16/17 HAL Round 26 | Jets v Gypos - F3 Derby #41 | Sun 9th Apr 2017 5:30pm

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Last year everyone slagged off Triff for being slow and lazy. He scored 9 goals and left. I liked Triff but he was never really loved by the majority of this forum.

Kokko comes in to play under Miller. Miller gets the sack, Kokko gets injured in pre season. By the time he comes back in we are in decent form so he struggles a bit for game time. He gets punched in the face by one of McKinnas mates and then we turn to crap as a team and didn't score for the last 6 games or something. He might not be good enough but he never got anywhere near a decent shot here.

He was in a new league and never got a decent run of games. He probably played with the same midfield players once or twice throughout the system. I'm not saying to resign him but in no way can you put much of the blame on our season on him alone. He would be middle of the pack when it comes to blame for this team this year.

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He that good he can't get into a side as bad as ours

FFS who keeping him out of the side??
Nordstrand
Haliti
Sawyer
Bymora

None of them are

Call a spade a spade

He just ain't that good

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

Also with Kokko would you be able to perform when your manager says to the press were open to offers for you? Rookie coach mistake 10/10

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A bloke with a bit of heart would rise to the challenge and prove his critics wrong.

Not just meekily accept it

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Originally Posted by MFKS

He that good he can't get into a side as bad as ours

FFS who keeping him out of the side??
Nordstrand
Haliti
Sawyer
Bymora

None of them are

Call a spade a spade

He just ain't that good

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Read my comment. i was saying that you can't complain about Triff being sold when everyone slagged him off. I don't know if Dunster slagged him off personally so he is entitled to his opinion on that point but the majority of fans didn't like how slow he was.

And then i stated that Kokko isn't the biggest problem in our squad. I even wrote that i wouldn't resign him for next year.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

A bloke with a bit of MONGREL would rise to the challenge and prove his critics wrong.

Not just meekily accept it

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Fixed

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Read my comment. i was saying that you can't complain about Triff being sold when everyone slagged him off. I don't know if Dunster slagged him off personally so he is entitled to his opinion on that point but the majority of fans didn't like how slow he was.

And then i stated that Kokko isn't the biggest problem in our squad. I even wrote that i wouldn't resign him for next year.

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But you are saying he hasn't had a decent shot at it

Yes Miller going and Jones coming has hampered him
Injuries haven't helped

BUT

He has had more than enough opportunity to show what he has to offer

He has not had a huge bar to jump based on the calibre of his rivals in the squad

So he has had more than enough of a shot but hasn't delivered

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

Also with Kokko would you be able to perform when your manager says to the press were open to offers for you? Rookie coach mistake 10/10

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A professional footballer that cannot stay calm under pressure should be playing state league not A-league. If Kokko was any good he'd bang in some goals and say **** you to the coach and anyone that didn't believe in him.
Admittedly the service to him was poor as well and that's not Jones - that's the fact we don't really have anyone in the middle that can hold the ball up or direct play - other than Lei Lei - but few here actually rate the bloke.

Again, fans are making far too many excuses for players that are over paid and failing to produce on the park when it counts.

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Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8

being satisfied with a coach who has led us to a wooden spoon isn't embracing mediocrity, seriously?? just because Jones is a local and Stubbins wasn't doesn't mean there is any reason for misguided loyalties here, Jones has taken a reasonably performing group of players starting to believe in themselves and playing some decent football, that could have seen them actually a chance of snatching a finals berth, and turned them into a dire group of lacklustre can't attack can't defend easybeats in the past few months, most of it through his mismanagement of selections gamedays, to the point the players stopped believing - if that isn't the sign of a coach who has failed what is the benchmark???

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Jones missed the finals. Miller missed the finals. Both failed in my opinion in their first season. Miller had a huge mid season slump and some decent results at the back half of the year to pull up the table slightly. Jones fell off early with some injuries, had a purple patch to move within the 6 and then fell off horribly at the back half of the year. Yet many were happy to give Miller another year and not Jones? I just don't get this. Are people certain he would have even had us in the 6 at any point during this season? Is it because he could talk the talk? Both coaches were/are pretty sub par when it comes to professionalism anyway. The amateur culture which surrounds the club I feel goes much deeper then just the head coach. I'd love to watch a Jets training session in full compared to a Sydney training session in full. Not just head coach roles, but assistants, players attitudes etc.

