He that good he can't get into a side as bad as oursQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
FFS who keeping him out of the side??
Nordstrand
Haliti
Sawyer
Bymora
None of them are
Call a spade a spade
He just ain't that good
He that good he can't get into a side as bad as oursQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
FFS who keeping him out of the side??
Nordstrand
Haliti
Sawyer
Bymora
None of them are
Call a spade a spade
He just ain't that good
A bloke with a bit of heart would rise to the challenge and prove his critics wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Not just meekily accept it
Read my comment. i was saying that you can't complain about Triff being sold when everyone slagged him off. I don't know if Dunster slagged him off personally so he is entitled to his opinion on that point but the majority of fans didn't like how slow he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
And then i stated that Kokko isn't the biggest problem in our squad. I even wrote that i wouldn't resign him for next year.
FixedQuote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
But you are saying he hasn't had a decent shot at itQuote:
Originally Posted by Frodo
Yes Miller going and Jones coming has hampered him
Injuries haven't helped
BUT
He has had more than enough opportunity to show what he has to offer
He has not had a huge bar to jump based on the calibre of his rivals in the squad
So he has had more than enough of a shot but hasn't delivered
A professional footballer that cannot stay calm under pressure should be playing state league not A-league. If Kokko was any good he'd bang in some goals and say **** you to the coach and anyone that didn't believe in him.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Admittedly the service to him was poor as well and that's not Jones - that's the fact we don't really have anyone in the middle that can hold the ball up or direct play - other than Lei Lei - but few here actually rate the bloke.
Again, fans are making far too many excuses for players that are over paid and failing to produce on the park when it counts.
Jones missed the finals. Miller missed the finals. Both failed in my opinion in their first season. Miller had a huge mid season slump and some decent results at the back half of the year to pull up the table slightly. Jones fell off early with some injuries, had a purple patch to move within the 6 and then fell off horribly at the back half of the year. Yet many were happy to give Miller another year and not Jones? I just don't get this. Are people certain he would have even had us in the 6 at any point during this season? Is it because he could talk the talk? Both coaches were/are pretty sub par when it comes to professionalism anyway. The amateur culture which surrounds the club I feel goes much deeper then just the head coach. I'd love to watch a Jets training session in full compared to a Sydney training session in full. Not just head coach roles, but assistants, players attitudes etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8
Triff > Kokko. Triff took his chance. Put some goals away early. I think we all forget Miller slagged Triff out as well.. Or did we forget that? Triff came out and scored more goals. Imagine if he'd stayed another year and got "adjusted" to the A league like everyone goes on about. Isn't this what people argue about when defending Kokko for the slow start?
Kokko has had more than enough opportunities at this level. Be farked if he gets the whole season to "adapt". We do not have that luxury like other clubs.
Miller came in on the back of Stubbins and no ownership. He also had a mid-season slump which he rectified with two astute signings and pulled the team back in the right direction when needed. Jones has progressively got worse with nothing positive to show as the season wore on, setting some unwanted records in the process. Miller won more games. Miller didn't win us another spoon. You can't see the difference? No-one has ever said Miller was perfect. But he had us on the right track.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
I'm no advocate for Jones or Miller. But what's to say Miller would have done any better than Jones this year (I'm aware we are at the bottom). What's to say Miller would have had us in the 6 midway through last year? Jones had some injuries at the start of the season, made some changes and had us winning games at one point. Who's to say signing Bridge in January or any other signings that may have fallen over behind closed doors wouldn't have seen us do better. I believe this had a large impact on our back half finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
I just feel as if there is so many other factors/what ifs/things that need fixing beyond the coach. Do we change the coach now? and still have the rot in the background? Do we fix the rot and make do with an average coach? I'm just throwing out some other points of view that I think a lot of people are not considering. Something that the member is trying to do in amongst all the other shit he babbles on with.
I'm glad you cleared that up. Here I was thinking the players conceded too many goals in defence and failed to score enough in attack. But it seems that afterall it was Jones fault for all the missed one on one tackles, the wayward passes, and the complete inability of our players to find the back of the net when within scoring range.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
Also, Millers record stands for last season not this season. Unless you think the quality of the opposition has decreased since Millers time ?
No he didn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
Point is none of them have
Both have achieved **** all
Issue is that we need some stability
We needed it when Ledman came in but Miller ****ed it for us by his incompetence
Now we are at the stage where it is imperative that the club backs Jones here
No it's or buts about it
If we can't back Jones now we need a new owner
I hope for god your faith in Jones works out. I cant see anything happening but him getting sacked but If the club backs Jones I hope it works cause I think the club may be on its last chance with a large group of the fansQuote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
**** this, im gonna throw JP in there for some blame. If he had stayed and kept miller in check we wouldnt be having this abortion of a conversation.
