It was the writers being offered a star wars gig and not wanting to lose it. HBO offered them 10 seasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
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It was the writers being offered a star wars gig and not wanting to lose it. HBO offered them 10 seasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
And also the actors wanted too much money. They barely had enough money for CGI this season, hence the lack of scenes with large groups of people like the last few seasons and they had to limit the amount big screen time of the dragons and ghost where possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
The show got too big for itself and had to end.
The were all offered a 10 episode season or a 6 episode season and they all agreed on the 6 episode option. Hence the small amount of haste in wrapping things up.
I think big everyone was given the same amount of time for their story arcs to end as Tyrion and Jon (i.e about 5-10 mins) it would have been fine. But that's in a perfect world. You don't want another LOTR, 3 hour too long ending.
Side note. The LOTR tv series will be out at a similar time to the GOT prequel series. Gonna be a fantasy heaven in a few years time.
GOT will struggle to get fans to commit to another GOT series. Hopefully Lotr is goodQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Bahahahahahahahahahahaha...Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
More people hate it then love it and I've heard HBO are not happy with how it was done. More to comeQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
I bet you they are currently checking their bank balance and saying.. "yeah, we could probably do this again."Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Stop believing loud people online. Most people loved it, everyone is talking about it, it's been a massive success and will be talked about for years to come. Go on Reddit and see the tens of thousands of people talking up how amazing the whole show was. The entire front page was GOT yesterday.
Chill buddy, you'll understand in a few days once things have calmed down.
Nah I've only really seen hate not much love all over social media and all the big GOT YouTube channels. I'm glad some people love it but I can't ignore plot holes which ruin any good story or logical thought processQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
If George Martin wrote it this way and filled the plot holes in the novel, how would you feel?
I'd be able to accept it because it would have proper set up and all make sense. And the characters wouldn't suddenly change their behaviour for some storyline to work. (No I'm not talking about Danny)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
didnt last weekends election teach us this very same damn thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
over time, the series will get revisited and seen as a whole package that people can binge and id bet they'd be way cooler with the ending.
the last few years had so much hype, so big a gap between series and even the week gap between episodes is not the way people consume their shows as much anymore. so many people had so much time to kill between episodes, and they spent it analysing, talking and theorising. If you give yourself 10 mins between eps for this last series and dont think too hard, it will flow a lot better.
George has no pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
No because the plot holes still exist. You can't under those even without analysingQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
I can side with those that feel this was rushed and like more attention to details would have made it better.
The people that don’t like the significant events, the grand plan, the eventual ruler, that’s a problem with Martin, not so much the directors/writer.
Like somebody else said.
They all decided that they’d do 6 episodes. They needed to get person a b c d e f and g to x y z, and make sure that in between h j l and y all happened.
I can’t imagine Martin had zero to do with it. So storyline wise, I think you have to accept it.
Production wise, yes, things could’ve been better. I’d rather sacrifice 20-30 minutes from murder in the dark and saved 15 minutes of Drogon mowing the grass, to use that time to develop some of the stories some more.
I’d love to watch the battle again in full HD or 4K if it can be done and see if it’s any better without having to squint and try to make out wtf is happening. At the start, it builds suspense and makes you appreciate what it would’ve been like in the moonlight, but after that, cmon....
Can confirm "the long night" looked good in 4k. I loved the darkness, it was as if the night king brought the darkness with him in the storm and blackened out any hope/light.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
I was pissed when people complained about one of the best parts of the episode.
Stanny, do a quick list of the main plot holes your are worried about and I'll try to tidy some up for you. Some of them will be opinions and I'll leave those alone as all art is subjective. But I might be able to help with a few others.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
i rewatched Breaking Bad (which i loved at the time but felt very 'underwhelmed' by the finale when it was on live).Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
but 2nd time around via bingemode it was way cleaner and more enjoyable.
guess we'll find out when the GOT boxset/marathons start.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
yeah this here is where its at.
Danny forgetting about Eurons fleet when she is told about them 1000 times and even earlier in that episode.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
All the dothraki and unsullied dying at the long night. (We saw it) The beyond idiotic war tactics during said long night.
Cersei who is a muderous lunatic not killing everyone in episode 4 when their standing infront of kings landing within range of her giant bolts.
Tyrion and Jon snow magically learning dothraki and unsullied during Cerseis speech in the finals. Several characters suddenly reverting or being irrelevant to push plot. She's not my queen blah blah blah
Danny's Dragons being useless against the dead and a small fleet of ships and then next episode 1 dragon is uber powerful against a whole castle and way more bolts.
