The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

Look at the development of the honeysuckle area it has improved from previous woolsheds.... you have 4/6 rail lines heading down a corridor for an area that makes no sense for such trains....

My personal oppionion for the whole thing is make a hub for sydney and hunter trains in the hamilton area with a light rail service running into town...

I currently live in switzerland and have travelled quite alot the world.... a main hub in hamilton (area) at a potential part of where a high speed terminal could be would be the way to go....


the entire area can be revitalised parks, buildings, social area that makes it inviting to come to newcastle... We have a new economy to build if we just keep going as is... more buildings for the people that want to keep the old ones will lay dormant and then will cost even more to renovate etc etc etc.....


I grew up in muswellbrook and caught the train into newcastle on the occasion.... For me i would see no problem having to change train and jump in another... thats what public transport is, not door to door same car service...

with the potential of light rail in the city it could take one potentially closer to where you actually want to go.....


The biggest issue would be timetabling... which in this case for the light rail should not be the train runs at this time this this time but always every 10/15 mins. forwards backwards all day long...


Also for ye green people the train that comes from muswellbrook is a diesel engine... it would reduce the amount of fumes within that area too :P


this hasn't been collated and written in a proper response, just a few info ideas thrown together... whilst being bored in a pathology lecture...


If needed will respond next time with more developed answer...

I've got no issue with the rail being removed, intact I think its a positive if done right.

But, its not being done right.

It shouldn't be removed until the light rail is planned, and implemented. The light rail needs to run between the uni and the CBD as a minimum with the options to add in more suburbs in the future. I also don't think where they are cutting the line is the appropriate place. The interchange needs to be in either Broadmeadow or even better the Junction near warabrook would be more appropriate.

Having an interchange in itself shouldn't pose a major issue to people moving from heavy to light rail, but again you need a good interchange to make it work. In Europe there is many examples of transport interchanges where going from one mode to another of transport is an effortless and seamless process. What I have seen of the plans here fall well short.

The problem we have is that the transport being implemented to replace the heavy rail, is being done half arsed. This could be done right and and would be a massive improvement on what we have, but its not being planned properly.

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Originally Posted by sammydog

I've got no issue with the rail being removed, intact I think its a positive if done right.

But, its not being done right.

The problem we have is that the transport being implemented to replace the heavy rail, is being done half arsed. This could be done right and and would be a massive improvement on what we have, but its not being planned properly.

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exactly. why spend millions and millions on replacing a train with a train?
seems a bit daft.

But its a start!!!! things can then be adapted appropriatly... if we keep the discussion oh its not the optimal, oh but what this this this.... we will have the same infrastructure in 70 years...


Look at the basket case that is public transport in Sydney... Something should have been done 10-20-30 years ago but nothing... discussion was always no we should do it like this what about this....


We should just stick with the now decision and work with it.... nothing can be perfect....


Hell even the design of hunter stadium in areas are crap... but it got done....

I disagree, the problem is, once the rail is cut and we get the half arsed solution, we are never going to see the funds to build it to an efficient public transport system.

Look at the Newcastle Inner City Bypass, how long has this taken to complete since the first stage at uni commenced (without factoring in when the road was originally planned). After the initial replacement for the rail we will see no improvement to the public transport which is why it needs to be don properly the first time.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see the rail cut. It needs to go and I even have no issue with controlled development on some of the existing corridor (particularly to the western ends). But the way it is being done is piecemeal at best and is going to see a very poor outcome. They haven't even effectively planned the replacement busses and timetables for when the line is cut in a few weeks. This detail should be thought out well in advance of cutting the rail, not cut first work out the details later.

This is a huge opportunity for newcastle that is rapidly becoming an opportunity lost.

but its also an opportunity lost if we dont do anything for another 5-10 years... short term pain long term gain.

Don't kid yourself that this will get upgraded on the short to medium term (or even long term) once the rail is cut.

Once the money allocated to the project from the port sell off is spent, that's all we are getting. Newcastle will never be as valuable to politicians as that other regional centre, western Sydney.

To be honest, it wouldn't take 5-10 years to an a proper solution if the will was there. There isn't and while I want the rail gone I do question the govt's motives for doing so. They aren't coming back in the future to expand the light rail. What we get is what we get and its selling us short.

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Originally Posted by sammydog

Don't kid yourself that this will get upgraded on the short to medium term (or even long term) once the rail is cut.

Once the money allocated to the project from the port sell off is spent, that's all we are getting. Newcastle will never be as valuable to politicians as that other regional centre, western Sydney.

To be honest, it wouldn't take 5-10 years to an a proper solution if the will was there. There isn't and while I want the rail gone I do question the govt's motives for doing so. They aren't coming back in the future to expand the light rail. What we get is what we get and its selling us short.

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Rail line needs to stay.

Services need to be restored to Cessnock, extended to Taree and frequencies increased to 15 minutes from all directions.

I'll do a proper proposal this afternoon

I couldn't agree more with restoring Cessnock and to a lesser extent extending to Taree. Public transport in this area, if you want to go anywhere other than Newcastle LGA and the north and eastern parts of Lake Mac, is shite. Even getting a bus around town takes 10 years to get from point A to point B.