Triff > Kokko. Triff took his chance. Put some goals away early. I think we all forget Miller slagged Triff out as well.. Or did we forget that? Triff came out and scored more goals. Imagine if he'd stayed another year and got "adjusted" to the A league like everyone goes on about. Isn't this what people argue about when defending Kokko for the slow start?
Kokko has had more than enough opportunities at this level. Be farked if he gets the whole season to "adapt". We do not have that luxury like other clubs.

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Originally Posted by Wilso8948

Jones missed the finals. Miller missed the finals. Both failed in my opinion in their first season. Miller had a huge mid season slump and some decent results at the back half of the year to pull up the table slightly. Jones fell off early with some injuries, had a purple patch to move within the 6 and then fell off horribly at the back half of the year. Yet many were happy to give Miller another year and not Jones? I just don't get this. Are people certain he would have even had us in the 6 at any point during this season? Is it because he could talk the talk? Both coaches were/are pretty sub par when it comes to professionalism anyway. The amateur culture which surrounds the club I feel goes much deeper then just the head coach. I'd love to watch a Jets training session in full compared to a Sydney training session in full. Not just head coach roles, but assistants, players attitudes etc.

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Miller came in on the back of Stubbins and no ownership. He also had a mid-season slump which he rectified with two astute signings and pulled the team back in the right direction when needed. Jones has progressively got worse with nothing positive to show as the season wore on, setting some unwanted records in the process. Miller won more games. Miller didn't win us another spoon. You can't see the difference? No-one has ever said Miller was perfect. But he had us on the right track.

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

Miller came in on the back of Stubbins and no ownership. He also had a mid-season slump which he rectified with two astute signings and pulled the team back in the right direction when needed. Jones has progressively got worse with nothing positive to show as the season wore on, setting some unwanted records in the process. Miller won more games. Miller didn't win us another spoon. You can't see the difference? No-one has ever said Miller was perfect. But he had us on the right track.

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I'm no advocate for Jones or Miller. But what's to say Miller would have done any better than Jones this year (I'm aware we are at the bottom). What's to say Miller would have had us in the 6 midway through last year? Jones had some injuries at the start of the season, made some changes and had us winning games at one point. Who's to say signing Bridge in January or any other signings that may have fallen over behind closed doors wouldn't have seen us do better. I believe this had a large impact on our back half finish.
I just feel as if there is so many other factors/what ifs/things that need fixing beyond the coach. Do we change the coach now? and still have the rot in the background? Do we fix the rot and make do with an average coach? I'm just throwing out some other points of view that I think a lot of people are not considering. Something that the member is trying to do in amongst all the other shit he babbles on with.

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

Miller came in on the back of Stubbins and no ownership. He also had a mid-season slump which he rectified with two astute signings and pulled the team back in the right direction when needed. Jones has progressively got worse with nothing positive to show as the season wore on, setting some unwanted records in the process. Miller won more games. Miller didn't win us another spoon. You can't see the difference? No-one has ever said Miller was perfect. But he had us on the right track.

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I'm glad you cleared that up. Here I was thinking the players conceded too many goals in defence and failed to score enough in attack. But it seems that afterall it was Jones fault for all the missed one on one tackles, the wayward passes, and the complete inability of our players to find the back of the net when within scoring range.

Also, Millers record stands for last season not this season. Unless you think the quality of the opposition has decreased since Millers time ?

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

Miller came in on the back of Stubbins and no ownership. He also had a mid-season slump which he rectified with two astute signings and pulled the team back in the right direction when needed. Jones has progressively got worse with nothing positive to show as the season wore on, setting some unwanted records in the process. Miller won more games. Miller didn't win us another spoon. You can't see the difference? No-one has ever said Miller was perfect. But he had us on the right track.

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No he didn't

Point is none of them have

Both have achieved **** all

Issue is that we need some stability
We needed it when Ledman came in but Miller ****ed it for us by his incompetence

Now we are at the stage where it is imperative that the club backs Jones here

No it's or buts about it

If we can't back Jones now we need a new owner

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No he didn't

Point is none of them have

Both have achieved **** all

Issue is that we need some stability
We needed it when Ledman came in but Miller ****ed it for us by his incompetence

Now we are at the stage where it is imperative that the club backs Jones here

No it's or buts about it

If we can't back Jones now we need a new owner

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I hope for god your faith in Jones works out. I cant see anything happening but him getting sacked but If the club backs Jones I hope it works cause I think the club may be on its last chance with a large group of the fans

**** this, im gonna throw JP in there for some blame. If he had stayed and kept miller in check we wouldnt be having this abortion of a conversation.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

I'm glad you cleared that up. Here I was thinking the players conceded too many goals in defence and failed to score enough in attack. But it seems that afterall it was Jones fault for all the missed one on one tackles, the wayward passes, and the complete inability of our players to find the back of the net when within scoring range.

