2021 Premier Club SAP

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

I do not agree to the 5s pre season thing there trying to do.

why would you grade teams with less players on smaller field not like anything they would play on the weekend? makes no sense to me

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NNSWs plan is not to use it as grading , its all about revenue for themselves .
they are just telling people that ..

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

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Originally Posted by cobra23

NNSWs plan is not to use it as grading , its all about revenue for themselves .
they are just telling people that ..

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

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Yep thought that was the actual reason, but i went with what there calling it.

For the 9s surely they can't grade it off that?

Isn't it also the associations request to divide your teams to A and B side if you have two teams for a age group?

or will there be no issue with mixed quality?

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

Yep thought that was the actual reason, but i went with what there calling it.

For the 9s surely they can't grade it off that?

Isn't it also the associations request to divide your teams to A and B side if you have two teams for a age group?

or will there be no issue with mixed quality?

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I reckon they will use the majority card when it comes down to 9s . if most the other age groups in the club are in one group then they will put them in that to start with..

as far as im aware , MAGIC , OLYMPIC & EDGY have even teams .. im not sure NNSW Football want a A&B Team

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Originally Posted by sapdad

The 12's I saw all looked a bit cramped and there was a lot of direct football which is getting away from the point of the program but thats for another debate.Wouldnt surprise me to see 12's moved to a bigger field in future years

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I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

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I dont agree with this, if the kids havent worked on their 4 core skills enough by age 12 then thats on them.They have to get out onto a full field eventually.There are plenty of age 12 SAP kids already playing 13's NPL this year anyway. If they prove to be good enough then holding back an entire age group for another year is going to be detrimental to their overall development.

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Originally Posted by cobra23

I reckon they will use the majority card when it comes down to 9s . if most the other age groups in the club are in one group then they will put them in that to start with..

as far as im aware , MAGIC , OLYMPIC & EDGY have even teams .. im not sure NNSW Football want a A&B Team

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Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

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i agree with all of this.As you said the kids/coaches and parents know the results, they know who the good teams are, they know who the good players are and they know who the good coaches are.The overall goal of the program was to get to full field and use their skills to win matches.Good coaches will enhance their skills with tactics, fitness and formations.At 13 its time for the kids to get amongst it.To be honest this year so far the drills at training have been so repetitive and boring my kid is not enjoying himself anywhere near as much.He is ready for some more game structure and something new.Wanting these kids to go 5 years of touch pass dribble and shoot without much else is gonna drive them crazy,

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

In relation to the comments about 13s dropping back to a SAP

There’s needs to be a point when we stop trying to protect? (Not sure that’s the right word) kids from the the negatives of “real sokkah”.

I agree, that we need to put more emphasis on learning the basic skills, and it seems that SAP or JDL is doing this.

But there comes a point when you need to start playing to win on a full size field. Part of development is learning when to stray from structure and say know when to kick a ball long, even though everything you have learnt up to that point is about keeping possession.
I know these kids keep score, and know when they win and lose. But part of development is coping with pressure, and results adds that pressure and consequences for poor decisions.

This is in relation to the comments re: 13s dropping from NPL to JDL. I think the JDL is doing what it says it’s doing in terms of core skills and I understand the need for this. I just can’t help but think there needs to be some kind of competition, even if it’s a 2 weekend round robin and finals series type thing at the end of the season. Make it a learning exercise if you will, and have northern coaches/gurus watching the games and explaining tactics or something to the kids/coaches.
If nothing else, it may be interesting to see how the kids/coaches approach the competitive environment in terms of if their structure and composure shines through or if it just turns into maradona runs and long balls. (The latter would definitely serve as an argument to keep scores and tables away from this).

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Couldn't agree more. i think 12s should be playing competition and still part of the JDL that way they are getting the 4 core skills in while also learning the structure and competition of NPL youth.

Also believe they should be on full field or at least 3/4 of the field at minimum.

Any idea of when the draws will be public? or anyone have a draft they are willing to share

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

Also believe they should be on full field or at least 3/4 of the field at minimum.

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Definitely this. 1/2 field too small for whole season. Can there be both? 1st round half field tight touches, 2nd round full field.
Maybe same for 13s.
Are there enough grounds?

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Originally Posted by samcan

Definitely this. 1/2 field too small for whole season. Can there be both? 1st round half field tight touches, 2nd round full field.
Maybe same for 13s.
Are there enough grounds?

