of time. Especially with a squad of 10 or more. Hardly worth the drive out there and the car park bottleneck.

[Retired01]

Many games during the weeks where people were discussing 10+ goals being scored by the winner so would this be to convince the wannabe's where they should sit in the draws? There are many parents who think their child is great but NNSW certainly did highlight the skill gaps between clubs so maybe it wasnt so silly? Yes I agree futsal is completely different to open field football but watching the supposed strong teams play and then the weak ones you can certainly see the gap in skills

[northern_swan]

Now the JDL grading days are over what’s everyone’s thoughts ?

It was a tough pill to swallow seeing 2 of 3 full size pitches at Speers Point along with a multitude of club facilities sitting dormant whilst kids are being forced to cram into the rage cages. One can only hope Northern realise that this was a dud idea and don’t do it again.

[Arsenal222]

It was a tough pill to swallow seeing 2 of 3 full size pitches at Speers Point along with a multitude of club facilities sitting dormant whilst kids are being forced to cram into the rage cages. One can only hope Northern realise that this was a dud idea and don’t do it again.

Unfortunately looking that the lines at the canteen, I’d say northern will see it as a raging success.

Sad when it has come to the ability of their spin doctors to sell it as a success over the reality of what it was and how harmful it was to the kids. The number of kids I saw being taken from the courts in tears due to injuries and being rammed into walls etc was appalling

[Ghost of Plague]

Over the 3 weeks I saw loads of kids who are the top talent in the program and should be the backbone of the 13s Jets but not one of them looked better on the small field than they did on full field over the last 3 years.
Anyone basing decisions based on what they saw at the facility is joking themselves.

Also saw 2 clubs with one strong team one weaker team and the weaker team was always up against everyone's stronger teams and got pumped. Do they put the whole club in B division or split the teams across the 2 grades? Also one club in the other side of the 6 a side draw pumped everyone a thousand nil but didn't really play anyone? How do you grade that?
I've no problem with NNSW trying something.i just don't think it worked.

All that aside even if it was brilliant id still be bitching because of that ****ing bottleneck trying to get out of the place.!!!!!!

Hope the kids enjoy their football from here on, and the parents help them enjoy it.

[KITZ]

Over the 3 weeks I saw loads of kids who are the top talent in the program and should be the backbone of the 13s Jets but not one of them looked better on the small field than they did on full field over the last 3 years.
Anyone basing decisions based on what they saw at the facility is joking themselves.

Also saw 2 clubs with one strong team one weaker team and the weaker team was always up against everyone's stronger teams and got pumped. Do they put the whole club in B division or split the teams across the 2 grades? Also one club in the other side of the 6 a side draw pumped everyone a thousand nil but didn't really play anyone? How do you grade that?
I've no problem with NNSW trying something.i just don't think it worked.

All that aside even if it was brilliant id still be bitching because of that ****ing bottleneck trying to get out of the place.!!!!!!

Hope the kids enjoy their football from here on, and the parents help them enjoy it.

yep. wasn't really a valid assessment of the skill of a squad at all. I know we didn't win any games, but I also know those games would be much different on a proper field where you actually need skill with the ball to keep it on the field. was a waste of time. would rather have a 4 week "phase 1" draw where they think the teams will be and if it theres any games that show differently then they can move them in Phase 2 and again in phase 3. Its also pointless in the 11/12s not playing teams you will be playing in WPL / NPL because it doesn't give the club an accurate assessment of where they need to improve either.

[Jim]

It was a tough pill to swallow seeing 2 of 3 full size pitches at Speers Point along with a multitude of club facilities sitting dormant whilst kids are being forced to cram into the rage cages. One can only hope Northern realise that this was a dud idea and don’t do it again.

My thoughts as well. Rage cage, perfect description although many did try to play the right way. Id be happy to never see that again. Unless there's real policing of tackling into the wall. Not the game leaders fault either, we just need real enforcement.

[Arsenal222]

To top it all off there are TSP trials next week for the 12s, 9v9. So what was the point of the last 3 weeks? Every week was long lines at the canteen, ridiculous parking, kids getting hurt and parents growing in frustration with the entire JDL set up. If it was suppose to be talent ID and grading what did they get out of it ? Obviously nothing if they’re still holding trials for kids the clubs put forward.

[Aegon]

Great to see in the last week NNSWF fill the technical director & advisor roles.

