The Politics/Religion/Conspiracies Deathmatch Thread

[pv4]

lengthening the term of government might help allieviate so much of the short sighted nature of canberra,

Disagree tbh. Every time I hear a labour lover talk to me about how good labour is and how "evil" liberal is - they always blame ANYTHING that goes wrong on a "hung parliament". What that means, I still don't fully understand (nor want to). They've been in for 6 years, and can't even take the blame for things like how ridiculously poor they've managed policies like their mining tax that has cost more than it was worth (and they can blame the failure of the mining tax of companies whittling it down to barely a remnant of its original intent all they want - the labour government epically failed and the only thing it's actually done is piss of one of the most major industries of Australia).

IMO if we want to alleviate the short sighted nature of canberra, we need liberal in. Labour have proved with this Rudd-Gillard-Rudd thing that they are hugely indecisive and inconsistent - we need stayers to lead us IMO

[la bazzle]

Thats a very good question.

The reason I beleive that the churches should have a say in gay marriage is because while growing up marriage was always said to be a ceremony performed by the church. This could be just my up bringing but ive always considered a wedding to be religious and/or spiritual.

Even if im wrong on this matter it should never be left in the hands of politicians. especially those that are only trying to gain votes to win an election.

Sure the churches can have a say, they can have a say in who they marry. But why should they be able to make decisions about people getting married outside of their own organisation? I'm not saying its right that politicians should make this decision, but if theres one group who shouldn't be making the decision its a group following directions from a book written from translations of scrolls that were copies of letters written 2000 years ago. My whole problem isn't even gay marriage, it doesn't effect me personally, but it's the point that religious views and ideas should have no impact on any laws and legislations in this country. If we want to go down that road we should start off by banning the consumption of prawns and making sure no one is mixing their wools and linen

[pv4]

if churches dont support gay marriage, they dont have to perform the ceremony.

FWIW I'm very for gay marriage. I know a lot of people who have been married who DO NOT deserve to as much as gay couples I know.

There are a fair few churches/priests/religions who wouldn't mind if gays can be married but don't feel it appropriate or would refuse to do it in their church - and the main issue they have with legalising gay marriage is they'll be seen as discriminating (judgment is a sin) for turning away gays who want to be married and the priests don't want to do it due to principle of themselves or the church. So religious people I know are either (1) bible says no, gays are bad (2) gays should be allowed to marry (3) doesn't bother me, but I don't think our church would allow it and I don't want to be seen as a bad guy for saying no.

[GazFish35]

Sir Humphrey would have a good laugh at politicians running the country Mr Fish

my bad

should have just quoted my old man "doesnt matter who you vote for, you always get a politician"

[GazFish35]

Disagree tbh. Every time I hear a labour lover talk to me about how good labour is and how "evil" liberal is - they always blame ANYTHING that goes wrong on a "hung parliament". What that means, I still don't fully understand (nor want to). They've been in for 6 years, and can't even take the blame for things like how ridiculously poor they've managed policies like their mining tax that has cost more than it was worth (and they can blame the failure of the mining tax of companies whittling it down to barely a remnant of its original intent all they want - the labour government epically failed and the only thing it's actually done is piss of one of the most major industries of Australia).

IMO if we want to alleviate the short sighted nature of canberra, we need liberal in. Labour have proved with this Rudd-Gillard-Rudd thing that they are hugely indecisive and inconsistent - we need stayers to lead us IMO

hard to respond to your points if you dont understand the current stae of the "hung parliament".
it essentially wouldnt have mattered who was in charge the past three years have been a stalemate, libs woul have achevded very little too if the independants had sided with them, having said that, if you live in oakeshot country you might argue that a lot has happened in this term.

and dismissing longer terms in office based on the last 6 yrs is flawed also.
Labour haven't had six years straight, they've had two lots of three, cut in half by an election that distracts parliament from actually governing
the 3 yr term means parties spend 2 years focussed on trying to make changes and 1 yr trying to get re-ellected. longer terms like the 5yrs in the US might mean some more serious debate and future long term planning might be more forthcoming. it might also mean parties in opposition might be more willing to work through issues and see legislataion passed rather than just holding shit up till the next election. Might also eliviate some of the "we inherited the problem" excuses both side always trot out.

