2021 Premier Club SAP

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

it appears more changes in the JDL coaching space with a club recently losing there TD after being hung out to dry by one of his coaches, can anyone confirm?

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Club? Geez there'd be a few that would know already.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

It already exists.Its called the U/12 Interdistrict comp.You should sign your kid up for that if thats what youre after.

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There's more than one age group in JDL

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

There's more than one age group in JDL

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Absolutely.But is the discussion point here people wanting 9 year olds battling for trophies before they can kick with both feet?Or 10 year olds losing semis because we dont care all that much about offside at that age?Because again NNSW have,for now, decided the age that points and finals and trophies matter is 13's.If parents are that thirsty for success for their kids then surely get them in an ID comp with those incentives from whatever age they can.I just feel like we as parents are forever trying to make this program good for us rather than the kids and it just bothers me.The first crop of these kids havent even graduated from the program and people are on here carrying on about not having enough desire or passion.I have no idea where they get that from because the kids I watch every weekend across many age groups all try their hardest to win.
(and just to be clear im not accusing you of that).

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Absolutely.But is the discussion point here people wanting 9 year olds battling for trophies before they can kick with both feet?Or 10 year olds losing semis because we dont care all that much about offside at that age?Because again NNSW have,for now, decided the age that points and finals and trophies matter is 13's.If parents are that thirsty for success for their kids then surely get them in an ID comp with those incentives from whatever age they can.I just feel like we as parents are forever trying to make this program good for us rather than the kids and it just bothers me.The first crop of these kids havent even graduated from the program and people are on here carrying on about not having enough desire or passion.I have no idea where they get that from because the kids I watch every weekend across many age groups all try their hardest to win.
(and just to be clear im not accusing you of that).

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Happier the way it is. No points. Kids can play as fast as they like without the pts.

They have enough competition between each other as it is.

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Originally Posted by Jim

They have enough competition between each other as it is.

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This is a really good point Jim.

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

it appears more changes in the JDL coaching space with a club recently losing there TD after being hung out to dry by one of his coaches, can anyone confirm?

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U gonna fill us in on the news super coach? Who been hung by which coach?

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Absolutely.But is the discussion point here people wanting 9 year olds battling for trophies before they can kick with both feet?Or 10 year olds losing semis because we dont care all that much about offside at that age?Because again NNSW have,for now, decided the age that points and finals and trophies matter is 13's.If parents are that thirsty for success for their kids then surely get them in an ID comp with those incentives from whatever age they can.I just feel like we as parents are forever trying to make this program good for us rather than the kids and it just bothers me.The first crop of these kids havent even graduated from the program and people are on here carrying on about not having enough desire or passion.I have no idea where they get that from because the kids I watch every weekend across many age groups all try their hardest to win.
(and just to be clear im not accusing you of that).

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Someone asked a question if it was worth having points in the final stage and then seemed their reasoning was about development. Not all development is about technical stuff.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

Someone asked a question if it was worth having points in the final stage and then seemed their reasoning was about development. Not all development is about technical stuff.

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My question is where the best coaches at? If my kid gonna get better where he to go?

No1 talk about that. All this club that club no scores no ladder but where the best coaches??

How do the kids feel? Would a little comp over a weekend or 2 at the end make them happy? Is that something they’d like to do?

Devils advocate, can it be a worse idea than the cage matches?
Only 1-2 weeks of the program, at the end. Bit of fun for the kids. Parents get to go to work the next day and pop on their local forum and tell us who won.

I’d be interested to see it trialled with maybe the 2 older age groups. Argument being that it’s a bit of a competitive environment to help them prepare for competitive matches in NPL Youth. Would also be good to see, and would potentially validate the no points/scores approach to this development/elite league. If clubs stick to their fundamentals and try to play out as they normally would, it could be good. If they resort to sticking 2 players high and long ball to them or the game being a mess, it kind of validates the idea to not score and compete for points. (Would you even introduce the concept of offside? Just to delineate it from what they’ve been doing)

Think there’s more reasons not to do it, kind of sends mixed messages too. But, not the worst idea.

It’s an interesting point as to the purpose of this comp/league/kick around. If it’s about their football development and journey, then on paper, I wouldn’t be opposed to some kind of hybrid set of rules between SAP and NPL youth. Eg maybe introduce offside in the older groups. An attempt to prepare and transition them to NPL. (Do many teams “exploit” offside? Would there be many offsides in a game as is?

Or do we not really have a problem going from small fields, no offside, no points etc to big field, offside rules, points. Let NPL a youth clubs educate their players in pre-season.

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

How do the kids feel? Would a little comp over a weekend or 2 at the end make them happy? Is that something they’d like to do?

Devils advocate, can it be a worse idea than the cage matches?
Only 1-2 weeks of the program, at the end. Bit of fun for the kids. Parents get to go to work the next day and pop on their local forum and tell us who won.

