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The longer the rot is allowed to set in and make home, the harder it is to shake.
Years of sub-par performances and no light at the end of the tunnel.
As i write this, FS just showed Stubbins interview snippets. Definitely made some comments alluding to problems with management/"people higher up".
Good post.Quote:
Originally Posted by redwah
As for the financial clout.
We are in a salary capped league. Our financial clout really means **** all.
Being well organised disciplined having a great team spirit /club culture and hard work will take you a long way in this comp. Hell one team we won't mention their name are reasonably successful in recent years having this despite constantly losing good players and hemorrhaging money.
We on the other hand have no plan and NFI on much at all.
If you honestly believe that financial clout means nothing then you are more deluded than I thought. Have a look at some of the squads assembled and the players some teams seem to have no problem attracting. We struggle to compete with other clubs despite this being a fantastic place to live.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
Yeah I agree with the "club culture" bit and things like sacking your manager at the season launch isnt a great look. Rehiring a manager that shafted the club for another job does not instill confidence in the managments decision making process either. Your said club seems built on continuity and trust.....not much of that when the jets are involved.
MFKS is right on this one. Money doesn't mean much in this league. The salary cap means that any team can be competitive. Those other bags of d#$%s seem to do well every year with measly crowds, no funds and no one from the FFA giving a crap about them.Quote:
Originally Posted by redwah
Also, since when is Newcastle as good a place to live as Melbourne, Brisbane or even Sydney if you're a professional footballer? We know it's great because we live here and know it's secrets but try convincing a Footballer moving to the EPL to go live in Cardiff or London and see where they would prefer to live?
I disagree about the money. It does have an impact in this league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
While accepting you have a salary cap, if you pay marquees who fall outside of the cap, you therefore have a greater average spend for the remaining players that fall under the cap.
In addition, you can spend more on attracting a better quality coach and staff, in addition to better paid administrators behind the scenes that can set the club up for success. You can also afford better facilities for your training.
You can have the anomalies like the Gypos who out perform their financial clout, but look at the clubs like Victory and Sydney - well backed, can attract better coaches, better facilities and attracting the bigger names. Yes, they have the lure and appeal of a capital city, but the money doesn't hurt either.
What financial Clout gets you:
- Ability to pay for higher quality players (Marquee, Junior Marquee, Australian Marquee, +3 U21 players, Max amount of cap)
- Ability to higher a decent ****ing manager
- Ability to have a full staff of coaches, physios, axillary training staff.
- Shorter recovery periods for injuries due to paying for decent treatment
- Ability to decrease the quality of opposition teams by taking best talent.
Your 5th point is a great one. Look at what Victory have done to deny the Roar a hatful of goals this season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmac79
What help would more money do with our board making decisions on who to hire? We had money last season and how much money did we spend on youth development or some new facilities for the physio's and doctors? More money wouldn't help us at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmac79
We need better players/staff to succeed but we need to be successful in order to attract them here! So, we need to do more with what we've got before we start using money as an excuse. The fact that Victory and Sydney have more money than us isn't the reason they are better than us this year is it? How much good has Sydney's money been for the last couple of seasons? They had a shitty board and all the money they spent didn't win them any trophies... They sorted out their board, hired a good coach with a clear view of what they wanted to do and now they are up the top of the table.
Sydney have more coin than most but are doing better without the most expensive player in A-League history and they signed a coach who lives in a caravan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmac79
We don't need money, we need a ****ing clue.
Arnie is on a mil a season. And his coaching staff he brought along are on a dime too.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Believe me, Sydney needed money to get the setup they now have.
Sydney have had the same board for the last few years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Still lives in a caravan and has never won anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by pv4
Please....money nothing to do with it....you are kidding. Salary cap or not money is everything in professional sport. If you can pay for better quality anything it shows. I'm pretty sure if we could afford a Barcelona youth coach like adelaide we get him over some expat pom who hasnt had much experience in higher levels or systems. We wouldn't have to hire a ground from the uni to train on, we'd have our own training facility. We wouldn't have to worry about crusty demons or monster trucks or Rugby league teams damaging the pitch. Money talks....we have none so we struggle to compete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
And i personally wouldnt go to either....its the red half of Liverpool or nothing.
You might be surprised to learn that there are lower league games on at Anfield all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by redwah
To those who say money is imperative in this League
Fact is for the last 3-4 years under Tinkler we have had the luxury of a Marquee and have been able to be reasonably well funded and in a lot of regards have been in a better position to prosper than other clubs in big cities. Sure this year costs are being cut but for the last 3-4 years we have had the opportunity to make every post a winner and sign whoever we liked
We have not got anywhere
All the money and opportunity Tinkler provided to us has been frittered away by the incompetence of those in charge of making the decisions.
