2024 Premier Youth Leagues

Update for Div 2 and 3

Div 2
1. Weston (12MP) - 28pts
2. Mid Coast (10MP) - 17pts
3. Charlestown (15MP) - 17pts
4. Cooks Hill (10MP) - 16pts
5. New Lambton (9MP) - 15pts
6. Rosebuds (10MP) - 12pts
7. Belswans (14MP) - 12Pts
8. South Cardiff (10MP) - 11Pts

I made a manual adjustment of a result series I know about from this weekend (Charlestown Vs Mid Coast) that does not appear on Squadi.

(Top 4 rejoins tier 1 for phase 1 2025...which makes it the most interesting division to keep track of)

Div 3
1. NIAS (12MP) - 28Pts
2. West Wallsend (13MP) - 28Pts
3. Kahibah (10MP) - 22Pts
4. Toronto (12MP) - 14Pts
5. Cessnock (10MP) - 12Pts
6. Thornton (9MP) - 7Pts
7. Singleton (14MP) - 4Pts

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

Some clubs will show loyalty to a kid that has played his whole life at a club, rather than drop him for a better player.

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Originally Posted by Taffy

Not sure why this is a bad thing for a club to do.

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I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

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Originally Posted by Addios

I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

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If you elevate more clubs and teams under the PYL label the clubs and federation can charge more in fees and rego. I hope you have seen the footage of Craig Johnson at the Jets awards last night as its the comments parents are too scared to say and get their kid shunned by Northern. I would have loved to see what Peter Haynes response was too.

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Originally Posted by Addios

I thought PYL was a best of the best and community the loyalty brand. When did this change?

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You thought wrong, very wrong.

Expansion is great. The more kids that can access facilities and coaching, the better chance more kids fulfil their potential.

The problem for me is competition identity.

What is PYL? Is it a competition for the best in the region to train and play as competitively as they can? Is it a development league for everyone? Is it only for select clubs?

In 5 years time, this feels like it will almost replace community football as we know it, and in doing so, become community football. Do you then need specialised comp for those elite players?

I don’t know what the answer is. As I said, more coaching, more games, more professionalism and opportunities for those who seek it, can’t be a bad thing right.

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

Expansion is great. The more kids that can access facilities and coaching, the better chance more kids fulfil their potential.

The problem for me is competition identity.

What is PYL? Is it a competition for the best in the region to train and play as competitively as they can? Is it a development league for everyone? Is it only for select clubs?

In 5 years time, this feels like it will almost replace community football as we know it, and in doing so, become community football. Do you then need specialised comp for those elite players?

I don?t know what the answer is. As I said, more coaching, more games, more professionalism and opportunities for those who seek it, can?t be a bad thing right.

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I totally agree with your statement above as its gradually turning into overpriced community football and we will go round and round again to name the next big idea 'Super League' as all parents have heard that name before havent they. IMO this is a money grab or NNSW dont have the b@lls to say no to clubs as many clubs already in PYL/JDL cant field full teams but they are willing to introduce more.

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Originally Posted by Retired01

If you elevate more clubs and teams under the PYL label the clubs and federation can charge more in fees and rego. I hope you have seen the footage of Craig Johnson at the Jets awards last night as its the comments parents are too scared to say and get their kid shunned by Northern. I would have loved to see what Peter Haynes response was too.

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What did he say? Is it recorded anywhere? :)

Also, side note, I noticed today the girls teams play more often then the boys...8 teams play each other 3 times for the season...and yet, we have 18s in div 3 will get a grand total of 14 games for the year

Ive never understood the money complaint.Mates of mine playing All Age on a friday night pay around the $500 mark.They get 14-16 games on bad grounds at all hours of the night,no kit,not many refs,no coaches and very little access to training grounds (1x a week sharing a field with many other teams).PYL from my experience is around the $1500 mark and the kids get between 25-35 games (inc trials/finals/cups),the best facilites,kit,coaching,2-3 nights training a week.It represents value when compared to other levels.Soccer as a sport is definitely more expensive than others thats for sure,but dont hang that on the PYL program.

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

What is PYL?

