Everything about this Adam Goodes stuff is bad and sad.
Once again it just shows that no one wants to talk about racism, they only want to talk about other people talking about racism.
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Everything about this Adam Goodes stuff is bad and sad.
Once again it just shows that no one wants to talk about racism, they only want to talk about other people talking about racism.
Who cares if they are a good or bad person?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
That's like saying only polite women can reasonably expect not to be raped.
Very good point and I agree. But that's not what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMan
What I meant by a good person is that the disrespect shown towards Goodes has nothing to do with his character or behaviour on or off the field.
The booing in this case is blatantly racist. If Goodes played not within the spirit of the game, disrespected people, or indeed acted like a lot of Rugby League players seem to off field - then I could understand him being booed by crowds.
I can see points made on both sides of the debate yet I don't think any of it is correct.
it's disgraceful. i enjoy a good boo, whether it be matthew breeze, phil stubbins, every knights game, SD, the list goes on - but this is way too far.
the nonsense about he's a dirty player and he "stages for free kicks" doesn't wash. he's had 11 frees on him this year, nowhere near the top of the list, and the booing is worse than ever.
lets have a look - the man got called an ape, and somehow he is racist for drawing attention to it. if it was my kid i'd have clipped them round the ear and marched them down to the fence to apologise to the bloke - but now the girl's a martyr for jones, bolt and devine? jeeeeeezus this country is retarded sometimes.
then a bunch of crybabies in the carlton cheersquad can't handle a dance aimed at them in indigenous round - fmd. grow up you man children. cop it sweet and move on with your lives. people telling him to go back to the zoo...and then saying it's not racist, come on.
australia can't handle the fact that aboriginal people have been treated shockingly for the past 200 years, and now it's in their face thanks to adam goodes, they can't handle it and are looking for any excuse to deny there is a problem.
it's white people telling black people when they are allowed to be offended, and white people blindly ignoring that a great deal of the booing has to do with a shitstorm kicked up over aboriginal issues they refuse to notice exist. not free kicks.
and fer chrissakes - when the notoriously conservative AFL says you're racist, you probably are.
Example ?Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
http://www.pedestrian.tv/news/sport/...810d585bc8.htm
sums it up well.
all goodes has done is stood up for his rights to be treated with dignity and respect and that his culture recieves the same...... sadly that makes some in this country uncomfortable.
anyone who genuineky doesnt understand why aboriginal australia is still hurting take the time to watch Utopia by John Pilger. It's an eyeopener for some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfhXIb0W1IU
I'd say the labelling of 'everyone' who boos are racists.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
I reackon there's a good percentage of people booing just because they are told not to boo.
Childish? yes. Bullying? Yes. Racist? Nah.
On the counter, if Goodes 'didn't call out that girl' then we wouldn't have a problem. Rubbish.
Goodes did exactly what we all in society should do, and that's call them out and shame them (edit: and hopefully educate them). The fact she had a poor mother and the cops/security were fairly heavy handed isn't Goodes' fault. Not at all.
The fact that Rebecca Wilson is on one side and Andrew Bolt/Miranda Divine are on the other means we are all losers.
Also, from memory didn't another Australian of the Year winner go in pretty hard on race back in the day?
Can't be 100% but thought it was someone a couple of years before Goodes. Anyway I doubt they are getting boo'd in their workplace every day.
On another point.
Anthony Mundine has been front and centre of indigenous issues for years and you'd have to say a LOT of people hate his guts but I don't remember anyone booing him being accused of being a racist. That's where this whole grey area exists.
For the record aside from the boxing sideshow persona he puts on to sell tickets I actually like Mundine and what he stands for.
I think it's because Anthony Mundine is not seen as a serious threat to racist Australian's. Adam Goodes though is a different story.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
When Branch Rickey recruited Jackie Robinson for the Dodgers he did so because he was a wonderful athlete and indeed was the type of person many people would aspire to be. There were better baseballers out there [Paige and Gibson] but they were never an option because they could be stereotyped [ though through no fault of their own].
Goodes like Robinson avoids the racist stereotype and for that reason he's a serious threat to the racists.
