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I agree getting the balance is important, and there will be parents with some strong opinions. You would think the Zones looking after the SAP girls will have better resources for paying coaches, equipment & facilities too.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
So do the 9's girls play against the 9's boys?
Draw is out as well. Seems pretty similar to last year where same club teams play at same time then have a game off then swap opponents.
yeah was trying to see if any teams dropped from the program. Singleton looks like they went back to one team, which wasnt a bad idea as they were getting flogged every week. Am happy that the clubs with lots of junior numbers kept the numbers up. Not all kids peak at 9 so glad they are keeping the net as wide as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Police
Havent spoken to any team officials from our club and was wondering the age of the girls teams they are all playing. Can only assume the Jets girls will be older, as i didnt think they had a U/10's program.
Another thing was our club has moved to an A team and B team this year. Last year they split the teams evenly, but sounds like the club, rather than the coaches, made them stack the teams.
i can understand both sides of the argument, but would have preferred they split the talent.
not sure how many other clubs have gone down this route (i know a few did last year).
in 9's Southy is a new team. Wallsend back to one team and they play their hub days together.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
So why have A & B? To win? and to keep this as the main future squad?
If you need an A team to compete maybe only one team is necessary. Those in B teams might also walk before they hit their peak.
Absolutely over SAP. Our club got pillaged again in the junior ranks.
8 players from last years under 8's gone to this seasons U9's SAP at other clubs. More gone from older ages.
I'd like to know why it is only NPL/NL1 with the opportunity to run the show. For the second year running we have lost enough kids to fill a full team. Set strict licensing criteria like other confederations and open the system up to clubs with ambition. Current system makes it impossible to build youth at clubs outside the privileged few.
yeah again, totally understand all the different arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Police
Our club has pretty much been told from next year (11's onwards), it will be one (bigger) team. So there will be about 14 spots available.
The 2 different coaches have 2 very different approaches, and i think they've matched the kids to the coach they will do better under. Some kids last year were pretty uninterested, but skillful enough. The coach they have this year is great at getting people enthused, whereas the A team coach is a bit more technical. Maybe putting the 'better' kids with the technical coach and the kids that needed a fire up with the B team coach will help everyone. Judging from training though, the kids in the B team dont feel like they are any less deserving, which has been awesome to watch.
Does your club run the NET program? has it been offered to you? or is that an NPL thing as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
It's an old experiment and the results at this age are usually - A team will beat the B team. B team will beat everyone else including teams A team loses to.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Tweet on Twitter from Tom Byers well known alternative coaching philosopher
Basically bagging this concept being imposed on 9 year olds
Makes the pretty relevant point that it should be being applied to the 6-9 year old bracket instead and that the powers that be are clueless
Thats only for Newcastle Clubs unfortunately. That program seem to be pretty good looking from the outside.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
it is a pretty weird system that basically says ages 6-9 its all about playing and winning games on the weekend (this is the attitude of coaches and trainers, no mini roos clubs are dedicated at teaching kids the home program etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Then at 9 we say, forget games, its all about skills and we'll get to tactics around 11 or 12.
the thing ive noticed from last year and this year, the 'new' kids that trialled for the SAP program were still all about running all over the park kicking crap out of anyone to win the ball the trying to dribble around everyone to score. they looked so out of depth against kids that could play a simple 1-2 or hold a ball up and roll a defender.
'luckily' Plague jnr was all about technique on the ball in those early years. the best kids in his team now already have so much more time on the ball, and seem quite 'lazy' compared to others but are way better footballers than the energizer bunnies.
miniroos (age 6 up) need an overhaul and get the kids learning to kick and pass with some technique before worrying about winning games. but then the age old thing comes in about who teaches them from that age? are parents happy to pay the money for multiple nights training for a sport their kid is just getting into?
id love to see miniroos coaches do a basic course, then make the parents interact with their kids at training. then get the parents to work on technique at home. 10 mins a day learning how to make good contact on the ball would put these kids so much further ahead (not to mention get them away from screens, get them fit etc etc etc).
i agree the whole system 'seems' backwards.
