People can't complain about FA taking $14 when clubs are charging a lot more than they need to be. Dropping the $14 doesn't make it now much cheaper to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMe
Not just in community as well.
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People can't complain about FA taking $14 when clubs are charging a lot more than they need to be. Dropping the $14 doesn't make it now much cheaper to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustMe
Not just in community as well.
I'm from one of the bigger clubs that's fee are not as high as the clubs you mentioned but higher than most. I have been around in these circles for some time now and believe what we are charging which has been the same for the last 3 seasons is fair and reasonable. I think it is highly irresponsible of David Eland and his team at NNSW to post all the fees without going out to clubs and asking what is actually included, I will admit they put a small disclaimer at the bottom recognising that they have no idea what the figures include. I have no idea what Valentine and NL include in their fees but certainly know what we do at our club and although will look high at 1st glance it is fair and reasonable. What it doesn't say is that entry level kids at our club play up to 10 competition games more than any other club that I know of and have done so for years, they get a personalised playing shirt as well as socks, very nice trophy and presentation day. Coaches don't have to drag there equipment to from the training park each week its all their for them to access each week. If you are in the Macquarie football area you have to pay a council fee of $40 per youth player to play and train which also appears in each clubs fees, so when you take that out there is actually 1 club by the figures posted is either subsidising 1/2 that fee or have some other arrangement which is good on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
There is one club I see who's registration fee was $175 yet they have to pay $65 for uniform when they go to the registration day. Other clubs have an additional fee for presentation day's, others make you sell chocolate boxes. Which none of this is wrong it's just the way each club operates but it is not reflected on the list of fee's David and his team has put out. Although parents and kids like to play close to home paying registration fees is like anything else in most cases you get what you pay for and if you don't like the product you are free to go and try a different product.
So in all the list irresponsibly put out to all is not a true apples for apples comparison and I personally don't know of a community club that doesn't have hard working volunteers that give up many hours of their busy lives to help provide a place for kids to play football at and i am sure everyone of them would love to have no cost associated with it. And being honest the whole article in most cases looks like a pot shot at all those hardworking volunteers.
I'm still waiting for the fee comparison on JDL, NL1 and NPL clubs to come out from David Eland and his team which is a competition that NNSW have complete control over yet some u9's I here are paying nearly $2k but once again I am not sure what is included in that amount but from my clubs point of view I think the true cost for a kid that age in the JDL competition is between the $700 and $800 including everything except boots and pads.
As I said earlier, my son was at a miniroos club that was $180 all inclusive and gave the breakdown of where all costs went.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
If I read that list and saw my club charging $200+ I think I am well within my rights to ask for an explanation of where fees go - because they should be provided up front.
I 100% agree with this. Considering these competitions have a much heavier involvement from NNWSF they should be providing comparisons for all of these competitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
There will of course be variance. For example my sons JDL club charge $1200 another I know charges over $1500, however the higher price club trains at LMRFF once a week whereas we don't.
There will be other differences obviously but the onus should be on clubs to explain how and where that money is spent.
When we were last provided a breakdown of fees distribution:
$237 goes to Northern
$14 to Football Australia
$900+ to the club
Of this: $250-300 on uniform & another $200-300 on TD/coaching costs. Lots of other little incidental costs like Electricity, Water, council fees.
In the end just like in society supply and demand kicks in, the majority of the big clubs that are charging the most money have parents and kids kicking their doors down to pay the money for what they believe is a better product. If parents are willing to pay the money, then what is the issue. If parents are not happy to pay the exorbitant amounts then don't and go play somewhere else where the fees are more reasonable and supply and demand will kick in and the big clubs will bring their fees down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
So in conclusion its actually the parents that are forcing up JDL and Youth costs LOL, stop paying the ridiculously fees clubs will respond when the kids stop coming.
In the end just like in society supply and demand kicks in, the majority of the big clubs that are charging the most money have parents and kids kicking their doors down to pay the money for what they believe is a better product. If parents are willing to pay the money, then what is the issue. If parents are not happy to pay the exorbitant amounts then don't and go play somewhere else where the fees are more reasonable and supply and demand will kick in and the big clubs will bring their fees down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
So in conclusion its actually the parents that are forcing up JDL and Youth costs LOL, stop paying the ridiculously fees clubs will respond when the kids stop coming.
I saw magic under 6 and under 7 were free with the active kids voucher
My sons JDL club charges $1150 and that includes one night a week at Speers Pt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
My other sons community club collect $81 on top of the FA/NNSW/Macquarie taxes for U5-8. Of that, $41 goes to LMCC charges. The remaining $40 pay the myriad of other consumables required. If they have enough to shout the committee a can of coke at the end of the season from that pot of money I’d be very surprised.
