Have a closer look at how this model is structured and you will see it is very poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
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Have a closer look at how this model is structured and you will see it is very poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Anyone have a link to a summary of the structure?
Why is it poor...Victoria's NPL output is arguably the best in the country?
Found this just now...relevant from page 49 (they play 33 games all up, 11 for grading purposes, and then a season of 22 games in their relevant tier)...importantly, the gradings are by team...so if there is a good team in a weak club, they are not punished (and vice versa)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegon
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1IZH...7JVR2uYGp/view
I think the issue is volunteers, ground availability and players playing multiple games. Imagine Newcastle Olympic with their U16s in Coffs Harbour, their U15s at Weston, their U14s at home and their U13s at Blacksmiths, all playing on the same day in three different divisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Plus the way Northern does it is the same way Sydney does it
I'm just suggesting it's a better (and fairer) way then the way Sydney does it, too, one that lets teams find their appropriate level...what you mentioned are just inconveniences really and could be managed, as obviously happens in Victoria already
Probably more volunteers in Victoria.
Probably also don't have teams as far away as North Coast and Northern Inland.
Murray United - Woodonga, Gippsland United - Gippsland, Goulburn Valley - Bendigo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reds Forever
Geelong pulled out due to travel and having teams play at different areas of the state. You also have Mornington that is an hour from the city
Gippsland to Geelong is 5 hours
Gippsland to Goulburn valley 6 hours
Gippsland to Bendigo 6 hours
Bendigo to City 2 hours
Gippsland to City 4 hours
Woodonga to City 3.5 hours
Woodonga to Geelong 4 hours
Woodonga to Gippsland 5.5 hours
Does anyone know how NIAS are now linked with Wallsend?Their club name comes up as NIAS/Wallsend on the draw.
Seems there is an issue with the Victorian model then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swanky
Yes, NIAS were unable to provide an u18s and Wallsend could. Essentially, Wallsend are NIAS for the club championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Is that the reason they pulled out, genuinely curious where they posted this? :)
Those travel distances are the same if the entire club has to travel or 1 team though...I've not noticed large entourage's of club people at games so far
Nothing wrong with that if you have half a brain. Parents run their kids to a different ground. Big deal, wheres the hardship?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Only difference is you dont prance around before and after the other grades. And have enough kids for each grade in case you aren't together.
If you cant handle that youre a precious knob.
No need for insults, but please tell me how parents can run kids from Weston to Coffs when the game is on the same day?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldy
Please tell me how club can host game days when most clubs rely on parents to run canteens and other duties to host games day when they are all at different grounds and ferrying their kids around.
Is that any different if you had a couple of kids in different clubs? (Or a kid in YNPL and another in SAP) @Taffy
(Another possibility, maybe, Coffs Harbour shouldn't be in our league...I have to travel up there later this year, I don't really want to :P )
who has reported that? everyone in vic says its broken - lots of Newcastle peeps go to Victorian NPL to play senior football which would make me think that the youth aren't competing in that space for senior spots..Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Not an insult. You are a crybaby who loses the plot when things need a bit of thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Clubs make it work. Parents have a brain and can make it work.
We have cars and spend money on useless crap everyday this is easily doable.
Maybe you also need to grow up and not pretend that every thing is too hard.
They go there, and then find they are not up to speed �� then typically come back to play regularly in our NPL
We have friends who left a tier 1 club here to specifically go play youth NPL in Victoria (they've been much happier)
First graders are paid a lot more in Victoria...hence the attempts to go there...also reflects better in your player CV
With more insults. I noticed you didn't answer my question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldy
Also you should actually read my comments before having a tantrum, I gave possible reasons why Northern followed the Sydney model.
Should be mandatory for all clubs to publish their youth and SAP/JDL fees in advance of the next season, the number of training sessions as well, etc...let consumers know what they are "buying"Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
That proposal has been put to NNSWF in the past and they have declined the opportunity to do it. It would be a great initiative.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
If parents want to know they can always ask and clubs generally tell players when they provide the offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
Bit late for some when they get “the offer”.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
Have heard clubs doing the ol’ “pay now or next on the list gets your spot”.
But yeh, most should be able to give you a run down pre-trial if you can get in contact with the right person.
Making it available would be the easiest thing for everyone tbh.
Maybe a good way for some “lesser” clubs to get in some good youth.
They don't have to accept the offer. And they can always ask, if the club refuses to say tell them they train two nights a week on Monday and Thursday, total fee is $1,000 and that training starts in November then their refusal is all you need to know about the club and leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bremsstrahlung
Potentially, that parents are happy to take their kids to Magic and remain there for $1,600/year for JDL means they probably don't care about all that.Quote:
But yeh, most should be able to give you a run down pre-trial if you can get in contact with the right person.
Making it available would be the easiest thing for everyone tbh.
Maybe a good way for some ?lesser? clubs to get in some good youth.
Coaches and TD's love nothing more than parents putting requirements on clubs before their easily replaceable kid will accept.The offer is the offer,the price is the price.Parents dont get a say.Im not saying whether thats fair or not,but thats the way it is.