Ok, so you're in the 'coach has no responsibility/role' camp. Someone mentioned Jones & Miller both performed the same, I was simply pointing out some differences. And the quality of the comp certainly hasn't increased from last season to this enough to suggest Jones has had a harder gig.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
I believe Miller would have done better. He came in at a difficult time, with no backing, and lifted us off the bottom. He brought some element of competitiveness back. His mid-season signings last year were positive. He signed players this season presumably with an idea in mind of how to play them, and playing wise, pre-season went reasonably well, FFA Cup aside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
The longer Jones was in charge and made his mark on the side, the worse we got. Can someone at least highlight a few of Jones' positives? I'm not even seeing one.
Not at all. You have spent most of the season ripping into Jones and constantly making concessions for the players who at the end of the day are not performing.Quote:
Originally Posted by halo se7en
I don't think Jones is the answer but until we clear out the shit - and it's like 20 players worth of it - why would we bother wasting money on someone else ? No coach will win the comp with this squad.
Hence, keep Jones, do some short term signings / experiments while ridding the roaster of the over paid under performing state leaguers we have on the books.
Not once have I defended the players. I want the off-contract players gone as much as Jones. I simply said Miller would have made a better fist of the squad, but I certainly don't have high hopes for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Fine, let's do this. Doesn't answer the question of who we are going to replace them with because we don't seem to be using money outside the cap and we sure as hell aren't going to get anyone better than the state leaguers we have without doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Let's just face it - we are forever destined to battle it out for bottom of the table with the Mariners because the PFA and FFA have forced a false economy where shit players have to get paid professional wages despite being absolute shit at their jobs.
With your plan were still gambling on Jones being able to A: sign decent players. B: Players wanting to actually play for Jones. C: Jones not losing the dressing room again. D: Jones playing people out of position when players for that role are fit C: Jones actually having more then one tactic for when teams and they will figure us that and stop whatever way we are scoring.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
Do you want me to point out what should be blatantly obvious hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Grimario
A decent player (that we need a shitload of by the way) is not going to come here until we are showing stability
If we sack our coach again we just put ourselves further away from stability. Regardless of who we brought into replace Jones we ain't still going to get the quality we need as no one wants to come to a place that shows no stability
Now if we actually stay loyal to Jones at this time any future prospects we are looking to sign in the next few weeks see we are stable, the owner is backing the manager and we look like a decent outfit
As a result we might actually sign SOME of these players we need
Or we can just sack the coach again and fill the squad with more shite NPL players next season
Five star post buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
Five star post
Everyday I getting one of you guys to see the forest through the trees.
I like the bloke freeing people from the Matrix
How is any of that blatantly obvious? No one other than shit players are going to come here because 60% of the league is paying $30-50k more per player than we are. We could have Jose Mourinho here and no one is coming because we can't afford them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
And you are a joke mate. As if players are going "yes, the club are staying loyal to the worst coach in the league. Absolutely love that idea of stability, better go and play for them".
Living in a fantasy land. Jets are forever doomed for failure until Lee opens up the check book so just get used to eternal disappointment.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
Exactly players will see Hang on his players arnt playing for him what happened there? Players will talk to other players and if Jones did something to get his players offside or has bad man management traits word will get around. Players will also see players playing out of position and might to want to play for a coach who does that or they may see players Like Clut get frozen out and not want to risk that happening to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimario
You watched the Gypos game and your telling me he hasnt lost the dressing room? Explain the lack of effort then?Quote:
Originally Posted by MFKS
What they do for the 90 mins.?? TryQuote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
It ain't like they were not trying out there.
They were well in the game for 30 mins until the first goal came out of nothing really
It also not like it was a one way procession on Duncan's goal. Did he make many saves??
Their ability to execute was lacking emphasised by Raheem smashing a ball back to Newy from 7 yards out by putting it 3 m over the bar.
Effort wasn't at the level I feel is acceptable or directed in areas I think are needed but it is there
No they don'tQuote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
They don't sit around worrying about why Devante Clut isn't playing as the only people who do that are you and to a lesser extent Devante. The reason for this is Devante is a nobody in the HAL
As for this word getting around. He hasn't stolen from a charity bin, he hasn't been caught with his pants around his ankles and he hasn't stolen Christmas.
