Jones is Out (pg 49)

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Firstly, you are absolutely on crack if you think Roman bought Chelsea because he wants the city to have a wonderful football club. He is a powerful Russian businessman who spend his money keeping his mate Putin in power. He was one of the biggest Russian names to come out and start showing Russians as 'modern business men' but he is just a face of an ogliarchy doing very well for itself. He bought your club as a strategic move to bring himself notoriety and status. Which is the same as Usmanov wants to do at Arsenal. Kroenke only owns us because we are a piece in his portfolio. Same as the Glaziers, Fenway Sports, Shiek Mansour and most of the other club owners. It builds their status in their own country and increases their bargaining power.

That doesn't mean they don't want that business to succeed, of course they do. As does Mr Lee. I'm just saying that at this stage we are succeeding so why would he want to throw millions at us? Which is what is going to cost long-term to fix every problem that we have.

I'm with the member when he says we need to take it slowly and fix this club from the top to the bottom, or bottom to top, or East to West or whatever order it happens in. Paying Jones out just starts a new problem that will hit us again in 12 months. If Lee sorts out the backroom a bit better, and probably cleans out the top end of the squad then a new manager right now makes sense. But just changing manager by itself won't fix the problem long-term.

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He may have at the start but he grew to love the club. Dont be angry cause Arsenal's owners are treating you like a cash cow

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

You completely missed the mark. My point was why show off a football club that isn't winning games and lifting trophies? Has nought to do with the fans.

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Same point still from my perspective. He still gets to show off that he owns a football club in Australia to all his friends. But yes he would be much prouder and i'm being very cynical in thinking that he doesn't care about us, i just haven't seen anything to think that he cares about us more than the rest of his assets.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Same point still from my perspective. He still gets to show off that he owns a football club in Australia to all his friends. But yes he would be much prouder and i'm being very cynical in thinking that he doesn't care about us, i just haven't seen anything to think that he cares about us more than the rest of his assets.

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We all have to wait to see how much money he spends. Mckinna's words last night on NBN mean **** all until we see some actual spending. Mckinna didn't seem to realise we've heard this all before.

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

He may have at the start but he grew to love the club. Dont be angry cause Arsenal's owners are treating you like a cash cow

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Stanny must have have found some of the old Koolaid we had lying around and it's turned. If Stanny hands you a cup and tells you how much he loves Chelsea DO NOT DRINK THE KOOLAID.

Can somone please pick up a fresh batch of magical Koolaid ready for the off-season, once we make 1 good signing you know 80% of us chumps will be back on here dreaming about the promise land of 6th place, haha.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Stanny must have have found some of the old Koolaid we had lying around and it's turned. If Stanny hands you a cup and tells you how much he loves Chelsea DO NOT DRINK THE KOOLAID.

Can somone please pick up a fresh batch of magical Koolaid ready for the off-season, once we make 1 good signing you know 80% of us chumps will be back on here dreaming about the promise land of 6th place, haha.

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I only go off what I see when watching Chelsea and reading news and when I talk to fans who go to games in England. The amount of money he puts into the club and the with how hands on he is. The proof is in the pudding. You wanna keep being delusional well that's on you.

Also Jets kool-aid? Im pretty sure theve been putting that in drinks at the stadium for years.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Firstly, you are absolutely on crack if you think Roman bought Chelsea because he wants the city to have a wonderful football club. He is a powerful Russian businessman who spend his money keeping his mate Putin in power. He was one of the biggest Russian names to come out and start showing Russians as 'modern business men' but he is just a face of an ogliarchy doing very well for itself. He bought your club as a strategic move to bring himself notoriety and status. Which is the same as Usmanov wants to do at Arsenal. Kroenke only owns us because we are a piece in his portfolio. Same as the Glaziers, Fenway Sports, Shiek Mansour and most of the other club owners. It builds their status in their own country and increases their bargaining power.

That doesn't mean they don't want that business to succeed, of course they do. As does Mr Lee. I'm just saying that at this stage we are succeeding so why would he want to throw millions at us? Which is what is going to cost long-term to fix every problem that we have.

I'm with the member when he says we need to take it slowly and fix this club from the top to the bottom, or bottom to top, or East to West or whatever order it happens in. Paying Jones out just starts a new problem that will hit us again in 12 months. If Lee sorts out the backroom a bit better, and probably cleans out the top end of the squad then a new manager right now makes sense. But just changing manager by itself won't fix the problem long-term.