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Short answer, no.With the JDL now at capacity for boys (9,10,11 and first year of 12's) and the addition of girls, rejigging a whole field for one age group will be way too much work for NNSW.Also, the kids get to play on 1st grade grounds every week. If they need new grounds the quality of surface wont be the same.If they move JDL 12 to bigger fields it would be easier to incorporate it into the NPL youth structure and play their games first every week.It probably wont happen in the short term though.

The biggest thing is majority of the kids these days compared to when i was a kid are huge and they are getting bigger each time the 9s come through

anyone else notice that :D

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

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My question for NNSWF is how they would grade teams who are NOT splitting their two teams; IE. Clubs that are mixing and matching each week?

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Short answer, no.With the JDL now at capacity for boys (9,10,11 and first year of 12's) and the addition of girls, rejigging a whole field for one age group will be way too much work for NNSW.Also, the kids get to play on 1st grade grounds every week. If they need new grounds the quality of surface wont be the same.If they move JDL 12 to bigger fields it would be easier to incorporate it into the NPL youth structure and play their games first every week.It probably wont happen in the short term though.

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The idea of playing JDL before NPL Youth games got me thinking.
Are there any club identities forming? Making kids feel as though they are part of a organisation?
Eg is there any cross play with NPL youth or even NPL senior setups? Or are JDL very separate to NPL until say 12s.
Maybe not the most important thing for 9 year olds, they already have their Jets or Overseas idols. But maybe somebody involved with the program could comment on their thought on if this is important and if so, are many clubs doing it?

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

The idea of playing JDL before NPL Youth games got me thinking.
Are there any club identities forming? Making kids feel as though they are part of a organisation?
Eg is there any cross play with NPL youth or even NPL senior setups? Or are JDL very separate to NPL until say 12s.
Maybe not the most important thing for 9 year olds, they already have their Jets or Overseas idols. But maybe somebody involved with the program could comment on their thought on if this is important and if so, are many clubs doing it?

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absolutely.most clubs ive seen a lot of have a very close association with seniors.i know of a few NPL teams who have done jersey presentations to the kids by the seniors.SAP demonstrations have been played on 1st grade matchdays.even having coaches involved in SAP who are in the seniors set up come through and talk to the kids and encourage them.its really cool and definitely bonds the kids to the club from an early age.
also it should be noted that every instance ive seen of seniors getting involved in it has always been embraced by the seniors.it never looks as if they are performing some sort of chore.the kids get a real kick out of seeing how the big boys do it, and hopefully it inspires them to want to do the same.

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Originally Posted by Aegon

I wonder if this is possible - especially when you look at Football VIC and Football NSW looking at pushing 13's back to SAP.

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Indeed Football Australia came out saying U13s and U14s should be box to box 9v9. Then go to a full size field 11v11 from U15s

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Originally Posted by cobra23

teams were submitting scores at the end of last season , they will use that as well as the help of clubs

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Must have been only some clubs asked for that. I was heavily involved in my club's SAP program (i.e. running the SAP program) last year and Northern never asked us for scores. Just coaching one of the JDL teams this year but our TD keeps us abreast of what's going on

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

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Pity your club has to do it like that, ideally the two teams are of equal strength. I do remember one year a particular club did that and their designated B team roundly thrashed their A team later in the year.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

absolutely.most clubs ive seen a lot of have a very close association with seniors.i know of a few NPL teams who have done jersey presentations to the kids by the seniors.SAP demonstrations have been played on 1st grade matchdays.even having coaches involved in SAP who are in the seniors set up come through and talk to the kids and encourage them.its really cool and definitely bonds the kids to the club from an early age.
also it should be noted that every instance ive seen of seniors getting involved in it has always been embraced by the seniors.it never looks as if they are performing some sort of chore.the kids get a real kick out of seeing how the big boys do it, and hopefully it inspires them to want to do the same.

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Excellent! Good to see.
Some of the best moments and memories I have are playing for a club where you felt part of it all.
Also spent some time at a club that did not do this, and it always felt like you were unwanted but necessary.
I’m glad some clubs are seeing the big picture!

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Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung

Excellent! Good to see.
Some of the best moments and memories I have are playing for a club where you felt part of it all.
Also spent some time at a club that did not do this, and it always felt like you were unwanted but necessary.
I’m glad some clubs are seeing the big picture!

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The highlight of my sons season last year was being a ball boy for the 3 senior grades.
Although he did receive quite the education on the type of language used on the field :yap::yap:

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

Wow thats surprising to hear, as my clubs directive was to split to A and B sides for all JDL age groups (12s exempt due to 1 team)

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Hi guys.

