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View Full Version : Seriously, whats wrong with the Jets?



furns
03-01-2013, 09:29 PM
half humourous with some points but would like it to start a serious discussion on players, systems and tactics.


As title says, what is the problem? Below are the myriad of examples that are posted up, as well as some of my own contributions.

Is the problem:

GVE - previous history of poor man-management, playing favourites, sticks rigidly to a system regardless of players or situation.
Arthur Pappas - was better than Craig Deans. Did all the preseason work before leaving. Should have kept him.
Craig Deans - not as good as Arthur Pappas. Wont stand up to GVE, tells players wrong instructions before subsitutions, loves Gallaway.
Too much youth - not enough experienced on the park, "You wont win anything with kids" (right, Alan Hansen?), we are blooding too many youngsters at the same time rather than a gradual process.
433 doesnt work - how many World Cups did the Dutch win again?
433 does work - but we arent Holland. Or Barca. But at least its not 451.
Josh Mitchell - he's not Ljubes. Or Regan.
Tiago - Hes not playing/hes a liability/he is only good when water bottles are chucked at him.
Key injuries - Kanta/Jobe/etc have been missing for too long, too many players are getting short term injuries
Rotation - Stick with a starting XI for more than a week ffs Gary. And Goodwin needs to start more, and Virgili less.
Heskey - we had a system all through preseason, then the club signed a player on the eve of the comp starting that doesnt fit what Gary had been practicing for four months.
Fullbacks - when Ritter/Neville push up, no-one from central midfield drops in to provide defensive cover, leading to getting caught out of position when possession is inevitably coughed up. And to conceding more goals than everyone else except Sydney.
RyGriff - we are playing him as a number 10, when we have Ribeiro who isnt being played, and RyGriff is better as a winger or a striker.
Nathan Tinklers dwindling fortune - players are worried, it happened when Cons finances turned to shit too

Have I forgotten anything? These arent all my personal views, just paraphrasing the last couple of months of issues, but some I do think are part of the problem.
Is it a combination of all of them? Or something else entirely?

seldom
03-01-2013, 09:55 PM
sums it up nicely...straight to Jetstream ?

Vandenberg13
03-01-2013, 09:57 PM
i agree with everything

except Virgili..

he is brilliant, so much more confidence in my opinion, keep him in the 11

pv4
03-01-2013, 10:00 PM
I still don't but into Heskey screwing the system up - Gary said at least 5 times in preseason his squad needed a target man.

our big issues as I see it is we don't press as a unit, and the one bloke who isn't putting in by defending high up (which seems to be griff a lot) is letting his man be an easy option and screw our plan. the other issue is the amount of possession turnover we experience in an attacking position - the less we have the ball, the more pressure on our defense and the more we're going to concede. we seem to walk the ball into the defenses path, and gift them counter-attacks, like we're having fun doing it

380
03-01-2013, 10:12 PM
The 1st one and R Middleby are the problem

Middleby for bringing GVE back and GVE for pulling the wool over everybody's eyes telling them he was a better coach than 1st time around when clearly he is not.

seldom
03-01-2013, 10:13 PM
We start off with a plan A but when its not working we have no plan B and I'm not talkin bout just goin to 3 at the back and pushing everyone else forward

q-money
03-01-2013, 10:16 PM
lack of smoothies

la bazzle
03-01-2013, 10:24 PM
Gallaway, the moment he was even considered to come back in the squad its been down hill. Now hes actually in the team its even worse. And Deans.

Lack of Jonny Griff also an issue. Is exactly what the club needs, local lad, good engines, strong, no nonsense centreback. Player of the year at Magic, dominated the jets youth team with the same players now in the full squad. Griff in again

GazFish35
03-01-2013, 10:39 PM
No big dog in pre game.
No super Hubert at half time.

militiamon
03-01-2013, 10:49 PM
Overly negative fans?