We charge $100 with no add on, other than shorts/socks. We used to include that but parents have asked us to take it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
Other than a few clubs, and most of the high charging entry level fees are from "premier clubs" (read into that what you will), community football is not expensive.
So clubs have no social responsibility to keep things reasonable?Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
Again, the high changing community clubs in Macquarie and Newcastle are clubs with Premier teams. Screams of funding the premier system which is disgusting.
NNSW only fault with their release of this info is that it should have been done at the start of rego. not at the conclusion.
I was talking to Macquarie about this today. Not disclosing the extra $65 at rego is deceitful at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
I spoke with NNSW today and they do not understand how the timing of this information was out of line. I'm all for this being posted publicly, but it needs to be prior to rego (or at the start) so parents can ask questions.
Our rego is $100, but we may not include what some parents want. They should have the opportunity to ask questions. Now is too late.
From U8 up its $220 and players keep their kits (we dont
I had a public rant yesterday that caused phone calls from higher than NNSW today. NNSW believe they have compared apples with apples, this is a big issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
Again, the information put out is fine, if its done at the start of rego.
Clubs all do things differently, thats OK, let parents find the right fit. Throwing the handgrenade now was wrong.
Dont hold your breath on that one. The shot at community was a response to the herald article going at JDL fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
This is an ahole comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
Its not supposed to be a ripoff societal business. Its supposed to be a healthy viable option for ALL families to participate without being ripped off for a change.
Clubs can still sign the best without being thieving grubs.
Its the arrogance and thieving from clubs and this chump thinks its ok. Your stance on this is a disgrace to the game.
Its not a shot just at exorbitant community fees but JDL as well and rightly so.
We have 1 muppet here saying its ok to charge what the people as much as they want which is stupid for a sport we are trying to grow in numbers.
Lets have a capped system for all junior formats and then if parents want to add money to a club or extra training they can.
$900 to the club?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
That is why some damn good players dont come to this extortionate system.
Seriously people - ask your club what you get for your registration fees.
I know of a large club paying:
$40,000 for their grounds in Newcastle over the course of a year
$25,000 for the presentation day (incl trophies, rides, food etc)
$**,000 for maintenance and improvements (where Council are not fulfilling)
$80,000pa for new uniforms every year that the kids keep (because they cannot find enough volunteers to collect, sort, store and manage every year)
$*,000 every year subsidising development sessions with professional coaches (part parent paid /part club)
$*,000 paying junior club refs for mini Roos
Clubs have 3 streams of revenue available- regos, sponsorships and general fundraising. COVID has slowed sponsorship and fundraising difficult. If either of the last 2 are. It working as they should the last means is increasing rego fees - plain and simple - or you reduce your service level.
All of this needs to be dispersed via regos, and if parents like and want this level of service they will pay for it.
All I am saying is, every club is different in what they offer. What has been posted by NNSW is not a true representation - it is not apples vs apples.
Seriously people - ask your club what you get for your registration fees.
I know of a large club paying:
$40,000 for their grounds in Newcastle over the course of a year
$25,000 for the presentation day (incl trophies, rides, food etc)
$**,000 for maintenance and improvements (where Council are not fulfilling)
$80,000pa for new uniforms every year that the kids keep (because they cannot find enough volunteers to collect, sort, store and manage every year)
$*,000 every year subsidising development sessions with professional coaches (part parent paid /part club)
$*,000 paying junior club refs for mini Roos
Clubs have 3 streams of revenue available- regos, sponsorships and general fundraising. COVID has slowed sponsorship and fundraising difficult. If either of the last 2 are. It working as they should the last means is increasing rego fees - plain and simple - or you reduce your service level.
All of this needs to be dispersed via regos, and if parents like and want this level of service they will pay for it.
All I am saying is, every club is different in what they offer. What has been posted by NNSW is not a true representation - it is not apples vs apples.
people keep flogging this as a reason, but I'm yet to see some amazing lost talent come out of a community club where they pay $100 a season. Because players aren't made on talent.... It's a complete fallacy. even in the "old" days the best players had parents working two jobs to pay for them to go overseas, to fund their development and training, they didn't make it on goodwill and fresh air.Quote:
Originally Posted by samcan
People who keep saying this are either deluded or dreaming.
Jesus Christ lady. How the hell can you see something that has been lost?Quote:
Originally Posted by KITZ
Just because you can pay the fees for your brilliant kids don’t mean everyone can. In fact most can’t. You and others talk about how SAP and youth fees compare with ballet and dancing and other sports. Ever thought parents are getting ripped off for them as well?
