Miller - He's Out (pg 25)

Hoffman would be a better option up front than Kitto or Pav.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Hoffman would be a better option up front than Kitto or Pav.

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Mate, I reckon I'm a better option up front. I might be slow and old but at least I can hit the target.

Seriously, trying 442 with someone in Trif's pocket has gotta be worth a try cause what we're doing now isn't working. I'd rather not even use Trif but we have no other option (unless Lord Griff recovers and gets signed) but the question is who to put next to him. Kanta can't play everywhere!

I'd rather try a bit of speed up front to get behind the Nix and force them back. I'm thinking Lundy and Crowley.

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Originally Posted by Hunter403

Mate, I reckon I'm a better option up front. I might be slow and old but at least I can hit the target.

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Seen you miss a few too.....

We're ****ed.

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Originally Posted by idontwannaplaywithhowey

I think the crowd numbers need to remain strong as otherwise it may be deemed that the club isn't worth moving forward with.
I really suspect that with the troubles at both the Jets and Mariners the FFA would seriously consider a merger that would allow another Sydney team into the mix. (I have no evidential basis for this view, just a feeling).

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How many times do the public have to "prove" their support up here? Over the last 35 years we have just kept coming back time after time.
We want a team and deserve a team...we should be one of the biggest clubs in the country.
It isnt the fans fault.

building for the future is not possible in the aleague, every season teams are gutted by the salary cap in some way or another

absolutely no excuse for how we are playing

we're a professional football team who can't score a goal or string 5 passes together, how can you not point fingers at the coaching staff?

don't even think about bringing the squad up because the quality is fine. we have dave carney and two guys who have played at a good level in europe up front and they are not even in the game each week.

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Originally Posted by parksey

building for the future is not possible in the aleague, every season teams are gutted by the salary cap in some way or another

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This is what pisses me off about the A-League. You constantly hear teams saying this, yet every season teams change that much you cannot build for the future. "Building for the future" basically means we will play young players because they are cheap and when they do well for us we will sell them for a profit.
Look at current squads compared to 5 years ago, how many teams have young guys who they "built up" still going around for them?
The only ones that do are average a-league standard players (hardly the future of the league) or guys who may have had bad luck with injuries.

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Originally Posted by parksey

building for the future is not possible in the aleague, every season teams are gutted by the salary cap in some way or another

absolutely no excuse for how we are playing

we're a professional football team who can't score a goal or string 5 passes together, how can you not point fingers at the coaching staff?

don't even think about bringing the squad up because the quality is fine. we have dave carney and two guys who have played at a good level in europe up front and they are not even in the game each week.

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I agree with your first half but not the last paragraph. Carney, whilst skillful is the second laziest player in the comp (Trifunovic being lazier and never played at a decent European level) and Leonardo has played at a decent level in Europe but is never on the park.

Boogaard and Birraz are the only two players we have that could realistically go to most clubs and get a run, the rest of them are shithouse

There aren't seriously suckers out there falling for this 'rebuilding' crap are there?

You realise we rebuilt before, as have many many other teams all to no avail.

Here's an exercise, go look at the kids we thought we were 'developing' and tell me which of them are playing their best football for us?

Other than Biraz I can't think of many. All the others were cherry picked by other clubs and have gone on to better things. How the hell this clown thinks we can win a comp by doing that astounds me.

While you're at it look at the best young players across the whole league and see if they are still playing their best football at the club that developed them. The best ones have all moved on.

Yet Miller thinks he's going to bring in the class of '92 and they'll be the three best friends that anyone could have and they'll never ever ever ever ever leave each other.

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Originally Posted by plague

Yet Miller thinks he's going to bring in the class of '92 and they'll be the three best friends that anyone could have and they'll never ever ever ever ever leave each other.

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That made me chuckle. Thanks Plague - I needed it.

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Originally Posted by plague

There aren't seriously suckers out there falling for this 'rebuilding' crap are there?

You realise we rebuilt before, as have many many other teams all to no avail.

Here's an exercise, go look at the kids we thought we were 'developing' and tell me which of them are playing their best football for us?

Other than Biraz I can't think of many. All the others were cherry picked by other clubs and have gone on to better things. How the hell this clown thinks we can win a comp by doing that astounds me.

While you're at it look at the best young players across the whole league and see if they are still playing their best football at the club that developed them. The best ones have all moved on.

Yet Miller thinks he's going to bring in the class of '92 and they'll be the three best friends that anyone could have and they'll never ever ever ever ever leave each other.

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Agree, the only other one who played their best football for us is Taggart, and possibly Holland once upon a time.

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Originally Posted by plague

There aren't seriously suckers out there falling for this 'rebuilding' crap are there?

You realise we rebuilt before, as have many many other teams all to no avail.

Here's an exercise, go look at the kids we thought we were 'developing' and tell me which of them are playing their best football for us?

Other than Biraz I can't think of many. All the others were cherry picked by other clubs and have gone on to better things. How the hell this clown thinks we can win a comp by doing that astounds me.

While you're at it look at the best young players across the whole league and see if they are still playing their best football at the club that developed them. The best ones have all moved on.

Yet Miller thinks he's going to bring in the class of '92 and they'll be the three best friends that anyone could have and they'll never ever ever ever ever leave each other.

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Thing is if you are gonna base your squad around kids for the future you need to have good solid players around them.

Even under GVE when we signed Taggz Goodwin Birraz Chapman Beard etc we never had the rest of the quality around the side to allow them to develop at their own pace.

SAF at least had Cantona Bruce Pallister Schmeichal Hughes McClair Ince Keane Irwin etc whilst Beckham Butt Scholes Neville etc came through and of course Giggs had been there for a few years before the rest broke through

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Originally Posted by The Camel

Agree, the only other one who played their best football for us is Taggart, and possibly Holland once upon a time.

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Taggart is a good one.

Holland played with Griff.
Griff makes everyone look good.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Thing is if you are gonna base your squad around kids for the future you need to have good solid players around them.

Even under GVE when we signed Taggz Goodwin Birraz Chapman Beard etc we never had the rest of the quality around the side to allow them to develop at their own pace.

SAF at least had Cantona Bruce Pallister Schmeichal Hughes McClair Ince Keane Irwin etc whilst Beckham Butt Scholes Neville etc came through and of course Giggs had been there for a few years before the rest broke through

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Precisely. Our recruitment has focused primarily on young kids and players at the peak of their career. We rarely recruit players about to enter, or in, their prime. The last one we signed is could be argued is Poljak (I was excited about him at the time for this reason). Other than that...Zadkovich? Ryan Griffiths?

I guess, thinking further, we have started that approach with our defensive line too.

Others should have been - like Neumann, Celeski, Burns (if only we'd paid up).

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Originally Posted by plague

Taggart is a good one.

Holland played with Griff.
Griff makes everyone look good.

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I reckon Zads played his best football for us.

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

I reckon Zads played his best football for us.

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I would agree with that..

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Thing is if you are gonna base your squad around kids for the future you need to have good solid players around them.

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That is spot on, and also if you are getting young kids, you would hope that they have career aspirations. In that case, they will only stay until they can move onto bigger and better things.

If your squad is predominantly young kids of the future, you for the most part won't have a long term stable club.

The older quality is needed to give some stability.

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Originally Posted by sammydog

That is spot on, and also if you are getting young kids, you would hope that they have career aspirations. In that case, they will only stay until they can move onto bigger and better things.

If your squad is predominantly young kids of the future, you for the most part won't have a long term stable club.

The older quality is needed to give some stability.

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You can have some stability though. You just can't afford the mass exodus of your kids all at once.

You just need to keep your core group of senior players though and add to it from time to time with some fresh blood

I think it is doable at this level with competent coaching.



Problem is we don't see enough competent coaching at our club.

How blokes like Beard and Taggz made it out of here defies belief
Birraz who is soon to head off for greener pastures is also another modern mystery.

It ain't like you could say they have been well coached in their time at the club

It is down to pot luck and their own talent that got them opportunity outside of Australia because it ain't down to our club providing a quality environment for them to flourish and develop

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Originally Posted by MFKS

You can have some stability though. You just can't afford the mass exodus of your kids all at once.