I’d be interested to see it trialled with maybe the 2 older age groups. Argument being that it’s a bit of a competitive environment to help them prepare for competitive matches in NPL Youth. Would also be good to see, and would potentially validate the no points/scores approach to this development/elite league. If clubs stick to their fundamentals and try to play out as they normally would, it could be good. If they resort to sticking 2 players high and long ball to them or the game being a mess, it kind of validates the idea to not score and compete for points. (Would you even introduce the concept of offside? Just to delineate it from what they’ve been doing)

Think there’s more reasons not to do it, kind of sends mixed messages too. But, not the worst idea.

It’s an interesting point as to the purpose of this comp/league/kick around. If it’s about their football development and journey, then on paper, I wouldn’t be opposed to some kind of hybrid set of rules between SAP and NPL youth. Eg maybe introduce offside in the older groups. An attempt to prepare and transition them to NPL. (Do many teams “exploit” offside? Would there be many offsides in a game as is?

Or do we not really have a problem going from small fields, no offside, no points etc to big field, offside rules, points. Let NPL a youth clubs educate their players in pre-season.

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Offside is already in the 11's and 12's & in 9's and 10's game leaders are supposed to give free kicks for blatant offsides.

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

Parents get to go to work the next day and pop on their local forum and tell us who won.

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The problem is this is the only reason it would exist.The kids play to win and learn,the good coaches coach to win the right way,parents for the most part just want to brag.We dont need more of it.Also,with more at stake the behavior towards refs and players will only get worse and im not interested in any of that for my kid.Hes lucky at the moment his coach is amazing and more interested in the process rather than the result and hes a better footballer because of it.He'll get plenty of heartbreak and glory from next year on.Im fine for him to wait til then.

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

The coaches club is in the last 32 of the FFA Cup

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down to Magic, Olympic, Weston

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

How do the kids feel? Would a little comp over a weekend or 2 at the end make them happy? Is that something they’d like to do?

Devils advocate, can it be a worse idea than the cage matches?
Only 1-2 weeks of the program, at the end. Bit of fun for the kids. Parents get to go to work the next day and pop on their local forum and tell us who won.

I’d be interested to see it trialled with maybe the 2 older age groups. Argument being that it’s a bit of a competitive environment to help them prepare for competitive matches in NPL Youth. Would also be good to see, and would potentially validate the no points/scores approach to this development/elite league. If clubs stick to their fundamentals and try to play out as they normally would, it could be good. If they resort to sticking 2 players high and long ball to them or the game being a mess, it kind of validates the idea to not score and compete for points. (Would you even introduce the concept of offside? Just to delineate it from what they’ve been doing)

Think there’s more reasons not to do it, kind of sends mixed messages too. But, not the worst idea.

It’s an interesting point as to the purpose of this comp/league/kick around. If it’s about their football development and journey, then on paper, I wouldn’t be opposed to some kind of hybrid set of rules between SAP and NPL youth. Eg maybe introduce offside in the older groups. An attempt to prepare and transition them to NPL. (Do many teams “exploit” offside? Would there be many offsides in a game as is?

Or do we not really have a problem going from small fields, no offside, no points etc to big field, offside rules, points. Let NPL a youth clubs educate their players in pre-season.

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In the La Liga futures tournament they have an offside line that is basically the edge of the penalty area and you can only be offside beyond that line. Interesting concept

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Originally Posted by Jim

down to Magic, Olympic, Weston

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It's magic

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

it appears more changes in the JDL coaching space with a club recently losing there TD after being hung out to dry by one of his coaches, can anyone confirm?

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How does a coach hang a TD out to dry?

I watched Jaffa’s vs Magic in the 11’s this morning.

2 very competitive games. Both great to watch.

One of them the was the first goalless game of SAP/JDL I have seen in 3 years.

Did anyone got to the first gala day weekend?

If so, how did it go? Any pain points? What worked well?

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Originally Posted by Aegon

Did anyone got to the first gala day weekend?

If so, how did it go? Any pain points? What worked well?

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I spoke to a parent whos son played in the 12's yesterday.He said there was a fair gap in talent between the Newcastle NPL teams and the rest.He said they had some last minute changes due to the covid rules but otherwise went as well as expected.

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

it appears more changes in the JDL coaching space with a club recently losing there TD after being hung out to dry by one of his coaches, can anyone confirm?

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And said coach is a disease. bad luck for the TD

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Originally Posted by Eastwest

And said coach is a disease. bad luck for the TD

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Sound like Tragic

I bet ya a middy we all no the coach.

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Originally Posted by YewYew

Sound like Tragic

I bet ya a middy we all no the coach.

