Idiots

[GazFish35]

Knights fans accept mediocrity more readily?

It might have to do with the NRL being the works best version of their sport, so simply being on the paddock you are one of the best, where as jets fans know we are watching something that is not the best it can be as we see so much higher standard play on TV.

It could be that a larger percentage of jets fans play the game, where as rugby league being such a he au impact sport many of the crowd either haven't played it, or no longer play it, so are are more able to admie the blokes, where as we all reckon "I could have hit the target" or "I could have made that pass" or " I would have dived for that shot"..... Basically it's easier for jets fans to put ourselves in the players position and relate to it.

And..... Tech club has been over-promising and under-delivering for nearly 8 years, our patience is worn out. Maybe the knights PR are better at managing expectations.



Who knows?
Maybe MFKS does.

[Jeterpool]

Why is it though that Knights fans have a far greater admiration and respect for their players than the Jets fans do for theirs ?

It's very rare to hear Knights fans criticise one of their players let alone boo them during a game.

For Jets fans booing players and constantly criticising them is common and pretty much considered acceptable.

I bring your attention to Darius Boyd. They are VERY critical of him.

[GazFish35]

Individual errors are also more glaringly obvious in football as opposed to league whee a missed tackle is often the result of three players making an error rather than one. If a winger were to drop the ball, I'm pretty sure he'd get his fair share of negative feedback.

[The Dunster]

I bring your attention to Darius Boyd. They are VERY critical of him.

Boyd is on top dollar and as such expectations should be high. But there is no way he cops anywhere near the abuse players like Gallaway or Brown have from the Jets fans.

Jets fans boo a player like Brown or Gallaway because he's not at the same level as players from Barcelona being paid tens of millions of dollars.

So, I wouldn't say Boyd is a good example.

[GazFish35]

You're not hoping for an answer that follows any sort of logic are you?

[Jeterpool]

Boyd is on top dollar and as such expectations should be high. But there is no way he cops anywhere near the abuse players like Gallaway or Brown have from the Jets fans.

Jets fans boo a player like Brown or Gallaway because he's not at the same level as players from Barcelona being paid tens of millions of dollars.

So, I wouldn't say Boyd is a good example.

just trying to give an example. honestly I don't attend or follow League so I can't tell.

[MFKS]

I think the big difference is that we are more passionate about our sport. Lets face it we analyse everything about our club and game and as a result we have all differing opinions that we are passionate about.

[boz-monaut]

also that our sport actually lends itself to analysis, whereas in rugby league, winning is all about being stupider and running at each other harder and faster

plus shitting on each other, being sexual with dogs, glassing girlfriends and being shown on Channel 9

[parksey]

Why is it though that Knights fans have a far greater admiration and respect for their players than the Jets fans do for theirs ?

It's very rare to hear Knights fans criticise one of their players let alone boo them during a game.

For Jets fans booing players and constantly criticising them is common and pretty much considered acceptable.

because the knights actually make the finals on a semi-regular basis

[la bazzle]

Because Gallaway is rubbish

[plague]

Why is it though that Knights fans have a far greater admiration and respect for their players than the Jets fans do for theirs ?

It's very rare to hear Knights fans criticise one of their players let alone boo them during a game.

For Jets fans booing players and constantly criticising them is common and pretty much considered acceptable.

Great question.
My thoughts:
1. Knights players are far more identifiable and accessible than Jets players. Knights players seem to be in "team gear" in social settings making them stand out. Go to your Junctions etc and there will be a bunch of Jets lads there but no one would know them. Whether this is team policy or Knights players wanting people to know who they are i dont know. Branding (both team and personal) is a big point of todays sporting market, and I think the NRL, individual clubs and player managers clue the players in better.
2. In general NRL players stay here longer than Jets players, so have a longer time to 'bond' with the community. Nothing can be done here because as alluded to elsewhere there is a higher level to go to if you are any good at soccer. Apart from Heskey, Bridges and Griff you could say Taggart and Beard were the highest profile players for us last year, and now they are gone. If they were exciting young NRL talent they would be here for another 10 years, we are likely to never see those blokes ever again.
3. Updating instagram stuff for my companies site today my feed was flooded with people posting pics from the Knights game, yes it was a one off event but people looked really proud to be there. The other thing that stood out was the amount of photos fans had with players (obviously taken pre-game, Uate was the one most featured) i can only assume people have hit him us as he entered the ground/did his warm up. it is a simple thing to stop for 5 seconds to make a fans day but other than Tarek i dont remember any Jets players being this active with the fans esp on game day.
4. Parkseys point is spot on. Knights were one game from the grand final last year, we havent been anywhere near the semis in ages.
5. no one likes a big head. our previous coach and to a lesser extent GM have never come across as having any care for the fans or community in general. whether thats true or not i dont know, and the rumoured HSG black ban on certain media groups didnt help anyone. but surely it cant be hard to make yourself more available and at least attempt to sound legit when dealing with us.
Ive said it before but (and i have no real time for the sport) but V8 drivers are the best at promoting their sport in the country by far. their use of all media types is amazing for what is really a niche sport. Footy codes could really learn from those blokes.

