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RANGER09
04-03-2013, 09:04 PM
After reading about Merewether playing out of Jesmond park it got me wondering how many clubs have moved around over the years. Where did they start and where are they now and what were the reasons for the move?
I remember playing Merewether at Adamstown No3 and similar with the Suns who now play over the bridge at Carrington.
At the Terrace we started at Boomerang park and moved to King park thanks to the council upgrading the facilities
Medowie started at Boyd oval then moved to Yulong oval for similar reasons.
See what memories you can stir up in the ol grey matter between the ears and post a reply!

Premy
04-03-2013, 09:48 PM
After reading about Merewether playing out of Jesmond park it got me wondering how many clubs have moved around over the years. Where did they start and where are they now and what were the reasons for the move?
I remember playing Merewether at Adamstown No3 and similar with the Suns who now play over the bridge at Carrington.
At the Terrace we started at Boomerang park and moved to King park thanks to the council upgrading the facilities
Medowie started at Boyd oval then moved to Yulong oval for similar reasons.
See what memories you can stir up in the ol grey matter between the ears and post a reply!

It was well before my time but my father tells me of the many great memories that Cardiff had playing behind the golf range most of the memories are from crazy nights they had in the licensed club they had there though. I play for suburbs now and I'm lead to believe that they played there for a few years too but I would need confirmation from someone with more knowledge than me about it

ForeverRed
05-03-2013, 07:50 AM
Valentine phoenix are the best gypsies, this group originated out of Tomago eagles, playing out of Tomago oval then they moved to Stewart and lloyds, (club phoenix) , mayfield park, no 1 sports ground & Cahill oval, after all these ground changes, and I have probably missed a couple, you would think they would get it right, not

Zico
05-03-2013, 08:03 AM
Valentine phoenix are the best gypsies, this group originated out of Tomago eagles, playing out of Tomago oval then they moved to Stewart and lloyds, (club phoenix) , mayfield park, no 1 sports ground & Cahill oval, after all these ground changes, and I have probably missed a couple, you would think they would get it right, not
I bet Belswans will be next on their list.

cobra23
05-03-2013, 08:13 AM
I bet Belswans will be next on their list.

+ 1

demon
05-03-2013, 12:06 PM
I think the winner for not moving here would be West Wallsend by a mile, what is it now 122/123 years at the same ground?

The only club I can think might possibly be close would be Adamstown but do not know their history very well myself.

Minmi, Wallsend, Rosebuds and Westy are all over the 120 year mark but I wouldn't think Minmi are still in their original location knowing how much landfill is on one side of that field.

Wallsend... well less said about recent years since selling Crystal Palace and those investments the better forcing them around a few locations.

Rosebuds might be a chance but I would not think many clubs anywhere in Aus could claim the same field for over 120 consecutive years.


As far as moving, Magic (if you include their Macedonia days) had played at a few grounds over their history too.

Zico
05-03-2013, 01:33 PM
I think the winner for not moving here would be West Wallsend by a mile, what is it now 122/123 years at the same ground?

The only club I can think might possibly be close would be Adamstown but do not know their history very well myself.

Minmi, Wallsend, Rosebuds and Westy are all over the 120 year mark but I wouldn't think Minmi are still in their original location knowing how much landfill is on one side of that field.

Wallsend... well less said about recent years since selling Crystal Palace and those investments the better forcing them around a few locations.

Rosebuds might be a chance but I would not think many clubs anywhere in Aus could claim the same field for over 120 consecutive years.


As far as moving, Magic (if you include their Macedonia days) had played at a few grounds over their history too.

I also think it's a deadset shame about Wallsend as Crystal Palace was a wonderfull ground, from what I know Minmi are still at the same ground and it's a huge thing for Westy to still be there after so long.