Mundine [ Who I admire and understand is nothing like the character he portrays for the media] tends to get out of his depth on various issues and can be [ and indeed has been] used to enforce a sterotype that racist Australia are comfortable with.
well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
it is so hard to watch all of the so-called experts in the media come out and give their opinion on the whole thing. a bunch of middle-aged white men who just say things like "the best thing for goodes to do would be to ignore it" like it's something we should accept.
idiots who think it's ok for people to boo just because a lot of people are only doing it because they've been fed a false narrative of goodes being a dirty player or a cheat, or hates white people. they don't want to accept that it all started because of him proudly representing his people by doing that war dance and other people joining in is fueling people who are being racist.
too many australians are ignorant about this issue or just choose not to get involved. we should nuke the place from orbit.
peter fitzsimmons wrote a good article on it this morning. i always thought he was a bit of a kook because of his articles on football but he's done some good work lately.
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/the-fitz...0150730-gin6zm
Although Fitzsimmons once again states the blindingly obvious and reignites his hate for Jones that stretches back decades, I still don't conpletely agree with the notion that 'we' (being 'white people') are upset because an indigenous bloke stood up for himself.
It's been going on for decades and celebrated accordingly from an overwhelming percentage of the population.
No one has copped this level of backlash.
Oh and for the record I'm just spitballing here. The ability for me to enter any sort of real debate on this is pointless as I've never called anyone an 'ape' nor have I ever been called an 'ape'.
For me to even begin to understand how that feels would be disingenuous.
My point has always been that everyone seems to deal with these things differently yet the loudest voices in this seem to want to form a neat line down the middle of the debate with a side that is 'right' and a side that is 'wrong'.
You must hate the Ayn Rand types almost as much as I do plague.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
plus goodesy's a fkn legend
See I find this interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Mundine is every bit the model sportsman (aside from the WWE antics) non drinker, family man, does a LOT of charity work yet we just dismiss him for some unknown reason.
And Craig Foster has weighed in (can a supernerdynerd post link pls).
He made a very good point in that if Goodes had done the war dance playing football, we'd pretty much all think it was awesome and we as a fanbase are the most passionate out of all the sports (#fanmade).
I'd say some people just hate athletes showing any level of individuality and flair outside of the skills of the game.
Go back and look at Jason Akermanis now THAT bloke copped some grief.
just remember what you're actually up against when you try and deal with this issue
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLI75lmUwAA55PA.jpg:large
before the internet these people existed in mostly silent, non-contactable stupidity
Ok I don't know who Ayn Rand is but I kind of hate everyone in my own weird way so probably yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Enjoying reading everyone's take on this. Very interesting.
The issue I have is the holus bolus (sp?) approach, i.e all booers of Goodes are inherently racist.
If the boos are pre or post a racial slur or undertone, those booers are racist. Otherwise, the rest of the boo birds re doing and have done little to no wrong as far as I can see.
Get serious about racism. Start dishing out bans to backwards fans and players who deem it their right to denigrate those that aren't the same as them.
AFL and all sporting bodies have a chance to act in a manner reflective of the ugliness that fuels racism
Yeah your big problem though is that whilever your Eddie Maguires etc are in positions of power within these organisations ain't shit getting done about nothin.Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfMan
So those that choose to boo him because they think he is a complete prat who publically humiliated a 13 year old kid who said an offensive term to him are racist now??
The same term he has most likely heard plenty of times in the past and done nothing about.
From what I see he picked a pretty soft target there to make his stand against.
He chose to publically humilate a child to push an agenda when he could have dealt with her and the matter with a little more class.
Publicly humiliate?
It was the indigenous round last year on the 20th anniversary of winmar's stance against the shit he copped.
He called the kid out by pointing to her and having security deal with it.
It happened in a public place, how foes he deal with the incident in any other way..... Other than ignore, which he shouldn't have to.
He then announced the girl needed to be supported and didn't blame her, rather he pointed out her actions were a product of the society she's growing up in that has continued to send a message that what she did was okay.
He didn't publicly humiliate her. She did that all herself.
Hey Member I'm just looking up 'how to handle getting called an ape with class' should I use google or bing?Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Oh dear member.
Those who choose to boo him because of a racist little girl, are supporting and saying it's ok for little girls to grow up racist. Maybe that little girl might think before calling an aboriginal an ape next time? Maybe instead of having another systemic racist in our society we have a person who actually thinks before they act in the future.
