Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
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Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
all well and good if you live in newy - wanna house in sydney where your job requires you to be? fcken forget it pal, 500k won't even get you a car-space an hour's commute away.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
bet you live in a mansion like hawk as well ay
Bloody hawk.. Always flaunting his wad.. :rof:Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
I was at Castle Hill until the mid 80's. It's a long way from town but even in 1984 - $250k didn't get you a mansion. To put it in perspective if you were bringing home $600 a week in 1984 you were doing pretty well.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
It's going to be interesting for nurses, teachers, social workers... and so on in the future. Where will they live ? They won't be able to live close to the city unless they marry well ? They will also be burdened my massive education debts ... and so on.
Inventing Microsoft Windows was no small feat though. Money well deserved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bon
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-0...alks_FBP%7Cabc
What's Abbott scared of?Quote:
Prime Minister Tony Abbott is facing further criticism after rejecting the idea of Indigenous-led talks on constitutional recognition.
Several Aboriginal leaders want an Indigenous consensus on reform, before wider community consultations take place.
Indigenous leaders Patrick Dodson, Noel Pearson, Kirstie Parker and Megan Davis created a proposal for a series of conventions to allow Indigenous people to have their say first.
But Mr Abbott said there was a "risk" an Indigenous-only process might produce something close to a "log of claims".
"My anxiety about a separate Indigenous process is that it jars with a notion of finally substituting 'we' for 'them and us'," Mr Abbott wrote to the group.
"I am in favour of building consensus, but strongly believe this should be a national consensus in favour of a particular form of recognition rather than simply an Indigenous one.
"The risk with an Indigenous-only — or even an Indigenous-first — process is that it might produce something akin to a log of claims that is unlikely to receive general support.
"I accept these community conferences need to take place in a way that give Indigenous people ample opportunity to have their say."
Ms Parker, the co-chair of the National Congress of Australia's First Peoples, said she was dismayed by Mr Abbott's comments.
What do you think? Should the Government adopt the proposal or is there too much 'risk'? Have your say.
"The Prime Minister's talked about a more general process that we don't think is satisfactory, will make it difficult if not impossible for our people to arrive at some sort of broad position in any direction," Ms Parker said.
"What [Indigenous-only consultation] hopefully will lead to is an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander broad position.
"We are not giving up on the request that we've made to Government on this."
Ms Parker disagreed the proposal might lead to something like a "log of claims".
Prime Minister Tony Abbott talks to the media at a doorstop press conference after after addressing guests in Adelaide
PHOTO Prime Minister Tony Abbott said there was a "risk" an Indigenous-only process might produce something close to a "log of claims".
AAP IMAGE: BEN MACMAHON
"It's unfortunate to see it couched in that way because it really is ensuring that the people this referendum is about have a say in the sort of matters that are taken up in it," she said.
Indigenous leaders at the Garma Festival in East Arnhem Land yesterday expressed disappointment Mr Abbott did not accept the plan.
The ABC last night sought comment from Indigenous Affairs Minister Nigel Scullion and the co-chair of the constitutional recognition parliamentary committee, Liberal MP Ken Wyatt.
Opposition Indigenous affairs spokesman Shayne Neumann tweeted: "How deeply disappointing the PM has not accepted the proposal of respected Indigenous leaders."
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten said the proposal needed to be considered.
"We need to remain flexible on how we achieve constitutional recognition," he said.
"Part of that is ensuring Indigenous Australians have their views genuinely heard.
"I encourage Mr Abbott to keep an open mind about this proposal."
Why can't the the leaders of the longest continuous culture be afforded the respect of being allowed to lead discussions on how they are recognized by the constitution.
What message does it send when what Abbott really wants is to dictate terms.... "Well recognize you, but only in the way we see fit"
Geezus **** I wish this country would grow up, leadership of our nation is embarrassing.
The very existence of the Aboriginal people kicks seven shades of shit out of his religous beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
So we want to promote togetherness by first isolating ourselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
Looks like a bigger issue of distrust on both sides.
Besides, I thought the 'sorry' ceremony solved all this nasty division stuff?
Don't tell me I've been lied to all these years.
Hahahahaha.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Very good sir.
Oh I agree, but there are other ways around it, and they generally involve huge sacrifices in order to get the end result you are after.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
I certainly don't live where I want to ultimately be, but for now I'm within my means and working towards something.
I don't know anyone that has it 100% thier way (apart from Hawk it seems) so we all gotta make decisions.