[Jim]

To top it all off there are TSP trials next week for the 12s, 9v9. So what was the point of the last 3 weeks? .

The whole idea was to grade teams and identify talent. Appears they have done both albeit in a shambolic way. Better than just having clubs send a few lads in.

[Alan]

Now the JDL grading days are over what’s everyone’s thoughts ?

Hi Arsenal,

I went into the Fast5-6 trying to be positive but walked away feeling... meh. It just was... meh.

I liked that Northern have tried something new. I hope there is more innovation to come in the future.

A

[Alan]

To top it all off there are TSP trials next week for the 12s, 9v9. So what was the point of the last 3 weeks? Every week was long lines at the canteen, ridiculous parking, kids getting hurt and parents growing in frustration with the entire JDL set up. If it was suppose to be talent ID and grading what did they get out of it ? Obviously nothing if they’re still holding trials for kids the clubs put forward.

Hey Arsenal

Can you say more about the TSP for 12s? Our club has not received anything from Northern about this.

I’m also surprised you mention the Fast5s included talent ID. Thought this was about team grading? 🤷*♂️🤷*♂️🤷*♂️

A

[Alan]

The whole idea was to grade teams and identify talent. Appears they have done both albeit in a shambolic way. Better than just having clubs send a few lads in.

Everyone seems to know this except our club!!

[Jim]

Everyone seems to know this except our club!!

tbh i didnt know that the 12s tsp trials were on so soon until i saw it above

[Arsenal222]

Hey Arsenal

Can you say more about the TSP for 12s? Our club has not received anything from Northern about this.

I’m also surprised you mention the Fast5s included talent ID. Thought this was about team grading? 🤷*♂️🤷*♂️🤷*♂️

A

I’d say your club is well aware of it, all clubs were asked to put forward names that were to be looked at by northern during these games .. but still trials apparently

[Goatscheese]

Now the JDL grading days are over what’s everyone’s thoughts ?

Be good to finally see them on a proper field

[Alan]

I’d say your club is well aware of it, all clubs were asked to put forward names that were to be looked at by northern during these games .. but still trials apparently

Thnx Arsenal.

I assure you our club was not aware of it. Northern memos normally come to me to pass along to Coaches.

I’m not surprised. We wouldn’t expect to have players in the TSP mix up but it would be nice to know.

It is surprising that Fast5s would be used to
ID players but it makes more sense clubs self nominating. That’s been the way for the last couple of years since every SAP player showed up to the very first U10 tsp trials!! LOL

Trials are super necessary though. We know how things work in clubs sometimes. I just hope Northern watched enough games to draft their own list first. 🤞

A

[Goatscheese]

I assure you our club was not aware of it. Northern memos normally come to me to pass along to Coaches.


Something to chase up with Northern

But probably only got sent to NPL teams, because you know there is no possible way a player with any talent could possibly be at another club in JDL :eyeroll:

[Arsenal222]

Thnx Arsenal.

I assure you our club was not aware of it. Northern memos normally come to me to pass along to Coaches.

I’m not surprised. We wouldn’t expect to have players in the TSP mix up but it would be nice to know.

It is surprising that Fast5s would be used to
ID players but it makes more sense clubs self nominating. That’s been the way for the last couple of years since every SAP player showed up to the very first U10 tsp trials!! LOL

Trials are super necessary though. We know how things work in clubs sometimes. I just hope Northern watched enough games to draft their own list first. 🤞

A

Not sure on your claim they all turned up to the first trial, I know they hard a large number of around 50 but they were all sent by the clubs.

[Arsenal222]

Something to chase up with Northern

But probably only got sent to NPL teams, because you know there is no possible way a player with any talent could possibly be at another club in JDL :eyeroll:

It’s pretty obvious for the educated, if you have the talent to be in TSP and the desire, then being anywhere but an NPL club isn’t the smartest choice you could have made.

[KITZ]

anyone know what age the girls TSP will start at?

Also, has anyone at all seen this draw we were promised today?

[northern_swan]

Also, has anyone at all seen this draw we were promised today?

Crickets from Northern (at least on the website). Meanwhile, the community draws have been released, an infinitely more difficult task than the 7 grades of JDL

[Aegon]

anyone know what age the girls TSP will start at?

Also, has anyone at all seen this draw we were promised today?

4 years straight of draws being released days before the games actually start.
For what is supposedly a premier competition it is treated with a distinct lack of attention from NNSWF.

