2017/18 Squad Thread

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Whether it is an advantage or not isn't the issue

They are getting better performance to $$ deals from their players than we are

Take blokes like Boogaard. Now how far off value to $$ is he compared to say O'Neill and Rhyan Grant ??

Those two probably on **** all over minimum wage and they deliver every week

High time we looked at our own backyard and getting wages in order with performance

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If what you say is 100% true, why would anyone go to a shit club like Newcastle when they could win stuff with Sydney? There is a reason shit clubs pay more for players.

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Originally Posted by Grimario

If what you say is 100% true, why would anyone go to a shit club like Newcastle when they could win stuff with Sydney? There is a reason shit clubs pay more for players.

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So what? We just accept we are bad and stay in the same old pattern paying overs and losing? Or we take the MFKS route and rectify it to become better. I choose the latter

How??

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Originally Posted by monz6

So what? We just accept we are bad and stay in the same old pattern paying overs and losing? Or we take the MFKS route and rectify it to become better. I choose the latter

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How though? If we have a set budget and we won't send lots of money to get the better players when they can play for the same amount in capital cities, HOW?

And yes, we should get used to losing. That's all the club will ever do in the current A-League model. We and the other have nots are going to play second fiddle to the haves forever. The system built for equality is now all about getting away from equality as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by monz6

So what? We just accept we are bad and stay in the same old pattern paying overs and losing? Or we take the MFKS route and rectify it to become better. I choose the latter

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When the member finally gives his blueprint to fix the club i'll be happy to listen and then agree/disagree. All he has said so far is that our players suck and should be sacked and replaced with better ones. WOW, who would have thought it was that easy?

We know the squad isn't good enough, i feel like 80% of the league isn't good enough for the wages they earn. So in theory your plan is to sack 80% of the squad, sign 5 first teamers on good coin, run out of salary cap space and then forfeit every game because we only have 7 players on our books?

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Originally Posted by Frodo

We know the squad isn't good enough, i feel like 80% of the league isn't good enough for the wages they earn.

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The false football economy, brought to you by PFA, FFA and the Salary Cap.

Throw huge bucks at 6/7 starting quality players. Find some very good quality visa players and pay marquee wages. Get a quality/attractive starting side together and a few OK squad players will follow from other clubs. Fill the rest with youth on absolute minimum wage.

Pray to God we don't get any injuries.

The club should only be worried about signing quality players - if that means breaching the salary cap so be it. Even if we get fined and lose points they won't be able to take away from the fans the feeling of actually being competitive again.
That's if we get breached because I think the last thing Sydney FC would want is an independent review of clubs adherence to the salary cap.
Playing by the rules has gotten us nowhere - about time we treated the rules with the contempt they deserve.

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

The club should only be worried about signing quality players - if that means breaching the salary cap so be it. Even if we get fined and lose points they won't be able to take away from the fans the feeling of actually being competitive again.
That's if we get breached because I think the last thing Sydney FC would want is an independent review of clubs adherence to the salary cap.
Playing by the rules has gotten us nowhere - about time we treated the rules with the contempt they deserve.

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It all comes down to money. If we aren't going to spend, it doesn't matter about rules.

Not trying to piss on anyone's parade, just trying to continue the current narrative of a few in this group, i have a few questions that maybe Dunster/the Member and the rest can answer?

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?

We can only pay players what they produce on the pitch, so unless we win the league we can't pay top dollar for players?

We will have to utilise half our salary cap paying out the guys who are currently contracted so you only have half a salary cap to find this magical team that will fix all our problems?

Mr Lee hasn't offered any cash outside of the cap so far so you can't utilize concessions as well..


So to all those couch coaches, please show me the team you would put forward? I wanna hear about these top quality players who are lining up to play for us and our wonderful club?

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Subject of wages for Smurfs players came up and it was mentioned that one high profile player was on only 88k a season.

Yep only 88k

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Pretty easy to do when you only put 88k on the books.

Put 150k off the books.
Buy him a new car.
Buy him a new house.
Let him root your misso twice a week.

Ez pz.

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Originally Posted by Mark325

Would this line up with cowburn?

Homegrown Players – A Club can spend up to a collective $150,000 on 3 Australian Players aged 23 or younger that have come through the Club’s youth system. Any payments to such Players above the $150,000 allowance are included in the Club’s Salary Cap;

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People get so caught up in allowances that they don't realise they are completely irrelevant to the Jets and every team bar the sides using both marquee players, ie SFC/MV/MC

Let me explain

The salary cap for 16/17 is 2.6mil

The homegrown player allowance is 150k and loyalty allowance is 200k.

So if we utilised all of these that's a player budget of 2.95 mill.

Marquee players no longer have any criteria, infact they are now even called designated players. So forgetting allowances, lets assume we spent the full 2.6mill last season, but decided to designate Boogs (let's say 300k). That 300k is then outside the cap giving a player budget of 2.9mill with a 2nd designated player still to be used.

My point is this. We should not be influenced into re-signing players like kanta due to his eligibility for allowances until we utilise both marquees (designated players). They make no difference to the player budget and we end up signing a sub standard player because of it.

We should sign the best squad we can regardless of the players allowance criteria, and only once we use both designated players and soend the full cap should we care about loyalty payments.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Not trying to piss on anyone's parade, just trying to continue the current narrative of a few in this group, i have a few questions that maybe Dunster/the Member and the rest can answer?

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?

We can only pay players what they produce on the pitch, so unless we win the league we can't pay top dollar for players?

We will have to utilise half our salary cap paying out the guys who are currently contracted so you only have half a salary cap to find this magical team that will fix all our problems?

Mr Lee hasn't offered any cash outside of the cap so far so you can't utilize concessions as well..


So to all those couch coaches, please show me the team you would put forward? I wanna hear about these top quality players who are lining up to play for us and our wonderful club?

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I put together a squad previously. Would involve using all marquee status.

Just routinely paying out our underperforming players every year hides the truth that every team has underperforming players, it's the coaches job to get the best out of them.

Ryan Grant has had a stellar year but 12 months ago no other club wanted him and he stayed unsigned for quite a while before Arnold re-signed him. Most SFC fans wanted him gone in their clean out.

Grant would have performed just as dismally under Jones as the rest of our dross. Now Jones is gone we have a chance for a new manager to assess them.

Strategically paying out a player here or there to free up a squad position, if there is additional funds to spend, is wise.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Not trying to piss on anyone's parade, just trying to continue the current narrative of a few in this group, i have a few questions that maybe Dunster/the Member and the rest can answer?

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?

We can only pay players what they produce on the pitch, so unless we win the league we can't pay top dollar for players?

We will have to utilise half our salary cap paying out the guys who are currently contracted so you only have half a salary cap to find this magical team that will fix all our problems?

Mr Lee hasn't offered any cash outside of the cap so far so you can't utilize concessions as well..


So to all those couch coaches, please show me the team you would put forward? I wanna hear about these top quality players who are lining up to play for us and our wonderful club?

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Blah blah blah loser mentality... stop with your logic and just sign better players at a fraction of the cost. It doesn't matter how you do it, as long as it gets done. It's the easiest thing ever.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Not trying to piss on anyone's parade, just trying to continue the current narrative of a few in this group, i have a few questions that maybe Dunster/the Member and the rest can answer?

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?
We've already got 16 contracted squaddies, so only 7 squad spots left, so yes, lets make those signings count

We can only pay players what they produce on the pitch, so unless we win the league we can't pay top dollar for players?
i think they main argument is that we should stop paying overs for dross...

We will have to utilise half our salary cap paying out the guys who are currently contracted so you only have half a salary cap to find this magical team that will fix all our problems?
This one i'm not sure of, who says contract payouts get included in the cap? i thought that as long as your squad wage total at any point in time was under the cap you were good. As long as the contract terminations are mutually consentual you could swap in /out players as you like.
I honestly think we're stuck with the existing 16 contracted players unless they want out themselves.