Great conversation. Keep it up!

We are are one of many clubs I know who have been asked to have A and B teams. This is to aid the grading process Northern are planning. I am starting to think this has only been requested of the hate to say “smaller” clubs.

We were also asked to provide scores at the end of last season, but our players have changed so much since then this cannot be a good indicator.

If I am honest even our A team would not be as strong as many “big” B teams I would think, so much as I want a challenge for our guys the A pool might to a tough gig.

A

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Originally Posted by Alan

Hi guys.

Great conversation. Keep it up!

We are are one of many clubs I know who have been asked to have A and B teams. This is to aid the grading process Northern are planning. I am starting to think this has only been requested of the hate to say “smaller” clubs.

We were also asked to provide scores at the end of last season, but our players have changed so much since then this cannot be a good indicator.

If I am honest even our A team would not be as strong as many “big” B teams I would think, so much as I want a challenge for our guys the A pool might to a tough gig.

A

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This is where it gets difficult when trying properly grade teams. I can imagine once comps are set you stay till the end.

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Originally Posted by samcan

This is where it gets difficult when trying properly grade teams. I can imagine once comps are set you stay till the end.

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Agreed.

I don't have the answers to how to solve for grading either.

I'm not privvy to whether we were asked to or not - but we have graded the 9s and 10s into A and B. This is for player development, not result driven.
We collected and passed back to the SAP coordinator scores last year - so I can only assume they were passed on up the chain to Northern.

If there were enough games you'd just have each team play each other and take the top and bottom halves - but as we all know games and game time is reducing not increasing.
If clubs were going to field the same two teams consistently week-in, week-out you'd just ask them to nominate which half of the draw they think their teams would fit in. But personally I saw last year and have been told this year that clubs will be choosing different teams each round. Impossible to grade "teams" if the teams change that frequently.

My understanding is that the grading period will be the 3 weekends prior to Easter weekend; there will be no football Easter weekend, and competition games will start the following weekend (as Round 4?).
Now, that has the season "proper" starting April 10... 3 weeks after I would have assumed it would start.
And I assume the mid-season (after 8 rounds) re-shuffle of the draws will still happen?

The wet weather has severely hampered our preparation (one trial v Valentine indoors at howzat) - Johnson Park is just about always wet - so I'm half way happy that games are so far away so that we can actually get some time under our belts.

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Originally Posted by scowling

If clubs were going to field the same two teams consistently week-in, week-out you'd just ask them to nominate which half of the draw they think their teams would fit in. But personally I saw last year and have been told this year that clubs will be choosing different teams each round. Impossible to grade "teams" if the teams change frequently

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Now I recall seeing one club do this last year, and that club didn’t do it the two years before by the way, but I don’t feel it’s very common. Therefore the issue of grading this type of ‘team’ becomes that clubs issue not Northern’s. I don’t think Northern can adapt their chosen pathway to accommodate clubs who do things different.

On grading, I’m on record saying this is easy if clubs are honest. I know where our clubs stand in terms of both A and B teams and where they fitted among the other clubs last season. Most clubs would also be honest. Where there may be some debate, Northern should have the final say. They watched all the teams last season after all.

Didn’t they????????

A

Does anyone have any idea if the girls are just being "thrown in" with the boys for grading? I have heard that the 10s girls will because of the lack of teams (not all of the WPL clubs could form teams in the under 10s). Our trial game so far has only been against teams of girls and I have no idea if they are grading them against the boys?

How are you supposed to grade off last season? Some teams have had big changes to their teams from last season. And playing 5 a side wonÂ’t give you a clear indication of what they will be like this season. IÂ’d like to see a mini pre season tournament held at speers point like maybe a gala day on half fields over a weekend. Saturday you do group games then Sunday some semis. Let the kids have a taste of a tournament like they used to back in the day. Stop being so precious about losing, its part of life. You win some you lose some. They get over it in a day or 2.

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Originally Posted by Yaa Yaa

Stop being so precious about losing, its part of life. You win some you lose some. They get over it in a day or 2.

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They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

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Originally Posted by BS detecor

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

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I couldn't agree more, after our first full season of SAP last year of pretty decent losses most games Ive learnt try to speak to the young one about what they enjoyed and what they learnt from it and anything they'd like to work on at home through the week.

Its disappointing hearing the constant "i cant watch this crap anymore" or "how many goals did you lose by this week" to young johnny walking back to the car after the game. no doubt it has an impact on the players

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Originally Posted by BS detecor

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

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Totally agree.Although can we add in certain coaches too?