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Personally I see it as a stepping stone between community and the 0.1% of kids who fancy they can make a living out of it.The most important part is having the levels (community/YPL/TSP/Jets) be as close as possible to each other so kids and clubs can flow from one to the other as easily as possible.This is so any kids showing talent can progress upwards and any kids not quite cutting it have a level to drop into that keeps them in the system but somewhere more appropriate.Thats why I personally like community clubs entering the knockout cup and the PYL breaking from 2 tiers into 3 mid year.The more it all overlaps the better idea every clubs gets as to what it takes to improve.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Personally I see it as a stepping stone between community and the 0.1% of kids who fancy they can make a living out of it.The most important part is having the levels (community/YPL/TSP/Jets) be as close as possible to each other so kids and clubs can flow from one to the other as easily as possible.This is so any kids showing talent can progress upwards and any kids not quite cutting it have a level to drop into that keeps them in the system but somewhere more appropriate.Thats why I personally like community clubs entering the knockout cup and the PYL breaking from 2 tiers into 3 mid year.The more it all overlaps the better idea every clubs gets as to what it takes to improve.

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Agree they should be as close as possible to each other, and movement between the tiers should be as fluid as possible (disagree on the mid season split though as discussed previously...but that plus a home and away phase 2 would go a long way to equalising the number of games to Sydney's standard)

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

I do see this as a big problem. (And it doesn't matter what the o35s are getting (over)charged, as well)

The problem of paywalling opportunities.

If the desire is to develop the best kids and give them the best opportunities to make the most of their talents, as they can develop the furthest. Those with the talent and drive won't necessarily come from backgrounds who can justify that cost and so we've already limited them.

The US realised this was a major issue a couple of years ago, (we're both part of the select few countries who operate in such a way). Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

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There are plenty of clubs charging less than $2k but it brings up a good point.If money is a factor then look around.Its been said time and again there are clubs in Div 2 and 3 that have really good coaches/cultures and facilities and dont charge that kind of money.A lot of parents would rather pay the extra and sacrifice a lot of the other stuff if their child has a chance of winning a trophy.And thats ok to look at it that way,but I think theres really good value if you shop around.Who knows,if good kids reject clubs based on price then it may make the consider what they are charging.As for Jets/Mariners etc.Im not involved in that level so cant speak if its value or not.Like everyone id love to see a system where the best kids make it that far without money being a factor.Sadly we seem to quite a fair way off that happening.

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

Agree they should be as close as possible to each other, and movement between the tiers should be as fluid as possible (disagree on the mid season split though as discussed previously...but that plus a home and away phase 2 would go a long way to equalising the number of games to Sydney's standard)

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

I do see this as a big problem. (And it doesn't matter what the o35s are getting (over)charged, as well)

The problem of paywalling opportunities.

If the desire is to develop the best kids and give them the best opportunities to make the most of their talents, as they can develop the furthest. Those with the talent and drive won't necessarily come from backgrounds who can justify that cost and so we've already limited them.

The US realised this was a major issue a couple of years ago, (we're both part of the select few countries who operate in such a way). Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

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This year:
Jets - $2250 + training kit, jackets, etc.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

There are plenty of clubs charging less than $2k but it brings up a good point.If money is a factor then look around.Its been said time and again there are clubs in Div 2 and 3 that have really good coaches/cultures and facilities and dont charge that kind of money.A lot of parents would rather pay the extra and sacrifice a lot of the other stuff if their child has a chance of winning a trophy.And thats ok to look at it that way,but I think theres really good value if you shop around.Who knows,if good kids reject clubs based on price then it may make the consider what they are charging.As for Jets/Mariners etc.Im not involved in that level so cant speak if its value or not.Like everyone id love to see a system where the best kids make it that far without money being a factor.Sadly we seem to quite a fair way off that happening.

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People often talk about the lack of player talent, but I think the lack of coaching talent is the bigger issue...the change of finding a too coach in div 2 or 3 would be exceptionally rare.

Then, the quality of opposition they face as well is a limiting factor as well.

I think too, defining what is a good coach isn't easy and is varied based on age group too...i.e. a good trainer, a good tactician, ability to inspire A+ performances from people (or bully it).

But, this is why I am constantly advocating for pro/rel by age group...because, if (say) Toronto, or NIAS has a great coach and inspired kids in an age group, they should be playing against the toughest opposition available and not dragged down to a club average...and that club should then be able to build many more successes out of that improving their brand positioning, etc.

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P.S. thanks Aegon for the costings...I really hope your boy is recovering well, I heard he got hurt quite badly so wishing a speedy recovery :)

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

On your fees comment though...PYL fees seem to be about $2000 here (for a season of, at best, 18 games, we shouldn't count trials etc). Not all the facilities are equal, or even a decent quality.

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Depends on the club some clubs are only charging $1,000 which includes the kit.

