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Thread: The A-League Expansion Thread

  1. #201
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopper2 View Post
    We need to be inclusive if we want the game to grow and achieve it's potential, treating established clubs like outcasts is not good for the game to grow and be united.
    Except for the fact we just spent 10 years running as far away from the past as we could and it seems to be working ok.

    It seems the only viable way you'll get your football utopia is with a hashtag, candlelight vigil of Facebook filter.

    Good luck.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    It seems the only viable way you'll get your football utopia is with a hashtag, candlelight vigil of Facebook filter.

    Good luck.
    Football utopia is already here. There wont be domination in aus as the other codes are too well entrenched and thats ok.

    I find that attaining an acceptance on an equal level with our other national sports (not there yet) and a having a restspectable "international" accliamed comp is all I ever needed.

    oh and I want a world cup win

  3. #203
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk View Post
    Football utopia is already here. There wont be domination in aus as the other codes are too well entrenched and thats ok.
    I think some people on here's idea of utopia won't eventuate until some club your great grand pappy told you about and their 3,000 fans stand side by side with your plastics/mongs etc.

    Can't wait for that day, sounds ace.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    Except for the fact we just spent 10 years running as far away from the past as we could and it seems to be working ok.

    It seems the only viable way you'll get your football utopia is with a hashtag, candlelight vigil of Facebook filter.

    Good luck.
    Yeah running away from the past for much of those 10 years but there is a change in the air brought about by the FFA Cup where the divide of "old soccer" and "new football" is being narrowed.
    Mate, I couldn't be bothered arguing with you but if you really think that clubs like South Melbourne or Sydney United shouldn't be part of a proposed 2nd Tier competition down the track then you really shows you aren't up to speed with the general mood in the football community whether it's people like Bozza and Simon Hill in the media or your average Joe Blow expressing his views on social media.
    Good luck to you too.

  5. #205
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopper2 View Post
    Yeah running away from the past for much of those 10 years but there is a change in the air brought about by the FFA Cup where the divide of "old soccer" and "new football" is being narrowed.
    Mate, I couldn't be bothered arguing with you but if you really think that clubs like South Melbourne or Sydney United shouldn't be part of a proposed 2nd Tier competition down the track then you really shows you aren't up to speed with the general mood in the football community whether it's people like Bozza and Simon Hill in the media or your average Joe Blow expressing his views on social media.
    Good luck to you too.
    OK i have some discussion points.
    I didnt start the A-League, some very clever people did and their formula, whilst not perfect, seems to be heading in the right direction. My opinion was formed by listening to the people who started (and ran) the league for the first 10 years. Simon Hill, Bozza etc all have their hopes and dreams and good on them. but people like that 'wishing' for something versus the statements of people who actually manage the game in the country would definitely point to my way of thinking rather than yours.

    also, im fine with people from old clubs being involved in new football. if they ditch the flags, the badge, the colours, the name and team up with a few other like minded clubs they could probably put a viable franchise proposal forward. If you think those old clubs can stand alone, let alone have the infrastructure and capital to even get up to A-League standard then I'm reading different reports to you. Again happy to be educated on this but you're not really providing me the relevant resources.

    Also, the love fest that is the FFA cup is rigged deliberately to get a non A-League club to the semis. If everyone is on an even playing field you think any of these cubs are get within a bulls roar of the established clubs?

    Also, to your last point, and sorry but im gonna have to call you out for telling fibs here. I looked up the twitter account of @joeblow and he has no opinion on the state of football in Australia in fact all he seems to do is tag a company called 'karmaloop' in the hope of getting some "free gear".

    You can check his account here.

    speak soon.

    Cheers,
    Plague.
    Last edited by plague; 18-10-2016 at 08:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    OK i have some discussion points.
    I didnt start the A-League, some very clever people did and their formula, whilst not perfect, seems to be heading in the right direction. My opinion was formed by listening to the people who started (and ran) the league for the first 10 years. Simon Hill, Bozza etc all have their hopes and dreams and good on them. but people like that 'wishing' for something versus the statements of people who actually manage the game in the country would definitely point to my way of thinking rather than yours.

    also, im fine with people from old clubs being involved in new football. if they ditch the flags, the badge, the colours, the name and team up with a few other like minded clubs they could probably put a viable franchise proposal forward. If you think those old clubs can stand alone, let alone have the infrastructure and capital to even get up to A-League standard then I'm reading different reports to you. Again happy to be educated on this but you're not really providing me the relevant resources.

    Also, the love fest that is the FFA cup is rigged deliberately to get a non A-League club to the semis. If everyone is on an even playing field you think any of these cubs are get within a bulls roar of the established clubs?

    Also, to your last point, and sorry but im gonna have to call you out for telling fibs here. I looked up the twitter account of @joeblow and he has no opinion on the state of football in Australia in fact all he seems to do is tag a company called 'karmaloop' in the hope of getting some "free gear".

    You can check his account here.

    speak soon.

    Cheers,
    Plague.
    Wow. Agreed.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    OK i have some discussion points.
    I didnt start the A-League, some very clever people did and their formula, whilst not perfect, seems to be heading in the right direction. My opinion was formed by listening to the people who started (and ran) the league for the first 10 years. Simon Hill, Bozza etc all have their hopes and dreams and good on them. but people like that 'wishing' for something versus the statements of people who actually manage the game in the country would definitely point to my way of thinking rather than yours.

    also, im fine with people from old clubs being involved in new football. if they ditch the flags, the badge, the colours, the name and team up with a few other like minded clubs they could probably put a viable franchise proposal forward. If you think those old clubs can stand alone, let alone have the infrastructure and capital to even get up to A-League standard then I'm reading different reports to you. Again happy to be educated on this but you're not really providing me the relevant resources.

    Also, the love fest that is the FFA cup is rigged deliberately to get a non A-League club to the semis. If everyone is on an even playing field you think any of these cubs are get within a bulls roar of the established clubs?

    Also, to your last point, and sorry but im gonna have to call you out for telling fibs here. I looked up the twitter account of @joeblow and he has no opinion on the state of football in Australia in fact all he seems to do is tag a company called 'karmaloop' in the hope of getting some "free gear".

    You can check his account here.

    speak soon.

    Cheers,
    Plague.
    Mate you were the one who stated that there is no place for the "established" clubs in the A-League 2nd Division, I simply disagreed as there has been enough "us and them" mentality and then in your reply you go off on some typical BS rant clouding the issue.
    Lets just watch this space then hey....lets see which clubs make up the 2nd Division. I bet you it will be bona fide existing clubs too not some plastic franchise or as you have hited; amalgamations (now that is laughable....imagine Melb Knights and Sth Melbourne ha ha)

    A 2nd Division won't be happening within 3 years minimum, probably closer to 5 and even then I'd say it will be a few years again before there is any promotion/relegation. The FFA's main priority (and rightly so) is to get 12 or even 14 sustainable clubs in the A-League first. Now are we in agreeance with this?

  8. #208
    Senior Member lquiquer's Avatar
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    I think we all want 2nd division promotion / relegation, but no one knows which way to do it.... every angle u look at it and there are huge walls to climb: incorporating existing state league clubs or creating / renaming 10 to 12 new franchise being the biggest question. Then comes sustainability hurdles ......
    Dare to Zlatan

    Originally Posted by Grimario

    He won't make that mistake at Newcastle since our team is full of number 2's.

  9. #209
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopper2 View Post
    Mate you were the one who stated that there is no place for the "established" clubs in the A-League 2nd Division, I simply disagreed as there has been enough "us and them" mentality and then in your reply you go off on some typical BS rant clouding the issue.
    Lets just watch this space then hey....lets see which clubs make up the 2nd Division. I bet you it will be bona fide existing clubs too not some plastic franchise or as you have hited; amalgamations (now that is laughable....imagine Melb Knights and Sth Melbourne ha ha)

    A 2nd Division won't be happening within 3 years minimum, probably closer to 5 and even then I'd say it will be a few years again before there is any promotion/relegation. The FFA's main priority (and rightly so) is to get 12 or even 14 sustainable clubs in the A-League first. Now are we in agreeance with this?
    oh stopper, what are we gonna do with you?
    firstly, read the posts. then don't get so worked up. You did the same with Hawk. 'us vs them'? where did you get that one from?
    All im trying to do is explain the FFA's position to you and point out that i have no reason to doubt they would veer away from that blueprint.
    if you're having trouble seeing that then theres not much more i can do for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  10. #210
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    Many NPL clubs already operate on budgets of $200K +, with a bit of national exposure and the incentive of promotion (why spend more now when you're at the ceiling with no extra sponsorship $$ etc) they could easily sustain $1M in a second division.

    I think its naive to assume that these clubs wouldn't know how to be viable in that environment when many have been doing it for 70 odd years.

    The nature of an open system is that those that can't survive or are run poorly, ala Portsmouth or Blackpool, are removed and replaced by better run enterprises.

    If the Jets can't deal with that despite our sugar daddy and substantial local support then we have no right to demand a place in the top tier.

  11. #211
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    Some people need to read the thread as to why clubs like South Melbourne and Sydney United would find it hard.....it isn't about business nous, money or capacity to field a competitive team.

    It is perception of the general sporting public and media to these clubs. One chant of "Hellas" at Middle Park would wipe everything.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetmaster View Post
    Some people need to read the thread as to why clubs like South Melbourne and Sydney United would find it hard.....it isn't about business nous, money or capacity to field a competitive team.

    It is perception of the general sporting public and media to these clubs. One chant of "Hellas" at Middle Park would wipe everything.
    True, there are NPL teams around that would definitely be looked at in a favourable light to go into a second division, but it would be because they are in a favourable location and are not mono ethnic. Wollongong Wolves and Sutherland Sharks are an example of a team that could realistically go straight into a second division. Gold Coast City, FNQ Heat and NQ Fury as well as the Strikers and maybe Western Pride in Qld. Even Dandenong Thunder in Vic as that area's population is expanding like the Campbelltown/Macarthur area of Sydney

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetmaster View Post
    Some people need to read the thread as to why clubs like South Melbourne and Sydney United would find it hard.....it isn't about business nous, money or capacity to field a competitive team.

    It is perception of the general sporting public and media to these clubs. One chant of "Hellas" at Middle Park would wipe everything.
    The FFA Cup is popular notwithstanding the strong ethnic links to many of the games.

    We should celebrate our diversity, we're not living in the 60s anymore.

    FFS Dandenong Thunder is an ethnic club

    P/R should be decided on the pitch, with a South Korean style criteria to ensure that clubs that do go up have the facilities. Like it or not most of the clubs at the moment who do are ones which has ethnic roots. If they're good enough and have the backing, then they deserve to go up - regardless of any racist opinions otherwise

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Camel View Post
    True, there are NPL teams around that would definitely be looked at in a favourable light to go into a second division, but it would be because they are in a favourable location and are not mono ethnic. Wollongong Wolves and Sutherland Sharks are an example of a team that could realistically go straight into a second division. Gold Coast City, FNQ Heat and NQ Fury as well as the Strikers and maybe Western Pride in Qld. Even Dandenong Thunder in Vic as that area's population is expanding like the Campbelltown/Macarthur area of Sydney
    Dandenong is ethnic ffs

    We don't want a 2nd division of Mariners-esque teams....

  15. #215
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Many NPL clubs already operate on budgets of $200K +, with a bit of national exposure and the incentive of promotion (why spend more now when you're at the ceiling with no extra sponsorship $$ etc) they could easily sustain $1M in a second division.

    I think its naive to assume that these clubs wouldn't know how to be viable in that environment when many have been doing it for 70 odd years.

    So the model A-league club everyone points to (Victory) has an operating budget of about $18.5m.
    You now expect these local teams to magically muscle in on the corporate/fan dollar in Melbourne (competing with not only established A-league clubs but also AFL/Rugby League teams that can give a company much bigger exposure) in order to even be remotely competitive?
    Ok.



    Add to that compliance costs/licence fees (which the FFA WILL be charging to enter) and you are talking an astronomical increase in the size of their business.


    So no, it's not being naive, it's being realistic.


    Also, and this relates to my man stopper, can someone point me to the articles relating to South Melbourne etc wanting to be in the A-League 'as' South Melbourne?
    Because all I can see is a very different tact (which is kind of what I've been saying anyway).

    But yeah, hit me up.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    So the model A-league club everyone points to (Victory) has an operating budget of about $18.5m.
    You now expect these local teams to magically muscle in on the corporate/fan dollar in Melbourne (competing with not only established A-league clubs but also AFL/Rugby League teams that can give a company much bigger exposure) in order to even be remotely competitive?
    Ok.



    Add to that compliance costs/licence fees (which the FFA WILL be charging to enter) and you are talking an astronomical increase in the size of their business.


    So no, it's not being naive, it's being realistic.


    Also, and this relates to my man stopper, can someone point me to the articles relating to South Melbourne etc wanting to be in the A-League 'as' South Melbourne?
    Because all I can see is a very different tact (which is kind of what I've been saying anyway).

    But yeah, hit me up.
    Is a second division always on par financially with the top flight? FMD

    Are championship clubs spending the same as EPL clubs?

    Why do 2nd division teams need to operate on an $18M budget? Do the Jets or Mariners?

    With TV money of $5M(?) or so if they're promoted to the HAL, why wouldn't the 2nd division teams be competitive?

  17. #217
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    Furthermore, why disregard these clubs purely because of their heritage in favour of non-existent clubs like Canberra etc?

    Its less of a jump for them than compared to a completely new set up FFS

  18. #218
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    regardless of any racist opinions otherwise
    Oh man oh man oh man.

    There it is ladies and gentlemen.

    Congrats sir.

  19. #219
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Is a second division always on par financially with the top flight? FMD

    Are championship clubs spending the same as EPL clubs?

    Why do 2nd division teams need to operate on an $18M budget? Do the Jets or Mariners?

    With TV money of $5M(?) or so if they're promoted to the HAL, why wouldn't the 2nd division teams be competitive?
    Because from year two when the first A-League team goes down everyone in the 2nd div will be outspent.

    You guys are telling me the 2nd div is there to get teams into the A-League aren't you?

    Well wouldnt they have to be better than A-league level teams to get there?

    and of course they wouldn't be spending $18.5m in div 2. but they sure as hell won't be spend $1m either. Even if it's half, isn't the jump from $1m to 6,7,8 or 9 still a big jump?

    (Obviously not for zillionaires like Hawk).

    Actually it just seems like we have very differing opinions on what this 2nd div should look like.

    Why don't you jot me down some points on what you expect it to be to help out.

  20. #220
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAM View Post
    Furthermore, why disregard these clubs purely because of their heritage in favour of non-existent clubs like Canberra etc?

    Its less of a jump for them than compared to a completely new set up FFS
    Again, because it's the blueprint of the damn league.

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