Weston have only had 2 grounds in almost 110 years and at the current one now for almost 60 years. Magic once played out of Jaffa's ground aswell.

seldom
05-03-2013, 01:44 PM
Magic once played out of Jaffa's ground aswell.

i...and adamstown

ForeverRed
05-03-2013, 01:45 PM
It was never jaffas ground originally, it was new lambton eagles home ground first until the jaffas had them removed, still a sore point with many old golden eagles

seldom
05-03-2013, 01:48 PM
My old man loved when we played either cardiff or wallsend...clubs overlooking the ground

Zico
05-03-2013, 02:05 PM
My old man loved when we played either cardiff or wallsend...clubs overlooking the ground
The surface at the Cardiff ground was very poor in the later years but it was handy to have the club on the grounds.

demon
05-03-2013, 02:39 PM
It was well before my time but my father tells me of the many great memories that Cardiff had playing behind the golf range most of the memories are from crazy nights they had in the licensed club they had there though. I play for suburbs now and I'm lead to believe that they played there for a few years too but I would need confirmation from someone with more knowledge than me about it


They did indeed, they owned their own licensed club also overlooking the western side of the field. It was retangular and fenced but outside the fences on all sides the ground was built up so cars parked ouraound the Northern (tennis court) Southern (golf range) and eastern sides had a great view. The estern side was dominated by the licensed club which held quite a few hundred operated seven days/nights a week, had a large sealed car park.

At its peak it was regarded as the best playing surface in the then 1st Division and they were one of the top clubs in the area while the club was profitable. The demise of the football club was slightly ahead of the demise of the licensed club but mutual in their death unfortuantely.

The ground saw off and on use over the years after but was never back to its best in terms of the surface.

demon
05-03-2013, 02:46 PM
What about "lost" fields........ I can remember there used to be three football fields on the parkland behind broadmeadow maccas back in my school days. Not sure any actual club was ever attached to them thou but got used by the school sports competitions quite a bit.

Waratah West (club ended a few decades ago) used to have a field also which I think a church team have revived and are using.

380
05-03-2013, 03:16 PM
Beaton Park, Wollongong Olympic.

Buddha
05-03-2013, 04:36 PM
do miss the days of playing around the corner at Boomerang Park, next to the golf course.

Ranger you forgot the old Masonite field there! i swear half my games that were supposed to be at boomerang got moved there!

boz-monaut
05-03-2013, 05:01 PM
What about "lost" fields........ I can remember there used to be three football fields on the parkland behind broadmeadow maccas back in my school days. Not sure any actual club was ever attached to them thou but got used by the school sports competitions quite a bit.I've played cricket, hockey and football there

it's weird to see the state of them these days, given no other sport uses them it'd be worth putting some goals on there for use in the off season

as for my club, we're still at our first home ground at #4 National Park, along with our two other grounds and possibly a third this season - we did use Islington Park for a while for some reason but thankfully that stopped

RANGER09
05-03-2013, 06:10 PM
do miss the days of playing around the corner at Boomerang Park, next to the golf course.

Ranger you forgot the old Masonite field there! i swear half my games that were supposed to be at boomerang got moved there!

True, Mosonite field now a car park for the new Sandvik site and also Medowie using Tomago oval for a few years.
Used to enjoy playing at salamander oval before the Bay moved to Tomaree, I think it has a cricket pitch smack in the middle now.

Good to see some history being raised here, keep it coming!

Nelson Bay Road
05-03-2013, 09:05 PM
Cricket pitch went a few years ago from salamander oval... Prob the best surface in the hunter and its only our training ground... It's unfortunate the amenities aren't up to scratch

howardyou
05-03-2013, 10:28 PM
It was never jaffas ground originally, it was new lambton eagles home ground first until the jaffas had them removed, still a sore point with many old golden eagles

Yeah. My old man still blows up about this. Once i get my son into the Eagles shirt, it ill be three generations into the blue and white. It would be nice to have a solid home ground without being kicked around the area (or at least threatened to be) - considering the age of the club.

front2
05-03-2013, 11:15 PM
I've played cricket, hockey and football there

it's weird to see the state of them these days, given no other sport uses them it'd be worth putting some goals on there for use in the off season

as for my club, we're still at our first home ground at #4 National Park, along with our two other grounds and possibly a third this season - we did use Islington Park for a while for some reason but thankfully that stopped

You're not over the hill yet Boz. The original Cooks Hill played out of the park at Tighes Hill TAFE if I am correct. Made it into the old 2nd division for one season as I am told. The reformed Cooks Hill o35s this year have one certain player who played for the old Cooks Hill along with his 'ol' man.

punter
05-03-2013, 11:22 PM
You're not over the hill yet Boz. The original Cooks Hill played out of the park at Tighes Hill TAFE if I am correct. Made it into the old 2nd division for one season as I am told. The reformed Cooks Hill o35s this year have one certain player who played for the old Cooks Hill along with his 'ol' man.

does any one know if it was cooks hill who went out to valentine and merged with them for a short time?
That leads me to another question, How many clubs has Valentine merged with over the years?
Phoenix, Belmont, Tingira, soon it will be Belswans, Is there any more?

punter
05-03-2013, 11:24 PM
It was well before my time but my father tells me of the many great memories that Cardiff had playing behind the golf range most of the memories are from crazy nights they had in the licensed club they had there though. I play for suburbs now and I'm lead to believe that they played there for a few years too but I would need confirmation from someone with more knowledge than me about it
Didnt cardiff start at number 1 the ground with the cricket pitch accross from cardiff toyota

Retro Jet
05-03-2013, 11:55 PM
Valentine phoenix are the best gypsies, this group originated out of Tomago eagles, playing out of Tomago oval then they moved to Stewart and lloyds, (club phoenix) , mayfield park, no 1 sports ground & Cahill oval, after all these ground changes, and I have probably missed a couple, you would think they would get it right, not

And before No.1 SG, Athfield (N'cle Athletics Field) for a season (or 2?) I believe?


does any one know if it was cooks hill who went out to valentine and merged with them for a short time?
That leads me to another question, How many clubs has Valentine merged with over the years?
Phoenix, Belmont, Tingira, soon it will be Belswans, Is there any more?

Cooks Hill with Phil Brown went out to Valentine and formed Valentine Cookers in 1992.
Good info on VP's website History page here:- http://www.vefc.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=108&Itemid=122
The info shows they ceased playing in 1996. A new unrelated Cookers emerged at Nat Pk No.4 in 1998.

You'll need a Valentine person to answer the 2nd part of your question punter.

pastor399
06-03-2013, 10:42 AM
Cricket pitch went a few years ago from salamander oval... Prob the best surface in the hunter and its only our training ground... It's unfortunate the amenities aren't up to scratch

University might fight you over that comment, Ray Watt has consitantly been one of the best grounds in the Newcastle/Hunter region over the best part of a decade, and it just seems to imporve every year......... i might be slightly biased but it would be hard to tofind to many grounds that rivals the size and surface quality in the region.


You're not over the hill yet Boz. The original Cooks Hill played out of the park at Tighes Hill TAFE if I am correct. Made it into the old 2nd division for one season as I am told. The reformed Cooks Hill o35s this year have one certain player who played for the old Cooks Hill along with his 'ol' man.

University also played there first games at Tighes Hill TAFE, when the university was there, back in the 60's. I believe it was in the mid 90's that Ray Watt became the home ground, and it took a few years again before the ground started to evolve into the flat surface it is today, at first it was just a paddock and was worse than Athletics Track during a june storm from what ive heard. :trolls:

Youaskedforit
06-03-2013, 10:58 AM
Toronto Awaba first ground was actually at AWABA apparently, then they moved briefly to a ground in Toronto West on the western side of the cemetary , ( i think its still a paddock with remnants of a toilet block ) , moved to Toronto Sportsground ( Lyall Peacock ) in the mid fifties i think.

Buddha
06-03-2013, 04:02 PM
University might fight you over that comment, Ray Watt has consitantly been one of the best grounds in the Newcastle/Hunter region over the best part of a decade, and it just seems to imporve every year......... i might be slightly biased but it would be hard to tofind to many grounds that rivals the size and surface quality in the region.



University also played there first games at Tighes Hill TAFE, when the university was there, back in the 60's. I believe it was in the mid 90's that Ray Watt became the home ground, and it took a few years again before the ground started to evolve into the flat surface it is today, at first it was just a paddock and was worse than Athletics Track during a june storm from what ive heard. :trolls:
I'd put my hand up to say King Park is one of the best, we've held numerous junior grand finals there and had great comments about the condition, only thing bad about it is the wind that usually gets going haha

ForeverRed
06-03-2013, 04:19 PM
Didnt cardiff start at number 1 the ground with the cricket pitch accross from cardiff toyota

Sure did, I was a ball boy in them days, my dad did the gate, they moved to lymington park in 1974, named after the old coal mine it was built on, mike trebilcock was the player coach then if I remember rightly

demon
07-03-2013, 11:58 AM
Sure did, I was a ball boy in them days, my dad did the gate, they moved to lymington park in 1974, named after the old coal mine it was built on, mike trebilcock was the player coach then if I remember rightly

Actually I have a faint recollection Wallsend used Lymington also in 2001/2001.

Part of the wandering minstral routine of the last decade or so.... Breakers, Lymington, Wallsend No 1 (how that was ever allowed I can't uinderstand but that was a decade ago I guess) then the revamped Breakers as The Gardens Dog track, then the Glendale Athletcis track and now back at the Dog Track.

What about the old Croatia? Where they anywhere prior to over at Wickham? I honestly can not remember but they surely must have been.

Jardelsimage
05-04-2013, 07:53 PM
Actually I have a faint recollection Wallsend used Lymington also in 2001/2001.

Part of the wandering minstral routine of the last decade or so.... Breakers, Lymington, Wallsend No 1 (how that was ever allowed I can't uinderstand but that was a decade ago I guess) then the revamped Breakers as The Gardens Dog track, then the Glendale Athletcis track and now back at the Dog Track.

What about the old Croatia? Where they anywhere prior to over at Wickham? I honestly can not remember but they surely must have been.

croatia started at mayfield Park??(where mayfield ZPL play) if i remember correctly and yes Wallsend did use Lymington

The Ghost
05-04-2013, 10:05 PM
I remember playing Croatia at Mayfield Park many years ago...and being well beaten via a Paul Queenan
hat trick

demon
08-04-2013, 04:56 PM
I am told the West Wallsend v Rosebubds game later this year is a bit of an event.

Being played on the same ground as one of the first competition games in the region and between those two same clubs over 120 years ago. A pity Northern aren't having replica shirts for players and referees produced for the first grade game at that first match.

But that simple fact is pretty impressive for the code in this region. Over 120 years and you still have the same two clubs exisiting and playing on the same field.

Lets hope it gets the media attention it deserves so we can remind the others what sport the area is truely known for.

GazFish35
08-04-2013, 06:09 PM
I am told the West Wallsend v Rosebubds game later this year is a bit of an event.

Being played on the same ground as one of the first competition games in the region and between those two same clubs over 120 years ago. A pity Northern aren't having replica shirts for players and referees produced for the first grade game at that first match.

But that simple fact is pretty impressive for the code in this region. Over 120 years and you still have the same two clubs exisiting and playing on the same field.

Lets hope it gets the media attention it deserves so we can remind the others what sport the area is truely known for.

Got any links to any other info?

Beast
08-04-2013, 07:14 PM
Wouldn't West Wallsend of been called Young Wallsend back then.

CStein
08-04-2013, 09:24 PM
I am told the West Wallsend v Rosebubds game later this year is a bit of an event.

Being played on the same ground as one of the first competition games in the region and between those two same clubs over 120 years ago. A pity Northern aren't having replica shirts for players and referees produced for the first grade game at that first match.

But that simple fact is pretty impressive for the code in this region. Over 120 years and you still have the same two clubs exisiting and playing on the same field.

Lets hope it gets the media attention it deserves so we can remind the others what sport the area is truely known for.

Im sure if you paid Northern will produce the replica kits for you. Maybe there should be a "heritage" round?

demon
09-04-2013, 09:31 AM
Wouldn't West Wallsend of been called Young Wallsend back then.

That could be true Beast, I think the point the historians were making was they were actually still the same two club entities. So both may have had a name change but the clubs never folded and new ones started up or took over another club etc.

Just that you could actually trace both clubs back to that first game as the actual same clubs. The missed previous anniversary dates such as 100, 100 120 years etc simply because in those years they were in different divisions.

Be nice if the clubs could afford it but I don't think many New Fm clubs have enough cash to purchase a one off strip out of their own cash.

GazFish35
09-04-2013, 09:47 AM
are NNSW doing anything to promote this?
its really is massive news

Wanderers and the FFA fap off about naming the club after a team from 1880, here we have two clubs that still exist!

Beast
09-04-2013, 09:49 AM
Only reason I mentioned Young Wallsend was the other week I found some of my grandfathers trophies from Young Wallsend for the Presidents and Referees cup in 1937.

hawk
18-06-2013, 12:12 PM
Only reason I mentioned Young Wallsend was the other week I found some of my grandfathers trophies from Young Wallsend for the Presidents and Referees cup in 1937.

young wallsend was edgeworth.

hawk
18-06-2013, 12:28 PM
wallsend...

Without a home ground Wallsend moved to the International Sports Centre at Broadmeadow and continued to train at the Crystal Palace. On 12th May 1987, the last training session was held at Crystal Palace. Training was then transferred to Jesmond Park. This was due to work to demolish the clubhouse, grandstand and change rooms, commencing in that year.

In 1988, Wallsend’s home ground was moved part way through the season from the ISC to Adamstown Oval. In 1989, the club finished on the bottom of the table and was relegated to the lower division when Northern NSW Football promoted 3 teams from the lower division. This devastated the club and saw many first grade players leave for other clubs in 1990.

During 1990, Wallsend played their home games at Austral Park. The money from the sale of Crystal Palace was used to help develop the park and to establish the Newcastle Breakers in the National Soccer League.
Construction of the Breakers Stadium started in 1991, and Wallsend Football Club were like gypsies in this year, playing at four different home grounds throughout the year. Despite this, Wallsend managed to finish second in the competition.

In 1994, everything seemed to come together with the appointment of Richard Hartley as coach, Wallsend attracted a number of strong players, with the home ground at the new Breakers Stadium and remained undefeated throughout the season, culminating in a Grand Final win. Ultimately this enabled the club to be promoted back to the premier division in 1995.

Wallsend continued to play in the higher division for the next six years. In 2000, Wallsend was forced to relocate to Lymmington Park at Cardiff due to increased rental imposed by the Breakers consortium. As a result, Wallsend lost many of its senior players and was forced to field a young side. The final result was that Wallsend was relegated to the lower division in 2001.

The start of 2001 looked grim. The club held two extraordinary meetings to determine whether the club would be disbanded to lack of funds and people prepared to run the club. The ground at Lymington was not available and Wallsend were once again moved but to more familiar territory in Wallsend Park, although this was the first time since 1921 that Wallsend played at an unfenced ground.

In 2002, Wallsend started to gather momentum with the home ground being back at Breakers Stadium, now renamed as The Gardens.
http://wallsendfc.tumblr.com/history/the-trying-times-1969-now

sancho_theswan
18-06-2013, 10:53 PM
Belmont Swansea United S.C.......... formerly Blacksmiths Rangers.
Pretty sure they have occupied the same location at "Beautiful Blacksmiths Oval" since 1935. That's 78 years and still going strong.
I really feel as sad as SWAN can get when I read stuff like the Wallsend story. I guess "it comes home to roost" the old saying by a well known soccer stalwart of the region, and that is " that you can't be on top all the time"!

seldom
18-06-2013, 11:51 PM
Belmont Swansea United S.C.......... formerly Blacksmiths Rangers.
Pretty sure they have occupied the same location at "Beautiful Blacksmiths Oval" since 1935. That's 78 years and still going strong.
I really feel as sad as SWAN can get when I read stuff like the Wallsend story. I guess "it comes home to roost" the old saying by a well known soccer stalwart of the region, and that is " that you can't be on top all the time"!

Jeez 1935...must be nearly due for a new fence swancho

Zico
19-06-2013, 10:24 AM
Jeez 1935...must be nearly due for a new fence swancho
That new fence will be part of the deal with Valentine :yay:

sharky21
19-06-2013, 10:31 AM
Tenambit Sharks has played all its 30+ years at Beryl Humble ( Shark Park) And has been hosting our zone league ( formerly ID) matches since we arrived in the comp in 2000

sutho
20-06-2013, 08:02 PM
WWB Homestead Ground

Drunken ranger
25-07-2013, 09:07 PM
Terrace ogrinally played at the showground ranger and over time have shuffled between boomerang and king park

sutho
25-07-2013, 09:15 PM
weston-Homestead Ground

RANGER09
25-07-2013, 09:18 PM
Terrace ogrinally played at the showground ranger and over time have shuffled between boomerang and king park

Yeah so I have been told, maybe we could organise a game when the car park is empt for the marketplace :wacko:

Youaskedforit
26-07-2013, 08:28 AM
Im sure TAFC will be able to tell us Toronto Awaba"s ground history, as he is Toronto Awaba, all without looking up the history books ...

Drunken ranger
26-07-2013, 09:24 AM
Nah ranger I think we should move back to boomerang and develop up there and get a atmosphere back to our games

Creepin10
17-07-2015, 03:07 PM
Bit of an old thread this one but i was wondering what is happening with the old lymington park behind the driving range at cardiff does it get used at all? Who owns it now adays etc would be a great ground if done up a little but in my opinion if anyone can answer me would be great cheers lads

NUGUNS
17-07-2015, 03:11 PM
Bit of an old thread this one but i was wondering what is happening with the old lymington park behind the driving range at cardiff does it get used at all? Who owns it now adays etc would be a great ground if done up a little but in my opinion if anyone can answer me would be great cheers lads

Last I heard it was privately owned.

I've had a few of the Cardiff old boys tell many stories of how good it was back in the day when the club was there.

RANGER09
19-07-2015, 04:06 PM
Does anyone use the one off Hillsborough rd opposite the dog show area anymore? we played Cardiff a few times there

hawk
19-07-2015, 05:11 PM
Last I heard it was privately owned.

I've had a few of the Cardiff old boys tell many stories of how good it was back in the day when the club was there.

gone to rack'n'ruin. Cardiff moved there in the early 70's from No 1 oval

Premy
19-07-2015, 05:53 PM
Bit of an old thread this one but i was wondering what is happening with the old lymington park behind the driving range at cardiff does it get used at all? Who owns it now adays etc would be a great ground if done up a little but in my opinion if anyone can answer me would be great cheers ladsA property Developer owns it but they can't build anything there as it's Council zoned for park and recreation and it's flood prone.

the Developer was asked many years ago if it could be used again and he rejected it on the grounds of not wanting to be liable if anyone injured themselves. However it's a well known fact that they didn't want anyone on it as Council would be even more reluctant to change the zoning of it if a sporting organization was using it on a regular basis.

Premy
19-07-2015, 05:57 PM
Does anyone use the one off Hillsborough rd opposite the dog show area anymore? we played Cardiff a few times there
I believe the ground you are thinking of is Hillsborough Oval, if that's the one you're thinking of Cardiff and Boolaroo Cricket Club use it through the Summer and Cardiff Hawks AFL use it through the Winter.

RANGER09
20-07-2015, 08:44 AM
That would be it, power lines run directly over top of the field?

Premy
20-07-2015, 09:39 AM
That would be it, power lines run directly over top of the field?
Yeah that's the one.

Jardelsimage
20-07-2015, 11:24 AM
gone to rack'n'ruin. Cardiff moved there in the early 70's from No 1 oval

Cardiff moved there in the late 90's if I remember correctly, we went there after the union took over the old soccer club(lymington), and must I say f*^ked us over and then sold the club for next to nothing, to a solicitor from Sydney who steadfastly refuses to let anyone use it.
We let Cardiff Hawks juniors have it and went to Cardiff no2 wafter that.
Hillsy cricket are current users during the summer.
big pitch but shite during wet weather......

Retro Jet
20-07-2015, 03:12 PM
Valentine phoenix are the best gypsies, this group originated out of Tomago eagles, playing out of Tomago oval then they moved to Stewart and lloyds, (club phoenix) , mayfield park, (Insert Athfield here??) no 1 sports ground & Cahill oval + Baxter, after all these ground changes, and I have probably missed a couple, you would think they would get it right, not

They played at the Athletic Field for some period of time before the move to No1 I believe.
Baxter Field has to rate a mention...used earlier this season under duress because of...the Cricken??

Retro Jet
20-07-2015, 03:17 PM
Cardiff moved there in the late 90's if I remember correctly, we went there after the union took over the old soccer club(lymington), and must I say f*^ked us over and then sold the club for next to nothing, to a solicitor from Sydney who steadfastly refuses to let anyone use it.
We let Cardiff Hawks juniors have it and went to Cardiff no2 wafter that.
Hillsy cricket are current users during the summer.
big pitch but shite during wet weather......

Had the pleasure of playing ID3's v Cardiff on Lymington in 1997 (I think?) either 97 or 94 cause those were the years I was a reg'd player with NAWA.
Good nights ther in the past (80's) with Cup games. Basically always ended up the best local team v KB United.

Captain_Carl
19-11-2021, 03:13 PM
It is interesting to read about the past. I wonder what will happen moving forward? Anyone keen to speculate on who might be moving where or even if there will be any mergers?