Yeah playing next Wednesday the 11th, kahiba had something like 15 catchup games to reschedule from their washed out weekend apparently.
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Yeah playing next Wednesday the 11th, kahiba had something like 15 catchup games to reschedule from their washed out weekend apparently.
Kahibah field is a dust bowl
As is Stevenson Park.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage
Your correct there is a fee, it used to be $50. I'm not sure if it's still that but I'd say so?Quote:
Originally Posted by riverboy
The multi registered rule would work well with Friday night all age players, I don't really think the Saturday team players would be available too often to help.
With a few previous points raised, It looks like Minmi will finish first and gain promotion. But what should be noted is there is currently only 9 teams in zone league 1 as Maryland Fletcher pulled out late. There is a good chance the association would promote both Minmi and North's and relegate the team that finish last in Zone League 1. This may lead to 2 teams from zone league 3 pushing up to fill the gaps in zone league 2. Ideally another club would join zone league 3 to make 8 teams in that division, certainly clubs like Maitland Juniors, Maryland Fletcher, Raymond Terrace or Tenambit could come back?
I guess the big issue facing zone league 2 and 3 clubs is player availability. It appears many clubs have struggled to field 2 fresh teams consistently. I'm not sure how this can be solved, but obviously the more players stepping up full time from all age football could certainly help this. The goal would probably be having most clubs having 32 players on their books.
I guess the remainder of 2021 is still up in the air. Let's just hope the finals can be played, Big question mark over football being played before then especially considering cases have been in the region and the 14 day period people need to self isolate or can return a positive test. With that in mind, You wouldn't think next week will go ahead either.
Singleton coming down from NewFM might push 2 ZPL teams down to ZL1. Thus making it two 10 team competitions and two 8 team competitions. I don't think second place getting promoted is acceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by anfield
I heard Singleton were being allowed to stay upQuote:
Originally Posted by Homer7654
There's no way they could drop Singleton given they are running 4th plus are the defending champions. I'm hearing Toronto are much more likely?Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer7654
Plus there has been alot of clubs that have been promoted in recent years that didn't finish first so they will do it again if required. How are they supposed to fill the gaps otherwise? Greta (2nd), New Lambton (3rd) Mayfield Juniors (3rd) and Kahibah (2nd) are all examples of teams promoted from zone league 3 into zl2 in the last 5-6 years.
Singo apparently dropping out of new fm & also one other team.
Question, can minmi or north’s field 3 sides in ZL1? You’d want to have around 40+ players on your books plus all age players to fill in
With so many ZL divisions it might be time to drop 3rds. The "heart n soul of the club can play AA fri night and still fill in on the field, drink and cook the bbqQuote:
Originally Posted by Sausage
If you drop 3rds they aren’t playing one night then coming back down the next. The reason it works is they are at the game already after playing and they feel part of the club. I think you would lose them on game days hard to tell the wife and kids your out friday all night then Sat or Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim
I agree, I think the point is that clubs want to grow their player pool. Also ZPL is 3 grades, I think the main point of having 3 grades in ZL1 is to prepare them for ZPL if they get promoted. I think all zone league clubs should be helping to grow the competition and encourage more players to move across from all age football.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Hacker
All age is a decent competition, but every team really are just that an individual team that can come and go each year.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I feel the joint Zone Committee should do away with Zone League B sides.
The likes of Wallsend, Cooks Hill, Newcastle Olympic, New Lambton ect should be dropped from the Zone Leagues, those clubs already have their grade sides. If those players from said clubs want to play Zone League they will have plenty of options with the numerous other Zone Leage Clubs. If those players from said clubs want to stay with their Clubs then they can field teams in All Age.
Just my opinion.
Only way you can get Suburbs back up the leagues hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Premy
Clubs that have great cultures attract players
Sounds like sour grapes to me
No sour grapes, just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanky
We got hit pretty hard by COVID and a large amount of our ageing squad moving onto All Age.
Many of the guys that moved onto All Age were approached by various Zone League Clubs, however they stayed with us. You would have to ask all of those guy's why they chose to stay with us but it might have something to do with "Great Culture".
We're doing alright and we have a long term plan in place to move our way back up the league's. Maybe you should worry more about cooking the BBQ for the NPL boy's at Darling St rather than what we're doing.
Suburbs probably has a good culture, But remember all those clubs you listed started lower zone league squads from players already in there grade sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by Premy
And the reason these players stayed with their club and dropped down was probably down to the culture of their club.
So in your theory a decent player from Wallsend or New Lambton Northern League one that is surplus to their squad would only have the option of all age if they want to stay with their club? That theory just penalises successful clubs.
Yes, pretty certain that's what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by anfield
A decent player that's surplus to Newcastle Jets doesn't go and play for Newcastle Jets B do they?
Again I know that my opinion will be unpopular to some, I just don't see the point in Club's having a B team.
Barcelona B have recently been in the Spanish 2nd division.Quote:
Originally Posted by Premy
I'm sure your opinion would be entirely different different if you were at one of those mentioned clubs?
Yeah and isn't it ridiculous that if Barcelona B won the Segunda División they are ineligible for promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by anfield
I can assure you that my opinion would stay the same, I would have no interest in playing for a Club's B side
I agree with you premy. All the talk in all the threads is about the natural relegation and promotion process. A yet we have so many teams in the set up that have a cap on where they can go. Some from what I understand can only go to ZL1 due to their A team being in northern league 1. It don’t help the system.
That was always the weird 'rule' that wasn't really a rule. It was always said but I'm not sure it was ever really tested before. Cookers were promoted to ZPL and played in it whilst still in NL1 this year, so the precedent has probably been set that it can happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker
And personally I am of the view that if you club has the culture and numbers then having a 'B side' can help people stay within the club they love and at a level that they enjoy. AA isn't for everyone. In the case of New Lambton (where I play) we handed the reigns from ZPL to NL1 5 years ago and we dropped down to ZL2. We had a heap of players that dropped those 2 divisions with us, but definitely wouldn't have if we dropped to AA. Obviously mine is a biased opinion, but I reckon their was value in that occurring for the club, and for us as a group.
All age football is like City and Suburban cricket, It's pub football.
Good on the clubs with the vision of having a second squad. Garden Suburbs is at the lowest point for some time, no offence but that's the reality.
Maybe if they had the vision a couple of years ago they would still have a ZL1 team plus a ZL3 Squad now and be a progressive club instead of sulking on the forum.
Sulking??? Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?Quote:
Originally Posted by riverboy
I mearly stated my own personal opinion and people on here want to associate that with the club I'm involved with.
I must be forgiven for thinking a local football forum is a place where one would open a discussion about local football. Please forgive me and if you don't mind could you direct me to where one could discuss all things about the local football in the greater Newcastle region in a forum type platform.
Thanks in advance.
When don’t sookurbs sulk? You have the reputation of it too. Sookurb stackers ��
Geez touchy, touchy. I'm not going to waste to much of my time on this. It's in and it's never going to change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Premy
I guess you guys nearly fell over this year and your probably thinking if you had the players from some of the other clubs then you guys would be safe in ZL1. Your in a tough market around you there is Kotara South (ZPL) , Warner's Bay (ZPL), Kahibah (NL1 & ZL2) , Charlestown (Zl3), South Cardiff (NL1) and Cardiff (ZPL and I see they now have a ZL3) so I guess it's a tough market.
Of course you will get a reaction from me when you want to make a sweeping statement about Garden Suburb with no context. Please elaborate as to how Garden Suburb are sulking?Quote:
Originally Posted by riverboy
"I guess". There is your problem, you made an assumption. Your assumption is incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by riverboy
I don't see the value in B teams, PERSONALLY I think B teams are ridiculous. B teams can't compete in the Cup and they can only be promoted to a certain level. Also where do we stop? Someone mentioned that Barcelona have a B team, Barcelona also had a C team do we keep going?
I'll use Cooks Hill(this isn't a shot at Cooks Hill they are only operating within the rules they are allowed to, I'm mearly using Cooks Hill for an example)
Cooks Hill are going to be promoted to NPL next year, one can assume that some of their current squad are going to be surplus and they might move them into their ZPL team. Now they don't have any room in third grade for some of their current ZPL squad, do they make a ZL3 team next year for their players. Then Cooks Hill will have B and C teams in Zone League where do we stop? We could have a Zone division of teams all from the one Club
Suburbs out of their depth here, stick to something you’s do regularly… stacking
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Originally Posted by Silly Sausage
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Absolutely respect the personal perspective and you are of course, absolutely entitled to your opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Premy
As I said previously I'm part of the 'B team' element of a club and I guess I see it a bit differently. We were the 'A' element for an incredibly long period of time, but the growth of our club was supported by a NL1 application. I guess we would have seen it as pretty rough if we went from being a ZPL side to not existing. A 2 division drop was harsh enough, but fair.
We would rather be a second rate side in our club than not see our club progress to NL1 as well.
The FFA Cup (or whatever its called now) would be cool to be involved in, but I personally would rather miss out on that than play AA all year.
And I guess 'only being promoted to a certain level' could be an issue, but for most not really. I don't know of that many ZPL clubs that want to progress beyond that anyway (the ones that have in the last 5 years have done so) and anyone who is 'B" side can get to ZPL, so no real drama.
And the Cookers example again probably depends on an individual perspective. Would it be better to have well run clubs in ZL3 and add teams into that division, or have less clubs and have byes/combined comps/less games.
I can see the benefits of the B teams to the respective club's involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by idontwannaplaywithhowey
I can't see the benefits of the B teams to the respective competitions.
I can see the point Premy i trying to make and I agree that having two zone teams for a single club could be seen as detrimental to the competition
but the issue comes down to a few factors to me, someone with over 20 years of involvement as part of running a club from it's formation, up to it's entry into the highest competition we have in this state
there are many factors in a club's capacity to move up levels of seriousness in competitions - to me, the most important are (in no real order):
a) players, which relates to club culture
b) club administrators and team management
c) facilities and resources, including sponsorship
take away any of these three factors and you won't succeed a step up - to simply ship players around between clubs to suit competition standards completely ignores these first two factors, having the clubs to ship them to ignores that last one
players who feel part of a club, having played many years or some other bond, simply aren't going to and play at another club just because they think they're at ZL2 level. They'll either not play or they will stay with mates and look for other options. Dropping down grades to All Age may not feel appropriate so they may be lost to the game - people get different things out of playing, that's not just pub league, that's all levels of this amateur/pissweak money level
club admins and managers may also just not be keen on the additional crap that goes with zone competitions - some clubs are set up that way and some aren't, some have a culture of organisational nous and skill that can easily step up or add to existing competitions, some don't have anyone capable - some have ambition, some don't - my point is that there may just not be a managerial capacity to run a zone club
the facilities and resources issue speaks for itself - there are rules for being in zone competitions (for better or worse) and they are a limiting factor to the number of teams that can enter
but this is just my take on the issue, having gone through this as part of my club, and having mates involved in another club that has recently stepped up from AA to Zone - I'm sure other people's experience, as players, club members and observers may be different
I'm at a club that I'm involved with the 'B team. I guess my take on it is simple.
At the start of the season we were with Dudley Juniors, we only had half a squad. To play zone league we had to look at other options.
Cardiff City FC came up, they took us on and together we built the numbers to field a zl3 squad. This only occurred around 5 weeks before the competition started.
For us it was a no-brainer, Cardiff City FC are an established and well run club and the move has been good. On field we have been extremely inconsistent with player numbers which has meant our results have been inconsistent. But first year in we have learned our lessons to build from next season.
So if Cardiff didn't take us on there was a good chance that we wouldn't have played zone league at all. This would have meant zl3 would have been an 7 team competition. Would that have been good for the competition?
Our squad short term goals are to be competitive in zl3.
Around 8 years ago, An all age team I was involved with before zone league was turned away from GS for no reason. Committee members come and go and I'm sure it's changed since then. But the point I'm making is that Big clubs like New Lambton and Cooks Hill probably haven't turned away too many teams and players in the last 10 years. Hence they have plenty of players, quality and multiple graded teams.
this couldn't be further from the truth - our junior teams are full in January, our All Age teams are generally stable each year with one or two gaps filled by guys who turn up to training over summer - usually full early February at the latest - National Park is already a dust bowl and we simply don't have the space for training and games, not to mention the extra work involved in having more teamsQuote:
Originally Posted by anfield
as far as men's AA and 35 - we haven't added a new team from outside the club in 5 or 6 years and that was an extraordinary situation involving friends of club members, before that it would have been another four years, also involving friends of members - in fact this season we had to turn away a lot of guys from last season with the destruction/total rebuild of a Friday team, that really hurt to tell blokes who've been with the club years that we didn't have space
I'd say we turn away on average 1-2 full teams per year asking to join, along with probably about 20 individual blokes
The zone guys are pretty much the same, stable bunch of blokes every year - a few drop offs and additions each season - very few go to other clubs, and often that occurs because people move away, rather than anything to do with Cooks Hill
often as guys get older and slower they move down a grade or two, or All Age teams want to take it a bit more serious (and use the good field) - which is why we originally formed the ZL3, even though we still had the ZPL team, which neatly brings the conversation back to the whole point Premy wanted to discuss in the first place
Ok happy to be corrected on that one, cooks Hill wasn't the best example to use. But it happens elsewhere, obviously Cardiff City is one.Quote:
Originally Posted by boz-monaut
Originally the use and approval of B teams was to help prop up numbers when a lot of clubs pulled out of ZL comps within 2-3 years.
I think Premy is right though, have we gotten to a point now where B teams at clubs are now effecting numbers of clubs that COULD be in ZL?
I've always firmly believed ZL should be used as a proper pathway from Juniors towards NL1 and NPL.
The associations should be encouraging, promoting and even helping smaller clubs get there structures right to enable them to enter ZL competitions, and then be guiding all clubs through ZL2 and 3 to help them grow and retain player numbers.
The idea behind extra divisions in ZL1 & ZPL was that clubs were bigger, had their sh*t together and had better organised coaching through to their junior ranks so they should be able to sustain a bigger squad.
The strength of Friday and Saturday All Age A and B divisions show that there are a lot of clubs who could easily compete in ZL if they had the structure and it meant something.
Singleton are actively advertising for coaching staff for all their NL1 age groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by Homer7654
Pretty obvious they have intentions to stay up or they wouldn't be bothering at all.
I can only speak on behalf of what it’s like in ZPL. The structure of most of these clubs are all without a junior base. It’s for guys that want to play in a club environment that’s still competitive and without the commitment and expectation of the top two divisions. We don’t want to have to deal with juniors.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyKplunk
If you are playing in ZPL, chances are that your shot at playing in NPL is already gone.
Why would a club having two zone league teams be a problem?
Having a ZPL side & a ZL2 or 3 side means you could put all your younger players coming through into ZL3 & bring them up into ZPL in a few years once developed. Or even chuck the older guys that are past their prime in the lower side..& also they can mentor the younger guys? Not every kid coming through is good enough for NPL.
you cut B teams & I’ll tell you now we will lose players to the game all together fast.
Seems like the only people with a problem with clubs having 2 senior setups are those whose clubs are having trouble attracting new players.
I fail to see how its an issue for anybody, it puts stable clubs in competitions that desperately need stability, and it gives players who aren't at NPL, NL1, or sometimes ZPL level/commitment a chance to represent their community or local club, or even play with friends.
Re g suburb, maybe more would want to come and join the zone league ranks if it wasn't a gigantic cry-fest every time you play them, puts people off
Seems like some people can't differentiate a person's opinion and a club, also seems like some people can't read as we have already been over this.Quote:
Originally Posted by jessepinkman
Seems like some people have no problem making defamatory statements in anonymity. Next time you grace Lance Yorke Oval with your presence come introduce yourself and I'll be happy to shout you a drink and listen to your thoughts on this so called cry-fest.
Cheers...
Hilarious.
Chest beaters think that having 2 mediocre ZL teams is good. What a farce. 100 players and cant crack a half assed NL1.
You cut B teams then the blowins can go back to where shouldve been in the first place, their own suburb.
Then theres the thought that ZPL is too good for juniors. What an embarrassment for local football.