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Originally Posted by BS detecor

They get over it before they even hop in the car to go home.
I think the losing affects the parents more than the kids, if only they could take the loss better, the kids might get a better experience.

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I say day or 2 mainly because their friends at school play for other clubs and may stir them but nothing wrong with that. No different to them winning or losing swimming and running races at school carnivals. That’s just sport, some take it more seriously than others.

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Originally Posted by sideline88

Its disappointing hearing the constant "i cant watch this crap anymore"

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Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Totally agree.Although can we add in certain coaches too?

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I think at times we can be harsh on coaches, I’ve been guilty of it also but let’s not forget the amount of time they put in and the crap they go through having to get tickets These days to coach and probably get f all pay for it. Then to have to deal with some parents that expect you to turn their kids into stars. It’s not the coaches fault the rego is high and maybe some coaches feel that pressure by parents to perform because of the money they fork out. Anyway just my take on it.

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Originally Posted by Yaa Yaa

I think at times we can be harsh on coaches, I’ve been guilty of it also but let’s not forget the amount of time they put in and the crap they go through having to get tickets These days to coach and probably get f all pay for it. Then to have to deal with some parents that expect you to turn their kids into stars. It’s not the coaches fault the rego is high and maybe some coaches feel that pressure by parents to perform because of the money they fork out. Anyway just my take on it.

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Totally agree,I was just referring to the certain few who take losses as a dagger to the heart and have been known to lash out at refs and opposition in frustration.Them and parents(as we all agree) are the ones who should be setting the example and like parents, 99% of coaches are great.I just get a good belly laugh out of the ones who think losing a 9 year olds SAP game is going to cost them the vacant Man City job if Pep retires.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

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ohh mate, they are out there. that exact line was said only last week at a trial game followed 10minutes from another parent "blow the whistle already this is just embarrassing" unfortunately some parents dont yet understand the big losses are just as important to development as the big wins.

That's crazy to hear, but i do believe it. i for one as a coach and a dad for JDL (SAP) if faced with a big loss pick out key things they did this week and the key things we can work on at home or in training and try to focus the kids on this (can't control the parents)

end of the day we are told there is no results but the kids know so you need to encourage team work and team goals more.

I am all for telling kids when they do something wrong that they know is not upto scratch (usually behavior) outside that i am one very positive coach compared to other coaches i have come across

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Originally Posted by Cunning stunts

That's crazy to hear, but i do believe it. i for one as a coach and a dad for JDL (SAP) if faced with a big loss pick out key things they did this week and the key things we can work on at home or in training and try to focus the kids on this (can't control the parents)

end of the day we are told there is no results but the kids know so you need to encourage team work and team goals more.

I am all for telling kids when they do something wrong that they know is not upto scratch (usually behavior) outside that i am one very positive coach compared to other coaches i have come across

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Then mate you are doing it the right way.Good luck with the team this season.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Totally agree,I was just referring to the certain few who take losses as a dagger to the heart and have been known to lash out at refs and opposition in frustration.Them and parents(as we all agree) are the ones who should be setting the example and like parents, 99% of coaches are great.I just get a good belly laugh out of the ones who think losing a 9 year olds SAP game is going to cost them the vacant Man City job if Pep retires.

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Lets not forget some coaches are more than happy to hand over to a superior coach if possible and dont care about mancity vacancies.

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Originally Posted by Eastwest

Lets not forget some coaches are more than happy to hand over to a superior coach if possible and dont care about mancity vacancies.

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Yes,id put them in the 99% bracket mentioned earlier.

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Originally Posted by sapdad

Are you serious? Do parents carry on like that? Wow.Good luck keeping that kid interested in team sports once they hit the teens.

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Unfortunately they do and even worse they carry on if a loss happens and start going on about their kid not being put in their position. As though a 9yo position is striker or a winger, even heard "but that's where he has always played".

As mentioned before at my club I was more heavily involved in our SAP teams last year and one of our teams struggled in terms of results but they got better each week and were much very competitive by the end of the season (even winning a couple games) but even then these parents in one of our U9 teams have decided to go elsewhere to what they deem as better teams.

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Originally Posted by sideline88

ohh mate, they are out there. that exact line was said only last week at a trial game followed 10minutes from another parent "blow the whistle already this is just embarrassing" unfortunately some parents dont yet understand the big losses are just as important to development as the big wins.

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If one team is running through and easily scoring goals and the other team can't touch the ball it isn't developing anyone. I don't care about the score but neither team gets better from it.