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We have the exact same problem we had when we got rid of GVE

We have the exact same problem when we got rid of Stubbins

We have the exact same problem when we got rid of Miller

Yet you want to add Jones to this list??

Why so we have the same problem April 2018??
And then April 2019
Etc

See the worst thing we could do is get a Mulvey or a Merrick in until we actually have the patience to fail

Can you imagine the pressure they would be under here to deliver results??

Get the structure right and build slowly and stop this never ending cycle of Instant Gratification and failure

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Originally Posted by MFKS

We have the exact same problem we had when we got rid of GVE

We have the exact same problem when we got rid of Stubbins

We have the exact same problem when we got rid of Miller

Yet you want to add Jones to this list??

Why so we have the same problem April 2018??
And then April 2019
Etc

See the worst thing we could do is get a Mulvey or a Merrick in until we actually have the patience to fail

Can you imagine the pressure they would be under here to deliver results??

Get the structure right and build slowly and stop this never ending cycle of Instant Gratification and failure

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We all see your point and I agree Member but you also need a good coach to help steer the ship and build the squad. Jones is not this.

A good start on the road to redemption would be to say "yes, I f***ed up", take some accountability and "move forward".

That is what is pissing me off.

McKinna told The Herald "Mark's position has never been under the microscope".

How the hell has an ENTIRE YEAR gone on and apparently ^ not once has the head coach not been under the microscope. How in the hell aren't there daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly kpi's/reviews/etc?

And what about how Mark was sent off and had to sit on the sideline? In what world do upper management at least not peek into the microscope when a coach gets suspended!

I have even less faith in McKinna on this one.

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

A good start on the road to redemption would be to say "yes, I f***ed up", take some accountability and "move forward".

That is what is pissing me off.

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Now would not be the time for it.

Once Saturday is done

The club has officially announced the blokes who are gone early next week etc

Then it time for a bit of honesty and self appraisal from the club to the fans


This is actually a positive here that they ain't doing this publically as they would have done in the past

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

We all see your point and I agree Member but you also need a good coach to help steer the ship and build the squad. Jones is not this.

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No you need to start building a competent functioning club by not looking for some instant fix.

Jones is in a position to know what the issues are.
Let him address them

Get someone else in and it another 12 months of rebuilding and then failing and sacking again

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Get someone else in and it another 12 months of rebuilding and then failing and sacking again

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No, get some better players and a better coach and 12 months isnt needed

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Originally Posted by hawk

No, get some better players and a better coach and 12 months isnt needed

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There it is..

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No you need to start building a competent functioning club by not looking for some instant fix.

Jones is in a position to know what the issues are.
Let him address them

Get someone else in and it another 12 months of rebuilding and then failing and sacking again

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And if Jones is sacked similar to Miller was before the season starts where ****ed again. Lets face it if Jones had shown he warrants keeping around then we'd all be in agreement, The fact that you seem to be the only Jets fan calling for Jones to stay says alot.

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

And if Jones is sacked similar to Miller was before the season starts where ****ed again. Lets face it if Jones had shown he warrants keeping around then we'd all be in agreement, The fact that you seem to be the only Jets fan calling for Jones to stay says alot.

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It actually just shows you lot are deluded and impatient

A 9 game winless run and a few hidings as the squad has imploded ain't insurmountable to return from

FFS we were playing some good shit in December January

I am one who just hasn't lost sight of that.

Jones is the man to take us forward

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Originally Posted by MFKS

It actually just shows you lot are deluded and impatient

A 9 game winless run and a few hidings as the squad has imploded ain't insurmountable to return from

FFS we were playing some good shit in December January

I am one who just hasn't lost sight of that.

Jones is the man to take us forward

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That good shit was all through Nabbout and Hoole with a sprinkling of Clut. Since then Clut has barely played and Nabbout and Hoole have completely fallen off the wheel and Jones never prepared a plan B (Ive said this before btw). Teams and Coaches win and lose together and both have been a disgrace for at least 2 months. Get an experienced coach with some actual man management skills with the full backing of the salary cap + marquess etc as Mckinna has said will happen. Add some KPIs and whatnot so the next coach doesnt get a free ride for a season which apparently Jones has had. And for the love of god tell the players to shut their mouth and stop promising fans stuff like playing for the fans and doing better blah blah blah until we make the finals again. Hell id be happy with a players media ban until this happens. Also you keep using the excuse not his players/squad that the CEO and im guessing the Owner Mr Lee? said the coach wouldnt be able to use.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

No you need to start building a competent functioning club by not looking for some instant fix.

