Why are we in this predicament?

[Jetmaster]

I think the time has come to really identify (and find out) what the problem in this club is. In most posts over the last few month so many reasons/excuses have been put forward.

* The coaching staff
* The CEO/HSG/Tinks
* Lack of money
* The pitch
* Quality of the squad
* Fitness
* The FFA
* Foxtel schedules
* Etc etc etc

What I am now seeing is a huge endemic problem in the club as a whole, with individuals being affected as a result. Take our playing squad - overall, on paper, it looks strong, with players who have good track records in the A-League and overseas and we have a number of internationals. Our coach - had a high profile and solid credentials, was also lauded initially for his man management skills.

If this group was transplanted into either Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane it would perform definitely better than now. Similarly, if you put the entire Melbourne Victory squad in the Jets environment for any length of time it would deteriorate. Every player we seem to sign doesn't live up to expectations and those that are surplus to requirements get a second wind elsewhere. The problem in this club is entirely down to its upper level management, lack of money and inherent culture. That has been the problem since 2005. We have had two dodgy owners who cut costs where possible and we are now paying the price for not keeping up. The salary cap covers the basics but we do not have the other resources to match the other clubs.

We have no marquee players now whatsoever, we have a low budget coaching staff a fraction of the size of others and have little coverage in the way of sports science, psychology and diet. Our players train like the in the old NSL days - at MV for example, the squad turns up for breakfast, trains, has a lunch time break and trains again later in the day. They spend the whole day as a squad. Our players are obviously not as fit, or as mobile, as these guys. Anywhere money could be spent is cut - it doesn't even look like our pitch resurface has been done at top dollar.

At the top level there are major problems - we let guys like Goodwin, Chapman and Rubes go to free up salary space for Paartalu etc. That really worked didn't it? Like the Culina fiasco there was no due diligence. The ownership issue is taking its toll no matter what the players say. This is where FFA needs to step in, take over from Tinks and then resell - anyone dealing directly with Tinkler will be pissed off no end.

All of these top level issues are cascading down through the whole club culturally. The coach appears to get no support and does what he can, the players are struggling with confidence and fitness and some want out, the fans are getting impatient for some sort of success. A sale seems no closer, the FFA seem disinterested with the Asian Cup coming up. What is of no doubt, though many in Syd/Melb can't see it, is that Newcastle is a football market that will go gangbusters once they get it right. We pulled a crowd of nearly 10,000 yesterday, at 5pm on a work day, coming second last - which other club could do that (without whinging about the time slot)? We get bigger crowds than the team coming first ! The 2007-08 and Ken Edwards periods showed what the club is capable of, regular 20,000 attendances, The FFA needs to get Newcastle right.

What do you guys think - we can bag Stubbs, BK, Welsh, Galloway all we like - they are not the problem but a result of the problem.

What is that one true underlying problem, and how do we fix it - long term??? What, as major stakeholders, can we do ??

[R Ramjet]

On Dec 8 there was an article in the herald where RM said every part of the club would be reviewed. It was after 9 rounds when we still had no wins (maybe someone can post the RM quote) What did they come up with ? Did they even care enough to bother ? Im a long time jets fan and did my first membership this season and ive been to every home game this season. For a team to play as bad as we do so often this season its not bad luck or things not going our way. Its the way the club is run from the top, the management is where it all begins. RM has to go and whoever is part of his team has to go its time to go no more bullsh*t. Bringing in a new coach or new players will change nothing. Surely RM must feel like an absolute useless d*ckhead knowing he is the one at the top of these results. The football loving jets fans who part with their hard earned to go and support the players despite our useless management, we are the ones who are getting screwed over and ive had enough. Something needs to be done. Changes are needed now no more BULLSH*T

[Thomas477]

Honestly, I think it's a club culture. For too long we've been happy to accept mediocrity. For me, the culture starts at the top, with the ceo. I don't buy the whole money excuse because the new TV deal covers the entire cap as far as I know. Throw in the income from merchandise, memberships, ticket sales and other sponsorships and it has to be more than the costs for stadium hire, Ray watt hire and other salaries. There has to be enough $$$ coming in to cover that. I doubt the FFA would let Tinks skim off the top.

Blame Tinkler all you want, but Middleby has to be the one running the company. The ceo needs to be the one that sets the culture. If he was really serious, he'd be telling the coach, whoever it is, that only training for 4x 2hr sessions is a joke for a professional league. Ffs, NBN sides train 3x a week, many juniors 2x. We need to get a ceo who expects and demands us to be winning every game. This will then permeate down to the playing and coaching staff. At the moment, Middleby seems quite happy for us to chug along, just happy to compete. This is then rubbing off on the playing and coaching staff, who apart from a few, seem quite happy to collect a pay check and not compete.

Look at the successful clubs recently:
SYD - signed Arnie and showed a bit of ambition
VIC - signed Ange and splashed cash for Berisha
Nux - signed Merrick and Burns
Perf - bought some top quality players, not too sure on the coach, but it's working.
Pissants - all but changed their club culture after that Dutch guy.

All these club's CEOs have shown ambition to come out and try to actively change the club or be successful. Middleby hasn't done anything like that.

For me, the following needs to occur:
1) New, experienced CEO installed who wants to make the club successful

2) Clean out some of the back room staff, don't know much, but a broom is needed

3) Coaching staff and physio sacked and ambitious coaches hired. Fitness has been poor all year, Birraz and BK have glaring weaknesses in their game but Young hasn't worked on it with them (love Youngy though), Physio is doing something wrong (5 knee injuries at 1 time is a bit dodge), Bridges is a waste of space, Stubbs isnt cut out for the top job, Zane is still vastly too inexperienced to coach at the top level (maybe get him to learn off an experienced coach instead of a joker like Stubbs)

4) Massive clean out of the playing staff. Ffs, Virgilli is a forward and hasn't scored in 55-56 games now! Welsh is a state leaguer, nothing more. Kanta and Regz are far too inconsistent. Carney is a lazy ****er. Montano, Griff and Hoole are the only ones giving a ****. Another major issue for us is that our ball speed is slower than you see in an o/35s game. Watch MV, BR, AU, PG. Once they get the ball, they transition incredibly quickly, we take 5 minutes to go forward. It was the same under GvE and Stubbs hasn't change it.

[Couscous]

As everyone knows, coaches are not sacked until a certain number of threads (let's call that number T) are created per day to discuss the club's coaching crisis.

To determine T, we must also know the number of fans who want the coach to be sacked: that is, the fans' mood. Let's call the number of fans F and the fans' mood F_m. If no fans want the coach to be sacked, F_m = 1; if half of the fans want the coach to go, F_m = 0.5; if all fans want to coach out, F_m = 0. Oh, and research has shown that one must standardise the equation using the Couscous constant (C_c = 0.84, subject to experimental error of ±0.05).

T = C_c (F ^ F_m)

So what's this mean? Let's say the Jets have 15,000 fans and 60% of them want Stubbins to be sacked (i.e. F_m = 0.4). In this case, T = 0.84 x (15,000 ^ 0.4), or T = 37 to 41 threads per day. However, if fans became more angry (80% wanted Stubbins out, or F_m = 0.2), then T = 0.84 x (15,000 ^ 0.2), or T = 7 threads per day.

How many threads per day are we at at the moment?

[redwah]

cash!!!!!!!!!

[plague]

We are in this predicament because of Biraz........or BK...........or both.
No need to look any further than that.

[plague]

Actually to expand further:
At the beginning of this season I was pretty much promised a new look team on the field, and an invite to one of SD's pool days.

Neither has eventuated.

Disgrace all round IMO.

[hawk]

Honestly, I think it's a club culture. For too long we've been happy to accept mediocrity.

Weve never been happy with mediocrity but forced to endure it. The appearence of acceptence it is a way to rationalise our continued support.

Imagine if ticket prices were more expensive.

Because of our position our supporters are clearly the best in Aus and should be thanked individually by the supply of free beverages

[GazFish35]

Thomas has made some good points but I'm not sold on the "money isn't the issue"

We are apparently 1.8million in debt so ticket sales sponsorship and merchandise isn't paying the bills, and mush of the other points raised require money to fix.

A new CEO with business acumen and a football fan, not a player trying to be a businessman would be key. Along with a board of directors not just a CEO and a few heads of departments. The club needs stronger links to the business community of the hunter, get a board comprising of well connected businessmen in to help turn the ship around. We've been hamstrung for more than ten years by having an owner that business in newcastle don't really want to do business with. Tjis would help ensure what little money do have is used efficiently and revenue streams start to increase.

Stubbins looks like as stunned mullet and is drowning. I liked the fact we went with a gamble, and reckon it was the cheaper option, but it clearly hasn't worked.


It's all talk and no action, and the holding pattern we are in is a large reason why. If tinkler cared, or was still even pretending to care rm and ps would be gone by now.


Oh, and the next "we need your support" plea from the club needs to actually be "we can't thank you enough for your level of support so far, it's been far above any leel we actually deserve" some sort of acknowledgement that they've been a showr of shit and re damn lucky so many are still sticking by them.

[Jetmaster]

As everyone knows, coaches are not sacked until a certain number of threads (let's call that number T) are created per day to discuss the club's coaching crisis.

To determine T, we must also know the number of fans who want the coach to be sacked: that is, the fans' mood. Let's call the number of fans F and the fans' mood F_m. If no fans want the coach to be sacked, F_m = 1; if half of the fans want the coach to go, F_m = 0.5; if all fans want to coach out, F_m = 0. Oh, and research has shown that one must standardise the equation using the Couscous constant (C_c = 0.84, subject to experimental error of ±0.05).

T = C_c (F ^ F_m)

So what's this mean? Let's say the Jets have 15,000 fans and 60% of them want Stubbins to be sacked (i.e. F_m = 0.4). In this case, T = 0.84 x (15,000 ^ 0.4), or T = 37 to 41 threads per day. However, if fans became more angry (80% wanted Stubbins out, or F_m = 0.2), then T = 0.84 x (15,000 ^ 0.2), or T = 7 threads per day.

How many threads per day are we at at the moment?

Answer the question plz.

[Thomas477]

Thomas has made some good points but I'm not sold on the "money isn't the issue"

We are apparently 1.8million in debt so ticket sales sponsorship and merchandise isn't paying the bills, and mush of the other points raised require money to fix.

A new CEO with business acumen and a football fan, not a player trying to be a businessman would be key. Along with a board of directors not just a CEO and a few heads of departments. The club needs stronger links to the business community of the hunter, get a board comprising of well connected businessmen in to help turn the ship around. We've been hamstrung for more than ten years by having an owner that business in newcastle don't really want to do business with. Tjis would help ensure what little money do have is used efficiently and revenue streams start to increase.

Totally agree wrt to the businessman ceo, that's my biggest issue with Robbie. Tbh, I don't even care if they like football or not, if they're good enough, that's fine with me, just like Gallop. I didn't know we were that far in the red, but again I think it comes back to the CEO. If your target is 10k members, then that should be going close to breaking even for your stadium hire IMO. Unless it's just some arbitrary number. Actually, does anyone know the ground number we need to break even on game days?

And Hawk, I've seen a lot of people saying "at least they tried" etc. that's where that comment came from.

[GazFish35]

PLZ wasn't in his equation.

Plz = the number of fans who strongly believe the coach played a role patafta, ljubo and zadkovich leaving.

[Grimario]

Actually, does anyone know the ground number we need to break even on game days?

Surely that's kind of irrelevant if 10,000 of them are paid members in the first place?

[pv4]

Oh, and the next "we need your support" plea from the club needs to actually be "we can't thank you enough for your level of support so far, it's been far above any leel we actually deserve" some sort of acknowledgement that they've been a showr of shit and re damn lucky so many are still sticking by them.

I think we have two away games, then a Friday night home game v Roar followed by a Saturday home game v WSW. Expect these articles, probably in this order, over the next month:
- The club is 100% behind Phil Stubbins and the team.
- Mark Birighitti has been granted leave to pursue a trial in Europe, the club will make no further comment at this stage.
- The rumours of [_____] requesting a contract termination are not true, and the club will make no further comment.
- Jets players today spent time at a nursing home - photos attached.
- Mark Birighitti has departed the Jets for a Serie C side. The transfer fee was undisclosed. The club wish him all the best.
- The club have full support for Ben Kennedy, and his #2 backup John Solari. Some youth kid is now our number 3, and some NPL kid is the backup youth keeper now.
- Player [______] from earlier has been granted a mutual termination of his contract. The club will make no further comment.
- THE GAME OF THE SEASON IS HERE - WSW AT HOME. GET BEHIND THE TEAM AS WE CHEER OUR BOYS TO VICTORY. There is also a game on this upcoming Friday night vs Brisbane.
- Jets manager Phil Stubbins says transfer targets are in discussion stages, and we should see a new signing in the coming days.
- James Virgili, Sam Gallaway and Ben Kennedy all sign new deals to keep them at the Jets until the end of the 16/17 season. The club is proud to have such talented, dedicated locals in the squad.
- Jets coach Phil Stubbins says the club is not disappointed having missed out on all their transfer targets, and that he is comfortable and proud of the squad he has already.

[plague]

I think we have two away games, then a Friday night home game v Roar followed by a Saturday home game v WSW. Expect these articles, probably in this order, over the next month:
- The club is 100% behind Phil Stubbins and the team.
- Mark Birighitti has been granted leave to pursue a trial in Europe, the club will make no further comment at this stage.
- The rumours of [_____] requesting a contract termination are not true, and the club will make no further comment.
- Jets players today spent time at a nursing home - photos attached.
- Mark Birighitti has departed the Jets for a Serie C side. The transfer fee was undisclosed. The club wish him all the best.
- The club have full support for Ben Kennedy, and his #2 backup John Solari. Some youth kid is now our number 3, and some NPL kid is the backup youth keeper now.
- Player [______] from earlier has been granted a mutual termination of his contract. The club will make no further comment.
- THE GAME OF THE SEASON IS HERE - WSW AT HOME. GET BEHIND THE TEAM AS WE CHEER OUR BOYS TO VICTORY. There is also a game on this upcoming Friday night vs Brisbane.
- Jets manager Phil Stubbins says transfer targets are in discussion stages, and we should see a new signing in the coming days.
- James Virgili, Sam Gallaway and Ben Kennedy all sign new deals to keep them at the Jets until the end of the 16/17 season. The club is proud to have such talented, dedicated locals in the squad.
- Jets coach Phil Stubbins says the club is not disappointed having missed out on all their transfer targets, and that he is comfortable and proud of the squad he has already.

No mention of paddle steamers or Venables?

[Thomas477]

Surely that's kind of irrelevant if 10,000 of them are paid members in the first place?

Not necessarily. Between them, the membership revenue and gameday revenue (food and tickets) should cover the costs of hiring the stadium. If they're not, then either the membership revenue needs to be increased, or the tickets need to be. Wouldn't be popular, but the club needs to start to break even. I'm sure people wouldn't mind a reasonable increase if it meant the team was able to recruit, and thus perform, better.

[Hunter403]

I think we have two away games, then a Friday night home game v Roar followed by a Saturday home game v WSW. Expect these articles, probably in this order, over the next month:
- The club is 100% behind Phil Stubbins and the team.
- Mark Birighitti has been granted leave to pursue a trial in Europe, the club will make no further comment at this stage.
- The rumours of [_____] requesting a contract termination are not true, and the club will make no further comment.
- Jets players today spent time at a nursing home - photos attached.
- Mark Birighitti has departed the Jets for a Serie C side. The transfer fee was undisclosed. The club wish him all the best.
- The club have full support for Ben Kennedy, and his #2 backup John Solari. Some youth kid is now our number 3, and some NPL kid is the backup youth keeper now.
- Player [______] from earlier has been granted a mutual termination of his contract. The club will make no further comment.
- THE GAME OF THE SEASON IS HERE - WSW AT HOME. GET BEHIND THE TEAM AS WE CHEER OUR BOYS TO VICTORY. There is also a game on this upcoming Friday night vs Brisbane.
- Jets manager Phil Stubbins says transfer targets are in discussion stages, and we should see a new signing in the coming days.
- James Virgili, Sam Gallaway and Ben Kennedy all sign new deals to keep them at the Jets until the end of the 16/17 season. The club is proud to have such talented, dedicated locals in the squad.
- Jets coach Phil Stubbins says the club is not disappointed having missed out on all their transfer targets, and that he is comfortable and proud of the squad he has already.

Love it!

[lquiquer]

I think we have two away games, then a Friday night home game v Roar followed by a Saturday home game v WSW. Expect these articles, probably in this order, over the next month:
- The club is 100% behind Phil Stubbins and the team.
- Mark Birighitti has been granted leave to pursue a trial in Europe, the club will make no further comment at this stage.
- The rumours of [_____] requesting a contract termination are not true, and the club will make no further comment.
- Jets players today spent time at a nursing home - photos attached.
- Mark Birighitti has departed the Jets for a Serie C side. The transfer fee was undisclosed. The club wish him all the best.
- The club have full support for Ben Kennedy, and his #2 backup John Solari. Some youth kid is now our number 3, and some NPL kid is the backup youth keeper now.
- Player [______] from earlier has been granted a mutual termination of his contract. The club will make no further comment.
- THE GAME OF THE SEASON IS HERE - WSW AT HOME. GET BEHIND THE TEAM AS WE CHEER OUR BOYS TO VICTORY. There is also a game on this upcoming Friday night vs Brisbane.
- Jets manager Phil Stubbins says transfer targets are in discussion stages, and we should see a new signing in the coming days.
- James Virgili, Sam Gallaway and Ben Kennedy all sign new deals to keep them at the Jets until the end of the 16/17 season. The club is proud to have such talented, dedicated locals in the squad.
- Jets coach Phil Stubbins says the club is not disappointed having missed out on all their transfer targets, and that he is comfortable and proud of the squad he has already.

But first the club will announce a full mid year review...... Oh wait: @NewcastleJetsFC: Newcastle Jets to conduct mid-season review http://t.co/q0HQkWyjRf #NTUA..... Just happened!!!

[Thomas477]

Wonder who's going to be the fool who suggests that Middleby should resign? There's no accountability for Robbie. All he has to do is say yep, I'm happy with my performance and he's safe.

Joke of a club.

[MFKS]

Biggest issue to me stems with our ownership model

The FFA have been an abject failure on this front.

The best model for all clubs is a ownership base with a variety of owners. None of this one rich bloke paying all the bills shit. It is a recipe for disaster. You only need the owner like ours to lose interest and the club is up shit creek. Seriously who in their right mind would want to take over a club in our position losing 1-2million a year??

A large part of the issue is the ridiculous level of costs to run a club in this country. The PFA have been ****ing the clubs over for years with their absurd wage demands. They are absurd cause the revenue isn't there to justify it

Our town has always been handicapped by ownership issues over shadowing the club. Until we can get this fixed and fixed permanently we are perennially ****ed


The FFA have constantly sat on their arse and done **** all to rectify this. Every club in the league bar victory has had ownership issues at some stage yet they keep plugging along hoping it will be right one day. What is even worse is they have bent over backwards to help Adelaide Roar Perth yet the two clubs most in need Newy and Gypos being from regional areas with less opportunities to the big city teams have been left high and dry.

Take our position they are the dumb ****s who inflicted Tinker on us and in doing so screwed him with the licence fee issue upsetting him in the process. In light of him finally wanting to pull the pin the useless ****s are still not honouring their debt to us fans and coming to the party to help us out and rectify their prior mistake.

We can sign all the best players we want sign the best coaches in the world get competent administrators but we are going nowhere until we get a stable ownership base

How do we get this well for a start we get 5-6 owners splitting the $1-2 million year loss for a start. One of these owners must be a fans co op of sorts as this is the one group who will never desert the club

Then from their employ the correct people to reduce the **** out of the 1-2million loss. Until this loss issue is erased for a club in our position the ownership issue will always be ongoing.

To achieve this the FFA need to inform the parasites of the PFA the next TV deal is not a payday for their over paid hacks they represent and is to properly fund the sustainability of all HAL clubs