Soccer is the people’s game and anything near $1K a season is too much. Amateur clubs rinsing parents to pay first graders despite what Eland and lying club presos say is an outrage.
Community clubs do it tough but do it great. Support them don’t boot them
The wrong assumption your making is the word “afford”. I pay because that’s what I want my kids to do and sacrifice in other areas for it, your assumption that it’s easy or otherwise is based on literally no information. It’s no different to kids that play tennis or anything else. If my kids wanted to play socially id chuck them into my local club and not drive and be out 4 afternoons a week. Lots of parents even with the money wouldn’t sacrifice the time and would leave their kids in the closest club because it’s not high on what they think is important.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Berlin Wall
My point had nothing to do with getting rid of community clubs. Just the endless excuse that “the next rising star” is missing out because of fees. You could make it free and the same parents still wouldn’t spend the time driving their kids and they’d still miss out.
If community sport is pricing out kids that’s a completely different issue.
Delusional and clueless. there are many families who would love to be able to make some sacrifices to afford premier football. Unfortunately for those families, the choice is between rego or food on the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by KITZ
Consider yourself lucky that maybe you forego some personal enjoyment for your kids enjoyment, but some literally don’t have that wiggle room.
Again, you don't know what I am or am not forgoing?Quote:
Originally Posted by jessepinkman
The point wasn't about kids enjoyment in community football, the comment was about how much "talent" is falling by the wayside because of the cost of higher development. The counter point is that even back in Timmy cahills day and earlier his mother worked 2 jobs and his brother quit school to work to pay for his football.
The insulation that it has EVER been easy or cheap to get to that level in this country is the fallacy, like things have somehow changed?
Mat Ryans mum - "When I played junior football and went to Westfields High she did things like negotiate the fees were paid off in instalments because, as a clerk for a transport company, it was impossible to pay them in one lump sum."
Craig Johnsons parents sold their house to send him overseas.
When you are talking poverty at the levels of not putting food on the table, the issues are MUCH bigger then playing football. Clothing, Health, Education, Housing affordability, public transport all need to be addressed. You'd could make football free and those kids would still miss out because their parents don't have a car, or can't afford fuel, or can't afford to buy boots to play. It becomes a significantly more complex issue for society then the cost of football fees.
I would argue for those in poverty just about any organised sport even just in the community is inaccessible for them and its just as crap as the public transport system, housing affordability and petrol prices. we live in a country with an extremely high cost of living.
Seeing Google has educated you about Mat Ryan’s mum’s payment plan let me give you some real world news. Get down to the parks in Jesmond and watch some of the African community boys down there and tell me they couldn’t just walk into any NPL youth team in the area. they would run rings around half the players in the comp on talent alone. But why don’t they play NPL youth? Google that and let us know the answerQuote:
Originally Posted by KITZ
Players shouldnt pay for council ineptitudeQuote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dawson
Players shouldnt pay for extra coaching they dont need
Players shouldnt pay for over the top preso crap if its going to add 100s of dollars to rego
Its football not an ego pumping moron fest.
have you asked them? why do you assume kids want more or less from football? maybe they don't even know about NPL, or their parents want them to focus on their education. Not all talented players want or have the support of their parents to go further with any sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Berlin Wall
for example, I'm sure theres heaps of girls who are talented football players who aren't allowed to play for cultural reasons. I try not to assume because someone is doing or not doing something ie 'playing at Jesmond and not playing NPL' is because they are too poor to play NPL or don't have other life plans.
frankly it's a little racist and offensive to make assumptions about people at all without actually asking them, I would never assume someone isn't living the life they want or choose to without involving them in the discussion.
I’ll reply to this one and this one in the same reply, but “you don’t know what I’m forgoing”…. Well if it’s food for your family or medication for yourself or family, or rent (not a mortgage, you’re not on the same level as those who need it if you have an asset of any value that you can fall back on) then I can’t say I would make the same decision. If it’s not those things, then you’re not someone that needs to worry about what football costs, remembering that on top of rego is also all the associated gear, petrol, and of course other children to worry about. It astounds me that you can say premier football (or any football costs) is not a barrier for the best kids whenQuote:
Originally Posted by KITZ
1. It is
2. You clearly are doing fine if your kids play premier football, and if you’re forgoing basic necessities so they can play Newcastle premier football
We lose the best athletes to the cheaper sports daily, we lose the more than best athletes to sports that identify them and pay for them 100%.
The football associations in oz from local to fa are a pyramid scheme, the top takes the cash, the bottom buy in and never see a return - opposite to afl and nrl etc.
