legit i thought you were so old that you are now just a brain in a jar connected to some cables and a Steven Hawking type speech box shit going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
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legit i thought you were so old that you are now just a brain in a jar connected to some cables and a Steven Hawking type speech box shit going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
What the fvck is wrong with that? hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by plague
listen for all this talk about free thinkers, and education, and capitalism, and unions, its important to note that 99% of the worlds population can't even peel a banana the right way* so regardless of what we do the chimps are gonna win so we may as well all hail Caesar and accept our fate.
*this is a true and correct thing
Found an interesting article last week on the Rolling Stone website. I think it was written back in like 2010, Dunster probably knows the one. All about how pervasive Goldman Sachs are in big wig city in USA but the rest of the world too and how they have been the architects of every big depression/crash since the great depression and lined their pockets massively while doing so. I hadn't heard before about it going that far back, and the other interesting one was that they are also (apparently) behind the high oil prices of the last 10 years, driving investors into resources and commodities after the GFC as they were supposedly safer. This article reckoned at one point each barrel of oil would have been traded 9 times amongst speculators before it made its way to the consumer. This increased "false" demand led to higher prices for consumers despite lower physical demand and increased production. Fairly lengthy read but it was pretty interesting and certainly gave me some more insight into some of what you have said Dunster about how truly ****ed up the world is in terms of functioning only to serve the elite few.
edit - Plague, should note I found the link to the article in a hippy land Guardian comments section, in an article about how Trump was screwing America again. [More specifically his "draining the swamp" was bullshit as he is selecting more ex- Goldman Sachs employees for his staff. Apparently 4/5 last treasurers have previously worked for the firm]
Figured i may as well link it for anyone interested to save them the trouble http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...chine-20100405
i also am concerned with Trumps ability to 'drain the swamp' whilst filling his cabinet with the filth from the very same swamp. all i say is that he will be judged on his ability to live up to his promises. Thats how the system works. if he fails he's out on his ass. but my problem is that people have given up already. im willing to let it play out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macca
one thing that Trump has hinted at (and already used) is his govt leverage in these bailout negotiations. the two big 'public' faces of the GFC in America was the banking sector and the car industry. Trump is saying that in the future if you want the Govt to save your company, then you are going to give the Govt something back. Bush/Obama just handed over money and let the idiots do whatever they wanted (and your article points out why that happened). If Trump can get a better deal then great.
again, im not sure if Trump can do it, but America was of the opinion that Hillary definitely wouldnt.
Yeah all in all. Despite me thinking he's a complete moron (right or wrong) I don't really care too strongly on him being Pres, and I think all the people over here in Aus who are saying its the end of the world etc etc need to wake up to themselves a bit. There are plenty of idiotic politicians over here too. But it also comes down to us judging off public portrayals. Bush is widely regarded is an idiot, but I've seen a few videos where people make the case that he was actually a genius, just not a good public speaker / personable.
I too am interested to see how it plays out. I just hope that all the leftie outrage has been storm in a teacup stuff, because there is potential for it to go very badly.
The Press Secretary coming out and gaslighting the public early isn't a good look though. Why is Trump so sensitive that he sends him out to blatantly lie to the public and make up figures that were immediately discredited by the companies that actually hold them (Metro System operators for one)?
Then today Trump's counselor Conway comes out and says they weren't lying - just using "alternative facts". Kim-Jong Trump needs to be fact checked at every turn.
I'm re-reading 1984 at the moment and the parallels are uncanny.
yeah look as I've said before the silver lining is that if it goes as bad as it could go, it may teach voters everywhere to actually judge a candidate on their ability, rather than the fluff and bubble everyone is falling for. im talking Rudd, Turnbull etc all came in on a platform of personality rather than policy. id love all pollies to be anonymous and boring and just get the job done. pure fantasy i know.
We're a little lucky in Australia that all our politicians have the charisma of a wet paper bag.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
yeah i agree they shouldn't bother defending it, but i also think that the nit picking is so frustrating. who cares how many turned up to the inauguration? he got more people to turn up in the right places to vote him in. thats the number that was important right? Trump and his crew should just continually point to the scoreboard so to speak and leave it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve136
the petty shots by the haters are frustrating, as it is going to dilute the real outrage if/when he does really screw something up.
