2024 Zone League 1

[Aegon]

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[Bremsstrahlung]

Is this the former Zone Premier League?

[Lofty]

Is this the former Zone Premier League?

It would be mate.

[Fred Devils]

Looks like delays in getting divisions out because not enough teams in league 2 can fill 3 grades? what?s the solution? Make league 1 and league 2 smaller and then have 2 smaller leagues below with 2 grades? Interesting so many clubs struggling for a 3rd grade despite the overwhelming vote to keep 3 grades at the ZLF meeting the other week?

[straightred88]

Looks like delays in getting divisions out because not enough teams in league 2 can fill 3 grades? what?s the solution? Make league 1 and league 2 smaller and then have 2 smaller leagues below with 2 grades? Interesting so many clubs struggling for a 3rd grade despite the overwhelming vote to keep 3 grades at the ZLF meeting the other week?

Not good that clubs can?t fill grades. I think the writing is on the wall with third grade. Clubs can vote for 3s all day but in the end NF will just do what Northern tells them.

[Jim]

Not good that clubs can?t fill grades. I think the writing is on the wall with third grade. Clubs can vote for 3s all day but in the end NF will just do what Northern tells them.

The very same problem ive been shot down for by the chest beaters on here and is still the problem.
No wonder the Zone system is a constant drama. Run by too many know it alls who wont listen to common sense.

[Incognito mosquito]

Is there an issue if say only 8/12 teams can field a 3rd grade side? A smaller comp for just 3rds doesn?t seem too bad. Almost appealing for that demographic of players where you get a bit more flexibility with your weekends and still get to play club football opposed to going the all age route. I imagine there would probably a bit of an issue with the admin side of things if the association tried to get cute with the fixtures but I personally don?t mind that option. Happy to be told it?s a scud idea too

[jessepinkman]

Looks like delays in getting divisions out because not enough teams in league 2 can fill 3 grades? what?s the solution? Make league 1 and league 2 smaller and then have 2 smaller leagues below with 2 grades? Interesting so many clubs struggling for a 3rd grade despite the overwhelming vote to keep 3 grades at the ZLF meeting the other week?

would be because most of the blokes that actually put in the shift for their clubs and go to these meetings would be third graders.

Third grade is needed for Zone clubs, take it away and watch many fold (thats if some clubs keep taking 5th division reserve grade too seriously so they cant play in ressies)

[Jim]

would be because most of the blokes that actually put in the shift for their clubs and go to these meetings would be third graders.

Third grade is needed for Zone clubs, take it away and watch many fold (thats if some clubs keep taking 5th division reserve grade too seriously so they cant play in ressies)
Didnt we just hear again that other clubs are struggling to get into or maintain teams in the higher grades because of this?

BS will they fold. They are stalwart clubs and if they did fold they fully deserve it as they were coat tailing on the other poor buggers. Maybe those clubs deserve AllAge.

Not at all am i saying running a big club is easy but depending on 3rds to run the club is pathetic. anyone can go meetings. do a roster ffs. no one is above the club. Geez because noone plays at 10am we cant cook a barby?

3rds is a luxury and should be optional so other clubs can enter or maintain a club in the ZLs with 1st and ressies.

[The Hacker]

Didnt we just hear again that other clubs are struggling to get into or maintain teams in the higher grades because of this?

BS will they fold. They are stalwart clubs and if they did fold they fully deserve it as they were coat tailing on the other poor buggers. Maybe those clubs deserve AllAge.

Not at all am i saying running a big club is easy but depending on 3rds to run the club is pathetic. anyone can go meetings. do a roster ffs. no one is above the club. Geez because noone plays at 10am we cant cook a barby?

3rds is a luxury and should be optional so other clubs can enter or maintain a club in the ZLs with 1st and ressies.

These clubs ?struggling? to fill a 3rd grade I bet have all age side. Why not make one of them the third grade team instead of all age. Pretty simple. Clubs should aim to have 3 teams in ZL instead of 2 in ZL and a heap of all age sides

[Jardelsimage]

Looks like delays in getting divisions out because not enough teams in league 2 can fill 3 grades? what?s the solution? Make league 1 and league 2 smaller and then have 2 smaller leagues below with 2 grades? Interesting so many clubs struggling for a 3rd grade despite the overwhelming vote to keep 3 grades at the ZLF meeting the other week?

There are 23 teams in ZL1 & ZL2 currently, the issue is trying to get one more team to enter ZL2 with a 3rd grade, I believe.
So that makes it the majority of clubs have 3rds and want 3rds across the ZL1,2, & 3 comps.

[Kicktheball]

There are 23 teams in ZL1 & ZL2 currently, the issue is trying to get one more team to enter ZL2 with a 3rd grade, I believe.
So that makes it the majority of clubs have 3rds and want 3rds across the ZL1,2, & 3 comps.

Let's be frank. NF won't have the set teams and set divisions available before Christmas... once again poor administration making it difficult for clubs to promote their teams!

[The Postman]

Friday Night Zone League. 1 team full of the mythical clubmen and BBQ heroes.

Let?s clubs that want to have a 3rd Grade Team have a run and those diehards can show up Saturday arvo to run the BBQ and sink some tins.

[Eastwest]

Friday Night Zone League. 1 team full of the mythical clubmen and BBQ heroes.

Let?s clubs that want to have a 3rd Grade Team have a run and those diehards can show up Saturday arvo to run the BBQ and sink some tins.

Yep. Too easy

[FlatScreen]

Why is this forced promotion happening? What does it achieve?

ZPL is the pinnacle of pub football. A place where you can train less, more relaxed competitive environment. Play with mates. Why ruin that? Making it optional works perfectly fine to make the stepping stones required.

Is this going to make NPL2 stronger? I don't think so. Unless that club has full aspirations and huge $$$ they will just fall over. And who wins out of that?

[straightred88]

Why is this forced promotion happening? What does it achieve?

ZPL is the pinnacle of pub football. A place where you can train less, more relaxed competitive environment. Play with mates. Why ruin that? Making it optional works perfectly fine to make the stepping stones required.

Is this going to make NPL2 stronger? I don't think so. Unless that club has full aspirations and huge $$$ they will just fall over. And who wins out of that?

LOL - that?s how the football pyramid works around the world and how it?s supposed to be. For some reason we think we are different here.

[Jim]

LOL - that?s how the football pyramid works around the world and how it?s supposed to be. For some reason we think we are different here.

We are different. Especially Top zone league. All these EPL players who cant be bothered training or cooking a BBQ and find life gets a little tough so its a static comp but still a decent level. Probably weakens ZL1.

[ForeverRed]

If you don?t have aspirations then why bother, promotion and relegation is where it?s at, get use to it.

[Lofty]

The reality is that clubs do not have the resources, people power and facilities to go to a higher level. Every club has aspirations, but they certainly differ between clubs. So what happens to clubs that simply don't have the facilities to go up? Don't have an enclosed ground which then disadvantages that club to all the others that generate income from spectators? There's a plethora of reasons as to why a top to bottom promotion relegation within 5 divisions of local football in Newcastle won't work.
There absolutely needs to be a minimum of two divisions with promotion and relegation, but there needs to be separation below that.. For sure, if there are clubs that aspire to make that jump, then that can still be achieved. But forcing clubs isn't the right way to do it.
The mid-season phone calls from Northern to clubs within reach of top spot in ZL1 to discuss facilities and upgrades is going to be a good laugh.

[Taffy]

There was a rumour about Northern's plans when clubs refuse to meet any of the requirements because they don't want to go up apparently looking at docking points for the following season. Though many of the requirements are being downgraded to allow these clubs to go up, which seems to be have been the preferred method by Northern.

[ForeverRed]

The reality is that clubs do not have the resources, people power and facilities to go to a higher level. Every club has aspirations, but they certainly differ between clubs. So what happens to clubs that simply don't have the facilities to go up? Don't have an enclosed ground which then disadvantages that club to all the others that generate income from spectators? There's a plethora of reasons as to why a top to bottom promotion relegation within 5 divisions of local football in Newcastle won't work.
There absolutely needs to be a minimum of two divisions with promotion and relegation, but there needs to be separation below that.. For sure, if there are clubs that aspire to make that jump, then that can still be achieved. But forcing clubs isn't the right way to do it.
The mid-season phone calls from Northern to clubs within reach of top spot in ZL1 to discuss facilities and upgrades is going to be a good laugh.

Promotion and relegation in 5 divisions worked for many many years and will again, ask Newcastle Olympic where they came from, ask South Cardiff where they came from, ask Kahibah where they came from, as Valentine where the they came from, those who fight against it will dwindle away for the better.

[Zonal Marking]

I am in the camp of a yes to promotion and relegation throughout the 5 divisions however why does it have to be compulsory that a team has to be promoted?

Why not make it so the team that finishes first past the post has the guaranteed option to move up a division instead of automatically forcing them to?

This way you dont deny any club the opportunity to show ambition but also allow the clubs that are happy with the current league/level they are in to remain there.

[Taffy]

Why leave a club who shouldn't deserve to be in the comp above up there because another team may not want to go up?

[Zonal Marking]

Why leave a club who shouldn't deserve to be in the comp above up there because another team may not want to go up?

Because they have been fortunate that at the end of the season that the club beneath them doesn?t want to take up the promotion offer. It will still keep clubs on their toes and want them to avoid finishing bottom because they won?t want to take the chance that the club that finishes first below them does want to take up the opportunity.

[Taffy]

People who lose every game shouldn't get second chances. People also shouldn't be afraid of change.

[Jim]

People who lose every game shouldn't get second chances. People also shouldn't be afraid of change.

agree mediocrity should go down and then fight to go back up. Remember, the committee has final say and can make a change as they see fit regardless of standing rules.

NL1 should severely lower team rego fees and all the other unnecessary stuff that makes them feel elite. Sure maintain pitch quality and ensure coaching licenses but much of the criteria is unneeded.
Then the ZL teams can go up and keep operating with their current admin setup.

[Zonal Marking]

People who lose every game shouldn't get second chances. People also shouldn't be afraid of change.

It?s easy for you to say that but the reality is some clubs just are not capable of adapting to the change required to be sustainable in a higher division. I just feel the promotion option keeps all parties satisfied.

[Zonal Marking]

I hope you dont mind lofty but I will use the Suns as an example. I have no idea what their club aspirations are however lets just say they are happy playing in the current Zone league set up and have no interest in seriously pushing for NPL.

So the aim is clear for a club in zone league who do have npl aspirations. Finish in front of the Suns after 22 games and claim your promotion. If not no one goes up or down that season. And yes the last placed team in the division above is thanking their lucky stars. The next season they might not be that lucky.

I know this model is not perfect but it seems pretty fair to all parties.

[FlatScreen]

LOL - that?s how the football pyramid works around the world and how it?s supposed to be. For some reason we think we are different here.

They don't have community football? They also certainly do NOT have our landmass/population density. England for example has a population of 56mil (double ours) in land mass like 32 times smaller hahaha.

Zone league is(was) the perfect balance for community football. Not every club wants to make the A-league.

[FlatScreen]

I hope you dont mind lofty but I will use the Suns as an example. I have no idea what their club aspirations are however lets just say they are happy playing in the current Zone league set up and have no interest in seriously pushing for NPL.

So the aim is clear for a club in zone league who do have npl aspirations. Finish in front of the Suns after 22 games and claim your promotion. If not no one goes up or down that season. And yes the last placed team in the division above is thanking their lucky stars. The next season they might not be that lucky.

I know this model is not perfect but it seems pretty fair to all parties.

This is exactly what I think would make sense. Let the flow-up happen if they want it. Otherwise, leave it alone.

Pushing a team up that doesn't want to be there, will NOT benefit a single person.

[straightred88]

They don't have community football? They also certainly do NOT have our landmass/population density. England for example has a population of 56mil (double ours) in land mass like 32 times smaller hahaha.