Thomas477
03-01-2013, 11:11 PM
Possibly, but he does make good points. 433 can work, we've seen it done all over the world, especially in the aleague. But what made Roar so effective at it was while they lined up as a 4123, when they had the ball it was more a 343 with Portaloo dropping back as a CB, plus the wide backs didn't play as wingers when they had the ball in the back line. If the full backs dropped back to about 10-15 metres horizontally infront of the backs, they would be much easier to pass to and we wouldn't have Hearts first goal happen (and Victorys second) and the centrebacks wouldnt have to spend so much time on the ball. The way we play is a 4231 but when we have the ball it's 2233 which doesn't have the available passing lanes that the Roar had, plus our fullbacks are way too far from the CBs for short sharp passing.

Also what helped Roar, and what we did early on vs Sydney, was pressure their entire team from about their penalty spot. Against Melbournes we just sat back until the halfway line or so then sorta pressured them.

What I would like to see us do is keep pressure on the centrebacks throughout the game and if we can't, the fitness coach needs to look at themselves and GvE needs to consider getting a better one. I believe a system change as well would be advisable to implement what I'm suggesting. Basically rather than the 4231, go with the 4123 that was so successful at Roar. I would imagine the first IX to be:

.........................Biraz
.Neville...Chapman...Ritter....Brillante
.........................Jobe
..................Zad..........Ribs
......RyGriff........Heskey........Goodwin

Bench:
BK
Tiago/Mitchell/Regan
Pepper/Bridges
Taggart/Virgilli

Tiago/Mitchell/Regan on the bench until we get a better centrebacks or pre-Bayern Kanta returns. They will replace Brillante and Ritter to LB
Pepper/Bridges Pepper can operate has the hardman in midfield, while we can get Bridges as a back up creative player.
Taggart/Virigilli either one GvE goes with, everyone will blow up holy hell so good luck with that.

parksey
03-01-2013, 11:16 PM
lack of hobbits in our team is clearly hurting us imo

furns
03-01-2013, 11:50 PM
What I would like to see us do is keep pressure on the centrebacks throughout the game and if we can't, the fitness coach needs to look at themselves and GvE needs to consider getting a better one.We had one, FFA stole him to go to Wanderers.

hawk
04-01-2013, 12:33 AM
Biggest prob is beer price going up. Everything else seems pretty much on track down.

http://www.irunoninsulin.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/arrow-down-with-little-man1.png

the_butcher
04-01-2013, 01:03 AM
Using our visa spot players to open cafes and just generally do sfa

The Camel
04-01-2013, 04:09 AM
GVE-Pure and Simple

pv4
04-01-2013, 06:18 AM
Overly negative fans?

normally i'd say yes.

but i don't blame any & everyone for being hugely negative at our W-D-L stats of 1-1-6 as it is currently. these stats mean that in our most recent 8 games we've basically played against every team in the league (i know one or two of these were double-up opponents, and 9 would be a better number to work with), and have only beaten one team & drawn against one team. funnily enough, those teams were sydney, and heart, who coiincidentally are sitting just as pretty as us on the ladder.

we're playing pretty awful, we're not winning, all our prospects from preseason of finals/top two/etc look way out of reach, & we're barely scraping past the teams that are going to fight for the spoon with us. as negative as that sounds, it's true.

i'm usually a juice-box-half-full kinda guy, and being negative mainly for the lulz, but as our team is now:
- i don't enjoy watching us play
- i don't agree with some team selections
- i don't feel the coach is performing, and can't really see us hitting some freakish run of form
- i'm sick of the coal price being so low
- i don't agree with the club letting griff go anywhere but here
- i feel the most out of touch i ever have with the club

pv4
04-01-2013, 06:23 AM
btw let's try something crazy

-----------------biraz------------------
neville----tiago----champan----ritter
brown----jobe----zadkid-----goodwin
---------taggart----heskeytime------

get back to roots - send the boys out with a stock-standard 442 and see what happens. walk before you run & all that. "GVE GETTING BACK TO BASICS" is a genius headline if it pays off

WolfMan
04-01-2013, 08:13 AM
The 4-4-2 won't happen (unfortunately). FFA have an entire philosophy based on 4-3-3, and I am sure they have basically instructed GVE to run our Jets in this manner.

I believe it can/ will work, even though pv4's above lineup would yield more immediate results

Rocknerd
04-01-2013, 08:15 AM
Neville is not very good at anything to do with football but is picked every week, not enough Regan, Shitty pitch leading to too many minor injuries.
Goodwin and Vigili being played on the wrong side, can work with experienced players but they're losing their pace when they have to switch feet when attacking.
Why pay internationals to have a beach holiday?
GVE in general.