You just need to keep your core group of senior players though and add to it from time to time with some fresh blood

I think it is doable at this level with competent coaching.



Problem is we don't see enough competent coaching at our club.

How blokes like Beard and Taggz made it out of here defies belief
Birraz who is soon to head off for greener pastures is also another modern mystery.

It ain't like you could say they have been well coached in their time at the club

It is down to pot luck and their own talent that got them opportunity outside of Australia because it ain't down to our club providing a quality environment for them to flourish and develop

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Considering the list of Footballers that have done well since coming through our club lately maybe GVE was just a massive wanker and not useless at coaching after all.. HAHA... That said, maybe they know how to train young players up to a good level but don't know how to convert it to on-field quality.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Considering the list of Footballers that have done well since coming through our club lately maybe GVE was just a massive wanker and not useless at coaching after all.. HAHA... That said, maybe they know how to train young players up to a good level but don't know how to convert it to on-field quality.

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Sarcasm ? Because I cannot think of any players the Jets developed / produced that went on to the next level.

Taggz - club gave him game time - not much else.
beard - See above.
Chapman - see above
Hoole - Club probably did more damage to the kid than help his progress.
Goodwin: See Above
Hoffman: See Above

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Taggz - club gave him game time - not much else.
beard - See above.
Chapman - see above
Hoole - Club probably did more damage to the kid than help his progress.
Goodwin: See Above
Hoffman: See Above

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Another major factor here is how many of these kids that we apparently developed actually gave the club a 'return' on their leaving?

Did we get any money for any of them?
Most of them couldnt wait to get out of here.
We certainly didn't win anything with them.

So whether GVE lucked out with talent or not the end result is that through piss poor management at all levels within the club the entire experiment was nothing but a massive failure.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Sarcasm ? Because I cannot think of any players the Jets developed / produced that went on to the next level.

Taggz - club gave him game time - not much else.
beard - See above.
Chapman - see above
Hoole - Club probably did more damage to the kid than help his progress.
Goodwin: See Above
Hoffman: See Above

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I'd argue we developed Song.

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

I'd argue we developed Song.

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He was representing his country at Olympic level before he played for the Jets and pretty much slotted straight into the Jets lineup upon arrival.

I would very confidently say that he was developed long before he became a Jet.

All the Jets offered him was game time which he might have struggled to get at a big Korean club given their stock of similar type players.

He may have matured a little while a Jet but I don't think he developed technically or tactically due to any influence for GVE - unless you count learning how to deal with a dickhead coach.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

He was representing his country at Olympic level before he played for the Jets and pretty much slotted straight into the Jets lineup upon arrival.

I would very confidently say that he was developed long before he became a Jet.

All the Jets offered him was game time which he might have struggled to get at a big Korean club given their stock of similar type players.

He may have matured a little while a Jet but I don't think he developed technically or tactically due to any influence for GVE - unless you count learning how to deal with a dickhead coach.

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I can accept your point. He came to the league to learn how to handle a more physical league which is something that he developed. I don't recall him being the finished article when he arrived but he certainly had something about him.

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

I can accept your point. He came to the league to learn how to handle a more physical league which is something that he developed. I don't recall him being the finished article when he arrived but he certainly had something about him.

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Agree - I'd trade Leonardo and Poljak for Song without any hesitation.

Would love to see him back here. He signed a 3 year contract in 2012 in Korea. Not sure of his current status.

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Originally Posted by Jeterpool

I'd argue we developed Song.

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Very well in JP. I'll give the Jets that one. He was better when he left, he helped us win and we maybe even got some money for him (?).

Ok that's one player in 10 years. I can totally see why Miller likes this strategy.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Sarcasm ? Because I cannot think of any players the Jets developed / produced that went on to the next level.

