The A-League Expansion Thread

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

The federal government with their unlimited spending power in the domestic currency need to step up to the plate and deliver the required infrastructure.
Private sector cannot and will not be able to do it due to their limited spending power and the need to make a profit [which there is nothing wrong with either].
The FFA is the worst of both worlds. It behaves like a government but has the limited spending power of a private enterprise.

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oh absolutely there needs to be govt money involved. the fact football isn't even on the radar whilst the state govt is throwing around 1.5b in stadium upgrades just shows how unorganised and terrible the FFA is at greasing the wheel of these scumbag pollies.

problem is the current FFA structure doesn't allow the owners to make a dollar, and thats what they rebel against.
They need to go the route of the American sports, where owners own the league and appoint a commissioner to do their bidding. You wanna see investment? just get a bunch of ego driven rich folk in a room together and tell them there can only be one winner.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

I love it when George Donikian asks a bloke a question and then gives the bloke his answer.... then moves on to his next question and proceeds to answer it for the bloke as well.

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Praise the Gaz. This has frustrated the sh|t out of me for yonks. Mark van Aken's similar but nowhere near as bad.

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Originally Posted by Couscous

Praise the Gaz. This has frustrated the sh|t out of me for yonks. Mark van Aken's similar but nowhere near as bad.

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It annoying isn't it? I mean you want to hear the bloke answer a question don't you couscous? It can be quite frustrating when the guy asking questions doesn't let the bloke answer, isn't it mate? I remember when I was running an interview and I always found the answers more thoughtful if the questioner just asked open ended questions and let the interviewee speak. That's the case isn't it couscous? It's amazing a pro journalist on an Amatuer podcast is the worst culprit isn't it? Actually, it's ironic rather than amazing. Glad we agree.

So, the Middle East.....

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

It annoying isn't it? I mean you want to hear the bloke answer a question don't you couscous? It can be quite frustrating when the guy asking questions doesn't let the bloke answer, isn't it mate? I remember when I was running an interview and I always found the answers more thoughtful if the questioner just asked open ended questions and let the interviewee speak. That's the case isn't it couscous? It's amazing a pro journalist on an Amatuer podcast is the worst culprit isn't it? Actually, it's ironic rather than amazing. Glad we agree.

So, the Middle East.....

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That's why we have the Jetstream Gaz.
I only talk over my fellow hosts :roflz:

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

So, the Middle East.....

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I agree. Praise the Gaz. Tell me more about my answer.

I wish we would type over other people's posts.

https://www.theguardian.com/football...tion-australia

Looks like it's back on the agenda.

defo needs to be a second team from The Hunter - Maitland would be ideal

second team from the Central Coast as well - a Morisset/Gosford derby would dog shit all over Milan/Inter, Celtic/Rangers, Liverpool/Everton etc

Second Division and Pro/Rel is more important than Expansion. Purely for the sake of avoiding the shit storm from AFC in the future.

Save me the B.S about not enough money in the game and the logistics of travel makes a Second Division non viable.
There's plenty of money in the game, there's also plenty of people on the gravy train filling unnecessary positions. As for the travel, fly f*#king economy class.

Promotion and relegation will eventually see regional "poor" teams like Newcastle and The Gypos replaced by capital city teams. This can only be avoided by a relegated A League side having to be replaced by the local NPL winner or it won't be much of a national league. Jets com last and replaced by say Jaffas. Jets last and replaced by Sydney United is unacceptable

Slow expansion and better publicity of NPL is the better solution

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

Promotion and relegation will eventually see regional "poor" teams like Newcastle and The Gypos replaced by capital city teams. This can only be avoided by a relegated A League side having to be replaced by the local NPL winner or it won't be much of a national league. Jets com last and replaced by say Jaffas. Jets last and replaced by Sydney United is unacceptable

Slow expansion and better publicity of NPL is the better solution

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Not if you do it like the Japanese.