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I don't know what the Jets charge, but was told Mariners is $3700 this year (for a season of 30 games)...as an academy that might be on the high side for FNSW, but Jets are probably something similar...

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FNSW has a cap that clubs can charge, most clubs charge that cap and then make extra by telling kids they have to go do additional training with the coaches that isn't part of the official training nights.

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Their response was that the elite clubs began to offer full scholarships to the the most talented kids as a way to keep those with the highest potential within the sport, and along a developmental pathway.

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A-League Clubs alone are struggling to make money, can't see them giving free rego any time soon

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

What did he say? Is it recorded anywhere? :)

Also, side note, I noticed today the girls teams play more often then the boys...8 teams play each other 3 times for the season...and yet, we have 18s in div 3 will get a grand total of 14 games for the year

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I tried t find the video on FB again and I guess its been taken down so I will try my best to quote from what I heard but please dont think its exact.

Why is it it NNSW hasnt produced a socceroo in 24 years and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for what the kids get as the last person to be a socceroo was Robbie Middleby. He called out Peter Haynes and then said yes Peter I can see you talking but why dont you listen instead. If anyone can find the footage please post it.

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Originally Posted by Retired01

I tried t find the video on FB again and I guess its been taken down so I will try my best to quote from what I heard but please dont think its exact.

Why is it it NNSW hasnt produced a socceroo in 24 years and they charge ridiculous amounts of money for what the kids get as the last person to be a socceroo was Robbie Middleby. He called out Peter Haynes and then said yes Peter I can see you talking but why dont you listen instead. If anyone can find the footage please post it.

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Hero!

Does anyone know if the mission statement of Northern is to develop elite players (should be)

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Originally Posted by Taffy

FNSW has a cap that clubs can charge, most clubs charge that cap and then make extra by telling kids they have to go do additional training with the coaches that isn't part of the official training nights.

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I think this is a big one in Sydney. I’ve heard it mentioned before as optional but if you aren’t paying for these sessions your kid rides the bench and will struggle to be retained at seasons end.

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Originally Posted by Taffy

A-League Clubs alone are struggling to make money, can't see them giving free rego any time soon

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WSW do pay their players fees.

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Originally Posted by WOW2.0

P.S. thanks Aegon for the costings...I really hope your boy is recovering well, I heard he got hurt quite badly so wishing a speedy recovery :)

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Thanks, it was a nasty one to see that?s for sure. All in all though the recovery is nowhere near what I have seen for other boys even in the same age group and his pain is pretty manageable already.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

This year:
Jets - $2250 + training kit, jackets, etc.

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Raw cost. Plus $100 (at least) in petrol a week...

Which brings me to what is missing from this chat. Are the kids having fun and developing a lifelong love of football? That's the end goal. 99% won't make it so what are we doing to make sure the rest are the players, coaches, refs, volunteers of the future? They have to enjoy it. Is 200+ hours/year in the car the right option for kids? Yes it's stronger competition but is it worth it?

I don't think Newcastle has the resources to support more than about 10 teams at PYL level. And by resources I mean players, coaches, training facilities, refs, volunteers. IMO stick with 10 fixed Division 1 clubs, filter the talent (players and coaches) there rather than dilute it across more and more teams. If there are players at the right level bashing the door down and every club has full squads (not the case now) then look at expansion.

Get the Jets in Newy somehow and have multiple NNSW squads playing school holidays tournaments/round robins.

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Originally Posted by Largesse

Raw cost. Plus $100 (at least) in petrol a week...

Which brings me to what is missing from this chat. Are the kids having fun and developing a lifelong love of football? That's the end goal. 99% won't make it so what are we doing to make sure the rest are the players, coaches, refs, volunteers of the future? They have to enjoy it. Is 200+ hours/year in the car the right option for kids? Yes it's stronger competition but is it worth it?

I don't think Newcastle has the resources to support more than about 10 teams at PYL level. And by resources I mean players, coaches, training facilities, refs, volunteers. IMO stick with 10 fixed Division 1 clubs, filter the talent (players and coaches) there rather than dilute it across more and more teams. If there are players at the right level bashing the door down and every club has full squads (not the case now) then look at expansion.

Get the Jets in Newy somehow and have multiple NNSW squads playing school holidays tournaments/round robins.

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Agree with most points. I know quite a few struggle with the intensity over a long period of time. Still love it but longevity isnt there.

Playing up a year in NPL here would be ok with 8 to 10 teams but it would be important to get those tournaments with Sydney teams in.

I dont think NNSW could be bothered organising it plus they dont want to lose their NPL1 place with NSW.