The good news is that Foz's website is still up.
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The good news is that Foz's website is still up.
REMO!!!!!!!!!!
Proper Newy boy.
No doubt will seek the counsel of Griff to unlock the secret to turning bread and fish into a feast for the people.
Football is saved.
Hail Griff, and Hail Remo.
“The game is not ready for a former player chair” - Foster.
Foster is the kid at school who swears he dumped his girlfriend first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
and Lowy STILL having a cry on the way out.
he can **** off and enjoy Daddys money now.
its over.
Happy Remo got on there but I dont think anything is changing any time soonQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
The bloke who has been elected to replace Lowy
Exactly what is his vision for the game??
None
Just Lowys lap dog continuing to run things
If anything this whole farce has shown is how much these State Federations need to be smashed into a million pieces
They are the biggest Cancer in Oz Football behind the PFA
No pi55 take here: Explain your opinion regarding the state federations and PFA.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/canberr...kfast/10494688
interview with heather reid on local ABC. Interview starts at 1:38:30.
also a guardian article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...ity-of-purpose
The PFA are responsible for driving up wages so much so that we can not afford more teams as it requires millionaires to run a club in the HALQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
As a result of these excessive wages we are limited in potential HAL sides as the costs to run a club are so high the demand isnt there
Add in to the equation that this also prevents us getting a second tier etc
This all effects our ability to develop players and youth as it limits opportunity for players in general
As a result the very thing that they are meant to be seeking opportunities for professional footballers are limited as they.actually pursue better conditions for the existing players
So they more or less see the Hoffmans and Boogaards and Fitzgeralds on 6 figures whilst stifling the opportunities for all the 17/18 year olds out there to get into the comp
So the PFA see us with a 3 million + Salary Cap mandated on all clubs when the reality is the money generated in the code isnt there for this figure
If it was 50% of this figure we could have a 20 team top flight overnight and 2nd division and a 3rd divsion in no time what so ever
But hey lets just keep the status quo and over psy players whilst sacrificing the codes potential development and s
uccess
As for the State Federations
You do realise these pricks have had too much power for eons??
Even before Lowy they were a scourge back in the old Soccer Australia days
Before Lowy got the arse they still controlled Oz football with a ridiculous amount of the votes being in their hands
Even with the changes and the introduction of the Fifa enforced chanfe that saw more groups involved they didnt really lose out.They still more or less control things
Dont forget it is these clowns who elected the board yesterday
It is these clowns who have run the game into the ground as they Rubber stamped Lowys shenanigans
It is these clowns who went oyt of their way to stifle any change in the congress
You want to see how short sighted and self interested these clowns are
Many if them yesterday voted against upgrading the status of the Association of Australian Football Clubs (AAFC) along the procees so that sometime in the near future they can join the congress and vote as another interest group
Exactly why they are doing this defies logic but more reflects their desire to not share power or allow growth of the game
#****Em
You guys dont deserve the Aleague. You need the grubbiest mismanaged football the world has ever seen in the NSL.
Then youd run back to the other sports quick as lightning like 98% of Australia did before.
Appreciate your views and I can see where you are coming from.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
If we halved the figure in an effort to get 20 teams as you suggest, can we extrapolate that all players would take a 50% pay cut? If we do, do you think the likes of Petratos, Ugar and any number of better A league players would be here, or would they be off to some other Asian league where they can earn a lot more than here? What would the standard of your 20 team comp be like when every kid that wants more than $25k to play football (live on) packs his bag for India, Malaysia etc? Would supporters go? Would it get tv coverage?
Again, not taking the pi55, just seeking your views.
Of course the players aint gonna take a pay cut of that magnitude voluntarilyQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Thing is we had that type of salary cap in Season 1 of the HAL and for some reason they have managed to double it in 13 years and I would doubt the quality of play crowds interest etc has increased that much
Absolutely scandalous that they have got away with it
As for players leaving here and going elsewhere for better money isnt that ideally what we want??
The more guys that can **** off to Europe and get rich better experienced etc then ultimately.better for the Socceroos and to inspire the kids to be like Mooy Cahill Kewell etc
What we have now is a welfare league where you have plenty of blokes just sucking a pay cheque out of it for 10/15 years aka Boogaard BK Hoffman etc who are plain well not good enough for O/S action
This also has the effect of killing opportunity for younger players as spots for them just aint there like they should be
Then you throw in the fact that our blokes can be well paid in the HAL and it doesnt motivate them to stick it out in Europe and make it
Blokes like Birraz Goodwin Brillante etc can easily come back to HAL and pick up 6 figures when really they should be desperate to make the break through in Europe
The current model is ****ed and has little benefit to anyone except acting as a welfare payment for the status quo in the league
I think the better option would be full disclosure of wages / remuneration like they do in the MLS.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
The reason for this is that full information is necessary for any market to function.
Without prices being known the bargaining processes is inefficient and wages will not be a true reflection on the real value of a player.
It will also weed out the ridiculously high wages some players are on and prop up those not being paid equitably.
Its a difficult position, we want our league to get better. But at the moment its stale...
So many have tried it out in europe but are back within a year or so because they can get a cruisy job in the A league and have the image oh yeah i played in europe and boom theres a few extra $$...
Sometimes the quality of play might not be that much better then in aus in the lower leagues... but the wealth of players/games played and the much higher pressure on results and performance... factor in why more players need to head OS.. this isnt Euro snobbery.. the best players in the world are in Europe period... thats the benchmark.
Hell I look at some of the aussies in the swiss league... play alright for the first 2 months but then the pressure sets weather sucks still have to play and more games played and boom they dissapear...
Quote:
Originally Posted by goaliepersempre
It is stale because the clowns at FFA have no plan on expansion
It is stale because the clowns at FFA have no plan on achieving a second tier
It is stale because the clowns at the FFA have no plan on allowing existing clubs in but would rather invite in created franchises
This is how wank they are getting now that they are looking at conglomerates of areas and trying to create a club like they doing with SE Melbourne and Southern Expansion and will actually over look existing clubs and supporters
This just shows that these clowns dont get it
It's actually stale because the league has been running for 13 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
All the people who watched 13 year (or so) ago, are us, and a few years younger, who are too old and shit to be good enough to play in the HAL.
The kids (4-7) who watched 13 years ago, are just starting to be good enough (would be 17-20?) to get a look in at the HAL level.
When we get a shit load more of these kids coming through, in a couple years, they will get runs in HAL clubs and will push people like Boogs, Hoff etc out, as they're just as good and half or one third the cost.
This is when we'll have enough talent locally to have 15-20 top flight clubs. We don't have enough quality nationally to have 10 teams be competitive, let alone 20.
Disagree that we dont have the talent for 15 to 20 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball Enthusiast
Plemty of blokes are stuck in the NPL and just never get given the opportunity due to the current model
Look at our side for example
Vujica
Jackson
Thurgate
Cowburn.
None of these blokes are certain starters in our side but they are more than capable of being involved at HAL level
You put 20 teams in the League and thet start getting opportunities as starters not fighting for scraps like we have in a 9 team league where each club wastes 5 spots on Foreigners
Disagree also on the kids coming through thing too
If this was accurate we would have 5 bays of 16 year old active hooligans if this was the case
HAL model hasnt worked
It is just as broken as the NSL was with different failings
Na, Yeah. Ur always right hey Member.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Thats why the game is dead in this country and participation numbers are the lowest they've ever been.
Newy Bay 1 is 70% 15-19 year olds and most of the other Aleague active support is the same. Guess you're right there too.
My 2c, 2 years ago many would have put Andrew Nabbout on the same list of players not good enough to cut it as a starter.
If these players get the first team opportunity, that break they need, perhaps they will develop. Cowburn was a key starter a few years ago playing right and left back.
Will they all go to Europe, or will the less skilled ones end up in better paid leagues such as India, Malaysia etc (assuming wages here fall)? If our league doesn't match other leagues of a similar standard (or inferior) when it comes to wages, why would they come back? If you don't make it in Europe, then you don't make it. I think I would prefer the likes of the players you mentioned in our league, helping it draw TV, crowds etc, rather than them heading off to South Africa, USA, China or where ever. If our better players left the league, do you think Fox would continue to pay?Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Are you saying Hoffman BK and Boogaard are helping to draw TV ratings and crowds because that is the best thing I have ever heard ROFLQuote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
As for Foxtel quite frankly I dont give a **** about their interests
PayTV is for all intensive purposes a dead end medium
I would also say that Foxtel have manipulated the game for their benefit the last 13 years and have in a lot of ways done a lot of harm
I wouldnt think that coverage from them is the be all and end all of things
Would a change here even if it meant less $$ be a bad thing if it actually got us the exposure or promotion the code needs ??
As for your concern about blokes going to Leagues like India and Malaysia etc
Isnt that already happening now in recent years??
Didnt we have a pile of Socceroos go play in China when they were throwing the stupid cash about??
What about all the Skips going and getting paid at cashed up Gulf Clubs??
Plenty of people already getting out of Oz for the $$ Why would your suggestion be any different??
High participation rates the code has had for yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Roundball Enthusiast
This is in spite of the poor administration off the field
This is in spite of the over the top costs
This is in spite if the governments failing to provide adequate amounts of playing facilities
Bay 1 was barely half full the last couple of weeks so 200/300 kids is no great wave of popularity that is gonna carry the game into a rosy future
Make it 2000/3000 and your point has some bearing
biggest problem game has had is that the clubs need to learn that long term success means getting your fans to cheer for laundry, not players.
Victory have done it, WSW too (although their stadium issues have stalled that momentum).
The rest seem to have no idea.