Second Division and pro/rel is a must or Australia can kiss the AFC bye bye.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

Promotion and relegation will eventually see regional "poor" teams like Newcastle and The Gypos replaced by capital city teams. This can only be avoided by a relegated A League side having to be replaced by the local NPL winner or it won't be much of a national league. Jets com last and replaced by say Jaffas. Jets last and replaced by Sydney United is unacceptable

Slow expansion and better publicity of NPL is the better solution

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If we're relegated its our own fault. Need to get our shit together. P/R will force our owners to pull the finger out instead of filling the squad with no names from China who've barely played in 3 years.

We should be able to compete with the likes of SU, South Melbourne, Blacktown etc

I for one welcome relegation. We aren't good enough for HAL.

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Originally Posted by Premy

There's plenty of money in the game, there's also plenty of people on the gravy train filling unnecessary positions. As for the travel, fly f*#king economy class.

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I just cried thank you sir for keeping the spirit of the good Member in your heart and spitting some hot fire onto the rest of the people to keep them woke.

Bless you, and bless the Member, wherever he is.....

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Originally Posted by Grimario

I for one welcome relegation. We aren't good enough for HAL.

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Bentley Greens are better than the Jets anyway.
I've always been a massive fan.
Would buy a shirt and/or flag if they made it to the HAL.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

Promotion and relegation will eventually see regional "poor" teams like Newcastle and The Gypos replaced by capital city teams. This can only be avoided by a relegated A League side having to be replaced by the local NPL winner or it won't be much of a national league. Jets com last and replaced by say Jaffas. Jets last and replaced by Sydney United is unacceptable

Slow expansion and better publicity of NPL is the better solution

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It depends how it is done. There is not a need for Pro/Rel to be all the way down the pyramid. We can set up a 2nd division which is closed off from the NPL and have pro/rel only between those two divisions. Whilst you would definetly have big city teams in the 2nd div you would also be silly to not include the major regional areas so across the top two divisions the whole country is covered.

I would shoot for existing NPL teams and/or major regional associations to back a team ie ACT.

That Gives you Brisbane Strikers, Gold Coast City, Fury, Heat, Sunny Coast, Western Pride, Lions. As the Qld options
ACT Fed backed team or Canberra United
Wollongong, Blacktown, Sutherland(Maybe Cronulla NRL backed with Lyall Gorman at the helm), Macarthur, Sydney United, Manly as NSW Options
Sth Melb, Melb Knights, Hume, Bentleigh, Geelong, Dandenong as Vic Options
Tassie state backed team or Sth Hobart
Adelaide City, West Adelaide in SA
Joondalup, Perth SC or a Freo team in WA
NT state backed team out of Darwin
Possibly Auckland City if we continue with having Kiwis in the comp

Out of these would be the best option to get to 14 A league teams and then a second division of 10-14 teams with pro/rel between the 2. You don't need to have Pro/Rel from the NPL comps then, but you would expand the FFA Cup to a Round of 64 to include all the A and B league teams and a heap of NPL teams.

Japan started with 1 closed league, then introduced a second division and now a third. There is no promotion from local leagues to the 3rd div and the AFC are satisfied. Australia will need to introduce it eventually but it definitely will not need to be promotion from the NPL to Aleague.

Imagine how many flares are gonna get ripped if we let proper efnik teams back in with an axe to grind.

Broadcast deal would be mega, must see tv.

St Josephs Broken Hill should be the first team selected for expansion. They even have their own Facebook page so the hard works already done. Just get Gallop to sign off on it and they'd be ready to start in no time at all.

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Originally Posted by Grimario

I for one welcome relegation. We aren't good enough for HAL.

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We'd struggle to get back up :blush:

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Originally Posted by Premy

Second Division and Pro/Rel is more important than Expansion. Purely for the sake of avoiding the shit storm from AFC in the future.

Save me the B.S about not enough money in the game and the logistics of travel makes a Second Division non viable.
There's plenty of money in the game, there's also plenty of people on the gravy train filling unnecessary positions. As for the travel, fly f*#king economy class.

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In other words parents of kids playing junior football at all levels are going to be subsidising the senior teams. Business as usual then. I mean blokes who essentially can't aim up now are making $1000 a game. Put them in a competition with supposedly more status and they will want double that.

The comedy to follow will be immense.

