Was GVE right?

[scarfy96]

OK tactics aside, I think we can all agree that since we have dropped the pretence that passing the ball across the back line hoping for oppositions to go to sleep was actually "controlling the game" we have been playing better. Also putting aside views on current tactics and your personal views on them.

There was ONE aspect of the GVE rebuild last year that does appear to be paying dividends. He built a "young" team of rising stars to build and develop a team about. Now a lot of these kids copped a fair bit of criticism last season when clearly they were under done. It is probably a valid argument that rather than putting so much pressure on them last year they could have been blended with a more experienced team for a better short term result.

That said, look who has been staring for the side this year:
- Taggs
- Beard
- Kanta
- Neville
- Chapman (OK some of you don't like him)
- Hoole
- Pepper
- Birri

Not saying that Zads, Kew, Burns and Heskey have been crap but the boys have really stood up this year, Goodwin, Galloway etc are better as well.

When you consider the age of these boys, IF (and I acknowledge that is a big IF at the moment as dollars will be thrown their way) they can hold this team together then surely things are looking promising moving forward.

Does GVE deserve any credit? This team was his selection and he pushed the youth policy. Fortunately he has abandoned the regimented slow tedious possession crap that just wan't working but there is some solid quality here starting to mature.

[Grimario]

Goodwin and Brown, much much worse now than when they "really stood up"
Kanta as good as his pre bayern munich form.
Neville as good as he was at Perth.
Chapman, one of the highest rated young centre backs in Australia, captain at youth level and widely lauded as a not too distant future Socceroo...
A bunch of other youth international regulars
Hoole. Okay, can give him credit for using Hoole.

The guy is a deadset genius though. Put together a side of some of the hottest youth talent in the country, some that have already played together at international level, some that were already first team regulars at other A-League clubs, take an entire year of being absolutely dogshite to give them character and experience then do a complete about face, play a style of football that suits their combined abilities and reap the benefits.




TLDR? No.

[380]

The only credit he deserves is finally acknowledging that cheeseburgers textbook carriculum football is not the be all and end all. GVE has caused nothing but grief in his 2 + years here chasing a style he himself has given up on. Burnt too many people along the way. I have no doubt he would be great in a development type role. Keep him away from first team management.

[Maito Mitch]

The reason he brought in all these young guys was to play his specific style of football which has failed dismally. So even if he was right, he's still wrong

[joel31]

Some credit, if we never had him we probably would have never signed players like Taggart

[russjaybee]

Can't say I really agree OP.

I would argue that none of the names you listed except maybe Taggart and Birraz have been "staring" for the team.

It's also very important to keep the wins in perspective, we did not really perform that well against a very very dire Heart side, their issues are well documented.

Also as mentioned in the other thread Goodwin has gone backwards this season if anything, not saying it's GvE's fault, just saying you cannot credit him for improving Goodwin when the opposite has happened (imo).

Having said all that, I do actually like GvE's philosophy of going with youth and trying to build a team that plays. I think the likes of Brillante, Neville, Taggart, Birraz were great pick ups from outside and the promotion of Hoole, Chapman and Pepper should be congratulated.

Kanta was hardly an unknown entity, he's been in and around the club for years now and we all know he has the potential to be a great midfielder, it's finding that old form that's the issue now. If you want to credit GvE for that then you also have to assume he had a hand in Kanta losing his form as well.

Overall I think GvE's recruitment is probably my least disliked part of him. I have never been overly impressed by him, I think he has often got selection wrong in the past and I don't think he's a great tactician. Having said all that it looks like he's started to figure out his starting 11 and things COULD be falling in to place.

How much of that is GvE and how much is confidence from getting a few results I do not know, either way it's good news for the team. We may actually be playing finals football again and you've gotta give him some credit for that.

[joel31]

Loaning Burns was a big mistake for Goodwin's confidence and development. He's playing at left back in training games alot of the time.

[Imyourhero]

I think one of the key changes is the fact that players are now allowed to express their natural flair and style.
In order to have a successfull team it is crucial that a team flows within a set structure that the coach details. However, when a structure is concreted into the point where players do not have the nerve to express even an ounce of their individuality out of fear of their career aspirations being crushed by an obsessed coach, no success will ever come about.
At the end of the day, it's individual ability that usually determines whether people create and finish that winning goal. I think GVE finally realised the restrictions he had put on were suffocating the team, by loosening the structure a little bit and allowing players to be creative with and without the ball the team is prospering more and more.

