Rogic left for Europe so the posters claim unless they leave Australia is valid too.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
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Rogic left for Europe so the posters claim unless they leave Australia is valid too.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
I took the reference to having left for overseas as meaning not being here to participate in the academy structure (bypassing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
But apart from Rogic's very brief stint with "Nike Academy FC"...measured in months in 2011 (the year he turned 19), he was entirely domestically made, in spite of the Australian system neglecting what was obviously a very talented kid
You are still laboring this point when a couple of posts earlier it was explained to you that our 2 most recent examples of a player 'making it' were shown to have come from outside this elite group you are longing for.People are basing everything around scorelines when its one of the least important markers for evaluating individual players.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Didn't realise you meant your earlier comment toward me: Your claimQuote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Archie Goodwin played for Cooks Hill until he was 8...then joined the Jets system (they used to have a SAP team from u9s, along with Macquarie Football, etc for those who remember)
And, as I said before...Connor Metcalfe had moved to Melbourne City the year he turned 15 (where he played in their NPL setup. He is listed as having played youth football for South Cardiff, NNSW NTC and FFV NTC (NTC being national training centre)...not sure if being part of that allowed him to continue at South Cardiff, or if the Victorian NTC happaned at the same time as playing NPL down there...but let's say he did play for South Cardiff until 14.
I'm not sure that really supports your claim that either achieved success through local Div.2 clubs 🤷 maybe Connor more so than Goodwin
My claim is that talented kids exist in a lot of places outside of the 8 teams getting the 'best results' in each individual age groups.So I just dont want to focus everything on wins/tables and comp games and if more parents actually put their kids into situations where they got the most individual benefit we would see better players in the long run.
I didn't say anything contrary to that...I know lots of really talented kids not in the top tier...as I pointed out before, a lot are now stuck in tier III for the rest of the year...they would develop further, playing harder and faster opposition...no.1 reason why, pro/rel should be based in team, not on team averageQuote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
(IMO "blow out" score lines are often psychologically, i.e. a team just collapses after putting in a reasonable effort for most of a game, you can see it's often like a switch is flicked...but there is some body of evidence that suggests those blow outs cause harm: https://drstankovich.com/beyond-the-...outh-athletes/
So I'd say scores matter at least a bit)
Your refusal to read any of what people are saying in good faith is tiresome.Please remind me next time I begin to engage you on this to just not bother.Enjoy your crusade and I hope you win many trophies and prizes.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
I honestly feel the same way in interacting with you...but I've never attacked you personally, you have me thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
I don't believe you have comprehended anything I have said, at all...you can't seem to admit when you've made a mistake (look at your claiming Archie Goodwin playing community football until he was 8 meant anything at all) 🤦
It's not about trophies, or score lines, I can barely believe that has been a take away from anything I have said...it's about suggesting system improvements that will improve outcomes for kids 🤦
Beat them on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Again shows that by age rather than club is better
Nothing wrong with clubs forced to look at a whole of program rather than just focus on one team and let the others falter.
I was told by one Kahibah coach that they knew they weren't going to get in early June and so were just focusing on the second phase now in the bottom tier and had given teams nights off from training. Considering they finished 2 points short (8 if Adamstown had won their final 2) perhaps they could've kept trying to get more wins rather than giving up early on. Does a club who is happy to give up when it is still possible to get in deserve to be in the top 2 tiers.
It might be an interesting situation with referees this weekend with several clubs playing both days and therefore a lot of referees being unavailable.
Kahibah 14s and 15s combined phase 1 'wins' vs teams that went into Div 2 = 3 from 7.Probably not the indicator of dominance you were looking for.For the record I would rather Kahibah have stayed in Div 2 on account of Adamstowns inability to field all teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
If you look at Div 2 table Adamstown are ahead of Belswans, Southy, Cooks Hill and and equal with New Lambton. That tells me the Adamstowns 4 teams deserve to be there. If they were in Div 3 they would be racking up some floggingsQuote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Adamstown have played 4 rounds of games.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hacker
Cooks Hill have only played 2 rounds
South Cardiff have played 3 rounds
New Lambton 3 rounds
considering each round is worth max 15 points and the gap between rosebus and 7th is 7 points, I dont exactly think this is a great wrap on Adamstown.
From Previous Post:
Div 2
1. Midcoast ~ 30Pts
2. Weston ~ 28Pts
3. Charlestown ~ 23Pts
4. New Lambton ~ 21Pts
5. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts
6. Cooks Hill ~ 16Pts
7. South Cardiff ~ 14Pts
8. Belswans ~ 13Pts
Kahibah hs played twiceQuote:
Originally Posted by The Hacker
The scores for the age groups we're talking about
14s 4-0 W and 9-0 W
15s 4-1 W and 12-0 W
"Floggings" racking up anyway (they had the bye last week)
Kahibah might have beaten the 4 that stayed up only 3 times, but they also only lost twice.
Hearing a lot of issues across the grounds today with club refs in place, Northern pushing ahead despite warnings that this would happen. Be interesting to see what happens to those coaches and players that were sent off for ref abuse at different grounds.
I witnessed and have since heard about a few incidents as well.To be clear,any criticism has to be directed at the NNSW fixtures people,not the refs department.I am reliably informed they didnt want this to happen.Across the board I'd say at least 99% of the players and refs just did their best in an unfortunate situation but the behavior of parents and coaches has been fairly pathetic.It was clear some clubs and coaches were riled up before kickoff thinking they were going to get 'robbed' and conducted themselves in a disgraceful manner.Sadly,most of these people are the ones who are complaining week in week about about something else anyway so nothing is going to change.If NNSW really wanted to implement their zero tolerance policy heres the week to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
One ground I was at had qualified refs sitting in the stands and all the players wanting them to ref,but due to others stepping in and being afraid of a conflict they would rather a parent do it.By the time refs get to 15-18 they have been playing with and against kids across the whole spectrum for years.They are friends with them and sometimes teammates/ex-teammates(and soon to be teammates).To automatically think because 'this kid knows that kid' that they would cheat their way through a game is a very sad reflection on the adults in the stands.If there was a little more support for our refs instead of just openly accusing them of being cheats it would go a long way to getting more kids to want to ref,and keep current refs in the system so they get more experience and confidence.But after weekends like this people are just not going to want to do it and the same whingers will be there next week complaining there arent any good refs anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Just to clarify, was this NNSW not even appointing refs for games and leaving it up to the clubs to try and organise officials? if thats the case NNSW should be ashamedQuote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
I imagine this absence of refs is most deeply felt in Tier II and the battle for promotion back to Tier I?
I wonder how they work out the rostering each week (and how the system works)
I've heard anecdotally of lots of trained refs sitting in stands watching while that game goes without
NNSW fixture people scheduled a double header this weekend for most of the youth clubs (even though there is a spare weekend next weekend).With the vast majority of referees being players in the youth system it meant a huge amount of refs were unavailable all weekend.So you had no refs and double the fixtures.I think they appointed official referees to as many fixtures as possible but where there just werent any available clubs were told they had to organise their own.Some clubs used parents,some used official NNSW refs but they were associated with the club so it cause some issues.Cant blame the referees,the referees department or the clubs for this it is squarely on NNSW fixtures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Game_over
I did hear from a player in one team that the pre-game talk the coach was telling them already the ref was going to cheat, so of course the players already have that in their mind. No doubt parents also thinking the same thing and accusing them of cheating even when the correct decision is made.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Yes and refs not appointed because a lot of refs were playing on both days, something the referee association warned them would happen if they went ahead with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Game_over
My eldest and a majority of his mates that he referees with were not scheduled on any games at all over the weekend due to their own playing situation.Some stepped in and did games but were accused of being cheats,others were held out (by parents/coaches concerned with blowback) and then parents and club officials did the games and were also called cheats.I would rather a proper trained official call games every week regardless of his/her club allegiance than some parent who hasnt read a rule book.It made no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
I heard the same story and I trust the person that told me 100%.Pathetic from the coaches and parents if even half of their behavior is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Agree, SAPDAD...better to at least have someone familiar with the rules
On a side note, the exciting promotion battle in Div 2 (current standings)
Div 2
1. New Lambton ~ 46Pts (23MP)
2. Weston ~ 37Pts (16MP)
3. MidCoast ~ 36Pts (22MP)
4. Charlestown ~ 29Pts (21MP)
5. South Cardiff ~ 26Pts (21MP)
6. Cooks Hill ~ 22Pts (12MP)
7. Rosebuds ~ 21Pts (18MP)
8. Belswans ~ 17Pts (21MP)
Total matches will be 34/club
(7Rds x 5Ages ? u15s bye round): Noting Rosebuds will have 28 games total)
Cardiff has climbed the table significantly to be so close to the 4th "golden ticket"...just 3 points behind Charlestown
The real dark horse that might spoil those hopes for either is Cooks Hill, who simply seem to have not had any games played recently and stuck in just 12 matches played (Weston too, but they seem pretty safe even with just the 16 games played)
Great effort by New Lambton to collect 25 out of a possible 30 points over the weekend to sky rocket into first place. Especially the 13s who have had a tough season, getting 2 big wins. The double header weekend seemed to work in their favour.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
