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Thread: The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

  1. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawk View Post
    lol, no wonder the jets are fkd. The leftard mentality on here still making lgbti the major issue which a flick of a pen could fix btw.

    NRA, guns, employment, poverty, organised crime, DV, effective world leadership just might need an intiatial overhaul but what would I know. Ill just get the striped paint im sure your brushes are ready.
    This is the interesting thing about the reality Trump tried to portray in America - America is safer than it's ever been. Crime rates are at historical lows. What is he talking about? What does all the "Make America Safe Again" mean? When Obama was campaigning for his second term, Romney said that he could bring unemployment below 6% if he won...and that was considered a huge promise. Guess what? Obama brought it down to 4.9%.

    This dystopic vision that Trump painted of America is far from reality - America is as great as its ever been.

    The emotional right-wingers of the world don't like that though, because they need people to vote out of fear rather than based in fact and logic.

  2. #2502
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve136 View Post
    This dystopic vision that Trump painted of America is far from reality - America is as great as its ever been.
    Couple of points on this:
    1. You are correct, the American economy, under the usual popular metrics is ticking along ok, and Obama should be praised for that. But the argument is he 'spent' his way out of it with someone elses money and has no plan to reduce the debt that he incurred along the way.
    Amazingly, through the campaign Obama didnt get enough credit for his handling of the economy, and neither Trump nor Clinton ever really focused on specific economic plans. To be fair though the question wasn't really asked of them and the public didnt 'seem' to make it an issue either. Everyone had their heads in the sands and were all cool cool with it.

    2. Trump wants American business to shift manufacturing plants from Mexico back to America (he called out the auto industry mostly). The idea seems to be that if the US Govt is going to subsidise these industries then they will need to give something back. I think thats a pretty noble way of doing it. It also then puts pressure on Mexico and maybe it brings them to the table about their involvement in illegal immigration (the whole 'wall' deal). His mindset (and most business people) is that "if im paying for it, i want something back". Career pollies have no problem spending everyone elses money, at least Trump puts a 'value' on Government help.

    3. One thing Americans are still angry about is the after effects of the GFC. Back then Bush and Obama used taxpayers money to bail out all these reckless banks but they never ever held anyone from these organisations accountable for their actions. In fact, it was widely reported that they used the bailout money to give themselves bonuses and absolutely took the piss.
    Americans put that squarely on Obama and the way Trump linked in Hillary to all of that behaviour was a brilliant tactic. It was greed and corruption at its absolute worse, and the politicians stood around and let it happen. Average Joe can't fathom it, and i think it made a real impact with voters.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  3. #2503
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    One more point on Trump.
    Trump is not a creation of pissed off rednecks, or white america, or drunken frat boys.
    Trump was created BY America. Trump is about as American as it gets. He is the poster boy for the land of opportunity. His business acumen (whatever you think of it) was governed by the rules of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama. He is popular because Western society lauds people like him. He's a Kardashian, he's a rock star, he's a movie star. He's not a real person, but he is continually held up as what America is all about.

    Where were the academics, the professors, the thinkers and the leaders during this campaign? No one cared what they thought. We cared what LeBron thought, or Springsteen, or Beyonce. Why? Because they are popular and somehow society holds them up as arbiters of taste and decency. Why the hell is anyone out there caring what Jay-Z thinks of Trumps view of women? Well apparently lots of people do, and i think thats pretty sad.

    After the election one of the most spoken about reactions was Miley Cyrus crying into her phone. Miley freaking Cyrus is now our go-to political commentator?America man, thats what made Trump.

    Im not even kidding when i say that the Kanye West 2020 campaign has a really frigging good shot of getting up.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  4. #2504
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    One more point on Trump.
    Trump is not a creation of pissed off rednecks, or white america, or drunken frat boys.
    Trump was created BY America. Trump is about as American as it gets. He is the poster boy for the land of opportunity. His business acumen (whatever you think of it) was governed by the rules of Reagan, Clinton, Bush and Obama. He is popular because Western society lauds people like him. He's a Kardashian, he's a rock star, he's a movie star. He's not a real person, but he is continually held up as what America is all about.