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:thumbsup:

Lad at the local club has the choice next year between Playing U12 JDL or U13 NPL. Has played up an age before which was well suited but not this year.
Physical attributes no problem, skill level fine, and quick.
Current club wont do it but another club will. He's seems happy enough where he is but is busting at the bit to get to the big field and pts.

Is there any benefit to jump early into 13s?

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Originally Posted by JustMe

Lad at the local club has the choice next year between Playing U12 JDL or U13 NPL. Has played up an age before which was well suited but not this year.
Physical attributes no problem, skill level fine, and quick.
Current club wont do it but another club will. He's seems happy enough where he is but is busting at the bit to get to the big field and pts.

Is there any benefit to jump early into 13s?

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In my opinion it’s completely dependent on the individual.
Are they completely dominating 11’s?
Are they physically more advanced than most other kids?
What advantage will they get from playing up and age?
Would they benefit from another year of no results, meaning they may have a bit more creative flexibility?
They’ll need to understand they’ll get less touches per game as well.

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Originally Posted by JustMe

Lad at the local club has the choice next year between Playing U12 JDL or U13 NPL. Has played up an age before which was well suited but not this year.
Physical attributes no problem, skill level fine, and quick.
Current club wont do it but another club will. He's seems happy enough where he is but is busting at the bit to get to the big field and pts.

Is there any benefit to jump early into 13s?

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Where ever the better coaching and environment is, thats where id play him.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

In my opinion it’s completely dependent on the individual.
Are they completely dominating 11’s?
Are they physically more advanced than most other kids?
What advantage will they get from playing up and age?
Would they benefit from another year of no results, meaning they may have a bit more creative flexibility?
They’ll need to understand they’ll get less touches per game as well.

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Good points. That last one is very true. Wondering myself if its beneficial. Its not a huge thing just an option to go with.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Where ever the better coaching and environment is, thats where id play him.

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Very fair point. not sure at this stage

I’d say play NPL, if his skills are good and it’s a mid/top NPL club with good rep.
If he looks out of place or JDL is easy for him, play up.
JDL seems great for development and affording players conditions to improve their fundamentals, but once that’s under control, there’s a lot to learn from playing NPL. An extra year with NPL coaching (assumed good quality), competitive games, longer games, tactical awareness, comradery that develops as a result of playing for points.
If the NPL club has a good rep and he’s not gonna be benched all the time, should consider it.

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Originally Posted by JustMe

Lad at the local club has the choice next year between Playing U12 JDL or U13 NPL. Has played up an age before which was well suited but not this year.
Physical attributes no problem, skill level fine, and quick.
Current club wont do it but another club will. He's seems happy enough where he is but is busting at the bit to get to the big field and pts.

Is there any benefit to jump early into 13s?

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Depends which club it is, is it a strong club that will help challenge or develop him or is it a weak club looking for some good players that may not help him out. If it is the former certainly do it if latter leave him where he is if it too is at a good club. If at a good club you might mention that he is going to play U13s at another club and they might then push him up, that's what a U12s TSP player did at their current club.

Ok so he stands out in JDL? Will he stand out in the 13s NPL team or just make up the numbers? I know plenty of JDL kids that can jump to a 13s NPL team and be just another player or even some that would walk into the lower 13s teams. Some JDL teams even beat the lower 13s NPL teams. Lots of the bottom clubs will offer younger talents spots in NPL over JDL 12s just to lure them over and parents think it’s a huge achievement. Like others said if it’s at a top club yes, bottom club then you will end up regretting it. Seen it happen in older ages and won’t be much different in younger ages.
Is it the kid that can’t wait for the points table or the dad? 👀

What are the stand out benefits for playing at 13's early?

My young lad (in this years 11's) was spoken to about playing for his local club's 13's team next year.
I couldn't think of any justification for him doing so, he's not the biggest lad but he's strong technically.
He currently has an excellent coach and looks forward to every training session and game.
My opinion is that he will benefit from another 12 months of technical & physical development.

By taking that extra step up to NPL 13's competition there is pressure on to win games that in some cases may stifle the opportunity to try new things and risk them going wrong in a game situation, there is also the risk of less playing time (bigger squads) & less time with the ball.

I'd also heard on the grapevine that several of the boys in this years 12's TSP playing 13's NPL seemed to be less technically proficient than their 12's JDL counterparts.

I may be missing something, but I am not in a rush to get him up the age groups as I think this stage of learning the game is essential.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

What are the stand out benefits for playing at 13's early?

My young lad (in this years 11's) was spoken to about playing for his local club's 13's team next year.
I couldn't think of any justification for him doing so, he's not the biggest lad but he's strong technically.
He currently has an excellent coach and looks forward to every training session and game.
My opinion is that he will benefit from another 12 months of technical & physical development.

By taking that extra step up to NPL 13's competition there is pressure on to win games that in some cases may stifle the opportunity to try new things and risk them going wrong in a game situation, there is also the risk of less playing time (bigger squads) & less time with the ball.