Mr Lee hasn't offered any cash outside of the cap so far so you can't utilize concessions as well..
I imagine we're currently organised to simply hit the required min squad size + cap use.

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my 2c.

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?
We've already got 16 contracted squaddies, so only 7 squad spots left, so yes, lets make those signings count


I agree with that sentiment, and yes, that makes sense. But most of the conversation on here is related to players currently signed (not new players) like Cowburn et al that we are saying 'get rid of just buy better players'. Again, I would like that but it ain't that simple (as has been discussed at length on here for about 5 years).


And any contract payouts do go towards the cap. So unless someone can get a deal elsewhere we have to pay them out (generally at a lower rate than their contract, but it still reduces our amount under the cap) or let them remain for their contract and hope they get less shit (or coach them to improve).

Just out of interest I had a look at the Sydney FC squad. This is a team that uses pretty much all allowances, marquees, concessions, has big city appeal, consistent winners, pay outside the cap, arent the Jets etc and this is their squad:

http://http://www.sydneyfc.com/team

There are 6-7 players there (admittedly some of the 3 u/23's required) that are utter poo. I just don't see how it is possible to sign 'all first team players' when a club like Sydney (that just won the league in a canter) are nowhere doing it either.

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Originally Posted by Guerny

my 2c.

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Fairly certain players contracts terminated are included in the CAP for that season. And stop paying overs for players???? How else we gonna convince players to join this shambles of a club? On field performance?? Nope Coaching?? Nope Strength of Roster?? Nope Stable Environment?? New owner and new coaches so Nope. So how else do we sign players

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Not trying to piss on anyone's parade, just trying to continue the current narrative of a few in this group, i have a few questions that maybe Dunster/the Member and the rest can answer?

We can't sign squad players because they aren't worth the money so they are out. So we can only sign first teamers? Correct?

We can only pay players what they produce on the pitch, so unless we win the league we can't pay top dollar for players?

We will have to utilise half our salary cap paying out the guys who are currently contracted so you only have half a salary cap to find this magical team that will fix all our problems?

Mr Lee hasn't offered any cash outside of the cap so far so you can't utilize concessions as well..


So to all those couch coaches, please show me the team you would put forward? I wanna hear about these top quality players who are lining up to play for us and our wonderful club?

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i don't want to pay anyone out.

I actually don't hate on the likes of Cowburn etc as much as some on here.

The bit I agree with the member on is that we are talking about resigning a couple of blokes who can't make the starting squad for the team that ran dead last. At the least the remaining 6/7 squad spots should be targeted at players much better than what we have.

We should also sign a coach better than what we had.

But again, that's on the CEO. He is employed to run the football club. Part of that is having a scouting network. If he doesn't have one, he's derelict in his duty if he ain't out there working on it.

Where to get these players from? I've stated before, some of the best talent we ever had came from 'unknown' 2nd and 3rd tier Asian players.

Are we looking there? I've just been over here and the quality on display is a damn sight better than the SANPL.
(And if the Internet is to be believed) the wages are more than comparable to what we are paying.

I'd just love to see our club, for once, not look in the other clubs rubbish bins for players and coaches.

But until it happens I'm convinced we'll sign yet another Sth American/Scano/Pom who once played for a club that you may have heard of who is past his prime in the hope it all changes.

I like this:

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So to all those couch coaches, please show me the team you would put forward? I wanna hear about these top quality players who are lining up to play for us and our wonderful club?

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Play a bit of Foz FM here and everyone show us the type of squad YOU would put together and how much you would pay them.

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

I like this:



Play a bit of Foz FM here and everyone show us the type of squad YOU would put together and how much you would pay them.

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If you had actual wages vs cap space for the existing 16 on contract we may be able to do it.

But as witnessed here no one has any real clue what our blokes are on.

Ok here's a kid I saw over there.
Kento Hashimoto for Tokyo FC.
Played centre mid, absolutely bossed the game, was listed in 2016 as being on $60k. According to rumours that's approx 1/2 what BK is on.
So yeah give me 2 Hashimotos for the price of an oft injured bloke who can't make our starting team thanks.

Now: even if in the last 18 months his wage has gone up, the next 'Hashimoto' is prob over there in J2 waiting for a run.


Club: go find him.

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Originally Posted by plague

Ok here's a kid I saw over there.
Kento Hashimoto for Tokyo FC.
Played centre mid, absolutely bossed the game, was listed in 2016 as being on $60k. According to rumours that's approx 1/2 what BK is on.
So yeah give me 2 Hashimotos for the price of an oft injured bloke who can't make our starting team thanks.

Now: even if in the last 18 months his wage has gone up, the next 'Hashimoto' is prob over there in J2 waiting for a run.


Club: go find him.

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You might be missing a zero on that wage figure to get him to the Jets. His market value is over a million dollars. To get him here we'd probably need to make him a marquee.
He's been on loan to a J2 team but looks to be about to establish himself in J1 and has 2 goals from 8 appearances so far.

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Originally Posted by Jetmaster

I like this:



Play a bit of Foz FM here and everyone show us the type of squad YOU would put together and how much you would pay them.

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Grim for manager. Not the manager we deserve but the manager we need

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Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET

Grim for manager. Not the manager we deserve but the manager we need

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Nah, wouldn't work. In FM, you can get two marquees on around $800k-1m each and get in good players on loan for nada (which FFA banned IRL). I am simply an exploiter of game mechanics.

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Originally Posted by Grimario

I am simply an exploiter of game mechanics.

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Exactly what we need...:grin:

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Originally Posted by Frodo

When the member finally gives his blueprint to fix the club i'll be happy to listen and then agree/disagree. All he has said so far is that our players suck and should be sacked and replaced with better ones. WOW, who would have thought it was that easy?

We know the squad isn't good enough, i feel like 80% of the league isn't good enough for the wages they earn. So in theory your plan is to sack 80% of the squad, sign 5 first teamers on good coin, run out of salary cap space and then forfeit every game because we only have 7 players on our books?

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I actually don't think it can be achieved in 12 months

I just don't see how even Jesus could sort this shit out in 12 months

To me it just can't happen

What though is the way forward is to actually try and ship 3 blokes in particular out.

Kokko if we can get him a club back in the shitful Scandanavian league he come from then that is a necessity

Brown being he on two years more it may be impossible to dislodge him but we need to be looking at better foreigners than him. Getting him out would be a godsend

Boogaard also needs to go. Paying big money to a slow CD who gives away pens and red cards all the time is a problem we need rid of. Hopefully find some cashed up Asian club to take him

If we can get rid of those 3 it would free up a large chunk of salary cap space. Getting rid of any of the 3 would also help

If this was to happen with the other 7 spots free it would give us 10 spots available for the new man to rebuild

10 spots ain't going to allow the new man a complete rebuild but will give him a better crack at it.

I would also happily let two blokes go who I think we could ship out easily

Ugarkovic and Nabbout would both have some currency for rival teams

I would let them go also to assist the rebuild if the opportunity arose.

Now as for signing blokes

Only be paying market value for HAL level players. I backing our recent signings OCaravan and Georgevski are getting paid better next year than they we may have needed to agree to

Start to out together a squad of 10/15 HAL level players as soon as possible and then keep building each year from then on

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Originally Posted by The Dunster

You might be missing a zero on that wage figure to get him to the Jets. His market value is over a million dollars. To get him here we'd probably need to make him a marquee.
He's been on loan to a J2 team but looks to be about to establish himself in J1 and has 2 goals from 8 appearances so far.

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yeah well there you go.
he was back in J1 the best player on the park against the table toppers.

surely theres plenty more out there like him, especially compared to what were trotting out over here.

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Originally Posted by plague

i don't want to pay anyone out.

I actually don't hate on the likes of Cowburn etc as much as some on here.

The bit I agree with the member on is that we are talking about resigning a couple of blokes who can't make the starting squad for the team that ran dead last. At the least the remaining 6/7 squad spots should be targeted at players much better than what we have.

We should also sign a coach better than what we had.

But again, that's on the CEO. He is employed to run the football club. Part of that is having a scouting network. If he doesn't have one, he's derelict in his duty if he ain't out there working on it.

Where to get these players from? I've stated before, some of the best talent we ever had came from 'unknown' 2nd and 3rd tier Asian players.

Are we looking there? I've just been over here and the quality on display is a damn sight better than the SANPL.
(And if the Internet is to be believed) the wages are more than comparable to what we are paying.

I'd just love to see our club, for once, not look in the other clubs rubbish bins for players and coaches.

But until it happens I'm convinced we'll sign yet another Sth American/Scano/Pom who once played for a club that you may have heard of who is past his prime in the hope it all changes.

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As for where we getting our foreigners from

If we going Asian the talent is there

Some blokes in the Thai Premier League would kill it here and take nowhere near the money we wasting on the likes of Nordstrand Kokko and Brown. Skills wise they would have it over them as well.

Just need to assess their physical and mental aspects well

I know we more or less stuck going Chinese with the Chinese Lightsalesman overlord etc

But it be great to look at Koreans like LeakyG Song etc.


If we going European why do we only dabble in shit Scandanavian blokes or even worse Poms??

Surely some other **** in Spain plays football like Diego Castro??

Why we not trying to find him??

Surely some other bloke in Germany plays football like Thomas Broich??

Why we not looking there??

Surely some bloke in Italy can also play like Cannavaro??
Why we not looking for a defensive leader here instead of letting Boogaard give away pens every couple of weeks??

That's 3 of the strongest nations in world football and we ain't looking to recruit from there at all.

Vignaroli was no mug was he??

Yet for some reason we keep shopping at the shit warehouse

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Just need to assess their physical and mental aspects well

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well considering our captain got out jumped twice in one game by Robbie ****ing Corthwaite i have no issue with the 'toughness' of any of the Asian blokes.

totally agree Thai players too, there are some fantastic ones out there.

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Originally Posted by plague

totally agree Thai players too, there are some fantastic ones out there.

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agree. they smashed indo in the SSE asean cup (- the good teams) 3-2. partied like it was 1666

Ocaravan
Burns/Castro/FBK
Milligan/Paartalu
Georgevski/Jackson/Boogard/Hoffman
Duncan

Bench - Nabbout/Poljak/Vujica/Ugarkovic/GK

Squad - Youth and minimum wage.

Obvs that's using all marquee statuses and I know I'm clutching at straws. But Ocaravan, FBK, Partaalu would all come under the cap in a well managed club.

Until we start aiming for a squad like that we can never expect to do anything in this league.

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Originally Posted by Wilso8948

Ocaravan
Burns/Castro/FBK
Milligan/Paartalu
Georgevski/Jackson/Boogard/Hoffman
Duncan

Bench - Nabbout/Poljak/Vujica/Ugarkovic/GK

Squad - Youth and minimum wage.

Obvs that's using all marquee statuses and I know I'm clutching at straws. But Ocaravan, FBK, Partaalu would all come under the cap in a well managed club.

Until we start aiming for a squad like that we can never expect to do anything in this league.

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Milligan Castro and burns. Good luck fitting that into 2 marquee positions

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Originally Posted by rhysd

Milligan Castro and burns. Good luck fitting that into 2 marquee positions

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Thanks to Tim your now allowed 3

That being said Burns should be fitted in under the cap

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Originally Posted by Wilso8948

Ocaravan
Burns/Castro/FBK
Milligan/Paartalu
Georgevski/Jackson/Boogard/Hoffman
Duncan

Bench - Nabbout/Poljak/Vujica/Ugarkovic/GK

Squad - Youth and minimum wage.

Obvs that's using all marquee statuses and I know I'm clutching at straws. But Ocaravan, FBK, Partaalu would all come under the cap in a well managed club.

Until we start aiming for a squad like that we can never expect to do anything in this league.

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Get rid of these 2 off your list and I might be interested. I'd take FBK if we can't get Castro but not both of them.

I'd tweak your dream team like this.

O'Caravan
Nabbout/Castro/Burns
Uga/Paartalu
George/Ansell/Mullen/Hoffman
Duncan

Brown/Jackson/Koutrimbus/Clut/BK

Vujica/Sawyer/Cowburn/Allessi/Poljak as squad players.

Castro and Burns would be on Marquee wages, only way to get them here. Paartalu would be on Boogards coin. Ansell can play but we need to make sure he passes his medical.

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Originally Posted by Frodo

Get rid of these 2 off your list and I might be interested. I'd take FBK if we can't get Castro but not both of them.

I'd tweak your dream team like this.

O'Caravan
Nabbout/Castro/Burns
Uga/Paartalu
George/Ansell/Mullen/Hoffman
Duncan

Brown/Jackson/Koutrimbus/Clut/BK

Vujica/Sawyer/Cowburn/Allessi/Poljak as squad players.

Castro and Burns would be on Marquee wages, only way to get them here. Paartalu would be on Boogards coin. Ansell can play but we need to make sure he passes his medical.

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Even this team minus one marquee, and using BK's wage to sign a cheap back up goalie is feasible and a damn site better than what we trotted out last year.

Would have Johnny K over Mullen but your point is solid and sensible.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

I actually don't think it can be achieved in 12 months

I just don't see how even Jesus could sort this shit out in 12 months

To me it just can't happen

What though is the way forward is to actually try and ship 3 blokes in particular out.

Kokko if we can get him a club back in the shitful Scandanavian league he come from then that is a necessity

Brown being he on two years more it may be impossible to dislodge him but we need to be looking at better foreigners than him. Getting him out would be a godsend

Boogaard also needs to go. Paying big money to a slow CD who gives away pens and red cards all the time is a problem we need rid of. Hopefully find some cashed up Asian club to take him

If we can get rid of those 3 it would free up a large chunk of salary cap space. Getting rid of any of the 3 would also help

If this was to happen with the other 7 spots free it would give us 10 spots available for the new man to rebuild

10 spots ain't going to allow the new man a complete rebuild but will give him a better crack at it.

I would also happily let two blokes go who I think we could ship out easily

Ugarkovic and Nabbout would both have some currency for rival teams

I would let them go also to assist the rebuild if the opportunity arose.

Now as for signing blokes

Only be paying market value for HAL level players. I backing our recent signings OCaravan and Georgevski are getting paid better next year than they we may have needed to agree to

Start to out together a squad of 10/15 HAL level players as soon as possible and then keep building each year from then on

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I agree with the highlighted section here very much and can definitely see some sense in the rest of your points. Uga and Nabbout wouldn't be on unbelievable coin so I think we should keep them, but if we lose them i'm not going to cry.

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Originally Posted by plague

Even this team minus one marquee, and using BK's wage to sign a cheap back up goalie is feasible and a damn site better than what we trotted out last year.

Would have Johnny K over Mullen but your point is solid and sensible.

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We could also use Kanta + Hooles wages to sign one of Castro or Burns. Find another Asian Messi to play across the front line somewhere and we have kept things under the cap. The loss of both BK's could be a massive deal this year in regards to the salary cap. If anyone would take Boogs we would actually be able to build a half-decent squad wage wise. HOWEVER!!! We still need some reason to attract them to a wooden spoon winning club without overpaying too much. A reputable coach would be a start.

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Originally Posted by MFKS

Thanks to Tim your now allowed 3

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At the FFA's discretion.

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Originally Posted by PC14

At the FFA's discretion.

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I'm pretty sure they'd be happy to keep Castro in the league.