Other players in the world of football don't sit around all day analysing the failings of Newcastle Jets FC
They base their opinion of a coach by his abilities to make them at ease and express their vision for them at the club when they doing the sell
Everyone in the world realises this. Maybe you need to look outside the console games to realise this
We have the money to get decent players hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Grimario
We just waste it over paying them
Boogaard
BK
Hoffman
Mullen
Hoole
Kantarovski
Poljak
Etc.
Whatever we paying them is actually too much for ability/ performance
Not one of them deserves above minimum wage and I backing they all on more than it
That where we can improve out of sight.
Stop paying shit players big money
If management don't start with the big broom from the top down by firstly giving us an experienced coach then we're already doomed to another season of failure, because time and again the lack of ambition and acceptance of mediocrity by backing the likes of Jones, Stubbins or even GVE has nailed the coffin lid firmly shut for seasons and we've remained in the hole.
And seeing as this debate has been muddled the comparison of Miller to Jones when it has nothing to do with Miller and everything to do with Jones not showing any due cause to be given anything more than a 'thanks for trying, don't let the door hit ya on the way out', Miller was obviously a better man manager because at the very least he got more out of the same basic group of players when it counted (i.e. against the Gyppos). Even Jones's golden children don't look like they want to play for him anymore, will that seriously change if we give him more experienced players who still come to the same conclusion that he isn't good enough to bring tactical and formation changes midgame that can make a difference?
The Jones experiment has failed miserably, had he been any good he could have brought an average bunch of players to the brink of first round of finals football (shit, that's barely an achievement, the Gyppos did it for years by making a bunch of numpties actually play together as a team, and they're still doing it better than us FFS with arguably a lesser squad, and even when at the foot of the table they still looked like they were having a go), but instead he's got them firmly rooted at the foot of the table - I'm sorry, but that is F-A-I-L-U-R-E and should not be tolerated, if Lee is serious he will start with a recognised coach and build from there, particularly if his talk of ACL ambitions is anything more than empty rhetoric...
Experienced coach is a necessity??
We did have a championship winning coach and he couldn't fix our issues
So your point is what,??
GVE inherited a dream squad, managed despite his incompetence to get us over the line, then showed he wasn't very good and yet we re-employed him for a second time, it's that lack of ambition and moronic attitude (that was probably what happens when you let someone like Tinkler call the shots) that have kept us at the brink of collapse for years...
how much more failure can we accept before someone calls a halt to this and relegates the team to the same status as Newcastle United and Breakers?? we can't keep expecting everyone to keep the faith when there is no hope on the horizon, just more pain and suffering from this team...
No. We don't want to be signing anyone for anything more than a year until we have totally cleaned all the shit from the roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by StannyCFCJET
If Jones is allowed to actually sign any players for more than a year the shit won't end - it's just goes on longer.
Next season is a complete write off - we shouldn't be making any effort at all to buy players other than to meet the minimum requirements of the league.
One the crap is off contract and we can build a complete squad - then the money gets thrown around and we look to replace Jones.
I wouldn't have signed Georgevski for example. He's a good footballer and all but he's not going to be able to show his value surrounded by this team. Instead he will get to the end of his contract and simply move on. Result being we paid a lot of money for him but were unable to utilise him to his potential - It won't be any different to when Milligan was here.
They can't afford to write off another season.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dunster
They need to spend money. In fact, by spending only the minimum this year enables them to spend that little bit extra over the salary cap next year. This gives us potential to mitigate the effect of overs we have paid some players to be here.
They need to start taking decisive actions. Either come out and support the current manager.. or signal their intent by announcing their search for a manager. Move the deadwood on and sign some real quality.
Striker/am = marquee
Centre mid = marquee
A play for milos from Sydney would be a good start. If we can somehow snare a Castro type player. FBK on a 1 yr contract (under the cap) and we are looking 10 times better already.
Players that we should be looking at are guys like burns, spiranovic. Club needs to make a statement. Players will join if they see other quality individuals at the club. End of.
Spot on and Jones was his assistant then time to have a clean out of all coaching staff and start again with an experienced manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8
These two comments are it in a nutshell. Whatever the plan is. Make it and stick to it. We've tried every armchair expert opinion under the sun and it hasn't worked. Whether it's stick with Jones or someone new, make the decision now and everyone deal with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by rhysd
Make some big signings. Raise the overall quality/expectation of the playing group.
I dare say they'll do this next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilso8948
bravo well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojetfireV8
all our problems started with GVE and the influence he has had, on the jets and Northern.
MJ was his assistant, enough said.......
FFS just saw a Jets fan on facey share a screen shot of a msg he sent Nabbout after I assume the derby where he says Heads up you boys did well last night. FFS some of our fans have been beaten down to accept mediocrity. How can this fan belive they did well??