yeh misread it, post gone....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
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yeh misread it, post gone....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
Does anyone have the grading spreadsheet for this year? Trying to sneep my peepers
what grade are you after?
Unsure of what grade, after Shortland though
I'll assume you're talking about All Age men
Div.
J
Largs 3/3
Scone 3/3
Dudley Juniors 1/1
Cardiff City 2/2
Charlestown 2/2
South Wallsend 2/3
Maryland Fletcher 3/3
Shortland 1/2
Div.
K
Dungog 1/1
Gresford 2/2
Maitland 1/1
Metford 1/1
Fletcher 2/2
Raymond Terrace 1/1
South Wallsend 3/3
Shortland 2/2
Scone is a nightmare to have in a comp, they're guaranteed a finals place because half the games they have at home will be forfeited.
It's also a nightmare getting them early on. It's probably an unpopular opinion but I think the first 3 or 4 rounds should be away games for them. They'll make it up on the back end but it might limit some of the forfeits early on.
Last year we got the draw a week before the season and had Scone week 2. Between working commitments and parenting commitments we couldn't even form a team due to how far away and late the game was. If we had more notice we'd have happily gone up there though, probably even stayed the night and boost the community with beer money. But a fortnight is just too little time to organise.
I guess an alternative would be to get results draw out earlier than a week before the season starts.
Ah fck I think J is my comp. Might have to hire a minibus for the Scone trip.
Who do you play for Evolution? My team is the charlestown team in J. First season at Charlestown though, we've been at south Cardiff the few years previous.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolution
Cardiff CityQuote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
I’ll make sure we have a box of Kleenex ready for you if you don’t forfeit.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
Our zone league squad had Muswellbrook in our division last year. Scone is another 20 minutes up the highway, so it's a greater challenge.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
For mine, teams need to embrace the challenge of taking on these teams away.
Our team had to play Muswellbrook away twice, including a midweek catch-up game with reserves at 6.30 and first grade at 8 ( more like 8.10). This was extremely tough, especially as we only had 17 for both grades despite having 20 available the day before the game. What was disappointing for me was the 2 or so players that made themselves unavailable for no real reason at all. This would happen in most teams.
I think the key thing is to remember is that Scone has to do the long trips every 2nd game.
I get the away proposal for the first 3-4 games, but is that fair? Teams could turn around a forfeit to them at the end of the season if they can't make the finals. Character building I reckon
My team wanted to embrace it. When we saw the grading spreadsheet we were pumped for a weekend away. Two weeks is just too little notice to make it possible. Hence my suggestion of either getting the draw out earlier or making the first three games (which is potentially only one extra game) away games.
We also noticed last time that the teams that didn't have a chance of making the finals forfeited at the end of the season too. Just doesn't seem too fair on Scone either, they pay their (possibly exuberant costs) like the rest of us do. Why not put them in K instead of J so they're playing predominantly Hunter Valley teams that are less likely to forfeit so they actually get some more bang for their buck.
@mge61 that's really sweet of you 🥰
So just clarifying here, it's really hard for your team to travel there just the one time in Rd 2, but you're OK with them travelling the first 3 or 4 games?
Scone teams go into the comp, and life in general, knowing that they're two hours away from the rest of the world
other teams don't have the logistics set up already and it's a bit of a challenge to ask people to add an extra four hours to their Saturday recreation time when they've got other commitments, particularly kids
there should be a separate competition for the Upper Hunter, that way everyone reduces travel times
for teams down at the southern end, they'd be better off playing in Sydney than travelling to Scone (note that they can't play against Central Coast teams, who aren't in the FFA and are also probably nazi pedoes, or even worse Mariners fans)
Some how I accidentally deleted my response when I tried to edit it, but essentially, yes that is 100% what I'm saying.
The issue isn't with the travelling itself so much as the logistics of being able to organise life (work, babysitting, etc.) Around it on such short notice.
From my perspective, I think it would be easier to organise playing Scone, Muswellbrook and Dungog away for the first 3 rounds if I knew that's what was happening from February when we sign up, then it is to organise one game out to Scone with only 2 weeks notice.
As such, I think if you made Scone play the first 3 games away (really only 1 extra away game) every season, then as soon as they signed their team up they could start organising appropriately. This potentially helps to limit forfeits against them too, which if I was in Scone and paying $30/game (assume their rego is similar to ours) I'd want to minimise forfeits too.
Alternatively, the associations could get the draw out say 3 or 4 weeks before the comp starts instead of 1 and then everyone would have a greater ability to plan ahead, but I'm sure if it was that simple, the associations would already be doing that.
For what it's worth, I work a 9-5, getting up to Scone week 2 isn't actually an issue for me, but as a team, we had 9 who couldn't free themselves up for 4hrs of travel for a 3pm game on 2 weeks notice. And it wasn't a case of them just being too far away and planning on forfeiting any game up there, we were legitimately looking forward to a boys weekend away, 2 weeks notice was just logistically impossible for us to facilitate.
your original post (can't restore it for some reason):
and yes we're saying the same thing, we basically typed at the same time so I hadn't seen your post when writing mineQuote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
Scone and Muswellbrook teams pay their rego and should be looked after just as much as any other club if not more. These guys travel every second week one and a half to two hours down to Newcastle/Lake Macquarie and people want to complain about travelling that long once a season. Get over yourselves!
Where's the empathy for clubs like Scone, they've paid their money for a full season and yet when teams forfeit out of ignorance towards the end of the season because they can't make the semis and couldn't be bothered to make the trip, they don't get their full complement of matches paid for. NNSW Community Football is not just in Newcastle and Lake Macquarie!
Empathy doesn't get teams in cars heading up the Expressway, practical solutions do. If Upper Hunter clubs want to play against Newy and Lake Mac clubs then there needs to be some thought about the realities of life, namely that in All Age and O35s football is something that can really quickly get pushed down the list of priorities. Happy wife and kids vs taking a possible 7hrs out of your day to play mid grade footy in Scone with minimal notice at the start of the season? That's a quick decision for most blokes.
Scone have 3 grades, play Zone. Those comps will be at least a bit more committed and much less likely to forfeit.
Where do you define Upper Hunter? Singleton? But then they’re Greta’s second closest club, cut off Greta, then that’s Lochinvar’s second closest club, and so on. And then do those clubs have enough players for each grade, or will you have u/12s playing against u/16s, and will those comps be somewhat balanced, or will you have 4 a grade sides against 4 j grade? But then if its okay for juniors to play across the region, why not all age? I’ll also note that you’re apparently in cooks hill which is literally one of the furthest clubs from Scone in the region, if you’re out in the suburbs or Maitland, it’s not that bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen
As for Scone joining ZL, that’s a much higher level of commitment for everyone up there, plus more expensive. Just seems like a lot of sour grapes because you get inconvenienced once, or maybe twice a season, but you’re more than happy to inconvenience them.
Last time I looked it was a combined competition from 3 associations not just Newcastle and Lake Mac. If you’re defining Hunter Valley as Scone/Muswellbrook better have another look.
easy solution would be to cap travel time to one hour for over 35s and AA beyond the serious grades
How would you define 1 hour travel time? NF struggle to get the grading out on time at the moment, let alone having to google maps all the distances. And then having to rejig the comp because 1 team has to travel 1 hour and 1 minute per google. And what about matchday, do teams pull the plug if they’re stuck in traffic and have to travel more than 1 hour?Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
I’m all for sensibility for Friday night comps, but Saturday’s you know you’re signing up to play in the inter district leagues, which includes Scone, Southern Lakes (if they still exist), Swansea, Nelson Bay, Cessnock etc, if you don’t want to travel, go and play 5 a side.
If the ground is further than the time it takes to finish your half strength soy latte then it is deemed out of area perhaps
The best outcome is obviously to have a Hunter valley all age division where teams from Scone, Muswellbrook, Singleton, Cessnock etc could participate in. As long as there grades around the same level, which I'm sure would occur.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndclasscitizen
At the end of the day, the draws and gradings are done. Teams that have Scone in their competition should realise that they potentially could have to go to Scone in the early rounds. It's done, everyone needs to make an attempt to make it work. I realise for some that maybe difficult, But we all know that there are players in all teams that will make some crappy excuse not to go.
Scone have every right to play in the all Age competition, Football needs to be promoted and encouraged in the upper valley. It's probably the only time some players will ever stop in Scone.
I have always said the more teams playing zone the better. If that includes Scone then good, More teams the better. Maybe with no Muswellbrook in zone this year some of their players are playing with Scone? But I think saying 3 grades, play zone is a little short sighted.
Or the easy solution is to put the fixtures out much earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
Comp starts in a month, have them out this week.
Just to be very clear because people seem to not get it; I'm not arguing with anyone that Scone shouldn't be able to play in an interdistrict league, I'm not arguing that Scone should have to play more away games than everyone else, or that people shouldn't expect to travel when they sign up to an interdistrict league.