[pv4]

So the current system is flawed, in that no one can get anything done because of the state of parliament, and we want to increase the time the nothing-getting-done parliament (either lib or labour) is in? If anything, this shows how the American system in general is better as opposed to a party-preferred system. How many people do you know "won't vote for Abbott because he's creepy" or "won't vote for Kevin because he's a numpty without notes", yet can't even tell you the name of their local members (aka who you actually vote for)?

FWIW I see merit in some of the things you're saying about extending parliament tenure. But also I see it as a giraffe stuck in quicksand - they've got a shitload of time to regret some of their life decisions. A long tenure would be great if you're pro-current-leader, and would be hell if you weren't. It's going to piss of half the population no matter what (half is obviously a loose figure).

[GazFish35]

the current hung parliament situtaion isnt a product of the length of a term. its a product of what we all voted for three years ago. I agree if temrs were longer and the sitauation repated than we'd have a hung aprliament for longer.... though the GG might send us back to the polls again.... or we might have voted differently kbnowin we are voting someone in for longer.... or the diffeerences in the two major parties might be clearer.

i just cant stand the current shitfight we go through every three years, it watses time and makes the time actually in parliament less productive as so many decisions are focussed on popularist views to keep power at the next election instead of allowing some real leaderships, some tough decions to be made and real changes to occur to make th eplace a better joint.


back to the real issues though

Abbott - **** me. "sex appeal" how dumb is the bloke, if he thought sex appeal was one of the first three virtues of a politician that he shold be spruiking, why the hell is he running? ugliest face in canberra - he looks like Roald Dahl's BFG. And why the hell was Julia Bishop in Canberra so long?

[true waterboy]

I love the look of his daughter in the vision the moment he said sex appeal. you could tell he meant it as a joke but surely hes smart enough to realise politicians cant get away with jokes in this politically correct time we live in.

the longer this election goes for the more its turning into a joke.

[furns]

american system vs aussie system as expained by The Daily Show

[plague]

Good lord. If anyone is outraged over Abbotts sex appeal comment, Rudds notes or Rudds kid smoking a cigar then you have way more issues than who is going to be leader of your country.

[plague]

Also big ups to the Auto Workers union for being sensible in their new workplace arrangement.
All sides of pollies now need to come in and work out a way to make the car industry more viable.
This is how unions should operate and not enough kudos was given to them.

[pv4]

I'm a boilermaker by trade

In a way mineworkers have shot themselves in the foot. By chasing the high wages, they have effectively shut themselves out of the traditional manufacturing industry. Really is the lack of jobs for your mates really because there is no work or because they do not wish to work for 17-20 bucks an away in a factory?

Tbth it's a bit of both. Some have "priced themselves out" while others just legit can't find jobs - I know boilies struggling to find market-rate-hourly-prices anywhere near home (within 2 hours).

[The Dunster]

Tbth it's a bit of both. Some have "priced themselves out" while others just legit can't find jobs - I know boilies struggling to find market-rate-hourly-prices anywhere near home (within 2 hours).

The lack of jobs is due to insufficient aggregate demand. Wage rates have absolutely nothing to do with it. There is no market clearing wage that would guarentee full employment - and there certainly isn't one in a nation that has chronic current account deficits and governments that are unwilling to run budgetary positions compatible with full employment.

Unemployment is an exogenous variable directly linked to aggregate demand. If the private sector wishes to save then the government secotor must by definition run a deficit to make up the gap between the level of spending compatible with full employment and the actual level of spending.

The only exception to this is when the external account is in surplus. Unfortunately, in Australia the trade balance is dwarfed by the net income account [payments to overseas owners] which produces a Current Account Deficit.

Boring as bat shit. Yes. But it's the simplest explaination I can give.

