2022 NPL Youth thread

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Originally Posted by sapdad

This would be the fairest way to do it from a playing perspective,but it will never happen as the draw and ground logistics would be a nightmare.To be fair theres not many clubs that have one team right at the top and the rest at the bottom.Most clubs youth seem pretty similar spots on the table.For the one or two teams it will stuff around it wont make it worthwhile.Plus theres players helping out in the grades above on gamedays that is happening way more than i thought it would so far this year.

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sometimes a couple of ages up, especially if there ends up being a few injuries across a game day, it can be up to the football gods some weeks!

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

further decouple all age groups...a group of really talented group at an underperforming club should not be punished, and they should not be disincentivised to leave to pursue "better" options...just grade them all based on their previous year's performance

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This won't work as reasons from above which does hurt some clubs with that 1 strong grade.
But clubs need to be vigilant across all grades if they really want that top division.

Even youth it is a disadvantage for clubs who dont have $$$ but that is a barrier they need to solve.

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

Interesting times ahead!

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

Interesting times ahead!

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I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

I cant see registrations becoming cheaper no matter what happens.They never do.As long as parents and players feel they are getting value for money it wont be an issue regardless of the grade.

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I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

As I said, interesting times ahead!

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

I can't imagine too many NL1 clubs will want to raise fees to match NPL. They have struggled enough this year to filed teams and some can't. I've been told one of the reasons why Cooks Hill can't field a team this year in the 16s is the increased cost was not what parents were promised. If you are a parent of a kid in a current NPL club that gets "dropped" to the second tier, will you want to pay what you did at the top level when you are no longer in it?

As I said, interesting times ahead!

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Does anyone know the difference in fees between the dearest in NPL and cheapest in NL1? I was told most NPL were around $1300.I agree that gouging clubs on rego just because they are now 'NPL' level whether level 1,2 or 3 is stupid and greedy.The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.Id love to call for a maximum price but that wont happen either.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

What will be interesting when decoupling comes is how the cost will impact players/clubs. Current NPL clubs charge a lot more than NL1 clubs. Now that they are all likely to be in the same comp (albeit with multiple levels) will the "cheaper" clubs become more attractive? Might not happen immediately, but could be a consequence. And if NPL clubs are forced to be cheaper, how will that impact the senior squad and budgets.

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How will this affect club finances? Decoupling won't affect where the club $$$ goes. Youth rego still goes to seniors.

The only difference is club champion pts determines the grade and draw.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

The federations should have a fixed fee as their cut and then let clubs charge whatever they determine to be the cost of running their programs.

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Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

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try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

try $850 and $800 at two NL1 clubs that I know of.

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Wow.
10 years ago, paid 350 or 400 for seniors NBN.
What’s changed?
Doubt anything has changed to warrant 4x $$$.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Umm Northern do have a fixed fee (equates to about $70 per player). The clubs do charge whatever they want.

NPL clubs are charging around $1,500, HitFM are around the $1,000 mark

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Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Sorry I didnt word my post very well.I understand clubs charge whatever they want but didnt know if the feds fixed fee was the same across all levels (grassroots to seniors) or if they had different rates.

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Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

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Originally Posted by AVB

Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

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This is good insight.

So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but let’s go with $1500.

Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? It’s not $50K hopefully.

Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

If we are decoupling youth, let’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. That’s something we can all get on board with.

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

This is good insight.

So most of our NPL clubs charge approx $1500 per head fees for youth. Some more, some less, but letÂ’s go with $1500.

Based on 64 youth players most clubs would generate $96K in fees. Minus $44K fees, there is a $50K surplus. How much does the ground hire/maintenance, coaching, equipment cost generally? ItÂ’s not $50K hopefully.

Add your JDL fees on top, minus your coaching, ground fees again, and NPL clubs should have the funds available to progress well. What they do with that money however is the source of debate and frustration as most accept this goes into the senior funds.

If we are decoupling youth, letÂ’s decouple the fee streams as well and see whether we can develop our youth better. More money should mean better coaching, development, opportunities. ThatÂ’s something we can all get on board with.

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I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
Maintenance on ground $10,000
Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
Equipment ~$5kpa?

So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

less NNSW fees, that's $105K

Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AVB

Club Fees to NNSW for NPL are as follows:

Per Youth player: $124.88
Per Snr Player: $209.69
Competition fee: $10,243.75
Match Official Appointments officer: $770
FFA Cup: $907.50
Discipline Levy: $825
Match official Fees: $13,945

Rough numbers total then assuming 36 Snr players, 64 Youth Players:

Total NPL Participation Fees: $44,193.49

So only considering the money paid to NNSW that divided by 110 players is $402 per player

That's obviously before any club costs -> Ground hire and maintenance, Coaching, TDs, Equipment, clothing etc, etc

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Those numbers are really interesting thanks for posting.