Zone league is(was) the perfect balance for community football. Not every club wants to make the A-league.

Ah the old land mass argument - please LOL

Let?s just continue with a closed shop of recycled teams then

[Bulldogs 1962]

What is the cost of registering your club in each division. The huge financial ability of clubs will always be the issue.
Back when it was called ID1s ID2s and ID3s, it was a big step for a small club to go from 2s up to 1s as that meant the club was playing for prize money. That prize money was generated via the clubs rego fee, which meant clubs had to generate extra thousands of $ on top of previous year.
Then being newly promoted it was a battle to win any of that prize money, thus the new clubs just worked hard to make the big established clubs richer.

When I was on the committee of a club playing ZPL we asked a local club for around $1500 for sponsorship and needed it to get by. We then had a coach come in from a neighbouring club who played NewFM at the time and he said they asked the same club for $45,000 and got $30,000. We we actually hosted 3 events at the club to give back support when the NewFM club only did one. And this was years ago, can't imagine the financial difference in clubs these days

[straightred88]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

[Alton]

Surely Dudley asone of the better run clubs would want to push for promotion

[Avocadomexican]

Must be tough being a top club in ZPL, dominated most competition across all grades and not wanting to go up. Big fish small pond must be scared. Its like they forget theres something called saturday all age for the 3rd graders to move the side into if they go up (Havent seen the email but have heard about it from numerous people)

[anfield]

Dudley used to be in the 2nd division some years back, possibly 15?? They were one of the clubs including Thornton and Beresfield that were put down by Northern NSW Football into the Zone Leagues despite a strong desire to stay up. It was around the same time Charlestown were put into the second division.

I think there is still quite a strong representation from those years still around the club. So you can't blame them for having some hesitation. Dudley has always had a strong and successful club in 3 grades, They are probably thinking 'If it's not broken, don't fix it' . In regards to maintaining 3 grades.

[WWFC25]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel

They did forward a letter they submitted to the Zone League hierarchy.

It was well written with valid points that any club who did not wish to be promoted would be expressing.

Whether it works or is a bit naive and does not we will see.

I am all for people disagreeing with another clubs actions but when it goes against how the majority of other clubs feel then it?s a pretty idiotic opinion.


But perhaps I?m wrong and every other club is yelling and screaming about wanting to be promoted.

Suns?? Mayfield?? Warners Bay??
All keen are you?..

[Lofty]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

Nothing embarrassing about the letter sent. Your comment is what I would guess very uneducated and one from someone who hasn?t ever been involved with the running of a football club.
It?s not a matter of being scared of the competition on the field, it?s everything that else that comes with making the jump up to the two premier divisions. Dudley and Suns are two similar clubs in a lot of ways. We have had consistent on field and off field success due to the fact we provide an environment for players who are wanting to take a step back from the commitments required in the top two divisions. Somewhere that young players who have a connection with the club to come up and through the ranks. Somewhere that good club people can remain at for a long time due to the fact there are three grades. We certainly have players at the club for 10+ years that start in thirds, make the jump to ressies and firsts and then back down again in their last few years.
You don?t build these club foundations overnight. It?s no surprises that the clubs that really focus on this kind of structure are regularly finishing in the top half of the tables.

There most certainly needs to be promotion and relegation between the top two divisions.
And there also needs to be an option for zone league clubs that wish to make the jump up, to do so in the appropriate way. Forcing clubs to go up that don?t have the infrastructure, man power or that particular ambition is not the way to do it.

Laugh all you want, but the only embarrassing thing are the comments coming from people who literally have no idea.

[ForeverRed]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

Sounds like you are extremely jealous of how good a club Dudley is, how embarrassing

[Jim]

Nothing embarrassing about the letter sent. Your comment is what I would guess very uneducated and one from someone who hasn?t ever been involved with the running of a football club.
It?s not a matter of being scared of the competition on the field, it?s everything that else that comes with making the jump up to the two premier divisions. Dudley and Suns are two similar clubs in a lot of ways. We have had consistent on field and off field success due to the fact we provide an environment for players who are wanting to take a step back from the commitments required in the top two divisions. Somewhere that young players who have a connection with the club to come up and through the ranks. Somewhere that good club people can remain at for a long time due to the fact there are three grades. We certainly have players at the club for 10+ years that start in thirds, make the jump to ressies and firsts and then back down again in their last few years.
You don?t build these club foundations overnight. It?s no surprises that the clubs that really focus on this kind of structure are regularly finishing in the top half of the tables.

There most certainly needs to be promotion and relegation between the top two divisions.
And there also needs to be an option for zone league clubs that wish to make the jump up, to do so in the appropriate way. Forcing clubs to go up that don?t have the infrastructure, man power or that particular ambition is not the way to do it.

Laugh all you want, but the only embarrassing thing are the comments coming from people who literally have no idea.

Assuming people have no idea because they disagree with you says more about your narrow minded persona than anything else.
The reason why you chest beat about success is because you like beating down on smaller clubs and whilst not scared to go up you choose the easier option.
The jump up isnt going to ruin your club but you wont have success and you wont handle that. And since you are so great your players wouldnt have to "train" more or put in a whole lot more to be competitive in 2nd div.
You dont need 3 divs to stay at a club or get young people to stay for a long time at a club G Suburb is a good example. You can have AA fri night or Sat.
I hear a lot of excuses but in reality you prefer my point 2 than anything else. No respect for your club from me on that note.

[Lofty]

Assuming people have no idea because they disagree with you says more about your narrow minded persona than anything else.
The reason why you chest beat about success is because you like beating down on smaller clubs and whilst not scared to go up you choose the easier option.
The jump up isnt going to ruin your club but you wont have success and you wont handle that. And since you are so great your players wouldnt have to "train" more or put in a whole lot more to be competitive in 2nd div.
You dont need 3 divs to stay at a club or get young people to stay for a long time at a club G Suburb is a good example. You can have AA fri night or Sat.
I hear a lot of excuses but in reality you prefer my point 2 than anything else. No respect for your club from me on that note.

It has nothing to do with "success". The demand on the volunteers and the structure of your club changes. Once you make the jump to second division, you are essentially opting into putting your hand up for NPL. And some clubs are simply not set up for that, nor do they want to be.
It's all if's and but's. But what happens if Kotara for instance go on to win ZL1 this year and then what happens, they have to completely upgrade their facilities in a few months? And then what IF they then win second division, they have to all of a sudden become a semi professional set up and pull in sponsors north of $100k to pay wages and run the club? Or start charging their juniors ridiculous rego fees to pay player wages?
Clubs at our level want to remain community clubs.

You don't have to respect our club, that's all good Jim. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. But at the end of the day, I don't hide who I am or who I am associated with. It's easy to go around laughing at clubs on here for voicing their honest opinions when you hide your identity and association.
Now I certainly have no time or respect for anyone that's hiding who they are and where they are from in terms of clubs around this particular conversation. This is a big change and clubs are rightly so divided on opinion. It's all well and good for others to throw in their two cents, but there's not a lot of substance to that.
Would happily put my hand up and be proved wrong if you or old mate straight red are involved with a club.

[straightred88]

Assuming people have no idea because they disagree with you says more about your narrow minded persona than anything else.
The reason why you chest beat about success is because you like beating down on smaller clubs and whilst not scared to go up you choose the easier option.
The jump up isnt going to ruin your club but you wont have success and you wont handle that. And since you are so great your players wouldnt have to "train" more or put in a whole lot more to be competitive in 2nd div.
You dont need 3 divs to stay at a club or get young people to stay for a long time at a club G Suburb is a good example. You can have AA fri night or Sat.
I hear a lot of excuses but in reality you prefer my point 2 than anything else. No respect for your club from me on that note.

1000% correct

[The Hacker]

It has nothing to do with "success". The demand on the volunteers and the structure of your club changes. Once you make the jump to second division, you are essentially opting into putting your hand up for NPL. And some clubs are simply not set up for that, nor do they want to be.
It's all if's and but's. But what happens if Kotara for instance go on to win ZL1 this year and then what happens, they have to completely upgrade their facilities in a few months? And then what IF they then win second division, they have to all of a sudden become a semi professional set up and pull in sponsors north of $100k to pay wages and run the club? Or start charging their juniors ridiculous rego fees to pay player wages?
Clubs at our level want to remain community clubs.

You don't have to respect our club, that's all good Jim. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion. But at the end of the day, I don't hide who I am or who I am associated with. It's easy to go around laughing at clubs on here for voicing their honest opinions when you hide your identity and association.
Now I certainly have no time or respect for anyone that's hiding who they are and where they are from in terms of clubs around this particular conversation. This is a big change and clubs are rightly so divided on opinion. It's all well and good for others to throw in their two cents, but there's not a lot of substance to that.
Would happily put my hand up and be proved wrong if you or old mate straight red are involved with a club.

I have often disagreed with Lofty but here I don?t. I am old enough to have been at Dudley they had a year in first division and watched as they were kicked out of 2nd division like some other clubs cause the ground wasn?t fenced in nor was there a grandstand.
When we went up we ground shared at Lisle Carr so had to pay for the use of it etc. we didn?t finish last but financially and time was for volunteers it?s to big an ask and that?s why the club went back down. As you go up the work needed to comply to new requirements grow. The cost to just enter the comp grows.
I don?t think it?s a case of being scared of the competition FFA cup results in the past 5 years when NPL2 teams played ZPL teams showed that from a footballing side it ain?t a jump. If anything I?d say the top 4 teams in ZPL would have zero fear of an NPL2 team and would back their chances of finishing in the top 4 and even first.
If some clubs want to go up and do it and have a crack then great but if clubs don?t that?s their right to. Does it make one club better than the other NO.

[ForeverRed]

1000% correct
🤦*♂️🤦*♂️

[Bremsstrahlung]

I’m torn, and genuinely curious to see how it all pans out.

On one hand, promotion and relegation across all divisions of the competition is definitely a positive. It’s important for lesser league teams to have the opportunity to strive and build for promotion if they have the ambitions and means. I also think it’s just as important for the higher leagues to filter out their dead wood of struggling clubs that, to this point, have shown little ambition or desire to improve their clubs. I’ll be very curious to see what the threat of relegation does to some clubs.

On the other hand, I can see the changes and additional commitment needed for some of the zone clubs that promotion to NL1 or even NPL would require and how that may stretch resources beyond their capabilities. Nobody wants to see a club pushed up, out of their depth and their committee burnout. Those that run and operate clubs are arguably more important than the players. NNSW should do more to give clubs help where needed in terms of business acumen - how to engage more sponsors, how to manage payments, how to manage operational costs, source contractors for clubs to improve facilities etc.


Devils advocate, I don’t think there would be enough competition if those that weren’t interested in promotion, remained an inter-district competition. Maybe?

So the option left is giving clubs the option to accept or decline. Again, two sides. No promotion also means a struggling team gets another go, which may impact that competition negatively. But also, if any club WANTS promotion, they need to be the best in the league. Unless there’s a contingency plan with say second place having an option to playoff.



Interesting times ahead

[Taffy]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

It is very small minded mentality. All-Age may be better suited for them

And before anyone wants to jump on a high horse I have been on committees for clubs of various levels so am well aware of what is required to run a club at community, Zone and NPL.

[Taffy]

It's all if's and but's. But what happens if Kotara for instance go on to win ZL1 this year and then what happens, they have to completely upgrade their facilities in a few months? And then what IF they then win second division, they have to all of a sudden become a semi professional set up and pull in sponsors north of $100k to pay wages and run the club? Or start charging their juniors ridiculous rego fees to pay player wages?

Very big ifs and buts there that are doing a lot of heavy lifting, Kotara, while it may be possible certainly aren't going to do it in two seasons, any club from Zone (including Croatia), will spend a few years in NL1 first.


Clubs at our level want to remain community clubs.

Then play in the community competitions.

[magician]

, any club from Zone (including Croatia), will spend a few years in NL1 first.