I just hate the notion that people are out there blaming the Gubmint because they can't get what they want.
i blame boomer scum, need another vietnam to sort them out
Easier still.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
Pick where you want to live.
Submit plans to council to build a mosque.
Watch values fall as everyone gets in a tizz.
Put in your offer.
The data suggests otherwise. Many people through no fault of their own cannot find jobs, or are working for wages well below what they are legally entitled to. There are also many business owners who are legally forced to pay more than they can afford or are servicing contracts for values which barely meet their costs of production.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Productivity gains over the past 40 years have essentially gone to the capitalist classes rather than the workers [ You can put most small business owners in with workers].
This means that while wages have grown they have not grown as fast as output.
When you look at the lower end of the wages spectrum they are not keeping pace.
The consequence is that wages incomes are insufficient to buy the goods and services available for sale.
Therefore, without resorting to credit - inventories will build up, production will wind back.. and unemployment results.
The role of government traditionally has been to fill the spending gap via fiscal policy.
This tradition was broken by the banking sector who lobbied governments to engage in what is called fiscal consolidation.
Fiscal consolidation is good for banks as it forces people to use credit.
Another issue is the banking sector have also effectively lobbied to keep the return on deposits lower than the returns on their banks shares.
This means lower interest rates tempt people to invest in bank shares rather than merely deposit the money into an account.
Bank share prices increase.... and......so on.
This is the problem. Government do a hell of a lot for the top end of town and sfa for small business and workers.
I live well below my means but many are not so lucky.
Indigenous leaders want to lead the discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Abbott is the one using "indigenous-only" discussions.
And who out of the two groups might be most likely to not trust the other?
Hey m8 what did Andrew Gaze ever do to youQuote:
Originally Posted by q-money
Dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
And nor do you.
But it's always easy to blame Tony Abbott for everything that's going on in the world innit?
Geez, I even read today that he hasn't 'done enough' in the Adam Goodes saga.
FMD the bloke is a pickle at times but once you get that rep you ain't ever shaking it huh?
Everything you said could be 100% true but I will never alter my belief that the human endeavour and desire to succeed and achieve will get anyone anything they want if they really want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
People can blame everyone and every thing for the woes in their life and forever stay in their lane.
Others don't see it that way and have done something about it.
whichever way people want it I'm cool with. I just won't have people crying about it.
Also you might want to consider that all sides of politics are sporting the change to the referendum.
Painting it as Abbott disagrees is a bit cheeky.
Not much attention was paid to the quote regarding a general consensus giving the changes the best chance of being passed by the general public (who will have final say).
Go back and look at why the referendum on the Republic failed despite everyone kinda sorta wanting it to happen.
Maybe people learned some lessons from that.
The barriers for many are a lot greater than you imagine. To imply they are not trying hard enough only demonstrates a lack of understanding on your part.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
People can apply for several thousand jobs that they are more than capable of being able to do and not get a single job offer.
Others can apply for jobs they are not capable or qualified to do and be offered the job on the spot.
I've had students that were dumb as a box of rocks walk into jobs in the finance sector earning well into six figures and yet seen other students far more capable not even be offered interviews for lesser positions. Didn't go to the right school, wrong address, tits too small, ass too big / small, not confident enough, didn't smile enough, too quiet, not the right cultural fit... the list goes on.
There comes a point where everyone exhausts their options and simply gives in - and for many people several thousand rejections for employment is not uncommon.
I'd be willing to bet you would have given up long before many others had you been forced to walk in their shoes.
I'm glad you haven't reached this point but many people have and for them you should probably show some empathy.
The most important factor too success often comes down to good old fashion luck.
The richest man to have ever lived would never have become so were it not for a civil war breaking out between the north and the south. His little tobacco selling business boomed as the demand for the product by soldiers escalated. Once the confict subsided he had plenty of money and decided to buy into this new venture where oil was extracted from the ground......
the rest is history.
Were it not for the civil war, and the discovery of oil, and the stupidity of the US government introducing the Sherman ACT - JD Rockefeller would not have become the first billionaire in history.
Note: selling out his own brother certainly helped get him there as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Who's painting it that abbots doesn't agree with the referendum?
Indigenous leaders want to lead the discussion to come to conseus before the poll.
Abbott has said he doesn't want it to run that way and uses emotive language to paint the idea of indigenous leadership being given the opportunity to lead this important discussion as one that will lead to trouble.