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Originally Posted by AVB

I think you're heavily underestimating costs for clubs here.

Average grounds rental for year including lighting etc $30,000
Maintenance on ground $10,000
Clothing - $200 per player: 200 * 100 players = $20,000
Youth coaching not sure but maybe $1500 per team? Plus TD which is mainly youth focused at maybe $10/15k? + 10/15K per 1st grade team?
Equipment ~$5kpa?

So let's assume 100 players at $1500 each rego, that's 150k

less NNSW fees, that's $105K

Less the club costs (~$95K) above is ~$10k left.

I'm sure there are heaps of activities clubs do that I haven't considered costs for. I also see clubs at Gyms, or LMRFF. Clubs have match day physios, VEO Cameras etc

The cost of regos is very high, but the reality is that the price is more or less the cost of running the programs. Demand has shifted to expect a much higher quality program. Qualified coaches and TDs, demand for the best quality pitches, expectations around clothing, expectations around training equipment and facilities etc

The obvious question is how are 1st grade players paid etc, and clubs would argue that they are paid from sponsorship, gate takings, canteen taking etc.

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My feel is that you may be overestimating the costs for grounds, maintenance, kit. Remember that a club pays one set of ground fees whether its for JDL, youth or seniors, and then recoups fees across all these groups. Some clubs include kit in the rego fees, others charge more on top. Coaching fees are minimal, somewhere around the amount one youth player rego fees. Yes some train out at Speers Point but equipment is not an every year thing. I am confident after all outlays there is ample left for this to be ploughed back into youth but it does not. It goes into a seniors black hole and doesn't come out again.

Yes sponsorship, gate money, canteen helps pay seniors but younger grades fees help more. I would just like to see what goes in to youth comes out at the other end. Clubs are generally doing good jobs across the cities in youth but on a shoestring when there could be more $$ if youth fees were kept separate from seniors.

Show me a club that publishes there full fees breakdown from seniors down to JDL. If you cannot then ask why.

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Originally Posted by AVB

Competition fee: $10,243.75

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This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

This is the interesting number. What on earth does this cover?

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Maintaining LMRFF, despite northern not actually owning the land.

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

Rego refunds galore

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Originally Posted by Aegon

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

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Considering that NPL clubs don't share their grounds its ridiculous to not just extend the season. Particularly for youth players. Just let them keep playing. I don't get the point, football for these kids is pretty much year around anyway.

What on earth are we all paying for if they don't play or train?

and

Why aren't they rescheduling games mid week at speers?

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Originally Posted by Aegon

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

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I wonder if this will be policed or if NNSW will allow games to be played if both clubs can accomodate it?I can imagine the pressure some clubs would place on NNSW if their team needs a win to make semis in those final weeks.

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

My feel is that you may be overestimating the costs for grounds, maintenance, kit. Remember that a club pays one set of ground fees whether its for JDL, youth or seniors, and then recoups fees across all these groups.

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That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

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Originally Posted by northern_swan

That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

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If this is the case then things have changed since my time on committees, noting that was in the NCC area. So on a tier 1 field LMCC charge a kid between $41 - $59 a season for training and games and seniors $67 - $98 for ground use. What do clubs get for their buck? Is this for the standard mowing and maintenance? What's the chances of LMCC providing clubs a refund for a year like this where kids aren't getting on the paddock and fields aren't getting mowed?

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Originally Posted by KITZ

Considering that NPL clubs don't share their grounds its ridiculous to not just extend the season. Particularly for youth players. Just let them keep playing. I don't get the point, football for these kids is pretty much year around anyway.

What on earth are we all paying for if they don't play or train?

and

Why aren't they rescheduling games mid week at speers?

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100%

My boy has played 6 games this comp season and I can guarantee his club would choose matches over training every time. Why not forget the Speers Point full field training sessions and play games at those times instead? Clubs are out there training from 8 o'clock some week nights so let's just get the midweek games played.

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

100%

My boy has played 6 games this comp season and I can guarantee his club would choose matches over training every time. Why not forget the Speers Point full field training sessions and play games at those times instead? Clubs are out there training from 8 o'clock some week nights so let's just get the midweek games played.

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This app needs a like button

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Originally Posted by northern_swan

That’s not how it works in Lake Macquarie. For each player, a seasonal training fee & a seasonal game fee is levied by council (via their facility operating committee on a per player basis.

2022 Tier 1 fields (adult $/child $)
Training: $41/$24
Playing:$57/$35

Tier 2 fields
Training: $26/$15
Playing: $41/26

It can add up pretty quickly. I would guess clubs like Azzuri (NPL/WNPL) Kahibah (NL1, ZL, community), Warners Bay (WNPL, ZL, community) & Valentine (NPL, community) who run in different levels of competition would be forking out $20k or more per year on council fees.

