2021 Premier Club SAP

Different rules for 9/10 and 11/12 causes confusion.Rule changes this year (drop off on goalies in possession,sub windows) have added to it.Our club provides the official rules to every player and makes them and their parents read it.Obviously a lot dont and still look stupid complaining about refs on weekends.I wish some clubs took it a bit more seriously though as seeing kids lined up to play and clubs still scrambling for refs or people out there who have no earthly idea what they are doing is a terrible look.

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

1) Players moving up a age group? yes or no? if so how does your club run this? E.g. under 9s player playing or training under 10s

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If a player is good enough and needs to go up to be challenged and improve then they should be. No different to Youth or Senior Football

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2) Drop off zone? does your club police this and how is it run?

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Up to the ref to police it

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3) the knowledge that there is no direct freekicks?

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Silly idea

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4) positional rotation? (for some kids i have found clearly have no interest or drive to play certain roles and to me looks to bring down a team in regards to there overall developing during game situations)

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They should be given time in different positions, they are 8-12 years old, they don't have a position they only play and will play where the coach tells them to play. Some parents have no idea and claim their kid is only a 9, yet when he is in U10s you can't claim that he is only a 9 and only played 9 his entire life.

Some kids will be more naturally suited to certain areas of the park, no big deal giving them more game time there but they should be rotated into different positions not only for their benefit but also for the benefit of other players to experience and learn in that position. Their young kids, the whole point is about learning move them around.

Im fine with kids playing up.Its been clear at ages 11 and 12 that the gap between the biggest and smallest kids is pretty large anyway so as long as they can physically handle it then why not.Plenty of JDL 12 kids playing NPL 13's too and from all reports the good ones are handling it just fine.There might be a time soon when those kids will stay back for the extra year of development but hopefully coaches/parents make decisions based on the best interests of the kids and they will be fine.

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

After a few rounds this season i would love to hear peoples opinions on the below topics.

Firstly i think there is a lack of knowledge across some coaches and coaching staff in regards to the drop off zones, Free kicks. Is this something for each club to assure there teams and coaching staff understand the rules of JDL correctly? or do you beleive each club take there own opinion of these rules and play it how they like?

Topics:

1) Players moving up a age group? yes or no? if so how does your club run this? E.g. under 9s player playing or training under 10s
2) Drop off zone? does your club police this and how is it run?
3) the knowledge that there is no direct freekicks?
4) positional rotation? (for some kids i have found clearly have no interest or drive to play certain roles and to me looks to bring down a team in regards to there overall developing during game situations)

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1) If a child has the development required and can physically handle it I've got no problem with it; the only wrinkle I see is if that player pushes out an appropriate aged player that then misses out on further development. I guess this is a per-player decision the club would have to consider
2) I make sure my game leaders know about it and enforce it; I also try and talk to the opposition coach about it before the game; I will often remind the players during the game if they are not dropping off; someone down thread suggested the rule now says all goalkeeper possessions, but I'm pretty sure the rule is just goal kicks. That being said, I have on occasion told my kids to drop off whenever the keeper has the ball.
3) There are direct free kicks in U11 and U12. But you're right in U9/U10 there are only indirect.
4) U9 last year we rotated through positions in a very rigid, prescriptive way. You got 40 minutes of game time and it was all played in the one position. Next game we rotated so you played the position next to the last one, again for 40 minutes that game. With 3 subs this was possible and reasonably easy. It was obvious when players didn't want to be in certain positions and it was obvious when they were coping or not in each position.
U10 this year and we are stilling rotating where appropriate. I have 5 subs, which makes it more difficult to balance game time and keep the kids in one position long enough so you can see how they are coping/developing. I have mentioned to the parents that game time in one game will be uneven, but hope to balance out game time over 3 or 4 games.

I'll add a 5) Goalkeepers must throw/roll the ball out, or play the ball from the ground with their feet. They can't kick or drop-kick the ball directly from their hands.

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Originally Posted by scowling

someone down thread suggested the rule now says all goalkeeper possessions, but I'm pretty sure the rule is just goal kicks. That being said, I have on occasion told my kids to drop off whenever the keeper has the ball.

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Here is the rule from the NNSW JDL rules sheet.

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5.6. GOALKEEPERS
The goalkeeper is allowed to handle the ball anywhere in the penalty area.
To restart play after a save or gathering the ball with their hands, the ball must be thrown or rolled
from the hands or played from the ground with their feet, within 6 seconds.
The goalkeeper is not allowed to kick or drop kick the ball directly from their hands. Opponents must
be at least 10 metres outside the penalty area and cannot move inside the penalty area until the ball
is in play. The ball is in play once it moves out of the penalty area or when the goalkeeper places the
ball on the ground.