Goodes should always call out racists be they 13 or 99.
Beckham was booed for 3 and a half year at every ground (Even Old Trafford) after being sent off V Argentina @ France98.......it stopped when he scored that free kick which send the "Hereditary Enemy" ( :tongue: ) in 2002 WC.........fair enough skin colour was never in the picture in that example.....but the point is: As a sport figure you must be strong enough to block anything happening outside the pitch (Skin Colour or not involved).......What's the difference calling Hutcho all sort of names (Except he deserves it :lulzturtle:) and what Goodes has been called (? Skin.....and??).....
Because Beckham could have avoided his sendoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
Hutcho could avoid being a **** (although he has no choice for being a gypo).
Unless i missed something Goodes didn't get to choose his skin colour.
Also: so which profession should cop it and which shouldn't?
go on, name them.
id like to know where your cutoff point is.
The difference is hutch or becks weren't booed for standing up for a culture that has been ostracized and forced to live on the fringes of society since their lands were stolen from them.
The most common defense of the booing is that 'he's a dickhead'
What's he done to deserve being labeled a "dickhead" other than to go against the grain of mainstream Australia and have the balls to stand up to the shit thrown at him and his culture? Have I missed him glassine someone in a pub? being done for dui? abusing refs? taking drugs? Beating his wife? What's he done to be labeled a dickhead or any other label that's been thrown at him besides being a proud aboriginal.
Why does standing up against the way aboriginal Australia has been treated for over 200years mean you get labelled a dickhead?
goodes has tried to shine a light on some of the darkest problems we have as a nation..... And the media and the white majority do what they always do, tell him to shut up.
It's an embarrassment that so many Australians can't see how poorly this whole situation reflects on us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
Also should be noted the girl spoke to Goodes the next day and apologised. Id be pretty sure in thinking she has never called any black man an ape since.
also, when he did the "racism has a face" press conference he didn't name her. in fact she has disappeared from view, her mother should probably follow suit. Not sure why but 2 years on and all of a sudden THATS what the booing is about?
why did it stop for 2 years if everyone was so outraged at his treatment of the girl?
All professions ......the key is be strong enough to ignore the idiots....(very difficult to achieve but prob the best way to silence them)Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
well going off our current example:Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
Goodes reacts to the girl. Girls apologises and seems to be not very racist anymore.
Crowd boos, everyone says chill, crowd keeps booing.
I don't think your strategy is working on that one boss.
Yeah but you forgot the War Dance champQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
if no-one says anything, behaviour ends up deemed acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
When does it become okay to make a stand? Or should all behaviour no matter how abhorrent simply be ignored?
The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing
And what was wrong with it?Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
A dance to celebrate a goal that also celebrates his culture in a round of football dedicated to celebrating his culture.... Done towards fans who were giving him shit......good on him.
Plenty of players have reacted to fans taunts before, why can't he?
Or is that fact he used a cultural dance to do it that has so many up in arms? It's the only difference I can see.
I actually like the guy, he reacted the way he reacted and he did the war dance.....and whatever else he did..... I got no problem with.......What I'm saying is: that's why he is being booed and by reacting the way he did it's like fuel for the idiots ......He would have ignored it, then we would not be talking about it now.....he chose not to and here we go
So it's his fault?
so high fives, pointing to the sky, screaming your heart out, ripping your shirt off, sliding on your knees, group hugs, falling to the ground, and fist pumps are ok after scoring a goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
but a traditional dance celebrating your culture during indigenous round isn't.
gotcha.
Ah ok. I get it now. Goodes is to blame for the racist attitudes of a few in the crowd. Everything is his fault.
i dunno, i think a lot of the blame should go to his ancestors too.Quote:
Originally Posted by belchardo
yanno
for being so indigenous.
I'm not trying to tell who's wrong who's right, we both know who's wrong anyway..... I'm only telling you why we are in the situation we are in..... There was 2 ways to go about it: The way it happened and there we are talking about it (and it's good) or my point is he could have gone the other way, ignore it and we wouldn't be talking about it now ( and to me it seems a better way to silence the idiots in a long run).... It will always be difficult to educate the idiots it's better to ignore them (and that might even be a way to start to educate them?)Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35