Premier Youth League Prices for this season, that I am aware of, (I have simply asked people whose kids play at the clubs or club officials) range from $950 (including clothing) to $2200 (including clothing). Training regimes range from twice a week, to 5 nights per fortnight to 3 nights per week, although twice per week is the norm. Some clubs started in the last quarter of last year and some came back after Xmas. Some clubs include gym visits and tailored pre season programmes (this was the cheapest club). Most include Veo recordings available for review. All offer C licence coaches.
Clothing packages ranged from match day and training kits plus tracksuits, club shirt and spray jackets, to match day kit and club shirt only.
Surprisingly, the cheapest club offered the most in clothing, pre season programme and gym visits, They also provide at no cost wet weather training on artificial pitches.
Overall, the range of costs is not, in my opinion, justified by what is offered. The overall experience is not that different from club to club.
Some will argue that you get better coaches at the "bigger" clubs, but are they? Or do they just benefit from the better kids being there? I have seen some very poor coaches at NPL and some great ones in NL1. Far harder to coach less talented players.
Is it really that bad to ask what days training will be and how much is rego?Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
No,not at all.My point is that parents who want something different from what the club is offering are in for a very short conversation,especially if they want to criticize where the money goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
As a parent of a current NPL youth player,who came through JDL and has many many friends who have done the same, I can guarantee you first hand that the experience is way different from club to club.I agree with you that being at the best club doesnt always provide the best coach,or the best facilities,or the best opportunites.But a lot of kids and parents will sacrifice that stuff for short term gains (wins).I also agree that NL1 has some fantastic players,coaches and clubs.I would recommend anyone that isnt happy at their current situation to explore every available opportunity as there is a wide range of options out there.I think threads like these can be important for anyone out there who is at a good club to advertise it and promote it.If that then drives players,coaches and sponsors their way then thats a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
That's interesting. I have had one son in an NPL club (a strong one) and one at a NL1 club and I have coached premiership winning teams at both levels. I'm still coaching in the PYL today. The clubs I have been involved with personally did things much the same way in regards to gear, training etc, etc. The only real difference was that the NL1 clubs that I have been involved with showed greater overall interest in the kids than the NPL club. Retention based on loyalty also stronger in the NL1 clubs from my experience. Of course, I can't speak for all clubs but when it comes to the amount of training, clothing/gear, qualified coaches etc, but I don't see how there can be a huge difference in the way they do things day to day.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Perhaps it is attitude of the clubs that is the big variation??
I guess the point I am making is that what you get for $2200 is not $1250 better than what you get for $950. If one club can do it for that amount, so can others.
Thats what I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Probably true more interest for Div 2 teams in their kids the Div 1 teams know they can just get another good player so who cares. Why they can also charge twice as much because people will pay it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
Wonder if you could draw a link between the fee differences, and the success of their first graders
Fees funding that success, parents attracted to that success also helping justify the higher prices, believing, often incorrectly, that there is a link between between the levels...then, as above, attracting the better kids means you're more likely to win games, and winning can easily be mistaken for development of course.
(I admit, it's why I chose our first SAP club...thinking 1st grade success meant developmental success along the chain)
I think this is a really good way to look at it.Another 5-10 years and you will also be able to see how many kids make it all the way through to senior football from JDL.It will be interesting to see if clubs get the benefit of the finished product of if recruiting will always trump development.Quote:
Originally Posted by WOW2.0
That comes down to the club ethos really if they keep them. But across the board how many come through JDL and Youth to be playing 1st grade at any club. Plenty of clubs develop players but will always favour a ready now reserve grade player over an 18yo who will be ready in 2 years. But the current JDL product the first kids are only in U14, do need to wait a few more years to see that cohort no longer able to play youth. Same with the PYL, really need to give it 5 years to see if it is good for the game or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by sapdad
Some interesting match ups. Not sure about individual community teams and so the club they come up against all get through to Round 2. But then again NIAS., Wallsend and Charlestown all aren't fielding full teams either. So whoever gets them go through to Round 2 in those age groups.
Ive found generally that the lower the club the more emphasis on creating a nice environment for the player this is mainly for player retention & club longevity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter403
exceptions maybe Cooks Hill New Lambton but lets see how their % retention goes now they are in top division.
No club is perfect and all go through periods of decline at some point.
From the clubs i know around 85% of JDL kids are playing PYL or NL1 from the 1st 2 years of full JDL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Taffy
In the top division single Club youth development is mainly a myth.
A large majority change clubs once or more between 9s to 16s. Being cut, moving house, hating coaches, following coaches, disgruntled parents, losing interest, joining mates, stupid rego fees, injury, not being valued shows how easy it is to make a move elsewhere.
These kids develop from several clubs and filter into the system like they always have.
By the 16s clubs will take just about anyone just to fill the squads.
In fact anyone who stays at the same JDL PYL NPL club would be unique.
As far as skill level goes, IMO the technical level is definitely better than the past but not sure about about physical athletic level which may have been better in decades past.