really? had no idea. so Lake Mac doesnt offer anything other than SAP?Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
yet another example of the whole damn system being screwed i guess.
our club brought in a NET team this season as they had more than enough good kids to fill multiple SAP teams. all the kids trialled together and they moved them where the kids seemed to fit best. Some of Plague Jnrs old SAP teammates are playing NET this year. Its a bigger field with more players on the park and it def seems to suit the more athletic kids who can make use of the space. Our club was really good to point out that NET wasnt an 'inferior' program to SAP and that they were just different. from what ive seen from the NET kids in our club this year it already looks like a great program and the kids are every bit as focused on playing good football.
again, the hope is that more kids get more training in the hope of unearthing their potential.
So you got knocked back for a SAP team? I thought Kotara was also thinking of put a team in. They didnt.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
Can you make up a special Macq comp?
Fair enough. Always an interesting affair when 2 teams go into 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Amazing how this happens. IF the A team have a couple of guns theyll gun it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
I believe they have put a team into the NET program. Did they not get it across the line in the end?Quote:
Originally Posted by Negative Police
yeah im positive Kotara has a NET team.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
Hope they did, I have a lot of respect for that club.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Ages of the girls teams vary. I know in the Under 9's the girls sides are Under 10 but they have a couple of girls turning 11 after the end of the season but I'm not sure why they'd do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Byers...Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
So if you arent hitting passes, dropping the shoulder and turning out by 8 it's all over. 52 weeks is a long season and looks like the sporting career has to made by 5. So, give me a kid till 7 and ill show you the football professional and probably a social nutjob.Quote:
“The coaching at elite level in USA and Australia is better than Japan and Korea, the difference is that Japan and Korea, players are better technically.
“Skill is rarely the result of coaching, it’s discipline and culture. Kids in Japan train 52 weeks of the year.
Aegon Jr is new to SAP 9's this year, having read through some of the previous pages I can agree with some of the sentiment expressed but I think a lot of it is out of touch with reality. In the younger age groups there are far too many players for anyone to adequately train everyone at the same level. There isn't enough volunteer coaches or the finances to support it from the top down.
I coached for the last 3 seasons at Jr's previous club in miniroos and at the community club level the biggest challenge is trying to train kids at such varied levels of ability and enthusiasm. Unfortunately the majority of your time has to be spent with kids who need extra help rather than trying to nurture the kids with the most talent. i would love for there to be more resources and more volunteers but there just isn't. So for Jr I decided to try SAP for a year and see where we go from there.
The most noticeable differences so far is that at Jr's SAP club the coaches are well informed, accredited and being mentored directly by a TD. The kids there are all keen and there is already a good grasp of the fundamentals. With several training sessions a week with other good kids and great coaching and 2 games each weekend I can't fault my choice to put Jr into SAP. Agree or Disagree with the concept it is currently the best available option for kids 8yo and above.
With regards to teams, they have only played 1 round so far but it looks like there are 4 clubs with only a single team, plus the Hunter Valley and Lake Macquarie girls also only fielding a single team. I can't confirm what age group the girls teams are but judging by the size difference they are at least Under 10's in the Under 9's. Some of the boys weren't even as tall as the girls shoulders.
I don't know about the other clubs yet but Jr's team have picked two evenly skilled teams not an A & B squad.
I'm hearing rumours that they have only released half the draw as they may split the comp after round 11 into 2 groups to try and balance team abilities and avoid lopsided results.
With regards to finances, after the active kids voucher the fees were $600+, however I was very happy that the club gave a breakdown of the fees to show exactly how much was being allocated from the fees into different areas such as NNSW contribution, grounds, lighting, coaches, TD, insurance, etc, etc. The club gives everyone the option to pay up front or via a payment plan. While it is still expensive it is definitely achievable and not out of reach for everyone as some have previously said here. In 12 Months I'll spend way more than $600 on alcohol, coffee, lunch, etc, so it just takes a bit of tightening of the purse strings in some areas to get the most for your kids.
i saw one of the SAP 9's teams playing against a U/10 girls team last weekend, the 9's boys (granted it was one of the 'stronger' SAP clubs) were towelling the girls up pretty easily.
When we were leaving the one of the SAP 10's teams were warming up and the girls team they were about to play were waaaaaaaayyyyyyyy bigger than them. So not sure if those girls were 11's or 12's.
That might come back to haunt them in five or six years.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Which club, may I ask? An excellent bit of PR, showing the parents where their hard earned goes. Should be mandatory for all SAP, NEWFM and NPL clubs where families get hit with anything over $500. My kids fees this year in NPL well exceeded $1000 and I have no clarity on where it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
Jaffas. It was in the first or second parents meeting where they gave every parent a bunch of handouts. one of the handouts was a full page breakdown of what they were charging and exactly how much was going into different areas. The breakdown as it was explained to us was based on known costs for this season and estimated costs based on the previous season. The biggest chunk of the fees definitely went up the food chain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Nice post, just remember it’s not a comp though, some parents can get lost with this
id say pretty much every club would be more than happy to show you where the money goes if you ask. Our club has always been pretty eager to show parents that the club itself was not getting much out of it. If anything it gives a lot of parents motivation to maybe volunteer more to help the club out, knowing how much others are putting into it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Well done Jaffas SAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
My son is in their Youth NPL. Pity that they didn't do the same there!! Currently have parents up in arms over a $350 clothing cost for a training shirt, training shorts, match shorts, 2 pairs socks and a track suit top and a polo. Poor quality stuff it is too.
I think that the smart clubs would do this as a matter of course. saves the inevitable "our fees pay the first grade wages" complaints. Having been on a club committee, I am fully aware of just how much it costs, but clubs that don't provide that openness are asking for complaints. I agree that most clubs would show you if you asked, but I think that the smart move would be to offer it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
for sureQuote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRed
44 games to build skills, knowledge and make decisions under pressure. 1 or 2 teams might still be in it for egotistical win though.
Might want to investigate the links between the club and supplier thenQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
The supplier covers a lot of the clubs in the hunter. A couple of Aegon Jr's friends are in other SAP teams and their uniform costs were all around the $300 mark. Cost is for 2 strips, training shirt, polo shirt and a club jacket. Pretty steep if you ask me but there doesn't seem to be a big range in the supplier options.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
I've now been watching the 9's and 10's SAP games for 5 rounds.
There are some kids out there that are being very well trained & hopefully it shows in their future development.
I have also recently learnt of these programs that are in place.
NNSWF have the Talent Support Program via Leo Bertos for U10's (& NPL ages) & Newcastle Football via Richard Hartley are running an Advanced Group Training for U9's-U12's.
Both of these initiatives are taking selected kids from those age groups and running extra training (1 or 2 nights a week) in order to further develop the kids with most potential.
However a gripe I have is that some SAP clubs are setting their teams up with A & B squads. I do not understand the reasoning behind this as the B squads I have seen are getting demolished. Personally I think it isn't great for the development of either team and in the end most of the parents & kids of the B teams will get sick of paying $1000 a year and go back to community football or quit the game entirely.
Plague Jnrs club* is one of the ones that set up and A and a B team. This was done via instruction from the 'technical director' of the club, not by the SAP coaches. There was def a lot of discussion between coaches and parents on the merits of the idea, but it was implemented anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
The main reason is that from next year, SAP is going to one team per club (approx 13-14 kids as opposed to 18 this year), so a bunch of kids are going to get cut regardless. Having seen the kids in Plague Jnrs club, and other kids in the program, its evident that some kids arent good enough for what the program is designed for (at the moment). Our club intends on giving any kids that miss out on SAP next year a leg up into their NET team in order to keep them involved with the club and still getting better coaching than 'park football' kids.
Again, there are def positives and negatives in it, but it is what it is. The program is designed to get the very best of these kids ready to join the emerging Jets in a couple of years time. They need to be pushed now, and training, playing against similar standard kids is the only way to get there. I dont like that some of the bigger clubs will only get one team next year (including ours) when there are clubs in the program now that have 2 squads full of kids who are just not good enough.