Second, I wasn’t you you asked, but yes I have asked them. I’ve played against Simba for years - I’ve spoken to their committee and senior members. The club is set up because those families can’t afford community football, let alone premier. The best ones move after they’re late teenagers and can get their rego paid for by the club, in the senior setup, or the community sometimes sponsors them. Reaching into your already somewhat empty pockets to support someone else’s kid in your community to play premier football is so backward it’s not funny.
You’re just wrong lol.
If you think saying that kids in the African community are better than half the kids running around NPL is racist then you are more woke and over-privileged than you appear. Which is frankly amazing. To steep to the lowest of the low because your only lens is via a middle-class rose tinted bubble is pathetic.Quote:
Originally Posted by KITZ
Like my new best mate Jess Pinkman I have spent plenty of time around the clubs playing in those suburbs that you refuse to drive to and it is super clear that those kids have the same dreams your kids do. I won't repeat Jesse's reasons why thousands of dollars for soccer isn't achievable, other than to say he's right. But go ahead and tell us again that you taking time away Married at First Sight is the REAL sacrifice here.
Just stick to moaning with your friends about how hard it is to get your $50K SUV to all the grounds your kids need to and stay away from social comment because you clearly do not have a clue.
Like the other big sports in Aus football needs to be funded from top down.
$14 ffA $20 nnsw $40 NewcF. Thats $74 for each player before we get the u6s -u12s community on the park. Scrap that crap.
Club kit and club component is most necessary. Have a stepped cap. u6 $50. u7 60, u8 70, u9 80 u10 90 and then 100 for the rest. Maybe a kit levy if needed.
Some clubs have over 500 junior community players. Thats a lot of doe.
Others like Ham Azzurri get their stuff done on next to nothing. If a club wants 500ft light towers then get corporate sponsors or stfu.
I can't believe no one even wants to comment on the insurance costs.
24% of NNSWF costs are insurance related.
Players should be required to provide their own insurance or sign a waiver.
In 40 years of playing multiple different sports I have copped a lengthy injury list. Probably about 4 weeks in hospital, a couple of surgeries and too many visits to the Emergency Room.
Not once have I or anyone I have ever known been required to claim against any sporting association or club.
I play O35's football still but I have income protection insurance & health insurance which is above and beyond the ridiculously low cover that approximately $600,000 of spend is required for.
spot on about insurance
I've run the All Age mens and Old Man sides Cooks Hill United for about half of it's history
I think in that time we've had probably two players get any money out of the insurance provided
you need to draw on your personal health insurance first, that's part of what we have to sign up to
then the income protection is once you've been off for more than three months (which would have to be a pretty serious injury)
not being able to opt out, or replace with your own insurance (which you have to anyway) is the bit that pisses me off about it
so for the tens of thousands we give to insurance every season, we've claimed at most, two thousand
How are your community kids playing 10 more competition games than any other club?Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
If your club is in Lake Macquarie and they are telling you they have to pay for Electricity and water on top of the council fee (which can only be ground hire), then they are spinning you a lie as they are included in the ground hire fees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
If a Newcastle club then they do have to pay for lights on top of the hire fee for grounds but not water.
Indeed because the kids aren't just going to one club other another there are kids leaving the code for good. Clubs who are charging high fees aren't doing anyone any favours by turning parents away from putting their kids in the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldy
It's amazing just seeing the price difference between some of these clubs at entry level - we're talking Under 5 & 6 kids!
It's not just the football pyramid at the top who are greedy!
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldeneagle
And we're talking about u6 to u12s who are in it for the fun n giggles.
They dont need lights.
They train usually once a week maybe twice and play 14 games.
The whole package should be around $140 max.
Link came from the costs of Football page.Quote:
Haha pot meet the kettle.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
We run a HUB at Kahibah, so we plan as many games as we can fit in. I think our 20 odd U6 and U7 teams will get hopefully around 24 games in this year maybe more if we don't get washouts. The other ages get more games as well. The fees advertised in a lot of cases are just not reflective of what some clubs offer over other clubs. I'm not pushing our barrow and we don't go out and openly advertise what we offer for our fee, just trying to make it clear that just looking at the fee alone cannot determine whether a club is too expensive. If a club is too high for your liking then in most cases there is another club just around the corner. I pay dance fee's I know what's cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatscheese
How’s the dancing going, I hope you’ve improved 😂Quote:
Originally Posted by matmoncrieff
Always room for improvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRed
Anyone on here got any advice on how to obtain a Clubs General Meeting minutes when the Club Committee won't release the minutes?
It's pretty ridiculous that a Community Sporting Club would prefer to get Solicitors involved rather than being actually transparent.