Syd/Mel set the rules...who remembers when Newcastle Rosebud got relegated, after coming 6th!!!

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

Syd/Mel set the rules...who remembers when Newcastle Rosebud got relegated, after coming 6th!!!

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Yes. 1986 and APIA Tigers who finished 7th avoided relegation - is that right ? Following year APIA won the league.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

In other words parents of kids playing junior football at all levels are going to be subsidising the senior teams. Business as usual then. I mean blokes who essentially can't aim up now are making $1000 a game. Put them in a competition with supposedly more status and they will want double that.

The comedy to follow will be immense.

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So kids parents paying the wages of suits and "coaches" in a 3 tiered outdated and redundant governance system is completely fine.

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Originally Posted by Premy

So kids parents paying the wages of suits and "coaches" in a 3 tiered outdated and redundant governance system is completely fine.

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I'm with you on this Premy not against. To me though it's still meet the new boss same as the old boss.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

In other words parents of kids playing junior football at all levels are going to be subsidising the senior teams. Business as usual then. I mean blokes who essentially can't aim up now are making $1000 a game. Put them in a competition with supposedly more status and they will want double that.

The comedy to follow will be immense.

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Dead right!

few points I consider when talking about pro/rel
If the jets got relegated and could not get back up into the a league how can you grow the game in the hunter area without a top flight team? what damage does it do to football overall in the area that is growing
im for expansion and pro/rel but I just don't think Australia is ready for it
think of every team that has come last since inception and replace that team with a big NPL Sydney or Melb club (that's where the promoted teams are most likely to come from) you will have an aleague with 4 Sydney teams 4 melb teams a team from Brisbane and Perth etc

How many a league clubs who already struggle financially would fold straight after relegation?
how many plastic fans would abandon their club after relegation and potentially abandon football altogether with no top flight team in the area anymore

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Originally Posted by Nou Camp

few points I consider when talking about pro/rel
If the jets got relegated and could not get back up into the a league how can you grow the game in the hunter area without a top flight team? what damage does it do to football overall in the area that is growing
im for expansion and pro/rel but I just don't think Australia is ready for it
think of every team that has come last since inception and replace that team with a big NPL Sydney or Melb club (that's where the promoted teams are most likely to come from) you will have an aleague with 4 Sydney teams 4 melb teams a team from Brisbane and Perth etc


How many a league clubs who already struggle financially would fold straight after relegation?
how many plastic fans would abandon their club after relegation and potentially abandon football altogether with no top flight team in the area anymore

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Agree but I think expanding to 14 teams in the A league is the first priority, and you could not have Pro/Rel without a closed off national 2nd divison

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Originally Posted by The Camel

Agree but I think expanding to 14 teams in the A league is the first priority, and you could not have Pro/Rel without a closed off national 2nd divison

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I'd be surprised if another 4 teams could be found ? The bigger non a-league clubs do just fine the way things are why would they want to flush that away to join a competition which is full of uncertainty?

They have the FFA cup to show what they can do and so far it's demonstrated just how far off the pace they are - and that's in a format which suits them. On a week to week basis none of the old NSL clubs that remain in some form or another could step in and be competitive over an entire season. Sure they could buy players but where from ?

Add to this the fact that we don't have enough quality refs for a ten team comp - where are the refs coming from for the extra two fixtures ?

Auckland, Fury, Gold Coast, Jets, and Mariners, to name a few... have either been kicked out or should have been so far for financial reasons - how will adding four more teams not result in more of the same or worse.

We don't need to be bossed about by the Asian confederation either - they need Australia in there and they know it. We should do what's best for us and ignore what is best for Asia if it's not in our best interest.

Alternatively - get rid of the salary cap, have no restrictions on foreign players, increase access for gaming / gambling - and let the market decide what the game is worth once and for all.

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Originally Posted by Nou Camp

If the jets got relegated and could not get back up into the a league how can you grow the game in the hunter area without a top flight team? what damage does it do to football overall in the area that is growing

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how are they growing the damn thing at the moment with the shitrabble they toss out there every week?