I'm sure I'd find more problems if I wanted
Dany thought her dragons couldn't be stopped by the fleet, which was true for Drogon when he decimated the fleet outside Kings landing. Rhaeger obviously wasn't as quick as Drogon, same with Viserion up north.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
They only ran into the night after Melisandre gave them swords of fire. Remember, the Dothraki aren't exactly strategists. They won wars by sheer force and weren't easy to control, even for Danys. There was a lot of unsullied, but I do think they exaggerated how many died at Kings Landing. But that's TV land for you.
If Cersie kills Dany at the gates during parlay she would lose a lot of backers and would still have to deal with the Unsullied army, the Dothraki, plus other houses would join the Men of the North and defeat her anyway. If she beats Danys in battle, all houses would have to bend the knee to her. Cersei is evil, but not stupid.
Jon and Tyrion spent time with the Dothraki / Unsullied, it's not ridiculous to imagine that they could learn their language. But that's not really a big plot hole, how many movies do the German soldiers speak English and what-not? You've got to allow characters to understand each other.
The dragons struggling in the snow isn't that hard to believe. The night king was born of dragon glass and could only be killed with dragon glass or Valerian steel, I'm pretty sure that was explained in the show (it may have been in the book only) Don't forget, Danys can't be hurt by fire either. So thats not hard to believe. The not beating the ship's one day and beating them the next is classic tv trope. All it needed was a training montage.
Remember, it's a tv show. Some things are allowed to be skipped over to make it easier to tell the story.
Honestly, when the prequel/sequel/spinoff gets made I dare you not to watch it. We will all watch it. Starve a man for a few years and a raw potato would be the best food he's ever eaten when handed to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
I don't think she forgot about the fleet, I just don't think the fleet was expected to be there and be so armed. I'm pretty sure no one knew about the giant crossbows, and the show stated they are only useful for a surprise attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Jon and Dany are at least consistent in poor war tactics throughout the many seasons of this show, it was no surprise the Battle of Winterfell had severely stupid moments too.
Cersei made it very clear in this season that she believed KL has never been seiged and she genuinely didn't believe it would be. She had no reason, according to her views, to attack.
I don't think it made out as if Tyrion & Jon actually understood what Dany was saying. Tyrion even said to Jon "did that sound like someone who was done liberating" or whatever the exact line was - it vibed to me they picked up the tone as well as the names of the cities she mentioned and they understood what she was getting at.
Dany's dragons weren't useless against the dead, they were useless against the Night King (which is relatively fair) and they were surprised by Euron an episode before. The next episode she used the angle of the sun as well as being ready to manoeuvre on Drogon to wipe out the giant crossbows. Again, like earlier, the giant crossbows were only ever good for a surprise attack as they are slow to reload and move.
man, this military tactics thing is a bit lame.
its the olden days, and the soldiers were either a bunch of savages or a bunch of dickless dudes who had a shield and spear each.
thats what they did back in the day, they just charged in and had a lash. it was worth it alone just for the visual of all those torches going out. that looked dope.
and Queen of Queens Cersei knows that there are still some rules of engagement. there was only like 50 dickless blokes there, if she wiped them out when they went for a chat she knew there were a bunch more coming. chopping off Hot Ramseys head was just a negotiating tactic.......which kind of didnt work.
again, its the olden days, same way people played long ball football back in the day until Griff invented the 4-3-3.
The writers have made it Canon that she forgot about the fleet. That's how it surprised them. They confirmed this in the post episode videos
I don't agree with any of that and nothing in the show really backups these pointsQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Nah I'm not buying that. That's the biggest thing that annoyed me was that whole battle was stupid as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
You have a scene showing all the guys making defense plans. I can't remember exactly who was and wasn't there but roughly Tyrion, Jamie, Varys, Jon, Onion knight. People experienced in battle tactics.
Tyrion a few seasons earlier pretty much successfully devised a battle plan defending King's Landing against Stannis' fleet against the odds. All these guys are pretty cluey.
I can maybe buy the Dothraki. Maybe they just are that dumb and uncontrollable that they would charge in headfirst.
But having siege weapons (trebuchets etc) on the front line of your army? Yeah ok.
Having a big ass castle (you know, those things that people had been building for centuries cause they're really really good at being able to be defended) right behind you, and your enemy is coming to attack you, and deciding that you should come outside to be sporting?
When they did fall back into the castle, not having any means to repel the undead scaling the walls?
The dragons going and looking for night king dude instead of just laying waste to the undead hordes even a little? Spending 5 minutes "mowing the grass" as someone put earlier would have been pretty worthwhile you'd think.
Anyway. Largely agree with the sentiment that it was never gonna live up to people's expectations and will be looked back upon more favourably.
I've never watched a single episode of GOT. What's it about ?
decorative furniture.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
things of that nature.
lets not let the Old Knight King off the hook here either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
his mob attacked from the front, when he knew old Stoner Bran was out the back under the tree with like 6 blokes guarding him (most of who didnt have dicks). Why didnt he just lob in over the back fence while the stink was going on out front? he had a dragon he could have just flown past all of it.
also, as for sitting in the castle and waiting it out, there a was a bunch of dead dudes about to lay seige to the castle. All the humans inside would have eventually died of hunger etc yeah? again, what good were the dickless blokes with one spear on the inside of the castle? they had like one throw over the wall and then would have been like "yo im out of ammo guess ill just chill". They needed to take the fight to the dead dudes. just like when Chief Harragon used to take the big hitups into Spud Carroll.
also also also, what if the Night King was going after Bran because he knew that Bran was gonna be king of kings? Remember how in the Battle of the Bastards, Doctor Strange told Tony Stark (obvs Brans cousin) that there was only one way in 14million they would win?
it all makes perfect sense now doesnt it.
Not letting him off the hook at all, but I gotta stop ranting somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
All shitty old night king had to do was go hide in a corner and not get got and his horde would have wiped that army and prob humanity. Instead he wanted to be the (anti?)hero.
Not sure about the undead laying siege. I reckon they were running at that castle whether the people are inside or outside it.
The pointy spear dudes can line the rampart and not let all the zombies just walk over the walls and into the castle.
I dunno what melee warriors generally do in castle defense, I missed that part of ancient warfare class. But I assume they managed to be useful for something.
If they wanted to take the fight to them, I would have liked to see them come up with something better than "lets all stand outside in formation, then run at them 1/4 at a time and see how the first guys go". I want to feel like their battle plans had more forethought than just making sure they remembered to take their weapons with them.
yeah as someone said earlier those Horsey riding blokes didnt look like the smartest of chaps. and from memory they seemed to make out like just riding up and slashing dudes has served them well in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
Also, only Emo boy and a couple other weirdos had really seen the undead in action. He probably tried to tell them how savage they were but lets face it every time Emo boy starts up on one of his rants i fall asleep (dear God that bloke is so miserable). the Horsey guys were all like "nah we good, we'll just do our chargey slashy approach like always".
i dont think this is without merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Breaking Bad launched into Better Call Saul, which is a fantastic show. But it got nowhere near the hype of ratings.
Id say Breaking Bad (in its day) was similar 'must see TV' (yes, not quite the same ratings but it was the 'thing' at the time).
I never watched Friends but didnt they try and spin that off too and failed.
Top Gear is another one.
It will be the same for Marvel Movies. These last 20 odd were a trip. The new Spiderman will do well, as it has established characters. After that, I'd be shocked if any 'new' Marvel movies begin to go close to what the original lot did.
Heck, the biggest and best franchise there ever was*, Star Wars, even deliberately scaled back from releasing a movie every year due to the response of the Solo movie. Things can change real quick, and even though you might get a massive amount of viewers, if its some sort of significant % lower than previous, people are gonna look on it as a failure.
thats just human nature.
*according to Star Wars nerdy nerdz.
If you’re not watching Chernobyl, you’re missing out. It’s outstanding.
Second the recommendation for Chernobyl.
Very good show.
If it is great, people will follow. Like The Dark Knight trilogy.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Frasier is probably the most sucessful TV spin off I can think of.
Most of them fail and the ones that don't rarely better the show they spawned from.
Plague mentioned Friends earlier which was absolute trash. The spinoff Joey took trash to another level.
Yeah but this example is closer to people blindly following from Nolans trilogy to the Zac Snyder movies.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
You can't say they were met with the same enthusiasm can you?
Of course 'If' its good then people will watch. But thats a pretty big IF right now.
Did you ever see the pre-Friends Matt Le Blanc in the Married With Children Spinoff "Top of the Heap"? For some reason they piloted the spinoff as a MWC episode - apart from when they dropped into Al's shoe store, it was Matt Le Blanc and his dad by themselves - and it was mega trash.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Barry is the best show on TV at the moment.
I wont have anyone telling me other than good things about this show.
it gets dark, real dark, but always finds the space for a subtle gag. its an amazingly well made show.
Bill Hader and Sarah Goldberg are ****ing amazing.
As for the Fonz, oh geez, utterly brilliant.
If you havent watched it, sort yourself out. quickly.
I just watched this and implore everyone to smash thru it. It is truly amazing.Quote:
Originally Posted by baldrick
Season 2 of Happy! is fantastically ****ed up.