I'd also heard on the grapevine that several of the boys in this years 12's TSP playing 13's NPL seemed to be less technically proficient than their 12's JDL counterparts.

I may be missing something, but I am not in a rush to get him up the age groups as I think this stage of learning the game is essential.

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It’s pretty simple let’s not over complicate it.

If the kid is ready then he’s ready regardless of age.

There are 12s playing 13s this year and are killing it, it’s been great for them. There are also some who weren’t ready and are struggling.

The TSP shouldn’t be used as a reference, there are some there that absolutely should be playing NPL, there are some who aren’t ready yet and there are some who shouldn’t be in the TSP program at all.

If they’re dominating their own age group and are physically ready then playing up an age won’t be an issue. There’s a boy playing up in 12s JDL now who is killing it and is one of the best players in the 12s JDL, if he played in the 12s again next year he would be bored, not challenged at all and would destroy other teams come game day, no one wins.

It’s all about the individual and if they’re ready.. let’s not try and do the one size fits all approach, you’ll only stifle the progress.

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Originally Posted by Isthisforreal

It’s pretty simple let’s not over complicate it.

If the kid is ready then he’s ready regardless of age.

There are 12s playing 13s this year and are killing it, it’s been great for them. There are also some who weren’t ready and are struggling.

The TSP shouldn’t be used as a reference, there are some there that absolutely should be playing NPL, there are some who aren’t ready yet and there are some who shouldn’t be in the TSP program at all.

If they’re dominating their own age group and are physically ready then playing up an age won’t be an issue. There’s a boy playing up in 12s JDL now who is killing it and is one of the best players in the 12s JDL, if he played in the 12s again next year he would be bored, not challenged at all and would destroy other teams come game day, no one wins.

It’s all about the individual and if they’re ready.. let’s not try and do the one size fits all approach, you’ll only stifle the progress.

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I saw 1 lad coast through 12s this year. Seemed like a lost year. IMO he would have easily been more challenged learning the craft of on a larger field in 13s this year. Seeing him is what bought this up to the other kid.

It's not a big deal but a good discussion point at this age group. If 12s were played on a bigger field i think there'd be less need to go anywhere.

Mentioning TSP, many who played up this went into this. Wonder if they would choose the same if everyone stayed 12s.

I bet you don’t know who it is !
But he is leaving to join his under the bus TD has announced it already !

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

I bet you don’t know who it is !
But he is leaving to join his under the bus TD has announced it already !

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Someone who liked the last TD. hmmm

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Originally Posted by Jim

Someone who liked the last TD. hmmm

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Unfortunately this sounds messy.

Politics, egos & agendas getting in the way of development of the kids.

What is the bet that players want to follow the coach or TD? It'll probably result in some changes to the JDL landscape.

Coach has been advised by new club that can’t take kids as there is an agreement.
I’m also told the TD had no relationship with players or parents so why would they follow Makes no sense.
Which way do you run in a storm ?

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

Coach has been advised by new club that can’t take kids as there is an agreement.
I’m also told the TD had no relationship with players or parents so why would they follow Makes no sense.
Which way do you run in a storm ?

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Would be a "can't offer kids spots before trials", if he has a great player the TD isn't going to say no just not allow the coach to say he has a spot first.

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Originally Posted by SAP SUPER COACH

Coach has been advised by new club that can’t take kids as there is an agreement.
I’m also told the TD had no relationship with players or parents so why would they follow Makes no sense.
Which way do you run in a storm ?

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New club sounds like it has some integrity. BUT, if the parents want to follow it's hard to knock back the better ones.

And as Aegon said, pity this has to happen in kids football. Theyll still all play each other regardless of colours.

What is the current ruling of clubs offering spots already to current JDL players from different clubs?

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

What is the current ruling of clubs offering spots already to current JDL players from different clubs?

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Ruling? There is no ruling, parents will take kids to whichever club they want and not much you can do to stop them.
On the other matter you guys make a big deal out of the smallest crap. So what a coach left a club 😱 its football that’s what happens regularly, stop making a big deal out of it. Players and coaches will swap teams it’s not a big drama, stop trying to create one because you guys are bored and need something to talk about.

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Originally Posted by Doopche

Ruling? There is no ruling, parents will take kids to whichever club they want and not much you can do to stop them.
On the other matter you guys make a big deal out of the smallest crap. So what a coach left a club �� its football that’s what happens regularly, stop making a big deal out of it. Players and coaches will swap teams it’s not a big drama, stop trying to create one because you guys are bored and need something to talk about.

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I really don't care if players swap clubs etc as it happens everywhere. I was generally asking as i have heard there is a certain date that clubs can only offer players outside there club a spot in there JDL program if that said player is currently playing for another JDL club.