[scarfy96]

I think one of the key changes is the fact that players are now allowed to express their natural flair and style.
In order to have a successfull team it is crucial that a team flows within a set structure that the coach details. However, when a structure is concreted into the point where players do not have the nerve to express even an ounce of their individuality out of fear of their career aspirations being crushed by an obsessed coach, no success will ever come about.
At the end of the day, it's individual ability that usually determines whether people create and finish that winning goal. I think GVE finally realised the restrictions he had put on were suffocating the team, by loosening the structure a little bit and allowing players to be creative with and without the ball the team is prospering more and more.

As I said in the OP, I agree totally with all that.

However last year there was a fair bit of criticism of the likes of Neville and Tagg and Kanta before he had a run in with a fist and was out for the rest of the season. This year they are really standing up.

So what I am getting at is despite everything else can GVE hang his hat on this recruitment at least? Last year there were howls of criticism about it, this year it is showing genuine promise.

[Grimario]

Who were the howls of criticism from? I think most people on here were generally positive with the recruitments and saved blame for the tactics and squad management from GVE.

[q-money]

we can all agree that deans was the real problem all along

[Jetmaster]

Loaning Burns was a big mistake for Goodwin's confidence and development. He's playing at left back in training games alot of the time.

Goodwin needs to get over himself and his personal demons and fight, otherwise his career will be over as quickly as it started.

[scarfy96]

we can all agree that deans was the real problem all along

Certainly no argument from here

[plague]

58% possession, 3 goals and most importantly, 3 Griff goal celebrations.
TOTAL FOOTBALL IS BACK BABY!!!!!!!!!!


Can't wait til everyone signs for Sydney in the offseason.

Middleby out.

[MFKS]

NO







Close Thread

[380]

Loaning Burns was a big mistake for Goodwin's confidence and development. He's playing at left back in training games alot of the time.

I thought he came to us as a LB. Left Heart because he was behind Behic as first pick LB.

[joel31]

I thought he came to us as a LB. Left Heart because he was behind Behic as first pick LB.
He's better on the wing though

[russjaybee]

I thought he came to us as a LB. Left Heart because he was behind Behic as first pick LB.

He was definitely considered a LM/LW when we took Burns on.

[hawk]

I love this thread so many truisms

He stuffed reegz as well. If gve played the latest game plan which suits the players and chose the strongest side each week we would have had another 2 titles.

[militiamon]

Can't wait til everyone signs for Sydney in the offseason.

Geez, talk about wishful thinking plague.
They'll all be gone for free in January if Middleby gets his way.

[MFKS]

Geez, talk about wishful thinking plague.
They'll all be gone for free in January if Middleby gets his way.

:roflz: Touche
Plague 0 Militia 1

[sammydog]

GVE's sudden change of tactics worry me.

Not so much the change (we are winning), but why has he after 2 1/2 years ditched his system (remember he wasn't going to listen to pressure from the stands) that he was adamant was the only way to play football. The system he stuck with despite lack of results for over 2 seasons.

Now he is pretty much playing the way everyone (fans, Wehrman, etc) had been calling for and the results are coming.

Is the about face from a man who has had an epiphany, has he been told by the club, or is he just trying to save his career?

The squad is awesome, as it was last year. No issues there other than players having the confidence belted out of them. The tactics and structure have been the issue and his sudden about face on a number of facets of his coaching style worry me that he is doing what he can for a contract extension, then will just go back to his old philosophies.

[Grimario]

GVE's sudden change of tactics worry me.

Not so much the change (we are winning), but why has he after 2 1/2 years ditched his system (remember he wasn't going to listen to pressure from the stands) that he was adamant was the only way to play football. The system he stuck with despite lack of results for over 2 seasons.

Now he is pretty much playing the way everyone (fans, Wehrman, etc) had been calling for and the results are coming.

Is the about face from a man who has had an epiphany, has he been told by the club, or is he just trying to save his career?

The squad is awesome, as it was last year. No issues there other than players having the confidence belted out of them. The tactics and structure have been the issue and his sudden about face on a number of facets of his coaching style worry me that he is doing what he can for a contract extension, then will just go back to his old philosophies.

Just give him credit where credit is due, you idiot. He has admitted his mistake and we are winning now. Why focus on two years of him being shit? Stop looking at the past and just enjoy the present. GVE is completely free of any wrong doing now he has done the right thing. Just admit he has got it right now. Maybe in 2.5 years time, lol. JUST REALISE YOU ARE WRONG (mong).