[plague]

one more thing, and this is not a dig at you Hauss but it was in regard to one of your previous posts when discussing the club behaving in a superficial manner (which i agree with).
The problem is, resorting to mission statements and sets of values is probably the most superficial thing you can do as a business. yes, its widely accepted but in the cold light of day they mean absolutely nothing. if you need to have a special set of words to try and tell people you are going to be honest and ethical etc then you've already failed. actions speak louder than words, and as stated its a widely accepted practice but id rather our club start doing things rather than talking about 'what they stand for'.

reminds me of GVE's "high possession high intensity football", he talked and talked and talked about it but in reality we were rubbish and he got the ass.
proofs in the pudding.

[hausmann]

one more thing, and this is not a dig at you Hauss but it was in regard to one of your previous posts when discussing the club behaving in a superficial manner (which i agree with).
The problem is, resorting to mission statements and sets of values is probably the most superficial thing you can do as a business. yes, its widely accepted but in the cold light of day they mean absolutely nothing. if you need to have a special set of words to try and tell people you are going to be honest and ethical etc then you've already failed. actions speak louder than words, and as stated its a widely accepted practice but id rather our club start doing things rather than talking about 'what they stand for'.

reminds me of GVE's "high possession high intensity football", he talked and talked and talked about it but in reality we were rubbish and he got the ass.
proofs in the pudding.

Sure, a set of corporate values are useless if they do not reflect reality. If they are just some kind of wish list that someone dreams up and wants to indoctrinate employees with. But what we are talking about here are values that have an impact. Live these values and things will be great. Don't live them and people will grumble.

I can point specifically to the value of Humility as one which a lot of people in football (both within the club and supporters) may not consider important for their own behaviour but they expect it from others. When you point out that humility is important to the success of the club, it can help people understand why they are getting the shits with each other. A lot of people say "the club doesn't listen", but why don't they listen? and why should you have a problem with them not listening, returning emails etc, etc,? There have been disagreements in the Squadron in the past about how it was run. Eg. Some people were saying the capo was arrogant, others defended him. If you have a set of values you can use them to examine the situation. Is everyone acting with humility, teamwork etc.

If I can make myself clear, I didn't just make up these values, they are the values that people actually want from the club. They are what people cry out for when they get the shits with the Jets over various things. And they are the values which will lead to a successful club if the club begins to realise how important they are in their daily work. You say actions speak louder than words but as you point out with the way GVE operated, sometimes the actions are wrong. If you personally don't want to know why the way he operated caused so many problems, that's fine, but people who make decisions about these things should want to know it.

Plague, you can say the same thing about anything. What's the point of a To Do list if I don't use it? What's the point of a set of instructions if I don't follow it?

The point of a set of values in that they can be pointed to when examining what is sick in a culture, and they can be pointed to when one party is not following them. I'm sure that the Jets have a football community capable of pointing out to the club and each other which values are not being upheld. People do it anyway, but they just say things like "The club doesn't listen" when what they mean is "That arrogant prick doesn't answer my emails" ie. he is not humble and doesn't treat people with respect, or they complain about the club's goal for the season of "getting into the top six". They are complaining that the club is lacking in ambition, which is a value they want the club to have.

You say that if you need to have a special set of words then you've already failed. But what if we get a new CEO, or a new Owner and they are coming into the club blind? All the supporters are still the same and what they expect from the club will still be evaluated by the same values. If they have a set of values that tell them "this is what our supporters expect from us" then it gives them a headstart, and we don't have to go around banging our heads against brick walls until they finally "get it". ie how would you feel about a new CEO coming in and saying "we are the ManU of the A-League" as happened at Sydney FC. I personally would hate it because such a statement lacks humility, it's a prideful boast. We are our own club.