[sideline88]

Crickets from Northern (at least on the website). Meanwhile, the community draws have been released, an infinitely more difficult task than the 7 grades of JDL

Lucky for community football the joint 3 zones have completed the draw, grading and match allocations themselves for the last few years hence why it’s out. Northern couldn’t deal with trying to get something so complex completed

[Aegon]

First 2 (yes 2!) rounds have been released.

It’s blindingly obvious that the 5-6 a side competitions have meant absolutely nothing.

They have split clubs down a fairly obvious NPL/NL1 line into pool A and pool B with Valo and Lakes being pushed into pool B as well.

A few of the competitive NL1 teams should feel rightfully aggrieved that they are in pool B whilst NPL “B squads” are in pool A.

Very little positive to say.

[sapdad]

Is there a link to this Aegon?

[Aegon]

Is there a link to this Aegon?

Apologies but I was sent it by another parent. I have the phase 2 first 8 week on PDF but can’t figure out how to upload on here by phone. I’ll keep trying to figure it out.

[Aegon]

https://www.facebook.com/100482148490503/posts/256322912906425/?d=n

Try this on Facebook. The page owner has done a great job summarising each age group within the thread.

[sapdad]

https://www.facebook.com/100482148490503/posts/256322912906425/?d=n

Try this on Facebook. The page owner has done a great job summarising each age group within the thread.

Thank you.

[scowling]

https://www.facebook.com/100482148490503/posts/256322912906425/?d=n

Try this on Facebook. The page owner has done a great job summarising each age group within the thread.

Hey Aegon - I'm one of the 3 people in the world without a facebook account - can you possibly post the summary?
From what I can see both NLFC U10 boys teams are in the same "pool" - and like you say, pretty clear NPL v Other clubs divide. Not sure why we went through the grading process to decide that

How are the other age groups looking - any of it make sense?

[sideline88]

Hey Aegon - I'm one of the 3 people in the world without a facebook account - can you possibly post the summary?
From what I can see both NLFC U10 boys teams are in the same "pool" - and like you say, pretty clear NPL v Other clubs divide. Not sure why we went through the grading process to decide that

How are the other age groups looking - any of it make sense?

17171718171917201721

[sideline88]

17221723

[scowling]

Thanks sideline

[Goatscheese]

It’s pretty obvious for the educated, if you have the talent to be in TSP and the desire, then being anywhere but an NPL club isn’t the smartest choice you could have made.

And yet we have kids playing TSP in Sydney today who two years ago were playing community and never went through any SAP program. So no actually and if Northern were serious they would be looking at all SAP teams if they truly want to identify all talent.

[Goatscheese]

First 2 (yes 2!) rounds have been released.

It’s blindingly obvious that the 5-6 a side competitions have meant absolutely nothing.

They have split clubs down a fairly obvious NPL/NL1 line into pool A and pool B with Valo and Lakes being pushed into pool B as well.

A few of the competitive NL1 teams should feel rightfully aggrieved that they are in pool B whilst NPL “B squads” are in pool A.

Very little positive to say.

Especially when said NL1 teams easily beat those NPL squads.

[sapdad]

Especially when said NL1 teams easily beat those NPL squads.

Yes i feel sorry for NL especially in 12's.I know they lost half their squad but the kids that are there are still really good and were cleaning up everyone in the 6 aside games.To have them in a lower tier and keep a couple of the NPL clubs in the top tier is a glaring mistake.

[Aegon]

To myself, the scheduling just looks really lazily done. Only releasing 2 weeks, grouping clubs across age groups, keeping A & B squads together & not rewarding or punishing individual teams abilities is really poor.

Blatantly proves the LMRFF 5 & 6 a side grading reason was a lie.

[Retired01]

Seems 9/10 people here have children in the 12s. I was always told that SAP was all about development. It appears the only Clubs NOT running A and B teams is magic and olympic and I get the whole idea that that they have the best kids (not taking away from the coaches as ive watched them too for my own interest)but why is my club and every other splitting teams to keep up because If they arent split the comp is even.

You can forget all the chat about parents winning and poor coaching as it is being promoted and managed by the clubs. Prove me wrong?

[sapdad]

Seems 9/10 people here have children in the 12s. I was always told that SAP was all about development. It appears the only Clubs NOT running A and B teams is magic and olympic and I get the whole idea that that they have the best kids (not taking away from the coaches as ive watched them too for my own interest)but why is my club and every other splitting teams to keep up because If they arent split the comp is even.