Brown is no good since his injury, he needs to go back to youth and rebuild his form.

I said it when we signed him, I said it in pre season, I said it when the season kicked off and I'm still saying it now. GVE OUT

pv4
04-01-2013, 08:25 AM
The 4-4-2 won't happen (unfortunately). FFA have an entire philosophy based on 4-3-3, and I am sure they have basically instructed GVE to run our Jets in this manner.

I believe it can/ will work, even though pv4's above lineup would yield more immediate results

seems odd when so many other teams can get away with it (442).

i remembered i did a screen shot back in the early days of the season, just found it:

http://i49.tinypic.com/2s01uv7.png

funny, thinking that we lined up with [a relatively dynamic] 4-4-2 in arguably our best performance of the season. i don't usually have an english-esque view on "4-4-2 is the only formation" but i really think we need to give it a go again, keep things simple rather than fill our players with mind-fxxx scenarios/roles.

imo if we had a go at it, and it worked, it'd give the likes of brown, goodwin, etc opportunity to get back in their groove and then we can get a little more complicated with formations etc.

WolfMan
04-01-2013, 08:40 AM
I agree 100% with what you're saying. The players we have at our disposal are more suited to a 4-4-2 formation and style. I think if you melded the mentality of a 4-4-2 with the shape of 4-3-3, it can work. Not only work, but be very successful.

The issue as I see it is the strict little "rules" that GVE has given our wide players especially; i.e you MUST overlap our wingers before the ball is past half-way.

The appointment of that young coastie bloke to head up the "Skills Acquisition" phase of development does nothing but further my belief that the FFA structure is being implemented across the board. It is a direct quote from the curriculum.

cobra23
04-01-2013, 08:41 AM
Bring in Dirk kuyt, Just signed him for the jets on fifa 13, turned my season around. i put him on the right...

plague
04-01-2013, 10:56 AM
Lack of Jobe, Sanchez and Vikingjet.

We were alright when those blokes were firing.

boz-monaut
04-01-2013, 11:08 AM
people who say "stop whinging and get behind your team" when they're as shithouse, unmotivated, unorganised and painful to watch as the Jets currently are

plague
04-01-2013, 12:17 PM
Seriously though I think we're missing Jobe and Griff isn't playing in his best position. Hence our middle of the park is a superhighway for opposition teams.

Grimario
04-01-2013, 12:28 PM
But we were scraping results when Jobe WAS playing, mostly on account of Birra saving our skins 300 times per game. Throwing Jobe back into the mix isn't going to magically change us in to a winning side.

MFKS
04-01-2013, 12:33 PM
Sometimes people should just take a deep breath step back and let the emotion go out of it.

Are we winning?? no
Are we playing well?? no
Are we playing poorly??no
Are we getting flogged?? no
Are we trying?? Yes
Are we lucky?? No
Are we committing errors?? yes
Are we gonna turn this around one day?? Yes

Other than that Chin Up boys and girls

FAO Boz stop whinging and get behind your team:pissup:

Grimario
04-01-2013, 12:37 PM
Are we really trying? How many games this year have we looked like we gave the remotest shit about what was going on? F3 Derby #1... and then disinterested bystanders in pretty much everything else.
If our entire gameplan is hoping Mitchell/Chapman/Tiago/Regs/Wheelhouse/Zadko can land the ball on Heskeys head from 50m for one of our wingers/fullbacks to get the ball, how are we going to turn this around?

Change your avatar btw. FFS.

Kill me.

pv4
04-01-2013, 12:42 PM
moar stats..

the other newcastle united in the world, currently in the epl, are experiencing a pretty bad run of form aswell. they are currently sitting on 7 points from a possible 36. that means that their abysmal run of form has given them 19.4% of potential points on offer - basically meaning on average for every 5 games they play they lose 4 and win 1.

for us, on 4pts from 24, we have taken 16.7% of potential points on offer - which puts us at 1 win in every 6 played. so statistically, every 6 games we watch of the jerks they're losing 5 and winning 1. what a shit season.

/ron smith

q-money
04-01-2013, 12:43 PM
they're shit, for a team of so called newy boys they couldn't give a flying **** about newy

at least bridges headbutted hutcho last year

pv4
04-01-2013, 12:46 PM
btw whatever that mexican clubs name is, they sacked cryuff & then sacked john van't schip along with him.

gve out, van't schip in - at least jvs lived up to his philosophies when coaching heart.

plague
04-01-2013, 01:36 PM
But we were scraping results when Jobe WAS playing, mostly on account of Birra saving our skins 300 times per game. Throwing Jobe back into the mix isn't going to magically change us in to a winning side.

I thought Jobe was one of our consistently best players before he got hurt. Adding him back in would make us better not fix everything.
It's a start though.

cobra23
04-01-2013, 01:47 PM
I thought Jobe was one of our consistently best players before he got hurt. Adding him back in would make us better not fix everything.
It's a start though.

Yeah then jobe might have to shit games and everyone will be saying, drop him jobe out.

Superdylan
04-01-2013, 02:43 PM
We need an experienced defender. God would be good to have someone like jade north back, stopping a ball going in with his hands, Adelaide missing the penalty then Nicky Carle running the length of the field, ah they were the days.

seldom
04-01-2013, 05:25 PM
need more Ljubes

Thomas477
04-01-2013, 06:41 PM
Agree with MFKS, at least we still have a team. I'd much rather see them lose each week as opposed to not seeing them play each week.

I'm sure NQ and the 3 Gold Coast fans would much rather see our team play each week then none at all.

GazFish35
04-01-2013, 09:12 PM
Agree with MFKS, at least we still have a team. I'd much rather see them lose each week as opposed to not seeing them play each week.

I'm sure NQ and the 3 Gold Coast fans would much rather see our team play each week then none at all.

Excellent base level of expectation.
Never disappointed.

boz-monaut
04-01-2013, 09:33 PM
we should be happy that 11k people have paid to see some incompetent egotist manage a bunch of kids who just aren't up to it every week

I'm actually beginning to question whether this is better than not having a team, having something you believe in disappoint you week in, week out through lazyness, incompetence and arrogance is taking it's toll on me

stopper2
05-01-2013, 07:44 AM
We must have the worst record for "failed" imports in the history of the HAL and most of them were signed by GVE....Hakannson, Drovandi, Denni, Zura, De Groot (he was Branko's). These are just a few off the top of my head which all lasted 1 season or less and I'm afraid Ribeiro will join that group, not because he is no good but because like a few of the others mentioned he has just not had the opportunities.
Milton also was only here for 1 season and had a big impact but wasn't re-signed by GVE.

pv4
05-01-2013, 09:00 AM
De Groot (he was Branko's).

I believe this is incorrect. iirc gve had de groot for the acl.

I actually love some of the imports we have right now though - huge fan of tiago, ritter & heskey

Thomas477
05-01-2013, 09:49 AM
We must have the worst record for "failed" imports in the history of the HAL and most of them were signed by GVE....Hakannson, Drovandi, Denni, Zura, De Groot (he was Branko's). These are just a few off the top of my head which all lasted 1 season or less and I'm afraid Ribeiro will join that group, not because he is no good but because like a few of the others mentioned he has just not had the opportunities.
Milton also was only here for 1 season and had a big impact but wasn't re-signed by GVE.

Just because a player lasted 1 season with us, doesn't mean they were failures. Corbo was good, 1 season, Denni played almost every game for us in s3, 1 year, Vigs was brilliant, less than 1 year, Byun was solid last year as well. I don't get this whole we've had shocking luck with imports. The fact is we've had some brilliant imports, and just some equally shitty as well.

As Milton, maybe he didn't want to stay in Australia? After us, he returned to play for Cali in the Colombian league. Just because a player doesn't want to stay, doesn't means its automatically the managers fault.

lquiquer
05-01-2013, 12:01 PM
I believe this is incorrect. iirc gve had de groot for the acl.

I actually love some of the imports we have right now though - huge fan of tiago, ritter & heskey

Unfortunatly pv4 i got bad news for you: There is more chance of snow falling in Newcastle than seeing Tiago play in a jets shirt under GVE

380
05-01-2013, 12:11 PM
Unfortunatly pv4 i got bad news for you: There is more chance of snow falling in Newcastle than seeing Tiago play in a jets shirt under GVE


I reckon you are right lquiquer, looking at the pic in the Herald today.

Looked all to similar to the Regan Pics.

Over to the GVE out thread now to vent.

The Dunster
05-01-2013, 12:39 PM
As Milton, maybe he didn't want to stay in Australia? After us, he returned to play for Cali in the Colombian league. Just because a player doesn't want to stay, doesn't means its automatically the managers fault.

GVE only wanted Milton as a bench player and as such offered him less than 100k a season.He went on to play in the MLS for several clubs and scored plenty of goals.

So another big **** up by the great GVE.

stopper2
05-01-2013, 01:38 PM
Just because a player lasted 1 season with us, doesn't mean they were failures. Corbo was good, 1 season, Denni played almost every game for us in s3, 1 year, Vigs was brilliant, less than 1 year, Byun was solid last year as well. I don't get this whole we've had shocking luck with imports. The fact is we've had some brilliant imports, and just some equally shitty as well.

As Milton, maybe he didn't want to stay in Australia? After us, he returned to play for Cali in the Colombian league. Just because a player doesn't want to stay, doesn't means its automatically the managers fault.

I too thought that Denni was good value and Zura was just hitting his straps, then he was released. Vigs too was just settling into the team and got injured. The point I'm making is that as a club we more then probably any club either pick the wrong import or just don't seem to give them enough time to settle in and consquently after 1 season (or even less) are not re-signed or released. It's not about "shocking luck", it's more about being able to identify the type of player to suit your team and just plain patience. GVE seems to lack both of these qualities.

westjet
05-01-2013, 01:54 PM
I too thought that Denni was good value and Zura was just hitting his straps, then he was released. Vigs too was just settling into the team and got injured. The point I'm making is that as a club we more then probably any club either pick the wrong import or just don't seem to give them enough time to settle in and consquently after 1 season (or even less) are not re-signed or released. It's not about "shocking luck", it's more about being able to identify the type of player to suit your team and just plain patience. GVE seems to lack both of these qualities.

Don't worry next year our only import will be Heskey with the other 4 spots taken up by more AIS kids - problem solved.

380
05-01-2013, 03:07 PM
Don't worry next year our only import will be Heskey with the other 4 spots taken up by more AIS kids - problem solved.

Would there be 4 left ?. Thought we had them all.

Thomas477
05-01-2013, 08:12 PM
What's wrong with the Jets? Appears to be Tiago, Mitchell and Brown at he moment.

seldom
05-01-2013, 08:58 PM
Brown :arse: :arse: :arse:

Tommyjet
05-01-2013, 09:53 PM
Seriously I know brown wasn't great again but for those of us who don't have negative blinkers on when it comes to brown, he wasn't that bad, and certainly showed much improvement from first few games with us.
I myself had the same negative blinkers on over zadkovich until recently(I hated his terrible passing, positioning and ability to shit himself and turn it over in the middle of the park) but I never once yelled form the stands at him or Gary to get him off and certainly didn't jeer and boo him off like some of the pathetic ****s in the western stand tonight. Obviously not true supporters

MFKS
05-01-2013, 10:01 PM
Right Tommyjet

Brown was a lot better today than recent outings. Still not good enough in my opinion at present but he was definitely better.

If he had been rating a 2/3 out of 10 recently he was at least a 5/10 today. Still not up to scratch but heading in the right direction

Tommyjet
05-01-2013, 10:30 PM
Yeah I can accept he wasnt great, but the obviously uneducated pricks I sit near in bay 56 in particular booed and jeered him when he came of which is pathetic at best and its this bandwagon is continuously gaining pace against the poor kid. These people are that narrow minded a player like bridges could come on lose the ball 20 times in a minute and miss an open net and they'd still cheer for the useless prick.
It's at the point that even if brown scored and had a 8 or 9/10 game it wouldn't be good enough for the blinkered wankers, they'd still be yelling out for his head at half time

GazFish35
05-01-2013, 10:43 PM
Brown must be the new bk.

Pico
05-01-2013, 10:45 PM
Brown must be the new bk.

I thought that was Chilli?

MFKS
05-01-2013, 10:46 PM
Brown must be the new bk.


No

Brown will be revered in the manner of Marko Jesic in about 3 years time if he keeps heading the way he has been going.

namwob99
05-01-2013, 10:48 PM
Mitchell? Gallaway?

MFKS
05-01-2013, 10:53 PM
Mitchell? Gallaway?

So lets get this right

Browns the new Jesic
Mitchells the new Galloway
Chilli is the new BK
Tiago is the new Kasey Wehrman

Think thats now sorted

GazFish35
05-01-2013, 11:02 PM
And GVE is the same old GVE.


Who is the new Kaz?

sammydog
05-01-2013, 11:04 PM
And GVE is the same old GVE.


Who is the new Kaz?

Ribeiro

seldom
05-01-2013, 11:14 PM
Seriously I know brown wasn't great again but for those of us who don't have negative blinkers on when it comes to brown, he wasn't that bad, and certainly showed much improvement from first few games with us.
I myself had the same negative blinkers on over zadkovich until recently(I hated his terrible passing, positioning and ability to shit himself and turn it over in the middle of the park) but I never once yelled form the stands at him or Gary to get him off and certainly didn't jeer and boo him off like some of the pathetic ****s in the western stand tonight. Obviously not true supporters

Don't know about negative blinkers on I truly thought he was very average again today but he is a good player and good players eventually bounce back. I truly thought Gallaway had no chance of making it in the HAL but he's been going OK since being promoted.Do agree with you regarding the booing,many around me were doing likewise...embarrassing really...the kid is trying

furns
06-01-2013, 12:03 AM
Brown should have been on bench, Ribiero should have started instead.

Muswellbrookian
06-01-2013, 02:43 AM
Just saw the highlights. F*ck me, there were some poor attempts at finishing in there (Brown and Taggart in particular). No conviction whatsoever.

Great that we finally got a clean sheet, but when are we finally going to sign a consistent goalscorer? Or better yet, retain the ones we already have rather than let them go to Wello and replace them with ineffectual infants?

pv4
06-01-2013, 08:42 AM
am yet to watch the game, but my first thought:

sup militia, clean sheet with biraz :cool:
still winless while virgilli starts
pv4 = prediction god :cool:

also have thought of some new stats - it seems like we're improving massively:

from the last 3 points on offer we have gained 1 point. that's a 33.3% point return rate. this is basically double our previous record of 16.something% from our 4/24 stats. this is great news. gve is a god. can we offer him another new contract, tying him down for another 4 years

Vandenberg13
06-01-2013, 08:46 AM
am yet to watch the game, but my first thought:

sup militia, clean sheet with biraz :cool:
still winless while virgilli starts
pv4 = prediction god :cool:

also have thought of some new stats - it seems like we're improving massively:

from the last 3 points on offer we have gained 1 point. that's a 33.3% point return rate. this is basically double our previous record of 16.something% from our 4/24 stats. this is great news. gve is a god. can we offer him another new contract, tying him down for another 4 years

please correct me if im wrong

but virgili started against Sydney in round 12, and we won that game?

plz respond

Tommyjet
06-01-2013, 08:48 AM
Brown should have been on bench, Ribiero should have started instead.

Totally agree, but ofcourse brown is more of an athlete than ribiero which is more important to egmond so doubt we will see much more of ribiero to be honest

pv4
06-01-2013, 09:40 AM
please correct me if im wrong

but virgili started against Sydney in round 12, and we won that game?

plz respond

firstly, it was v the worst team in the comp

secondly, my prediction was made after that game, in which I said "we won't win another game that virgilli starts"

cheers

militiamon
06-01-2013, 10:50 AM
am yet to watch the game, but my first thought:

sup militia, clean sheet with biraz :cool:
still winless while virgilli starts
pv4 = prediction god :cool:

It was kind of a joke hey. It was more to point out how stupid your prediction was, especially given that we have already won 3 out of our 5 wins with Virgili starting, and 2 out of our 2 draws.