Taggz - club gave him game time - not much else.
beard - See above.
Chapman - see above
Hoole - Club probably did more damage to the kid than help his progress.
Goodwin: See Above
Hoffman: See Above

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On Taggz, his lucky break was Heskey getting injured....Taggz owes whoever took out big Emile in that pre-season game that led to him being out for half the season, allowing Taggz to cement his place in the starting line-up and as they say the rest is history. He got a chance and took the opportunity with both hands which is something you got to do as a young player, Jackson and Cowburn have both done and proven they are up to this level but the other just haven't stepped up to the plate.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Considering the list of Footballers that have done well since coming through our club lately maybe GVE was just a massive wanker and not useless at coaching after all.. HAHA... That said, maybe they know how to train young players up to a good level but don't know how to convert it to on-field quality.

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Having watched a bit of the EJ program you could make quite a case that they have NFI what they are doing really.

Someone has their nice new shiny KNVB approved FFA certificate that looks ****ing great but they have no ****ing idea in actually turning the kids potential into quality players.

All they can harp on with is their KNVB Mantra which actually achieves ****ing nothing.

95% of the kids in the EJ program have NFI about playing without the ball. They just run into general areas on the field.

No anticipating no tackling skills no isolating players with the ball no ****ing nothing.

The kids ain't being taught how to win a football game at all

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Originally Posted by plague

Very well in JP. I'll give the Jets that one. He was better when he left, he helped us win and we maybe even got some money for him (?).

Ok that's one player in 10 years. I can totally see why Miller likes this strategy.

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It makes perfect sense and provided nobody moves onto other clubs or deteriorates as they get older we should be able to develop a quality team in around 200 years.

#buildingforthefuture

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

It makes perfect sense and provided nobody moves onto other clubs or deteriorates as they get older we should be able to develop a quality team in around 200 years.

#buildingforthefuture

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I wish I had your kind of optimism.. :gent:

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Originally Posted by MFKS

It is down to pot luck and their own talent that got them opportunity outside of Australia because it ain't down to our club providing a quality environment for them to flourish and develop

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I'd say the Jets are doing everything in their power to help Birraz flourish at the moment. What better way then to let the other side run attacking drills for 90 minutes? Although I'd rather he stagnate in goals and not see the ****ing ball every 30 seconds...

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Originally Posted by halo se7en

I'd say the Jets are doing everything in their power to help Birraz flourish at the moment. What better way then to let the other side run attacking drills for 90 minutes? Although I'd rather he stagnate in goals and not see the ****ing ball every 30 seconds...

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Maybe the FFA understand that Birraz is their biggest asset at the moment so they've told Miller to make him look amazing so they can bank the transfer fee. We already sold Leaky G and replaced him with 2 much cheaper players and might sell Cabbage as well. Make some money off the jets to spend of Marketing in Melbourne for the Geelong team.

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Originally Posted by The Camel

I agree with your first half but not the last paragraph. Carney, whilst skillful is the second laziest player in the comp (Trifunovic being lazier and never played at a decent European level) and Leonardo has played at a decent level in Europe but is never on the park.

Boogaard and Birraz are the only two players we have that could realistically go to most clubs and get a run, the rest of them are shithouse

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i meant triffo and enver, i barely even consider leonardo a jets player

yes triffo is lazy but that doesn't mean we couldn't be untilising him more effectively, instead of leaving him isolated 4-on-1 every game.

carney is the laziest player in the league, but get him in and around the box and he'll make stuff happen

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

Sarcasm ? Because I cannot think of any players the Jets developed / produced that went on to the next level.

Taggz - club gave him game time - not much else.
beard - See above.
Chapman - see above
Hoole - Club probably did more damage to the kid than help his progress.
Goodwin: See Above
Hoffman: See Above

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Taggz - Did ok to go OS. Was never good enough to handle it. Will be good in HAL again
beard - Overrated, no loss, at least having a go OS, will come back tail between legs
Chapman - Just up to level, no loss
Hoole - Judas, FO
Goodwin: Fk him too
Hoffman: LOL

New to the forum and ive seen alot of interesting comments regarding Miller. Unfortunately ive lost faith in Miller and JPM and ill tell you why. We have a Head Coach who was a fitness and assistant coach for almost a decade (not sure exactly how long he was at fullham) in England and an assistant coach who last season coached a team to a grand final win yet these two coaches can't come up with any better tactic than sit deep, don't commit man forward and hope for the best.

This head coach also plays people out of position, refuses to give youth a chance over certain first team players who have been beyond rubbish this season Watson Trifunovic Alidovic etc yet still play every game and ALMOST always makes defensive substitutions when we are trying to win a game or the game is in the balance and we need a spark. Also this so called defensive stability he has brought to the team is rubbish. We don't apply pressure to the ball carrier concede shots galore and rely on Birraz and BK to fingers crossed save everything or lets face it we lose 4-0 every week. Also if were going to play so defensive we need all 11 players working their buts off to defend and contain the opposition so by playing Carney and Trifunovic who are some of the laziest players I have ever seen were always 2 man down we when lose the ball.

My last point will be that Miller singed Trifunovic and Leonardo so as if he didn't know leonardo had a chronic knee problem and Trifunovic wasn't a lone striker type of player. Ill finish with we play in a league where there is no relegation so there is nothing to lose by setting up the team to have a dig push forward and maybe nick a goal or even TRY DIFFERENT TACTICS FOR ONCE.

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

New to the forum and ive seen alot of interesting comments regarding Miller. Unfortunately ive lost faith in Miller and JPM and ill tell you why. We have a Head Coach who was a fitness and assistant coach for almost a decade (not sure exactly how long he was at fullham) in England and an assistant coach who last season coached a team to a grand final win yet these two coaches can't come up with any better tactic than sit deep, don't commit man forward and hope for the best.

This head coach also plays people out of position, refuses to give youth a chance over certain first team players who have been beyond rubbish this season Watson Trifunovic Alidovic etc yet still play every game and ALMOST always makes defensive substitutions when we are trying to win a game or the game is in the balance and we need a spark. Also this so called defensive stability he has brought to the team is rubbish. We don't apply pressure to the ball carrier concede shots galore and rely on Birraz and BK to fingers crossed save everything or lets face it we lose 4-0 every week. Also if were going to play so defensive we need all 11 players working their buts off to defend and contain the opposition so by playing Carney and Trifunovic who are some of the laziest players I have ever seen were always 2 man down we when lose the ball.

My last point will be that Miller singed Trifunovic and Leonardo so as if he didn't know leonardo had a chronic knee problem and Trifunovic wasn't a lone striker type of player. Ill finish with we play in a league where there is no relegation so there is nothing to lose by setting up the team to have a dig push forward and maybe nick a goal or even TRY DIFFERENT TACTICS FOR ONCE.

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Welcome to the circus ... And I can't argue any of your points... In contention for best first post of the year... ��

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

New to the forum and ive seen alot of interesting comments regarding Miller. Unfortunately ive lost faith in Miller and JPM and ill tell you why. We have a Head Coach who was a fitness and assistant coach for almost a decade (not sure exactly how long he was at fullham) in England and an assistant coach who last season coached a team to a grand final win yet these two coaches can't come up with any better tactic than sit deep, don't commit man forward and hope for the best.

This head coach also plays people out of position, refuses to give youth a chance over certain first team players who have been beyond rubbish this season Watson Trifunovic Alidovic etc yet still play every game and ALMOST always makes defensive substitutions when we are trying to win a game or the game is in the balance and we need a spark. Also this so called defensive stability he has brought to the team is rubbish. We don't apply pressure to the ball carrier concede shots galore and rely on Birraz and BK to fingers crossed save everything or lets face it we lose 4-0 every week. Also if were going to play so defensive we need all 11 players working their buts off to defend and contain the opposition so by playing Carney and Trifunovic who are some of the laziest players I have ever seen were always 2 man down we when lose the ball.

My last point will be that Miller singed Trifunovic and Leonardo so as if he didn't know leonardo had a chronic knee problem and Trifunovic wasn't a lone striker type of player. Ill finish with we play in a league where there is no relegation so there is nothing to lose by setting up the team to have a dig push forward and maybe nick a goal or even TRY DIFFERENT TACTICS FOR ONCE.

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Nail? Meet head.

Good to see the bloke running the Captain Obvious multi finally reveal himself.

Welcome aboard champion.

Great first post