Happy to take "Abbott" out of this whole discussion and my point still stands leadership in this country on important issues such as the treatment of our indigenous peoples is an embarrassment to this nation. KRudd's (sorry to name names) apology on behalf of the parliament and people excluded.
Not about not trying hard enough. I just believe that good things happen to good people. I'm not down on anybody. Quite the opposite, I'd fall over myself helping people get what they want, I like to see people happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
I know you are overstating just a shade but in reality if someone is failing thousands of interviews then I'd say something is seriously wrong with thier approach and or expectations. I don't agree with the whole "well I studied 5 years to be an accountant therefore I will only work as an accountant I'm not prepared to do otherwise". Sometimes you gotta go a couple steps back to go a few forward. (Well according to Paula Abdul anyway).
Failing criteria like wrong school etc is all too common (and sad, and unfair, and infuriating) but I'd flip it around and ask why someone would want to be involved in an organisation so elitist? Wanting a job with people like that kind of exposes your own desires to be 'one of them', encouraging the behaviour.
Man, I was at that 'Newcastle club' with a friends dad once, the nonsense that group of wankers went on with was truly embarrassing. Why anyone would want to be involved in something like that astounds me.
I've never had a chance to 'give up'. I've never had a proper job interview in my life. I have zero bits of paper to tell everyone how good I am at anything in particular. I chose a path to go down living my life and not having qualifications or a leg up has made it difficult. But things are working out so I'm happy, and if they change then you reset and go again.
I became a university lecturer simply because I drank beers on a thursday with the right people. It had nothing to do with ability or hard work.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
I got out of it for reasons similar to what you describe with the "Newcastle Club".
I now work in a low wage job and I am having the time of my life.
I'd say the ABC article was def painting it as Abbott derailing the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
As I said about the Republic referendum, they did the same thing. The biggest criticism was that they did it all their own way and gave a half assed proposal to the public. Even though the polls said it was something we wanted it got voted down because it wasn't thorough enough.
I read the article as Abbott saying lets get it right so people will understand and 'want' to vote it in.
Whichever way you look at it the constitution is a 'white fella' document. It is rightly being changed to include all Australians but ask yourself how it will be perceived by the 'white fella population' if only one part of the population was in charge of it.
Sadly a fair bit of politics and compromise needs to be played here. At least one pollie is having an opinion on it, unlike the flour and water paste that comes out of Shortens mouth in that article. Pollies are so friggin scared of offending someone these days their public statements are generally so lame. If they captained our football teams it would take them half an hour to decide which way to run because they'd need to run it past the focus group first.
But serious question: in your mind exactly what did Rudds apology achieve? and do you think it has made things better/worse or the same for indigenous Australians?
So that's my point. You went one way, you weren't happy, so you changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
You won.
I just wish more people looked at that as the goal rather than status/money/adulation from people they don't like anyway.
easy to say when you live in a mansion
Gee mate, you went to all that trouble to come up with that right wing Murdoch rubbish!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Like I said a person high up in a Management role has a low opinion of this Abbott Government but you seem to know better
Out of both Abbott and Bull Shitten, i'd rather none of them. I fear for the future under either, Shorten has no balls to come up with his own Policies and looks like a startled deer in front of the Cameras.
That being said as soon as they asked me to jump id ask them how high
Loss/Loss situation
hey, good for you. the way you copied and pasted one of the Members posts yet somehow got the mirror image to reflect the other side.Quote:
Originally Posted by stopper2
thats a talent.
well in.
serious though i do hope you survive the next 18 months before the Abbott govt gets turfed.
and seeing as though I'm unfamiliar with the 'Murdoch right wing rubbish' you speak of maybe you can go back and explain your original point.
(oh, and YOUR thoughts please, not the musings of your manager mate).
what was the situation like back then? now, you're up against wunderkids with h-index of a billion and a zillion publications and 10 book chapters by age 28. no chance competing against that level of game :'(Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
If they wish to keep differentiating themselves we will never get anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
They are as Australian as you or me.
High time they accepted that they are Australian and we can all move on and forward.
This constant bringing up of the past achieves little but more division
To me the ball is in the court of the Aboriginal community to instigate change.
They for some reason feel the need to constantly pass it to the government to sort this situation out.
Change will not come until they are prepared to accept some realities they ignore
When a very small percentage of Aboriginals were accused of crimes against children entire communities were shut down before any due process was entered into. The end result being that absolutely no charges were ever laid against a single person.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
In the case of the Catholic Church the government and powers that be did not place a lockdown on all members of the catholic church for similar crimes by a small percentage of the church.