Biggest problem is the modelQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
Reading tonight that Dec12 is the date the FFA will decide which of these bids gets to "buy" their way into the HAL
Whilst ever we have Franchises buying their way in with licence fees then the comp is doomed
No pro/rel when these "Clubs" have to vote on it and they just paid 13 million or whatever fee it is to get in
They aint letting clubs in for free on merit not when they had to bribe their way in
Unfortunate but true but the FFA are actually just digging a bigger hole for the game in this country with their decisions
Also how corrupt is the practice of licensing fees??
the flipside to that is the fear of pissing away your licence fee by fielding a shit team. Hence owners may try harder if they have more to lose.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
prob why Aston Martin owners look after their cars better than blokes with a Datsun 120Y yeah?
you want clubs let in on 'merit'?
hahahha, here comes our Lefty mate Member again.
have you got that full back tattoo of Bob Brown finished yet?
and i was under the impression that even though the A-League will be 'run' day to day under its own leadership, the FFA has final say on any sort of promotion/relegation and expansion yeah?
But look on the brightsideQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
This is the same organisation who bitched to high heavens about Fifa and Qatar buying the World Cup in a bidding process
Then they go set up this farce where they get paid a licence fee to decide on who gets into the comp in what would have to be one of the least transparent processes of all time and is ripe for them to show off all that has been learned from Sepp Platini and co throygh the ages
Not exactly a good look for an organisation whom is trying to be more democratic and transparent
So the hypocrisy is out of this world
I wonder how many paper bags will change hands from the winning bidders??
Exactly. Arzani hadn't played Snr football 12 months ago. Dennis Genreau wasn't deemed good enough to get any time at Melb City but plays week in week out in the Eredivisie. There's plenty of talent about just not getting a chanceQuote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
The big thing I agree with the Member on is regarding the PFA. They're a selfish ****ing blight on the game. Blokes like Dimi and Ugarkovic would get paid their market worth as they're good players. I have no issue with the Salary Cap at its current level but I ****ing hate that clubs are forced to have a minimum spend which is bloody close to the cap and the minimum salary being $60k. The PFA have ****ed growth and young players with those two. It's why dead weight like BK and Hoole get paid 6 figure sums at a club that can't get anyone else to go there. Instead of a club loosing cash being able to consolidate, give some kids a chance on bugger all coin and make money selling them. You get mercenary players like Reddy playing at 8 clubs in a 10 team league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Lachy Wales was was getting something like 40 bucks a week at the Gypos last yearQuote:
Originally Posted by The Camel
nah.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Camel
its cheap ass owners hiring bum ass CEO's who sign blokes like that to deals like that.
You blokes think i am kidding with my Middleby talk.
bloke made some absolutely terrible decisions on behalf of the club.
none of them were the PFA's fault.
How would you determine a players value ? Goals ? Assists? Evades ? Memberships ? Marketing potential ?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Camel
I'm not being critical of you here but it's rare to find any sector of the labour market offering pay / salary based on anything other than the workers ability at the bargaining table.
It's not optimal, but it's unfortunately how it works.
This is why I think publishing player salaries like they do in the MLS is a far more effective and efficient approach.
As much as this helps protect the integrity of a salary capped sport, not sure if it will help keep wages under control.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Managers (who are only doing their job) can point to cashed up asian and gulf clubs as a means of leverage.
and there is always a Middleby around to take the bait.
Esp for a young hyped 'talent' like an Arzani, if he hits the open market, everyone wont care what the other young talent are getting paid if they really want him.
The Jets management is solely responsible for us having 2 x six figure keepers on the books back bn in the day.
They should never have let it happen.
Hopefully though the new A-league management open up transfers between clubs in order to help teams and hopefully spread talent as well.
The main reason markets fail is asymmetric information. Publishing wages data lessens this problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
It would also check ridiculous transactions like those Middleby made as others would have enough information to show it was not an optimal decision.
This is precisely why lenders do credit checks and Insurers have access to databases with respect to medical, crime, driving records... and can even cross reference what you paid previously with other insurers or if you sought a loan elsewhere and failed.
Without this information they simply could not charge customers the correct premiums. Football clubs without full information can't pay optimal wages.
It's got nothing to do with the salary cap.
Middleby paid fair market value for both BK and Biraz.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
No amount of published information would have prevented him from signing TWO high priced keepers in a salary capped league.
Because that's what he did.
Again, the theory in the textbooks may be legit, but humans are stupid, you gotta account for that.
Wait, are you inferring that financial institutions are using this information for the benefit of the 'customer'?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
It's empirical Plague not a vague text book model. it's why a lot of businesses gag employees talking about salaries.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
I'm not denying that the rational agent is a textbook myth so yes - given the same information people will act differently.
However, it would provide enough of a check/balance for someone to say to Middleby you are offering too much based on what so and so is being paid.
Correct in their eyes - not the customers.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
We had two first team keepers so ofcourse they were both on 6 figures
But if you have a look at it a lot of the things in the HAL are not first world practiceQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
Salary Cap
Minimum wage spend
No Transfers between clubs
No Promotion No Relegation
Creating of teams through a franchise process etc etc
How about we acknowledge that 1 other country the USA does this crap with their football comp and we start smashing these things to pieces and start joining real world practices and set our football up as per world standards??
It is a farce that we are running most of these communist concepts in our league when the reality is we dont need them