BK and Free Kicks

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25-02-2015, 10:28 AM
BodyNovo

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.
25-02-2015, 10:44 AM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pv4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGs5wA-8gXI

3:15 onwards, just found it.

Cheers
25-02-2015, 10:53 AM
Jeterpool

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodyNovo

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

This for me
25-02-2015, 10:59 AM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pv4

I feel like I've answered how relevant comparing the two is about 3 times now.

And for what it's worth, there is a possibility it is even more relevant in the fact that Biraz is still contracted to us for next season, so very well could be back playing for us again - and having forms of comparisons for when this arises can't be a bad thing.

I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.

But the question was how is a comparison between birraz and bk freekick conceding stats relevant to BK's positioning at free kicks? There are far to many variables over the course of 2 and 1/2 seasons and within each situation, to suggest it's an indicator of poor positioning alone. You can't simplify things so much.

When the next free kick happens, if bk is in the right spot, or the wrong spot, this has nothing to do with birraz, or whether he's conceeded more or less than him.
25-02-2015, 11:08 AM
pv4

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

I don't think your three attempts got close, because you're answering a question not being asked.

If the question was how is a birraz v bk comparison I free kicks goals conceeded relevant to who should be our first choice, I'll take your explanation.

This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.
25-02-2015, 11:11 AM
MFKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by BodyNovo

i can't believe this has got 8 pages of nonsense

it was a ****in pearler of a free kick end off.

I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.
25-02-2015, 11:24 AM
GazFish35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?
25-02-2015, 11:32 AM
BodyNovo

Quote:

Originally Posted by MFKS

I can the foz takes the Jets Goal Keeper role quite seriously.

wish the we would discuss the 10 other shit blokes just as much.
25-02-2015, 11:40 AM
pv4

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

Heya, he found one!!
25-02-2015, 11:56 AM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pv4

Heya, he found one!!

Should start a thread about it I guess.
25-02-2015, 12:02 PM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pv4

This was the context that MFAW brought the stats up in, what he asked, what you deflected from (or misinterpreted?) , and what I'm answering.

No one from what I've seen has attempted to compare the positioning of BK vs Biraz, or anything like that. We're talking about the amount of goals conceded from the type of free kicks that kickstarted this entire thread. We use the statz to get the indication to how common the issue is, to figure out how much of an issue it'll be in the future.

I have zero idea why/how you took it out of context.

There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,
25-02-2015, 12:10 PM
De-Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

So if my memory says birraz only ever faced one, and bk faced 18, we can take it as fact.

This stats argument isn't about a bk v birraz debate. I'm defending all keepers, there's way too many variables in any freekick to simplify it so much.

The fact that people are ready to ignore birraz' Bosnar brainsnap is shows this.
If all the variables arent going to be considered in each case, this one can't be written off either. The way you dismiss the Goodwin freekick past janjetavic as "nearly a corner" is another example of too many variables to simplify multiple seasons on simply the result.

If we do this, let's just look at goals against and decide the best keeper in the world in 1993 was me as I only conceeded 2 goals in 26 games. It's not accurate analysis and cheapens the work keepers do.

I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.
25-02-2015, 12:26 PM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by De-Champ

I am not a keeper, I have however played as a keeper on two occasions, and did not conceed a goal. Therefore I am better than you. The best.

Wear the badge with honour
25-02-2015, 12:27 PM
pv4

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

There was no mention of birraz till the good member raised his stats.
This discussion at the time was about keeper positioning, not who should be first choice, it's in this context that the members stats were put forward.

My argument re these stats hasn't changed, 1. that they are too simplified an analysis to have any meaning in the context of the discussion in which they were raised, and that a comparison of two keepers "goals conceded" isn't relevant to the ability of either keeper.

No deflecting. Actually trying to keep the discussion on topic, which was bk and freekicks,

Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.
25-02-2015, 12:31 PM
GazFish35

Quote:

Originally Posted by pv4

Yeah... nah. MFAW posted his memory stats without quoting anyone about it, said solely that they were damning stats for BK, and even went to the lengths afterwards to pose the question on whether the indicated Biraz was better at freekicks of BK just had bad luck facing up against good kicks. Anyway, we've done this thing to death.

Interesting to read that you think goals conceded is not a relevant indication to the ability of a keeper - I tend to think it goes some length to helping us understand it, particularly if you want to use it in the context of two keepers in the same league, in the same team, against roughly the same level of opposition. I'll think about this one further. I don't think you can just disregard goals conceded when considering the ability of a keeper, like you've said.

Then just say 4 goals in bugger all appearances is damning, not that 4 when compared to birraz is damning.

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.
25-02-2015, 12:37 PM
pv4

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

Why not?
Because if you want to simply compare the outcome, (a goal) it's not an accurate measure as there are countless variables that contribute to it other than just keeper ability.

I'm not advocating a disregard of the goals against column, I'm advocating a far greater depth of analysis is needed.

OK, now we're thinking along the same lines.

The way you wrote it, it seemed you were saying completely disregard it.
25-02-2015, 12:55 PM
plague

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkR9-r9NYU

Does this indicate anything about BK's ability?

Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?
25-02-2015, 02:17 PM
De-Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by GazFish35

Wear the badge with honour

I'd like to but to be honest I "hated" being in goals.
25-02-2015, 02:52 PM
MFKS

Quote:

Originally Posted by plague

Ok Member, that's 2 to Biraz, 4 to BK yeah?

BK is still a shit keeper and leading :sup:
25-02-2015, 03:29 PM
Jetmaster

What a **** thread, can't be bothered reading back as I full know what the context will be.

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