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Wait. How does players numbers dictate field maintenance?

The field will need a certain amount of fert, soils, man and machine hours and regardless of traffic. Yes a little more materials for an extra team or 2.

There should be a set amount per field regardless of numbers. That way we might be able to reduce rego.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aegon

NNSWF Memo - MEMO 41-2022

Postponed Matches in Second Half of the Season (13-18s Only)
As previously mentioned, we currently have 340+ rescheduled matches, some of which are now starting to be rescheduled as late as July. Many of the rescheduled matches this and coming midweeks are also unlikely to be played because of the current continued rain and will need to be rescheduled to a later date.

Given the current weather situation is predicted to continue for the coming months, NNSWF can confirm that any match, under 13 through to under 18 (inclusive), that is postponed in the second half of the season, in the specific rounds noted below, will not be rescheduled, and will be declared 0-0. For clarity this will apply to matches in the following rounds of competitions:

League / Rounds that will not be replayed if postponed
NPLM 18s / Rounds 13-22 (plus rescheduled round 1 in August)
NPLM 13-16s / Rounds 14-26
NPLW 13-17s / Rounds 15-21
NL1 18s / Rounds 12-22
NL1 13-15s / Rounds 12-22

For the avoidance of doubt, all 1st Grade and Reserves matches will be rescheduled and only declared 00 if we reach a point in the season where they do not impact final league positions.

It is Northern NSW Football’s intention to ensure, at a minimum, all matches from the first half of the season are played. Whilst we understand not playing matches is extremely disappointing, it is realistic to predict that we will still have matches originally postponed from the first half the season being played in July and August in the lead up to finals.

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It will be interesting to see how many wash outs in the second round by clubs who would prefer a draw

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

If this is the case then things have changed since my time on committees, noting that was in the NCC area. So on a tier 1 field LMCC charge a kid between $41 - $59 a season for training and games and seniors $67 - $98 for ground use. What do clubs get for their buck? Is this for the standard mowing and maintenance? What's the chances of LMCC providing clubs a refund for a year like this where kids aren't getting on the paddock and fields aren't getting mowed?

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NCC don’t do it that way, I believe it’s a uniquely LMCC thing

Council basically mow the grass and empty the bins & the money collected goes into a fund to go to electricity, repairs &maintenance at the facility. They’ll provide a minimal amount of fertiliser on top of that. Rumour has it that they don’t mind liberally applying growth inhibitors to the grass though ��

Blow a light? That comes out of the fund.
Topdressing? The fund.

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Originally Posted by jim wallis

Wait. How does players numbers dictate field maintenance?

The field will need a certain amount of fert, soils, man and machine hours and regardless of traffic. Yes a little more materials for an extra team or 2.

There should be a set amount per field regardless of numbers. That way we might be able to reduce rego.

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On one hand, the committees that manage the facility get a say in how the revenue generated by the venue is spent.
On the other, the bigger you are as a club, the more discretionary spend you get for r & m

Quote:

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Originally Posted by northern_swan

NCC don’t do it that way, I believe it’s a uniquely LMCC thing

Council basically mow the grass and empty the bins & the money collected goes into a fund to go to electricity, repairs &maintenance at the facility. They’ll provide a minimal amount of fertiliser on top of that. Rumour has it that they don’t mind liberally applying growth inhibitors to the grass though ��&m

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In my time in NCC it is was: club X gets this many fields so cost is per fields allocated to clubs. Some fields better than other so there is a premium on those fields. Council covers mowing, maintenance, bins and club covers electric and water. I can’t get me head around per player charges. Someone in LMCC thought of a way to make a motza and the clubs cop it.

Maybe it works, I don’t know but it doesn’t sit well.

The rumour is that by the end next season we’ll have two leagues of youth made from the best of NPL and NL1. The Cookers, Lakes and Adamstown will be worried but will the likes of New Lambton be up for the challenge of the top league? Reading these pages New Lambton has a reputation of not wanting to compete with the big boys. Sounds suss to me as they put the time and money in. Any New Lambton people on here happy to share views?

Anyone got details on how youth is going to look next year and then on?

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

The rumour is that by the end next season we’ll have two leagues of youth made from the best of NPL and NL1. The Cookers, Lakes and Adamstown will be worried but will the likes of New Lambton be up for the challenge of the top league? Reading these pages New Lambton has a reputation of not wanting to compete with the big boys. Sounds suss to me as they put the time and money in. Any New Lambton people on here happy to share views?

Anyone got details on how youth is going to look next year and then on?

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That might be the plan, but as NL1 will not have a requirement for youth after decoupling (or so I am told) and given that some NL1 clubs can't field all youth teams now, there might not be enough clubs to have 2 leagues. From the clubs perspective: why bother? c.$800 for NL1 or c.$250 for community football.

NNSW board is rudderless and the CEO has way too much power.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

That might be the plan, but as NL1 will not have a requirement for youth after decoupling (or so I am told) and given that some NL1 clubs can't field all youth teams now, there might not be enough clubs to have 2 leagues. From the clubs perspective: why bother? c.$800 for NL1 or c.$250 for community football.

NNSW board is rudderless and the CEO has way too much power.

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This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

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Thats the whole idea. Get the house in order or fall. Then you run risk of losing players in other ages.

But that's ok because its about the players being in the right grade not so much the clubs.
In saying that it also favours those clubs who poach the best. Double edged sword.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spell Check

This is interesting. You make a solid point re NL1 clubs not covering all youths grades. If these clubs want in but can’t cover all ages do they automatically go into the bottom tier? Just means some of those less strong clubs get bumped up to the top and their misery continues.

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Nope, because of decoupling, having no youth will not be punished unless you have dreams of NPL.

And when NL1 senior grades gets opened to current ZPL sides with no youth at all.........It will happen. Picture a strong current ZPL side going "up" to NL1 and dominating but never seeking promotion to NPL because a)why bother with youth, b) why stop being top dog and c)why take on the added costs/burdens?

Next year will be even worse for NL1 with NL going up (or so rumour central has it).

If I ran a NL1 club, I would can NL1 youth, and drop those teams into community league. Cheaper, simpler and as long as I provide the same quality of coaching etc I will still have young players to make their way up. Worry abut NPL somewhere down the track.

The reality is we are putting lipstick on a pig. We have too many teams in NPL and NL1 for the available talent. We have a CEO that does as he pleases and has promised clubs things and for some reason fears braking those promises. We have a board that won't make the choices needed for today and seems to be under the control of the CEO.

The board needs to make independent decisions based on today's reality and see them implemented for the good of the game. If some clubs are disappointed by that, there will be just as many who are pleased by it. Consensus on here seems to be two comps of 8 with promotion and relegation and a youth stream which is decoupled and includes FNC, NC and NI. If we forum loonies can see it, why can't the games administrators?

If choices were made in reality, there is no way Cookers would have gone up, there is no way NL will go up and there is no way Adamstown, Lakes and Valo would all still be NPL. Think on where we would be today on that basis.

Using a rough calculation based on a club championship in NPL youth as it stands today Azzuri,Weston,Lakes,Cooks Hill and Rosebuds go down.If you add in New Lambton,Kahibah,South Cardiff,Belswans and NIAS from NL1 you have a pretty strong 2nd tier.All of those clubs (apart from NIAS at the moment) can fill all youth grades and should provide enough spots for the talent level available for kids who want to both develop and test themselves.The fact is there are kids in NL1 that are good enough to play in the bottom half of NPL clubs.Adding in New Lambton next year wont improve any overall level of NPL as they are not better than any of the bottom 5 teams.They may be similar,but they are not better and certainly wont bother the top clubs in youth.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

If choices were made in reality, there is no way Cookers would have gone up, there is no way NL will go up and there is no way Adamstown, Lakes and Valo would all still be NPL. Think on where we would be today on that basis.

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We would have games worth watching. yawn

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Using a rough calculation based on a club championship in NPL youth as it stands today Azzuri,Weston,Lakes,Cooks Hill and Rosebuds go down.If you add in New Lambton,Kahibah,South Cardiff,Belswans and NIAS from NL1 you have a pretty strong 2nd tier.All of those clubs (apart from NIAS at the moment) can fill all youth grades and should provide enough spots for the talent level available for kids who want to both develop and test themselves.The fact is there are kids in NL1 that are good enough to play in the bottom half of NPL clubs.Adding in New Lambton next year wont improve any overall level of NPL as they are not better than any of the bottom 5 teams.They may be similar,but they are not better and certainly wont bother the top clubs in youth.

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That’s the purpose of including them, so that they can be in a position to compete in the future.

In what world would you expect any club not in npl or recently added to npl such as cookers to immediately raise the level of the league?

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Originally Posted by jessepinkman

In what world would you expect any club not in npl or recently added to npl such as cookers to immediately raise the level of the league?

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Thats a question for NNSW I think,they are the ones expanding NPL.I was just siding with the argument that 2 tiers with genuine promotion/relegation is better long term to tick all the boxes youth football is supposed to deliver.

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Originally Posted by Oldy

We would have games worth watching. yawn

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:popcorn: