chief wiggins too good
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chief wiggins too good
parksey the pom ?Quote:
Originally Posted by parksey
"cheers, don't get too drunk"
Evans smashed a heart string so no olympics. :violin:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-2...titles/4220530Quote:
Armstrong likely to be stripped of Tour titles
Seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong is likely to be stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned from cycling for life after dropping his fight against doping charges.
The news means Armstrong is likely to lose all of the Tour de France titles he won between 1999 and 2005.
Armstrong issued a statement saying "enough is enough" in his attempts to clear his name with the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA).
"There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, 'enough is enough.' For me, that time is now," he said.
Armstrong has always maintained his innocence.
More to follow.
http://lancearmstrong.com/news-event...august-23-2012Quote:
Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012
AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.
I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.
If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?
From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.
The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.
USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.
Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.
not sure what to think really. Armstrongs statement does make it look like USADA are gunning for him, but cheats should know they can be caught at any time (and i'm not categorically saying he is one).
on his statement, i found this lin interesting: "The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced." i don't know if i'm reading too much into it, but it sounds like the kind of statement that a politician makes when saying something they know is technically correct, but not morally/ethically correct.
It will be interesting, my understanding is the USADA can ban him, but the UCI makes the call on the validity of the titles.
The UCI isn't going after him, so he may not lose the tour titles.
Personally, whether he was doped up to the eyeballs or not, I am not sure what benefit all this has for the sport. It doesn't assist in cleaning the sport as it is today. I'd prefer that they looked at current riders rather than go 7years+ back in time.
it could be argued that it will make current riders think twice about using drugs that aren't being detected at the moment.
^ I agree with belchardo.
disgrace
OK, based on everything you've now read and heard, who thinks he cheated?
I say no.
I would say no more than any other rider of that era which is why I see no benefit in chasing him down. Focus on keeping the sport clean today.
The UCI have no interest in chasing him, and the USADA seems more like a few people trying to make a name for themselves. I agree with Armstrong in that the arbitration process doesn't appear to be balanced or fair.
I wouldn't be surprised if the USADA ban him for life, but the UCI don't strip him of any titles.
sameQuote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
I'm in two minds about this whole sordid affair
I mean, I'm a cancer survivor and Armstrong has been a great inspiration and all that even though he has only one testicle
but on the other hand he's quite the **** and from stuff I've heard from a guy who works at the AIS he was heavily doping for many, many years
On a positive note at least no Australian athletes are on the juice :gent:
I read the USADA letter outlining the charges.
Either thy have very vivid imaginations, or he's a cheat.
They have over 100 riders, including teammates willing to testify against him.
He's a cheat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
Alright look up to Craig Moore now as your inspiration
What is probably the most ridiculous part about this is the methods Anti Doping groups are going to. There is no POSITIVE sample of piss or blood that says Lance was guilty of doping. They are going off the say so of people whose motives may or may not be genuine.
Can fully understand Lance just going **** it take the titles of me now I just don't care anymore. Keeping them ain't worth the aggravation.
At the end of the day I believe he was on it but no one has caught him at the time or after the event so where is the presumption of innocence??
The whole thing is a ****ing DISGRACE
C'mon too many of you blokes sitting on the fence.
Gun to your head, is he a cheat?
Yes or No.
pantani at least had the grace to die
oh yeah, brag post, trying to get to Madrid for the second last stage of the vuelta on the bola del mundo if the ball and chain lets me, if not just final stage in the city, tough life eh
afternoon tv coverage with beers and salami is pretty farken sweet though I must say
no. They are all on the drugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Have you seen the charges laid before him?
http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...arging0613.pdf
Pg10,11 suggest he has tested positive, and it was covered up.
I've seen the charges, I just dpn't like the USADA process.
I do think he was on it, but he was on it no more/less than the rest of the peleton of the time. Do the USADA now move on and chase the riders who inherit the titles. Where do you stop. I would much prefer all this time and effort went into ensuring the sport is clean now, not retrospectively trying to catch people from a time when everyone was on it.
At the end of the day has hasn't tested positive, if the USADA has evidence otherwise, why have they waited so long. Add to that the incentives they have given people to testify (delaying and shortening sanctions to the offseason) the whole process is hardly transparent.
I actually give armstrong kudos for drawing the line and saying enough is enough and putting himself in the position where they will now try and take the titles. If he went into arbitration, the way the USADA process is set up he wasn't going to get a fair trial.
Its obvious what the USADA are going to do with this, what really matters will be where the UCI goes, and I don't think they will be as aggressive as the USADA are.
End result, banned for life, no titles lost.
Those rumours have been around for a long time and have never been substantiated. If they were true, that would have massive implications for the UCI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Fish
Yes the most damning evidence is riders who are gonna grass him up.
Lets have a look at the motivations for these individuals. Some of them are doing it to protect themselves from their own drug use and possible sanctions that may be imposed on them. Some of these blokes are getting a 6 month ban from Cycling for Grassing Lance up.
Lets also take note of when this suspension is occurring and it will take in the little end of season races, the close season and the early season races. None of these races have that level of importance placed on them by cyclists such as the Grand Tours and the Classics.
The equivalent ban would be to suspend one of the Jets in March for 6 months and have them miss play off games (None) and pre season hitouts ( Not necessary -See Tiago)
Basically these cyclists are getting a 6 month holiday from the sport and missing **** all of it. They can put their feet up have a good holiday. Then put in a Couple of months of solid training and come back to the Pro Level ready to rumble. Great punishment ain't it??
Also how many of these people have some sort of axe to grind against Armstrong?? After all they flogged their guts out for him for years and from all reports Lance is an all about me type of fella. Could some of them be pissed enough to make accusations to bury him due his attitude to them in the past.
Make no mistake about it this is a WITCH HUNT from start to finish. Provide some decent evidence like a failed test not slanderous accusations from people with questionable motives or samples that look a bit iffy.
The harassment and abuse Lance has copped is a ****ing disgrace whether he is clean or not.
Either put up or shut up
Spot on MFKS, sums up my perspective exactly.
Personally, I am now thinking of doing a fresh order of Livestrong bands. And thats part of what shits me about the witch hunt, the implications will spread far beyond cycling and all based on evidence that is essentially hearsay. Most courts wouldn't accept it, but the USADA is a law unto itself where you are guilty till proven innocent.
Word on the street is Nike have come out and stated they will still stand behind livestrong.
But since when is the "everyone else was doing it" defence and accepted one?
I agree they should just focus on current issues.
All this does is remind people how drug fueled the sport has been.
My opinion is he was on it as was everyone else, but from all the testing he has undergone, he has not tested positive. So from all evidence he wasn't on it. Suggestions of a covered positive result are vastly different to actually testing positive. Facing a sanction based on hearsay where incentives have been offered and deals done with those testifying, well that case if fundamentally flawed from the start.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Fish
The whole Cycling is drug fueled thing is a joke. Cycling authorities have been more than up front trying to deal with drugs in their sport. Many other sports have shown little interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Fish
Take our wonderful game for example. How many drug tests are done on footballers?? With the amount of money involved in the game and the authorities pretty lax attitudes towards drug use it is more than likely more wide spread than believed.
Cycling and Athletics are at least at the fore front of trying to chase down drug cheats. Other sports have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to drugs. Take ALF for example they operate on a confidential 3 strikes policy??FMD
i love it how one of the key witnesses is floyd ****ing landis
maybe we should release all inmates who've been convicted on an eye witness testimony...string him up I say !
Never thought I'd say this: but well said MFKS. Agree 100%Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
So, not one test "positive" but one would assume this statement suggests a pattern of results from a series of tests that are consistent with doping.Quote:
Lance Armstrong's doping is further evidenced by the data from blood collections obtained by the UCI from Lance Armstrong in 2009 and 2010. This data is fully consistent with blood manipulation including EPO use and/or blood transfusions.
wasn't legitimately & publicly found to be cheating at the time, or during the time that a case can be held open. not guilty.
Hasn't defended the charges, just said "I'm not dealing with this"
We was pedaling drugs as well as his bike.
he's been defending the charges for about 10 years. like he said "enough is enough"
He's been denying.Quote:
Originally Posted by parksey
Denying something isn't the same as defending.
Otherwise Arsenal would keep clean sheets every game. Wenger would simply deny seeing the goal and viola! 3pts!
Assuming we score
isn't denying the same as defending in this case? he's said he didn't do it, he's taken it to court, but now he's come to an apparent brick wall that he can't defend any more as it's not going to help.
The solution to drugs in cycling is easy. Make the khunts eat a meat pie and skull a beer every 20km's.
or he realises its the end of the road, and the evidence is overwhelming.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
or he's just like "**** this, i'm lance armstrong"