These (paraphrased) nonsensical remarks brought to you by a bunch of knobs on twitter.

[plague]

Geez, talk about wishful thinking plague.
They'll all be gone for free in January if Middleby gets his way.

Yeah but I'm always looking at the positives, it's my nature.
Some of you blokes are too hard on Middleby sometimes.

[MFKS]

GVE's sudden change of tactics worry me.

Not so much the change (we are winning), but why has he after 2 1/2 years ditched his system (remember he wasn't going to listen to pressure from the stands) that he was adamant was the only way to play football. The system he stuck with despite lack of results for over 2 seasons.

Now he is pretty much playing the way everyone (fans, Wehrman, etc) had been calling for and the results are coming.

Is the about face from a man who has had an epiphany, has he been told by the club, or is he just trying to save his career?

The squad is awesome, as it was last year. No issues there other than players having the confidence belted out of them. The tactics and structure have been the issue and his sudden about face on a number of facets of his coaching style worry me that he is doing what he can for a contract extension, then will just go back to his old philosophies.

Watching the NYL team they are still playing the GVE way. Can't imagine the Emerging Jets changing their way either.

Hopefully the bloke has sussed it out right and has decided the HAL team play whatever is necessary to get results slowly working towards implementing the GVE way in full flight.

The yoof teams play the GVE way now and regardless of results to learn and develop it so in time we can just impose the GVE way on the first team exactly how it should have been done 2 years ago.

Just remember Barca took 25 years to develop their tikka takka

[sammydog]

Just give him credit where credit is due, you idiot. He has admitted his mistake and we are winning now. Why focus on two years of him being shit? Stop looking at the past and just enjoy the present. GVE is completely free of any wrong doing now he has done the right thing. Just admit he has got it right now. Maybe in 2.5 years time, lol. JUST REALISE YOU ARE WRONG (mong).

These (paraphrased) nonsensical remarks brought to you by a bunch of knobs on twitter.

I don't think you missed anything.

[Couscous]

On recruitment? Yes.

On tactics? It remains to be seen.

[380]

GVE's sudden change of tactics worry me.

Not so much the change (we are winning), but why has he after 2 1/2 years ditched his system (remember he wasn't going to listen to pressure from the stands) that he was adamant was the only way to play football. The system he stuck with despite lack of results for over 2 seasons.

Now he is pretty much playing the way everyone (fans, Wehrman, etc) had been calling for and the results are coming.

Is the about face from a man who has had an epiphany, has he been told by the club, or is he just trying to save his career?

The squad is awesome, as it was last year. No issues there other than players having the confidence belted out of them. The tactics and structure have been the issue and his sudden about face on a number of facets of his coaching style worry me that he is doing what he can for a contract extension, then will just go back to his old philosophies.

Doesn't want to go back to calling on tuck shops and corner stores flogg'n soft drinks and gumpy bars. If the club wants to keep him it should be a season at a time. If he doesn't like that deal he can well and truly fluck off.

[hawk]

Geez, talk about wishful thinking plague.
They'll all be gone for free in January if Middleby gets his way.

robbies a northern cell for smurfs and al qaeda

[scarfy96]

Watching the NYL team they are still playing the GVE way. Can't imagine the Emerging Jets changing their way either.

Hopefully the bloke has sussed it out right and has decided the HAL team play whatever is necessary to get results slowly working towards implementing the GVE way in full flight.

The yoof teams play the GVE way now and regardless of results to learn and develop it so in time we can just impose the GVE way on the first team exactly how it should have been done 2 years ago.

Just remember Barca took 25 years to develop their tikka takka

Wow and to think I used to have you on ignore.

I knew I would agree with you if I waited long enough. ;)

[stormypete]

The jury is still out I reckon. Time will tell. It'll be interesting to revisit this thread in late January ... we'll know more by then. I've been a pretty harsh critic of GVE to date but have to give some credit for admitting to change .... something I didn't ever think he'd do.

[Blackmac79]

I love GVE.

Buy the jetstream. It only has happy positive articles!

[Grimario]

I love GVE.

Buy the jetstream. It only has happy positive articles!

Only because I haven't submitted one yet...

[Blackmac79]

Well hurry up.

[Grimario]

Well hurry up.

Before Christmas.

It might be a little more mellow than I had planned originally.

[seldom]

A coaching philosophy for 2.5 years...then a new direction out of the blue...everythings sweet,why would you question ?