Jones is in a position to know what the issues are.
Let him address them

Get someone else in and it another 12 months of rebuilding and then failing and sacking again

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And its only more rebuilding if the Coach isnt allowed full control of signing players and doesnt have the full cap to work with

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Jones is the man to take us forward

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Anyone from this point can take us forward because we can't go any further backward.

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

That good shit was all through Nabbout and Hoole with a sprinkling of Clut. Since then Clut has barely played and Nabbout and Hoole have completely fallen off the wheel and Jones never prepared a plan B (Ive said this before btw). Teams and Coaches win and lose together and both have been a disgrace for at least 2 months. Get an experienced coach with some actual man management skills with the full backing of the salary cap + marquess etc as Mckinna has said will happen. Add some KPIs and whatnot so the next coach doesnt get a free ride for a season which apparently Jones has had. And for the love of god tell the players to shut their mouth and stop promising fans stuff like playing for the fans and doing better blah blah blah until we make the finals again. Hell id be happy with a players media ban until this happens. Also you keep using the excuse not his players/squad that the CEO and im guessing the Owner Mr Lee? said the coach wouldnt be able to use.

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Plan B??


With what??

Nabbout and Raheem are the best option that the previous manager left him with.

So anything less than relying on them is not playing to our strengths.

Secondly that he previous manager left our attacking output stocks so low that we are relying on two blokes who were not good enough at former clubs to all of a sudden become the finished article says a lot about his ability.

What is also more telling is that we don't even have options in the squad to replace them if they are injured suspended etc
FfS Hoffman is our next best option

As for the end of your post you may need to comeback into reality and out of the Console Game management view on things.

KPIs Marquees Full backing of the cap

Let's just come back to reality and get out of fantasy land where it all so easy in theory

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

That good shit was all through Nabbout and Hoole with a sprinkling of Clut. Since then Clut has barely played and Nabbout and Hoole have completely fallen off the wheel and Jones never prepared a plan B (Ive said this before btw). Teams and Coaches win and lose together and both have been a disgrace for at least 2 months. Get an experienced coach with some actual man management skills with the full backing of the salary cap + marquess etc as Mckinna has said will happen. Add some KPIs and whatnot so the next coach doesnt get a free ride for a season which apparently Jones has had. And for the love of god tell the players to shut their mouth and stop promising fans stuff like playing for the fans and doing better blah blah blah until we make the finals again. Hell id be happy with a players media ban until this happens. Also you keep using the excuse not his players/squad that the CEO and im guessing the Owner Mr Lee? said the coach wouldnt be able to use.

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You've just recycled what other people have put forward here Stanny. You still haven't taken that holiday yet have you? You need to chill and get some perspective on life. You honestly sound like the kid at the start of a Halo team deathmatch screaming into his mic "I"M GOING TO GET A WARTHOG... I'M GOING TO GET A WARTHOG" and then crying when someone else jumped into it first... And i loved that kid for his enthusiasm.


The member would argue with his own shadow if he could catch it. :trolls: is appropriate with that man/myth so don't go feeding him anymore fuel, it just makes him stronger.

Jones isn't the guy to take the club much further forward than it is now, not a chance. But sacking him now will only make the club weaker as we will have to spend more money/resources replacing him and won't fix the problems that are hanging over the club in the bigger picture. The entire club needs to be improved and spending $400k or so to pay out Jones and then spending 3 months finding a replacement and then spending next year rebuilding doesn't help us fix those larger problem. It just moves the same argument back 12 months and keeps us on here sqwabbling over how crap we are instead the important matters like Full strength beer, Jets Shaped Hats and SD's new pool.

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

Anyone from this point can take us forward because we can't go any further backward.

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Yes you are right

We will be moving forward under Jones next season .

Because the worst is behind us and it onwards and upwards now

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Yes you are right

We will be moving forward under Jones next season .

Because the worst is behind us and it onwards and upwards now

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Not this again. LOL.