It's hardly a level playing field.
I was lucky the dice fell in my favour. A lot of people have no such luck. Some people have little education, no family or network of friends.. and so on. Some people can do it on their own but a lot of people simply can't and our current society rather than help them wants to lay the boot into them and accept no responsibility for the plight of others less fortunate.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
The evidence does not support your theory. Once someone with a degree accepts a shit job they tend to be behind the eight-ball from then on.Quote:
I know you are overstating just a shade but in reality if someone is failing thousands of interviews then I'd say something is seriously wrong with thier approach and or expectations. I don't agree with the whole "well I studied 5 years to be an accountant therefore I will only work as an accountant I'm not prepared to do otherwise". Sometimes you gotta go a couple steps back to go a few forward. (Well according to Paula Abdul anyway).
If someone has a shit job to start with then does a degree they can move forward a lot easier.
However, go to the right school and know the right people and you can get work as an intern at the RBA and places of that ilk when people with 1st class honours degrees in economics or accounting won't even get an interview let alone an internship.
So to say people need to go a couple of steps back is simply avoiding the real problem.
The labour market is rampantly discriminative and productivity, skill, hard work.. and so on mean sweet **** all.
See, the real problem I have is the use of the term 'shit job', as if it's 'below' some people to work jobs their fancy bits of paper tell them they don't deserve.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
These are the same people that look down their nose at Gerry Harvey the door to door vacuum salesman but would grovel at the feet of Gerry Harvey the billionaire even though Harvey is the same bloke doing the same job.
I have zero ****ing pity for those people and tend to find them the most miserable because they somehow feel they deserve more.
And if hard work skill and productivity mean nowt then I must be the luckiest son of a bitch alive and not even realise.
And HOW DARE you question Paula Abdul!!!!!
You don't have a clue.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Unemployment and underemployment are due to insufficient aggregate demand.
It has nothing to do with people being snobbish about the types of jobs they accept.
The problem is that HR types flag anyone that takes a lesser job as either being inferior or indeed lazy and not wanting to progress.
That's why the job is shit. Not because one form of emplyment is better or worse in my eyes.
Often it is better to be unemployed than tarnish your reputation [in the eyes of HR types]
I retired over twelve years ago from academia. If I wanted to go back I could very easily do so.
However, were it to be known I had worked in lesser emplyments nobody would touch me with a bargepole.
I'd be better off saying I been on holidays for over a decade.
The other problem is that a lot of people are forced to obtain degrees to gain emplyoment that doesn't require a degree.
Alternatively, a lot of people hold offices they don't have the correct training for but are gifted the role due to little more than breeding.
I look down at Gerry Harvey not because he sold vaccums I do it because he's a hypocrite. The seeling vaccums is something to be proud of
On one hand he wants people to buy Australian and on the other he's in Bed with Italian / Chinese manufacturers and lobbying the government to allow him to bring in foreign labour that he can pay less than award conditions would otherwise allow.
If Harvey is your hero you have set the bar very low indeed.
For the record I don't have anytime for people with masters degrees unless they did so after obtaining first class honours in a relevant degree.
With respect to PhD's I know what it's like and have a lot of respect for anyone that's has done the grind even if I disagree with them.
There is nothing more rigorous, mentally and or emotionally taxing than completing your doctorate.
Those that do it and keep a marriage and family together are miracle workers. It ain't easy like you seem to assume.
Well all I can say is thank **** I don't live in your world.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
and if 'not having a clue' has got me this far, then heaven help the world if I ever get one.
The sad thing is we are going to end up with a massive skills shortage because people simply won't want to take a punt on education / training unless they are going to be gifted a position before they even start a degree. Even TAFE training now that they are pricing it up yet winding the quality down is bcoming less of an option for many.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
For the gregarious types it won't matter so much as they will be able to talk their way up the ladder. For the quiet, reserved and shy types like myself and many others who rely on results to seperate us from the crowd I'd say the future is bleak to say the least.
If I was a twenty something these days I'd be shitting myself about the future. Fortunately, I had a lot of help along the way - help which these days doesn't appear to exist anymore.
Nothing is more true than ignorance being bliss.
Gosh damn Dunster. I can't say I disagree with you, but as I am going for a position shortly based on nothing but my own skill, knowledge and hard work you have got me all depressed.
my motivational skills are piss poor even on my best day. Sorry about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmac79