Grassroots Football

[plague]

No, it only helps the clubs with SAP build.

Be clear about that. Everyone else is left out in the cold. It is very hard to develop juniors when you know they are going to leave for something you can not offer.

Our club may only play in the Zone League, but I cant remember the last time a junior came through to play in our squad because they are all taken away from the club by the SAP and NPL systems leaving us with very few teams over the age of 12.

Makes it hard to build when Juniors are lured away.

absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.





*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

[plague]

Does that kick back continue back to the clubs that originally had the kids, before the SAP programs took them in?

for sure, id even love it if somehow the club where the kid first started got the best deal out of the lot. because without that first step there is nothing. it should be rewarded.

[sammydog]

absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.

however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.

*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

Which club is the non NPL/NL1 SAP club?

I agree the best kids will always seek out the big teams/clubs. But is the current set up makes it near on impossible to offer anything to compete.

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.

I realise that even if we had SAP, kids would look for the best club they could, but I also know we would be able to retain and develop a high number of our own players. And yes, the best of these would obviously end up playing NPL or NL1 and that's fine, but some would also flow into our senior system.

[plague]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

oh for sure.
its like the club that preached loyalty at every single meeting last season only to cut 6/18 kids from their SAP squad after year 1.
the hypocrisy makes me giggle too dont worry.

[The Dunster]

absolutely fair point.
but what do you do about it?

because you already have clubs running SAP programs making noise that a certain couple of clubs are trying to poach their better players to bolster their squads.

however we want to look at it, the kids with the highest ambitions will always want to be at the clubs with the biggest ambitions.

there is one club doing SAP that is not in NPL that has a well laid out plan to get to NPL and succeed. they have done well in SAP and are hell bent on playing with the 'big boys' within 5-10 years.

you might have to ask yourself does your club have the same ambitions? because if not you cant blame anyone for walking away to the bigger shinier thing. its what we all do in life with work, partners, houses. its how humans are wired these days.

so do you go full on into 'ambition mode' in the hope of getting the kids in to kick start a revolution, or do you wait til you have the players then apply for the big show?
unfortunately, for clubs run by a lot of hard working volunteers, with limited resources the answer isnt so simple.

it wouldnt shock me if in the foreseeable future clubs merge or disappear*. Football is completely different from what is was 10 years ago, as it was 50 years before that. and it will be different again 20 years from now.





*the club i stated with no longer exists, its sad, but thats life i guess.

Nothings changed in 50 years Plague. It's still the same shit fight off field it always was - only the actors names have changed.
Technical skill of kids is way better. Physically / athletically definitely going backwards on average. Best kids - pretty much the same allowing for equipment, surface changes and doping.
WHich is another question ? At what age is it appropriate to start the kids on a cycle ? Or is that something people don't want to talk about ?

[plague]

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.

and this is the best news out of all of it and i can only hope that NNSW lets you plead your case.
because there have been changes since year 1. so why cant there be more?
i actually have faith that NNSW is trying to do the 'right' thing by everyone. Its understandable why they drew lines in the sand to begin with.
hopefully there are people involved that have the ability to adjust it along to the way to make the program even better.

but yeah its football......so ummm yeah.

[plague]

At what age is it appropriate to start the kids on a cycle ? Or is that something people don't want to talk about ?

ive had Plague Jnr on Alberto Contador branded meat products since birth.

[The Dunster]

ive had Plague Jnr on Alberto Contador branded meat products since birth.

Couldn't think of a finer role model. Well done.

[rawr.]

one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

The first grassroots club that they played for does get a kick back - ie. Hoole (I think?) and Maryland Fletcher FC

[MFKS]

Yeah part of taking this sort of development away from 'third party' set ups and into the hands of clubs is that if the clubs play it right they will have good quality kids making up the bulk of their future 1st grade squads. the very best of them will go higher, but this is also a club building exercise.

one thing id also love to see in the future is some sort of kickback to the junior clubs of kids that do 'make it'.
even if its not a huge amount, imagine a kid making the Jets squad and a little bit of money either from the FFA or A-League club goes back to the club where he/she started.

Like transfer fees like we have everywhere else in the world??

The FFA have abolished them from Oz football thanks to the way they allow the game to be operated

It about time they allowed NPL clubs to sell players to HAL clubs and get compensated adequately for it not have what happened to Apia this year when the Gypos poached their gun player just as the business end of the NPL season arrived

They got peanuts for him leaving and it probably cost them both Minor and Major crowns in the NPL

[plague]

Like transfer fees like we have everywhere else in the world??

The FFA have abolished them from Oz football thanks to the way they allow the game to be operated

Totally agree.
Would love the new regime to tick off on it, and cant see why the clubs (who now run the game) wouldn't want it too.

[Retired01]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.

This Club is discussed right through most teams who did SAP last year from kids attitudes and coaches to aggressive tactics used to win games. Supposedly a lot of disgruntled parents inside that club too
In addition there is now a certain third party moving to that Club which has caused more friction.

Such a shame for the kids but if my son was good enough to be there I may have a different opinion.

[dan]

Can confirm that is the case sadly Retired01.
I know this probably isn’t the thread to ask this, but it seems to be filled with people who care about the kids development. But Wallsend has one spot left in the U9’s and 4-6 spots in the U10’s if anyone knows of any kids who are committed and coachable. Anyone who saw us around this year knows we put fun and development above results at this age. We have 3 girls in the U9’s so far and with our WPL it’s a great pathway for the young ladies.
Email me if anyone is interested in more info: youth@wallsendfc.com.au
As I mentioned in a previous post our rego for new players is $650 (that includes everything), which must be close to one of the cheaper regos in SAP.

[Negative Police]

Northerns SAP rego fees are $367.50 per kid straight off the bat.
Then clubs incorporate kits, their own council fees for the one night they train at their local ground etc & you can see how it adds up quite quickly.

Oh crap. Well that clears that up. Any reason why this much?

[Negative Police]

But these clubs have no issues with poaching players from clubs further down the ladder. The numbers of emails we get from SAP clubs asking us to promote their trials and send players over is amazing.

They cant have it both ways.



Which club is the non NPL/NL1 SAP club?

I agree the best kids will always seek out the big teams/clubs. But is the current set up makes it near on impossible to offer anything to compete.

We are in no danger of folding or needing to merge. Overall our junior numbers are on the rise, but it is an increase in the younger mini-roos we are seeing. Hanging onto them is the major issue. The club has a plan in place to continue our growth and we have aspirations to be a lot more than we currently are. The first thing is to try and stem the bleeding of juniors.

We know that from our U8's last season, 8 of the players have been confirmed in SAP programs for next year. Thats great that we have players developing to that point, but I would prefer to be able to offer to keep them at the club.

I realise that even if we had SAP, kids would look for the best club they could, but I also know we would be able to retain and develop a high number of our own players. And yes, the best of these would obviously end up playing NPL or NL1 and that's fine, but some would also flow into our senior system.

So you would be happy with u9 - u12 SAP teams. Cant see why zpl couldnt put 1 team in if they get the $$ and criteria. I suppose zl1 would then miss out and so on.

[Negative Police]

oh for sure.
its like the club that preached loyalty at every single meeting last season only to cut 6/18 kids from their SAP squad after year 1.
the hypocrisy makes me giggle too dont worry.

Yeah no good. I'd rather be at a smaller club with a solid group that stays for a longer term. Im sure they would develop to compete with the big boys.

One down side is the sway bigger clubs can have with getting their lads into reaching the next level. Like Dunst said. People in high places have good mates.

[dan]

That amount includes things such as rego, use of speers point facility to train once a week, their TD’s which over see training & give clubs a training schedule each week, a training ball among other things. I don’t have the paperwork in front of me at the moment sorry

[sammydog]

So you would be happy with u9 - u12 SAP teams. Cant see why zpl couldnt put 1 team in if they get the $$ and criteria. I suppose zl1 would then miss out and so on.

yes, I would be more than happy with U9-U12 knowing that some of these kids would end up at NPL/NL1 level, but that we would be retaining others to feed into our seniors.

At the end of the day, as a lot of others have noted, SAP will raise the level of coaches and their qualification and I see no reason why we couldn't manage such a program.

[Retired01]

Can confirm that is the case sadly Retired01.
I know this probably isn’t the thread to ask this, but it seems to be filled with people who care about the kids development. But Wallsend has one spot left in the U9’s and 4-6 spots in the U10’s if anyone knows of any kids who are committed and coachable. Anyone who saw us around this year knows we put fun and development above results at this age. We have 3 girls in the U9’s so far and with our WPL it’s a great pathway for the young ladies.
Email me if anyone is interested in more info: youth@wallsendfc.com.au
As I mentioned in a previous post our rego for new players is $650 (that includes everything), which must be close to one of the cheaper regos in SAP.

The lack of players is an issue across a few clubs with some only going to put 1 team in next season. I think that is a very good idea and well done to those clubs.
There simply aren't enough good players around to fill all the positions and I do now completely agree that all clubs shouldn't get offered SAP licenses.

[Goatscheese]

Not going to improve on the talent if the options for development aren't there for as many as possible.