My entire argument is that there are smarter and arguably fairer ways for everyone (people from Scone and those in the cities) to incorporate Scone in to the competition to ensure fair play opportunities for everyone.
The current issues seem to be:
1. Games in the first 2-3 weeks are incredibly difficult for adults to be able to get to with such short notice.
2. People don't want to travel to Scone in the later rounds because they're out of contention.
Potential opportunities for improvement for problem 1 would be:
* Get the draw out with 3 or 4 weeks notice so that the minimum amount of forewarning that teams have that they need to travel to Scone is a month
* Play the first 2-3 games for Scone away from home every year, this way they could know that would be the case from February and start organising their lives accordingly. This would not result in less home games, just a different distribution.
* Create a Hunter Valley League, I don't know why they don't just do this, you could easily put Scone in K grade and solve half of these issues.
* At the very least, make whoever has to play Scone at home in round 2 be the closest team (in the current Div J that would be Largs)
Potential opportunities for improvement for problem 2:
* make the last 3 games of the season Away games that way it's up to Scone as to whether they're forfeiting or not (which hopefully they wouldn't want to)
* I'm not really sure what else you can do to solve that problem.
So I guess if we were to work on the idea that the scheduling can't for whatever reason (I'm not informed enough to know why so won't judge) come out earlier, then I would think the best compromise for any division with Scone (unless a HV specific league) would be:
* first 2 rounds are away
* round 3 would be a home game against whoever is the closest team
*Rounds 4-11 would see 2 away games and 7 home games, possibly a 2-1-3-1-2 set up or whatever
* Rounds 12-14 all away games.
- Minimises the risk of forfeits due to logistical issues early on
- Minimises the risk of forfeits due to not being competitive on the back end
That’s it in a nutshell right?
Any team in HV, Macquarie or NPS can enter the comp.
Maybe they could set aside 2-3 HV only comps of varying competitiveness for those teams up there that don’t want a 2 hour road trip every 2nd week. But if they wanna make the trip regularly, fair play to them.
Would be interesting to see how many teams would opt for a district only competition if offered to each district.
Apart from that, I agree releasing a draw a bit earlier would definitely be preferable and help.
At the end of the day, teams are flakey, a lot have families, work and other commitments and playing football is just a bit of fun. Similar to playing a hacking team intent on injuring players, making long road trips that take up most of your day don’t really satisfy the effort/risk to reward ratio.
It’d be interesting to see the rate of forfeits of the years with these clubs involved to see if there is actually a long term issue here, or if it’s just the odd team here and there.
There is plenty of good points in your argument, The association's will always consider requests. But things won't change due to points and ideas posted on the forum. If people feel strongly about it contact your club around October and put a request in regarding a hunter valley division. It makes perfect sense to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
I don't entirely agree with that. A club in isolation will have no impact. A post on a forum, while not directly achieving anything does at least get the thought processes shared across multiple people from multiple clubs and even some people that seem to have sway at an association level.
So I would say open discussions on things like this in a public forum probably is important to help facilitate any change.
agree that the discussion is positive - but the way to actually get this to occur is to get the clubs in the Upper Hunter talking and agreeing on what they want, then going as a united group to the Hunter Association and the zones
there have been Upper Hunter grades in previous years (proof here showing an AA U.HV grade) - it might be worth finding out why they stopped doing them
All I'm saying there is a few reactive comments, It's probably time for somebody to be proactive and raise these issues. As boz has already mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by gibsonmcqueen
Fixtures are coming out mid to late next week
Thanks for the heads up.Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
Anyone managed to get in a trial game? We have been washed out every week.
we had one back in February, washed out every game since then
Total crap that the draw comes out a little over a week before season starts.
We often organise to have a trial game at speeds point. Costs about $20/person for ground hire but guaranteed not to get washed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
draw is up
Clubs want to nominate for higher grades, they don't want to be playing the same HVF teams each year. If you win your HVF Division with high points and GD, why shouldn't you be promoted into the next div?Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
See you round 6 Evolution!Quote:
Originally Posted by evolution
Glad to not have Scone away until later in the season, looking forward to sampling some of the pubs finest post game 👍
They also have only 2 home games in the last 6 games which should help them not have as many forfeits against them which is good; help them get their money's worth.
Lambton Jaffas all age B grade (Saturday) are chasing a goalkeeper for 2022 after our fella has had to pull out.
Long shot but if anyone is interested please contact Brock on 0432000111