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I remember hearing something like that in the media, not directly from the FFA, and thinking that it was BS.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
I certainly haven't seen it explained WHY Perth Glory would get this recognition and not Adelaide United and Newcastle United. There is no logical reason for it.
That might be how you remember it, I don't personally have any distinct recollection of specific statements to that tune, but the facts remain. The media consistently reported them as the same clubs moving forward into the new league. The fans have continually held the same view & the FFA has allowed 10 & 15 year celebrations for Adelaide & Perth, maybe because they can't deny the facts of history.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
Quote:
Those designs are essentially generic but the colours vary. Queensland Roar have produced arguably the most striking statement - a predominantly orange top which is unashamedly based on their Dutch heritage. Sydney FC, perhaps mindful of suggestions they are Sydney City (a former NSL club) in a thinly veiled disguise, have sensibly added dark blue to their dominant sky blue to lay claim to being a club which represents the state of NSW.
NSW does, of course, have two other clubs, Central Coast Mariners (yellow and blue) and Newcastle United, the latter of which has chosen to move away from their former colours of red and blue and choose a gold top - perhaps the favourite of the A-League's head of operations, Matt Carroll, who described it as a "ripper".
http://www.smh.com.au/news/football/...143846089.html
It was because PG won the last NSL comp and basically (or exactly?) kept the exact same squad for the HAL season 1. That's how I had it explained to me by someone who helped kickstart the comp.Quote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
That might make sense for Perth Glory but if you reverse the logic and say that they decided that Newcastle United and Adelaide United are not regarded as the same clubs as the ones in the NSL because they did not win the last NSL comp and substantially changed their playing rosters for the A-League, it doesn't make a lot of sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
The last year of the NSL was a write off. Every club knew the old competition was dead and were basically trying to save as much money as possible. We then went a full season without a national competition in which it did not make sense to keep players on a roster if you didn't have to.
Would they say that Sydney Olympic are not the same club because of similar reasoning? Because they didn't win the final NSL and substantially changed their roster for entry into the NSWPL?
When I was at the club the FFA were hassling us to get the "United" out of our name. They wanted us to just be the Newcastle Jets.
The CEO asked my opinion and my opinion was that it be kept in the name because of the history it brings with it. The club has to be strong in standing up for its history.
Anyway you cut the slice its still a bullshit pie.
FFA Cup Tifo 14years.
HSG already took us back to year zero m8, it should only be 4 years or whatever the **** happened
Yep, like I said I don't necessarily subscribe to the theory, that's just what the official line was at the start of the HAL. Don't shoot the messenger :rof:
I've been watching the Jets "About Us" page over the years. When I was in charge of the website I wrote quite a detailed history of football in our region to show the place the Jets has in it. Some of my words are still there but over the years it has slowly been chipped away. It used to be quite clear on that history page that we considered the club in the NSL to be the same and the current club, just with a change of management and the "Jets" just being a new addition to the badge. This portion of the history has been completely chopped out of the text.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
FFA tried to re-write history. Doesn't mean we have to read it.
Imagine how a club like Sth Melbourne Hellas or Croatia Sydney feel.
When the league moves away from the Optus websites (which must be soon) can you supply the original text to the club?Quote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
No. Since Duffield Thomas spoke over me at what I was led to believe was an open-mike fan forum, I've no interest in speaking to club admin. Not bitter about it, it is just that their position is clear. They don't want outside opinion or help from the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
The Optus site is not the issue anyway. They can put whatever text they want in there. The FFA don't go in and alter your copy.
You feel the club don't listen?Quote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
I'm certain you're not alone!
It's not that I feel they don't listen. It's just simply that it seems that they treat most people with a complete lack of respect.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
It's a real temptation within a football club to see yourself as more important than you are, and to treat people who support the club as mere commodities and not real people. It's easy for people in a club role who have never been imbedded in a community to be dismissive and aloof concerning it. This is a real problem when footballers become administrators, having never lived outside the bubble of assumed importance.
So it's not about listening, its about being good human beings.
I completely draw the line at that kind of disrespect.
So it's Middleby's fault? I'm in.Quote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
No, I'm not saying anything against Middleby. It's just my observation about the industry having seen footballers move directly into admin or coaching roles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas477
Look, I'm not having a big whinge or anything. I think my main point is that when the club seems to be behaving in a rather superficial manner - such as celebrating the 10 year Jets anniversary rather than the 15 year club anniversary or not supporting supporter coaches as much as they should or coming up with really bad marketing slogans etc, its the job of the club supporters to maintain the real depth of things. Rather than get angry at them and complain that they never seem to get it, wouldn't it be better to just go about things in a real way, being the real heart of the club.Quote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
I think if you try to drag the admin guys into your vision of things by constantly complaining, they may just get their backs up and say "We're in control here, not you" and may thwart your efforts in some ways. Its better to just be humble and go about things in the way you believe is right and kind of slowly educate everyone.
Hopefully they will eventually realise that they are merely custodians of the real community spirit for a period of time.
The one good thing that Phil Stubbins has said is that he wants to change the club culture from the inside. It needs changing. But it would be great if he understood the culture that we want him to represent.