As we have the lacking components of good admin> well organised >well coached> good culture > never say die attitude etc missing we have achieved what we have.
Mate if you think Tinkler put in bucket fulls you are kidding yourself....nearly as much as you do about Middleby having any real say in how said cash is spent.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
The fact that heskey came here was good though if we could afford better scouting we could get a better marquee, if we could afford more wages we could have a better international marquee and a better Australian marquee thus improving the squad and hopefully the results leading to an improved reputation and better possibilities to sign better quality players....it all flows from money.
There was nothing wrong with the level of funds provided for a Marquee. Who else has been outspending us other than Smurfs the last few years for Marquee?? No one. The other clubs have just got better value from theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by redwah
Problem lies with the coaching scouting and management positions and the poor decisions they make. The decision to sign Heskey and then play the way GVE had us and not to Heskeys strength defies logic.
The decision to sign Culina was not a bad one as such. If we were getting the bloke who had been a Socceroos and Eredivse stalwart and not the injury riddled bloke we got. Unfortunately the brains of our club did not check that a bloke who was recently injured was fit to play before signing him.
Money is not required to be successful in this league at all. Brisbane have won 3 of the last 4 comps and aren't wealthy
You keep saying Middleby is the issue and you want a competent CEO, could it be that Tinks didn't pay what was needed there.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
I'd argue that despite the onfield spending (marquee, etc), spending behind the scenes has been minimal. This is where we fall behind the big clubs. We always seem to be an injury prone club, are our strength and conditioning coaching staff any good, or were they the cheap option.
Was Stubbins the best we could get on the budget given?
What about the staff in the office. Do we have all the roles that we need in the club to connect with the community, to attract sponsors/investors and to run the club?
Could all those off field issues you keep raising be directly related to the amount of money Tinks/HSG wanted to spend to fill the positions?
Club funding and success runs much deeper than the onfield spending.
anyone who doesn't think money has a lot to do with success in professional sport is pretty dumb tbh
not that mfks actually believes what he's typing, it's just the unpopular opinion he's chosen to champion for the day
I can see Members point in some regards.
In a salary capped league the disparity between best and worst shouldnt be what we are witnessing at the moment. If it was just money then wouldnt Sydney or Melbourne have won it every year? For a comp having had 4 different clubs (Syd/Melb/Bris/Jets) win the grand final from 9 years says that anyone is in with a shot. Id say out of that only the Syd and Melb titles and maybe Brisbane year 3 would have been from clubs in the top 3 spending wise yeah*?
Brisbanes first title was from a coach who didnt have the best rep at the time and he had not long before rissoled his "big name" players.
Also you could point to the Wanderers winning the ACL with probably one of the lowest budget of any of the knockout round teams to show that theres more to it (like bribing the refs maybe?).
However you look at it we are rubbish and getting rubbisher. To blame most if not all of it on money is a cop out IMO.
Now if you'll all excuse me I'm going to wash the stink of agreeing with the Member off me.
Cheers,
Plague.
* i dont have operating budgets in front of me but please provide figures if anyone has them id be interested.
Waking up from a bad bad nightmare and finding out that Gypos actually never won it.......oh my god I'm back baby. See u all in Parra......Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Well said Plague and you saved me a lot of the hassle and I apoligise for the shower you had to have. Hope the water wasn't cold!!! :roflz:.
Roarcelona GF win no 1 achieved what they did Miracle of Brisbane undefeated streak etc done so under FFA Control. Don't recall them spending big to sign anyone. Matter of fact they signed a pile of no names from the state leagues and recruited wisely from overseas
Wankers the last 2 seasons have made the GF 2 years running spending nothing other than a small amount extra on Shinji to go with their second hand cast off squad whilst under FFA Control.
Gypos have had teams consistently at the top of the ladder for the last 4-5 years and those ****s are ****ing skint
Adelaide are not loaded and have little extra money yet have a good side coming along who should go close to winning it and are well coached despite not spending up big
Perth have not spent big yet recruited wisely and have a good balance and look at how well they are placed with a coach who most people think is clueless
Heart on the other hand have spent up big in the off season and got what to show for it?? Little
Victree have constantly spent big yet haven't made a GF in 5 years and have rarely been close at seasons end
Smurfs have spent even more and haven't been a serious threat for 5 years also and have spent most of that time scraping into the 6 at our expense. Even with 2 million a season on a Marquee the best they could do was 5th
Make no mistake about it money and having plenty can be useful in this league. It is definitely not the be all and end all and you can achieve great things in spite of it.