Again though, its not over for the kids. One of Plague Jnrs new team mates wasnt in SAP last year, just played with his mates (for 'our' club). He heard about the trials and came down for a crack. He is already one of the better players in the A team, and looks a real talent. If kids miss out next year then they'll prob have to work out why, and if they still want it, bust their ass to get back in.
A bit of rejection should never be a bad thing at any age.
*Plague Jnr is in U/10's, he played last year in U/9 SAP and the teams werent graded. This year the U/9 SAP kids at his club arent graded either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
I don't disagree at all about the rejection thing, I think the kids are being over protected already, especially not playing competitively (scores) until Under 12's. I know my son and his mates play Futsal in the off season which is scored from Under 6/7's and it has never been an issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
My issue is with the development, I honestly think it is detrimental to both the A and B squads not mixing ability levels. In every team ever there is always a difference in ability from top to bottom player. These kids should be getting used to that now by learning to play with and against players who are better and worse than them. The players in the "A" teams are not going to be used to having to play it tough either, I'll be real interested to see what happens to the "A" teams when they start facing tougher competition every week from under 11's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
yeah, its hilarious that all the SAP kids play to win, they know if they won, they know the score and so do the parents and coaches. To be fair though, ive never heard Plague Jnrs coach talk specifically about a 'win' or a 'loss' after the game or at training. He talks a lot about the performance and works on things the kids didnt do well while its fresh in their memories.
Can totally understand every different point of view on the A and B thing. Last year Plague jnr had one of the best kids in the whole program in his team, the combination they had was great and it lifted Plague jnrs level immensely. This year he has probably 3 of the better kids in the program (and the rest are all really good) on his team and they are a pretty decent side. But Plague Jnr has a lot less to do individually because of how good his teammates are. My 'fear' is that he will not develop at the same rate as last year because his job is way easier. again though, his coach is so good taking him aside and working on things that if he applies himself, he'll improve. and if he isnt good enough, then he'll soon know.
one of the problems with 2 'ok' teams is that a lot of the best kids in those teams went and trialled with 'stronger' teams and clubs from 9's to 10's. The kids (and prob parents) wanted their kids in the best environment and you cant blame them. by the time our kids get to 14's, the best of them (realistically only 1 or 2 kids) will be in the Jets program, and the rest will be part of a really strong NPL side, who are still being exposed to great coaching and matches (including against the Jets) so if they stand out they will still be seen.
IM not sure how clubs getting routinely flogged every week will attract better players and how they'll compete by the time it gets 'serious'. Hopefully any kids on the borderline of getting cut by the better clubs go and trials at the lower clubs and boost their teams. it will make the program better and sustain the NPL going forward.
Exactly this. The coaches are doing a great job focusing on what they did well and what they need to improve rather than the result. However every child there will tell you the score at the end!Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Big example of whats wrong with junior football today.
An under 10's SAP game had to be abandoned when the ref had copped a couple of sprays from one of the coaches.
I could hear the coach talking to his players and was pretty rude to them during the game, but once he started on the ref it went way over the top.
The ref pretty much said to him to shut it, but the bloke wouldnt, so the ref told him to ref the game himself and walked off.
It was a ridiculous situation, and the coach should be seriously embarrassed, but here we are with so called 'elite' players having to put up with clowns like this bloke in charge of them. I saw parents/members of the club go up to the ref and apologise and it sounded like the coach had form.
kids aint gonna learn anything with dopes like that in charge of them.
Name and shame
as much as i would love to see the bloke get a talking to, im not sure calling him out personally 'on here' is the best way (nor do we want to Mods in any hot water).Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRed
the fact that people from his club were there hopefully means he has to answer to the right people.
Also if my kid was getting coached by a bloke like that he'd be moving him to another team as soon as possible.
Interesting that there can be a B team determined before the first week. These players from this team will be on the outer if they dont improve. If The B team is still competitive then good but if going to get flogged thats no help for mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
However, if the comp is broken into 2 sections for the 2nd half of the season,the strong and the weak should be competitive most weeks.
I do agree if most games are too easy then the challenge isnt enough.
I have also seen a couple players that are nowhere near the level. How they get in is beyond a joke.