Oh I agree 100%. I was hoping the first briefing by the press secretary would be informative and talk about policy movements and plans.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
But it was the administration's decision for him to get up there and give a bizarre, angry rant about how the media was so unfair and it was the biggest attended event in history. Bizarre.
Yeah, agree on all counts. Lots of sore losers.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
I don't have a real issue with charismatic leaders, I think you sort of need to have one if you want to get anywhere. If Shorten was at all likeable he probably would have cruised the last election. But charisma can't be enough, it should be a tool to get you into the job and maintain a good relationship with the public while you go about the business of getting shit done. Politics recently is far far too much about why the other guy is shit and how much they've done wrong rather than "Hey look I have good ideas, lets do this". Trump now has a chance to put his stamp on the country. Australia is screwed for a while, the major parties are both useless which leads to people voting for independents etc, but then the majors have no power to do anything even if they stumble upon decent ideas. I don't know what the solution is
I get the feeling you are gonna get sick and tired of writing that word over the next 4 years!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by steve136
I have a friend in the US working for a news agency paid for with tax dollars to send news to countries without a free press. Trump and Bannon have actually taken personal executive control of it. With the propaganda machine we have on our hands, I'm sure I'll be brainwashed to be a Trump fan shortly anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
Trump upsetting the other racists. bahahaha. What a circus
January 20 declared "National Day of Patriotic Devotion". Heil Trump.
Seriously though, his move to reinstate a global gag rule that bans US-funded groups around the world from discussing abortion is disappointing. Reminds me of the start of a George Carlin skit - "Why is it that most of the people who are against abortion are people you wouldn't want to f*ck in the first place?" TPP killed off too - I disagree with most Democrats and Republicans on this one. I don't believe protectionism is the way to grow an economy and create jobs.
wait till all these yanks have to buy their $4500 made in Ohio iphones...lets see how dedicated they are to protectionism then
I honestly believe Trump is bluffing on the whole protectionism thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by q-money
He's using his position of power to bully companies, and no one has yet called his bluff.
Because if they called his bluff, he can automatically label them 'un-american', and what CEO wants that PR hit?
Combine that with the govt funding that goes into a lot of those industries and he has them over a barrel.
He's negotiating from a position of strength.
even though I disagree with it I understand it and don't think it's a massive deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve136
Again goes back to his mantra of "our money our way or your money your way - you choose".
Simplistic, jingoistic but also core Republican policy.
Maybe the Clinton foundation can fill in the funding gap?
Deflecting onto Clinton. Right out of the Trump playbook :rof:Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
But yeah I agree. I don't think it's a massive deal. Although some are claiming it will lead to funding cuts for every program that falls under global health assistance, which would be concerning.
a very interesting thing to come out of today was CNN's decision not to air the White House press conference live and in full (apparently this is the way it is done, especially in the early days of an administration). They chose to only show edited portions after the event.
Word is (but not official from CNN themselves) that the decision was made because the White House now tells lies and they don't feel comfortable broadcasting official 'lies' from the Govt without any editing. This is a very very interesting push back from the Trump admin's previous attitude towards such a large (and renowned) media entity.
Will be fascinating if this is true as it can (and no doubt will) go in a thousand different directions.
That's an interesting pushback from CNN. It was striking when Trump refused to answer their question at his press conference because they were "fake news" - when he was actually mad at Buzzfeed, - not CNN who actually chose not to publish the intelligence dosier. On face value, it seems like an ethically correct move by CNN not to broadcast briefings live and in full if they are going to be broadcasting information that is at best misleading and at worst straight up fabricated. Even the Fox News team were arguing that Spicer's briefings weren't legitimately press conferences because he wasn't taking questions.
What is your opinion Plague?
yeah look its only a rumour regarding CNN's reasons so we are playing hypothetical. i disagree a wee bit on their reporting of the buzzfeed stuff. it was no better than the old "unnamed sources tell us...." line that lets you get away with anything. CNN should have verified it, they are a news organisation, they are there to report the news and they have journalistic standards to adhere to. when the dust settled it looked like they just wanted to stick the boot into Trump and went off way too early.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve136
but its a case of the media not trusting the govt and the govt not trusting the media.
this is the way it is now and no it didnt start with Trump, but its reached peak shambles with this current lot.
in the old days the media was never part of the story, that isn't the case anymore as more and more media members make very lucrative livings offering up news as 'opinion' rather than straight reporting.
its also nothing new that pollies just don't face up to hostile media anymore. Obama and Hillary wouldnt go near Fox News and Trump is calling CNN liars to their faces. None of this is healthy and i have no idea how it resolves itself.
social media is definitely going to be a bigger and bigger factor as pollies find a way to get their message out in their words to their supporters without getting a filter from friendly or unfriendly media. Like it or not Trumps twitter feed was a massive part of his reach and appeal. theres probably a lot of people who at least appreciate that they were hearing from the madman directly. Counter this with Hillary who's every move on social media was so polished and vanilla that a lot of people never really believed it was written by her or that the sentiment was ever genuine anyway.
as i said its going to be fascinating to see how it plays out.
again, im cheering for anarchy and chaos, let it fly.
can we change our flag to red with dragonsQuote:
An arm of the Chinese government has snapped up Rio Tinto's coal mines in NSW and in the process has emerged as one of the largest coal miners in Australia.
Fly it next to the Hawk family crest from one of the castle spires.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk
The governments and the media are all owned by the G30 so it's not even relevant if the government and media trust each other or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
It's little more than a smoke screen.
This is the lot responsible for essentially advising the US Government to gift $29 Trillion in payments to save their sorry arses from the GFC they effectively caused.
Trumps not even an issue because he's already under their control the same as Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Reagan before him.
Trumps already started cutting Public Sector Jobs as they have commanded him to do.
it's an abortion - the consequences are going to be another economic disaster sooner rather than later.
And keep in mind the only constraint the US government has for hiring workers is the availability of workers - cost is not an issue as their ability to pay wages cannot be challenged in economic terms.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.5e09dcf80207
Note: The comments within this article are from Conservative Think tanks and are for comedy purposes only.
This is seriously funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELD2AwFN9Nc
Seeing as this is pretty much the only thread where this discussion can be had - I am interested in a serious discourse on the current push for changing the date of Australia Day.
I get the argument that my fellow white ppl can't really be held to account on atrocities committed by our admittedly f*cked up ancestors, but it also must be said that for Australia to be truly inclusive and at peace within itself, we need a treaty with our aboriginal population and celebrate this great country on a day where everyone can be a part of it. Because unfortunately this day, for a portion of our population, represents the beginning of the systematic eradication & genocide of the aboriginal population & culture.
Happy for both sides of the argument to be made in this discussion - but be respectful. Enough of this leftard vs RWNJ dismissal of points of view. Point & counterpoint, that's how adults have a discussion on ideas.
amen to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
my problem is, exactly what day 'will' represent inclusiveness? Because 26/01/1788 was bad for indigenous folk, and in a lot of peoples minds its never gotten any better. So any day recognised as 'Australia Day' will be seen as a reminder of the divide.
for mine, the date is irrelevant, but every day we have a debate about the date, the way we celebrate, the flag etc etc etc is another day we stop dealing with the real issues facing the indigenous population which are (but not limited to):
-incarceration rate.
-domestic abuse.
-education standards.
-health standards.
-opportunities.
etc etc etc.
Now think what you will about Abbott but he at least shone a big spotlight on it and went "here is the real damn problem how do we fix it" and everyone immediately went "racist!!!!!!". Find me anywhere that the self labelled concerned citizens actually want to fix the problems facing the community and maybe the day we enact some legislation, or the day we begin to see some results, then make that day 'Australia Day'.
sorry was never go to be enough.
hashtags are never going to work.
now, before anyone misunderstands what this is.Quote:
-incarceration rate.
-domestic abuse.
-education standards.
-health standards.
-opportunities.
etc etc etc.
these are not problems limited to aboriginal people.
these are not problems caused only due to white mans interference.
but the fact is the numbers are skewed and they need to be fixed.
How about 9th May? Opening day of the first Federal Parliment in Australia where Australia took over governance from the British? Or Wattle Day on 1st sept?
Agree that such a decision is largely symbolic, but would go a long way to bringing aboriginal society into the fold, as it were.
Also agree though, such a decision would need to be reinforced by significant legislative reform around official recognition & support for First Australians. Maori & Hawaiian ancestral treaties were signed in the 1840's - why are we so far behind?
yeah but again the 1st day of Parliament was still the 'white mans parliament' one that Aboriginals couldn't vote on yeah?(and i think we hated the chicks back then too right?).Quote:
Originally Posted by furns
thats my point, every day from early Australia still has an element of suffering for indigenous folk.
and im a little different on the legislation stuff, im talking about laws that treat everyone the same, and standards and expectations across the whole community for us to abide by.
the recognition stuff is fluff. me, you and pretty much everyone else on this foz doesnt need a piece of paper to tell us that everyone is equal. its an assumed expectation that any decent society has.
but pollies prefer to debate this that deal with how to handle the scurge of child abuse in indigenous communities. leave the abusers in there and you're an enabler, remove the kids for their own protection and you're fostering another stolen generation, take away the grog and you're denying civil liberties.
no one wants to tread in those waters.
thats what i hate the most.
In the 60's 70's and 80's nobody really gave a rats arse about celebrating Australia Day.
It didn't really become popular until the neo-liberals worked out that it was an excellent means by which to divide and conquer the population through good old fashioned Nazi style nationalism.
Enter John Winston Howard - he loved Australia Day as it allowed him to promote his white supremacist ideology.
Massive push for Australia Day from 1996 on wards. Plutocratic owned media machine also got on board as well to promote the very worst of Australia against minorities.
When should we celebrate Australia Day ? Never. It's nationalistic white supremacist bullshit and the sooner it's forgotten the better.
yep, could have shot a gun down Sydney Harbour back in the 80's and no one would have gotten hurt........Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...KCD1RGtfscWWDg
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...0lV2W65czn_vLJ
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...BIkaIAxsAyCniQ
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...c99a7e55af.jpg
https://i.redd.it/9tk5545nl0ex.gif
Good post Plague.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
The governments of the day are still behaving like khunts to our indigenous people . Take these investigations into Child abuse. Not a single conviction -even though they pumped massive resources in against people with little money or skills to fight against it. That's the reality. Imagine the same actions taken upon the suburbs of Vaucluse, Point Piper, or Toorak ? it would never happen - but if it did I'd bet my life they'd uncover more pedo's in those suburbs that they would in the bush.
The incidence of child abuse within Aboriginal communities is all based upon thin air.
Sure it probably happens but why investigate Aboriginal communities and not the top end of town ? Answer: blatant racism.
I mean we all know from A Current Affair that Aboriginals are all alcoholics. Wrong. All the research suggests that alcohol consumption is positively related to income. As incomes rise so to does alcohol consumption.
If the government is worried about alcoholism then they should be targeting the highest income earners not Aboriginal people who in many cases are among the lowest income earning demographic.
Want to lower the incidence of Aboriginal deaths in custody. Easy - stop locking them up for petty issues that any white person would receive a caution for at worst.
Neither side of politics is doing anything and the voting public of this country are simply too ****ing stupid and under the control of the mass media.
The bicentennial was when the shit started, prior to that nothing like it is now - it was just a day off work.
The event in 1988 was an outlier. It was not the norm
Google 1988 Australia Day and it lights up like a Xmas tree - put in 1987 and you will struggle to find anywhere near the same amount of pics or indeed celebrations.
Prior to 1994 not all states and territories even recognised let alone celebrated Australia Day as a public holiday.
Get rid of it - it's a waste of time and only links us back to a very dark time in the countries history.
i contend that someone like Pat O'Shane has done more to divide Australians that any indigenous man in any indigenous community.
and thats a shame because her achievements warranted respect, but as soon as she became part of the class that looked back down on her own people and kept them from reaching the same heights.
Id make Twiggy Forrest indigenous affairs minister, at least he's trying to empower people. and yes he's doing it to make a dollar for himself, but heck, why not let everyone else in on the fun.
We get nowhere talking about people we need to discuss ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by plague
But we also need to discuss them when it suits us not when popular media tells us it's time to do so.
There's only one Twiggy - the original and still the best.
http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...ss%20in%201966
I've just realised; Trump talks exactly like Dr Evil.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
http://www.solidarity.net.au/aborigi...-he-makes-out/
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nati...1fbf7ab6d4b4f3
http://www.noosacommunityradio.org/h...-tribal-voice/
https://castancentre.com/2015/10/06/...-human-rights/
More reasons why Andrew [Twiggy] Forrest should never be taken seriously.
And if we dig deeper we can see his privileged family background and note that the only thing he knows about indigenous Australians is how to take their land or publicly shame them - as did his family right back to his great grand father and great Uncle - known white supremacists of their days.
Sir John Forrest in particular as Premier of WA put into law that non-whites could not own mining licences. That's a wonderful legacy indeed.