Where we would differ is I would then prefer them to run to a central hub (Broadmeadow or Warabrook) from which light rail and bus runs into the suburbs and city.

The way I see it though, what we are getting is the worst option. I'd prefer the rail stay to what is proposed.

I'm in the cut the line camp

BUT...

I'll throw it out there and say that I think the fernleigh track is the biggest waste of money in the history of newy. Should be a tram line ffs. Run another to Wallsend via uni, the nock via maitland and Kurri and from the truncation point (Broadmeadow or Woodville Junction) through newy to port stephens and the airport.

If you're gonna do a job, do it properly ffs

Skirt Boys Urban Planning brought to you by the Bauhaus University.


1. Restore Heavy rail to Cessnock and Minmi and extend services to Taree.

2. Restore the "Minmi-Cessnock Circle to open the area for the expansion of Newcastle towards Cessnock/Maitland.

4. Heavy Rail to Nelson Bay via Raymond Terrace, Airport, Medowie

3. Depending on factors. The line to Belmont should be rebuilt and extended to Swansea. Preferably heavy rail but light rail will suffice.

4. Light rail/trams to Merewether via the old Burwood line. Light rail to Charlestown via the old Gully Line. Light rail to Killingworth via Uni/wallsend/West Wallsend

5. High Speed ferry services in Lake Macquarie.

6. Scrap the existing bus network. From each heavy rail station have smaller radial networks to the surrounding areas. Only maintain bus services to Newcastle where it's not feasible to build rail.

7. Heavy rail services to be run every 5 minutes in the peak from Cessnock, Maitland, Morriset and Nelson Bay. 30 Minutes from Taree, Scone, Gosford.

8. Light rail to run every 10 minutes.

9. Bus network to run every 10 minutes.

10. Put a competitive tender out for the construction and operation of the the Newcastle United Transport Services. Corporate branding to be Green, Brown and White.

11. As opposed to ticketing. A levy is applied to each household on a the number of people resident. For people not residing within the area of Service of NUTS single day tickets for $10.00 can be purchased from machines or ticket inspectors on board services.

A better solution is to move the entire city of Newcastle to.......

The state government have not set aside any funding for light rail in Newcastle.

Therefore, at this stage of the game any talk from politicians about light rail is little more than a lie.

The only problem with railways is decreasing returns to scale. In other words, the larger the network becomes the less efficient it will be.

This is why the beancounter types hate railways.

And this is one of the big problems in this country. Even government services need to be profitable instead of simply being a service.

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Originally Posted by De-Champ

A better solution is to move the entire city of Newcastle to.......

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Actually, that is a very legitimate question.

Should we be focussed on the newcastle CBD as the focal point for Newcastle and the Hunter business or is revitalising it akin to pushing shit up hill?

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Originally Posted by Skirt Boy

And this is one of the big problems in this country. Even government services need to be profitable instead of simply being a service.

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Since we pay $$$ in tax shouldn't these dimwits provide the services we require as a society and then just charge us accordingly as opposed to this way of thinking where spending money on community services is deemed as some type of imposition on the government having to pay for it??

tax goes to federal......

but im pissed of is that people are getting so vocal about the current government not doing anything... when more has been done project wise in this state then in the previous 10-20 years......

allegiances aside...

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Originally Posted by Skirt Boy

And this is one of the big problems in this country. Even government services need to be profitable instead of simply being a service.

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The sadder part is that the reason why govt services are generally so poorly run is because they are run by governments.

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Originally Posted by sammydog

Actually, that is a very legitimate question.

Should we be focussed on the newcastle CBD as the focal point for Newcastle and the Hunter business or is revitalising it akin to pushing shit up hill?

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Well now that we are stopping people getting to the CBD and capping building heights so no one can come live here anyway, we may as well throw a match on it and start again.

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Originally Posted by plague

The sadder part is that the reason why govt services are generally so poorly run is because they are run by governments.

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That's an ideological perspective which numerous empirical studies have proven to be false.

The biggest creators or red tape and compliance are the private sector not governments.

Joe Hockey found this out the hard way when he commissioned a report into productivity in Australia using Deloitte [Chris Richardson and friends].

The report was released at the end of October 2014 and anyone wanting to register at http://www2.deloitte.com/au/en/pages...r-own-way.html can have a good laugh at neo-liberal ideology chocking itself to death.

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by laying down the law – imposing rules on ourselves – in areas as diverse as human resources (HR), information technology (IT), finance, legal, marketing and executive governance.

The time required for employees to comply with self-imposed rules has become a crippling burden. Middle managers and senior executives are chalking up 8.9 hours a week complying with the rules corporates set for themselves, with other staff spending 6.4 hours.

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Estimates suggest that reducing this self imposed compliance would add around 1.6% to GDP.

The biggest problem with neo-liberals in general is that they build models based on ideological assumptions rather than facts and then wonder why they tie themselves in knots.