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Originally Posted by Nou Camp

few points I consider when talking about pro/rel
If the jets got relegated and could not get back up into the a league how can you grow the game in the hunter area without a top flight team? what damage does it do to football overall in the area that is growing
im for expansion and pro/rel but I just don't think Australia is ready for it
think of every team that has come last since inception and replace that team with a big NPL Sydney or Melb club (that's where the promoted teams are most likely to come from) you will have an aleague with 4 Sydney teams 4 melb teams a team from Brisbane and Perth etc

How many a league clubs who already struggle financially would fold straight after relegation?
how many plastic fans would abandon their club after relegation and potentially abandon football altogether with no top flight team in the area anymore

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This.

We should get 2 extra teams before relo for mine. South Sydney Shire, Canberra, Taz or whoever can stump up a min 5yr deal.

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Originally Posted by Nou Camp

How many a league clubs who already struggle financially would fold straight after relegation?
how many plastic fans would abandon their club after relegation and potentially abandon football altogether with no top flight team in the area anymore

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if they cant produce on the field they don't deserve the protection that no relegation provides them.
if they get relegated and go bust, they'll be replaced by another team with their own set of fans.

eventually you get a second tier that is fighting for promotion, so they become stronger, and they are then able to "survive" dropping back down.

we need pro/rel to stop the a-league clubs from being even more complacent, and to stop the NPL clubs from giving up all hope - look what Marconi have done, they've no chance to get to the big league so they've banked their cash and are waiting in the lower leagues till pro/rel becomes reality and then they'll start investing in the team again.

neither NPL or A-league clubs need to invest in their football, the top tier have no fear of being dropped, and the lower tier have no hope of being able to sit at the big table.

if the jets got punted, then it'd be up to Magic, or Edgeworth, or whoever sits in the second tier to build a support base that is strong enough to see the club step up successfully. uif that means the hunter doesn't have a team in the top tier, that's fine, because it'd mean a better footballing team is in there in their place. Ina salary capped league a Melbourne/Sydney centric league would be less likely, when clubs are given the incentive to invest in the footballing departments to avoid relegation



pro-rel is needed - but will only work if the second teir - and maybe even a third (perhaps based on geography) are set up first, but it needs to happen quickly before the gap between full time professionals and amateur football becomes too much wider.
itwould also need to be supported by a very big TV deal, that see relgated clubs supported as is the case in Ingurland

stadiums would be the biggest issue.

Jets go down who pays the rent at Hunter Stadium?

No chance they cover costs.

im a big supporter of the promotion relegation, but some real talk needs to be had before its viable.

Marconi gonna invest in their ground to make it an all seater/lighting compatible with only a 1 year guarantee?

i say no, so where does that leave us?

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

if they cant produce on the field they don't deserve the protection that no relegation provides them.
if they get relegated and go bust, they'll be replaced by another team with their own set of fans.

eventually you get a second tier that is fighting for promotion, so they become stronger, and they are then able to "survive" dropping back down.

we need pro/rel to stop the a-league clubs from being even more complacent, and to stop the NPL clubs from giving up all hope - look what Marconi have done, they've no chance to get to the big league so they've banked their cash and are waiting in the lower leagues till pro/rel becomes reality and then they'll start investing in the team again.

neither NPL or A-league clubs need to invest in their football, the top tier have no fear of being dropped, and the lower tier have no hope of being able to sit at the big table.

if the jets got punted, then it'd be up to Magic, or Edgeworth, or whoever sits in the second tier to build a support base that is strong enough to see the club step up successfully. uif that means the hunter doesn't have a team in the top tier, that's fine, because it'd mean a better footballing team is in there in their place. Ina salary capped league a Melbourne/Sydney centric league would be less likely, when clubs are given the incentive to invest in the footballing departments to avoid relegation



pro-rel is needed - but will only work if the second teir - and maybe even a third (perhaps based on geography) are set up first, but it needs to happen quickly before the gap between full time professionals and amateur football becomes too much wider.
itwould also need to be supported by a very big TV deal, that see relgated clubs supported as is the case in Ingurland

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Hysteresis and the failure of the Efficient Markets Hypothesis to explain empirical data suggests FFA are not even close on this one.

Markets do not work like the fairytale TV / Texbook version a lot of people get. When they go under they damage the entire system - not just parts of it.

Football is the premier code in England and Europe. In Australia it's barely third tier making investment very difficult to find.

If a team fails here communities suffer and the effects don't go away overnight.

The idea that teams will be replaced by better ones and so on is just not supported.

With respect to investment all the data says that investment is linked to income. Income increases so to investment. Cost of investment in isolation has little to no meaning at all.
The only reason any business invests is because income has increased and they see an opportunity to put their fingers into the pie.
I cannot see how increasing the number of teams would attract investment in the league.

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Originally Posted by plague

stadiums would be the biggest issue.

Jets go down who pays the rent at Hunter Stadium?

No chance they cover costs.

im a big supporter of the promotion relegation, but some real talk needs to be had before its viable.

Marconi gonna invest in their ground to make it an all seater/lighting compatible with only a 1 year guarantee?

i say no, so where does that leave us?

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http://www.evilenglish.net/wp-conten...t-a-paddle.jpg

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

http://www.evilenglish.net/wp-conten...t-a-paddle.jpg

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and the only way that could end is with Con, at the helm of his paddle steamer, valiantly rescuing our damsel in distress.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

I'd be surprised if another 4 teams could be found ? The bigger non a-league clubs do just fine the way things are why would they want to flush that away to join a competition which is full of uncertainty?

They have the FFA cup to show what they can do and so far it's demonstrated just how far off the pace they are - and that's in a format which suits them. On a week to week basis none of the old NSL clubs that remain in some form or another could step in and be competitive over an entire season. Sure they could buy players but where from ?

Add to this the fact that we don't have enough quality refs for a ten team comp - where are the refs coming from for the extra two fixtures ?

Auckland, Fury, Gold Coast, Jets, and Mariners, to name a few... have either been kicked out or should have been so far for financial reasons - how will adding four more teams not result in more of the same or worse.

We don't need to be bossed about by the Asian confederation either - they need Australia in there and they know it. We should do what's best for us and ignore what is best for Asia if it's not in our best interest.

Alternatively - get rid of the salary cap, have no restrictions on foreign players, increase access for gaming / gambling - and let the market decide what the game is worth once and for all.

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What a load of nonsense. Add four or five imports to South Melbourne, plus one or two they pinch of other A league clubs and they would be very competative. Ditto with Adelaide City, 2nd Brisbane team any number of Sydney teams or other Melbourne teams. I would say you could find more than 4 teams. The problem the FFA has is outside the bigger cities (Sydney/Melbourne) you have problems attracting crowds.

No problem with NSL clubs getting competent sides on the park. It's off the field the problems will be - can you honestly believe that South Melbourne will have a support base in Melbourne that is not of a Greek majority? Can they change that demographic because they have been saying they will for the last 20 years (right back to the Lakers days) and I still hear the "Hellas" chant. Same applies to Marconi, Sydney United and Melbourne Knights.

Football fans won't see this as a problem but the general media and sporting public will see it as a return to "wogball" and a Sydney/Melbourne focussed competition. This is why I want FFA to step up in their support for CCM, the Jets and other regional sides - they are truly needed. You lose us two and bring in SM and Marconi and you take a huge step backward.

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

Football fans won't see this as a problem but the general media and sporting public will see it as a return to "wogball" and a Sydney/Melbourne focussed competition.

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This post here is all the truth and knowledge you need.

The only way it will work is if the second tier comp is made up of new plastic rebranded clubs that have no obvious connection to the old school clubs.
Might work, might not, but we sure as heck ain't getting the words 'Marconi' of 'olympic' in the top flight of football in this country ever again.

It has the potential to **** our rivarly up with the gypos.

We need to expand first. Southern sydney/gong, canberra and geelong. Brisbane if they can get a second stadium 15-20k in the west.

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Originally Posted by Superdylan

It has the potential to **** our rivarly up with the gypos.

We need to expand first. Southern sydney/gong, canberra and geelong. Brisbane if they can get a second stadium 15-20k in the west.

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Why would it **** our rivalry up? We're both shit and will maintain our rivalry in the second division without issue.