It does not surprise me what has transpired with Jones and the squad we have. We have yet again fallen in that 7-10 spot which by looking at our playing roster is pretty understandable. It would be interesting to see what people would genuinely mark Jones (pardon the pun) out of 10 given the FULL SQUAD he has at his disposal compared to every other teams. As a whole I would probably say around a 4/10 for me. Would have been nicer to finish higher then CCM, Wello, Adelaide etc but would it honestly matter? If we had finished 7th would everyone say he did an OK job? We had some good runs throughout the season but ultimately finished where we deserved. I can't say though that finishing up to and including 7th was a much better result.
So it now comes down to two options.
Does the club pay Jones out, bring in someone proven ($$) to try and attract decent quality players?
Does the club stick with Jones, open the cheque book and have faith that he will attract the kind of players we need?
My gut feel is he is in over his head. A decent assistant coach but a little too rough around the edge for the main role. However I'm just not quite ready to knife the bloke until I see what he can do with a decent list of quality players.

We went the cheap option with stubbins who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach and that back fired.
We went the cheap option with miller who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach. He showed promise and looked capable of improving but then he was gone.
We went the cheap option with jones who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach and that has back fired also.
If we keep going for the unproven rookie head coach then we are relying heavily on luck to get results across a WHOLE season.
Use the off season to find an experienced proven coach and actually pay them a wage that reflects their ability.
7 seasons without finals means the rookie coach option should be dead and buried. A decent coach given some resources will get some consistent results in the a league.
Mark Jones looks like a concreter and talks football like a concreter. He was a risky choice and has proven to be a poor choice. No point waiting any longer to get rid of him !

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Originally Posted by Wilso8948

It does not surprise me what has transpired with Jones and the squad we have. We have yet again fallen in that 7-10 spot which by looking at our playing roster is pretty understandable. It would be interesting to see what people would genuinely mark Jones (pardon the pun) out of 10 given the FULL SQUAD he has at his disposal compared to every other teams. As a whole I would probably say around a 4/10 for me. Would have been nicer to finish higher then CCM, Wello, Adelaide etc but would it honestly matter? If we had finished 7th would everyone say he did an OK job? We had some good runs throughout the season but ultimately finished where we deserved. I can't say though that finishing up to and including 7th was a much better result.
So it now comes down to two options.
Does the club pay Jones out, bring in someone proven ($$) to try and attract decent quality players?
Does the club stick with Jones, open the cheque book and have faith that he will attract the kind of players we need?
My gut feel is he is in over his head. A decent assistant coach but a little too rough around the edge for the main role. However I'm just not quite ready to knife the bloke until I see what he can do with a decent list of quality players.

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The fact we don't have any contracted players seeking releases from their contracts shows just how uninspiring the current squad is. They only care about pulling a wage - actually winning a competition means nothing to them.

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Originally Posted by R Ramjet

We went the cheap option with stubbins who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach and that back fired.
We went the cheap option with miller who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach. He showed promise and looked capable of improving but then he was gone.
We went the cheap option with jones who was looking for an opportunity to prove himself as a head coach and that has back fired also.
If we keep going for the unproven rookie head coach then we are relying heavily on luck to get results across a WHOLE season.
Use the off season to find an experienced proven coach and actually pay them a wage that reflects their ability.
7 seasons without finals means the rookie coach option should be dead and buried. A decent coach given some resources will get some consistent results in the a league.
Mark Jones looks like a concreter and talks football like a concreter. He was a risky choice and has proven to be a poor choice. No point waiting any longer to get rid of him !

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By that logic John Aloisi wouldn't have a job nor would many other capable managers. This clubs big problem is too many sub-par players on too much money. Jones is not solely responsible for that.
As someone else mentioned - If Jones is already on the nose why not keep him there while the club cleans out the dead wood from the roster and bring in the super coach / manager when the clubs ready to actually start building a side.
Because at the moment we still have ten or so players we cannot get rid of that are not good enough to be part of a successful team - perhaps even more. This means we'd be trying to make the finals next season with at the most 15 players even if we managed to buy the best players we could possibly obtain. An injury or two and it would be season over.

We need 20 plus genuine players. Currently we don't have five worth keeping.

You mean John Aloisi who did get the sack from MC because his results were extraordinarily shit and then spent two years as a coach before getting another gig?


And there aren't 20 genuine players to go around in the A-League. The standard is shit and there aren't enough good Australian players go go around. Make do with the shit we have because that's as good as it gets.

Jones is ****ed.

Our rich owner should be looking at a decent coach as it directly affects the team's performance and it is something that is outside the salary cap - potentially giving us an advantage

Get the feeling well find out his fate the Wednesday or Thursday after the Sydney game

I was kinda hoping it would be all done and dusted by 7:30pm Saturday 15/4/17...