Then play in the community competitions.

Give it a rest, you lot haven?t been first past the post yet. So not sure why your already talking about NL1

[straightred88]

Give it a rest, you lot haven?t been first past the post yet. So not sure why your already talking about NL1

Seems that word Croatia triggers are few on here. I think he?s saying they have ambitions to go up so good luck to them and any other club for that matter who shows ambition.

Wonder how many posts will come about being first past the post if Crouduce Bay go straight to Zone 1 this year or is it just Croatia that you lot want to chop down.

Selective outrage maybe hey

[Fred Devils]

Focusing on this season rather than future seasons, South Maitland have a vacancy for a trial on last weekend of February now that we?re looking to fill. Any clubs interested please message the club on socials or Nik on 0410 189 333. We?re happy to travel or host (if you want to play on our horrendous training field).

[Taffy]

I think it is only clubs they see as a threat to their dominance that they don't like same reason why they don't want promotion and relegation, will be a threat to their dominance.

[magician]

I think it is only clubs they see as a threat to their dominance that they don't like same reason why they don't want promotion and relegation, will be a threat to their dominance.

I?m all for promotion and relegation but saying these teams are scared to go up is a laugh. Haven?t the suns warnesbay, dudley, could be others beaten NL teams quite convincingly.
I could be wrong.

[straightred88]

Focusing on this season rather than future seasons, South Maitland have a vacancy for a trial on last weekend of February now that we?re looking to fill. Any clubs interested please message the club on socials or Nik on 0410 189 333. We?re happy to travel or host (if you want to play on our horrendous training field).

Maybe post in the club notices as well for more people to see it.

[Taffy]

I?m all for promotion and relegation but saying these teams are scared to go up is a laugh. Haven?t the suns warnesbay, dudley, could be others beaten NL teams quite convincingly.
I could be wrong.

I think someone else said scared, I said see it as a threat. Though last year out of the 9 games between zone teams and NL1 teams there was 1 zone team who won and that was against a side that if relegation was a thing was battling to not finish last for first half of the season.

[The Bear]

Very big ifs and buts there that are doing a lot of heavy lifting, Kotara, while it may be possible certainly aren't going to do it in two seasons, any club from Zone (including Croatia), will spend a few years in NL1 first.



Then play in the community competitions.

This is the point. And well said Taffy.

The federation have set the rules, don?t waste your time moaning about it. Accept it, or demote yourselves. It?s easy to talk on here but it you are ambitious lead the way: you?ll be better then Adamstown. If you don?t fancy promotion, there is nothing wrong with that. Stay in your lane and let the Feds know your stance.

Ambition vs enjoyment is a constant.
There is room for both.

[Zonal Marking]

I think someone else said scared, I said see it as a threat. Though last year out of the 9 games between zone teams and NL1 teams there was 1 zone team who won and that was against a side that if relegation was a thing was battling to not finish last for first half of the season.

Judging off the last 5 years the results you?re talking about would appear to be an anomaly. Because in previous years I would argue that the zone teams have a better record against NL1 opposition. And keep in mind these cup fixtures are usually played while the zone teams are still in the early stages of their pre season when the NL1 teams are properly up and running.

[Taffy]

No point talking about the past, though I went back from 2022 to 2016 and teams in the NL1 for those years beat zone league teams 29 times and lost to them 12 times. With 2023 included would make it 38 times won and 13 times lost. Think there was only one year were the results were about even (which would mean that year was the anomaly).

That's before we get into League vs Cup, particularly a cup which neither team has a chance of winning. You'd wonder why any coach would risk their top players if they are still sore from the last game or resting from an injury for a cup game when a league match is on again in 3 days time.

[Kicktheball]

When will clubs know what league they are in? Has anything been sent out?

[Zonal Marking]

No point talking about the past, though I went back from 2022 to 2016 and teams in the NL1 for those years beat zone league teams 29 times and lost to them 12 times. With 2023 included would make it 38 times won and 13 times lost. Think there was only one year were the results were about even (which would mean that year was the anomaly).

That's before we get into League vs Cup, particularly a cup which neither team has a chance of winning. You'd wonder why any coach would risk their top players if they are still sore from the last game or resting from an injury for a cup game when a league match is on again in 3 days time.

Are you taking into account NL1 matches against any zone league opposition or the just the ones against ZPL opponents. Because of course that would make a massive difference.

Either way the matches that NL1 do win are usually narrow victories and you haven?t acknowledged the fact that one team is basically having their first hit out of the year while the other has actually started their season. Everyone who has played knows having match fitness is a huge advantage.

[Jim]

Now I certainly have no time or respect for anyone that's hiding who they are and where they are from in terms of clubs around this particular conversation. This is a big change and clubs are rightly so divided on opinion. It's all well and good for others to throw in their two cents, but there's not a lot of substance to that.
Would happily put my hand up and be proved wrong if you or old mate straight red are involved with a club.

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby :lol::lol::lol:

[magician]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby :lol::lol::lol:

🤦🏼*♂️

[ForeverRed]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby :lol::lol::lol:
🤦*♂️🤷*♂️

[Gelato]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby :lol::lol::lol:

What did I just read 🤦*♂️

[Lofty]

Can someone please check on Jim.

[YerMate]

Here are some points people are forgetting about the promotion from ZL1 to NL1.

1. Comp fees much higher. Not an issue, clubs could make this.
2. ZL1 no TDs required - NL1 TD requires looking at paying 10k most likely for that.
3. Youth setup will be a must for youth development for player growth that will need another TD looking at anywhere from 5k to 10K
4. ZL1 coaches DO NOT need C-Licences so coaching cost will be low if none, NL1 Head coach will need a B-Licence and others C-Licenses. Most likely looking at paying anything from 10 to 20k for coaches.
5. Venue requirements are less in ZL1, we don?t charge for ground entry, NL1 grounds need to be fully fenced perimeter so you have 1 entry point.
6. ZL1 no player wages required. NL1 player wages will be required to be competitive.
7. Just on points above the club expenses jump up at least 60 to 100k on what ZL1 have already.

Just to clarify things Newcastle Suns have no issues with being promoted. However, I have a lot of issues with the points above and the costs that come with them and requirements.

[Killa]

Nice little insult with the hiding and no substance bit but not much coming from a pretender. I'm here giving some fair truths and you cant help but have a cry which is standard from your lot. My 2c is as good or perhaps even better as I'm not locked on to 1 club. I speak for a sporting competition from experience and what I've seen in other comps outside of your one eyed world.

So you know all about Kotara? Why worry about NPL when consolidating NL1 a few seasons. At least they have some nuts for taking it on. Better than being small minded heros refusing to go up. Cooks Hill proves you can, New lambton did it. Only need the vision, integrity and drive. Youd be missing that stuff. Slotting in some ex first graders doesn't really work in the long term does it. lol.
As for substance, you dont have much. My initial points stand up over the long term.
Bye champ. Still here not hiding. Get back on your barby :lol::lol::lol:

1839

[Taffy]

Are you taking into account NL1 matches against any zone league opposition or the just the ones against ZPL opponents. Because of course that would make a massive difference.

Either way the matches that NL1 do win are usually narrow victories and you haven?t acknowledged the fact that one team is basically having their first hit out of the year while the other has actually started their season. Everyone who has played knows having match fitness is a huge advantage.

Are you taking into account that NL1 teams don't always play their best players? I recall in a thread last year one team playing a couple 15yos in their FFA cup match against a zone team.

[Zonal Marking]

Are you taking into account that NL1 teams don't always play their best players? I recall in a thread last year one team playing a couple 15yos in their FFA cup match against a zone team.

Are you taking into account the zone teams dont always play their best players either? A lot of these fixtures are midweek and the reason some of these guys play at zone level is because they can?t commit to training/games during the week.

[Taffy]

Here are some points people are forgetting about the promotion from ZL1 to NL1.

2. ZL1 no TDs required - NL1 TD requires looking at paying 10k most likely for that.

That's not a requirement


3. Youth setup will be a must for youth development for player growth that will need another TD looking at anywhere from 5k to 10K

No requirement to have youth teams so no need for another TD. I thought this was the TD you were talking about, so who is the first TD?

Not that it matters neither of them are required.


4. ZL1 coaches DO NOT need C-Licences so coaching cost will be low if none, NL1 Head coach will need a B-Licence and others C-Licenses. Most likely looking at paying anything from 10 to 20k for coaches.

Now you are starting to get close but an NL1 head coach and head reserve grade only requires a C-Licence all others only need the senior community certificate. Now if the current coach is happy to be paid a small amount, why would that change? The club could just pay the $1,000 for him to get his C-Licence. Certainly small changed compared to the 10K claimed.


5. Venue requirements are less in ZL1, we don?t charge for ground entry, NL1 grounds need to be fully fenced perimeter so you have 1 entry point.

Not all NL1 clubs currently have only one entry point. While zone doesn't charge for ground entry there is no reason why any promoted zone team must start charging for ground entry it's not a requirement and I've been to a few games over the past couple years where I haven't been charged. Though isn't the Suns field fully enclosed now?


6. ZL1 no player wages required. NL1 player wages will be required to be competitive.

Let's stop pretending players aren't currently paid, but this is also a potential valid issue


Just to clarify things Newcastle Suns have no issues with being promoted. However, I have a lot of issues with the points above and the costs that come with them and requirements.

Some of the points are valid but some aren't even close, no issue with not liking being promoted but let us at least ensure our reasons are based in fact.

[Taffy]

Are you taking into account the zone teams dont always play their best players either? A lot of these fixtures are midweek and the reason some of these guys play at zone level is because they can?t commit to training/games during the week.

Regardless the actual data shows that it isn't a walloping not to mention cup games are different to a league.

[ZLWB]

Heard Dudley sent an email out that they are strongly against Pro/Rel ?

If true haahhaha - what an embarrassing club.

Why is that embarrassing?
If they don?t want to meet the extra requirements of NL1 why should they?

[jessepinkman]

Why is that embarrassing?
If they don?t want to meet the extra requirements of NL1 why should they?

bit of a double edged sword.

An open pyramid in newy is best for development here. Clubs can start a movement and go as far as their ambition allows them to.

Clubs that actively dont have the ambition are working against that system.

Dudley has the right to exist at the highest level of competition they want to, but football also has the right to progress. Dudleys ambitions suit only themselves, not the betterment of the game, but then again, why do they have to serve the wider game?

Depends on how you see newy football. Is it a competition for a bunch of also rans who would play amateurs in a big city to chest beat at the pub? Or is it a vehicle for our local kids to go on to bigger and better things?

[jessepinkman]

Regardless the actual data shows that it isn't a walloping not to mention cup games are different to a league.

There's always a handful of players in ZPL that would be top players in NL1. Some would start in the NPL.

But most of the rest of the players in ZPL wouldnt even make ressies in NL1. Usually its those ones that chirp the most about beating a rotated squad from the league above.

Same thing happens when an NL1 team beats or comes close to an NPL team. Cycle of football. Happens in every cup comp everywhere in the world. You cant really compare two clubs from a cup competition. 90 mins in the first few rounds for some clubs is an extra training match in a comp they wont win.

For others, a win in rd 1 against an opponent above is enough for them to get RSI in their knuckles on this forum about for years. Horses for courses.

[2ndclasscitizen]

1840

The full text of the Dudley letter in question (I've attached it, no idea if it worked):


On behalf of our club, we would like to formally submit our response to the aforementioned item and strongly oppose this notion. We cannot express our disappointment and opposition of this enough, and feel that it will be a great detriment to not only our club but the competition in general.

We have deep concerns about the viability of our club if we are forced to be promoted (there is a strong chance of this as we have been club champions the last 2 seasons) and the implications associated with being promoted. The committee, coaching staff and players are all strongly opposed to this, and we feel that if the Joint Board proceed with this idea, then it will bring the integrity of the competition into question due to the fact that teams could field weakened teams to ensure they don?t finish 1 st . Zone league football has always provided a robust competition that is very competitive and that should never be compromised.