Also, Millers record stands for last season not this season. Unless you think the quality of the opposition has decreased since Millers time ?

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Ok, so you're in the 'coach has no responsibility/role' camp. Someone mentioned Jones & Miller both performed the same, I was simply pointing out some differences. And the quality of the comp certainly hasn't increased from last season to this enough to suggest Jones has had a harder gig.

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Originally Posted by Wilso8948

I'm no advocate for Jones or Miller. But what's to say Miller would have done any better than Jones this year (I'm aware we are at the bottom). What's to say Miller would have had us in the 6 midway through last year? Jones had some injuries at the start of the season, made some changes and had us winning games at one point. Who's to say signing Bridge in January or any other signings that may have fallen over behind closed doors wouldn't have seen us do better. I believe this had a large impact on our back half finish.
I just feel as if there is so many other factors/what ifs/things that need fixing beyond the coach. Do we change the coach now? and still have the rot in the background? Do we fix the rot and make do with an average coach? I'm just throwing out some other points of view that I think a lot of people are not considering. Something that the member is trying to do in amongst all the other shit he babbles on with.

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I believe Miller would have done better. He came in at a difficult time, with no backing, and lifted us off the bottom. He brought some element of competitiveness back. His mid-season signings last year were positive. He signed players this season presumably with an idea in mind of how to play them, and playing wise, pre-season went reasonably well, FFA Cup aside.

The longer Jones was in charge and made his mark on the side, the worse we got. Can someone at least highlight a few of Jones' positives? I'm not even seeing one.

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

Ok, so you're in the 'coach has no responsibility/role' camp. Someone mentioned Jones & Miller both performed the same, I was simply pointing out some differences. And the quality of the comp certainly hasn't increased from last season to this enough to suggest Jones has had a harder gig.

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Not at all. You have spent most of the season ripping into Jones and constantly making concessions for the players who at the end of the day are not performing.
I don't think Jones is the answer but until we clear out the shit - and it's like 20 players worth of it - why would we bother wasting money on someone else ? No coach will win the comp with this squad.

Hence, keep Jones, do some short term signings / experiments while ridding the roaster of the over paid under performing state leaguers we have on the books.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Not at all. You have spent most of the season ripping into Jones and constantly making concessions for the players who at the end of the day are not performing.
I don't think Jones is the answer but until we clear out the shit - and it's like 20 players worth of it - why would we bother wasting money on someone else ? No coach will win the comp with this squad.

Hence, keep Jones, do some short term signings / experiments while ridding the roaster of the over paid under performing state leaguers we have on the books.

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Not once have I defended the players. I want the off-contract players gone as much as Jones. I simply said Miller would have made a better fist of the squad, but I certainly don't have high hopes for them.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Hence, keep Jones, do some short term signings / experiments while ridding the roaster of the over paid under performing state leaguers we have on the books.

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Fine, let's do this. Doesn't answer the question of who we are going to replace them with because we don't seem to be using money outside the cap and we sure as hell aren't going to get anyone better than the state leaguers we have without doing so.

Let's just face it - we are forever destined to battle it out for bottom of the table with the Mariners because the PFA and FFA have forced a false economy where shit players have to get paid professional wages despite being absolute shit at their jobs.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Not at all. You have spent most of the season ripping into Jones and constantly making concessions for the players who at the end of the day are not performing.
I don't think Jones is the answer but until we clear out the shit - and it's like 20 players worth of it - why would we bother wasting money on someone else ? No coach will win the comp with this squad.

Hence, keep Jones, do some short term signings / experiments while ridding the roaster of the over paid under performing state leaguers we have on the books.

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With your plan were still gambling on Jones being able to A: sign decent players. B: Players wanting to actually play for Jones. C: Jones not losing the dressing room again. D: Jones playing people out of position when players for that role are fit C: Jones actually having more then one tactic for when teams and they will figure us that and stop whatever way we are scoring.