Most of our problems at the Jets can actually be fixed without money and anyone thinking otherwise is in more denial than the club admin.
So you are saying, without spending any money we can get the backroom staff that you think the club needs?
I think you are wrong, if you want the best in the club admin, staff and coaching it costs money.
I agree that on the pitch its pretty even across the teams and you don't have to spend big there to be successful, but you can't be cheap behind the scenes and I think this is where some of the bigger budgeted clubs excel.
yeah mate. i fact checked it and everything (using nf.net) and its def 4 from 9.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
It's all about money, and where and how you spend it.
Good people cost money.
Lots of good people cost lots of money.
And that in no way is a dig at anyone who has ever worked for the club.
We've always been understaffed and overworked... Or distracted by also running the knights.
In a comp equalled out by limiting spending on playing staff we've struggled spending money elsewhere in the club set up in areas where the advantage truly lies. We've never had an own owner willing to spend the money in back room staff, coaching, marketing and community engagement.
I dont know anyone saying that we dont need money, i think people are saying that we arent spending our money as wisely as others.Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
Id dare say Gombau (is that how you spell it?) is getting paid less than Gypo Arnie, prob less than Heart bloke too. Whos the better coach?
Adelaide CEO went OS in search of a coach and came back with a star.
Jets CEO went OS to find a buyer for the club, and all we got was a ****ing selfie with Sir Alex.
Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
This. On the shortlist for post of the year
No it will cost money that is an obvious statement. Unfortunately we won't find anyone to do it for free!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydog
I think though we can achieve better quality of backroom staff than we currently have at this time or have had in recent times by spending no more than we currently do anyway for the results we get
I think we can also achieve a quality of backroom staff on the money currently being spent by Tinks/FFA or whoever is paying the bills to provide us with a backroom staff and ALSO a playing staff who are in the top 4 and a serious contender for the title
Some good points Mr FishQuote:
Originally Posted by GazFish35
This one is particularly fitting
We have spent the last few years paying shit loads paying out inept coaches. The value for money we got out of them was piss poorQuote:
money, and where and how you spend it.
We have spent the last few years paying the salary cap and Heskeytimes and Culina's wages on our marquees and playing squad. The value we have got out of them was piss poor.
Compared to everyone else spending the same we are getting the worse bang in the HAL for our (Tinks) bucks.
We need to start getting these decisions on signing not signing players/coaches/admin etc RIGHT and not failing at the rate we do
Problem lies with the people making decisions in our club and that is the CEO Palmer Baartz Bridges Coaching department etc CONSTANTLY making the wrong ones or very poor ones with who they recruit on the park as well as off the park.
Actually a good point about spending money is how we've dealt with Michael Bridges.
Between playing contracts, assistant coaching roles and 'embassador' roles how many of you think that the money we spent on could have been better spent elsewhere?
Yet someone in charge of our club continually spent money on this bloke versus using these scant resources for another more in need area.
Go on lads, defend your boy.
^ spot on Plague.....but also because of clowns currently running our club I got the feeling that a lot of players / managers are not too keen to settle in downtown Newy for a couple of years: Paartalu, Burns, Arnie.....etcQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
If our club magically found $5 million tomorrow do you think we would win the league this year or next year?
If the FFA took us over and replaced the board members do think we would have as much, more or less chance of winning the league this year or next?
We've often taken the cheapest option even when we have spent money.
Money spent right is the key.
Look at soufs. It took big rusty a decade to turn than tinpot club into a winning team.
Salary capped league, but clearly his cash spent well helped change things.
No guarantee of more but definitely not less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
It doesn't have to be the most expensive people - it has to be the RIGHT people.
You know, like all the people the FFA stole from other clubs to set up wanderers as a success.
Forgetting the weekend, here is some relatively posative news to start the day. Take it how u please
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/27...aining/?cs=306
Really hope caravella is dropped. I wonder if pepper will come back into considerationQuote:
Originally Posted by matty
I doubt circle work will be dropped if Kanta plays CBQuote:
Originally Posted by Tommyjet
Looks like a file photo - unless Steele has been recalled?
To find the cloud behind the silver lining...Quote:
Originally Posted by matty
Given how shit our first eleven is, how honking is our second string if they make our first choice look good?