The one thing I think has never been fully articulated is what the wider culture is that we want the Jets to sit in. What is the vision that we want for our football club? Someone should articulate it for the benefit of the whole community. Early founders of Barcelona created the myth of "More than a club". That was a really smart thing to do. We can also have a myth, but the myth has to be one that will bring success. You shouldn't have a myth that creates disharmony or promotes mediocrity.
So to my mind we should make it clear that as members of the Hunter Football community we value:
Stability
Harmony
Quality
Excellence
Community & Heart
Consistency & Sacrifice
Striving for the highest possible goals
Joyful spirit
Humility
I originally also had Success in there but I think if you state that Success is a value, you end up being a Real Madrid type club that thinks that buying success is a legitimate path to take. Success should be the fruit of your endeavours, not something you intrinsically value.
All of these things would be intrinsic to the "More than a club" ideals of FC Barcelona. We have "Never Tear Us Apart" as our perennial slogan. Can that slogan articulate the above ideals, year in and year out? If not, then maybe we need something else to capture it. Maybe we can say that this is the "Spirit of the Hunter".
And if these are the qualities we celebrate they will have implications on how we behave as well as how we judge the behaviour of those within the club.
So if we value Harmony, we should not unduly criticise the club admin or other supporters
So if we value the highest possible goals it should be apparent to everyone that "top six" should never be articulated. The goal should be winning the World Club Challenge. You may say I'm a dreamer but for me its better to dream of this for my club than have my loyalties divided between my local club that can't and my European club that can.
So if we value Stability we should be members (if we can afford it) and support the current owners until they want to sell
So if we value excellence we should celebrate the current and former players of our club and region that have excelled in their careers. Excellence should also be reflected in what we do to support the club, eg. tifo displays should aim for excellence. We can't tell the club to aim for excellence if we don't embody it ourselves.
So if we value Community and Heart, we should interact with the players like we matter, and ignore the people while they look down on us (if the culture is real they will eventually come around).
So if we value a joyful spirit we will be aware that things are going wrong when thing are getting a bit mean spirited. Football should be played with joy and watched with joy. Ultimately, we want this to be fun don't we?
So if we value humility we celebrate that we are a humble community and we are aware when people start getting too big for their boots. That way, everyone can stay grounded.
So if we value consistency we should celebrate it when players never give up in a game, (as Alex Ferguson articulated in his memoirs, he created a myth within ManU that everyone believed that they were a team that never gave up and made people believe that if ManU were behind in a game, the last 15 minutes were going to be hell for the other team) and highlight to them that we recognise that the team seems to always go into a Christmas, New Year slump, which should be unacceptable.
Nice work hauss, trouble is, as you alluded to earlier, it feels like those in the suits don't listen to those in the stands.
So much of what you speak of could start to be achieved/created if they genuinely listened.
As much as I hate to admit it, listening is what WSW did so well.
Well, they really don't have to listen to start with. All we have to do is say, this is what we stand for. These are the values we adopt and they are what we would like you to adopt.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
Look at Never Tear Us Apart. The club didn't embrace it straight away but eventually they did. This is because culture is created by the people, not by those in control. People is suits can't tell people in the stands what to think, how to behave (I'm talking about culture here, not anti-social behaviour).
WSW listen because: Lyall Gorman had to make it a success from day 1, 2. John Tsatsimas is a genuine, nice, humble guy.
But the RBB are taking advantage of that willingness to listen. I think they are in for a rough ride. As I said, the culture is created by the people, so the culture the fans live is the culture they will get.
As fans, what we should ensure is that the culture we want is one that is conducive to success and enjoyment. Active Support in Newcastle already embodies most of these things - for example, you stood strong when anti-social elements started attacking Tim. One of the reasons I really wanted to see football be a success in Newcastle is to be an alternative to the rugby league culture you see at the Knights and the Local rugby league games. We really don't want that brainless, thuggish culture to infiltrate into our game. The Knights can keep that culture to themselves.
Interestingly, FC Barcelona identify their values asQuote:
Originally Posted by hausmann
Respect (Harmony, Community & Heart)
Effort (Consistency & Sacrifice)
Ambition (Quality, Excellence, Striving for the highest possible goals)
Teamwork (Oops, missed this one, I guess it is important :) )
Humility (Humility)
http://www.fcbarcelona.com/club/iden...il/card/values
They don't articulate Stability as a value but I guess they haven't had their club fold multiple times.
They also don't articulate Joyful Spirit as a value but to me it is important to counter the negativity that can invade a club and given the doldrums we have experienced post winning the Championship all those years ago.
It's also interesting to see them so fully articulate the value of Humility, which is what I've been going on about in this thread:
Quote:
Often when athletes, and people in general, achieve the goals they have set themselves, they start feeling superior in physical, moral, economic and other terms, and this leads them to forget certain values that have in all probability helped them to achieved those very goals: effort, perseverance, self-control, etc. We are all aware of how FC Barcelona has dealt with its victories of recent years, and how it has always shown humility (and also such values as effort, rigour, responsibility and others) to win respect in its field, and among its opponents, and generally everyone. Humility probably consists of knowing how to be clear about one’s values, and to maintain them and defend them even in situations where you are clearly superior and more successful.
Why is it though that Knights fans have a far greater admiration and respect for their players than the Jets fans do for theirs ?
It's very rare to hear Knights fans criticise one of their players let alone boo them during a game.
For Jets fans booing players and constantly criticising them is common and pretty much considered acceptable.