BK and Free Kicks

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

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Originally Posted by pv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGs5wA-8gXI

3:15 onwards, just found it.

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Cheers

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Originally Posted by BodyNovo

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

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This for me

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Originally Posted by pv4

I feel like I've answered how relevant comparing the two is about 3 times now.

And for what it's worth, there is a possibility it is even more relevant in the fact that Biraz is still contracted to us for next season, so very well could be back playing for us again - and having forms of comparisons for when this arises can't be a bad thing.

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I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.



But the question was how is a comparison between birraz and bk freekick conceding stats relevant to BK's positioning at free kicks? There are far to many variables over the course of 2 and 1/2 seasons and within each situation, to suggest it's an indicator of poor positioning alone. You can't simplify things so much.

When the next free kick happens, if bk is in the right spot, or the wrong spot, this has nothing to do with birraz, or whether he's conceeded more or less than him.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.

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This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.

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Originally Posted by BodyNovo

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

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I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

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Originally Posted by MFKS

I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.

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wish the we would discuss the 10 other shit blokes just as much.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

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Heya, he found one!!

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Originally Posted by pv4

Heya, he found one!!

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Should start a thread about it I guess.

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Originally Posted by pv4

This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.

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There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.

This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.

The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either. The way you dismiss the Goodwin freekick past janjetavic as "nearly a corner" is another example of too many variables to simplify multiple seasons on simply the result.

If we do this, let's just look at goals against and decide the best keeper in the world in 1993 was me as I only conceeded 2 goals in 26 games. It's not accurate analysis and cheapens the work keepers do.

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I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.

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Originally Posted by De-Champ

I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.

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Wear the badge with honour

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,

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Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.

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Originally Posted by pv4

Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.

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Then just say 4 goals in bugger all appearances is damning, not that 4 when compared to birraz is damning.

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.

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OK, now we're thinking along the same lines.

The way you wrote it, it seemed you were saying completely disregard it.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

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Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

Wear the badge with honour

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I'd like to but to be honest I "hated" being in goals.

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Originally Posted by plague

Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?

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BK is still a shit keeper and leading :sup:

What a **** thread, can't be bothered reading back as I full know what the context will be.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

Then just say 4 goals in bugger all appearances is damning, not that 4 when compared to birraz is damning.

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Realised I miss this.

I think the Biraz comparison was worth noting. It highlights that we seemingly weren't as prone to conceding these kind of freekicks when we played Biraz, who played more game time. Whether that comes down to the defence organisation by Biraz, whether it be that he saved the other 3 that BK didn't, whether it was luck, or I'm sure a few more factors can be considered here. But I think it was worth noting that we seemingly have a higher percentage of these incidents happening with one keeper as opposed to the other, and perhaps that is something to look at fixing for the future.

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

What a **** thread, can't be bothered reading back as I full know what the context will be.

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Read back 2 pages, what a load of dribble!

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Originally Posted by pv4

Realised I miss this.

I think the Biraz comparison was worth noting. It highlights that we seemingly weren't as prone to conceding these kind of freekicks when we played Biraz, who played more game time. Whether that comes down to the defence organisation by Biraz, whether it be that he saved the other 3 that BK didn't, whether it was luck, or I'm sure a few more factors can be considered here. But I think it was worth noting that we seemingly have a higher percentage of these incidents happening with one keeper as opposed to the other, and perhaps that is something to look at fixing for the future.

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If only things were that simple.
All that data tells us is what happened, not why.

It's gives no ability to predict future outcomes.

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

If only things were that simple.
All that data tells us is what happened, not why.

It's gives no ability to predict future outcomes.

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You and others were wanting BK to come in for Biraz earlier in the year due to form, and stated something along the lines of form being the only thing you had as evidence to judge the player from. What has happened won't be able to predict the future but it's a good indication of where we've gone wrong in the past.

Hopefully the goalkeepers are being worked on their handling of free kick situations, hopefully the squad in general is being worked on not giving away fouls in dangerous positions, and hopefully we don't concede free kicks and goals like that in the future.

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Originally Posted by pv4

You and others were wanting BK to come in for Biraz earlier in the year due to form, and stated something along the lines of form being the only thing you had as evidence to judge the player from. What has happened won't be able to predict the future but it's a good indication of where we've gone wrong in the past.

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Yes, but that assessment of form was not based on simply the outcome of an event, but an overall assessment of performance.

It may well indicate that something went wrong or right, but it doesn't tell you what that thing was.

Again, if the thread was a discussion on bk v birraz, but even the member has stated these debates are now redundant, and this thread wasn't about birraz.

Might start dragging up stats about stu musalik when discussing carvellas roundabouts and pass completion rates.

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

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stop exaggerating.

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

This has gone round in circles more times than Zenon Caravella

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Get your own material :tongue:

If BK moves the wall slightly more to his left or takes the person on the right out of the wall it gives him a better sight and he can move a step further to his left. All this things give him a better chance of saving the goal. It was a good free kick but not a great free kick. Definitely savable. He got no where near the ball and never looked like saving it at any stage. He is an average keeper who is a number 2 keeper and a handy back up keeper. Shouldnt be first choice keeper every week but hey thats how bad we are these days ! No point always blaming the keeper when the opposition scores but when the keeper is facing a free kick he is responsible for placing the wall and his own positioning. Maybe he needs a player on each goalpost on the line to assist him if he cant get his positioning right ?

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Originally Posted by R Ramjet

If BK moves the wall slightly more to his left or takes the person on the right out of the wall it gives him a better sight and he can move a step further to his left. All this things give him a better chance of saving the goal. It was a good free kick but not a great free kick. Definitely savable. He got no where near the ball and never looked like saving it at any stage. He is an average keeper who is a number 2 keeper and a handy back up keeper. Shouldnt be first choice keeper every week but hey thats how bad we are these days ! No point always blaming the keeper when the opposition scores but when the keeper is facing a free kick he is responsible for placing the wall and his own positioning. Maybe he needs a player on each goalpost on the line to assist him if he cant get his positioning right ?

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He may as well **** the wall stand in the centre of the goal and tell the Nix bloke have a go. I reckon he would have a better hope of keeping it out doing it this way.

It is almost like as soon as that wall goes up he has less chance of keeping it out.

just need another brick in the wall

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

just another clean sheet for bk

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

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Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Thank **** those 2 Free Kicks we gave away in the second half didn't go in.
Foz would have went into meltdown

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Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

the stupidity of the midfield is the problem, not BK's organising of the back 4

pretty much all of the free kicks in dangerous areas i could remember yesterday were given away by caravella, welsh & co

this is probably a direct result of the stubbins kick everyone policy

Regan gave away the foul for the Nix game.

you're stupid too

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Originally Posted by GazFish35

Safe to assume that's if it's his fault when they go in, he must be responsible for these two not.
Well in bk.



Sharp save from Montgomery on 32'

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I will blame the Gypos for not hitting the target. That last one even though it missed he was awfully stuck in the one spot

They didn't hit the target because the wall was positioned perfectly, forcing the striker to attempt something beyond his skill set.

:lulzturtle:

Like when zadkovich shoots and all defender clear a path to goal for him to miss.