The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

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Originally Posted by snake

before starting a lecture series on evolution, the lecturor is obliged to aoplogise that the following content may upset those with religious views. this disgusts me.

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I remember one of my first lectures in anatomy at uni, the lecturer was talking about the palmaris longus and how it was commonly used as a climbing muscle, but as we evolve further away from apes, fewer and fewer humans have this muscle as we just don't use it anymore. The lecturer said "so all you religious, creationist nuts out there - do this test to see if you have it or not, and try and tell me evolution isn't real HA-HA-HA" heaps forcefully :rof:

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Originally Posted by la bazzle

The frustration comes from constantly seeing religion hold back the progress of man kind. From Muslims blowing people up to Christians stopping vital research. The frustration comes from religion entering the relm of politics where it doesn't belong. When decisions about issues in society are held back and debated due to religion having a problem with said issue is frustrating. You say it's your belief its personal blah blah blah yet in the same breath say oh yeah but two dudes can't get married cause I believe they can't. If it's such a personal choice why the **** does it matter if two dudes bonk each other and wear pretty rings? Its personal.....shouldnt effect you.

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Agree.
Why does it matter to some people, if somebody they've never met and never will meet, marries another bloke/or lady(Put away that lesbian porn while you're at it...). Marriage isn't monopolised by religion anymore. I went to a wedding recently, not a single mention of God, no priests, no churches. I'm not saying let them get married in a church, but let them be legally recognised.

Can a homosexual be forgiven for being gay?

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Originally Posted by pv4

I remember one of my first lectures in anatomy at uni, the lecturer was talking about the palmaris longus and how it was commonly used as a climbing muscle, but as we evolve further away from apes, fewer and fewer humans have this muscle as we just don't use it anymore. The lecturer said "so all you religious, creationist nuts out there - do this test to see if you have it or not, and try and tell me evolution isn't real HA-HA-HA" heaps forcefully :rof:

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Probably my most favourite course at uni, tbh.

Guys, guys, guys..
Take a breath.. Relax, cause I've got some news for you..
Griff is the only true God.. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Bon

Guys, guys, guys..
Take a breath.. Relax, cause I've got some news for you..
Griff is the only true God.. :thumbsup:

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Michael Caine says otherwise. (think the monologue starts here) go to 1:30:25

http://youtu.be/-dItSpmQtlE?t=1h30m27s

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

Can a homosexual be forgiven for being gay?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Don't quote mine what you don't understand it makes you look like an idiot.

Dick Feynman while an accomplished quantum theorist was also someone that wrote popularisations for money.
These popularisations may be fun to read but without the maths thay are absolutely fooking useless with respect to understanding Quantum Mechanics.
Quote mining just confirms that you do not undertstand Quantum mechanics at even the most basic level or evolutionary theory for that matter.

Your time would be much better served reading what John Polkinghorne has written on these subjects.

Polkinghorne was a student of Paul Dirac and is a very accomplished Quantum Theorist in his own right. Moreover, he is also a Chrisitan but not a fundamentalist like yourself or MFKS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KlJ7Bt3oxE

I hope this might help open your mind a little.

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I admit I didn't know the context to that quote, I saw it in an article and thought it went well with the point. I will do more research before blindly quoting in the future.

Also what makes me a Christian fundamentalist?
This isn't a term that I see used very often and my limited research on it doesn't see it as a position that I align myself with

Also you have made many posts about Quantum mechanics and I have done some reading to get to grips with some of the basics but can you explain to me how it disproves God like you said in one of your earlier posts

I like the video as well. The guy makes some very good points some of which I had heard before and some of which I hadn't and expresses the them in a simple yet profound way. I have never said I am against evolution or science

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Originally Posted by snake

no, the bible was written long after the event by people acting on second, third or worse hand recollections. i'm sure a lot of "correcting" went on, but not the honest type.

also, since when are there more ancient manuscripts than every other text in history? how many people were around then? how many were literate? show your sources

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Of the gospels (first 4 books of NT, those that tell the story of Jesus life, death and resurrection). The dating varies a fair amount sources such as this http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-whom propose earlier dates written and sources but to take Wikipedia which proposes later dates with sources:
- Matthew is written in the last quarter of the first century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_...tting_and_date)
- Mark - between 63-70AD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark#Composition)
- Luke - late 1st century or early second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_...rship_and_date)
- John - near end of 1st century (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John#Date)

So its not long enough that everyone who knew Jesus would have been dead

I heard that there were more manuscripts from someone who was discussing the historical evidence of the bible. This site has a simple table showing there were more copies: http://carm.org/manuscript-evidence

also an extract from that same article raises a valid point about your issue of correction:
"Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30., then that means the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned--people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts."

I couldn't find exact figures on literacy rates but this article shows that there was a decent enough level of literacy - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/re.../1573658/posts

This is another article that I found on how the text would have been changed over time - http://www.str.org/articles/is-the-n...ble#.VJjdIjABg

I am going to do some further research about the accuracy of original texts compared to actual events.

But one last thing is that there were 9 different authors of the NT and no archaeological evidence has been found to contradict the claims of the NT that I am aware of. It's not as if people could have successfully conspired together for something like this (http://carm.org/new-testament-writer...-and-influence)

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sure, jc probably existed. how does that support the supernatural claims though? answer = it doesn't.

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I agree if the bible is false that Jesus existence means nothing.

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how did he turn water into wine? what's the energy release for nucleosyntheis of the carbon for the alcohol from the water?

hint: you will need to use scientific notation to reasonably express this number.

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Christians believe that Jesus is God and thus he can be not limited by what is impossible for humans.

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the phrase "survival of the fittest" is a bit unfortunate in that it is readily misunderstood, as is your case here. the fittest doesn't just mean strongest or fastest, which is where the confusion arises. selection is any action by which on average your genes become more common in a population on account of there being more copies made. for natural selection, this usually comes down to breeding success. what you are asking is how can altrustic behaviour favour your breeding success, given that it helps others (including competitors). i'll give you one simple mechanism, but there are others. when animals become more intelligent and social, it helps to cooperate since the team is stronger than the sum of its individual parts. obviously, your team also carry many of the same genes as you, so altuistic behaviour increases the chances of a gene becoming more common.

now, what if you try and do all the leaning and none of the lifting (thanks tones). well, others in the community will know and you will be shunned. this has been observed in animals other than homo-sapiens.

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The way I phrased my response did show my misunderstanding and naivity to use the words that I did. But still where does the difference in morality and intelligence between animals and humans come from? Why haven't more intelligent species involved to a near intelligence to that of humans?

What was life expectancy back in 34-199 AD?

If jc was about 30 when crucified, and gospels written 70 yrs later, would those around at his time of living were still alive 70 years later.

Social media didn't exist, massive rates of illiterate populations would make it possible for almôst anything to be written and not neccusarily challanged. Particularly with the way any dusts enters would have been dealt with by the 'justice' system.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

I've no doubt JC lived it's the whole "son of god" thing I struggle to understand people's faith in. No disrespect.

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If the bible is true which is what most of my claims are made according to. The bible clearly says Jesus is both the son of God and God. If he wasn't one of these things then the rest of the story would not really mean anything or be true and thus having faith in Jesus at all would be pointless.

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Happy to be corrected but wasn't the NT largely written a few hundred years after.... Except some of the early stuff..... And if the timeframe you suggest is accurate, it'd be pretty easy to explain an inability to have things edited by way of rates of illiteracy and the literates being the ones in power.

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It wasn't written hundreds of years after, it was all written within a hundred years. I agree that literacy levels were not at what they were today but they would have still been sufficient for people to enough people to know enough of the stories to correct inaccuracies (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/re.../1573658/posts).

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I'm sorry, but the "his disciples believed him and were willing to die" can be pretty easily argued against by looking at some modern day cults that saw leaders convince their followers that they too were some heavenly incarnation and many followers being willing to die in their name too.

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I agree but the bible claims that after Jesus died, he rose again and was seen by his disciples and multiple disciples became martyrs because of what they saw. But even if you were pretty gullible after much torture and large times in prison, surely you would just say what I claimed was wrong and spared yourself of more torture or spared your life unless you were 100% convinced that it was worth it to die for this person

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I'm still to be convinced these early documents, and their translation/interpretation where not massively subject to political grabs for power and control of populations either by the church or whatever feudal/democratic system may have existed at any period of time, and is still happening today.

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Humans are largely two things, gullible or greedy, as we've become more literate and educated as a species the influence of the church has wained..... I'm not calling anyone of faith to be gullible, you have listed a number of points I've not got an answer to, I suppose what I am saying is that I can't help but think the greed of those in power has always played on the gullibility of the masses of populations they sought to control and all religious texts are being written, interpreted and re-written by power hungry people wanting to remain in power.

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Those in power at the time didn't like Jesus, it wasn't them who wrote the bible. The bible hasn't been greatly re-written or changed by those in power as the earliest manuscripts when translated are very similar to the modern bible

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

What was life expectancy back in 34-199 AD?

If jc was about 30 when crucified, and gospels written 70 yrs later, would those around at his time of living were still alive 70 years later.

Social media didn't exist, massive rates of illiterate populations would make it possible for almost anything to be written and not neccusarily challanged. Particularly with the way any dusts enters would have been dealt with by the 'justice' system.

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According to my googling just then it Is very low around 28 and most men wouldn't make it to 45

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Originally Posted by joel31

According to my googling just then it Is very low around 28 and most men wouldn't make it to 45

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So potentially two generations later. You can understand how non-believers can be sceptical about the accuracy of these texts. Hey I get that it's a matter of "faith" in believing these stories. But to me by using that logic any story can be true if you have faith in it. Why for example are scientologists considered crazy for believing what they believe, it was written down after all. Yet it's apparently not as crazy to believe a dude walked on water, turned water into wine, fed 4-5k people with a few loaves of bread/couple of fish and came back from the dead. What I'm saying is, let's say I'm a potential religious convert, what makes one religion more legitimate then another (genuine question)?

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Originally Posted by joel31

According to my googling just then it Is very low around 28 and most men wouldn't make it to 45

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Psalm 90:10 for **** sake what kind of Christian are you ?

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"The days of our years are threescore years and ten; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away"

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70-80!

Wow.

Before the fall life expectancy was infinite.
"in the day that you eat of it you shall die" Genesis 2:17

In the pre-diluvian times [after the fall and before the flood ]900 years or so was the life expectancy.

Then Labour got into power, ****ed the hospital system and Medicare over then people started dying in their 70's.

Rather disturbing the hypocrisy from the law in this country.

Couple of blokes go hang outside a mosque hurling abuse at those going in and they get arrested.

Bloke who is involved in 40 odd claims of sexual misconduct is allowed bail probably because he is a Muslim and we can not offend Muslims and allowed to walk the streets and get a gun and inflict terror on the country.


Also poignant to note with the anti christian sentiment going on in this thread how that is tolerated by the law yet criticism of Islam is apparently a crime.

Leftist apologetic nutters have a lot to answer for

Rather off topic (but actually on topic) how is the John Rovertdon news.
I mean he was seriously unelectable but to be rissoled for essentially forwarding a letter to help a bloke see his kids on fathers day is weak as piss.

for the record, I reckon Islam is stupider than Christianity

not that I'm left wing but I find the logical backflips you hear from that side of politics about Islam is ridiculous

judge Islam by the same standards you judge Tony Abbott - he might be a sexist moron but at least he's not mutilating your lady bits

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Rather disturbing the hypocrisy from the law in this country.

Couple of blokes go hang outside a mosque hurling abuse at those going in and they get arrested.

Bloke who is involved in 40 odd claims of sexual misconduct is allowed bail probably because he is a Muslim and we can not offend Muslims and allowed to walk the streets and get a gun and inflict terror on the country.


Also poignant to note with the anti christian sentiment going on in this thread how that is tolerated by the law yet criticism of Islam is apparently a crime.

Leftist apologetic nutters have a lot to answer for

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-roBPhD-G3U

It was only a matter of time before the Member made a video explaining his position.

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Originally Posted by boz-monaut

for the record, I reckon Islam is stupider than Christianity

not that I'm left wing but I find the logical backflips you hear from that side of politics about Islam is ridiculous

judge Islam by the same standards you judge Tony Abbott - he might be a sexist moron but at least he's not mutilating your lady bits

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Can we also all agree that the Scientologists are the most batshit?
**** those people.
Loons.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Also poignant to note with the anti christian sentiment going on in this thread how that is tolerated by the law yet criticism of Islam is apparently a crime.

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On this we can agree. Like I said before I think they're all bullshit. If we can bag out Christians we can bag out Muslims. I agree nothing should be tolerated purely for the fear of criticising or offending people. Everyone should be held to the same standards. I feel as an atheist I'm actually in a better position to bag them out. I think anyone who blindly follows a book written 100s or 1000s of years ago and uses it to justify oppression, violence, murder etc are the scum of the earth and should be treated accordingly.

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Originally Posted by plague

Can we also all agree that the Scientologists are the most batshit?
**** those people.
Loons.

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See I can't see the difference....sure they believe in some crazy arse alien shit.....but is that so much more batshit crazy then dudes walking on water, magically healing the blind, coming back from the dead, bearded dude in the sky, getting every species of animal on a boat, turning water to wine etc etc?........ (They're pretty ****ing nuts but...)

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Originally Posted by la bazzle

See I can't see the difference....sure they believe in some crazy arse alien shit.....but is that so much more batshit crazy then dudes walking on water, magically healing the blind, coming back from the dead, bearded dude in the sky, getting every species of animal on a boat, turning water to wine etc etc?........ (They're pretty ****ing nuts but...)

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Yeah but Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
I mean, cmon man.

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Originally Posted by plague

Yeah but Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
I mean, cmon man.

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Haha I concede, they're two terrible ****ing mascots

So... the rail lives on, for the time being.

The line may stay, but I doubt the service will run to Newcastle.

Attachment 933
Merry Christmas everybody

Just like to take the opportunity to announce two things.

Firstly wish my lord and saviour JC a happy birthday for tomorrow. Really appreciate your sacrifice to die for our sins

Secondly wish you all a Merry Xmas particularly to the two best posters on the foz Plague and FR

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Just like to take the opportunity to announce two things.

Firstly wish my lord and saviour JC a happy birthday for tomorrow. Really appreciate your sacrifice to die for our sins

Secondly wish you all a Merry Xmas particularly to the two best posters on the foz Plague and FR

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ah, you're too kind Member.

100% correct, but too kind all the same.

Merry Christmas to you and yours as well.

I think, from memory, historically Jesus would have more likely been born in August. This is because it was during a roman census which would have taken place in the warmer period of the year, not in the middle of winter.

Enjoy a pagan holiday chosen to make conversion of the masses easier.

It's not your holiday anymore anyway, it's the capitalists.

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Originally Posted by Blackmac79

It's not your holiday anymore anyway, it's the capitalists.

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Geez mate, you make it sound like that's a bad thing.
Obvs didn't get any Lego.

"Country's in a mess"
"No money to do anything"
"Sting the poor to go to the GP"


"Oh hey old white guy who's married to the Queen, let's give you a new title".

FFS.

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Originally Posted by plague

"Country's in a mess"
"No money to do anything"
"Sting the poor to go to the GP"


"Oh hey old white guy who's married to the Queen, let's give you a new title".

FFS.

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Abbott??? I am not certain this bloke isn't gonna get strung up by his own party prior to the next election.

Still amazes me the punters out there who are disappointed in him. He was weasel and a slimy grub of the highest order before people voted him as PM.


Nothing has changed just cause he moved into the Lodge



I just can't understand how Griffo was over looked for Australian of the Year again

If he wasn't so socially stupid he would be alright (not good, but alright) he has made some plonking decisions, but some good ones too, like getting FT agreements with big Asian countries

no can fix the hole we are in so might as well put my hand up & do the same crap job for much less

oh the delicious ****ing irony!

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Originally Posted by belchardo

oh the delicious ****ing irony!

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Amazing isn't it. Dead set these idiots heads are so far up their asses they can't even see back 12 months ago to what the public thinks of this behaviour.
They all deserve what they get, which hopefully is a massive foot in the ass.

Can't wait for Shorten to come out in support of Abbott then knife him 30mins before the vote.
Old habits die hard I guess.

Maybe Abbott should talk to Stubbins and Tinkler as they just a bit more popularity than him at the moment.

after all the goo feasting that the abbott booger-man is on the way out, isn't the real nightmare for da strayan Left if turnbull actually gets up and we have a somewhat respectable, reasonable leader?

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Originally Posted by q-money

after all the goo feasting that the abbott booger-man is on the way out, isn't the real nightmare for da strayan Left if turnbull actually gets up and we have a somewhat respectable, reasonable leader?

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The ABC and Murdoch press all wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Turnbull is the absolute worst case scenario for the ALP isn't he? I don't think Oz will vote for Bishop or Morrison.
Would love to see Pyne given the keys for a few weeks tho, deadset lulz turtles all around.