As a club, we deeply value the culture and benefits of having 3 grades. Whilst we acknowledge the 1 st grade has always been the primary focus for our club we have never underestimated the importance of our 3 rd grade to our club. We see our 3 rd grade team as a place for our ex 1 st grade players to still be associated with the club but also an important pathway for our younger players (many who have watched from the sidelines as juniors) to gain valuable experience in men?s football. Furthermore, a significant amount of our sponsorship is generated from our 3 rd grade players who want to give back to the club. It is these players who will leave the club and not only take valuable experience, mentorship and guidance they will also take their sponsorship and that is something that will have a detrimental on the viability of our club. The culture of our club is built around our 3 rd grade teams and they are often the players who set up the ground, man the BBQ /
Canteen, and are there for the whole day supporting the teams and packing up at the end of the day.

We have analysed our income over the past couple of years and conservatively estimate a drop in excess of 30% should we be promoted and lose the current structure of our club.

Importantly, our current 3rd grade squad consists of;
? 2 x life members,
? 1 x ex president,
? 1 x ex vice-president,
? 1 x current treasurer,
? 4 x current committee members,
? 2 x major sponsors and
? 1 x current canteen manager.

Hopefully this reiterated the importance of 3 rd grade to the culture and sustainability to our club.

In finishing, we would like to reiterate our stance on this item and feel that it is imperative that you listen to your members and reconsider the decisions made by the Joint Board.

Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

[Taffy]

Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc).

Clearly because it is not any issue to them (and I would argue they meet those requirements anyway) it is all self interest by the people who wrote the letter. (Wonder how many of the players they actually asked or was it just the 12 3rd grade players?). They say 3rd grade is also for the young players coming in but 12 of the players are all long term committee members, not much room to blood in last year's U18s side who have been watching from the sideline.

They also clearly don't understand how promotion works because it's based on who finishes 1st in 1st grade nothing to do with club championship, over the past two years, Suns would've been promoted not Dudley. Not sure what Dudley are worried about, they haven't finished top in 1st grade for at least 12 years.

Of course there is another potential way around it. Should Dudley win it and get promoted they could always look to enter a Zone League 3 side, they would only need another team for firsts and reserves and all these people that are walking away will not only still be able to play Zone but also they will have 16 more spots to blood in all these young juniors.

[magician]

What happens if Newcastle olympic win zone league and then NL 1
Do we have 2 Newcastle Olympics in NPL.

[Hunter403]

What happens if Newcastle olympic win zone league and then NL 1
Do we have 2 Newcastle Olympics in NPL.

the rules do not permit this

[straightred88]

1840


The full text of the Dudley letter in question (I've attached it, no idea if it worked):



Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

WOW LOL what a letter

[straightred88]

the rules do not permit this

For Northern maybe but NF like to bend and not follow their own rules

[Chips]

1840



Interestingly there is no mention of the requirements that others have brought up in here as reasons why a ZL club may not want to get promoted (i.e. ground requirements, coaching quals, juniors etc). Instead their entire argument is centered around the loss of 3rd grade should they get promoted. The question is why these 3rd graders who volunteer, are on the committee and are supposedly the lifeblood of the club would not only walk away from the club purely because they have to play All Age or O35s instead of ZL 3rds, but would also take their sponsorship dollars with them. The fact that 30% of the club's sponsorship is tied up to a group like that should be quite concerning as well.

I?ll make it pretty simple why 30% of sponsorship would go if you lost 3rd grade.
If a business gives a club $9000 as a sponsorship this year for 3 teams. Next year when there is 2 teams in the club what will the business give the club. The answer $6000. So the club loses 30% of sponsorship.

No business that is run by anyone with half a brain is giving a club the same money for 30% less exposure, participants it make no sense.

If your argument is the sponsorship is more valuable between ZL1 and NL1 you?re taking the piss. The local pub and club that sponsors team from NPL to ZL3 pays an amount on how many teams the club has and the return they will get. So if there is 30% less club the sponsorship will drop

Hope that makes it easy to understand and it won?t be just Dudley it will be all clubs in the same boat

[Jim]

I?ll make it pretty simple why 30% of sponsorship would go if you lost 3rd grade.
If a business gives a club $9000 as a sponsorship this year for 3 teams. Next year when there is 2 teams in the club what will the business give the club. The answer $6000. So the club loses 30% of sponsorship.

No business that is run by anyone with half a brain is giving a club the same money for 30% less exposure, participants it make no sense.

If your argument is the sponsorship is more valuable between ZL1 and NL1 you?re taking the piss. The local pub and club that sponsors team from NPL to ZL3 pays an amount on how many teams the club has and the return they will get. So if there is 30% less club the sponsorship will drop

Hope that makes it easy to understand and it won?t be just Dudley it will be all clubs in the same boat

The fk?
Maybe you need to get out of the local pub and look for other sponsors. Maybe get 2 sponsors or even 3 or god forbid 4.
Staring to think that ZL has the laziest boneheaded bogans in Newy business wise. FFS just have a beer drinking club and give the football away. That seems to be the priority here. better still setup your own micro brewery.
So youre also saying if you had 15 grades you'd get 15x the money lol. fk me.
Now not saying it's easy but can be done. If your club had 2 grades in 2nd tier I prefer to sponsor them than ZL.
Waits for more excuses. Yawn

[Thomas477]

I?m with those who are asking why these guys couldn?t just play in an all age game before the NL1 games?

Seems a bit pretentious to say that anyone playing 3rd grade ZL1/ZPL is too good for all age. And if it?s a rego thing, surely NNSWF now being run by NF and co they can come to some sort of agreement. As long as there?s 3 teams, the sponsorship can stay the same.

[Chips]

The fk?
Maybe you need to get out of the local pub and look for other sponsors. Maybe get 2 sponsors or even 3 or god forbid 4.
Staring to think that ZL has the laziest boneheaded bogans in Newy business wise. FFS just have a beer drinking club and give the football away. That seems to be the priority here. better still setup your own micro brewery.
So youre also saying if you had 15 grades you'd get 15x the money lol. fk me.
Now not saying it's easy but can be done. If your club had 2 grades in 2nd tier I prefer to sponsor them than ZL.
Waits for more excuses. Yawn

You are a flog. I used a pub as an example cause every team from top to bottom has one. And every club has multiple
The local painter gives you 5k for a sign to advertise there is one less game every home game so it?s worth less.
Last time I checked no one lost sheep stations if they lose a game so yeah the good strong clubs have a good social aspect too.

[Jake]

I?m with those who are asking why these guys couldn?t just play in an all age game before the NL1 games?

Seems a bit pretentious to say that anyone playing 3rd grade ZL1/ZPL is too good for all age. And if it?s a rego thing, surely NNSWF now being run by NF and co they can come to some sort of agreement. As long as there?s 3 teams, the sponsorship can stay the same.

Because All Age play on a Friday night or Saturday whereas some Zone League Teams (e.g Dudley) play their home games on a Sunday. Moving a 3rd grade team to all age would remove the link between them and the grade system which from what I have seen at a number of clubs would be damaging to the culture and mateship that 3rd division football thrives on.

The idea that current 3rd grade players would spend half of their Saturday playing their own game all age game and then front up for most of Sunday to support the Zone League/NL1 side is unrealistic. People have families and interests outside of football that they would also like to fit in over the weekend.

Maybe an all age competition that?s draw was closely aligned with the affiliated Zone/NL1 side would fix that but I would imagine that would be very difficult to schedule.

[Taffy]

I?ll make it pretty simple why 30% of sponsorship would go if you lost 3rd grade.
If a business gives a club $9000 as a sponsorship this year for 3 teams. Next year when there is 2 teams in the club what will the business give the club. The answer $6000. So the club loses 30% of sponsorship.

There will still be three teams, though if the club did my idea would that mean their sponsors would increase the amount by 30% since they would have 4 teams now.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Because All Age play on a Friday night or Saturday whereas some Zone League Teams (e.g Dudley) play their home games on a Sunday. Moving a 3rd grade team to all age would remove the link between them and the grade system which from what I have seen at a number of clubs would be damaging to the culture and mateship that 3rd division football thrives on.

The idea that current 3rd grade players would spend half of their Saturday playing their own game all age game and then front up for most of Sunday to support the Zone League/NL1 side is unrealistic. People have families and interests outside of football that they would also like to fit in over the weekend.

Maybe an all age competition that?s draw was closely aligned with the affiliated Zone/NL1 side would fix that but I would imagine that would be very difficult to schedule.

NL1 play Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Most of the guys setting up the Athtrack for our home matches head off to their All Age matches afterwards.

[Lofty]

I?m with those who are asking why these guys couldn?t just play in an all age game before the NL1 games?

Seems a bit pretentious to say that anyone playing 3rd grade ZL1/ZPL is too good for all age. And if it?s a rego thing, surely NNSWF now being run by NF and co they can come to some sort of agreement. As long as there?s 3 teams, the sponsorship can stay the same.

This just doesn't work because on the days that your all age team doesn't play against another club that has an all age team in place of thirds, you play at a different ground and usually a different time slot. Suns during one of the covid seasons pulled out of the third grade comp due to there being only a handful of teams and we instead played in an all age comp so we had a full season and it was a proper pain in the ass.

At the end of the day, nothing is going to be solved on here in a place full of keyboard warriors. Dudley and Suns are pretty much the only clubs that have come on here to voice their opinion. I'm very confident that every club in ZL1 are against the removal of thirds. It will change the whole dynamic of the comp at this level. Turnover of players year on year will greatly increase due to the fact you can't have longevity of players over three grades and simply less spots to offer. Going to all age creates and immediate disconnect between the squad. It will be the downfall of the zone division.

[straightred88]

More importantly where is the make up of the zone divisions - NF asleep at the wheel again

[Zonal Marking]

This just doesn't work because on the days that your all age team doesn't play against another club that has an all age team in place of thirds, you play at a different ground and usually a different time slot. Suns during one of the covid seasons pulled out of the third grade comp due to there being only a handful of teams and we instead played in an all age comp so we had a full season and it was a proper pain in the ass.

At the end of the day, nothing is going to be solved on here in a place full of keyboard warriors. Dudley and Suns are pretty much the only clubs that have come on here to voice their opinion. I'm very confident that every club in ZL1 are against the removal of thirds. It will change the whole dynamic of the comp at this level. Turnover of players year on year will greatly increase due to the fact you can't have longevity of players over three grades and simply less spots to offer. Going to all age creates and immediate disconnect between the squad. It will be the downfall of the zone division.

Good point I?m struggling to think of too many clubs in the current competition who would want rid of thirds.

Off the top of my head
Suns
Dudley
Warners Bay
Mayfield
Uni

These clubs as far as I?m aware all have very strong numbers even having to turn players away and you could probably add another 2 or 3 to the list.

[Lofty]

Good point I?m struggling to think of too many clubs in the current competition who would want rid of thirds.

Off the top of my head
Suns
Dudley
Warners Bay
Mayfield
Uni

These clubs as far as I?m aware all have very strong numbers even having to turn players away and you could probably add another 2 or 3 to the list.

Kotara for sure. They have definitely had a shift and are a very young squad and thirds a big part of that.
Cardiff are for it, despite numbers tough the last couple of seasons.
Westlakes have made big improvements.
Azzurri fav grade is thirds.
Swansea often strong in thirds.
Olympic had a mix of older clubman and younger guys.
Minmi I don't rally have much knowledge about.

There's no club that I'm aware of in 2023 ZPL that would want to remove thirds. And as per the zone meeting last year, there was only one club across all the zone leagues that wasn't for it.

[Kicktheball]

More importantly where is the make up of the zone divisions - NF asleep at the wheel again

Will probably get the draws in march. Have any dates been provided to clubs?

[Lofty]

Will probably get the draws in march. Have any dates been provided to clubs?

Round one was pencilled in for 30/31 March just dependant on there being 12-team comps. Don’t think it will change.

[Alton]

Kotara for sure. They have definitely had a shift and are a very young squad and thirds a big part of that.
Cardiff are for it, despite numbers tough the last couple of seasons.
Westlakes have made big improvements.
Azzurri fav grade is thirds.
Swansea often strong in thirds.
Olympic had a mix of older clubman and younger guys.
Minmi I don't rally have much knowledge about.

There's no club that I'm aware of in 2023 ZPL that would want to remove thirds. And as per the zone meeting last year, there was only one club across all the zone leagues that wasn't for it.

Is Cardiff in ZL1 or 2?

[Taffy]

Good point I?m struggling to think of too many clubs in the current competition who would want rid of thirds.

Off the top of my head
Suns
Dudley
Warners Bay
Mayfield
Uni

These clubs as far as I?m aware all have very strong numbers even having to turn players away and you could probably add another 2 or 3 to the list.

They aren't all going to be going up, so not going to be any issue for most of these teams.

[ForeverRed]

Is Cardiff in ZL1 or 2?
One

[MurderOnZidanesFloor]

One

Croudace Bay ZL1 for Cardiff to ZL2.

[Lofty]

They aren't all going to be going up, so not going to be any issue for most of these teams.

I think the discussion is more around the call to remove third grade from 2025 onwards in the zone leagues.

It was announced at the recent zone meeting and subsequently opposed with a vote from all clubs at the meeting and that information was going back to Northern.

[Taffy]

I think the discussion is more around the call to remove third grade from 2025 onwards in the zone leagues.

It was announced at the recent zone meeting and subsequently opposed with a vote from all clubs at the meeting and that information was going back to Northern.

Fair enough though Dudley's letter was about should they be promoted for 2025 season.

[Lofty]

Fair enough though Dudley's letter was about should they be promoted for 2025 season.

Didn't notice that at first, but yeah I'm certain it relates to both scenarios which come into affect in 2025.
There hasn't been any further correspondence from Newcastle Football since that meeting, but I'm sure we will hear more about it in due course. Maybe after we find out what's going on in 2024!

[anfield]

More importantly where is the make up of the zone divisions - NF asleep at the wheel again

My guess, Still a couple of big decisions to be made. Those decisions haven't been made as probably the office was shut for the last few weeks. I would think they might return to work next week.

[Fred Devils]

Yeah plus many of the ZL3 clubs still declining stepping up to ZL2 as they’re not getting a 3rd grade. Have also heard that some of last year’s (now ZL2) teams wanted to go down but were told no because NF knows they have the numbers for 3 grades

[UniMen]

2024 ZL Divisions

https://ibb.co/ch3MGGY

[Fred Devils]

Can?t believe they didn?t put either Croatia or Crabs into ZL1. Should be interesting year in ZL2

[straightred88]

Can?t believe they didn?t put either Croatia or Crabs into ZL1. Should be interesting year in ZL2

Win 2 games all year and get looked after. That?s NF for you

[Fred Devils]

Someone at Cardiff stamping their feet saying ?no one met the criteria to be promoted so can?t relegate us??

[Lofty]

Confirmed.

League One
(Formally Premier League)
3 Grades
1 Cardiff City FC
2 Dudley Redhead USSC
3 Hamilton Azzurri FC
4 Kotara South FC
5 Mayfield United Senior FC
6 Minmi Wanderers FC
7 Newcastle Olympic FC
8 Newcastle Suns FC
9 Newcastle University FC
10 Swansea FC
11 Warners Bay FC
12 Westlakes Wildcats FC

League Two
(Formally League One)
3 Grades
1 Bolwarra Lorn JSC
2 Cooks Hill UFC
3 Croudace Bay FC
4 Mayfield United JSFC
5 Merewether Advance SFC
6 New Lambton FC
7 Newcastle Croatia FC
8 North United Wolves FC
9 South Maitland FC
10 Stockton Sharks FC
11 Southern United FC
12 Wallsend FC

League Three
(Formally League Two)
2 Grades
1 Barnsley USC
2 Bellbird FC
3 Charlestown FC
4 Garden Suburb FC
5 Greta Branxton FC
6 Kurri Kurri FC
7 Lake Macquarie FC
8 Lambton Jaffas JFC
9 Medowie FC
10 Merewether United FC
11 Nelson Bay FC
12 Southern Lakes FC

[Kicktheball]

Confirmed.

League One
(Formally Premier League)
3 Grades
1 Cardiff City FC
2 Dudley Redhead USSC
3 Hamilton Azzurri FC
4 Kotara South FC
5 Mayfield United Senior FC
6 Minmi Wanderers FC
7 Newcastle Olympic FC
8 Newcastle Suns FC
9 Newcastle University FC
10 Swansea FC
11 Warners Bay FC
12 Westlakes Wildcats FC

League Two
(Formally League One)
3 Grades
1 Bolwarra Lorn JSC
2 Cooks Hill UFC
3 Croudace Bay FC
4 Mayfield United JSFC
5 Merewether Advance SFC
6 New Lambton FC
7 Newcastle Croatia FC
8 North United Wolves FC
9 South Maitland FC
10 Stockton Sharks FC
11 Southern United FC
12 Wallsend FC

League Three
(Formally League Two)
2 Grades
1 Barnsley USC
2 Bellbird FC
3 Charlestown FC
4 Garden Suburb FC
5 Greta Branxton FC
6 Kurri Kurri FC
7 Lake Macquarie FC
8 Lambton Jaffas JFC
9 Medowie FC
10 Merewether United FC
11 Nelson Bay FC
12 Southern Lakes FC

Croatia may find themselves stuck in league 2 for a while. Southern will get promoted.

[ForeverRed]

Up the tigers

[straightred88]

Croatia may find themselves stuck in league 2 for a while. Southern will get promoted.

Southern team from last season wouldn?t beat Croatia or Croudace Bay based on the games I saw them play imo.

Anyway back to the zone 1 which is this thread, Suns will win it again and Cardiff for relegation

[Jardelsimage]

Someone at Cardiff stamping their feet saying ?no one met the criteria to be promoted so can?t relegate us??

sorry freddy boy, no feet stamping out of the Tigers...so let's stir the pot somewhere else.

[riverboy]

Someone at Cardiff stamping their feet saying ?no one met the criteria to be promoted so can?t relegate us??
Should be an investigation into that....

[straightred88]

Should be an investigation into that....

Can?t be the criteria so to speak as a few clubs would meet it, so who the hell knows why a team that performed so badly was kept up by NF.

With the resignation of Russell Henry I think things at NF will only get worse.

[prawnhead]

Can?t be the criteria so to speak as a few clubs would meet it, so who the hell knows why a team that performed so badly was kept up by NF.

With the resignation of Russell Henry I think things at NF will only get worse.

I could be missing something but in a promotion/relegation situation, isn't it the premiers in the lower division who are entitled to promotion (providing they're eligible). In this situation the Hamilton Azzurri club weren't eligible because the club already had teams in the division above.

With the premiers Azzurri not being eligible and with Cardiff probably not wanting to be relegated, they wouldn't have needed to stomp their feet.

No doubt Cardiff need to improve in season 2024 to avoid relegation, but maybe those on here whinging about Cardiff need to get their own club in order. That is, win the premiership (and be eligible) instead of feeling entitled based on criteria.

Criteria should only play a part if the side that finished last were happy to be relegated, or where the comp above needed more numbers (which has happened in last couple of years).

[Vincent]

Shout out to all the salty boys here that can?t tie the laces of the mighty tigers! ZPL BABY!!!!

[Lofty]

shout out to all the salty boys here that can?t tie the laces of the mighty tigers! Zpl baby!!!!

zl1

[Thomas477]

zl1

So you could argue that they were relegated, along with everyone else…..

[Jardelsimage]

Can?t be the criteria so to speak as a few clubs would meet it, so who the hell knows why a team that performed so badly was kept up by NF.

With the resignation of Russell Henry I think things at NF will only get worse.

you could always apply for the job, you seem to have all the answers?

[straightred88]

you could always apply for the job, you seem to have all the answers?

Thought this was a forum where you can voice your opinion? You can relax now your tigers are safe for another season by default.

[riverboy]

Being serious, The morale thing would have been to forfeit your spot.
Cardiff had 22 rounds to prove their worth last year and were well off the pace.

What's the point of having promotion / relegation if you just use a technicality to keep others out.

Poor form

[Jardelsimage]

Thought this was a forum where you can voice your opinion? You can relax now your tigers are safe for another season by default.

It is and yes you can have yours and i will have mine...

your with Sth Maitland?? just so we get all our ducks aligned..

[Jardelsimage]

Being serious, The morale thing would have been to forfeit your spot.
Cardiff had 22 rounds to prove their worth last year and were well off the pace.

What's the point of having promotion / relegation if you just use a technicality to keep others out.

Poor form

2023 does not equal 2024

[riverboy]

2023 does not equal 2024

West TIGERS are saying the same thing.

[Golden Goal Fan]

I’m not involved with Cardiff but I’d much rather be going to Evans Park than some other grounds on the draw. Also big ups to the tigers canteen.

[Taffy]

Criteria should only play a part if the side that finished last were happy to be relegated

Which club is going to be happy to be relegated?

Should be simple next year though 1st up, last down.

[prawnhead]

Which club is going to be happy to be relegated?

Should be simple next year though 1st up, last down.

What I was trying to say was that it may suit a club to be demoted/relegated if they're going through a rough patch - a time to rebuild. May be a better option than to fold a club as some clubs have done in the past.

Agree - finish 1st and it takes any doubt and ambiguity out of it.

[Jim]

Which club is going to be happy to be relegated?

Should be simple next year though 1st up, last down.

agree but that would make it hard for the trophy hunters from certain clubs.

btw Mayf juniors came last in 2s and didnt go down. Not one word about that anywhere. Only Cardiff can be crims apparently

[Avocadomexican]

agree but that would make it hard for the trophy hunters from certain clubs.

btw Mayf juniors came last in 2s and didnt go down. Not one word about that anywhere. Only Cardiff can be crims apparently

Boo! Dont let the truth get in the way of a good storyline. Though Cardiff were off the pace lastyear in 1s they still pulled some half decent results in Reg/3s to finish mid table. Don't imagine a year like lastyear is going to hold a club like Cardiff down for too long.

Mayfield jnrs however playing 15yo's that are the size of primary school kids was a dangerous look especially against some of the competitive sides across all 3 grades.

[Fred Devils]

Difference there is the between ZL2 and ZL3 no other club in ZL3 could get a 3rd grade team so they could meet the 3-team criteria of the league. The league was also expanded, neither of these would?ve been issues for ZL1 to ZL2 as all the clubs in ZL2 had 3-team squads already and ZL1 didn?t have extra teams added to it

[Alton]

As an opposition player, I like going there to play and believe the comp needs them,I think Cardiff do everything right atm except of course for performances in first grade

[Jim]

Boo! Dont let the truth get in the way of a good storyline. Though Cardiff were off the pace lastyear in 1s they still pulled some half decent results in Reg/3s to finish mid table. Don't imagine a year like lastyear is going to hold a club like Cardiff down for too long.

Mayfield jnrs however playing 15yo's that are the size of primary school kids was a dangerous look especially against some of the competitive sides across all 3 grades.

Wait what. I say some simple facts and you say that its a cool story? I didnt go into logistics which are in any event excuses.

I now know You turds just argue because you cant win anywhere else in your lives :rof: get back to the cruisers you hard bruisers :roflz: :roflz:

[The Hacker]

Now we know who is in the comp. Any predictions?
Any player movement? It?s been quiet on that front here

[Kicktheball]

Now we know who is in the comp. Any predictions?
Any player movement? It?s been quiet on that front here

Azzuri has made some decent signings and the top 2 will be a battle between thistles and suns as it always is.

My predicted ladder for the season.

1. Dudley
2. Suns
3. Azzuri
4. Warners
5. Cardiff
6. Kotara
7. Swansea
8. Olympic
9. Mayfield
10. Uni
11. Minmi
12. Westlakes

[straightred88]

Now we know who is in the comp. Any predictions?
Any player movement? It?s been quiet on that front here

Here?s some bold predictions for you.

Suns win it - then will blame financials to get out of NL1

Dudley to miss finals

Minmi and Cardiff the relegation battle

[ZLWB]

Here?s some bold predictions for you.

Suns win it - then will blame financials to get out of NL1

Dudley to miss finals

Minmi and Cardiff the relegation battle

Suns for mine, from Dudley, Warners Bay, and Mayfield. Olympic as a dark horse. Not sure about Kotara with change of coach. They’ve got good young players coming through so will be thereabouts for a few years
Uni to struggle.
Cardiff to bounce - too good a club to perform like 2023 again. Not sure what went wrong. They just seemed….loose.

[biscuits]

Newbie here!

My predictions:

1. Suns
2. Dudley
3. W Bay
4. Kotara
5. Mayfield
6. Olympic
7. Swansea
8. Azzurri
9. Cardiff
10. Westlakes
11. Uni
12 Minmi

[Alton]

Here?s some bold predictions for you.


Suns win it - then will blame financials to get out of NL1

Dudley to miss finals

Minmi and Cardiff the relegation battle

They have to go up or be banished to the lowest league possible.

[Lofty]

Suns are looking for a trial on the weekend of 2 March. Three grades preferred and would need a venue to host as cricket is still running..
Contact head coach Vasko - 0419 224 738.

[Fred Devils]

Any word on when first draft of the draw will be out?

[straightred88]

Any word on when first draft of the draw will be out?

Week before comp starts LOL

[Taffy]

Kotara has South Cardiff in a trial this weekend (I guess that will depend on the heat), any other trial matches locked in?

[Jardelsimage]

Kotara has South Cardiff in a trial this weekend (I guess that will depend on the heat), any other trial matches locked in?

what hot weather???

[Taffy]

what hot weather???

I thought the heat wave was going through till Sunday, not now.

[The Hacker]

Kotara has South Cardiff in a trial this weekend (I guess that will depend on the heat), any other trial matches locked in?

It?s interesting that some teams are already playing trials and some teams haven?t even started training. Interesting the different philosophy?s of clubs. Some clubs will play near 30 games by the time you have the season, finals plus trials makes a long year

[Taffy]

Who doesn't love playing

[Kicktheball]

How hard is it to put a draw out?

[Jardelsimage]

How hard is it to put a draw out?

its coming they are trying to work out the stand-alone GF weekend for ZL1

[straightred88]

How hard is it to put a draw out?

Exactly - the joke continues

[Lofty]

its coming they are trying to work out the stand-alone GF weekend for ZL1

Just needs to be Saturday ZL1, Sunday ZL2 and 3.

[straightred88]

Just needs to be Saturday ZL1, Sunday ZL2 and 3.

Why does it ?

[namwob99]

Just needs to be Saturday ZL1, Sunday ZL2 and 3.
You mean to say Saturday ZL2 + 3, Sunday ZL1.

[prawnhead]

Why does it ?

Because the Suns play all their home games on a Saturday - so it suits them.

[Lofty]

Because the Suns play all their home games on a Saturday - so it suits them.

You do realise that 10/12 clubs play their home games on Saturday? Or is it just easier to say the Suns?

[prawnhead]

You do realise that 10/12 clubs play their home games on Saturday? Or is it just easier to say the Suns?

Highest division should be played on the Sunday - a no brainer really.

[Eastwest]

IMO ZL1 is better at NPL ground.

What about Saturday nite? 3rds 3pm res 5pm 1st 7pm

Id watch the Sat day game then onto the nite game.

[Jardelsimage]

IMO ZL1 is better at NPL ground.

What about Saturday nite? 3rds 3pm res 5pm 1st 7pm

Id watch the Sat day game then onto the nite game.

However it goes it has to the last game of ZL football for the year, whether that's on a Sunday after ZL2 & ZL3 have completed there GF's or the following week on a stand-alone Saturday.

Questions have been asked to which is preferred in ZL1 by the powers, the clubs will/should get to decide what happens by this vote.
Obviously not all will be pleased with the result, let's just wait and see what happens.

[Lofty]

Highest division should be played on the Sunday - a no brainer really.

Genuinely surprised with how many people prefer to have grand finals on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Saturday is just my personal opinion and preference. Not speaking on behalf of a club or anything, I just think for players and supporters that a grand final is better on Saturday so it can be properly enjoyed by all.

[Lofty]

IMO ZL1 is better at NPL ground.

What about Saturday nite? 3rds 3pm res 5pm 1st 7pm

Id watch the Sat day game then onto the nite game.

I think they're great at NPL grounds too. The issue is that no clubs in ZPL have put their hands up to host (that I'm aware of, could be wrong) the grand final in years. I don't actually know the last club to host a GF other than Suns in ZPL?

[Fred Devils]

Draws probably wont be out until ZL2 is sorted with Wallsend pulling out now

[straightred88]

Draws probably wont be out until ZL2 is sorted with Wallsend pulling out now


More excuses to hide their incompetence

[Fred Devils]

Well cant really put out a draw if the leagues aren?t sorted

[Taffy]

Shouldn't really matter, leagues are sorted, who was playing Wallsend you just change it to a Bye

[anfield]

Shouldn't really matter, leagues are sorted, who was playing Wallsend you just change it to a Bye

I have heard Muswellbrook have been offered Wallsend's spot. The association are probably waiting for their response before puttingout draws. I guess it maybe a similar decision to Wallsend's. They have only been offered Zl2. If they feel like they can't compete in that division they have 2 options.
Get pumped or go back to all age. Apparently not all teams that nominate get accepted these days, hence Muswellbrook were on a waiting list.

[mge61]

I have heard Muswellbrook have been offered Wallsend's spot. The association are probably waiting for their response before puttingout draws. I guess it maybe a similar decision to Wallsend's. They have only been offered Zl2. If they feel like they can't compete in that division they have 2 options.
Get pumped or go back to all age. Apparently not all teams that nominate get accepted these days, hence Muswellbrook were on a waiting list.

Not sure of the details so correct me if wrong. I'd heard Muswellbrook nominated or expressed interest in ZL3 to help celebrate their 100th season but were knocked back. Then they get a call on Thursday to go into ZL2 needing 3 grades and we need an answer by Monday. Knowing how hard it was years ago to maintain 3 grades up there I'm imagining the answer will be no.

[straightred88]

Not sure of the details so correct me if wrong. I'd heard Muswellbrook nominated or expressed interest in ZL3 to help celebrate their 100th season but were knocked back. Then they get a call on Thursday to go into ZL2 needing 3 grades and we need an answer by Monday. Knowing how hard it was years ago to maintain 3 grades up there I'm imagining the answer will be no.

Wow ridiculous but expected from NF

[Lofty]

Draft draw is out.

[Lofty]

Because the Suns play all their home games on a Saturday - so it suits them.


You do realise that 10/12 clubs play their home games on Saturday? Or is it just easier to say the Suns?

My apologies, 9/12 play home games on Saturday's.

[riverboy]

Not sure of the details so correct me if wrong. I'd heard Muswellbrook nominated or expressed interest in ZL3 to help celebrate their 100th season but were knocked back. Then they get a call on Thursday to go into ZL2 needing 3 grades and we need an answer by Monday. Knowing how hard it was years ago to maintain 3 grades up there I'm imagining the answer will be no.

If true, this is a disgrace. 100 year season and they can't enter Zl3.

I think it's time for a Vote of 'No Confidence ' in the association. If someone is that incompetent in the private world they get sacked

[FTBLNEW]

If true, this is a disgrace. 100 year season and they can't enter Zl3.

I think it's time for a Vote of 'No Confidence ' in the association. If someone is that incompetent in the private world they get sacked


That's how the last northern board got outsted. Now if you want to get rid of the zone organisations you need to get rid of the northern board, who were trying to streamline the running of football in the hunter and stop paying wages to CEOs who run some community football and the zone leagues.

[Taffy]

That's how the last northern board got outsted. Now if you want to get rid of the zone organisations you need to get rid of the northern board, who were trying to streamline the running of football in the hunter and stop paying wages to CEOs who run some community football and the zone leagues.

The Northern board who wanted to streamline the running of football and not have these people at NF and MF running the zone leagues has been ousted to ensure that NF, MF and the people and boards of each remain getting paid

[Jardelsimage]

If true, this is a disgrace. 100 year season and they can't enter Zl3.

I think it's time for a Vote of 'No Confidence ' in the association. If someone is that incompetent in the private world they get sacked

There were 14 or 15 clubs that nominated for ZL3 i believe.

Muswellbrook haven't been competing in grade for 100 years, they are celebrating 100 as club, juniors, seniors maybe womens also (not sure about that one]

They have dropped in and out of grade over the years, so it's really not a disgrace they are not included, it's more of a shame we don't have more clubs putting grade sides in and having 4 divisions not 3.

[straightred88]

There were 14 or 15 clubs that nominated for ZL3 i believe.

Muswellbrook haven't been competing in grade for 100 years, they are celebrating 100 as club, juniors, seniors maybe womens also (not sure about that one]

They have dropped in and out of grade over the years, so it's really not a disgrace they are not included, it's more of a shame we don't have more clubs putting grade sides in and having 4 divisions not 3.

15 clubs ? But what Cardiff didn?t want to or couldn?t nominate again ?

[Jardelsimage]

15 clubs ? But what Cardiff didn?t want to or couldn?t nominate again ?

Cardiff ZL3 who were ex Dudley Juniors and then sort of merged with Suburbs were moving on, so no they didnt nominate.

[The Hacker]

A few ZL1 v NPL1 games over the weekend. With NPL1 starting very soon you would think they should be sharper.
Any results

[Taffy]

A few ZL1 v NPL1 games over the weekend. With NPL1 starting very soon you would think they should be sharper.
Any results

Kahibah beat Croatia 4-1
South beat Uni 5-2

[Lofty]

Singo v Suns
1st 3-1
Res 0-3

Fitness levels massive difference, but that's normal for us, especially this time of year haha. Good first proper hit out though.

[straightred88]

Kahibah beat Croatia 4-1
South beat Uni 5-2

Only one of those teams are in zone 1 as per this thread

[straightred88]

A few ZL1 v NPL1 games over the weekend. With NPL1 starting very soon you would think they should be sharper.
Any results

Heard Cardiff lost 4/5-2 to Wallsend NewFM - was told Cardiff were sharp and might surprise a few this year.

[Jardelsimage]

Heard Cardiff lost 4/5-2 to Wallsend NewFM - was told Cardiff were sharp and might surprise a few this year.

4-2 down, plenty of positives for a new squad.

[straightred88]

4-2 down, plenty of positives for a new squad.

Good to hear.

[riverboy]

Croatia 5 westlakes 0
Clearly shows the best 12 sides aren't in zl1, failing to relegate a team last year probably means there are around 3 zl2 teams that would be at least better then the bottom 3 zl1 sides.
Obviously Newcastle Football have their favourites.

[Kicktheball]

Croatia 5 westlakes 0
Clearly shows the best 12 sides aren't in zl1, failing to relegate a team last year probably means there are around 3 zl2 teams that would be at least better then the bottom 3 zl1 sides.
Obviously Newcastle Football have their favourites.

I agree.

Personally Westlakes arent good enough across the board for ZL1.

There firsts are bottom half and their ressies/thirds are typically last or second last.

Make the change Newcastle football!