I think New Lambton have been the best example of the split competition so far.Not quite top 8 club but better than bottom 8.Where they are right in the middle but getting exposure to the top has worked for them and its been a steady improvement across the years.Im not saying keep it this way just to benefit them but its seems like theres a few strong programs in that middle group that can be the next one to do the same over the next few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Game_over
It does show the split does works quite well, and again games are closer rather than having big blow outs because the benefits aren't just for NL. I heard NL13s dropped a player from U14s this weekend (correct age) who scored almost all the goals for the 13s this weekend. Plenty of clubs have done it and it is well within the rules to do so and if they needed the 13s to get six points this weekend to secure promotion to Div1 then fair play to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
It can be viewed as a bad thing as well as clubs chase results over development but its damned if you do damned if you dont isnt it.I have no problem whatsoever with players who have been playing higher ages all year getting put back in for finals as clubs should be encouraged and rewarded for having players who are able to play up a year.It can backfire though so clubs need to manage these types of situations carefully.Its crazy to think that theres only a game or two left for a lot of the kids this season (apart from making finals) after the first half of the season seemed to drag on.Plenty on here have called for it but a home and away 2nd half of the year seems a no brainer for future years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Well won't be eligible for finals as per rules, but anyone who tries to tell me that coaches and clubs only care about results now because there is promotion and relegation are kidding themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Quote:
6.10. Youth Finals Eligibility
(a) The grade a Player has played the highest percentage of their Matches in is the lowest grade in
which they are eligible to participate in the Final’s Series.
Thanks for that info,I had no idea that was the requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
What I find frustrating is clubs playing goalkeepers down purely to secure points when a younger keeper is available to play up. I have no idea why NNSWF allow this to continually happen.
It is odd that Northern do allow an overage keeper to play down an age, when they have a keeper in the age below. Not allowed to be done for outfield players, why keepers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
I know a club that was denied the request when the correct age child and the age below were injured so instead of a kid playing down 1 age they had to bring a kid up 2 ages guess what the result was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
The kid playing down was only 2 months from being qualified. Double standards Northern
Northern has been a mess this year with policies and processes such as these not well thought out & no pragmatism to support safe and competitive football each weekend. Should policies such as these not be clear & thoughtful? Furthermore, greater structure to outline suspensions etc for u18s & senior football needs to be a focal point. I've heard many examples of u18s players copping suspensions via red cards or yellow card accumulated in seniors without being allowed to serve suspensions in those grades, but also not being able to safely play without fear of northern changing rules. Many examples of inconsistent application with many times young players missing the chance to play up, or down, & ultimately missing more potential games than the suspension actually indicated.
Policies should be aimed at maximising games. Of course players need to take punishment for incidences however over-punishing due to inconsistent understanding or development of policy is not a supportive environment for the development of young footballers.
Notwithstanding many younger refs are not totally familiar with the rules and are extrememly underdeveloped for the role that NNSW have placed them in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imyourhero
They are too scared to control the game. Then the players take the suspension through frustration.
I agree with zero tolerance/abuse but this needs to be balanced with knowledgeable & competent match control.
I cant disagree with your post more.I would overwhelmingly back any NNSW qualified referee to know more about the current laws and interpretations in a quiz with current coaches and players.You are so wrong and its not even close.Most major rules have changed in the last 10 years and the overwhelming majority of players,coaches and especially spectators have no idea they are now different.NNSW refs are coached to apply the current rules not how they were back in the day.Stop blaming refs for poor behaviour from players and officials.Quote:
Originally Posted by Addios
Id say its because its a specialised position and most age groups would not keep 2 keepers in their squad (where other positions can be filled easier).I dont think its a massive issue in the 15s to 18s if a keeper plays down,but ive seen clubs having to play JDL keepers in 13s which doesnt seem like the best idea if a keeper is legitimately injured.I have seen clubs be granted permission to play keepers down in the case of broken bones and longer term injuries which has never really presented an issue.For sure they seem to judge it on a case by case issue though which makes it hard to look consistent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Highest percentage is a pretty rubbery term in my opinion. If a kid is on the team sheet but doesn't step on the pitch does that mean they have 'played'? I suspect there are plenty of examples of players playing up that also have their name on their correct age team sheet with no intention of playing. I am always surprised by how many upsets there are in the finals series, and I suspect this issue has a bit to do with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy