And coach, I reckon Gary still fancies another crack.Originally Posted by plague
And coach, I reckon Gary still fancies another crack.
Same as what happens in the Championship.
The players are offloaded in favour of cheaper ones from the NPL, often the offloaded players go to promoted clubs.
Bigger clubs, ala Juventus or Newcastle Utd retain the players from the 1st division and have more of a chance of being promoted straight back up.
It happens in 99% of leagues in the world, only us and the US are the exceptions.
Villareal is from a town of 50,000 and play Champions league regularly enough.
If you're good enough, you're big enough.
If a HAL club can sustain its spending on relegation and get promoted back then so what? This is what happens all over the world. Look at when Juventus were relegated but retained most of their squad.
1. The Knights own their stadium - they only need small crowds of about 4000+ to be solvent.
2. Licence fees shouldn't apply imo, or if they have to, then it should be vastly reduced for a second tier competition. Say $500K.
3. Because these clubs have done it before, most have the know how and its sink or swim. If a club can't do it (which happens from time to time around the world) then another will step into their place - ala Portsmouth and Blackpool and Rangers and et al
4. The figures were based upon what I was hearing about the new deal. If its say $2.5M now, that a lot of wages covered straight up. Most of the clubs have their own stadiums so each how game becomes a profit making exercise in terms of gate and food even with small crowds. Corporate sponsorship would easily reach $500K-$1M conservatively, when they have national exposure and FTA+ Fox TV exposure. The reality is that regional clubs will struggle, but that's the challenge for us. We have to be better run than clubs from bigger centres - reality of life.
Yeah but it is the main centre of a small province of near 600,000 people. Comparing Devonport in Tassie to Villareal is no like for like.
Its the 2nd division. The requirements should not be as stringent as that of the HAL. You could delay promotion for say 2-3 years and include conditional promotion based upon a facilities criteria ala South Korea as well. There are options. But the reality is that most of these clubs have half decent facilities already, and given the incentive to, may be able to improve upon them in due course.
HAL clubs are not profitable for the most part due to have to lease stadia and lose income streams from the sale of food/drinks. Most of the 2nd tier clubs I have put forward do not have this issue. Yes they are not world class venues, but they are less of a solvency risk than most HAL teams - a Jets fan should be acutely aware of this....
Really? Tassie is what 500,000 and if they had one team to support in the HAL wouldn't it be semi-comparable? I'm not suggesting for a moment that Devonport or South Hobart are going to be regularly playing ACL or even HAL finals, but they do have a broader supporter base opportunity than a mere 30,000.
Geographical size difference is massive. Devonport to Hobart is 3 1/2 drive. You drive that long From anywhere in Spain and your talking half the country. If you have a Tassie team it has to be in Hobart which has 220k and roughly half the population. Anywhere else and there is no point. Place is much bigger than people think
turnovers reduce dropping divisions yes of course, im not that naïve
but they wouldn't be dropping over 80% as what some people suggest going from current a league turnovers of around $6mil to 2nd division with a turnover of $1mil
ok, so now you get what I'm saying, and you seem to agree.
Lets move on, theres more to unpack.
Will a 2nd div increase Tv $$$? 2 extra teams in aleague probs will.
At some point we will have a tier 2 comp.
I think a few of those that are ready for a hit at the 2nd level and thus be pushing for a tilt in the HAL will need to re-brand a little as well as commit to criteria.
ok lets do this one at a time.
1. But is it A-League standard? Lighting/seating etc? Id actually have no problem if 2nd div clubs had lower compliance standards but once they hit the big time they need to play at an A-League level stadium (hence getting a big lease etc). So they are gonna need way more than 4000 crowds to be solvent. You think they can get the numbers? How do they get them? Because everyone wants them to 'stay the same' yet as they are they are getting 4000.
2. I don't think licence fees should apply either once promo/relegation starts, but the simple fact is the existing clubs have paid big big money to join in and then go on to lose even more. To then have new clubs turn up and get an easier ride in doesnt sit well with me either. The 2nd div doesnt get off the ground without the approval of the existing clubs, so they are gonna want to see these new clubs pony up as well.
3. So you want the clubs to operate as is, then if they make the big time 'then' they have to be compliant? What if they can't? You want court cases and appeals? Look at the farce the local comp has agreeing on a compliance standard. Im saying get a rock solid compliance standard from day one (which means these smaller clubs WILL have to finance facilities etc) well before they see the money come back in. and if then never go up how are they ever going to pay the bills?
4. OK, heres my big big problem with a lot of you guys. You are throwing figures around which are such pie in the sky its not funny.
In Spain, the 2nd div gets 10% of the TV money to spread between their teams.
In England the Championship teams get approx 5% of the TV money compared to the EPL sides. Even using the best case scenario that the 2nd div even gets a TV deal you are looking at somewhere between $125k - $250k. Even double that and its still bugger all. and you guys are always mentioning South Melbourne and Melb Knights, but what about team 10-12 on that list? Who are they and why would the want to be part of it. Remember when the first A-League TV deal was being bandied around SBS offered to show the games but the FFA had to pay the production costs. Yes it was going to COST the FFA money to run the games, let alone actually derive any income from them.
yet you think the TV networks are gonna say "oh sweet, heres a bunch of money and airtime for Melbourne Knights v North Queensland Fury".
So heres what im reading you guys think is plausible.
Clubs join the 2nd div.
Clubs pay a licence fee.
Clubs pay significant money up front to get stadiums compliant.
From season 2 clubs will always be up against a former A-League team that will have a significant financial advantage over them.
Why would a club want to be part of that?
It sounds like a sure fire road to ruin for most of them.
And I know you guys are all like 'sink or swim' 'thats life' 'too bad' etc, but sorry but thats a shitty attitude when you on one hand are trying to grow the game, but then are more than happy for these clubs to go broke.
I think a lot of you on here have a very romantic idea of how football could be in Australia. I wish it was too, but the simple fact is you aren't dealing in reality.
Whoever was talking about Japans 100 year plan had the right idea, because its gonna take a shitload of time and money, and at the moment it aint here.
Continually thinking the failures of the past will somehow be the way of the future astounds me.
Last edited by plague; 20-10-2016 at 01:02 PM.
Team who comes first in div 2 vs team who comes last in div one over two legs. Winner plays next season in div one and loser in div 2. Just a thought
Question around salary cap.
You would think the salary cap would be much higher in the a-league than the 2nd div. So what happens when a team comes up, get much bigger salary cap sign players to multi-year deals then get relegated?
as much as i like this, and it fits into the aussie "finals" type history, it would seem a bit unfair that a full strength A-League level squad goes up against an inferior team. Winning promotion means they 2nd div club gets up to A-League level with players etc.
parachute payements and relegation clauses in contracts.
theyre common place.
an EPL team gets booted, they get some money to soften the blow and cover costs such as you raised, and a smart club would have clauses that either terminate a players contract if the club is relegated, or the wage is severely diminished.
from memory, among other things, not having relegation clauses in players contracts is one reason why Leeds have never really come back from being relegated.
no, the salary cap would have to be much less based on the difference in FFA grant/tv money/general revenue.
from my understanding a lot of players O/S have release clauses in their contracts activated by relegation. This would probably be win/win as the club doesnt have to pay higher wages.
the bigger issue is with support staff/club employees who may be surplus to requirements in the 2nd div. good luck being the person who has to sack someone for no fault of their own.
I'm guessing when a 2nd div comes in a lot of contracts would then have clauses based around relegation, either to end the contract early or change the salary accordingly.
I was in Tasmania last year, on a driving holiday.
Devonport isn't that far from Launceston, being a major centre with a considerable catchment area.
If any event, South Hobart is prob the only TAS team capable atm of having the facilities etc of competing nationally.
yep - happens all over the world
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