You can forget all the chat about parents winning and poor coaching as it is being promoted and managed by the clubs. Prove me wrong?

Talking to some parents at one club who have one team that has performed better than the other the answer can sometimes be fairly simple.
They had one team of kids that have been together since year 1 and 2. They are comfortable, play well and have developed really well. The other team is made up of mostly new kids and has yet to gel.The parents are hopeful that once they gel as a team they will become just as good as the other team.I can understand not wanting to break up kids that have come this far together.There is probably different situations at other clubs but thats at least one reason why there is a gap in performance at the moment.

[Game_over]

Talking to some parents at one club who have one team that has performed better than the other the answer can sometimes be fairly simple.
They had one team of kids that have been together since year 1 and 2. They are comfortable, play well and have developed really well. The other team is made up of mostly new kids and has yet to gel.The parents are hopeful that once they gel as a team they will become just as good as the other team.I can understand not wanting to break up kids that have come this far together.There is probably different situations at other clubs but thats at least one reason why there is a gap in performance at the moment.

This is the same situation at my sons club, the club has made an effort to have 2 even teams across all ages. Some teams have gelled quicker than others but I'm confident in the coming weeks they will even out.

As far as grading of the competition goes, I don't think we where ever going to get a good result whether NNSW used the last few weeks results or not, grading for the season was never going to be accurate from fast 5/6's results. Hopefully NNSW will use the performances from phase 2 to help form a more even phase 3.

[Arsenal222]

Seems 9/10 people here have children in the 12s. I was always told that SAP was all about development. It appears the only Clubs NOT running A and B teams is magic and olympic and I get the whole idea that that they have the best kids (not taking away from the coaches as ive watched them too for my own interest)but why is my club and every other splitting teams to keep up because If they arent split the comp is even.

You can forget all the chat about parents winning and poor coaching as it is being promoted and managed by the clubs. Prove me wrong?

Grading squads is about developing kids, when kids with equivalent skill levels train together, coaches can plan training sessions to their skill levels and build upon them.

Having a lopsided squad just to get an even result on game day does nothing for the weaker players as the stronger players dominate and the weaker players see the ball far less. It’s the same on training days, do coaches coach to the weakest player or strongest player ? Either way it’s to the detriment of one or the other. Grading squads goes a long way to evening this out and better development, it’s not about winning on game day in JDL it’s the best way to develop kids of all levels.

Grade squads and graded competition will ultimately end up with better football development, happier kids and a stronger football base for the region.

[Dontknowmuch]

Grading squads is about developing kids, when kids with equivalent skill levels train together, coaches can plan training sessions to their skill levels and build upon them.

Having a lopsided squad just to get an even result on game day does nothing for the weaker players as the stronger players dominate and the weaker players see the ball far less. It’s the same on training days, do coaches coach to the weakest player or strongest player ? Either way it’s to the detriment of one or the other. Grading squads goes a long way to evening this out and better development, it’s not about winning on game day in JDL it’s the best way to develop kids of all levels.

Grade squads and graded competition will ultimately end up with better football development, happier kids and a stronger football base for the region.

Completely disagree with all of this. Statistics show that a high percentage of elite footballers come from non elite football streams with a high number coming from country areas. In most cases your kid will develop better in a non-graded team, have more touches etc etc. Graded teams are just for trophy hunters and parents social media pages.

[Arsenal222]

Completely disagree with all of this. Statistics show that a high percentage of elite footballers come from non elite football streams with a high number coming from country areas. In most cases your kid will develop better in a non-graded team, have more touches etc etc. Graded teams are just for trophy hunters and parents social media pages.

Love your statistics post a link with them if you can, your name suits this comment. Tell all the professionals that come through academies that. There are no trophy’s in JDL and most of the most talented footballers I’ve seen in the local JDL have very modest parents who’s kids sports don’t make the social media pages ..

[KITZ]

both of you are wrong.

Some kids need to work with kids at their level to feel comfortable to develop in their own time. Other kids need to find the best and play with and against them as that's how they develop - Win or not, score goals or not.

Every player and child is different. The trick is knowing your own child and coaches understanding what drives one kid might paralyse another and another kid might be completely bored unless they are up against it. The reason why private academies are popular is because all kids are different and sometimes it really doesn't matter where you are playing JDL some kids will want more of a challenge and small group training often provides the extra on top.