[ForeverRed]

Croatia 5 westlakes 0
Clearly shows the best 12 sides aren't in zl1, failing to relegate a team last year probably means there are around 3 zl2 teams that would be at least better then the bottom 3 zl1 sides.
Obviously Newcastle Football have their favourites.
Here we go, someone?s winning trophy?s in February again

[riverboy]

Here we go, someone?s winning trophy?s in February again

So you think westlakes would finish higher on a table then Croatia?? I think not.

[straightred88]

Croatia 5 westlakes 0
Clearly shows the best 12 sides aren't in zl1, failing to relegate a team last year probably means there are around 3 zl2 teams that would be at least better then the bottom 3 zl1 sides.
Obviously Newcastle Football have their favourites.

Correct

[straightred88]

Suns and Cardiff had games yesterday any scores ?
Heard Uni went 4-1 down to Jaffas zone 3

[UniMen]

Not sure where you got that information, couldn?t be further from the score

[MCG_1997]

Cardiff 2-1 Bolwarra Lorn
Suns 2-2 A central Coast side (Don't know which team it was).

[straightred88]

Not sure where you got that information, couldn?t be further from the score

Well what was the score then if I got told wrong?

[UniMen]

Well what was the score then if I got told wrong?

Uni 3-1 win in firsts
5-1 in reserves

Last week we played South Cardiff and went down 4-2

[straightred88]

Uni 3-1 win in firsts
5-1 in reserves

Last week we played South Cardiff and went down 4-2


I was close just the wrong way around haha

[Jardelsimage]

Cardiff 2-1 Bolwarra Lorn
Suns 2-2 A central Coast side (Don't know which team it was).

It was Ourimbah

[Halligooner]

H. Azzurri results thus far

21st Jan vs Cessnock

First 5-2 down
Ressies 2-1 down

3rd Feb vs West Wallsend

First 3-1 down
Ressies (vs 18s) 4-1 up

18th Feb vs North United

First 4-0 up
Ressies 3-1 up

[ZLWB]

Croatia 5 westlakes 0
Clearly shows the best 12 sides aren't in zl1, failing to relegate a team last year probably means there are around 3 zl2 teams that would be at least better then the bottom 3 zl1 sides.
Obviously Newcastle Football have their favourites.

Why would Westlakes and Cardiff, both Macquarie teams, be favourites of Newcastle Football?

[Lofty]

Some of these comments are nonsense. Westlakes certainly deserve to be in ZPL on the back of last season. Looks like it was their first trial up against a side put together of NPL level players about 5 games into their preseason. Not sure where favouritism comes into anything.
Cardiff finished bottom and remained up, so be it. If it wasn't for the crabs rebranding themselves, it would have just been a straight swap between those two. So how a trial between Westlakes and Croatia comes into this is beyond me.

Croatia also beat Lakes. Does that now mean NNSW have favouritism for Lakes and are being rude to Croatia for not putting them in NPL?
You guys seriously need to move on. I know the Croatia guys have certainly moved on and are focusing on their season ahead.

[straightred88]

Some of these comments are nonsense. Westlakes certainly deserve to be in ZPL on the back of last season. Looks like it was their first trial up against a side put together of NPL level players about 5 games into their preseason. Not sure where favouritism comes into anything.
Cardiff finished bottom and remained up, so be it. If it wasn't for the crabs rebranding themselves, it would have just been a straight swap between those two. So how a trial between Westlakes and Croatia comes into this is beyond me.

Croatia also beat Lakes. Does that now mean NNSW have favouritism for Lakes and are being rude to Croatia for not putting them in NPL?
You guys seriously need to move on. I know the Croatia guys have certainly moved on and are focusing on their season ahead.


Exactly

[Lofty]

Suns v Westlakes this weekend. Hopefully we both deserve our spots this season haha

[riverboy]

The point I was making is that it's clear zl1 doesn't contain the best 12 zone sides. Maybe by relegating 2 sides and promoting 2 would solve this issue.

[Lofty]

The point I was making is that it's clear zl1 doesn't contain the best 12 zone sides. Maybe by relegating 2 sides and promoting 2 would solve this issue.

Yeah I agree, but I think you could find it would often be like that over the years. The top one or two in ZL3 might be stronger than ZL2 bottom one or two. It's just how it is.
I don't doubt that whoever finishes top in ZL2 this year will be plying their trade in ZL1 next year and deservingly so.

Crabs might feel hard done by, but I think it's fair at least that they weren't demoted. Cardiff had a bit of luck, but that's just the way it goes sometimes.

[magician]

Newcastle Olympic res 2 Dudley 1

[ZLWB]

Newcastle Olympic res 2 Dudley 1

That’s their NPL reserves, right?

[Alton]

That’s their NPL reserves, right?

Derrr of course

[Kicktheball]

Minmi are putting our expression of interests for players this close to the season start date. I have a feeling it is going to be a long season for them. Swap them for Croatia already NF!!

[straightred88]

Minmi are putting our expression of interests for players this close to the season start date. I have a feeling it is going to be a long season for them. Swap them for Croatia already NF!!

They wouldn?t be the only ones still in need of players.

No ones going to be swapped at this late stage.

[The Hacker]

Minmi are putting our expression of interests for players this close to the season start date. I have a feeling it is going to be a long season for them. Swap them for Croatia already NF!!

Well why Croatia. Crabs finished first and we all know they just changed the badge on the shirt not their whole squad

[straightred88]

Well why Croatia. Crabs finished first and we all know they just changed the badge on the shirt not their whole squad

Not this argument again 🤦*♂️

[ForeverRed]

Minmi are putting our expression of interests for players this close to the season start date. I have a feeling it is going to be a long season for them. Swap them for Croatia already NF!!

Can somebody mute everything Croatia please, you?d think we?d got over this by now

[Alton]

Can somebody mute everything Croatia please, you?d think we?d got over this by now

Well said Red

[Lofty]

Minmi are putting our expression of interests for players this close to the season start date. I have a feeling it is going to be a long season for them. Swap them for Croatia already NF!!

Heaven forbid a club looking for players. Lay off it mate

[GO AWAY]

Well why Croatia. Crabs finished first and we all know they just changed the badge on the shirt not their whole squad

Wait ?.. by no way is this a crack, but who are the crabs ? Another club in a new shirt ?

[straightred88]

Can somebody mute everything Croatia please, you?d think we?d got over this by now

Seems some people are obsessed with them lol

[straightred88]

Wait ?.. by no way is this a crack, but who are the crabs ? Another club in a new shirt ?

Someone who isn?t in zone 1 as per this thread

[ExWhistleMan]

Just skimmed through the FAQs on promotion and relegation on the NNSWF page...

I'm particularly impressed with the post season promotion battle in lieu of finals in NL1.
However, three things I've noted; promotion is mandatory all the way through the pyramid, juniors are only mandatory for NPL and any team that finishes top 4 in NL1 that doesn't have juniors is not allowed to partake in final series.

Why I am posting this on the ZL1 thread, is this leads to the potential if that the winner if ZL1 in 2024 has no juniors affiliated juniors (i.e. the two strongest and most consistent teams for some time) they will be forced to play in a league where they aren't even allowed to participate in the post season.

While on face value I think the administrators have done a good job and no system would please everybody, I think this kinda takes the fun out of ZL1 a little. It would be hard to be motivated to win a league if you know the 'reward' would be being forced to play in a comp where you are ineligible for finals.

Curious to see how the clubs go when the inevitable happens. I can see it being a death knell (and lets be honest I am thinking of Dudley and Suns here) to teams that from the outside and as a neutral football fan, seem to have good culture (and much less sanitised and sterile than the teams above) which would be disappointing.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

[Zonal Marking]

Just skimmed through the FAQs on promotion and relegation on the NNSWF page...

I'm particularly impressed with the post season promotion battle in lieu of finals in NL1.
However, three things I've noted; promotion is mandatory all the way through the pyramid, juniors are only mandatory for NPL and any team that finishes top 4 in NL1 that doesn't have juniors is not allowed to partake in final series.

Why I am posting this on the ZL1 thread, is this leads to the potential if that the winner if ZL1 in 2024 has no juniors affiliated juniors (i.e. the two strongest and most consistent teams for some time) they will be forced to play in a league where they aren't even allowed to participate in the post season.

While on face value I think the administrators have done a good job and no system would please everybody, I think this kinda takes the fun out of ZL1 a little. It would be hard to be motivated to win a league if you know the 'reward' would be being forced to play in a comp where you are ineligible for finals.

Curious to see how the clubs go when the inevitable happens. I can see it being a death knell (and lets be honest I am thinking of Dudley and Suns here) to teams that from the outside and as a neutral football fan, seem to have good culture (and much less sanitised and sterile than the teams above) which would be disappointing.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Its such a simple solution. Promotion from Zone league 1 to NPL 2 should be optional and not mandatory. This does not deny the opportunity for any Zone league team with the ambition to go up and still allows clubs like Suns and Dudley to win the premiership and not lose half their players the following season.

Not saying it will happen but imagine we get to a stage where clubs are not wanting to win the premiership and might ease off a bit in the fixtures later in the season.

[The Magician]

Just skimmed through the FAQs on promotion and relegation on the NNSWF page...

I'm particularly impressed with the post season promotion battle in lieu of finals in NL1.
However, three things I've noted; promotion is mandatory all the way through the pyramid, juniors are only mandatory for NPL and any team that finishes top 4 in NL1 that doesn't have juniors is not allowed to partake in final series.

Why I am posting this on the ZL1 thread, is this leads to the potential if that the winner if ZL1 in 2024 has no juniors affiliated juniors (i.e. the two strongest and most consistent teams for some time) they will be forced to play in a league where they aren't even allowed to participate in the post season.

While on face value I think the administrators have done a good job and no system would please everybody, I think this kinda takes the fun out of ZL1 a little. It would be hard to be motivated to win a league if you know the 'reward' would be being forced to play in a comp where you are ineligible for finals.

Curious to see how the clubs go when the inevitable happens. I can see it being a death knell (and lets be honest I am thinking of Dudley and Suns here) to teams that from the outside and as a neutral football fan, seem to have good culture (and much less sanitised and sterile than the teams above) which would be disappointing.

Anyway, thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

More interestingly will be the fact that promoted clubs forfeit their registrations with their Zones/ Interdistrict. Therefore joining Premier Competitions under NNSWF. Since NNSWF does not allow dual registrations between zones and premier comps, the promoted clubs will be forced to register their quotas of 36 players and only these will be eligible to play in the NL1. Gone will be the days of Third Graders/ All Age players standing by. The work around to this is to have clubs with juniors in the PYLG they can call on, e.g U18s.

[ExWhistleMan]

More interestingly will be the fact that promoted clubs forfeit their registrations with their Zones/ Interdistrict. Therefore joining Premier Competitions under NNSWF. Since NNSWF does not allow dual registrations between zones and premier comps, the promoted clubs will be forced to register their quotas of 36 players and only these will be eligible to play in the NL1. Gone will be the days of Third Graders/ All Age players standing by. The work around to this is to have clubs with juniors in the PYLG they can call on, e.g U18s.

Yeah that's getting pretty full on and changing the fabric of teams/clubs.

Maybe the one jump that should be optional is the jump from ZL1 to NL1, particularly as that is where the administrators and frameworks change.

In my layperson opinion, promotion to NL1 should be only be via winning and wanting to go up. However I think clubs should have to nominate whether or not they would go up if they won the league before the season starts. This would allow both the club and competition administrators to know where things stand in real time rather waiting for a club to dillydally making the call after they've won. You'd expect there would be people in each club that want to do both so I think aligning and committing to their ambitions before the fact is a must.

[Zonal Marking]

Yeah that's getting pretty full on and changing the fabric of teams/clubs.

Maybe the one jump that should be optional is the jump from ZL1 to NL1, particularly as that is where the administrators and frameworks change.

In my layperson opinion, promotion to NL1 should be only be via winning and wanting to go up. However I think clubs should have to nominate whether or not they would go up if they won the league before the season starts. This would allow both the club and competition administrators to know where things stand in real time rather waiting for a club to dillydally making the call after they've won. You'd expect there would be people in each club that want to do both so I think aligning their committing and to their ambitions before the fact is a must.