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This is the doc we all got pre-season.Sure enough game 1,I was reffing and calling for players to drop.Right on cue,players,coaches and parents from both teams were yelling at me.It was clear that NONE of them read it (even though we were all given a copy and told to read it).I spoke to the coaches at half time about it and one of them still had the hide to whinge about not knowing.At least the other bloke thanked me for letting him know (he then helped by telling his kids to drop the entire 2nd half).Its a small issue but these things create dramas when people dont know the rules yet feel obliged to yell and scream at volunteer refs.

1) It is all dependent on the individual.
I have seen a couple of boys around the clubs that have had their development affected negatively by taking the step up.
On the flipside, I think there are lots of kids throughout all the age groups that should take a step up based on physical size & ability. If a kid is doing it pretty easy based on being bigger, faster and stronger they risk relying on their physicality rather than ability. If other kids physically catch up over the years then they may not have developed an ability to cope with it.

2) 100% enforce it as per the instructions from club coaches, etc. If the kids encroach past the drop off line before an attacking player apart from the keeper has a touch then a free kick should be given and the reason why explained to the kids on the pitch.

3) Direct Free kicks are awarded in 11's and 12's only.

4) Kids should never be locked into a single position in JDL/SAP. Nobody can practice all of the 4 core development areas in games by playing sole in a single area on the field all the time.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Here is the rule from the NNSW JDL rules sheet.

This is the doc we all got pre-season.Sure enough game 1,I was reffing and calling for players to drop.Right on cue,players,coaches and parents from both teams were yelling at me.It was clear that NONE of them read it (even though we were all given a copy and told to read it).I spoke to the coaches at half time about it and one of them still had the hide to whinge about not knowing.At least the other bloke thanked me for letting him know (he then helped by telling his kids to drop the entire 2nd half).Its a small issue but these things create dramas when people dont know the rules yet feel obliged to yell and scream at volunteer refs.

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Yeah doesn't help when they change it though coaches should be reading the rules. Last year they were allowed to kick out of their feet, good to see with the banning of that rule they also said players must drop off 10m

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Here is the rule from the NNSW JDL rules sheet.

This is the doc we all got pre-season.Sure enough game 1,I was reffing and calling for players to drop.Right on cue,players,coaches and parents from both teams were yelling at me.It was clear that NONE of them read it (even though we were all given a copy and told to read it).I spoke to the coaches at half time about it and one of them still had the hide to whinge about not knowing.At least the other bloke thanked me for letting him know (he then helped by telling his kids to drop the entire 2nd half).Its a small issue but these things create dramas when people dont know the rules yet feel obliged to yell and scream at volunteer refs.

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From the JDL Rules:
5.4. GOAL KICK DROP OFF-LINE
All attacking players are required to remain behind the drop-off line when goal kicks are being
taken until the team taking the goal kick has taken a touch.
Not applicable when goalkeeper receives ball in general play.

In general play the defending players are to retreat outside the penalty area and can move forward once the ball has been put on the ground or rolled to an attacking player.

On goal kicks the defending players are to retreat to the drop off line and can move forward once an attacking player has taken a touch.

JDL Rules on NNSWF website

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Originally Posted by Aegon

From the JDL Rules:
5.4. GOAL KICK DROP OFF-LINE
All attacking players are required to remain behind the drop-off line when goal kicks are being
taken until the team taking the goal kick has taken a touch.
Not applicable when goalkeeper receives ball in general play.

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Yep that is 5.4

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In general play the defending players are to retreat outside the penalty area and can move forward once the ball has been put on the ground or rolled to an attacking player.

On goal kicks the defending players are to retreat to the drop off line and can move forward once an attacking player has taken a touch.

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This is from 5.6, not outside the penalty area and can move forward, it is 10m outside the penalty area.

The goalkeeper is not allowed to kick or drop kick the ball directly from their hands. Opponents must
be at least 10 metres outside the penalty area and cannot move inside the penalty area until the ball
is in play. The ball is in play once it moves out of the penalty area or when the goalkeeper places the
ball on the ground.

I don't understand this bit though

"If the ball hits any part of the net behind the goalkeeper off a shot, keeper save or deflection, the ball automatically goes to the goalkeeper for a restart;"

Surely it is either a goal or corner kick if off a keeper save.