Stubbins and Jones are twins. Both love wooden spoons

I'm all for stability and keeping a coach, but is Mark Jones really the man to rebuild our squad? In January he brought in Johnny K and a couple of other young unknowns, none who've set the world alight. Does Jones have any contacts outside of Adelaide to bring in new talent? If he does keep his job for next season, I'm not convinced he can bring any real quality into the squad. With Zane as his offsider, I see another rookie coach with little pull when it comes to finding or signing talented players. Without really knowing Jones and Zane and their contacts/links to talent in Australia and overseas, I'm not convinced they're the pair to sort the rabble that is the Jets

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Originally Posted by BP Super Dynamos

I'm all for stability and keeping a coach, but is Mark Jones really the man to rebuild our squad?

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That's the million $ Q. Since we have a chance to find another lets at least have a look

It all comes down to how many millions Mr Lee is willing to invest. If he intends to get one or two O'Caravan kind of players then we may as well keep Jones.

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

Get the feeling well find out his fate the Wednesday or Thursday after the Sydney game

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Can you wait that long?

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

Can you wait that long?

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Gonna have too, Club will do whatever they want reguardless of how fans feel

My biggest concern is that the club finally has a chance to appoint an experienced coach to lead the team and they will have the ability to recruit a fair amount of players = no more not my squad bullshit!

Say the club keeps the faith with Jones and it goes from bad to worse next year after he has signed all his players to multi year deals then what?, if they sack Jones its the typical jets routine of not my players, I need an off season, our cap was hindered by the previous players / contracts the manager signed.

The club finally has the chance to gut a fair amount of squad spaces, get an experienced coach in & allow them to control their destiny, no bullshit excuses.

The minimum bench mark if that were to happen would be to finish 5th in the new coach / squads first year with sound salary cap spending and budgeting to spend again in the following off season to build a top 3 squad. The club would have to come right out and state that as an aim for the coach, place some accountability and expectation other than just this pathetic win enough games to be above the bottom 40% of the league.

Patience will be the key, but I can't see any of that happening whilst Jones is here, cut him then cut all the un-contracted players, begin the process of trying to move as many contracted players on now, hell send them to Lee's other 3rd tier Chinese team, its probably the suitable standard for this current jets bunch, recruit a proven experienced coach and go from there.

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Originally Posted by Pico

My biggest concern is that the club finally has a chance to appoint an experienced coach to lead the team and they will have the ability to recruit a fair amount of players = no more not my squad bullshit!

Say the club keeps the faith with Jones and it goes from bad to worse next year after he has signed all his players to multi year deals then what?, if they sack Jones its the typical jets routine of not my players, I need an off season, our cap was hindered by the previous players / contracts the manager signed.

The club finally has the chance to gut a fair amount of squad spaces, get an experienced coach in & allow them to control their destiny, no bullshit excuses.

The minimum bench mark if that were to happen would be to finish 5th in the new coach / squads first year with sound salary cap spending and budgeting to spend again in the following off season to build a top 3 squad. The club would have to come right out and state that as an aim for the coach, place some accountability and expectation other than just this pathetic win enough games to be above the bottom 40% of the league.

Patience will be the key, but I can't see any of that happening whilst Jones is here, cut him then cut all the un-contracted players, begin the process of trying to move as many contracted players on now, hell send them to Lee's other 3rd tier Chinese team, its probably the suitable standard for this current jets bunch, recruit a proven experienced coach and go from there.

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Out of curiosity you hammering on about patience then setting a goal and talking about KPIs and accountability

Sort of hypocritical that

It either patience or accountability for the Jets

Cant really have both

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Out of curiosity you hammering on about patience then setting a goal and talking about KPIs and accountability

Sort of hypocritical that

It either patience or accountability for the Jets

Cant really have both

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You can have both.

It's a matter of finding the balance between the both.

Set realistic KPIs. Give whoever is to meet these KPIs time to meet them. If and when they don't, hold them accountable.

Jones would have, or should have, been given the minimum target of making the 6. He was given the time to stamp his impression on the side and get them into the 6. For a while he was meeting his target and all was looking fine. Now he is unceremoniously taking the team to the spoon and should be held accountable.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Out of curiosity you hammering on about patience then setting a goal and talking about KPIs and accountability

Sort of hypocritical that

It either patience or accountability for the Jets

Cant really have both

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Trumpkins are perhaps the most hypocritical creatures in existence (and they don't even realize it!)