    Where were the academics, the professors, the thinkers and the leaders during this campaign? No one cared what they thought. We cared what LeBron thought, or Springsteen, or Beyonce. Why? Because they are popular and somehow society holds them up as arbiters of taste and decency. Why the hell is anyone out there caring what Jay-Z thinks of Trumps view of women? Well apparently lots of people do, and i think thats pretty sad.

    After the election one of the most spoken about reactions was Miley Cyrus crying into her phone. Miley freaking Cyrus is now our go-to political commentator?America man, thats what made Trump.

    Im not even kidding when i say that the Kanye West 2020 campaign has a really frigging good shot of getting up.
    It's pretty funny though isn't it.

    All you need to do is be born into a rich family and take over the family business when your parents no longer want to run it.
    I can't understand why all Americans don't just take over their parents corporations and continue making billions.

    The so called American Dream is just that - a dream. The reality is that the number of rags to riches stories are so few that winning the lottery is more likely for most people.
    I mean at the very least you get a lottery winner every week in every state, throughout the globe. We'd be lucky to see a rags to riches story at anywhere near that rate - not too mention those who have lost everything chasing the impossible dream.

    You only need to see how many arse clowns have a Facebook account to know just how ridiculously doomed the planet has become.

    I'm just glad Adolf Hitler isn't around today because give that Khunt a facebook account and he'd find enough followers to rule the world.

  5. #2505
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    frat boys lol. The republicans were voted in by women as well, terrible news. They really didnt want Trump but he is the current leader of the party they wanted in power.

    Might be soon to be impeached so Pence can lead

  6. #2506
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    Couple of points on this:
    1. You are correct, the American economy, under the usual popular metrics is ticking along ok, and Obama should be praised for that. But the argument is he 'spent' his way out of it with someone elses money and has no plan to reduce the debt that he incurred along the way.
    Amazingly, through the campaign Obama didnt get enough credit for his handling of the economy, and neither Trump nor Clinton ever really focused on specific economic plans. To be fair though the question wasn't really asked of them and the public didnt 'seem' to make it an issue either. Everyone had their heads in the sands and were all cool cool with it.

    2. Trump wants American business to shift manufacturing plants from Mexico back to America (he called out the auto industry mostly). The idea seems to be that if the US Govt is going to subsidise these industries then they will need to give something back. I think thats a pretty noble way of doing it. It also then puts pressure on Mexico and maybe it brings them to the table about their involvement in illegal immigration (the whole 'wall' deal). His mindset (and most business people) is that "if im paying for it, i want something back". Career pollies have no problem spending everyone elses money, at least Trump puts a 'value' on Government help.

    3. One thing Americans are still angry about is the after effects of the GFC. Back then Bush and Obama used taxpayers money to bail out all these reckless banks but they never ever held anyone from these organisations accountable for their actions. In fact, it was widely reported that they used the bailout money to give themselves bonuses and absolutely took the piss.
    Americans put that squarely on Obama and the way Trump linked in Hillary to all of that behaviour was a brilliant tactic. It was greed and corruption at its absolute worse, and the politicians stood around and let it happen. Average Joe can't fathom it, and i think it made a real impact with voters.
    1. Wrong. Tax payers do not fund a cent of government spending. it's not been that way since Nixon closed the discount window in 1971.
    2. Yes. Fender the guitar manufacturer are a prime example.
    3. Yes and no. Tax payers didn't fund a thing - but as you imply it's the idea that they think they have which causes all the problems. However, those very same people that benefited from the collapse are also Trumps backers - so bit of a catch 22 really. Mind you this shit's been happening since 1971 but is slowly starting to change as people are waking up - though I say again very slowly.

    It's almost impossible to convince peopple that taxes don't / can't fund government spending - but once people do start to realise, the days of the leisure classes will well and truly be numbered. Unfortunately I won't see it in my life time unless I live to be 100 or more.

    Then you see a video like this and realise that we can all be better people it's just that the puppet masters have us chasing rainbows and material wealth rather than looking at whats important.

    Last edited by The Dunster; 12-11-2016 at 02:13 PM.

  7. #2507
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    Interesting view from someone on the left if you haven't seen it before.



    I like the crux of what he is saying though some would be offended.

  8. #2508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetmaster View Post
    Interesting view from someone on the left if you haven't seen it before.



    I like the crux of what he is saying though some would be offended.
    Brilliant video - and 100% correct.

  9. #2509
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    i think this is the video that explains it a bit better
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  10. #2510
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dunster View Post

    Then you see a video like this and realise that we can all be better people it's just that the puppet masters have us chasing rainbows and material wealth rather than looking at whats important.

    Yeah well i just went out today and brought a dope ass TV with money i earned from working and im so excited im crying its an awesome tv.
    also, Plague Jnr and I (along with Mrs Plague) eat dinner together at least 3 times a week (work commitments prevent it being more).
    I asked him the question that was posed in your video and he replied "Tim Cahill and Justin Bieber".
    I can only assume this is because Timmy and the Beebs wouldn't make the little bugger do his homework.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  11. #2511
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    Yeah well i just went out today and brought a dope ass TV with money i earned from working and im so excited im crying its an awesome tv.
    also, Plague Jnr and I (along with Mrs Plague) eat dinner together at least 3 times a week (work commitments prevent it being more).
    I asked him the question that was posed in your video and he replied "Tim Cahill and Justin Bieber".
    I can only assume this is because Timmy and the Beebs wouldn't make the little bugger do his homework.
    LG OLED I hope ?

    And I'm disappointed Jnr didn't say Griffo.

  12. #2512
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dunster View Post
    LG OLED I hope ?

    And I'm disappointed Jnr didn't say Griffo.
    Good guess on the TV. It's a life changer.

    Even Plague Jnr realises he isn't worthy of getting a seat at Griffs table.

  13. #2513
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    USA v Mexico game today


  14. #2514
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    Good guess on the TV. It's a life changer.
    My Mrs thinks that anyone who doesn't own a 65" 4k OLED TV is a Communist.

    We bought ours back in March 2016. It still amazes me how good shows look on it. [Especially 4k Netflix].

  15. #2515
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    Trump picks Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff. Because nothing will "drain the swamp" and stick it to establishment politics like the Chairman of the RNC

  16. #2516
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve136 View Post
    Trump picks Reince Priebus as Chief of Staff. Because nothing will "drain the swamp" and stick it to establishment politics like the Chairman of the RNC
    or its the theory behind cyber security companies employing hackers to test their software.

    if anyone is gonna know where all the bodies are buried, its gonna be the guy ordering the executions.

    besides, he might just drain the Democrat side first........
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  17. #2517
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    Quote Originally Posted by plague View Post
    or its the theory behind cyber security companies employing hackers to test their software.

    if anyone is gonna know where all the bodies are buried, its gonna be the guy ordering the executions.

    besides, he might just drain the Democrat side first........
    Good point, although I doubt it. It signals to me that Trump is taking a more conventional, conservative path - Priebus is best pals with Paul Ryan too. Perhaps draining the swamp and filling it with different swamp water?

    His supporters are blowing up right now - their "straight talker" duped them about being anti-establishment and has signalled a backdown on Obamacare already. Personally, I think these developments might be good things for the future of the country.

  18. #2518
    infant member plague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve136 View Post
    Good point, although I doubt it. It signals to me that Trump is taking a more conventional, conservative path - Priebus is best pals with Paul Ryan too. Perhaps draining the swamp and filling it with different swamp water?

    His supporters are blowing up right now - their "straight talker" duped them about being anti-establishment and has signalled a backdown on Obamacare already. Personally, I think these developments might be good things for the future of the country.
    couldn't agree with this post more.

    the fact that all the senior republicans are now kissing his ass (the Bush's, Kasich, Romney) means they are all shitting themselves. If he's smart he'll use it as leverage to get some changes, but yeah he's going to have to give some ground as well. Not a bad thing that he's going to be measured about stuff.

    Im still begging for chaos though.
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    And I don't argue with FR. The bloke is a legend and deserves great praise for his contributions to football in the Hunter.
    He is also the second best poster on the entire Foz behind you
    Quote Originally Posted by parksey View Post
    sometimes there's more to life than just winning
    Quote Originally Posted by ForeverRed View Post
    What a deadset ****ing coward **** you are
    Quote Originally Posted by MFKS View Post
    Seems like I am WRONG

  19. #2519
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dunster View Post
    1. Wrong. Tax payers do not fund a cent of government spending. it's not been that way since Nixon closed the discount window in 1971.
    Quick google brought me to this
    https://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-a...paying-for-it/

    "The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of Australian Government Bonds. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).

    The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt."

    Is this basically what you're saying with government spending and tax? If so, where does the tax money go to, and a possibly related question; how is the spending that doesn't create revenue generating assets funded? Or is the point that if you use a big enough frame of reference that all of their spending will create revenue some way or another

  20. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macca View Post
    Quick google brought me to this
    https://nbnmyths.wordpress.com/how-a...paying-for-it/

    "The $27.5bn Government component of the NBN is funded by debt, through the issuing of Australian Government Bonds. That is, the Federal Government offers our AAA-rated bonds to investors, at an interest rate of about 4% (depending on the term).

    The NBN however, will provide a return of about 7%. This means that (once the network is operational), the NBN will begin repaying those bonds at a higher rate than what Government is paying on the debt. By 2034, the entire Government investment (including the interest) will have been repaid by the users of the network, leaving the Government owning a valuable asset (the NBN network) and no associated debt."

    Is this basically what you're saying with government spending and tax? If so, where does the tax money go to, and a possibly related question; how is the spending that doesn't create revenue generating assets funded? Or is the point that if you use a big enough frame of reference that all of their spending will create revenue some way or another
    When you pay your taxes. One account is debited and other is credited. And the money is then destroyed.
    There is no tin shed in Canberra full of money. The so called Future Fund - is a very sick joke upon the general public that serves no purpose other than to line the pockets of bond traders and the like [but that's another story].

    With respect to government bonds. They are only a debt instrument in undergraduate economics text books. Everywhere else they are a tool to maintain the Reserve banks interest rate target.
    The real purpose of a government bond [and I'll include repos and so on as well] is to reduce the liquidity of the exchange settlement accounts of member banks [the ones we use] with the RBA.
    Therefore, rather than a debt instrument a bond is a tool used to maintain a positive interest rate. [there are lots of interest rates - I'll make it simple and assume one]
    When governments spend the exchange settlement accounts become more liquid as money / deposits increase.
    That places downward pressure on the interest rate because supply is greater than demand.
    To restore their target rate of interest the RBA will want to reduce liquidity and they do this by removing funds from the exchange settlement accounts.
    To do this they offer the banks with excess balances and interest bearing alternative to money -namely a bond.
    The banks accept this because they get a better return.
    money from the banks exchange settlement account is exchanged for a bond.
    RBA maintains it's target interest rate, banks get a certain return - and everyone involved is happy.

    In times of war when governments go mental spending money they don't sell bonds to fund spending. They sell them to mop up the excess reserves in the banking system to stop the cash rate from hitting 0%

    With respect to the future value of the NBN I don't think anyone would be able to determine it's value by 2034 other than by accounting methods which don't take into account technological change and so on.

    Without going in to too much detail a government like Australia has no budget constraints in terms of its own money - Because - it is the monopoly issuer of $AUS, and it makes $AUS the only acceptable method of payment for Australians to extinguish their tax liabilities.

    Hence, the Australian Government cannot have debt in terms of it's own money. in fact they can buy any good or service that is available in Australian Dollars. The only limit to their spending in Australian dollars are environmental or when the economy reaches full capacity [ and that's never ever going to happen].

    The only reason government would choose to fund a project by a private partnership would be to line the pockets of their corporate bond trading mates.
    And the punchline is that the only way the private sector can hold the excess balances required to make the purchase in the first place is if the government previously deficit spent the money into their accounts.
    It's the only way because all transactions between private sector agents must always sum to zero because debits = credits.
    Hence if government always spent less than they collected in revenues then the non-government sector would in aggregate have no savings.

    I'm sure this will be misread by many and it's only a simplification but hopefully it might give a general idea.
    Last edited by The Dunster; 14-11-2016 at 04:48 PM.

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