Printable View
This is the crux of the issue for me as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
If they just released him, fine. But we were sold a bunch of bullshit about the club holding all the cards and leveraging them for our benefit. What changed in the end?
For the most part I agree - not sad to see him go. But clearly the Jets weren't planning this and that's the problem. As a few others have said, if they released him last week before the Adelaide omission and made it clear what the plan was, it might have easier to take.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
But they didn't. They fed us bullshit about not being bullied and Miller was clearly after some players. They can't now come out and say the Jets did what was best for the club from the outset because they didn't.
Long term it's a good move, but all these short term disasters, whether it's PR, on-field, off-field or whatever will EVENTUALLY see the membership base piss off. The club is just lucky we've been so moronically resilient for so long.
I'll also add that if they had a ****ing brain they could have announced the loss of Carney at the same time as signing Nordstrand & introducing Ugarkovic. Two for one and we might have looked like we were better off. Now the goodwill from those two signings has all but disappeared.
I think you are missing the point the extra $80K can be rolled over in addition to the Max cap spend next year, plus Carneys current contract amount so essentially free up $300k next year. Then you look at the potential to utilise the other new cap exceptions and it starts adding up to a good quality player, or paying the overs required to get blokes across the line to move to a basketcase trying to rebuild.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8
All that only matter's though if we can get a new owner as the FFA ain't going to even contemplate anything over the salary floor.
Now the issue is making the most of the salary cap space that got free'd up by Carney. Can the Jets be trusted to do that though is the real question. We need to make a big play for someone, start being ambitious with who we go for. I'd also say we gotta try and shift out a couple of other overpayed players, cause we didn't have Boogard or Carney against Adelaide last game, about 500,000 not on the pitch and you wouldn't know the difference.
Yes because no doubt Arnie has no idea how Carney plays. Probably never even watched him hey... Seriously some of these comments are brilliant!Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Can't wait for the Members Forum before next season.
Why is everyone saying its a good thing to have those funds in the cap to spend next year? What on earth has given you confidence that we can spend it wisely on a top player or two? Our previous record doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
jerks might be facing empty chairsQuote:
Originally Posted by Premy
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/37...go-free/?cs=12Quote:
A-LEAGUE: David Carney leaves Jets to take up contract at Sydney FC
By JAMES GARDINER
Feb. 2, 2016, 8:49 p.m.
GONE: David Carney. Picture: Jonathan Carroll
GONE: David Carney. Picture: Jonathan Carroll
See your ad here
CHIEF executive David Eland insists that the decision to release David Carney is the best outcome for the Newcastle Jets.
Carney had the final four months of his contract mutually terminated on Tuesday, opening the way for the former Socceroo to join Sydney FC.
“It is a good outcome. Ultimately it was the only outcome,” Eland said.
“Clearly the player didn’t want to be here any more. He was disengaged and disgruntled.
“It became clear to us, and I think his omission on Saturday was reflective of where we were at.
“Having David remain in the squad was not going to be conducive to the team’s performance for the remainder of the year.
“It is certainly not in line with the culture we are trying to build at the club.”
Carney has been the Jets’ best player, scoring three goals and playing a hand in several others.
However, he has fallen out with coach Scott Miller in recent weeks and the Newcastle Herald has been told that the winger’s relationship with other members of the squad had strained.
See your ad here
The Jets were in talks with Sydney about a player swap and had targeted the return of Andrew Hoole to his home town.
However, the 22-year-old turned down the approach and instead is determined to fight for his position at Sydney, where he is six months into an 18-month deal.
Several other Sydney players were discussed but were either unsuitable or not interested.
“Clearly the process has taken this long because that is what we have been trying to negotiate,” Eland said.
“I’m not going to talk about players Sydney were trying to put on the table.
“What you can read is that we have determined that we want flexibility in the future to contract players that our aligned to our strategy.”
Transfer fees are not permitted between A-League clubs.
Sydney FC, who sold Alex Gersbach to Norwegian champions Rosenborg BK on Monday for an estimated fee of $300,000, have signed Carney on an 18-month deal.