[Skirt Boy]

Tbth it's a bit of both. Some have "priced themselves out" while others just legit can't find jobs - I know boilies struggling to find market-rate-hourly-prices anywhere near home (within 2 hours).

Herein lies another problem. The barriers to entry into employment are quite high. I remember when I first got my trade papers it was relatively straight forward to get a job pretty much anywhere simply because I was a trady. Now you need green cards, white cards, OH&S inductions, site inductions, and other tickets for certain machinery. Whilst I can understand the safety aspect of this, the cost is usually born by the employees instead of companies themselves providing the training as what used to happy and is one of the reasons why I made sure that I could do other work in addition to being a tradesman because you never know when a certain occupation has more workers then available then whats actually in demand.

Restricting yourself to one type of profession is a little silly in my view.

[militiamon]

Liberal candidate Kevin Baker quits race for Charlton over lewd website

The Liberal candidate for the safe Labor seat of Charlton, near Newcastle, has quit over an inappropriate website he ran.

Kevin Baker set up an online forum for car enthusiasts several years ago and has now apologised for making inappropriate comments on it.

Mr Baker says he shut down the site because he had failed to moderate it properly and some users added inappropriate content.

He has now announced he has quit the race for the seat of Charlton, although his name will stay on the ballot paper.

"Today I have advised the NSW state director of the Liberal Party that I will not be running as the Liberal candidate for Charlton at the federal election," he said in a brief statement released this afternoon.

"I understand that while my name will still appear on the ballot paper, my campaign is over.

"I deeply regret the posts made on my website and decided that it was not appropriate to continue as the Party's candidate."

The New South Wales Liberal Party says it has accepted his resignation and therefore will not be represented in the seat at this election.

Earlier Finance Minister Penny Wong called on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to disendorse Mr Baker over the website, which included jokes about domestic violence and the Pope being a paedophile.

"He can take a leaf out of his mentor's book, because John Howard faced a similar situation in 1996 with Pauline Hanson and he took action - disendorsed her and made clear that she would never sit in the Coalition party room," she said.

Mr Abbott had resisted sacking Mr Baker.

"He's done the wrong thing. He's pulled down the site. He has apologised," Mr Abbott said earlier today.

Charlton, held by departing Climate Change, Industry and Innovation Minister Greg Combet, is considered a very safe Labor seat, held with a 12.7 per cent margin.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-2...36?section=nsw

Finance Minister Penny Wong has called on Opposition Leader Tony Abbott to disendorse a Liberal candidate who reportedly hosted a website which included jokes about domestic violence and the Pope being a paedophile.

Kevin Baker, who is contesting former minister Greg Combet's NSW seat of Charlton, was forced to shut down the personal website after it was revealed he had "posted hundreds of lewd jokes about women and had links to pornography", the Daily Telegraph has reported.

"Some of that banter, it has now been discovered, included jokes about the Pope being a paedophile, women having sex on pool tables and what Mr Baker himself calls 'Tit-banter'," the newspaper said.

A huge blow to crook's ambitions for being pre-selected in the 2016 election campagin.

[plague]

I think he walked the plank this arvo.
silly boy indeed. how can any aspiring Pollies think this shit wont get brought up?

[snake]

did anyone else receive in the mail a "how to vote" letter from uncle clive, with free Titanic II DVD?

[plague]

did anyone else receive in the mail a "how to vote" letter from uncle clive, with free Titanic II DVD?

I got something from the great man, but have so far kept it in the plastic. I want to be around family and friends when I open it.
Clive, always thinking of the people.

Where's VJ on this? Surely it's just Cons paddledteamer idea on steroids.
Lowy will rue the day he took Clives license away.

[My2BobsWorth]

I chucked it like most people, could end up being a collectors item

[plague]

Gotta say Abbott came out looking good in the people's forum debate tonight. Rudd went at him hard and the questions were mainly skewed against him but the fact he answered them made him look good.
I'd say Rudd wins slightly on points but overall it will make Abott look better.

Shouldn't have made the shut up comment though. Not appropriate.