Stop it now you are talking too much sense

[Jardelsimage]

Yeah that's getting pretty full on and changing the fabric of teams/clubs.

Maybe the one jump that should be optional is the jump from ZL1 to NL1, particularly as that is where the administrators and frameworks change.

In my layperson opinion, promotion to NL1 should be only be via winning and wanting to go up. However I think clubs should have to nominate whether or not they would go up if they won the league before the season starts. This would allow both the club and competition administrators to know where things stand in real time rather waiting for a club to dillydally making the call after they've won. You'd expect there would be people in each club that want to do both so I think aligning their committing and to their ambitions before the fact is a must.

love this, this has been the direction required for 20 years and as some have said before, this comp needs the option to go higher if aspirations are there, if some don't want to, so be it, if your club wants to rise, work hard, attract the players you need and win the comp....

[ExWhistleMan]

It does seem logical.

Irrelevant of all else, the potential of running a competition where only some of the teams are eligible for finals is a travesty. Un-Australian even!!

[straightred88]

It does seem logical.

Irrelevant of all else, the potential of running a competition where only some of the teams are eligible for finals is a travesty. Un-Australian even!!

Logical with Northern and NF doesn?t exist.

[Lofty]

I must say I am absolutely blown away to read 8 consecutive posts of the highest logic this forum has seen for some time, possibly ever.

This is very much along the lines of my personal (not club views) of the promotion/relegation situation. It's certainly not straightforward, even before ground facilities and club finances enter the chat.

I do like the idea that clubs indicate at the start of the season if they have the intention to be promoted should they finish in the top spot/top 2. I would be very curious to know which clubs currently in ZL1 do have ambitions to be in NL1 in 2025?

I must say, it would be great to see an inner city club with a large junior like Kotara, Mayfield, etc to go to that level. I feel they would be an attractive option for players simply due to their location alone.

[The Hacker]

I must say I am absolutely blown away to read 8 consecutive posts of the highest logic this forum has seen for some time, possibly ever.

This is very much along the lines of my personal (not club views) of the promotion/relegation situation. It's certainly not straightforward, even before ground facilities and club finances enter the chat.

I do like the idea that clubs indicate at the start of the season if they have the intention to be promoted should they finish in the top spot/top 2. I would be very curious to know which clubs currently in ZL1 do have ambitions to be in NL1 in 2025?

I must say, it would be great to see an inner city club with a large junior like Kotara, Mayfield, etc to go to that level. I feel they would be an attractive option for players simply due to their location alone.

Your right. Common sense is running hot.

There is a heap of inner city clubs in NPL but none in NP1 it is very unbalanced. Mayfield have so many juniors.

Are the Suns wanting to go up. Have most clubs come around to it?

[ExWhistleMan]

[QUOTE=Lofty;271844]I must say I am absolutely blown away to read 8 consecutive posts of the highest logic this forum has seen for some time, possibly ever.

Crazy what happens when a referee gets involved.......... :woo::woo:

[Zonal Marking]

[QUOTE=Lofty;271844]I must say I am absolutely blown away to read 8 consecutive posts of the highest logic this forum has seen for some time, possibly ever.

Crazy what happens when a referee gets involved.......... :woo::woo:

Don?t forget that I was the first one to mention optional promotion from Zone league 1 to NPL 2 though :wink:

[Lofty]

[QUOTE=ExWhistleMan;271846]

Don?t forget that I was the first one to mention optional promotion from Zone league 1 to NPL 2 though :wink:

Now, now, it's not a competition to see who was the most sensible first...

But yes, due to pretty much all the previous points made, it makes sense to make it optional. It doesn't rule out promotion between the grades, but some clubs just aren't set up to make that jump. There's a lot that would need to be put in place for clubs to be able to do so.

[anfield]

I think clubs should have the choice if they go up or not. This year someone really needs to be promoted to give NL1 ten clubs. So highest rank team that wants promotion goes up, simple.

In the meantime , The federation should work with clubs to make promotion as attractive as possible. If it is to keep third grade, maybe clubs could look at bringing in zl3 squad and relax the rules for players to move up an down between NL1 and Zone.

[Zonal Marking]

Who do we think would want to go up from the current division? Suns and Dudley are the two powerhouses of the comp but I get the impression they are both comfortable where they are.

Could see other big clubs like Mayfield, Kotara and Warners Bay possibly being interested though.

University used to play in the old 2nd division so it might interest them.

[The Postman]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

[straightred88]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

35k surely not - that?s ridiculous if true

[riverboy]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

Pay $35000 to a bunch of people pretending that they can run the game.

Or pay $5000 to a smaller bunch of people that clearly can't run the game.

[ExWhistleMan]

I think it?s pretty clear that no one is except clubs that have made a conscious and concerted effort to go all the way to NPL will want to go above ZL.
You don?t just need juniors to go to NPL, you need a PYL program. The costs and extra administration involved in running and maintaining PYL compared to community youth would be to big a burden to bare for community clubs that are run on an oily rag and generally off the backs of one or two passionate, committed and motivated individuals. I mean I?m sure the administrators don?t expect all clubs to want to do it, which is totally fair but why then force them to play in a competition where they aren?t eligible for finals.
The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if they are thinking long term and are happy for the existing ZL clubs to separate between clubs with ambitions and clubs without and the ones without desire to play NPL will all just go back to AA. Some clubs/squads will just be collateral damage.
Anyway time will tell after the inevitable happens. I for one suspect that the quality of AA/A is going to get a lot stronger over the coming years.

[ExWhistleMan]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

I really hope you are wrong. Forcing clubs into that is ludicrous.t

[straightred88]

I think it?s pretty clear that no one is except clubs that have made a conscious and concerted effort to go all the way to NPL will want to go above ZL.
You don?t just need juniors to go to NPL, you need a PYL program. The costs and extra administration involved in running and maintaining PYL compared to community youth would be to big a burden to bare for community clubs that are run on an oily rag and generally off the backs of one or two passionate, committed and motivated individuals. I mean I?m sure the administrators don?t expect all clubs to want to do it, which is totally fair but why then force them to play in a competition where they aren?t eligible for finals.
The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if they are thinking long term and are happy for the existing ZL clubs to separate between clubs with ambitions and clubs without and the ones without desire to play NPL will all just go back to AA. Some clubs/squads will just be collateral damage.
Anyway time will tell after the inevitable happens. I for one suspect that the quality of AA/A is going to get a lot stronger over the coming years.

Exactly their plan imo

[Eastwest]

More interestingly will be the fact that promoted clubs forfeit their registrations with their Zones/ Interdistrict. Therefore joining Premier Competitions under NNSWF. Since NNSWF does not allow dual registrations between zones and premier comps, the promoted clubs will be forced to register their quotas of 36 players and only these will be eligible to play in the NL1. Gone will be the days of Third Graders/ All Age players standing by. The work around to this is to have clubs with juniors in the PYLG they can call on, e.g U18s.

Solution to this would allow 2-4 extra players to register who don't have affiliated juniors. Maybe age limits? Signing players mid season cant work as nearly all players at that level are taken

[Eastwest]

Pay $35000 to a bunch of people pretending that they can run the game.

Or pay $5000 to a smaller bunch of people that clearly can't run the game.

This is the biggest cancer of football in NNSW.

[Eastwest]

Yeah that's getting pretty full on and changing the fabric of teams/clubs.

Maybe the one jump that should be optional is the jump from ZL1 to NL1, particularly as that is where the administrators and frameworks change.

In my layperson opinion, promotion to NL1 should be only be via winning and wanting to go up. However I think clubs should have to nominate whether or not they would go up if they won the league before the season starts. This would allow both the club and competition administrators to know where things stand in real time rather waiting for a club to dillydally making the call after they've won. You'd expect there would be people in each club that want to do both so I think aligning and committing to their ambitions before the fact is a must.

How about we still have certain clubs nominate who want to go up.
At seasons end the highest club on the table who wants up gets to meet with NNSW about the possibility of promotion, discuss finances, criteria etc and then have a 2 leg playoff with 2nd last if viable. Of course this opens the door for NSW to say no quickly but its one option.

All finals series stays as is.

[ExWhistleMan]

How about we still have certain clubs nominate who want to go up.
At seasons end the highest club on the table who wants up gets to meet with NNSW about the possibility of promotion, discuss finances, criteria etc and then have a 2 leg playoff with 2nd last if viable. Of course this opens the door for NSW to say no quickly but its one option.

All finals series stays as is.

I like that idea but I?d rather a single game at a neutral venue. Double leggers take the intensity out of it.

But that?s better than giving the team that limps to 4th in NL1 the chance to be promoted off the back to a couple of good games at the right time. That?s worse than the team that limps to 4th winning the gf and been remembered as the best team for the year.

[Goatscheese]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

You're wrong, honestly the amount of misinformation people spread about anything football related in this town is absurd, even more absurd that people believe it.

It's about $13,000, that does include some fees a zone league team has to pay anyway such as the Australia Cup Levy.

[Goatscheese]

35k surely not - that?s ridiculous if true

The only ridiculous thing about is that people believe it even NPL clubs are charged a lot less than that

[Goatscheese]

There's a lot that would need to be put in place for clubs to be able to do so.

Such as?

[Goatscheese]

Why I am posting this on the ZL1 thread, is this leads to the potential if that the winner if ZL1 in 2024 has no juniors affiliated juniors (i.e. the two strongest and most consistent teams for some time) they will be forced to play in a league where they aren't even allowed to participate in the post season.

While on face value I think the administrators have done a good job and no system would please everybody, I think this kinda takes the fun out of ZL1 a little. It would be hard to be motivated to win a league if you know the 'reward' would be being forced to play in a comp where you are ineligible for finals.

Let's be honest it's unlikely the clubs coming up are all of a sudden going to be top 4 in NL1. The same goes for current clubs in NL1, Wallsend have no youth teams and after last night's performance they could end up missing out on the playoff series.

[Goatscheese]

this does not deny the opportunity for any zone league team with the ambition to go up and still allows clubs like suns and dudley to win the premiership and remain big fish in a little pond

ftfy

[ZLWB]

Correct me if I?m wrong, but the Competition Fee to enter Zone League is around $5000 and I?ve heard that NewFM is $35,000?

I?m no accountant but I can?t imagine many ZL clubs having the ability or WANT to pay that kind of money.

No mate. The current NL1 competition regs aren?t on the website, but NPL regs are and their fees are approximately $24.5k, so it?s gonna be less than that.

[sideline88]

No mate. The current NL1 competition regs aren?t on the website, but NPL regs are and their fees are approximately $24.5k, so it?s gonna be less than that.
Yep, NL1 is just under $20k, still a big jump vs the cost of the ZPL

[FlatScreen]

[QUOTE=ExWhistleMan;271846]

Don?t forget that I was the first one to mention optional promotion from Zone league 1 to NPL 2 though :wink:

Excuse me Sir, Page 1... I said it ;)

[Zonal Marking]

[QUOTE=Zonal Marking;271848]

Excuse me Sir, Page 1... I said it ;)

Yeah you actually did to be fair haha

[Lofty]

Hasn’t been any clubs openly say they would like to be promoted should they finish top.. Are any clubs actually keen or just happy to keep quiet on that regard?
Unless mistaken, I think only Dudley and Suns have made comments on it, and both not keen on going up.

[Lofty]

I’d be interested to hear thoughts from the likes of WB, Kotara, Mayfield as I think it could end up being a good thing for those particular clubs.

[Avocadomexican]

I think outside those 5 clubs, the rest are just trying to avoid the lower part of the table let alone getting promoted.

[Soccerball98]

Anyone catch the result between Croatia and Dudley, Want to know how they can deal with a higher end team

[magician]

5 or 6 nil dudley