The Jets can stockpile the balance of Carney’s salary, believed to be about $80,000, to spend above the salary cap for the 2016-17 campaign.
“David stops being paid by the Newcastle Jets today,” Eland said.
“There are salary-cap banking provisions within the regulations. Looking to the future, clearly David’s release frees up a significant amount in next year’s salary cap.”
The Jets have recently added Olyroo Steve Ugarkovic and former Danish international Morten Nordstrand to the roster.
Nine other players are off contract, headed by imports Leonardo, Milos Trifunovic and Enver Alivodic, in-form goalkeeper Mark Birighitti and home-grown midfielder Ben Kantarovski.
Carney was told he was part of the club’s plans for next season but he would likely have to take a pay cut.
“We have a responsibility, particularly with our financial situation and the ownership model as it stands, to maximise the value of every dollar in our salary cap,” Eland said.
“David was signed initially as an Australian marquee. David and his management were very keen to negotiate a renewal with us.
“During those discussions we made it clear that David was part of our future plans, but we were going to negotiate on our terms, when we were ready, and it was likely that we would need to review his level of remuneration.”
That's a fair enough response from Eland I guess (I'm not inferring it's believable, just not totally embarrassing :) ), makes it look like we didn't want to lose him but were trying to give him the chance to play ACL and to make it look like in the end we cut our losses (OK, few of us think we got anything less than shafted here, but that's what we've become accustomed to so we are more numb than totally gutted - as usual...)
Did anyone else know he was our Australian marquee?
If thats the case, him leaving doesn't free up any salty cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas477
As it says initially.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas477
We got him here when InZane was here and we had Heskey and The Fat **** was running up huge bills running the club and he was signed mid season exploiting a salary cap loophole
I would imagine some stage after this when The -Fat **** decided to trim costs he was bought in under the cap or when the FFA took over the carcass he was bought in under the cap as they were not spending any more than they had to
Eland just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8
Don't sprinkle sugar on a turd and call it candy David.
This statement is bullshit from beginning to end.
"It is a good outcome"??? It could not possibly have been a worse outcome. We have given away our most productive attacking player in the middle of the season for nothing. What other club would do that? The club has clearly given up on this season, so all the bullshit about building a "never-say-die" culture was and is, just what they thought club members wanted to hear.
Banking $80,000 for next year's salary cap is of absolutely no value when the club isn't even spending the salary cap to start with this year. When did Carney become the Australian marquee? that has never been stated by the club before today to my knowledge.
To question Carney's commitment to the club is a joke. He was trying to get the club to extend his contract. Commitment like respect is a two-way street. For days the club has been saying Carney wasn't part of their plans for next year and all of a sudden today he was after all.
The club didn't want him for next year and thought they could get a beneficial outcome and in the end blame it all on Carney. It has backfired on them bigtime.
Is there any surprise no-one wants to come here? Not one Sydney player could be convinced to come here.
What really pisses me off is the FFA's complicity in this. They obviously knew that Shitney wanted Carney for their ACL campaign and they have orchestrated this bunfight like puppeteers to make sure Arnie got he wanted and we got nothing. C***s.
I think what a lot of people are missing here is what would have happened if he stayed. Possibly train him alone and never pick him. But that would have caused division amongst the playing group and possibly had one or two players questioning Miller's leadership. This can spread within a club like wildfire. And in the end you have a player who wont be here next season and a playing group that has no confidence in the gaffer.
A few things.Quote:
Originally Posted by skullboy
Its common knowledge that Carney original came here as Australian Marquee when that type of position still existed.
The Club offered him a contract, yes it was a pay cut but that's reasonable with an aging player.
"Productive attacking player" 3 goals in 37 games, that's real "Productive"
How do you know that the Club isn't spending the full cap? Thats not public knowledge.
After the last 2 years if you think FFA care one bit abut Newcastle then you are seriously delusional.