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Originally Posted by Goatscheese

I don't understand this bit though

"If the ball hits any part of the net behind the goalkeeper off a shot, keeper save or deflection, the ball automatically goes to the goalkeeper for a restart;"

Surely it is either a goal or corner kick if off a keeper save.

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The above is in relation to Phase 1 and the small sided games only

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Originally Posted by Aegon

From the JDL Rules:
5.4. GOAL KICK DROP OFF-LINE
All attacking players are required to remain behind the drop-off line when goal kicks are being
taken until the team taking the goal kick has taken a touch.
Not applicable when goalkeeper receives ball in general play.

In general play the defending players are to retreat outside the penalty area and can move forward once the ball has been put on the ground or rolled to an attacking player.

On goal kicks the defending players are to retreat to the drop off line and can move forward once an attacking player has taken a touch.

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Im not sure why you are quoting my post but explaining a different rule.I know the drop off line and goal kick rule.I was talking about the rule for goalies when they are in possession in general play.Thats the one that changed.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Im not sure why you are quoting my post but explaining a different rule.I know the drop off line and goal kick rule.I was talking about the rule for goalies when they are in possession in general play.Thats the one that changed.

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The original post you replied to had a query about all goalkeeper possessions. Wasn't aware the original quoted text would disappear.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Im fine with kids playing up.Its been clear at ages 11 and 12 that the gap between the biggest and smallest kids is pretty large anyway so as long as they can physically handle it then why not.Plenty of JDL 12 kids playing NPL 13's too and from all reports the good ones are handling it just fine.There might be a time soon when those kids will stay back for the extra year of development but hopefully coaches/parents make decisions based on the best interests of the kids and they will be fine.

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Kids playing up is really more for the parents ego than anything. Seen it many times.
There are many players that can play up but they only fit in not stand out. I havent seen any superstars that really need this. Maybe in 9's there's a fair bit of discrepancy and staying up for a year can help but after that improvements are large. Even the bigger faster players need to work on other skills. Plenty of time to fill in for the age up in NPL Youth.

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Originally Posted by samcan

Kids playing up is really more for the parents ego than anything. Seen it many times.
There are many players that can play up but they only fit in not stand out. I havent seen any superstars that really need this. Maybe in 9's there's a fair bit of discrepancy and staying up for a year can help but after that improvements are large. Even the bigger faster players need to work on other skills. Plenty of time to fill in for the age up in NPL Youth.

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If a player isn't being challenged enough then they should 100% train with the squad who will. This for the boys train up and for the girls train with the appropriate aged boys. This is my reason, if a player is very good at 1v1 in their age group and goes past others in their team with ease, if you let them stay there they will get into bad habits by only performing this action to 80% of their ability, if they train against other players who a more of a challenge they have to perform the same action against someone who will make them have to be at their 100% best to have success.

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Originally Posted by samcan

Kids playing up is really more for the parents ego than anything. Seen it many times.
There are many players that can play up but they only fit in not stand out. I havent seen any superstars that really need this. Maybe in 9's there's a fair bit of discrepancy and staying up for a year can help but after that improvements are large. Even the bigger faster players need to work on other skills. Plenty of time to fill in for the age up in NPL Youth.

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Spoken like a true parent with a bruised ego.

Kids playing up at various ages is a must for their development. The high end of kids particularly in 11s and 12s should be playing up because they need to be tested and develop the high end skills under pressure.

There are a number of U12s playing NPL this year and are very strong in their respective teams, there are 11s playing in the 12s that are most dominant in this age.

So being about a parents ego just goes to show how ill informed you are, how little you actually know about the game and I’m sorry for having a shot at your ego but the conversation isn’t about superstars it’s about placing kids right for their development. As you say you see players playing up that fit in, isn’t that what it’s about having plays fit in to their level so they can continue to improve their alround skills at the appropriate level ??

Kids choose to play JDL over community because they want a higher level and get selected.Kids move clubs within JDL because they want a higher level and get selected.Kids play up ages because they want a higher level and get selected.Ive yet to see any kids playing up who havent deserved a go and who are doing it for their parents gratification thats for sure.

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Originally Posted by samcan

There are many players that can play up but they only fit in not stand out. I havent seen any superstars that really need this.

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If they are playing up and a superstar than they should be pushed up again

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Ive yet to see any kids playing up who havent deserved a go and who are doing it for their parents gratification thats for sure.

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I have because the father was very insistent going on about it and complaining to the committee when the TD suggested he go back down as he was struggling in U10s, but only once