I've heard many people say "The people of Newcastle want a team who play for OUR TOWN and give their all on the pitch" or "People just want to see a team that WINS". People within the club start to believe this is true and such Mission statements have no impact on how, for example, the marketing person evaluates the piece she has just written for Membership renewals. This isn't the full story by any means and if that is what the coach or CEO thinks is the total picture, then they are going to make a lot of mistakes and will be bemused at the reactions of people. People want the whole package, not just effort or results: IMO they want humility, effort, ambition, respect and teamwork.

[The Dunster]

I have t-shirts older than Parksey. Pretty sure he doesn't remember watching the Knights when ex lakes players such as Jack [Greg]Hayward and Steve Walters, to name a few were in the team. The rest of the team consisted of essentially unknown kiwis such as Sammy Stewart and Tony Kemp.

Back then the Knights were battlers and far from being competitive - but they still managed to draw massive crowds.

Like it or not the Knights fan base is far more loyal and accepting that ours.

[MFKS]

I have t-shirts older than Parksey. Pretty sure he doesn't remember watching the Knights when ex lakes players such as Jack [Greg]Hayward and Steve Walters, to name a few were in the team. The rest of the team consisted of essentially unknown kiwis such as Sammy Stewart and Tony Kemp.

Back then the Knights were battlers and far from being competitive - but they still managed to draw massive crowds.

Like it or not the Knights fan base is far more loyal and accepting that ours.

Those days are long gone.

Back in those days you were on TV Saturday arvo at 3pm on the ABC and occasionally on Sunday night at 10pm.
None of the rest of the games were shown on TV so if you wanted to watch you had to go.

Add in at that stage Newy had very little presence in any big scale comp so the novelty factor was there.

Times have changed and if the Knights had a period of success like say the Melburn Storm have had in the last 6-8 years I still don't think they are getting more than 20-25k and not the 30k crowds they once did

[plague]

Hauss, I have no problem with clubs having values.
I just want those values communicated directly from boss to employee (coach to player if you will).
I don't want Gary from marketing having anything to do with them.

It's my personal opinion that if you need reminding to be honest, humble and act with integrity then I'm worried as these values are basic human nature.
You said it yourself that the football crowd is savvy, we recognise effort/humility etc when we see it. Brings me back to the point about Tarek, he probably personified those values better than anyone we've ever had, and I'd bet it was because that's who he is, rather than reading about them in the clubs bio.
As stated, I wasn't having a go at you and totally understand why corporations use them (wife works in corporate world), I just fear for mankind when we need to produce written statements saying that we are going to try our best not to be complete shitcunce.

[hausmann]

Hauss, I have no problem with clubs having values.
I just want those values communicated directly from boss to employee (coach to player if you will).
I don't want Gary from marketing having anything to do with them.

It's my personal opinion that if you need reminding to be honest, humble and act with integrity then I'm worried as these values are basic human nature.
You said it yourself that the football crowd is savvy, we recognise effort/humility etc when we see it. Brings me back to the point about Tarek, he probably personified those values better than anyone we've ever had, and I'd bet it was because that's who he is, rather than reading about them in the clubs bio.
As stated, I wasn't having a go at you and totally understand why corporations use them (wife works in corporate world), I just fear for mankind when we need to produce written statements saying that we are going to try our best not to be complete shitcunce.

I think the writing of values goes back to the 10 commandments, if not further. It's because people are forgetful and tend to be selfish. So I would fear if people didn't write them down or remind themselves in some way.

[plague]

I think the writing of values goes back to the 10 commandments

Shame they didn't say "thou shalt not rape alter boys".
Might have saved the church a bit of bother.
Maybe you're onto something with these values mate!!!

[hausmann]

Shame they didn't say "thou shalt not rape alter boys".
Might have saved the church a bit of bother.
Maybe you're onto something with these values mate!!!

Well I'm a Catholic and know good priests as well as people who have been abused by paedophiles, some suicided. It's not really an issue I'd make a joke about but you are right to a certain extent. You don't have to be a theologian to understand how precious children are to Jesus so such crimes are totally abhorrent and inexplicable.

[The Dunster]

that whooshing sound was all credibility rushing out the door.