In the end the bloke is mediocre at best. He's an average sized fish in an extremely small pond and playing here makes him look like one of our best. In my opinion Leaky G was a bigger loss then this bloke. I for one am happy to see the back of him. He's not the kind of player who will win you championships and he sure as hell hasn't been the player to even drag us into finals contention. Tada devon head.
To me its not about David Carney as a player and his ability. Its the fact we got absolutely screwed over by everyone. Mainly by our own board who have shown they cannot stand up for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
I think i am out until a new owner comes in. I am just finding it such an effort to support this club right now.
In the end it IS about his ability. We've let our rivals take two of our players in the past year.. Yes. But we have also let our rivals pay massive overs for two players who are mediocre at best and won't win them titles or trophies. Carney won't go to Sydney and set the world alight. So who cares. We don't even play them again this season. This deal was handed poorly Yes. But is it a poor deal? In my opinion ending up paying overs for some of Sydney's rejects would have been the poorer of the two options.Quote:
Originally Posted by leftrightout
"Our Board"???? You mean FFA/SydneyFAQuote:
Originally Posted by leftrightout
This is a good opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
We will never know the true story but looking in from the outside it is probably not hard to get an image for what really did go on.
Carney has had how many clubs now? No one will ever begrudge anyone for taking care of their families and looking out for the best bottom line which, as a footballer with limited earning potential, is always going to be a big reason as to why players move on. What rankles is the bs that poured out over dec/jan. This mystery Qatari interest was obviously nothing.
Look at the upside, we played significantly better on Sunday against Adelaide and took the game to the in-form Reds. This, without boogard and carney, spoke volumes for the fact we actually deserved a point out of the game.
If Miller/JP had inherited last seasons squad.. Griffiths, Neumann, Flores, Montano.. I am sure our position on the table would be different.
The other upside is that this will free up nearly 12% of the cap. Just think about that for even a second. Was carney that good?! HELL NO!
Eland's comments reinforce for me that Carney and his agent have been acting like knobs behind the scenes. Being told that a contract would be negotiated at seasons end and being told it would be rightfully reduced is fine. It all then came down to the fact that Carney's committment to a club is measured in dollars.
Still angry that we got screwed over with the deal though....not good enough.
And apart from media comments...did anyone from the club indicate he was not a part of future plans? This is something the Carney lovers (including Griff), have been playing on.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmaster
ive heard a few times that Miller said something but never seen it personally just heresay and ive heard that Carney was trying to take over the training sessions and some of the squad wernt getting along with him anymore but again thats heresayQuote:
Originally Posted by Jetmaster
There were a couple of comments he made after the Wellington game along the lines of.. It was my idea to change to 442 formation and clearly it worked.. etc. I remember it was in the post match interview with fox
Carney or Miller said that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
Carney.. It was something along the lines of "I've been saying to the manager for a while now we need to move to a 442 and it worked today". Not exact words but I do remember thinking jeez that's a bit outspoken
oh well I guess if any of the other 20 blokes we have on contract want to leave they can, its obvious we are willing to bend over.
ROFL, enjoy the traffic Cabbage.
Leave us the Hotdog cart and don't forget to wear a hat under those bright lights.
Welcome to Football BodyNovo. If you don't want to play somewhere your agent will find a way to get you out of there.Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyNovo
The only problem here is the fact that the FFA doesn't allow transfer fees between clubs. Even a measly $100k would've done.
I really don't see exactly what the club can do in this situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by lquiquer
The power rests with the player who is out of contract soon
Carney has just used his bargaining power well to get what he wanted.
I severely doubt the Jets were even gonna offer him a new deal at all. Even if they did I could see it on reduced coin which obviously was not gonna sit well with Carney
If they waited to end of season and kept him here for 10 more games we have him causing disharmony amongst the group.
If we give him away now for nothing the club cops a pasting on social media from the fans
The club tried to get a player deal in exchange, Reality is I think all they wanted was Hoole to come home.
When he was reluctant or the costs got out of hand they pulled the pin on that plan.
As for taking other Smurfs players. Firstly Arnie is not gonna let us have Dmitrejevic Ninkovic Brosque etc Secondly then you are looking at his squaddies. Why do they want to come here, why do we want to sign them and how much OTT are their wages gonna be.
To me we had **** all bargaining power at all
Smurfs held a little and stood their ground
When midnight struck and he was not let go we had the problem of paying his wages for the next few months with an unhappy camper in the midst
We tried to bluff it wasn't bought we cut our losses salvaged something from the situation and move on.
The club may well have actually got the best deal out of this they could.
As for the clubs comments through the press. It is all bullshit talk anyway. to me the writing was on the wall 2 weeks ago Carney was not wanted and was gonna be on his way and the club has seen this coming and just can't be seen to come out lubricate their arse with vaso bend over and wear it.
Quote in the Herald today saying he was told he WAS part of club's plans but with financial restrictions in place (From FFA i assume), he would have to take a pay cut. This cuts in two ways for me:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetmaster
- FFA: sort us out. This is a joke.
- Carney: Was it only ever about the $$$ for you? I know Footballers need to look after themselves financially, but after last years song and dance, this grates with me a little. After what happened last year with Stubbins, I'm not sure any other clubs would have afforded him the same opportunity. Loyalty is a two-way street.
perfect example for meQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
lewandowski last year of Dortmund contract. Bayern wanted him and they were willing to offer a fee (fair enough Sydney couldn't do this) Dortmund weighed up lewandowskis output against letting him leave for money (so for us its the extra 80k on the books). They decided that they didn't want to benefit a rival and lewandowskis output would be larger on the field then any fee for the last 12 months.
Carney while lazy is our best attacking player, I hate admitting it but its true. He has been involved in 80-90% of our goals. We have basically just admitted to the members and fans that this season is over and thanks for your money.
The club took the fans for a ride as well, telling everyone they were in a position of power.
Not to mention as Borat reminded us, before he came here he was doing sweet FA for 18 months.Quote:
Originally Posted by howardyou
Would love nothing more than to see him do an ACL next week and have to retire.
I'll say it a thousands times if Ihave to. FFA and FFA only are the reasonwhy we are in this mess.
Taking their Members for a ride is in Jerks DNA (lies failure arrogance)Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyNovo
Carney and his agent have acted like mercenaries that much is clear. Eland's comment that 12 months ago Carney insisted the club see out his contract yet then wants to walk when it suits him rings very true. Carney should have negotiated a deal with SFC for next season, as is his right, but played out his contract with us. Instead he snaked around and weaseled his way out of his contract.
But in saying that the club have made major mistakes in my opinion.
First the public statement they made when omitting Carney from the Adelaide game. It was true Carney was not committed and had already negotiated his deal with SFC, but publically to question his professionalism backed us into a corner. There was no turning back from there. The club should have said that Carney was omitted while discussions were ongoing. Simple, short and to the point. Privately what they really thought should have remained private while contracted to the Jets.
The second, of course, is after insisting that we would get a player swap to back down all for 80k is a joke. If the Jets could not get the players they wanted they should have just kept Carney. Instead they strengthen a rival and send a message to every player in the squad and other club that we can pushed around and stripped of our players whenever it suits them. All for 80k. What happens next time when its a younger player we want to keep. If we had of held firm, I beleive Arnie would have made it clearer to Hoole/Naumoff that he was willing to sacrifice them for Carney. Instead Arnie knew we would roll and we did not disappoint.
Can tell you that if Carney was forced to stay his output would sure as shit be a lot less then the $80k he was going to be paid. The bloke is average at best. Signs for a rival that we don't play again this season. Hell he may even keep us off the bottom of the table if he's such the player you keep banging on about. If you're happy to say that David Carney is the highest paid player and best performer at your club then have fun at the bottom of the table for many more years to come. He'll be past his best next season aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by BodyNovo
I do agree with you though that the club has basically waved the white flag this season. I for one am not too upset as I've always reserved my judgement for Miller and co until next season (although this was under the impression we'd at least have an owner by now)